240V Single Phase to 415V 3 Phase Inverter, YouTube Policy Change, Finally Running the Victor Lathe.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- I discuss a change in TH-cam's Advertising Policy and how it affects my Channel and many others like mine. I also get the Victor Lathe up and running with a new to market 240v Single Phase straight to 415V Three Phase Inverter.
www.aliexpress...
Made by - Nflixin
Mine is the 7.5Kw, 220V - 380V, 9100 series Inverter.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice job Cam. You are looking good. All the Best from the US. This expands the potential to pick up some older machinery. Thanks for sharing.
G'Day Bruce, as I mentioned this could be a real game changer for those of us with small hobby workshops who want to run 415V 3 phase. As you say, we can now look at older gear that previously we would need to look at converting into single phase.
Cam
Respect on you being a bloke with integrity . 🤝
Hello Cam,
Good to see the Victor running and the inverter sounds interesting.... my Deckel is 3 phase, which would be a lot easier if it was standard 240v.
Take care.
Paul,,
G'Day Paul, yep these 415V 3 Phase Inverters are great. No need to by a specific motor that can be re-worked to a Delta configuration. Just takes a bit of time to understand the programming format but after the initial learning curve its all quite simple.
Cam
Well done on the conversion. I've done the same with a Colchester Bantam lathe and Deckel FP1 milling machine, both with 2 speed motors, retaining the machine controls exactly as you have. I agree totally with your statement that these inverters are a game changer for the home workshop - particularly at the prices they are available at.
G'Day Phil, not only do they allow us to run in 415V 3 phase but they are relatively cheap. Was wondering how a I was going to run the motors on my Hercus Tool and Cutter grinder. This has made it a no brainer.
Cam
I'm in the same boat as you, and allowed ads on my channel too. I figure if they're going to anyway, I might as well get something small out of it. That and we can limit the number and types of ads. As for the VFD, nicely set up! Thinking of converting my 1-phase lathe to 3-phase with VFD at some point, the speed control would be very handy.
Thanks Cam. I thought it was impossible to get a VFD that would output 415v from 240V without a boost transformer. I tried last year and couldn't find anything. Maybe I'll get around to doing this on my Colchester.
G'Day Mark, it really changes the power landscape in our small shops. As I mentioned this is only a recent development and one I'm keen to follow up on with my Hercus No 2 Tool and Cutter Grinder. Another restoration I'll get around to one day.
Cam
Feel free to monetize your channel Cam. I pay for TH-cam premium and never see adds. My other DCT channel is monetized. However recently Google has decided to place adds on any channel as they see fit. Also they made me fill out USA tax forms to pay tax in the USA. Regardless that I declare the money I make and pay tax on it in Australia.
Nice inverter CAM. I went with a rotary phase converter predominately for my CNC machine. It’s an 8kw unit and runs my entire shop. It doesn’t use that much power on idle. Yours seems to work just fine. The variable speed is a bonus. Cheers 🍻. Aaron
G'Day Aaron, yes you certainly need a true stable 3 phase signal for a CNC with that power so Rotary is the way to go. I would love to see how stable this is with a smaller CNC, maybe one day.
Cam
Yep YT changed the policy back in November of last year. Because of that I monetized just so I could control the ads. I have it set up so they can't put ads in during my video. They are only allowed at the beginning and end and also you can skip them too. Something to think about Cam if ads do start to pop up.
Always good to have a friend electrician :-)
The speed control is a nice upgrade.
Thanks Rusty, yea the remote speed control is a real bonus. So far its all working really well.
Cam
Awesome work Cam! I like the way you wired into the contactors. Thank you for sharing this. I use vfds for anything needing 3 phase power. Seems at this point a better alternative. Good to see the step up type working too.
Yes lets hope its a robust unit and performs for years to come. Yep, have the Relays under power to activate when the Froward/Reverse lever is used and send the signal through to the Inverter allows the machine to run in its normal function. Makes it so much easier to operate without needing to access the touch screen all the time.
Cam
Thanks for sharing this info. This is the first time I have seen an inverter being able to generate three phase and transform the voltage. I was wondering when they would come out with this. Unfortunately this will not work in North America hopefully there will be something become available here that will allow a 240V split phase to be converted to three phase 440V. My 10 kW rotary phase converter and transformer cost more then twice as much to built so the price is very reasonable. Great to see the Victor up and running, you've done a nice job.
