History of WWI Primer 090: Austro-Hungarian Werndl Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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Special thanks:
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Daniel for donating a very helpful book!
Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
Die hand-und Faustfeuerwaffen der habsburgischen Heere
Erich Gabriel
Josef Werndl und die Waffenfabrik in Steyr
Hans Stögmüller
Safe range space thanks to Triana Protection
Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Visit us at candrsenal.com
"sprengwolkenmarkierpatrone"( blast cloud marker) was to pinpoint positions to the artillery either your own or -very important newly taken enemy positions
46:47 Werndl invented the HK slap, change my mind
Nope, Dreyse did... its even on the manual!
No
The Werndl Wack
9:03 "...this conflict, which no one can ever make a single joke about..." As a distant foreigner, I am reminded of an emotive Lebanese shop keeper admonishing representatives of the Western media: "...a civil war? How dare you call this a 'civil war'! This is the most uncivil of wars!"
Such is the tragic irony of the English language. :/
Something i heard somewhere in the past: " A Civil war? There was nothing civil about it. It was anything but civil."
Too soon maybe.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 There are quirks in all languages. Nothing tragic or ironic about it.
Where did that comment come from? Did someone get their panties in a twist because Othias made a joke or something?
Interesting that Austria-Hungary adopted both metallic cartridges and packet loading a good few years before the French or Germans. Arms evolved so greatly in the later 1800s.
I am a gun collector based in the UK, with a particular interest in the arms of the Great War. I just wanted to say what I superb resource you have created for serious arms collectors. I am a member of the HBSA (Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association) and a number of our members are also fans of your channel. I have learned new things about arms that I though I was well read in! I appreciate the detailed research that has gone into each presentation and especially the live firing test and assessment of the arm in relation to other arms of its period. This attention to detail and rigour are much appreciated. After your marathon survey of Great War arms is completed, I do hope you will write a book, for I shall be at the head of the queue to purchase it!
I do miss when Othias would Refer to the US Civil War by a different name in every episode.
The Great “unpleasantness “, is what I’ve seen it referred to in a 1888 book
And what was that? I don't recall another name...
@@sionsoschwalts2762 The Great Southern Rebellion is one he used
@@georgewhitworth9742 thanks
@@sionsoschwalts2762 war of northern aggression is one
Saw one in Afghanistan about 7 years ago, fascinating action.
Can confirm that the Austrian Rolling blocks were actually produced, mine is serial number 1207 but I have no idea if the serial block actually started at 1. Fruhwirth made the barrels for them and marked them as such. The cartridge they use is a .45-70 but rimfire oddly enough. From the research I could do on Paget, he essentially just ran a small job shop (so says the 1860-something census that he is mentioned in) which is likely why he was so incredibly ill prepared to take a military contract. Lore states that after a short trial they were sold to china. I've seen a photo of one identical to mine that was scrubbed of markings and referred to as a "Chinese short rifle." but I don't have any further info on that.
Yes and no. The order for 50 000 Rifles from July 1866 was canceled in August 1866, and Paget "was given a reasonable summ of money as compensation". (so the original ones were never produced it seems) Then after comming up with an additional hammer safety they ordered 2000 Infantery and Jäger Rifles in December 1866 for troop testing. If yours od one of the latter it might have (or maybe it got removed) an additional "dingus" on the front of the part of the hammer you pull with your finger. (I only have a black and white Photo and the description as "additional hammer safety to prevent unintentional cocking of the hammer" so i can't describe it better.)
I absolutely love the comparison to the M1 Carbine. A good idea that should have stayed around for various near-front-line support personnel.
50:00 "But that's for another time" Gasser M1870 finally!? Been waiting for a very long time. I remember the tease during the Webley episode.
I wish we could all pack up our Karl Holubs.
Them 19th century labor laws.
Fun fact: Holub means pidgeon in Czech. Or, in another meaning, a booger.
Gotta love adding a 20 inch bayonet to an already 50 inch rifle. Surprised they didn’t just strap barrels on pikes too
There are things like that. Called kombinated weapons. There are examples of pike-pistols, sword-pistols and even shields with integrated pistols
I was waiting and hoping for a Werndl episode since I discovered your channel when subscriber where in single digits.
So: A heart-felt THANK YOU!
Keep up the good work!
i was always wondering, what is according to Mae the best second-line, rearguard rifle of the war.
Obviously its the vetterli carcano (when it doesn't blow up.)
Winchester 94? Magazine, fast action and a good smokeless round.
Artillery luger
I wish I could remember her choice, but Im sure she picked a carbine for her second line favourite. For the life of me I cannot remember, it wasn't the carcano, she said it was "so cute to fire". Damn it, distracted by Mae and I forgot the facts she was saying lol. That's the problem with 20th century males, we love intelligent women, just not when they are cute and distracting with deadly weapons. (Lettermen call back). The Intelligence of Mae just makes it worse. I hate being Sapiosexual lol. No offence intended.
