One theme is pretty obvious; while the traveler/the light has been referred to as the Sky by ancient beings, it seems like the Darkness is the Sea. And the Neomuni see themselves as way finders
Not the sea, "The Deep". I think it's an important distinction. Sometimes one can dip in the sea and maintain your orientation. Like our gaurdians getting our feet wet with the powers of darkness being used for thr general good. but once you go deep down where the light is no longer visible it's easy to lose your way. It can get so dark you can't tell which way is up anymore.
I think the small circle to the right-hand side of the left mural is the formation of the distributary during the collapse. It sits right in the middle of the veil shape and has both dark and light branches reaching towards it with an "explosion" image. I imagine the awoken lore and the IX will have a pretty major impact on whatever's coming towards final shape
agreed I never would think it's anything else. Could just be a mural depicting that one cloud strider that wanted to see the stars but couldn't because of the thick atmosphere of Neptune.
Byf included, this is the best lore channel. No pandering, no false morality pleas, no bad takes about narrative delivery, just lore please keep being great if this is what you like to do man.
I know this is all speculation, the notes and detail you mention around "the guardian" in the mural, I feel, strongly point to Nezarec. Especially if that's the first collapse in the left mural, we know Nezarec lead the back fleet in the assault. Love your channel brother! And it can't be coincidence that there's 9 bodies in the middle mural right? This must be the Agents
Right Mural, Bottom Right section. Pretty sure that symbol for Guardian with a revolver and a "Dark" ghost could be the Drifter. The orb to his upper right could also be the mass he carries behind his ship.
If you go through the Cloud Strider lore, it talks about the Warlords, but if they had been observing Earth this whole time, then they would have been aware that things had changed. They even admitted to the fact that they had been waiting for the guardians to die out before going back to earth. If all of this is true, then they also knew that the last city was a safe haven for humanity and that the last remaining people were under attack by the Hive, the Fallen, the Cabel, the Vex and Taken. They also would have known about the Black fleet. Based on all of that, I don't think they ever intended to help Earth at all, and they were forced into it when the Shadow Legion arrived on Neptune.
The lore of Destiny is too big and has become unruly with contradictions. We can postulate on the developers intentions as far as the story is concerned, but I suspect these are merely plot holes resulting from the aforementioned muddled continuity and lore.
I'm surprised that Evaze didn't mention Nezarec's head being hyper prominent in the central of the 3 murals. It even almost looks like it includes his eye/eyes in the center. If it wasn't supposed to represent Nezy I would truly be shocked.
I agree with you here. Definitely Nezy in the left mural if that's the first collapse. We know Nezarec only remains as pieces and the depiction in the murals don't show a whole body. It's gotta be him.
Now what if that was Cayde when he was a mercenary before reset. It’s a stretch buut would be fun to see he’s involved somehow. I mean he rode with drifter for a bit so I won’t be surprised at this point.
I wonder if we’ll get more insight in the dungeon that comes out next season. 🤔 It’ll be cool to get more of the background on Neptune itself through it, the same way we got more insight into Calus’ train of thought as he pursued power through the Witness during Duality.
I see the murals as a Past-Present-Future motif (left to right) The left mural is the founding of Neomuna -- the Warlords of Earth after the collapse - and the FIRST cloudstrider appearing and protecting them. The middle Mural depicts what's happened right now. We got regular neomuni bunkard down in the ground--- guardians weilding light and dark helping to protect neomuna and the cloudstriders bove them, who are depicted as holding close the gates as it were. Also it's very clearly depicting Nezerac's head shape and eye(s) in the center. No idea who the faces on the left and right represent. A guardian? Perhaps Ashirmir? Maybe it's just solidifying Cloud striders and guardians working together. Finally the right mural: Nothing in that mural has happened yet as far as I can tell. The bottom portion could be depicting a new cloudstrider being born... interesting said cloudstrider is unique from the other depictions-- having specific features where as the other murals just have a basic design that's reused through out. But this nealing one is more effeminate and has ear-rings-- some sort of headpeace, a blade of sorts on their thigh. (which is uniquely bare skinned). Could also be Satiria? Maybe she gets a human/exo form? Obviously its our guardian on the right-- seeming to hold a gun. No idea who the face in the back might be... personal theory: It's the Vex Mind -- Aesop. He's only mentioned once in the warlock exotic Swarmer Pants. But it mentions him as a very peculiar vex mind that offered "safety" from the vex, in exchange for loyalty and subjugation, as their king of sorts. Upon refusing he alluded strongly their children would die--- and then when denied again he unleashed the vex and killed that generation of Neomuni children. He left saying "he'll return one day" -- so my prediction is Aesop is the face in the background. Trying to lord over the Neomuni again. But now he faces a guardian and a cloudstrider. The top portion I'm thinking is a time after the cloudstriders-- when the Neomuni all have to step up and work together for a brighter future. They all look up towards that future, hands held together.
i wouldnt be surprised when the final shape comes we look at the mural and hit ourselves that it was looking at us the entire time with the answers, have to admit i never noticed the other 2 either side of the main one in the mast room but it looks like past on the left with the collapse ( i always assumed the half half figure represented the witness or some paracausal being) the middle being the events of lightfall with the linking of the veil and the traveler. and the one on the right showing the lead up to the final shape with nimbus doing something to the veil to let us gain access to the portal at the traveler to get to the witness
For me the right mural is like a prophecy, where we can see Nimbus above the veil, kneeling and mourning while behind or slightly above them is the face of Rohan with the tombstones. And those stones could represent darkness(left) middle(cloudstrider) and light(right) deaths... which could point to the end of the light and dark saga??? Or a bigger sacrifice?