Just been looking in to all this myself and came to the same conclusion and will be ordering one of these shortly. The issue I was having, was with whether I need a breaking resistor or not. I'm only needing one for a gear head drill with dual speed motor with tapping capabilities, which means quick stop start or quick change in direction.
G'Day Mark, that was one of the questions I asked the supplier on a number of occasions, could I use a breaking resistor on this unit in the single phase configuration. The answer was always no. I also checked this with my good mate Pete who is a drives engineer, he was of the same opinion. You will find when you get the unit, the literature shows it can be configured, but there are many anomalies in the manual and it is a duel voltage unit. Let me know if you find a way around it, I'd be very interested.
Cam
Nice lathe Cam, looks the same as Adam Booths lathe, aka Abom 79.
I fitted 5 VFD's in my shop, no 3 phase power available, to my lathes, mil and compressor.
220V single phase input to 220V 3 phase output.
Discarded the power sucking inefficient single phase motor's which were also prone to run capacitor failures.
New one to me achieving 415V from 220V supply, the drive must have a voltage doubler circuit on the DC bus.
Just a word of caution, try to avoid using the E stop or foot pedal, the drive will generate a high voltage spike wich can damage the IGBT's.
Looking forward seeing the lathe in action.
The power of Google and ever increasing greed!
G'Day Willem, yes totally agree on the E-Stop and foot brake but the E-Stop in only when things are in dire straights. I do use the Foot Brake at times when I'm threading up to a shoulder but its at low speed and only very occasionally. These are only new to the market so I'm interested to see how they perform over time. The Nflixin techs run each one on a load test frame for 24Hrs before they are packaged so I would expect any infantile failures to be identified then.
Cam
You spoke about running the motor at 2hz and I wanted to make sure you are aware that running a motor at lower speeds (when it isn't designed for this) can mean that the motor's cooling fan won't run at full efficiency. A combination of the lathe's gears and the speed control can overcome this so that the frequency is kept high enough (say +/- 20-25%) and hence the cooling of the fan works correctly. If, on the other hand, the lathe was designed for variable speed then you won't have problem but I've heard of burned out motors where low frequency and high load have been used. At least initially it would be worth your while to keep an eye on the motor temperature.
G'Day Neil, absolutely agree. I only mentioned the 2hz to show what these drives are capable of. I have designed many process machine lines in my career which use AC motors with drives and encoder position feed back to set a deceleration to stop and hold a given position. Forced cooling is a must in these designs because as you say they will burn out with long exposure under this type of use. All my machines run thru Inverters and at times I do drop down into the 5 - 10 hz range for slow speed particularly on my Milling Machine Slotting attachment. This is only for short periods as I'm aware of the overheating issues that can occur.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 I thought you might be aware of the dangers but I wasn't sure if your audience were and while it's great to have these modern inverters it is important to know about the limitations. Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge with us. Regards Neil
@@neillawson4493 Agreed. That's why it's better the way he's done it by retaining the machine's mechanical speed controls.
Nice job. I have the Surface Grinder, Shaper and Mill all on such 240-1p to 315-3p VFD's here in NZ. Works a treat and having the ability to tweak speeds on the Mill and Shaper rocks. If you use the VFD in V/F mode then you can actually have a switch to flick between the 4 and 8 pole connections. I use this on the Mill. You have to stop the motor, wait for it all to stop before switching the pole connection. But if does work and its rather convenient. I didn't want to risk vector control as the motors are all a bit old. Also not all the VFDs in my position have it. Cheapie ones. :-)
Cheers.
Hi James, thanks for the tip on the 4 - 8 pole switch over. I have wondered about the ability to run both poles out of the same Inverter but thought that as part of the parameter set-up for the inverter you can chose either 4 pole or 8 pole not both. So in V/F mode this parameter is not an issue? I'm keen to try it out.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 If you are getting the full range of power under vector control and the motor is up for it (ie insulation on the windings is good) then vector control is supposed to be superior. Under vector control you have to lock to a single spec as it does a bunch of clever tuning to the motor. Under V/F that doesn’t happen. At least not on my unit. Happy to share learnings. Do you have a link to an online manual for your model?
Hi Cam, how would I make this work with a 3 phase machine that runs on 415v and it has a 3 phase twist lock plug and the machine runs on 4 different motors?
Hi Cam, could you pretty please answer my question?
Sorry for the late reply. Just back from two weeks holiday in Queensland.
