Great video, I appreciate you speaking in numbers, way easier to picture the economy when you think of just the minimum villager requirements per military building.
As a new RTS player this fundemental video is amazing. The explanation of the question WHY, really helps instead of just dropping of some hard to understand build order for some random rush stratergy. Thanks! looking forward to this series
I played this a ton as a kid, coming back now i truly realize the challenges of the game at higher difficulties. My current tackle is trying to be on par or faster then the Hard AI in skirmishes as it seems to enter the classical era EXTREMELY quickly and then shortly after launches a soft attack which can be devastating to people behind. This video is pretty helpful at getting things moving abit better
I've been playing the game for a while now, but I was playing it casually, tried playing the AI in hard and couldn't win multiple times, but after watching your video and practicing my early game, I defeated the AI on hard massively. the things you teach made a huge improvement in my game. Thank you!
The last strategy game I played was "Seven Kingdoms AA, and that was 20 years ago! It's great to have a good video to get me back into the RTS genre again, thanks for the info!
So that's why the voice and face is familiar, I watched you on your Titanfall 2 deep dive videos as one of the devs. Thanks for this vid. I just started yesterday and played via Gamepass. Will definitely revisit this from time to time.
Stay well clear of it for competitive play. If you're just playing AI matches/campaign for fun, then whatever. But it's a terribly inefficient thing that anyone giving multiplayer a serious shot needs to turn off.
I keep thinking it's right but can't help feeling I'm forgetting something. For the homework it would equal to around 11 villagers on food and 12 on gold mines, is that right? I keep thinking it's too many villagers but then again, it's constant production 😅
Yes, you got it right! Remember, constant production is not necessarily something you can immediately achieve as you age up. Some gaps in production are ok while your eco is growing to the point of being able to fully support your buildings.
Is relying on auto que villagers sustainable for long term or is it somthing you want to get away from if your trying to get to the top level? And if it's somthing to get away from, if you're pushing to get to the top level, should you be even using it in the first place at lower levels?
Autoqueue on villagers is perfectly fine to rely on. In ranked play, you have to however get used to training military units manually. Pretty sure the vast majority of games are played without military AQ! If you're trying to get good, don't use military AQ even in custom games.
Thanks! So I won't be doing this format again, as the whole point is about the maths and core concepts, not giving direct instructions. I will eventually get to build orders, but in the meantime, I would recommend those posted by Magic: www.youtube.com/@IamMagicAOM/videos
Hello. Thanks for the guide. Really useful. I'm still a big newbie, so sorry if my question is dumb. I'm playing in hard in campaign right now, and a lot of time, i'm unequal on food gathering speed. Having way too much of one versus the others. I know that fast answer would be get gud and be more equal. But if that happen, is it good to use the market building to buy/sell ressources to equal them up? Or is it a loss too great?
Great Video! I loved the more mathmatical approach. I never got myself to do the maths myself in AoM even though I have been playing it casually all my life and I enjoy maths. Let's see if I got my homework right ... Based on my calculations it would need 11 villagers on food and 12 on gold to sustain a constant production of more villagers, hoplites and Hippeus. It requires 7.5 food per second for Hoplites and Hippeus, and another 3.33 f/s for the villager which means a gatherinig rate of 10.83f/s which requires 11 food-villagers. On Gold it requires 10 g/s, but with a reduced gathering rate of .85g/s we need roughly 12 gold-villagers. Any mistakes?
Thank you for the confirmation! I mainly play Norse, with some Egyptians every now and then. All my life I just followed my gut feeling. This worked fine when in the past I would almost always only play against a horde of AI and only casual multiplayer against my friends. But now I'm retold I can see that my usual playstyles still gets me pretty far, but at some point I'm just losing the games because my enemies have more troops ready because their eco-balance is much better. After this video you gave me the motivation to go ahead and do some of the math for the Norse myself and see how it will go! Keep up the great work. I'm loving educational videos and between this great tips video (can't wait for the advanced tips you teased) and your casts I'm learning a lot. Your casts are also really fun to watch!
@@yuyurolfer you forgot the part that you are supposed to constantly train villagers always. So that's a prerequisite of playing the game. The military costs are on top.
So if you want a rough rule of thumb you could say that you need 4 food villagers to constanly produce 1 unit every 12-15 seconds. The same applies for the gold Costs - roughly. So you also need 4-5 villagers per 50 Gold units Cost. So you could say every 50 Gold or food cost you need about 4 to 5 villagers as the costs vary on different units. So as an example: 50 food villager - 4 villager on food 50 food military unit and 80 gold - 4 villagers on food and 8 villagers on gold If you combine those you need 8 villager on food and 8 on gold to pump out that military unit and also the villagers. I like to memorize the villager amount for a set amount. Example: 50 food in 12sec - 4.16 food per second = 4 villagers with 1f/s 50 gold in 12 sec - 4.16 gold per second = 5 villagers on gold With that rule of thumb you can just multiply roughly. So if you want to pump out villagers from 2 town centers and also 2 military units with a food cost of 50 and gold cost of 80 gold you need: 150 food per 12 seconds and 160 gold per 12 seconds with 12 villagers on food and 16 villagers on gold This math is not accurate but a rough rule of thumb with 50 gold/food as a guideline. So you wont have to calculate ingame just multiply. Of course train time and costs vary a little so just put 1 or 2 villager more in doubt Correct?
Quick question, how this build order works with the norse ? Because they can't build the gatherer builds, they use oxes that need food to produce. Its a dumb question but I seriously need to know this ( and say hello to your public from Brazil ).
Other thing, I didn't played aom retold yet, I just played the old mytology, so I don't know with there was any changes in the norse's( and sorry for the poor english ).