i wanna give my theory for the first one. The depicted figures on the side on the first one definitely are not guardians but its the witness. it could be a mural depicting the events of lightfall, the left ghost could be the radial mast (heavy reaching) while the one on the right is our ghost, both were used by the witness to try and link to the veil. the 2 cloud striders in the middle could represent rohan and the annoying one (forgot their name), the table of neomuni could be the ones we interact with and even the news broadcaster. the giant face on the right could actually be rohan (the gray part could be his beard just over done) or osiris (bit above his eyes could be about his mass knowledge on the darkness and the multiple blobbish person things representing his other figures in the curse of osiris), while the left could actually be the guardian depicted in a sinister light and since strand is a darkness ability, has things resembling the darkness (egregore looking stuff).
You know the saying “eyes are the windows to the soul” I’m looking at that mural and I’m trying to figure who’s eye are they depicting. Makes me think of it’s confirming the lady in white who’s inside the traveler. What I get is that since dark and light must exist, constantly shifting but maintaining balance, because it’s how time flows. I think there will be more deep diving and revelation from the Ishtar Collective because we’re seeing what’s in front of us but we’re aren’t seeing what’s in front us at the same time. The dark void of space lives with the vast stars in the universe. The traveler may not want to want to combine with the darkness as it understands that a life of what it has seen time and time again start over (maybe she’s develop a soft spot for her creations). When i star explodes, it happens at its core, in which it creates as much as it destroys. Idk I think I’ve found a rabbit hole. PS: My head cannon is that the witness during the explosion is ready and has a condom ready for some odd reason as he enters the “triangle”. Unless this whole thing is a euphemism for SA as we see how much of a temper the witness has when he’s “checked”.
honestly to me i felt like the mural on the left of the radial mast was more like the witness and traveler and how they're not so different or connected in some way via the ghosts. but you know thats just what i felt
I don’t think the witness is anywhere on here except maybe his fleet of darkness ships. I don’t think the witness represents the darkness, they just use it.
At 3:50 to 4:00 mark i have a theory about those nine figures in the center, those are The Nine, those who live beyond the ascendant plane or are of the veil, can never remember which part of their lore it is. They are the most mysterious of figures we hear about from their representative Xur.
I don’t think that’s a depiction of Guardians, but either Nezarec or Witness. I can def see it being Nezarec more than the Witness, but considering Witness can control ghosts I wouldn’t be shocked if he had one before lol
Am I crazy or does half skeletal guardian depiction at 3:33 kinda looks like the same idea behind the warlock RON raid armor. With the body split into to different sides, one armored and one more fleshy side, probably just a huge coincident.
The veil is a seed. It's creating a new universe. We're at the end of ours, that's how the witness has finally caught up. The traveler has no where else to go, no other protectors to count on
10:25 those red lights probably represent the Vex. In early concept art the biggest Vex machines (building sized ones or bigger) had lots of irregularly placed red eyes all over them
Well adding on to the Vex we have yet to see the soldiers of the vex. In beyond light the vex that we’ve been fighting are equivalent to farmers. The Wyverns are the first of the soldiers units of the vex. There’s still a bunch of Greek monsters they have yet to cover that we may see
6:31 I believe 2nd one is the Witness and the Traveler also I speculate that the Ghost that we have aren’t of Traveler intended…..I suspect the Witness and the Ghost are more connected then we was told….and suspect Ghost are Witness made.
Hey evaze like where your going with this but I wanted to ask about the vex portal will that have somthing to do with the final shape will we go through it or destroy it. I would like to see more cloudstriders though
Bare with me on this, but I think it's the nine. There can't be a coincidence that there are 9 characters on the bottom middle panel. What's crazier is there is 5 staying around a table and 4 that look like there transcending? The nine had 5 that wanted to learn and 4 that wanted to do other things. The nine lore on the wiki states this
Anyone else ever notice the gun on the right mural at the bottom? Could that be tied to the hand cannon we get next season with our Lightfall/Veil mission they told us about? Starting to think it'll be one of the founders of Neomuna's weapon, perhaps a guardian who ended up there in the early years.
Just a comment on the left mural with that figure "holding" the sides it looks like the staff/ artifact that is featured so prominently in the root of nightmares.
An hourglass is meant to be flipped when full. Perhaps it shows how Light and Dark switch back and forth in ascendancy. The witness wants to destroy the hourglass purging the universe of light and dark and ending the flower game, where our goal should be bringing balance turning the hourglass sideways as Asher shows us.
At 6:00 it sort of looks like the skeleton person has little arms and hands on the lower part of their body. Maybe it's 2 beings combined together (light and dark) maybe it's the witness and the traveler/gardener as one but is now split for some reason. maybe the ghost to the left of this being represents the darkness (since our ghost got taken over) and you can see the traveler to the right representing the light obviously. Also why is he called the witness? What did he witness?
I believe that was meant to refer to Elsie Bray (or at least that's how it seemed at the time) because the nine were speaking about individual people there as the drifter was mentioned as well
The mural on the right has a circle with the western hemisphere, it's very obvious and that leads me to believe all circles represent planets. 1 circle looks like it has the terraformed leaves.