Carl Carlton ah yes when your second line rifle is actually better than main (ironically called a three line) rifle
Over an hour long and MORE than WORTH WATCHING. Thank you so much for you effort in making a great video.
This is like family history for me. My family came from Steyr and my grandfather and great grandfather both worked for the munitions industry in the city, my grandfather going to the factory about the age of 12 due to the start of the First World War, where he became a certified tool and die maker by the time he was 15. I know that my great grandfather lived in some of the Werndl housing-- at least some of which is still there.
50:08 104,000 Schritt? Ambitious indeed!
Have a schritt, leave a schritt. Need a schritt, take a sh.....well, you get the idea.
Love your series, just found it 5 weeks ago through Ian Forgotten Weapons. Hooked been binge watching it since then, my neighbours think I am crazy when I turn up the sound to hear Mae fire those mostly nice beautiful classic guns. I have a theory that the gun 90% of people are waiting for, that 7 hour detailed episode of that gun, (you all know it) will be the last episode of WW1. :)
Aside from Forgotten Weapons and its more respectable ilk, I didn't subscribe to any other gun channel because they ARE wgat they portray themselves - brain dead partisan hacks who always endanger the responsible gun owner with their middle finger gestures to the government.
Love the way you folks put a show together..very well researched, and great videography. Thanks for all your efforts.
I have an original Lorenz in serviceable condition and live in SC, perhaps you would be interested in a rifle comparison or would like to use my rifle in a video with the evolution of Austrian Arms.
"it wouldnt call you for a third date though." i think youre talking schritt there mae.
good luck c&rsenal crew!!!
Wherever i wander,
Wherever i rove
This channel of weapons
For ever i love...
Thank y'all for doing the Werndl. Not enough vids or history that I've seen on it and please keep up the content since you guys make among the best gun content (along with Forgotten Weapons and InRange) that made.
Edit: Just copied my comments from the older version of the Werndl video to this version.
I got 2 of those a "Stutzen" and "Gewehr". Both beautiful and still good on the range
Awesome content as always. A big thank you. Love the style, detail and historical background. Best wishes to you all and season's greetings! :)
Merry Christmas Othias and Mae, and all the crew that help bring us these great videos. Hope you can relax a little and we'll see you in the new year.
This is a great episode!
The intermediate/PCC round is so far ahead of its time!!
Werndls before dirndls.
As a gun nerd and gun nut, I would probably pay money for your jobs. Keep up the damn good work Othias and May.
Loved watching this at night in front of my fireplace with my glass of vodka, having done everything I needed to do today, nothin'like it! Love your channel's videos, keep it up!
I did think at first glance this was a long episode for a rear eschelon weapon, but had no idea that this was the foundation of modern Austrian production at ŒWG
What an elegant gun. This was a fun episode.
Thanks Othais and Mae I finally got my shirts in 2 days ago! I just want to say It was not a problem i knew you guys had some problems with printing.
*Mae* , if you have shot one - how does the Werndl compare to a Trapdoor Springfield? Especially with attention to loading/unloading time?
Bravo! Bravo! Great episode. I am now richer in knowledge. Thank you for the included details...
Werndlful, just Werndlful content.
I had been waiting for this. For some inexplicable reason this is prob. my favorite breechloader. It's just so simple and neat!
At this rate, I would not be suprised at All if Othias gives us a muzzleloader episode
O_O this is actually a really simple and fun system for a rifle. Wow what a beautiful piece
I love seeing Mae's smile when firing a rifle I know the satisfaction of a well firing piece of kit
A slow but very satisfying looking action.
Well, the whole combined carbine/handgun cartridge idea does have merit. After all, we now have the FN P90 and the Five-Seven, both chambered in 5.7×28mm... and that one worked great!
There have also been a few pistols in .30 carbine over the years .
@@richarddixon7276 Indeed, but none of those were adopted for use by any military, which is what we were after here... We could also talk a lot about early automatic pistols such as the C96 (which saw official adoption) which were designed to function both as a pistol or as a carbine, or about current generation pistol-carbines chambered in 9mm by use of adapters, but again, none of those latter have been fielded by any army as far as I know.
@@wingsofwrath4647 That's true , I'm not aware of any official military use for any of those I mentioned , nor any others that might be out there . The use of automatic pistols is just as much a minefield of if's & but's , but equally as interesting , I just wish C&R had the resources time & energy to compile something along those line's (We can all have dreams) , it's My Favourite (English spelling) TH-cam channel ,along with Anvil. But Forgotten Weapons runs close and a few others help keep Me up to date with more modern developments , even though I only shoot air weapon's My self , I find firearms history and development fascinating and love finding out as much as I can , I just wish My history lessons at School had been this interesting !