I would recommend to look at Magic's build order guides, but the same principles of income vs spending apply. Thor: th-cam.com/video/bYA6IO5bKS0/w-d-xo.html Odin: th-cam.com/video/mWj1IyIIRoo/w-d-xo.html Loki: th-cam.com/video/k45PhrzMj_0/w-d-xo.html
You're very welcome. To disable ability autocasts, you need to right click them or use alt-Q or whatever the ability hotkey is. Every. Single. Unit. I hope they include some option.
Okay but how do you figure out those production rates? Like if I'm generating gold from trading how do I know the rate at which I'm generating gold? It would be really nice if it told you next to your resources the rate at which you were gathering them per second not how many villagers are assigned.
The mathematical is most important early on where it can decide games. But this efficiency can be abandoned somewhere in the mid-game - definitely fine once you have 40+ villagers. Trying to calculate and managing that live would yield diminishing returns. If your rough spread between resources is about right, and you're able to keep spending, you're gonna be fine. In the late game looking at caravans, that is definitely gonna be mostly a spam fest with 15-20 production structures. Ideally you can keep up with the production, multiple fronts, idle management, micro, and building new structures. You do have to watch your resources for major imbalances (don't allow yourself to be gimped on one specific resource, and try not to float too much of any). TLDR: The mathematical efficiency is critical for the first 10 min, but after that, you can more or less just balance your income vs spending by feel and experience. Too many variables to flowchart it all!
How do you activate the red tracking marks that appear when you click to direct a Unit to move to a place. The red triangles from starting point to destination.
Hi Naka, great guide as always! I have a request btw, could you make a detailed analysis on the fast second TC? From what i'm seeing it's pretty difficult to make it work (probably this strategy isn't fully figured out yet), considering that the majority of players go for 1 TC fast aggression or fast Heroic, so as fast 2 TC there are a lot of issues to take care of, like skipping relics, not going for too far away hunts cause of no map control (that cause lack of food and then forces a fast farm transition that puts you in a way too behind position in order to defend an early atk), etc
Thank you! I won't be able to do proper analysis type videos until replays work. They all desync. There's a 2 TC game of mine I have scheduled for tomorrow though.
The priority is numbers > medium/heavy/champ upgrades > armory upgrades. I'd recommend having around 10 units to affect with the line upgrades before getting them. 20ish for armory upgrades as the effect is smaller.
Loved the video, thanks for it! What do you think about the auto management thing for the villagers? I know that is something "new" on AOE2 DE, and they have brought it to the AOM RE, but I think this one is still really buggy and I haven't been using it... Also, is it ok on the late game to stop creating villagers to focus on military when I reach around 100 + trade? Because the AutoQueue can be a downside in that moment in my opinion.
Thank you! I think auto management is awful and you should stay well clear if you want to play competitively. Don't stop your Villager production at 100 Villagers. In fact, you easily need 40-50 caravans on top of that once the gold mines are gone. Try to spend all the income you're getting instead.
Hi there! Thanks for guide. There is a question: how to make a block with resources info in the right corner of screen like in your video? I installed a mod, but the block is in a left corner and there no options to change it location.
The idea is to do the calculation in order to understand what you need to achieve with a build order. You do need your early game income to very closely reflect your spending for efficiency reasons. But this is supposed to come from memory and practice - no one does this on the fly while playing. As you enter the midgame where your economy is larger, you will be mostly playing by feel and reacting to things on the fly. Try to keep a good balance, don't hoard, but rather spend resources. That's about it!
There's a setting for "mouse walk paths" under "game" settings. If you're interested in more, I've got my detailed guide for settings right here: th-cam.com/video/eWMIi8OtfpA/w-d-xo.html
Two questions for you bro? I have a huge problem : I CANNOT see my control groups. I reset settings and also checked file integrity : I had it for one skirmish vs AI just to test couiple of sec, they are gone again. which setting do i need to check or uncheck to have them? At least I can see my Que now - i get like cursor that keeps on scrolling ALL THE way to some side i cant control it? just all of a sudden my mouse turns to some scroll thing i cant regain control for 3 sec
Hey, so the control groups being gone is a bug. I've seen it work if I don't enlarge my minimap, but so far only in single player. Hopefully this gets fixed soon. The cursor movement is caused by an unbelievably bad hotkey setup. They made it so that holding the right mouse button turns on panning mode, but also commands by default don't go through until you let go of the right mouse button, lol... Here is the part from my settings video that you need, but I recommend to look at the entire thing as there's many issues like that. th-cam.com/video/eWMIi8OtfpA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IfXjYQ4jJhNbbCva&t=1385
@@NakamuraRTS already watched it. Thats how I set up my key settings anyway . tnx. If you can tell me whats causing the right mouse padding mode let me know myb I'm missing smth in the vid. Tnx bro a lot , u typed a lot. I hope they fix the bug, worked for test game was AI doesn't work in Multi. :) Make sure to let know new players there is Right click AUTOQUE on technologies in advance and also that u can go to Age 3 with Market/Armory. Cheers great vids
He put a time stamp to the spot in the video where he talks about the incorrect hotkey that needs to be unbound. "Move Camera with Mouse" And yeah I also struggled with this until I watched the video, a real savior ...
ok so i did some math: *side note: i used Hippeus trainging time as 16 second, not 12 (was that the new patch?) i got (12 food, 10 gold) for the spread of vils I went with [ cost / time / gather rate ] (rate = 1 for food; 0.85 for gold) So vills = 3.33 food (and always round up) so 4 Hoplites = 5 food. 4 gold Hippeus = 3f 6g so 12f 10g i think
Hippeus are 16 sec. I think I messed up the video! But these things change all the time anyway, and the core concept is what matters. For example the toxotes was already changed to 15 sec.