I bet Viel is a device for time travel esp in multiple timelines. I also speculate what if the Witness and the traveller r the same just from different timelines. Want to get unity to attain final percausality and rule over all the time lines. The 9 might be something like watchers to guard over the timeline this might come ask for help later.
Evaze, your the one normally pointing out the lore stuff, 9 humans who might be the original founds.. Or could literally be THE NINE that keep coming up over and over again who control unknown space.... you know that nine?
I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THIS MURAL!!! I TRIED TO SEE AS MUCH AS I could but none of it made any sense to me. I didn't really know what I was looking at lmfao
I have a question about the cloudstriders life span: they live on Neptune, their entire existence is on Neptune, why would they still use an Earth year as their measurement of time? When they say their lifespan is 10 years are we just assuming 10 Earth years or is it about 1650 Earth years (the length of 10 years on Neptune)?
...to me the "guardians" might not be them...after looking at the second one (the left one) with the "guardian" on its own, dont it kinda look more like the witness than a guardian? especially with what looks like the black fleet and the traveler, as for the first one with the 2 "guardians" maybe they represent witness and some other being entirely, or maybe there the gardener and the winnower, but that's just another person's thought xD great vid keep them coming
Tinfoil time! [grab a coffee] It's a triptych; with one panel for Past, Present, and Future (which is now our present). Also, with the Hourglass shape calling to time, It may be worth noting what's outside the hourglass shape as being outside of time. On the left we see the creation of Neomuna, and the Cloudstrider that hid Neomuna, hiding it "outside of time" (on the right), while it pushed back both light and dark from finding it. On the left of this panel, iconograpy/patterns of the Pyramid ships can be seen. Darkness is paracausal and the realm of the non-physical, and so would naturally exist "outside of time" The Ghost wielder at the bottom may not actually be a warlord OR a guardian but some other"lightbearer". The ghost is unique as it has a black section, and the lightbearer is the only one with black "bones". The only lightbearer that loosely fit this thematic would be Savathun. But she "just" got her ghost, so that doesn't makes sense, timeline-wise (then again, lightbearers are paracausal, and Savathun was there before the collapse and it's hard to follow her cunning. The Triangles here are probably the Pyramid ships. Ignoring the ghost situation; This probably shows when Savathun hid the veil on Neomuna, which is the reason for it's advancement. I think there's a difference between the darkness that gives us Stasis and Strand... and the darkness of the Witness. I beleive the "bring the end of all things darkness" (or "evil" darkness) of the Witness is shown in black, and the "the other side of light is darkness" darkness (or "Yin" darkness) is shown in red. Savathun was shown to have been experimenting ripping out the light from lightbearers, maybe she did this to give herself a ghost during this time. Then something happened and she forgot, and then she got one "naturally". The vieil on Neptune and finding strand on neptune links the veil as a darkness artifact, which we all know. And while for some reason Pyramids have access to the Traveler directly, they didn't have access to the veil directly, which is shown here (The larger orb is the traveler as evidenced by the "scars" at the bottom) The middle at the bottom, shows how humanity has turned to Guardrians, and away from Warlords, since they are "lightless" the backdrop to them is dark. The warlords are lightbearers who use their power for darkness, so they have a mostly light backdrop with a "dark streak". Above it, almost as though there is a ceiling to separate them, We see the "CloudStrider Pair" who hold up and protect Neomuni. The middle circle might be the CloudArk, and not the veil. The bigger dark circle surrounding it is likely the Veil. From Neptune's perspective (ignoring planetary rotation) the Traveler would be closer by distance, or "bigger" (ignoring actual scale; since this is an artists rendition)The striders also look like they are "closing the door" to the veil. The face on the left is consistent with Guardians, who are paracausal and thus "outside time". While the face is still a skull, referencing that all Guardians are technically re-animated corpses, it looks much less aggressive than the smaller depictions. The face on the right could be a CloudStrider, but it doesn't appear to have the same augmentation pictography as the face on the right mural. A long-shot guess is that this is one of the agents of Darkness, probably the Witness, as all of the Disciples have a very distinctly alien appearance; while the Witness is relatively human-looking.... with a smokestack for hair. In the middle we see a column, which may just be a "support beam" to show how the CloudArk/Veil supports what looks like Humans. Humans who appear to be "underground" as the CloudStrider monuments sit on the surface. This probably references the current state of Neomuna's lockdown where the people are hidden away and not on the surface. On the right mural. The face on the right Mural looks incredibly like Rohan's face. As the prophetic panel, this likely foretells his sacrifice. It Also note that this is the only appearance of the Guardian with a weapon in these murals. The middle figure on the bottom is kneeling with the ghost between it and the gun. This is almost perfectly analogous to the final cut-scene. I think the fact that there is no black color on the ghost, while it is also not as "light" as the one in the middle mural, may point to the fact that it was "hijacked" and not an actual evil/corrupted ghost. Also the orb behind the Guardian looks like Earth (Americas), and, you see black tendrils reaching it (The Witness was able to "create the link"). The 3 Pillars could be a different version of the CloudStrider Monuments, or they could be a first look into the place where they are created (maybe when they are "born" they also emerege from monument-like structures). But there are 3 when they usually come in 2's. These could also be a representation of the city. From here remember, this is a prophetic murial. At the top we see 4 CloudStriders (who have red hair) and 3 half-circles of light, with a more CloudStrider Murals behind. Guardians work in 3's and CloudStriders work in 2s. I don't know why there are 4, but if we're facing the end of the universe, it makes sense that they'd bring in more than normal. Also note that the 3 orbs can also be moved to fit between the 4. The interesting part is the 4 "Warlord style" ghosts on the left side of the mural on the right. They are "outside time" and haven't shown up yet in-game/lore. With the veil connected, we may see a change to the "natural order" of things (or what we thought was natural). On the right side, outside of time, there is a very abstract, "incoherent" mashup of suff. I've got nothing for that part.
