My dad was a Whirley crane operator in Richmond, California way back during WW2. Many years later he finished his long Union career working back in Richmond running again, a Whirley crane. This time he was working at a scrapyard for Levin Metals. The Levin brothers were buying up ships from the mothball fleet that was anchored just east of the Martinez/Benicia Bridge. One day they had a ship delivered to their dock, this was in the 1970s. They didn't know what was in it and only bought it for the scrap value and relied on information from the government. All the ships were sealed and purged with nitrogen to stop the insides from rusting. When. they opened it and went in they were amazed ! The ship was a repair ship and it was full of every metal and woodworking machine they needed to repair the ships at sea. The brothers took inventory and went about selling all the huge metalworking, and woodworking machines nationwide.
Gavin, I did the VFD converting single phase to three phase on an Eisen branded Liang Dei 14x40 lathe from Taiwan. As a matter of fact, I recognize that electrical diagram because I used pretty much the same one (no doubt from the same MJ source). I had no electrical experience at all, so it was very much a case of drinking through a fire hose. The good news was that everything worked perfectly, except the intermittent coolant, which was just a simple error in the diagram that showed a normally closed switch instead of a normally open one. I had a spare switch, so it was a quick fix. The Hitachi VFD gave me the options of variable speed, jog fwd and reverse, coolant on/off/intermittent and fast/slow braking choices using the motor. I wanted all the electrical components located in the lathe itself, so I located the VFD on a sliding drawer in the left/hand pedestal. I converted both access panels to hinged doors and vented the one on the left hand pedestal to ensure the VFD fan could circulate enough air. All in all it was a big job sourcing all the components, figuring out how to fit them all in the available space, making sure all the wiring was perfect, routing the additional wiring and programming the VFD. But, now that it’s done, it was worth it. Never had any issues pop up. Everything just works the way it is supposed to. MJ did a great job on the wiring diagram and VFD programming guide. Variable speed is so nice because you can just use a couple of gears for pretty much everything. I never run the motor at full speed because it just seems unnecessary. Actually, all the added features are nice and I use them all, depending on what I’m doing.
Do you have any way of knowing what Hp values you are getting from using the VFD? Please don’t guess, if you don’t know, that’s cool. He said with the static phase converter you lose about 1/3 if the 3 Phase motor’s Hp. He didn’t mention much at all about the VFD because it was obvious that he knew nothing about it. Cheers, Michael
Ah, the term "Rotary Converter" brings back memories of waters long since passed under the bridge. I was the last person trained on rotary converter maintenance in our State here in Australia, back around the time Noah was looking at electricity for his ark. But these were AC - DC converters, not phase converters. Huge bloody things, some with commutators measuring 18ft in diameter and yokes 25 - 30ft in diameter, the smallest about 12ft yoke. All the insulation was either asbestos or mica and a general overhaul (not rebuild) of a unit took weeks. Just the thing for your workshop, lol, IF you want DC..... Sadly I'm the only one left of my old crew, the others all since passed from respiratory disease. The converter feed in transformers would split the 3 phase mains to either 6 or 12 phase to drive the synchronous motor to generate the DC, the units were run up to speed using DC "pony motors".... The units were huge, noisy mongrel (but very regal) bloody things, lmao!! These RC units were very robust and their last years were spent testing new DC CB capacities because they were much more robust than the Mercury Arc Rectifiers (also old school technology) and solid state SCRs that were replacing them (both). Just a quick story from years passed. Cheers from downunder mate 🙂 🇦🇺 🍺🍺
That is awesome! I bet it was the gopher wood used to make the equipment that caused the respiratory problems. I sold welding equipment back in the day and the smoothest DC arc was an old Lincoln motor generator, 800 pounds for 200 amps, but smooth as glass. 3 phase 460 volt @ 100 amps input cables as thick as a girls wrist.They used Dutchman blue tinted welding glass until they found it didn't really work.
thank you for the reply @@richspillman4191, yes the old lincolns were the standard of the day. Most of the older fellows passed from breathing in the asbestos mate. We were still using asbestos mats and replacing asbestos with asbestos even in the 70s. I only know of 3 survivors (me included) of that era who worked in the same locations. We'd have to tramp around in knee deep asbestos dust under the machines as we worked on them. Cheers my friend.
i know Im randomly asking but does any of you know a method to log back into an Instagram account? I was dumb forgot the login password. I appreciate any tricks you can offer me!
@Sage Gary Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm. I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Great vid as always. I'd love to see you do a virtual shop tour for us sometime. I'd love to see the whole thing - Not only the metal shop but the reloading side as well. Cheers!