The rule is typically one motor to one drive. The drive needs to be configured to the individual specifications of the motor. As far as the plug goes I only hard wire the VFD into the motor. I also program in all the functions and run the wiring for start/ stop, forward/reverse, jog, e-stop, speed control etc. This allows me to have the lathe or mill run of the original control buttons
Looks like you got it working great !
All you need now is one of those cheap tacho units to tell you the spindle rpm.
Hi Ian, I've ordered a longer ribbon cable so I can mount the display where I can see it. I tend to machine on feel rather than RPM, always done it this way back when I was a machinist. I'm now running in the 8 pole configuration and over speeding to enable the top speed of 1800 RPM in high gear. So its now running top speed at 100Hz so running at 50Hz is half speed so its fairly easy to get an idea on the speed based on the Hz on the display and the speed I've selected on the gearbox.
Cam
My lathes do not have an oil pump in the headstock, splash lubrication that feed the spindle bearings and if I run them less than 30 Hz the oil is not flung high enough to fill the troughs that feed the spindle bearings.
I assume the Victor would have an oil pump like my old DSG that I reluctantly sold when I moved overseas
G'Day Willem, yes that is a concern I have on this lathe as it is splash lubrication feeding an oil trough in the top of the Head Stock. This is the same on my Hi-Power lathe as well. If I am running for a period of time at a slow speed I will run at full speed occasionally to feed the oil trough to lubricate the Head Stock Bearings. I haven't had any bearing issues since I install new ones when I purchased the machine 7-8 years ago. I'm hoping the same regime will work on the Victor.
Cam
Great video Cam
I love that you maintained all of the E-stop features like needing to put the lever in neutral after resetting. Was that all done with programming in the vfd unit, or was there additional circuitry?
It is one of the things I'm trying to work out before upgrading my lathe to 3 phase
G'day Tom, hitting the e-stop kills the power to the relays. The second there is no signal from the forward and reverse relays to the inverter the inverter stops the motor. There was no programing involved to achieve this.
Cam
Hey Cam love your work! I have 3hp Herless Turret mill and need one of these three phase inverter to set up in my new abode. Do you know what size Frequency converter I should order 2.2KW???
Hi Steve, did you complete this upgrade. What kw did you endup going with?
I only ask because I'm looking to do the same upgrade/ conversion.
Thanks
Eugene
Your right . That is a game changer .how does the VSD go when you load up the machine I have tried this with other VSDs only to have them trip on over temp or over load but what you have there is a goer I think
You did not say how bad the hand book for that make of inverter is. Have they replaced it because the one that comes with the inverter here in the UK is practically indecipherable.
Great vid and good to see an Aussie here, question if you dont mind i have normal single phase 240v in my sjed but have acces to cheap 3 phase 380-415v vfd air conditioner can i use one of these to run that?
If it were me, given it blew up and caught fire I wouldn't. I would imagine you aren't going to be standing next to the drive while it's running. Given that if it does fail your not going to know about it. It could end badly. I'm assuming given you are asking you can't run the motor in a delta 240v 3 phase configuration.
Cam
@camatbattler2233 I'm not sure about ghe 240v route i don't have it I've just I've found a cree 22kw multi head system very cheap and was trying to work out if i could make it work thanks for your reply
Hi, I wonder whether you can help me. I want to do the same thing to my Colchester 2000. But when I ask people about these VDF you can’t get 380 V out of a 220 in, but your video shows that you can is this correct? Be most appreciated for any help, cheers Ian.
Yep, you certainly can get the VFD'S that will go from 240V single phase direct to 415V 3 phase. I bought it through Aliexpress. However if you look in my later video it blew up and caught fire. It could be that I modified when the cooling fans to came on with a temp sensor.
I have since gone back to the traditional 240V 3 phase VFD. Unfortunately I had to purchase a new motor that would run on 240V 3 phase as the exiting one would only do 415V.
Cam
Hello Cam from the uk.
I’ve just got myself an old Colchester master lathe and need to get it running, I want to keep the old motor, that can’t be run on delta, so need a vfd, that can use 240v to 3 phase 440v star (y).
Have you got your motor running in star (y) and would the vfd that you are using be the right one for my needs?
My motor is a 3hp unit.
Thanks. Dave.