The murals probably represent the creation of neomuna.. the cloudstriders.. the creation of the cloudstriders & probably what they knew about earth. The one by the radial mast though... kinda reminds me of the last supper painting.
Maybe the scary being is the Witness and the mural prophesy how they would control our ghost (and maybe the connection between our ghost and the darkness)? Idk, the Witness was my first thought when seeing that image. A shame how we can't access this area while on patrol. Seems like a wasted effort from Bungie
I have been commenting on this mural in everyone’s videos since Lightfall dropped; Thank You for finally doing a video on it. So in the first mural, the two men are pushing on either side of the image. Take a step back and look at the lines, the shape it’s a wave like water that crests in the middle. It is the same shape that is on the Recurrent Resplendence Emblem. Neomuninets refer to The River of Life which is just the basic concept of cycles and the rebirth of the soul, ie reincarnation. The fact that the two men are pushing on either side of the frequency wave tells me that they have rejected this concept which is so interesting. They have now fully embraced the idea of eternal life by uploading themselves to The Cloud Ark, almost like Noah and the Ark, they are going to ride out the collapse or flood but permanently. At the same time though they have to still con their own people about The River of Life and it’s importance in order to get their children to want to be Cloudstriders. It’s almost as if they are embracing two distinct paths or ideals of life and they are in opposition to one another.
I think Light and Darkness are playing dota2/lol, but Darkness pick is - 1) Kalus (lmao) 2) bro even bought back Nezarec when he died and what Nezarec did? he went to feed... 3) Rhulk was carrying this boosted elo ngl. Although what more degenerate is Light side power creeped Darkness enemies, but Light side are kinda trolling, they let enemy to their throne.
That first mural with all the cloud striders makes no sense to me. There seems to have been hundreds or thousands or cloud striders. So why just those few? Does it get updated every 10 years? Why is Nimbus there, they're brand new. If it's updated, why is Nimbus not on the edge? Up until the funeral, all the lore, including that mural, points to the idea that several pairs of cloud striders were active at once. It seems reckless to have only a senior mentor and junior mentee active at once for a job that's obviously deadly by design. It feels like Bungie just changed their mind in the middle of the expansion and didn't clean it up.
What I love about this game is it just keeps giving and the mysteries keep appearing
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Indeed.
Theyve given nothing good for a long time...just ruining what was previously established
One theme is pretty obvious; while the traveler/the light has been referred to as the Sky by ancient beings, it seems like the Darkness is the Sea. And the Neomuni see themselves as way finders
Not the sea, "The Deep". I think it's an important distinction. Sometimes one can dip in the sea and maintain your orientation. Like our gaurdians getting our feet wet with the powers of darkness being used for thr general good. but once you go deep down where the light is no longer visible it's easy to lose your way. It can get so dark you can't tell which way is up anymore.
I think the small circle to the right-hand side of the left mural is the formation of the distributary during the collapse. It sits right in the middle of the veil shape and has both dark and light branches reaching towards it with an "explosion" image. I imagine the awoken lore and the IX will have a pretty major impact on whatever's coming towards final shape
The big Traveler mural with the children looking up into stars actually looks more like an eye to me. But I could be wrong.
agreed I never would think it's anything else. Could just be a mural depicting that one cloud strider that wanted to see the stars but couldn't because of the thick atmosphere of Neptune.
Byf included, this is the best lore channel. No pandering, no false morality pleas, no bad takes about narrative delivery, just lore please keep being great if this is what you like to do man.
When it comes to Destiny lore the big three I really only listen to is Byf, Myelin and Evaze.
I know this is all speculation, the notes and detail you mention around "the guardian" in the mural, I feel, strongly point to Nezarec. Especially if that's the first collapse in the left mural, we know Nezarec lead the back fleet in the assault.
Love your channel brother!
And it can't be coincidence that there's 9 bodies in the middle mural right? This must be the Agents
I really wish Bungie would add these murals to their wallpaper dumps. Would love to have some of these as a wallpaper for my phone or as posters
The main ones can be found in the description link 😁
True. I love the original artwork that shows up during long update downloads.
Right Mural, Bottom Right section. Pretty sure that symbol for Guardian with a revolver and a "Dark" ghost could be the Drifter. The orb to his upper right could also be the mass he carries behind his ship.
The Murals behind the Radial Mast look like Darkness murals from Vow.
Maybe, but the murals in Vow utilized a wider variety of colors and contained much more direct symbolism
I've been waiting for someone to just talk about these murals so thank you!
Maybe we’ll get to see the “birth” of another Cloudstrider since it seems they always work in groups of two.
Will probably be a final shape/post light and dark season.