I have a Sheldon T 1136 lathe. Has an three phase 220/440. Looking at using a vfd from 110 to run. I’m doing research and appreciate your video. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks
Nice explanation. I use to install FVD on large AC/Heating air handlers (15+ HP) as part of a energy savings package for commercial buildings. The concept was to slow down the motor in mild weather seasons
Thank you. I can only buy a VFD, it is cheaper and more readily available than a rotary converter. My 3-phase drill has speed control of its own so I don't need to vary the speed via the converter. Is VFD still a good option?
You missed the main selling point for the Rotary phase converter . You get one of those postwar heavy detent giant levers. That throw that takes 30 pounds of force and ends with the clunk is satisfying, but what really makes it is that slow building whir-whum-whum,hummmmmmm like you're energizing your death-ray.
I Just installed a 40 HP rotary converter for my whole shop. because i got a 88 ton 8 foot hydraulic press brake. The problem is the manufactured leg is dropping 40 volts when i put load on press. I hooked press up to a diesel generator and it worked great. Do you have recommendation on what rotary converter is the best? I got a north america. but can't keep the volts stable when loaded.
Excellent video sir. I cut my machining teeth on a Warner and Swasey turret lathe in high school. It had seen it’s better days but in small job shops without big maintenance budgets the machinists job was to learn the machines personality and compensate. By the way, Swasey is pronounced sway-zee. Another point on static converters, they work fine on milling machines like Bridgeports and clones because it’s a simple motor to belt drive, but on lathes, which of course are motor to belt but because of the quick change gear box and natural gear backlash it will clatter like crazy. Not good in the long run for the gears, but will probably drive you crazy long before that. Had a small shop on back of my dads garage and used a rotary converter back in the early 70’s. It was sized for my largest motor but I could only run one machine at a time so the compromise was fine. Yours would appear to be able to run several machines at one time with multiple operators. Nice job.
Great video. I have a 3 phase vo Compressor what would you recommend it's not going to. Be continuous running but just a compressor normal shop equipment running on a 7.5 h.p.motor thanks
Any suggestions on a Variable Frequency Drive Inverter for a parts washer with these specs 208-230/460 volts and 21-18/9 amps I only have single phase but need 3phase ?
What's the best solution for the Warner Swasey? I just got one from an auction. It has a 15hp 3ph Sterling motor. I would like the control of a VFD , but would the wiring be too complex?
Hey Gavin. Thanks for the video. I’ll be picking up a 1983 Nardini 10x30 lathe in a few days. I have a question about the VFD when choosing speeds on the lathe. Are you able to set the lathe at a higher speed/rpm and control the speed from the VFD? How would the two work together. I’m sure there is a combo for synergistic operation. Just not sure where to start.
I recently bought an electric forklift and the battery charger that came with it is 3 phase but I haven't been able to find any information about running it with a rotary converter. Does anyone know of a reason a rotary converter wouldn't work with a battery charger. I will be making or buying a rotary phase converter regardless since I have a lathe, milling maching and bandsaw that all use 3 phase and can't get 3 phase from the power company.
Why should a coolant pump motor on a machine like this be so beefy that it's also 3-phase even though it's not on a hefty load like a cutter head would often be?
I have a static converter hooked up to a motor I had rewound from 600v 3 Phase to 120 3phase for my home shop our residential voltage is 120 / 240V. Sometimes my machines starts great and other times it just makes a wurring noise and cant seem to get going. Eventually it always starts but it is a pain in the bum and now that I want to sell it I need it to start every time. Anyone have any idea why it sometimes has trouble starting ?Thanks
i got one of the phase shifters to run my hydraulic forging press set up. only thing im trying to work out is my set up has 3 cores neutral and earth and the dps is only for the motor i gotta work out the other wiring too
@@jcf536farrier5 We decided to buy a gas powered one. It was allot less expense. We use it about every day and are so glad we bought it. I don"t think we will ever buy any other brand.
@@papaswoodshop4873 Awesome I bought a manual mill in 2005 and cut over 300000 board feet on it. My dad bought a hydraulic one 2 years ago and I just love that one. Great mills, I am looking to buy there moulder mp360 so trying to set up 3 phase power for it.
Im trying to figure out the best option for my 3 phase 5hp Saylor Beall air compressor??? Its only $570.00 to just put a single phase Baldor motor on it and seems like it will be alot more if i went with a rotary converter and lots more with a vfd. Im told i have to get a 10hp VFD to run my 5 hp 3 phase motor?? Dont understand that but its what im reading. That rotary you got is $2700.00 not hardly worth running vs buying a single phase motor
I'd be surprised if a rotary phase converter even allows motors to get their rated power. You still have single phase on 2 lines (180 of phase), and then your generated third leg is only 90 degrees between them. Nothing like a true 120 degree separation of phases from true 3-phase power.