@@NakamuraRTS i also went down a rabbit hole of using populaiton as a cost. vill 1, hop 2, hip 3.then equating that to vills per wood to make houses per how many units would come out. i gave up lol
@@NakamuraRTS such a good vid tho man. can't wait to see more! love the nitty-gritty math you can get down to in rts games, but if there's 2 greek heros and 3 centaurs in your base, it's all out the window! well not really. but you've gotta just balance your vlis in such a way to defend, etc. And this video i think explains the "why" you wanna/need to do that. good stuff!
At 06:25 you said it is optimal to use a gold villager for the house building and after that sentence you said use a wood villager to build a house. Which one :) ok you said gold villager should build temple and wood villager to build house 👍🏻
The second thing. Gold villager should build the temple, because you need to gather some more wood for the house in the meantime. Then a wood villager can sort out your house.
I actually have to disagree with the constant production of villagers for AOM retold. While this does hold true for a lot of rts games I believe that the map size is a factor that should be taking into consideration. On the smallest maps you have the least amount of resources. With just 25-50 villagers you could completely mine out your half of the map in 10-20 minutes considering many variables. While on the largest maps it actually makes more sense to produce the max amount (100) of villagers possible. As there is 3 to 4 times the resources available and you would reach a games result in a similar amount of time. You could absolutely abuse the concept of building 100 villagers on smaller maps due to infinite resources like farms or traders, but it's not just about the resources. You have to take into account the space you have to build. While I expect that those playing competitively for a living will exploit this flaw in the design, I wouldn't advise it for those just casually enjoying the game. Keep in mind certain fundamentals like scouting out the resources available. Knowing when to focus on a production that requires wood instead of food based on the resources naturally available. Managing your economy depending on your priorities instead of just putting more villagers on each resource. Even avoiding an overproduction on a single resource. Like 6 villagers on a herd of 9 deer. When in reality just 2 or 3 would deplete that resource in 10 minutes and you could split the other 6 between berries, chicken, and farms. From a practical standpoint, you should absolutely avoid idling your TC, but it definitely shouldn't be considered optimal.
I'm going to have to shut this nonsense down hard. This is an absolutely terrible opinion that could be harmful to others trying to learn the game. You are absolutely incorrect. More workers will gather more resources, which you then have to spend on military and even more economy. If you fall behind by a bunch of workers, you can definitely turn that around, but stopping production because you're worried of the map running dry is insanity. Even on the smallest maps it takes over an hour to run low on forests. Food is infinite via farming. Gold is infinite via trading. Limited space? Name a map where you can't place 20+ barracks-type buildings. Then calculate how many workers that requires to keep producing.
@NakamuraRTS I expected you to have such a negative response, but realize that it is a theory and not a fact. From my experience in many many strategy games that I have played from board games like chess to card games like poker, the size of the board or space often dictates your play. Even in a lot of turned based video games, this holds true. It is what we call structure, and it often ties hand in hand with strategy. At some point, you have to realize that it is a video game, and 100 villagers on some tiny little island makes no sense in the slightest. It is what is often referred to as tunnel vision. There is no real strategy, just a dog chasing a ball. Pure reaction based gameplay. Like one move threats on the chess board. I would suggest that anyone learning to play an rts should absolutely do what you suggested and never idle your TC. Only when you feel confident in the fundamentals should you consider experimenting with such ideas. Yes, you can build farms and traders for infinite resources of food and gold, but that in itself is a terrible concept to base your gameplay on. The natural resources on the map like deer, berries, and gold mines will deplete in 20-30 minutes with proper play. The number of villagers depends on the available resources. Each maps' natural resources changes based on the size with wood always staying as the most because there is no infinite supply. My point is that there is a reason why we have different map sizes. They aren't supposed to be played the same exact way. This becomes obvious for water maps, but gamers tend to be oblivious to the different sizes of land based maps. If this was StarCraft and each player only had 3 available mineral lines, you wouldn't build 90 workers. You have to optimize. The same concept should be applied here as it would add variety to the gameplay. Smaller maps would have smaller armies per minute, which is interesting because they also limit the TC's available, which caps your possible population. Again, this is just me theorizing, and I would only suggest this for casual players. You will not last long with the try hards with this concept in mind. They will absolutely spam 40 farms out of desperation for that W. It's sad to see, but that is the gameplay experience in multiplayer.