Maybe we become cloudstriders after the traveler falls, or maybe the veil falls and cloud striders become guardians. (Just spit balling here)
Osiris will become one
@@victormonte5881Nah, my man is too short
You think they are gonna continue an expansions story? XD like that will ever happen
I'm glad someone was talking about this. I spent like half an hour in this room. Just trying to figure out all the imagery
If you go through the Cloud Strider lore, it talks about the Warlords, but if they had been observing Earth this whole time, then they would have been aware that things had changed. They even admitted to the fact that they had been waiting for the guardians to die out before going back to earth. If all of this is true, then they also knew that the last city was a safe haven for humanity and that the last remaining people were under attack by the Hive, the Fallen, the Cabel, the Vex and Taken. They also would have known about the Black fleet. Based on all of that, I don't think they ever intended to help Earth at all, and they were forced into it when the Shadow Legion arrived on Neptune.
The lore of Destiny is too big and has become unruly with contradictions. We can postulate on the developers intentions as far as the story is concerned, but I suspect these are merely plot holes resulting from the aforementioned muddled continuity and lore.
I'm surprised that Evaze didn't mention Nezarec's head being hyper prominent in the central of the 3 murals. It even almost looks like it includes his eye/eyes in the center. If it wasn't supposed to represent Nezy I would truly be shocked.
I agree with you here. Definitely Nezy in the left mural if that's the first collapse. We know Nezarec only remains as pieces and the depiction in the murals don't show a whole body.
It's gotta be him.
The one that is weirding me out is the mural with a guardian with a hand cannon.
Now what if that was Cayde when he was a mercenary before reset. It’s a stretch buut would be fun to see he’s involved somehow. I mean he rode with drifter for a bit so I won’t be surprised at this point.
I wonder if we’ll get more insight in the dungeon that comes out next season. 🤔 It’ll be cool to get more of the background on Neptune itself through it, the same way we got more insight into Calus’ train of thought as he pursued power through the Witness during Duality.
Finally a video on this mural. Cant believe no one has made a fuzz or theory about this thus far.
Have been waiting for this video since I played through that mission!! thank you for your thoroughness my friend
Bro I been looking into them and I was lost. I’m like geeked that u did this🙏🏾
I see the murals as a Past-Present-Future motif (left to right)
The left mural is the founding of Neomuna -- the Warlords of Earth after the collapse - and the FIRST cloudstrider appearing and protecting them.
The middle Mural depicts what's happened right now. We got regular neomuni bunkard down in the ground--- guardians weilding light and dark helping to protect neomuna and the cloudstriders bove them, who are depicted as holding close the gates as it were. Also it's very clearly depicting Nezerac's head shape and eye(s) in the center. No idea who the faces on the left and right represent. A guardian? Perhaps Ashirmir? Maybe it's just solidifying Cloud striders and guardians working together.
Finally the right mural: Nothing in that mural has happened yet as far as I can tell. The bottom portion could be depicting a new cloudstrider being born... interesting said cloudstrider is unique from the other depictions-- having specific features where as the other murals just have a basic design that's reused through out. But this nealing one is more effeminate and has ear-rings-- some sort of headpeace, a blade of sorts on their thigh. (which is uniquely bare skinned). Could also be Satiria? Maybe she gets a human/exo form?
Obviously its our guardian on the right-- seeming to hold a gun. No idea who the face in the back might be... personal theory: It's the Vex Mind -- Aesop. He's only mentioned once in the warlock exotic Swarmer Pants. But it mentions him as a very peculiar vex mind that offered "safety" from the vex, in exchange for loyalty and subjugation, as their king of sorts.
Upon refusing he alluded strongly their children would die--- and then when denied again he unleashed the vex and killed that generation of Neomuni children. He left saying "he'll return one day" -- so my prediction is Aesop is the face in the background. Trying to lord over the Neomuni again. But now he faces a guardian and a cloudstrider. The top portion I'm thinking is a time after the cloudstriders-- when the Neomuni all have to step up and work together for a brighter future. They all look up towards that future, hands held together.
i wouldnt be surprised when the final shape comes we look at the mural and hit ourselves that it was looking at us the entire time with the answers, have to admit i never noticed the other 2 either side of the main one in the mast room but it looks like past on the left with the collapse ( i always assumed the half half figure represented the witness or some paracausal being) the middle being the events of lightfall with the linking of the veil and the traveler. and the one on the right showing the lead up to the final shape with nimbus doing something to the veil to let us gain access to the portal at the traveler to get to the witness
Thank you I was waiting for a video on this in the campaign. I stood and stare at it for about 20 minutes, trying to figure it out… lol❤
I think that the two ends of the veil represent the physical and pericasle so we can use it to potentially travel where the witness when.
For me the right mural is like a prophecy, where we can see Nimbus above the veil, kneeling and mourning while behind or slightly above them is the face of Rohan with the tombstones. And those stones could represent darkness(left) middle(cloudstrider) and light(right) deaths... which could point to the end of the light and dark saga??? Or a bigger sacrifice?
i wanna give my theory for the first one. The depicted figures on the side on the first one definitely are not guardians but its the witness. it could be a mural depicting the events of lightfall, the left ghost could be the radial mast (heavy reaching) while the one on the right is our ghost, both were used by the witness to try and link to the veil. the 2 cloud striders in the middle could represent rohan and the annoying one (forgot their name), the table of neomuni could be the ones we interact with and even the news broadcaster. the giant face on the right could actually be rohan (the gray part could be his beard just over done) or osiris (bit above his eyes could be about his mass knowledge on the darkness and the multiple blobbish person things representing his other figures in the curse of osiris), while the left could actually be the guardian depicted in a sinister light and since strand is a darkness ability, has things resembling the darkness (egregore looking stuff).