Tim Ramich That’s what I thought at first - but it’s not true. With different wild leg voltage - and the difference in how voltages are arranged- the motor “sees” 120 degree phased power just like it came from 3-phase line power
Tim- it's about sizing. If you have a 20hp idler motor in your RPC like I do, you can run up to a 10hp motor with no compromises. You can run larger motors than that, but you'll compromise on startup speed (slower).
@@Ultimatereloader There is no way to delay your phases equally when you have zero load or full load. The phasing will vary. It's the same concept of a capacitive dropper circuit to drop AC line voltage down without a regulator. Current is part of the formula to figure out the capacitor value needed. Varying the load on one of these is going to vary the phase. I can't wait until solid state phase converters become a thing. A VFD without control. Just AC->DC->AC.
Wow that was painless and comprehensive super simple
My dad was a Whirley crane operator in Richmond, California way back during WW2. Many years later he finished his long Union career working back in Richmond running again, a Whirley crane. This time he was working at a scrapyard for Levin Metals. The Levin brothers were buying up ships from the mothball fleet that was anchored just east of the Martinez/Benicia Bridge. One day they had a ship delivered to their dock, this was in the 1970s. They didn't know what was in it and only bought it for the scrap value and relied on information from the government. All the ships were sealed and purged with nitrogen to stop the insides from rusting. When. they opened it and went in they were amazed ! The ship was a repair ship and it was full of every metal and woodworking machine they needed to repair the ships at sea. The brothers took inventory and went about selling all the huge metalworking, and woodworking machines nationwide.
Gavin, I did the VFD converting single phase to three phase on an Eisen branded Liang Dei 14x40 lathe from Taiwan. As a matter of fact, I recognize that electrical diagram because I used pretty much the same one (no doubt from the same MJ source). I had no electrical experience at all, so it was very much a case of drinking through a fire hose. The good news was that everything worked perfectly, except the intermittent coolant, which was just a simple error in the diagram that showed a normally closed switch instead of a normally open one. I had a spare switch, so it was a quick fix. The Hitachi VFD gave me the options of variable speed, jog fwd and reverse, coolant on/off/intermittent and fast/slow braking choices using the motor. I wanted all the electrical components located in the lathe itself, so I located the VFD on a sliding drawer in the left/hand pedestal. I converted both access panels to hinged doors and vented the one on the left hand pedestal to ensure the VFD fan could circulate enough air. All in all it was a big job sourcing all the components, figuring out how to fit them all in the available space, making sure all the wiring was perfect, routing the additional wiring and programming the VFD. But, now that it’s done, it was worth it. Never had any issues pop up. Everything just works the way it is supposed to. MJ did a great job on the wiring diagram and VFD programming guide. Variable speed is so nice because you can just use a couple of gears for pretty much everything. I never run the motor at full speed because it just seems unnecessary. Actually, all the added features are nice and I use them all, depending on what I’m doing.
Do you have any way of knowing what Hp values you are getting from using the VFD?
Please don’t guess, if you don’t know, that’s cool. He said with the static phase converter you lose about 1/3 if the 3 Phase motor’s Hp. He didn’t mention much at all about the VFD because it was obvious that he knew nothing about it.
Cheers,
Michael
Ah, the term "Rotary Converter" brings back memories of waters long since passed under the bridge. I was the last person trained on rotary converter maintenance in our State here in Australia, back around the time Noah was looking at electricity for his ark. But these were AC - DC converters, not phase converters. Huge bloody things, some with commutators measuring 18ft in diameter and yokes 25 - 30ft in diameter, the smallest about 12ft yoke. All the insulation was either asbestos or mica and a general overhaul (not rebuild) of a unit took weeks. Just the thing for your workshop, lol, IF you want DC.....
Sadly I'm the only one left of my old crew, the others all since passed from respiratory disease.
The converter feed in transformers would split the 3 phase mains to either 6 or 12 phase to drive the synchronous motor to generate the DC, the units were run up to speed using DC "pony motors".... The units were huge, noisy mongrel (but very regal) bloody things, lmao!!
These RC units were very robust and their last years were spent testing new DC CB capacities because they were much more robust than the Mercury Arc Rectifiers (also old school technology) and solid state SCRs that were replacing them (both).
Just a quick story from years passed.