I'm really loving the music you guys are putting into the episodes.
You guys are troopers! You guys do an amazing job. I have no doubt we only know not even half of what you guys go through for the show
Your content is always very professional and polished, thank you for the content
I got myself one of the 1873/77 carbines, in the process of restoration :)) beautiful piece
Here from Isonzo the WW1 FPS set in the Italian campaign. This is one of my favorite rifles to use and it hits like a freight train and sounds like a grenade going off
We hae a name for such heavy triggers in Switzerland. It's a stonebreaker trigger :)
Another very interesting episode, keep it up. I notice there is a Madsen LMG on the wall behind you, will there be an episode on this weapon? From what I understand it was tried by almost every nation involved in the Great War but never officially adopted by any of them, is this true?
Russian Empire officially adopted Madsen even before TGW. And tried to start domestic production during it.
I believe it was also officially adopted by German mountain troops their light MG but only in fairly small numbers as the Danes remained neutral and refused to sell additional guns to the Germans.
Keep up the great work guys we love you
Say what you want I kind of love all of these single shot rifles. With the rolling block being my favorite since... it's just a cool rifle.
Love this channel! Cheers!
8:56 Ooo, I can feel a bit of a sting in that line
Great ep. Thanks for posting.
The carbine and Mae would make a nice poster. They are beautiful.
I still remember being weirded out by seeing one in Afghanistan about 9 years ago. Weird action.
C&Rsenal Small Arms of the U.S. Afghanistan War. That would take *so* many episodes.
I think it is handsome gun. I think the designer and people who were involved with developing this weapon did some good career choices. They went out to see the world and try to learn what was out there. The location they chose to study and learn was good idea. The dude came in the U.S. to study at the right time period where there was a lot of good ideas being made and bad ones to learn from.
Cap&Ball made me like this rifle first. But y'all at C&rsenal are a close second.
Love your videos so much info for guns that are lost to history. Not every gun has to be tacticool to make its mark in history. Keep up the good work guys.
104,000 schrick is close to 60 miles or 95 km that is some really over the top sights lol 😉
lol thats what I was thinking!
77 km.
Trapdoor Springfield also used a lighter, special, loading for its carbines.
As did the Martini Henry.
tombogan03884 although from what I heard, the lighter load kind of became standard.
17:02 - I'd like to imagine that Werndl was an ancestor of either Ian or Karl over at InRange. A predisposition towards abusing firearms could very well be genetic.
Karl is Norwegian in ancestry, so unlikely.
@@ANonymous-bh1un We're all mutts in one way or another, A Non.
thank for the videos you are a great team! I am still with you on Patrion and will stick it out. let us know our options when you get any good ones till then take some time to rest!
Hay Othais! Your screws are loose.
These are very unique and beautiful guns, would love to shoot eh! Thank y'all for all y'all research and work
Very nice discussion on the transitional Rifles.
As for Poles with Werndles, the first Polish unit equipped with this rifles was actually the Polish Legion (often - and not quite correctly - dubbed 'Pilsudski's Legion'), serving as a semi-autonomous part of the Austro-Hungarian Army in 1914-1916 (thereafter the Austrian command had enough of this valiant but unruly bunch). These rifles were acquired by what originally was technically a paramilitary shooting association just before the war and saw action against Russians at the very beginning of the conflict. Obviously, as soon as possible, they were replaced by Mannlichers. Legionnaires prided themselves of 'exchanging' their antiquated single-shooters for Mannlichers, optimally the newest model (handy upper handguard - no hand burning - being the most cited asset!), per fas and nefas, with the KUK soldiers.
So that were the werndles and the conversion rifles came from during the War of 1920
Enjoy the channel, history and there take on it..Quality
Awesome!!! A double shot of Mae!!!! The carbine would be my fav also.
Any references to Austria-Hungary before 1867 are Imperial Austrian.
Josef Weendl rocked an awesome mustache.
At least Austria-Hungary adopted metallic cartridge before Prussia.
Have you guys gotten a chance to watch "They Shall Not Grow Old"? Its in theaters coming up, and I'm not sure exactly where you guys are, but I'm kind of hyped about getting to check it out in theaters
Thank you for a wonderfully informative video. I am looking forward to when you get around to the Schwarzlose MGs, especially since stumbling across the pre-WWI brochure from Kynoch offering a presumably license built copy of the gun on Ian's blog. I hope you and your diligent researchers are able to run that one to earth as the story behind that one is going to be very interesting indeed.
Othais and Mae make me so very happy.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
How's the Gerbil doing?