@@kingsgambit7098 The ONLY way you're depleting gold mines on the map in 20-30 minutes is if you literally tasked all 100 villagers on one specific task ironically. If you don't know the game that well you don't HAVE to offer advice, you saying oh send 2 villagers instead of 9 for the deer. The longer your villagers spend outside the TC area the more danger they're in ESPECIALLY in the early middle game. You want to exhaust those fast food bois first before you close in to do chickens/cattle and then farming just to avoid having to micromanage. And by that point you should have a lot of dudes with a LOT of wood for the farms. Even on a tiny map utilizing ideally 100 villagers gives you SUCH a broad range of continuous attacks and defenses as long as you expand to other TCs to get extra population for your army. Even on a tiny map you should be advancing to the next age as soon as possible, getting good armory upgrades, high spams of good raiding type units/upgrading them to wear down your opponent's villager count as much as possible, all these things depend on your economy, and getting in a good rhythm with it is what makes you ok vs great at the game. I got triggered by this because I Literally played a newbie person last night on a ranked 1v1 who I beat soundly only to realize in the post game summary that he only ever made 27 villagers, 9 for each resource, which was hilarious because he actually was clever with his attacks and micromanaged battles well, taking out like 3/4 of some dwarves I had sent to a gold mine in a risky spot. I was truly stunned when I just built up a big enough army in the late middle to send a big counter attack to try to put pressure back onto him and just utterly steamrolled him even though objectively he probably was better at army micromanaging than me, I was just spamming up to 88 villagers in that game and drowning his economy into dust. There is no possible way you've played this game with any credible experience. Also calling you out I could beat you at chess easy
@noahgeorge5583 I'm not claiming that I have done all the math as there are many variables to be considered, but I can absolutely guarantee that it doesn't take much to mine out the resources. That much I have considered. For example, it only takes 2 villagers with the Greeks to deplete 1200 food from deer in 10 minutes. Even 8 with max out economic upgrades for a gold mine with 6k can deplete it within 10 minutes. That same 8 could empty 3k gold with no upgrades in under 8 minutes. The reality is that this is basic math and when you consider that the smallest maps have somewhere around 15k in gold and 5k in food a piece. There is no reason that you shouldn't be able to mine it out within the average game length with less than 100 villagers, but yeah, clearly I haven't thought about it, right?! The problem is that you are incompetent and lack the capability to come up with an original thought. Actually make an effort to keep an open mind. It is a simple algebraic equation. Map size ( space & resources) ÷ Civ/villagers= game length. I couldn't tell you what the average game length is as that requires statistics that I don't have or just playing on the largest map with 100 villagers might give a reasonable idea. It could be 45 minutes or 15. The amount of villagers would obviously vary. Take into consideration that rts games have one of the lowest player bases. This is obviously because it is not casual player friendly. Introducing a concept where some maps (small) would allow them to play with a low villager count and still have a reasonable experience while the biggest maps require the maxed amount is a better concept than spamming 100 villagers just because you can. This offers a better solution to gameplay than an auto que villager or a priority wheel. It also offers more variety than what currently exists. Considering the fact that you are repeating a method that has been known for over a decade and getting emotional when someone gives a better solution tells me everything I need to know about your capability over the chess board. I would walk circles around you in every aspect of life. Both physically and mentally. I would do it with ridiculous ease.
Quick tip: you're pronouncing "wood" a lot like "food". It's really hard to understand since they're words differentiated by the consonant's sound. "Build the house with the fwood villager." I could only tell you meant the WOOD villager because you selected one.
You're right, you can't do this on the fly while playing. Which is why you need to memorize results, learn the build orders, and practice a ton until it all becomes second nature. You will get there!
7 minutes in, and to me this seems more like a guide of how to play according to your style than an economy guide. You can search the same thing on the internet and find people telling you to do stuff completely different from what you say here. Guess I will just have to learn on my own. Thanks for the effort though. A tip for you. Use TH-cam chapters to make navigating your video easy.
Great video, I appreciate you speaking in numbers, way easier to picture the economy when you think of just the minimum villager requirements per military building.
Glad it's helping mate!
As a new RTS player this fundemental video is amazing. The explanation of the question WHY, really helps instead of just dropping of some hard to understand build order for some random rush stratergy. Thanks! looking forward to this series
Very glad it's helping!
I played this a ton as a kid, coming back now i truly realize the challenges of the game at higher difficulties. My current tackle is trying to be on par or faster then the Hard AI in skirmishes as it seems to enter the classical era EXTREMELY quickly and then shortly after launches a soft attack which can be devastating to people behind. This video is pretty helpful at getting things moving abit better
Everything up to the Titan difficulty you can match for sure. Above that, the AI cheats. Good luck!
Love this guide, you have a great and calm style that's very enjoyable to watch. Please make more tutorials, you're really good at them!
Thanks, will do!
The 6v5 leaving 5 survivors is insane
There's some variability to it. If both sides focus fire perfectly, it would be more like 3 survivors, but still that's huge!
@@PhastosEnioyer it's totally insane. It gets crazier when you have the option to regen/heal your units at the frontline to proceed the attack
@@NakamuraRTS and 2 of them would have full health I suppose
Thanks for doing these videos dude! Look forward to the next in the series.
Glad you like them. More soon!
Thank you for this video! I have been exploring AoM, so nostalgic!! Appreciate the guide dude
I've been playing the game for a while now, but I was playing it casually, tried playing the AI in hard and couldn't win multiple times, but after watching your video and practicing my early game, I defeated the AI on hard massively. the things you teach made a huge improvement in my game. Thank you!
The last strategy game I played was "Seven Kingdoms AA, and that was 20 years ago! It's great to have a good video to get me back into the RTS genre again, thanks for the info!
Welcome back to RTS! It's about time!
So that's why the voice and face is familiar, I watched you on your Titanfall 2 deep dive videos as one of the devs. Thanks for this vid. I just started yesterday and played via Gamepass. Will definitely revisit this from time to time.
Love this. Thank you for your clarity and providing us with the fishing rod rather than just the fish.
Thanks for your comment. Hope you'll put these concepts to good use!
So, what do you think about the new villager priority tasks?
Stay well clear of it for competitive play. If you're just playing AI matches/campaign for fun, then whatever. But it's a terribly inefficient thing that anyone giving multiplayer a serious shot needs to turn off.
@@NakamuraRTS thanks!
Great video! We need more, keep them coming!
I keep thinking it's right but can't help feeling I'm forgetting something. For the homework it would equal to around 11 villagers on food and 12 on gold mines, is that right? I keep thinking it's too many villagers but then again, it's constant production 😅
Yes, you got it right! Remember, constant production is not necessarily something you can immediately achieve as you age up. Some gaps in production are ok while your eco is growing to the point of being able to fully support your buildings.