Cheers from downunder mate 🙂
🇦🇺 🍺🍺
That is awesome! I bet it was the gopher wood used to make the equipment that caused the respiratory problems. I sold welding equipment back in the day and the smoothest DC arc was an old Lincoln motor generator, 800 pounds for 200 amps, but smooth as glass. 3 phase 460 volt @ 100 amps input cables as thick as a girls wrist.They used Dutchman blue tinted welding glass until they found it didn't really work.
thank you for the reply @@richspillman4191, yes the old lincolns were the standard of the day.
Most of the older fellows passed from breathing in the asbestos mate. We were still using asbestos mats and replacing asbestos with asbestos even in the 70s. I only know of 3 survivors (me included) of that era who worked in the same locations. We'd have to tramp around in knee deep asbestos dust under the machines as we worked on them.
Cheers my friend.
i know Im randomly asking but does any of you know a method to log back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot the login password. I appreciate any tricks you can offer me!
@Junior Abel Instablaster =)
@Sage Gary Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm.
I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Ever heard of the phase perfect? They work great for multiple loads and powering electronic loads.
2/3 the power Variable frequency Drive sigle phase and three phase variants cool Thank you gavintoobe channel
I got a 3 phase metal bandsaw with a 1.5 hp motor. I would like your opinion in using a SPC for it. Thanks, great video.
Great vid as always. I'd love to see you do a virtual shop tour for us sometime. I'd love to see the whole thing - Not only the metal shop but the reloading side as well. Cheers!
Stuart- I think that's a great idea! Thanks for the suggesion...
There's also rotary transformers - also called rotary phase converters but they're actually 3 phase generators. I'm looking into those now.
I have a Sheldon T 1136 lathe. Has an three phase 220/440. Looking at using a vfd from 110 to run. I’m doing research and appreciate your video. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks
Nice explanation. I use to install FVD on large AC/Heating air handlers (15+ HP) as part of a energy savings package for commercial buildings. The concept was to slow down the motor in mild weather seasons
Cool idea- did you have any issues with harmonics or feedback back into the grid? (can be an issue with motors over 5hp)
I will sed if I can find some spec's . I don't know but this was a big investment for our client so they could have been very high end.
i did that with an 10compressor. the VFD inyected so many harmonics that security cameras started flashing@@Ultimatereloader
This video was super helpful. Thank you for putting in the time to make this.
Thank you. I can only buy a VFD, it is cheaper and more readily available than a rotary converter. My 3-phase drill has speed control of its own so I don't need to vary the speed via the converter. Is VFD still a good option?
You missed the main selling point for the Rotary phase converter . You get one of those postwar heavy detent giant levers. That throw that takes 30 pounds of force and ends with the clunk is satisfying, but what really makes it is that slow building whir-whum-whum,hummmmmmm like you're energizing your death-ray.
Hahaha....
I want one and don’t even need it. That right there is how you sell a product.
Yes. Yes.. Its alive!!!!!!!.
You right. How else would i be motivated to do any work with out that type of encouragement.
VFDs can run more than one motor, you just have to install external motor overloads. This is done common practice in vibratory pans and cooling fans.
I Just installed a 40 HP rotary converter for my whole shop. because i got a 88 ton 8 foot hydraulic press brake. The problem is the manufactured leg is dropping 40 volts when i put load on press. I hooked press up to a diesel generator and it worked great. Do you have recommendation on what rotary converter is the best? I got a north america. but can't keep the volts stable when loaded.
Excellent video sir. I cut my machining teeth on a Warner and Swasey turret lathe in high school. It had seen it’s better days but in small job shops without big maintenance budgets the machinists job was to learn the machines personality and compensate. By the way, Swasey is pronounced sway-zee.
Another point on static converters, they work fine on milling machines like Bridgeports and clones because it’s a simple motor to belt drive, but on lathes, which of course are motor to belt but because of the quick change gear box and natural gear backlash it will clatter like crazy. Not good in the long run for the gears, but will probably drive you crazy long before that. Had a small shop on back of my dads garage and used a rotary converter back in the early 70’s. It was sized for my largest motor but I could only run one machine at a time so the compromise was fine. Yours would appear to be able to run several machines at one time with multiple operators. Nice job.
Great video. I have a 3 phase vo
Compressor what would you recommend it's not going to. Be continuous running but just a compressor normal shop equipment running on a 7.5 h.p.motor thanks
Hi there
I've bought a pizza oven lincat po360-2 it's 14.4kw 400v 3phase what size of converter I need to buy!???
I have 3 phase compressor, but my source is single phase. Is it possible to supply the compressor using single phase? what should I consider?