Love,
David
Has the tabernacle breech survived in anything modern like the falling block has in the Ruger big-game single shots?
Not in this name, but i think the French 75 field gun used something similar so maybe some artillery pieces still do.
I am sure many know this, so for those that don't, in Europe, the 1st floor is what we in America would call the 2nd floor. This was true back in the 1800s as it is now.
Tease, oh you know we have to have it.
Great episode as always. Well done
Are we going to see the Blitzgewehr (Werder) on this series, or was it never used in reserve?
Play at 0.5 speed for drunk Othais! Love it!
Index finger power!!!
Gasser revolver!!
Great video!
I stay on patreon until you'r ready for better.
After my many years, I had never seen this type of rifle. I have fallen in love with it. Now to get a reproduction chambered in pistol round as a play toy. Keep up the excellent work.
Is it the tabernacle action that intrigues you or just a cute little pistol caliber single shot carbine? Because there are mini Sharps rifles that are in .38 special/.357 mag and are a delight to shoot, much like these carbines, but they actually are currently made and sold so one could pretty easily get one. If it's the action and rifle itself, I guess keep your eyes peeled at gun shows?
@@aurorawhorealis The 'tabernacle action' is what interest me. It is so 'strange' in my eyes.
@@tholmes9341 Ah, well then that's a little harder to get. Perhaps a Snider Enfield would scratch your itch? It isn't exactly the same action but it operates in basically the same way, and at least in the US they are available, unlike these, though ammo is not easily found unless you roll your own. This is the problem with learning about cool old guns, you fall in love with one only to find owning one is almost impossible lol
One thing that Always bugs me: why colt or Remington would allow access to their factories, to potential new players the arms market ? Did they pay the companies for this?
Those guys didn't just watch, they worked there for some time as employees. Due to their learned mechanical and educational skills they probably were employees Remington and Colt were happy to have for as long as thy did. As well as they probably were of the opinion that those few guys could never chalenge them on their "home turf" of gunmaking.
Very Interesting & helps tie in a lot of what Iv'e learned from You guys in previous episodes , that carbine is "Cute" and looks like a lot of fun . Thanks for another great History lesson . Oh and If I ever win a decent wedge on the lottery I'll buy You that Vickers in .3006 and a stack of ammo , as long as You put footage of Mae shooting it on the show . Thanks again Folks !
love it guys! Keep up the awesome content
Mae,the recoil Queen!!
So nice to see Mae shooting for the first time without some distracting music in the background.
FIRST FLOOR Note to Americans in Europe 1st floor is the Second floor, what we think of as 1st is Ground or Lobby depending where you are
Just wanted to let you know that the lighting was a bit distracting and unnatural compared to earlier episodes. And this channel deserves so many more subscribers!
By the way, that's the sear spring not the trigger spring. Those old back action locks that combined the main spring and the sear spring were extremely heavy. That's why they went back to using a separate sear spring. About twenty years before the tabernacle rifle was invented I might add.
...Mae with a trapdoor, with Othias's history...I can dream😄
Just a thought could you do a playlist in date order I know some overlap is inevitable but it would I think help to see the technical progression.
The link from this mornings Patreon email was broken. Luckily I know where else to get my C&Rsenal fix.
Yeah great history and video thanks
When the screws fall out on presentation, only a great host needs no edit. Great save. Physically demanding presentation by the sounds of your grunting.
The werndl is a gorgeous rifle
Mae notes this is a *very* heavy rifle. However, although it is very thick all round it weighs only a couple of ounces more than a loaded M1 Garand. Werndl 10 lbs, unloaded M1 9.5 lbs.
Had to look up Tombac/tombak. A mostly copper and very little zinc alloy. Would think brass was cheaper.
While smoke signals/targeting could have been a use, my bet would be for smokes screens which would be used to blind you enemy while you moved around the battle field. This was often deployed by artillery but having a rifle version for small units could be very useful.
Maybe some info on the Austrian Remington Rolling blocks Paget tried to sell them: The order for 50 000 Rifles from July 1866 was canceled in August 1866, and Paget "was given a reasonable summ of money as compensation". (so the original ones were never produced it seems) Then after comming up with an additional hammer safety they ordered 2000 Infantery and Jäger Rifles in December 1866 for troop testing. If yours od one of the latter it might have (or maybe it got removed) an additional "dingus" on the front of the part of the hammer you pull with your finger. (I only have a black and white Photo and the description as "additional hammer safety to prevent unintentional cocking of the hammer" so i can't describe it better.)
Source: The book "Die Hand- und Faustfeuerwaffen der Habsburgischen Heere" by Erich Gabriel. And he references the Austro Hungarian "war archive" from 1866 as source.
What a Werndl-ful firearm, and video!