Middle mural also has the shape of nezarac's helmet.
You know the saying “eyes are the windows to the soul” I’m looking at that mural and I’m trying to figure who’s eye are they depicting. Makes me think of it’s confirming the lady in white who’s inside the traveler. What I get is that since dark and light must exist, constantly shifting but maintaining balance, because it’s how time flows. I think there will be more deep diving and revelation from the Ishtar Collective because we’re seeing what’s in front of us but we’re aren’t seeing what’s in front us at the same time. The dark void of space lives with the vast stars in the universe. The traveler may not want to want to combine with the darkness as it understands that a life of what it has seen time and time again start over (maybe she’s develop a soft spot for her creations). When i star explodes, it happens at its core, in which it creates as much as it destroys. Idk I think I’ve found a rabbit hole.
PS: My head cannon is that the witness during the explosion is ready and has a condom ready for some odd reason as he enters the “triangle”. Unless this whole thing is a euphemism for SA as we see how much of a temper the witness has when he’s “checked”.
Every time I do that mission I sit and stare at that mural for the entire ending and I just wonder, are we the baddies?
Been dying for a video talking about this
The reference to an hourglass when talking about Rohan’s notes is referring to the black garden
honestly to me i felt like the mural on the left of the radial mast was more like the witness and traveler and how they're not so different or connected in some way via the ghosts. but you know thats just what i felt
I don’t think the witness is anywhere on here except maybe his fleet of darkness ships. I don’t think the witness represents the darkness, they just use it.
god the soundtrack sends you amongst the stars
At 3:50 to 4:00 mark i have a theory about those nine figures in the center, those are The Nine, those who live beyond the ascendant plane or are of the veil, can never remember which part of their lore it is. They are the most mysterious of figures we hear about from their representative Xur.
The mural at 10:00 looks more like an eye rather than the Traveler and the Veil. The meaning behind an eye idk
I don’t think that’s a depiction of Guardians, but either Nezarec or Witness. I can def see it being Nezarec more than the Witness, but considering Witness can control ghosts I wouldn’t be shocked if he had one before lol
Am I crazy or does half skeletal guardian depiction at 3:33 kinda looks like the same idea behind the warlock RON raid armor. With the body split into to different sides, one armored and one more fleshy side, probably just a huge coincident.
What if the nine humans are a reference to the NINE and their connection to light and dark?
Been waiting for this one.
The veil is a seed. It's creating a new universe. We're at the end of ours, that's how the witness has finally caught up. The traveler has no where else to go, no other protectors to count on
The mural with the people looking up at the stars, I believe those are actually travellers.
I believe there were or still are many of them.
Those 9 " people " could be agents of the 9?
10:25 those red lights probably represent the Vex. In early concept art the biggest Vex machines (building sized ones or bigger) had lots of irregularly placed red eyes all over them
Well adding on to the Vex we have yet to see the soldiers of the vex. In beyond light the vex that we’ve been fighting are equivalent to farmers. The Wyverns are the first of the soldiers units of the vex. There’s still a bunch of Greek monsters they have yet to cover that we may see
On that note, I think the white 'shooting stars' are actually the Ghosts being born from the veil and going to the Traveler.
I’m still upset we don’t get a cloud strider style armor that’s like nimbus’ and pulses with nanomachines son
6:31 I believe 2nd one is the Witness and the Traveler also I speculate that the Ghost that we have aren’t of Traveler intended…..I suspect the Witness and the Ghost are more connected then we was told….and suspect Ghost are Witness made.
Hey evaze like where your going with this but I wanted to ask about the vex portal will that have somthing to do with the final shape will we go through it or destroy it. I would like to see more cloudstriders though
The egregor will be making a return along with new species in a future DLC
Also we definitely will be getting vex content before that
Finally someone talks about this!!!
Bare with me on this, but I think it's the nine. There can't be a coincidence that there are 9 characters on the bottom middle panel. What's crazier is there is 5 staying around a table and 4 that look like there transcending? The nine had 5 that wanted to learn and 4 that wanted to do other things. The nine lore on the wiki states this
Anyone else ever notice the gun on the right mural at the bottom? Could that be tied to the hand cannon we get next season with our Lightfall/Veil mission they told us about? Starting to think it'll be one of the founders of Neomuna's weapon, perhaps a guardian who ended up there in the early years.
Perhaps Efrideet? Thought it may be unlikely.
10:16
The eye of the gardener
I saw the ones before calus and instantly went “byf or Evaze will get around to it”
Just a comment on the left mural with that figure "holding" the sides it looks like the staff/ artifact that is featured so prominently in the root of nightmares.
About damn time someone talking the mural were Rohan sacrificed himself at
I hope some point in the future theres a way to extend the lifespan for the neomuni
An hourglass is meant to be flipped when full. Perhaps it shows how Light and Dark switch back and forth in ascendancy. The witness wants to destroy the hourglass purging the universe of light and dark and ending the flower game, where our goal should be bringing balance turning the hourglass sideways as Asher shows us.
The one in the midle also resembles the spire of the watcher
At 6:00 it sort of looks like the skeleton person has little arms and hands on the lower part of their body. Maybe it's 2 beings combined together (light and dark) maybe it's the witness and the traveler/gardener as one but is now split for some reason. maybe the ghost to the left of this being represents the darkness (since our ghost got taken over) and you can see the traveler to the right representing the light obviously. Also why is he called the witness? What did he witness?