TYVM great video!!! Questions please 1) Why do my military troops keep dying when no enemies are near?
Excellent guide, explanations and points. Liked and subscribed, i hope you keep these up, very helpful.
Awesome, thank you! I will make more.
Is relying on auto que villagers sustainable for long term or is it somthing you want to get away from if your trying to get to the top level? And if it's somthing to get away from, if you're pushing to get to the top level, should you be even using it in the first place at lower levels?
Autoqueue on villagers is perfectly fine to rely on. In ranked play, you have to however get used to training military units manually. Pretty sure the vast majority of games are played without military AQ!
If you're trying to get good, don't use military AQ even in custom games.
@@Yojimbo991 From what I've seen watching high level games, most of the best players seems to use aq for villagers too!
Do you have mods installed? I like the blue circle and lines marking where theyre queued to travel to, like SC2
What's a good resource for finding some important math related things? That villager training time vs hunt gather rate was really useful.
Great video. I’d love to see the equivalent for the other civilizations, the Atlanteans in particular.
Thanks! So I won't be doing this format again, as the whole point is about the maths and core concepts, not giving direct instructions. I will eventually get to build orders, but in the meantime, I would recommend those posted by Magic: www.youtube.com/@IamMagicAOM/videos
You are the goat! Great video looking forward for the next ones ;)
Working on the next one for the weekend!
Always love your guides!
I appreciate that!
great video, taught me a lot as a new AoM player (though i have sunk 100 hours in already lol)
Glad I could help!
Awesome video! Looking forward for the next one 😊
Thank you! Should have one within the week.
Do you know if the levy tech researches stack?
Hello. Thanks for the guide. Really useful. I'm still a big newbie, so sorry if my question is dumb. I'm playing in hard in campaign right now, and a lot of time, i'm unequal on food gathering speed. Having way too much of one versus the others. I know that fast answer would be get gud and be more equal. But if that happen, is it good to use the market building to buy/sell ressources to equal them up? Or is it a loss too great?
Great work on this guide. Advanced econ video coming soon?
Thank you! But no, I will be working on guides about basics for the foreseeable.
Aeesome video, subscribed!
Great Video! I loved the more mathmatical approach. I never got myself to do the maths myself in AoM even though I have been playing it casually all my life and I enjoy maths.
Let's see if I got my homework right ... Based on my calculations it would need 11 villagers on food and 12 on gold to sustain a constant production of more villagers, hoplites and Hippeus.
It requires 7.5 food per second for Hoplites and Hippeus, and another 3.33 f/s for the villager which means a gatherinig rate of 10.83f/s which requires 11 food-villagers.
On Gold it requires 10 g/s, but with a reduced gathering rate of .85g/s we need roughly 12 gold-villagers.
Any mistakes?
Thanks very much - glad that you're looking at the numbers! Your math is correct.
Thank you for the confirmation!
I mainly play Norse, with some Egyptians every now and then. All my life I just followed my gut feeling. This worked fine when in the past I would almost always only play against a horde of AI and only casual multiplayer against my friends. But now I'm retold I can see that my usual playstyles still gets me pretty far, but at some point I'm just losing the games because my enemies have more troops ready because their eco-balance is much better.
After this video you gave me the motivation to go ahead and do some of the math for the Norse myself and see how it will go!
Keep up the great work. I'm loving educational videos and between this great tips video (can't wait for the advanced tips you teased) and your casts I'm learning a lot. Your casts are also really fun to watch!
9:01
Food: 10.88 f/s - 11-12 villagers
Gold: 10g/s - 12-13 villagers
🎉🎉🎉
Why do you add the food cost of the villagers to the food cost of the soldiers? I got:
7.5 f/s -> 8 vil
10.0 g/s -> 12 vil
@@yuyurolfer you forgot the part that you are supposed to constantly train villagers always. So that's a prerequisite of playing the game. The military costs are on top.
@@NakamuraRTS thanks!!
So if you want a rough rule of thumb you could say that you need 4 food villagers to constanly produce 1 unit every 12-15 seconds. The same applies for the gold Costs - roughly. So you also need 4-5 villagers per 50 Gold units Cost. So you could say every 50 Gold or food cost you need about 4 to 5 villagers as the costs vary on different units.
So as an example:
50 food villager - 4 villager on food
50 food military unit and 80 gold -
4 villagers on food and 8 villagers on gold
If you combine those you need 8 villager on food and 8 on gold to pump out that military unit and also the villagers.
I like to memorize the villager amount for a set amount.
Example:
50 food in 12sec - 4.16 food per second = 4 villagers with 1f/s
50 gold in 12 sec - 4.16 gold per second = 5 villagers on gold
With that rule of thumb you can just multiply roughly.
So if you want to pump out villagers from 2 town centers and also 2 military units with a food cost of 50 and gold cost of 80 gold you need:
150 food per 12 seconds
and
160 gold per 12 seconds
with
12 villagers on food
and
16 villagers on gold
This math is not accurate but a rough rule of thumb with 50 gold/food as a guideline.
So you wont have to calculate ingame just multiply.
Of course train time and costs vary a little so just put 1 or 2 villager more in doubt
Correct?
Quick question, how this build order works with the norse ? Because they can't build the gatherer builds, they use oxes that need food to produce. Its a dumb question but I seriously need to know this ( and say hello to your public from Brazil ).
Other thing, I didn't played aom retold yet, I just played the old mytology, so I don't know with there was any changes in the norse's( and sorry for the poor english ).
I would recommend to look at Magic's build order guides, but the same principles of income vs spending apply.