G'day Dave, yep you can certainly run the motor in 440 V star. That's what attracted me to it in the first place. My lathe was a two speed 8 pole, 4 pole mootor and couldn't be run in delta. As for size, the supplier recommended selecting the next size up from the motor rating so what I used would be fine for your application if not a bit of overkill. You cannot run a motor reliably if the VFD is undersize.
Cam
hi Cam...thanks for your video!...I am trying to understand why you did not connect directly the 380v 3ph output of the inverter, to the machine's cable? What is the problem and you avoided this easy way? (i am asking because i want to install a device like this to my new lathe)...Regards!
G'Day km, bit lost there. The right side R/S 6mm cable is the 240V single phase, the left site is the 3 Phase 415V to the motor. Let me know on the time sink in the video where it shows I've connected the motor incorrectly.
Cam
These inverters are commonly known as VFDs. Yes, there are few different versions of VFDs some limit voltage, some limit phases. But these seem to be the best bang for buck.
Yep, it was good until it went bang and caught fire. Check out one of my latest videos for the story.
Cam
Great video Cam l wish that l had seen this video of yours before l had converted my old Aciera F3 milling machine, the Original machine was two speed star/ delta configuration 440volts only. 1425-960 rpm, l have made an adapter plate and had to off set the motor from the mounting carrier. This is causing vibrations problems. I think that l will end up refitting the original motor and buy a VFD to solve the problems. Life is a leaning curve, l will try to locate the type that you have , any help you can give me would be great. Regards Gary
Ahh ok thanks that’s a really shame my lathe doesn’t have a brake or clutch some vfds are extremely slow at slowing the spindle down to a stop . This is why I wanted to know if it had a brake that could be added
I have tried to push the deceleration function to speed the slow down, it goes so far but when pushed where it would make even a small difference causes the VFD to trip out.
Cam
how good/bad is the user manual?
Hello Cam, great job on your lathe. What horse power is your lathe and what is the model # of your VFD. Thanks in advance.
G'day George, it's an Nflixin model No - 9100-1T3-00750G. 7.5kw unit.
My lathe motor is 5.5kw. Always go to the next size up on the inverter.
Cam
Hi Cam, wondering how you are making out with the Nflixin after a year? Any problems you ran into?
G'day Ollie, I've had no problems at all with the VFD. Very happy with its performance.
Cam
Good to hear 😂
hi cam, thank you for your video. i have a lathe with a 2 speed ( 1338/670rpm) 3 phase motor . should i use the delta or Y connection to the vfd? many thanks
Hi Alberto, this is a 415V inverter so the motor is in the star winding configuration. Many other inverters will only output 240V 3 phase and you need to wire the motor in a delta configuration. My motor was a 2 speed and you can only run at one speed. I chose the 720 rpm taps and ran the inverter at 100hz.
Cam
thanks , why you choose the low speed and not the hi speed of the motor? thanks@@camatbattler2233
It seamed to run smother with the 720 rpm taps. At 100hz it gave me the true speed.
Cam
Hi Cam. Brilliant vid, perfect info and presentation for me, as I want to build a custom cnc mill to run at 7.5 kW 3 phase on UK 240v single phase, (didn't realise it was the same voltage in Oz!). I was looking at a vfd to do it all in one, but there is a lot of negative on forums about them being "off-brand Chinese crap that's not worth a carrott", and suggesting all kinds of cumbersome, expensive alternatives. Your vid is very reassuring, but I was just wondering how it has performed over time. Are you still as happy with it re reliability? Cheers.
Hi Steve, yep I'm very happy with the VFD. So far it has been flawless. I did do some major surgery on it though which required taking the drive board's out to access the fan wiring in the rear of the unit so I could mount two bimetallic switches, one for each fan. The fans run all the time and do get quite noisy so I have the switches mounted to the heat sink and come on at 45 degrees C. The speed does have very slight fluctuations so bear in mind that there is some instability but this has no effect on how the lathe performs. The motor in the lathe was a two speed so I am running of the 8 pole taps (750rpm) and set the VFD frequency to 100Hz to give the rated lathe name plate speeds.
Cam
How has this held up for you? I am getting one similar to run a 7.5kw 3 phase 380v spindle.
G 'day D Lewis, this unit has run extremely well and it has had a lot of constant use. The cooling fans can get a little loud when both are running. I fitted a couple of Bi-Metallic switches to the Heat Sink and wired into the units circuit. This was very difficult to do as I had to remove all the boards to get access. I have them set at different heat values, if I remember one is set at 45 degrees and the other at 50 degrees. Its very rare the second fan comes on and its only been in summer on hot days so the noise from the one fan is fine.