I have a question about the hourglass part. I know in one of the past sessions the nine say something about a hourglass like object.
I believe that was meant to refer to Elsie Bray (or at least that's how it seemed at the time) because the nine were speaking about individual people there as the drifter was mentioned as well
Crazy how a wall has more story than the entire campaign
The mural on the right has a circle with the western hemisphere, it's very obvious and that leads me to believe all circles represent planets. 1 circle looks like it has the terraformed leaves.
I bet Viel is a device for time travel esp in multiple timelines.
I also speculate what if the Witness and the traveller r the same just from different timelines. Want to get unity to attain final percausality and rule over all the time lines.
The 9 might be something like watchers to guard over the timeline this might come ask for help later.
The top half of the bottom section of the left mural might have been a Neomuni prediction of the Warlords siding with the Witness.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point out the murals behind the mast. Maybe one is a prophecy. Past, present, future.
Evaze, your the one normally pointing out the lore stuff, 9 humans who might be the original founds.. Or could literally be THE NINE that keep coming up over and over again who control unknown space.... you know that nine?
I was about to say the very same thing. THE NINE.
3:53 Nine you say? Seems kinda relevant.
I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THIS MURAL!!! I TRIED TO SEE AS MUCH AS I could but none of it made any sense to me. I didn't really know what I was looking at lmfao
I have a question about the cloudstriders life span: they live on Neptune, their entire existence is on Neptune, why would they still use an Earth year as their measurement of time? When they say their lifespan is 10 years are we just assuming 10 Earth years or is it about 1650 Earth years (the length of 10 years on Neptune)?
I think one of the beings on the hour glass murals was savathun
Anyone else notice that the Witness is shaped like an hourglass?
I always thought the skull figure in the middle was the witness next to its pyramid fleet
I think it tells the story of light and dark splitting. And a balance between the two. The 9 might represent the 9
"Not sure if the 9 people looking up has any significance but..." This is Bungie, it DEFINITELY has significance.
The guardian on the left might be eris and her bone while the guardian on the right is drifter with his hand canon. 👀
The infinity symbol is also shaped like an hourglass.
Oh and let's not forget what The Whitness is shaped like.
...to me the "guardians" might not be them...after looking at the second one (the left one) with the "guardian" on its own, dont it kinda look more like the witness than a guardian? especially with what looks like the black fleet and the traveler, as for the first one with the 2 "guardians" maybe they represent witness and some other being entirely, or maybe there the gardener and the winnower, but that's just another person's thought xD great vid keep them coming
Tinfoil time! [grab a coffee]
It's a triptych; with one panel for Past, Present, and Future (which is now our present). Also, with the Hourglass shape calling to time, It may be worth noting what's outside the hourglass shape as being outside of time. On the left we see the creation of Neomuna, and the Cloudstrider that hid Neomuna, hiding it "outside of time" (on the right), while it pushed back both light and dark from finding it. On the left of this panel, iconograpy/patterns of the Pyramid ships can be seen. Darkness is paracausal and the realm of the non-physical, and so would naturally exist "outside of time" The Ghost wielder at the bottom may not actually be a warlord OR a guardian but some other"lightbearer". The ghost is unique as it has a black section, and the lightbearer is the only one with black "bones". The only lightbearer that loosely fit this thematic would be Savathun. But she "just" got her ghost, so that doesn't makes sense, timeline-wise (then again, lightbearers are paracausal, and Savathun was there before the collapse and it's hard to follow her cunning. The Triangles here are probably the Pyramid ships. Ignoring the ghost situation; This probably shows when Savathun hid the veil on Neomuna, which is the reason for it's advancement. I think there's a difference between the darkness that gives us Stasis and Strand... and the darkness of the Witness. I beleive the "bring the end of all things darkness" (or "evil" darkness) of the Witness is shown in black, and the "the other side of light is darkness" darkness (or "Yin" darkness) is shown in red. Savathun was shown to have been experimenting ripping out the light from lightbearers, maybe she did this to give herself a ghost during this time. Then something happened and she forgot, and then she got one "naturally". The vieil on Neptune and finding strand on neptune links the veil as a darkness artifact, which we all know. And while for some reason Pyramids have access to the Traveler directly, they didn't have access to the veil directly, which is shown here (The larger orb is the traveler as evidenced by the "scars" at the bottom)
The middle at the bottom, shows how humanity has turned to Guardrians, and away from Warlords, since they are "lightless" the backdrop to them is dark. The warlords are lightbearers who use their power for darkness, so they have a mostly light backdrop with a "dark streak". Above it, almost as though there is a ceiling to separate them, We see the "CloudStrider Pair" who hold up and protect Neomuni. The middle circle might be the CloudArk, and not the veil. The bigger dark circle surrounding it is likely the Veil. From Neptune's perspective (ignoring planetary rotation) the Traveler would be closer by distance, or "bigger" (ignoring actual scale; since this is an artists rendition)The striders also look like they are "closing the door" to the veil. The face on the left is consistent with Guardians, who are paracausal and thus "outside time". While the face is still a skull, referencing that all Guardians are technically re-animated corpses, it looks much less aggressive than the smaller depictions. The face on the right could be a CloudStrider, but it doesn't appear to have the same augmentation pictography as the face on the right mural. A long-shot guess is that this is one of the agents of Darkness, probably the Witness, as all of the Disciples have a very distinctly alien appearance; while the Witness is relatively human-looking.... with a smokestack for hair. In the middle we see a column, which may just be a "support beam" to show how the CloudArk/Veil supports what looks like Humans. Humans who appear to be "underground" as the CloudStrider monuments sit on the surface. This probably references the current state of Neomuna's lockdown where the people are hidden away and not on the surface.