Thor: th-cam.com/video/bYA6IO5bKS0/w-d-xo.html
Odin: th-cam.com/video/mWj1IyIIRoo/w-d-xo.html
Loki: th-cam.com/video/k45PhrzMj_0/w-d-xo.html
Thanks alot! I learned alot ❤
Do you know if there is a setting that i can disable automatic hero/myth skills like the roar from the lion?
You're very welcome.
To disable ability autocasts, you need to right click them or use alt-Q or whatever the ability hotkey is. Every. Single. Unit.
I hope they include some option.
Okay but how do you figure out those production rates? Like if I'm generating gold from trading how do I know the rate at which I'm generating gold?
It would be really nice if it told you next to your resources the rate at which you were gathering them per second not how many villagers are assigned.
The mathematical is most important early on where it can decide games. But this efficiency can be abandoned somewhere in the mid-game - definitely fine once you have 40+ villagers. Trying to calculate and managing that live would yield diminishing returns. If your rough spread between resources is about right, and you're able to keep spending, you're gonna be fine.
In the late game looking at caravans, that is definitely gonna be mostly a spam fest with 15-20 production structures. Ideally you can keep up with the production, multiple fronts, idle management, micro, and building new structures. You do have to watch your resources for major imbalances (don't allow yourself to be gimped on one specific resource, and try not to float too much of any).
TLDR: The mathematical efficiency is critical for the first 10 min, but after that, you can more or less just balance your income vs spending by feel and experience. Too many variables to flowchart it all!
I do not have the arrows on the ground that you have in this vid when directing vills to different tasks, or directing troops?
You made this so easy to understand! Thank you!
Glad it's helping!
How u got your eco check on the bottom right to see were the vills are
Wait, why does one guy eat more food than a horse and their rider combined? Wtf. (Hoplite / Hippeus)
How do you activate the red tracking marks that appear when you click to direct a Unit to move to a place. The red triangles from starting point to destination.
Game Settings -> Mouse Walk Paths
@@NakamuraRTS Thank you SO much! I have played for so long and never used it. I'm bearly using it and its been of so much help.
Hi Naka, great guide as always!
I have a request btw, could you make a detailed analysis on the fast second TC? From what i'm seeing it's pretty difficult to make it work (probably this strategy isn't fully figured out yet), considering that the majority of players go for 1 TC fast aggression or fast Heroic, so as fast 2 TC there are a lot of issues to take care of, like skipping relics, not going for too far away hunts cause of no map control (that cause lack of food and then forces a fast farm transition that puts you in a way too behind position in order to defend an early atk), etc
Thank you!
I won't be able to do proper analysis type videos until replays work. They all desync.
There's a 2 TC game of mine I have scheduled for tomorrow though.
Can you answer if quantity of armies is more important than quality than army (upgrades or armor) respectively
The priority is numbers > medium/heavy/champ upgrades > armory upgrades. I'd recommend having around 10 units to affect with the line upgrades before getting them. 20ish for armory upgrades as the effect is smaller.
What are you calling medium/heavy/champ/line upgrade?
@@CiPims64 that is the overall upgrade for each unit type
Is it recommended to activate the K.I to gather ressources ?
Absolutely NOT mate, it's terrible. If you want to play competitively, you need to learn how to do it all yourself.
Loved the video, thanks for it!
What do you think about the auto management thing for the villagers? I know that is something "new" on AOE2 DE, and they have brought it to the AOM RE, but I think this one is still really buggy and I haven't been using it...
Also, is it ok on the late game to stop creating villagers to focus on military when I reach around 100 + trade? Because the AutoQueue can be a downside in that moment in my opinion.
Thank you! I think auto management is awful and you should stay well clear if you want to play competitively.
Don't stop your Villager production at 100 Villagers. In fact, you easily need 40-50 caravans on top of that once the gold mines are gone. Try to spend all the income you're getting instead.
Hi there! Thanks for guide. There is a question: how to make a block with resources info in the right corner of screen like in your video? I installed a mod, but the block is in a left corner and there no options to change it location.
See my settings guide, it covers this any many other UI things: th-cam.com/video/eWMIi8OtfpA/w-d-xo.html
@@NakamuraRTS thanks a lot!
Grea video! Please go on !!
Working on the next one!
How can I enable control groups to be visible? and Are you playing ranked? I cant use that UI in ranked :(
There's a bug with this. Only the small minimap version of the UI shows control groups atm. Hit the magnifying glass icon in the bottom right.
can i use cheat codes on with my friends?
why does your UI look different?
We are not expected to calculate these for every unique situation while playing right? It's memorizing and vibes of experience, RIGHT???
The idea is to do the calculation in order to understand what you need to achieve with a build order. You do need your early game income to very closely reflect your spending for efficiency reasons. But this is supposed to come from memory and practice - no one does this on the fly while playing.
As you enter the midgame where your economy is larger, you will be mostly playing by feel and reacting to things on the fly. Try to keep a good balance, don't hoard, but rather spend resources. That's about it!
How do you get those movement indicators?
There's a setting for "mouse walk paths" under "game" settings.
If you're interested in more, I've got my detailed guide for settings right here: th-cam.com/video/eWMIi8OtfpA/w-d-xo.html
Two questions for you bro?
I have a huge problem : I CANNOT see my control groups. I reset settings and also checked file integrity : I had it for one skirmish vs AI just to test couiple of sec, they are gone again. which setting do i need to check or uncheck to have them? At least I can see my Que now
- i get like cursor that keeps on scrolling ALL THE way to some side i cant control it? just all of a sudden my mouse turns to some scroll thing i cant regain control for 3 sec
I did a reset on my settings already and it only fixed control group problem for ONE game wtf
Hey, so the control groups being gone is a bug. I've seen it work if I don't enlarge my minimap, but so far only in single player. Hopefully this gets fixed soon.