Cam
Hi there I’m wanting to buy one of these vfds has this got a brake resistor on it does seem to stop so much faster than a 220v 3 phase vfd thanks in advance
Hi Sean, if your running single phase 240V into the VFD you cannot fit a break resistor. This one of the questions I put to the OEM and was disappointed I couldn't resistance break.
Cam
Hi Cam, thank you for you great info. I looked up the VFD in the link you gave to MrScooty67 two weeks ago and the model of the VFD states that its output is 380V. Could you please tell me if you had to adjust it to be 415V or 380V will do for Australia 415V nominal 3 phase? Thank you.
G'Day Enzo, the 380v 3 Phase is nominal. I'm running mine at 415V. Can't remember if it is a change function in the programming. There is some programming required to set the drive up to suit your motors parameters.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 Great Cam, thank you for your quick reply to my question. One more question: is the VFD output configured for Y or Delta? The video I watched on their site shows only three wires going from the VFD to the three phase motor.
Thank you.
@@camatbattler2233Hi Cam, I forgot to ask if you can share a .pdf copy of the manual if possible please.
Thank you again.
If it's 415V it's Star. I'm using a 2 speed motor on the lathe and have it wired for the 860 RPM taps and running it at 100Hz. You cannot run a 2 speed motor with 240v 3 phase Delta. Definantly 4 wires to the motor and 3 in from the single phase. Flick me your email address and I'll forward on the manual.
Cam
Can you share to me the wiring connection of the VFD. Thanks!
Hi Roberto, I'm sorry but I don't give electrical advice or direction. If I make a mistake on my directions or advice and someone gets hurt I wouldn't forgive myself.
Cam
Hi Cam. I watched this video when it came out and was wondering if you were still satisfied with the unit you bought.
Hi Fanarof, yes very satisfied.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 Thanks very much. I’m looking to use one on a milling machine.
Hi Cam, could you tell me the Name and model of the VFD please i cant find one anywhere. Cheers.
This is the unit I purchased from Aliexpress -
www.aliexpress.com/item/10000404081162.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef18020YBR6Q
Its a 7.5 KW unit for a 5Hp motor.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 Cheers, just purchased one, coolarooni.
You don’t go into much detail about how you wired it up and what the problems were
I'm trying to find a cheap 240 to 415v converter. Does that one of yours go to 415 or only 380v ?
Thanks, Mal
It puts out 415V. The 380V is generic.
Cam
@camatbattler2233 thanks mate
@@camatbattler2233 I've bought 1 and plugged it in. It appears dead. Does it need something connected to the output before it will power up ?
Send me your email address and I'll send you a photo of my connections. Make sure you are hooking your single phase wires to the right connections and not to the 3 phase side. I did this originally and had the same issue.
Cam
Where do you buy it from
All info in the description including links and specs on what I purchased.
Cam
Great news for me ,,, maybe
so you wouldnt recommend this option then
OK, would I recommend this unit. Yes, but under certain conditions. The motor was a 7.5hp unit, probably the largest you would use in a standard domestic power supply. This thing creates an enormous amount of heat driving this size motor and I modified the cooling arrangement with the thermal switches. This may have been a trigger for the failure. I think this unit would probably be OK with a smaller motor.
Cam
awsome, I just picked up an old Harrison with 3hp 3phase motor, might have to give it a try
WOW 5 MIN OF NONSENSE CHATTER IS JUST AS BAD AS 5 MIN OF ADVERTISEMENT
Love it, are going to purchase one of these?
Hi im curious, in your opinion would these vfd's run into trouble when used for long continuous period of time. Example 12hours non stop?
I've run these things for over 14hrs. The VFD on my Milling Machine has been running for over 4 years and hasn't missed a beat. For my application so much better than a phase converter, it only draws power when the machine runs. A converter sits in the corner running constantly costing money and generating heat.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 hi cam, thanks so much for the reply. The reason i asked is because where I am, it would cost too much to install 3phase. I plan to use rootblower aerators for my shrimp tanks and the motor is 7.5kw. I was thinking of rotating 2 rootblowers in 12 hr shifts per day.
*.. **#INSTALL** AND USE "ADDBLOCK PLUS" = NO MORE "ADD" ANYWHERE ..*