On the right mural. The face on the right Mural looks incredibly like Rohan's face. As the prophetic panel, this likely foretells his sacrifice. It Also note that this is the only appearance of the Guardian with a weapon in these murals. The middle figure on the bottom is kneeling with the ghost between it and the gun. This is almost perfectly analogous to the final cut-scene. I think the fact that there is no black color on the ghost, while it is also not as "light" as the one in the middle mural, may point to the fact that it was "hijacked" and not an actual evil/corrupted ghost. Also the orb behind the Guardian looks like Earth (Americas), and, you see black tendrils reaching it (The Witness was able to "create the link"). The 3 Pillars could be a different version of the CloudStrider Monuments, or they could be a first look into the place where they are created (maybe when they are "born" they also emerege from monument-like structures). But there are 3 when they usually come in 2's. These could also be a representation of the city. From here remember, this is a prophetic murial. At the top we see 4 CloudStriders (who have red hair) and 3 half-circles of light, with a more CloudStrider Murals behind. Guardians work in 3's and CloudStriders work in 2s. I don't know why there are 4, but if we're facing the end of the universe, it makes sense that they'd bring in more than normal. Also note that the 3 orbs can also be moved to fit between the 4. The interesting part is the 4 "Warlord style" ghosts on the left side of the mural on the right. They are "outside time" and haven't shown up yet in-game/lore. With the veil connected, we may see a change to the "natural order" of things (or what we thought was natural). On the right side, outside of time, there is a very abstract, "incoherent" mashup of suff. I've got nothing for that part.
The murals probably represent the creation of neomuna.. the cloudstriders.. the creation of the cloudstriders & probably what they knew about earth.
The one by the radial mast though... kinda reminds me of the last supper painting.
Maybe the scary being is the Witness and the mural prophesy how they would control our ghost (and maybe the connection between our ghost and the darkness)? Idk, the Witness was my first thought when seeing that image. A shame how we can't access this area while on patrol. Seems like a wasted effort from Bungie
Could the nine figures be the agents of the nine that xur works for?
we need to talk about how yummy the music at 10:44 is
finally, iv been commenting about these for a while lol
The figure with the ghost is an image of the Witness. At least it seems so
I have been commenting on this mural in everyone’s videos since Lightfall dropped; Thank You for finally doing a video on it. So in the first mural, the two men are pushing on either side of the image. Take a step back and look at the lines, the shape it’s a wave like water that crests in the middle. It is the same shape that is on the Recurrent Resplendence Emblem. Neomuninets refer to The River of Life which is just the basic concept of cycles and the rebirth of the soul, ie reincarnation. The fact that the two men are pushing on either side of the frequency wave tells me that they have rejected this concept which is so interesting. They have now fully embraced the idea of eternal life by uploading themselves to The Cloud Ark, almost like Noah and the Ark, they are going to ride out the collapse or flood but permanently. At the same time though they have to still con their own people about The River of Life and it’s importance in order to get their children to want to be Cloudstriders. It’s almost as if they are embracing two distinct paths or ideals of life and they are in opposition to one another.
If the Traveller is a mushroom, the veil as a mycellium can grow up another one.
There is a poster of the witness in the arcade lost sector
Art inside of Pyramid of the Rhulk and symbols to and what is the story behind it? and doing of the season of the witch queen
I think Light and Darkness are playing dota2/lol, but Darkness pick is - 1) Kalus (lmao) 2) bro even bought back Nezarec when he died and what Nezarec did? he went to feed... 3) Rhulk was carrying this boosted elo ngl. Although what more degenerate is Light side power creeped Darkness enemies, but Light side are kinda trolling, they let enemy to their throne.
Those 9 people I'm going to guess are the nine and how they will play into trying to take control of the light and the dark
The nine people looking right could be the nine xur talks to.
I wonder if the veil created the traveler? So many questions in my dam head man 😅😂
Unrelated but I wonder what happened to us getting our own pouka?
With the hourglass on its side that symbolize time is standing still?
Change colors on murals maybe we can see more in detail.
"there can only be 2 at a time,a mentor and a apprentice"is that suppose to be a reference?
1:13 OH GOD, IT'S MARIO!!!1+1+!!!!
But what about the cat in the Poka pond area? Why is it there?
That first mural with all the cloud striders makes no sense to me. There seems to have been hundreds or thousands or cloud striders. So why just those few? Does it get updated every 10 years? Why is Nimbus there, they're brand new. If it's updated, why is Nimbus not on the edge? Up until the funeral, all the lore, including that mural, points to the idea that several pairs of cloud striders were active at once. It seems reckless to have only a senior mentor and junior mentee active at once for a job that's obviously deadly by design. It feels like Bungie just changed their mind in the middle of the expansion and didn't clean it up.
you said 9 people... we forget about the nine?
was that a jelly fish with the poukas?
Anyone knows the name of the song of 9:36?
Discovery