The cursor movement is caused by an unbelievably bad hotkey setup. They made it so that holding the right mouse button turns on panning mode, but also commands by default don't go through until you let go of the right mouse button, lol...
Here is the part from my settings video that you need, but I recommend to look at the entire thing as there's many issues like that. th-cam.com/video/eWMIi8OtfpA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IfXjYQ4jJhNbbCva&t=1385
@@NakamuraRTS already watched it. Thats how I set up my key settings anyway . tnx. If you can tell me whats causing the right mouse padding mode let me know myb I'm missing smth in the vid. Tnx bro a lot , u typed a lot.
I hope they fix the bug, worked for test game was AI doesn't work in Multi. :) Make sure to let know new players there is Right click AUTOQUE on technologies in advance and also that u can go to Age 3 with Market/Armory. Cheers great vids
He put a time stamp to the spot in the video where he talks about the incorrect hotkey that needs to be unbound. "Move Camera with Mouse"
And yeah I also struggled with this until I watched the video, a real savior ...
@@ooga-k1g tnx managed to do it
ok so i did some math:
*side note: i used Hippeus trainging time as 16 second, not 12 (was that the new patch?)
i got (12 food, 10 gold) for the spread of vils
I went with [ cost / time / gather rate ] (rate = 1 for food; 0.85 for gold)
So vills = 3.33 food (and always round up) so 4
Hoplites = 5 food. 4 gold
Hippeus = 3f 6g
so 12f 10g i think
(if Hippos train in 12 seconds not 16, it should be 13f 12g)
Hippeus are 16 sec. I think I messed up the video! But these things change all the time anyway, and the core concept is what matters. For example the toxotes was already changed to 15 sec.
@@NakamuraRTS i also went down a rabbit hole of using populaiton as a cost. vill 1, hop 2, hip 3.then equating that to vills per wood to make houses per how many units would come out. i gave up lol
@@NakamuraRTS such a good vid tho man. can't wait to see more! love the nitty-gritty math you can get down to in rts games, but if there's 2 greek heros and 3 centaurs in your base, it's all out the window! well not really. but you've gotta just balance your vlis in such a way to defend, etc. And this video i think explains the "why" you wanna/need to do that. good stuff!
At 06:25 you said it is optimal to use a gold villager for the house building and after that sentence you said use a wood villager to build a house. Which one :) ok you said gold villager should build temple and wood villager to build house 👍🏻
The second thing. Gold villager should build the temple, because you need to gather some more wood for the house in the meantime. Then a wood villager can sort out your house.
@@NakamuraRTS yeah you are right, thanks for the detailed content 👍🏻
can someone tell me why Berry bush *CONTAIN MEAT* ???
Well, too bad my APM totally sucks. I am so quickly overwhelmed during the middle and end game and I end up stockpiling tons of resources.
@@Uberskull everyone's apm sucks when they start/learn. It takes hundreds or even thousands of games to consistently have 200-300 apm.
I actually have to disagree with the constant production of villagers for AOM retold. While this does hold true for a lot of rts games I believe that the map size is a factor that should be taking into consideration. On the smallest maps you have the least amount of resources. With just 25-50 villagers you could completely mine out your half of the map in 10-20 minutes considering many variables. While on the largest maps it actually makes more sense to produce the max amount (100) of villagers possible. As there is 3 to 4 times the resources available and you would reach a games result in a similar amount of time.
You could absolutely abuse the concept of building 100 villagers on smaller maps due to infinite resources like farms or traders, but it's not just about the resources. You have to take into account the space you have to build. While I expect that those playing competitively for a living will exploit this flaw in the design, I wouldn't advise it for those just casually enjoying the game. Keep in mind certain fundamentals like scouting out the resources available. Knowing when to focus on a production that requires wood instead of food based on the resources naturally available. Managing your economy depending on your priorities instead of just putting more villagers on each resource. Even avoiding an overproduction on a single resource. Like 6 villagers on a herd of 9 deer. When in reality just 2 or 3 would deplete that resource in 10 minutes and you could split the other 6 between berries, chicken, and farms.
From a practical standpoint, you should absolutely avoid idling your TC, but it definitely shouldn't be considered optimal.
I'm going to have to shut this nonsense down hard. This is an absolutely terrible opinion that could be harmful to others trying to learn the game. You are absolutely incorrect.
More workers will gather more resources, which you then have to spend on military and even more economy. If you fall behind by a bunch of workers, you can definitely turn that around, but stopping production because you're worried of the map running dry is insanity.
Even on the smallest maps it takes over an hour to run low on forests.
Food is infinite via farming.
Gold is infinite via trading.
Limited space? Name a map where you can't place 20+ barracks-type buildings. Then calculate how many workers that requires to keep producing.
@NakamuraRTS I expected you to have such a negative response, but realize that it is a theory and not a fact. From my experience in many many strategy games that I have played from board games like chess to card games like poker, the size of the board or space often dictates your play. Even in a lot of turned based video games, this holds true. It is what we call structure, and it often ties hand in hand with strategy.
At some point, you have to realize that it is a video game, and 100 villagers on some tiny little island makes no sense in the slightest. It is what is often referred to as tunnel vision. There is no real strategy, just a dog chasing a ball. Pure reaction based gameplay. Like one move threats on the chess board.
I would suggest that anyone learning to play an rts should absolutely do what you suggested and never idle your TC. Only when you feel confident in the fundamentals should you consider experimenting with such ideas.
Yes, you can build farms and traders for infinite resources of food and gold, but that in itself is a terrible concept to base your gameplay on. The natural resources on the map like deer, berries, and gold mines will deplete in 20-30 minutes with proper play. The number of villagers depends on the available resources. Each maps' natural resources changes based on the size with wood always staying as the most because there is no infinite supply.
My point is that there is a reason why we have different map sizes. They aren't supposed to be played the same exact way. This becomes obvious for water maps, but gamers tend to be oblivious to the different sizes of land based maps. If this was StarCraft and each player only had 3 available mineral lines, you wouldn't build 90 workers. You have to optimize. The same concept should be applied here as it would add variety to the gameplay. Smaller maps would have smaller armies per minute, which is interesting because they also limit the TC's available, which caps your possible population.
Again, this is just me theorizing, and I would only suggest this for casual players. You will not last long with the try hards with this concept in mind. They will absolutely spam 40 farms out of desperation for that W. It's sad to see, but that is the gameplay experience in multiplayer.
@@kingsgambit7098 The ONLY way you're depleting gold mines on the map in 20-30 minutes is if you literally tasked all 100 villagers on one specific task ironically. If you don't know the game that well you don't HAVE to offer advice, you saying oh send 2 villagers instead of 9 for the deer. The longer your villagers spend outside the TC area the more danger they're in ESPECIALLY in the early middle game. You want to exhaust those fast food bois first before you close in to do chickens/cattle and then farming just to avoid having to micromanage. And by that point you should have a lot of dudes with a LOT of wood for the farms. Even on a tiny map utilizing ideally 100 villagers gives you SUCH a broad range of continuous attacks and defenses as long as you expand to other TCs to get extra population for your army. Even on a tiny map you should be advancing to the next age as soon as possible, getting good armory upgrades, high spams of good raiding type units/upgrading them to wear down your opponent's villager count as much as possible, all these things depend on your economy, and getting in a good rhythm with it is what makes you ok vs great at the game.
I got triggered by this because I Literally played a newbie person last night on a ranked 1v1 who I beat soundly only to realize in the post game summary that he only ever made 27 villagers, 9 for each resource, which was hilarious because he actually was clever with his attacks and micromanaged battles well, taking out like 3/4 of some dwarves I had sent to a gold mine in a risky spot. I was truly stunned when I just built up a big enough army in the late middle to send a big counter attack to try to put pressure back onto him and just utterly steamrolled him even though objectively he probably was better at army micromanaging than me, I was just spamming up to 88 villagers in that game and drowning his economy into dust.
There is no possible way you've played this game with any credible experience. Also calling you out I could beat you at chess easy
@noahgeorge5583 I'm not claiming that I have done all the math as there are many variables to be considered, but I can absolutely guarantee that it doesn't take much to mine out the resources. That much I have considered. For example, it only takes 2 villagers with the Greeks to deplete 1200 food from deer in 10 minutes. Even 8 with max out economic upgrades for a gold mine with 6k can deplete it within 10 minutes. That same 8 could empty 3k gold with no upgrades in under 8 minutes.
The reality is that this is basic math and when you consider that the smallest maps have somewhere around 15k in gold and 5k in food a piece. There is no reason that you shouldn't be able to mine it out within the average game length with less than 100 villagers, but yeah, clearly I haven't thought about it, right?!
The problem is that you are incompetent and lack the capability to come up with an original thought. Actually make an effort to keep an open mind. It is a simple algebraic equation. Map size ( space & resources) ÷ Civ/villagers= game length. I couldn't tell you what the average game length is as that requires statistics that I don't have or just playing on the largest map with 100 villagers might give a reasonable idea. It could be 45 minutes or 15. The amount of villagers would obviously vary.
Take into consideration that rts games have one of the lowest player bases. This is obviously because it is not casual player friendly. Introducing a concept where some maps (small) would allow them to play with a low villager count and still have a reasonable experience while the biggest maps require the maxed amount is a better concept than spamming 100 villagers just because you can. This offers a better solution to gameplay than an auto que villager or a priority wheel. It also offers more variety than what currently exists.
Considering the fact that you are repeating a method that has been known for over a decade and getting emotional when someone gives a better solution tells me everything I need to know about your capability over the chess board. I would walk circles around you in every aspect of life. Both physically and mentally. I would do it with ridiculous ease.
Quick tip: you're pronouncing "wood" a lot like "food". It's really hard to understand since they're words differentiated by the consonant's sound. "Build the house with the fwood villager." I could only tell you meant the WOOD villager because you selected one.
There's no way you can do all these in 2 minutes, i'm always starved on food, not enough villager on time, etc
You're right, you can't do this on the fly while playing. Which is why you need to memorize results, learn the build orders, and practice a ton until it all becomes second nature. You will get there!
Dora the Tactician, teach me more pls
Well now I'm not doing it 🐧
I prefered when they were called hippikons, hippeus sound weirder
I still call them Hippikons like 70% of the time.
7 minutes in, and to me this seems more like a guide of how to play according to your style than an economy guide. You can search the same thing on the internet and find people telling you to do stuff completely different from what you say here. Guess I will just have to learn on my own. Thanks for the effort though. A tip for you. Use TH-cam chapters to make navigating your video easy.
1/10 compared to the original
I don't know why but I keep getting unsubscribed from you
Hacks!
Oh my gods!
Awesome video!
How’d you get your control groups to physically show in the top left corner? I think mine disappeared with the last update 🫠
Thanks! The control group stuff being gone is a bug. I think you need the small minimap size and a game restart.
can someone tell me why Berry bush *CONTAIN MEAT* ???