Do the VFD phase converters also drop into single phase after start-up?
Any suggestions on a Variable Frequency Drive Inverter for a parts washer with these specs 208-230/460 volts and 21-18/9 amps I only have single phase but need 3phase ?
Is a static phase converter and a digital phase converter the same thing?
Looking to power a 20hp rotary air compressor on single phase power any ideas which would be best option especially keeping budget in mind
vfd 230v input. out 3 phase 380v to 400v+ is support welding machine inverter 3 phase. good or not. or need high KW vfd?
Does rotary frequency convertor on those three phase machines in your workshop run on a single phase when you connect rotary frequency convertor
would you be able to us phase converters to run something like a 3 phase commercial ac unit and/or a walk in freezer?
What's the best solution for the Warner Swasey? I just got one from an auction. It has a 15hp 3ph Sterling motor. I would like the control of a VFD , but would the wiring be too complex?
Hey Gavin. Thanks for the video. I’ll be picking up a 1983 Nardini 10x30 lathe in a few days. I have a question about the VFD when choosing speeds on the lathe. Are you able to set the lathe at a higher speed/rpm and control the speed from the VFD? How would the two work together. I’m sure there is a combo for synergistic operation. Just not sure where to start.
You can but your better off just setting the VFD to 60hz and use the rpm selector on the lathe.
Great video !!!! Thank you.
I recently bought an electric forklift and the battery charger that came with it is 3 phase but I haven't been able to find any information about running it with a rotary converter. Does anyone know of a reason a rotary converter wouldn't work with a battery charger. I will be making or buying a rotary phase converter regardless since I have a lathe, milling maching and bandsaw that all use 3 phase and can't get 3 phase from the power company.
Why should a coolant pump motor on a machine like this be so beefy that it's also 3-phase even though it's not on a hefty load like a cutter head would often be?
What about power consumption
I have a static converter hooked up to a motor I had rewound from 600v 3 Phase to 120 3phase for my home shop our residential voltage is 120 / 240V. Sometimes my machines starts great and other times it just makes a wurring noise and cant seem to get going. Eventually it always starts but it is a pain in the bum and now that I want to sell it I need it to start every time. Anyone have any idea why it sometimes has trouble starting ?Thanks
do Thay make one for 7 hp?
I am looking at a three phase 15hp drum sander. Any recommendations?
American Rotary has a sizing chart for converter
Digital phase converters are the things of the future. Very expensive these days.
i got one of the phase shifters to run my hydraulic forging press set up. only thing im trying to work out is my set up has 3 cores neutral and earth and the dps is only for the motor i gotta work out the other wiring too
What would be best for a 3 phase welder?
How many amps does your welder run at what voltage?
Nice shop!
Thanks!
I am getting ready to buy a 3 Phase Wood Mizer saw mill. Can you give the link to the VFD or the model number please. Thank you
It's a Lapond unit from Amazon, but I can't reccomend it until I hook it up :)
Ok I will wait to see if you like it or not. Thanks
@@papaswoodshop4873 how do you like your woodmizer
@@jcf536farrier5 We decided to buy a gas powered one. It was allot less expense. We use it about every day and are so glad we bought it. I don"t think we will ever buy any other brand.
@@papaswoodshop4873 Awesome I bought a manual mill in 2005 and cut over 300000 board feet on it. My dad bought a hydraulic one 2 years ago and I just love that one. Great mills, I am looking to buy there moulder mp360 so trying to set up 3 phase power for it.
Im trying to figure out the best option for my 3 phase 5hp Saylor Beall air compressor??? Its only $570.00 to just put a single phase Baldor motor on it and seems like it will be alot more if i went with a rotary converter and lots more with a vfd. Im told i have to get a 10hp VFD to run my 5 hp 3 phase motor?? Dont understand that but its what im reading. That rotary you got is $2700.00 not hardly worth running vs buying a single phase motor
buy the 5hp single phase motor
whoever said you need a 10hp vfd is full of crap, never had any issues running the same size vfd to my motors before
If you can run multiple pieces of equipment off that phase converter, then what do you run them ON?
👍👍👍
I'd be surprised if a rotary phase converter even allows motors to get their rated power. You still have single phase on 2 lines (180 of phase), and then your generated third leg is only 90 degrees between them. Nothing like a true 120 degree separation of phases from true 3-phase power.
Tim Ramich That’s what I thought at first - but it’s not true. With different wild leg voltage - and the difference in how voltages are arranged- the motor “sees” 120 degree phased power just like it came from 3-phase line power
@@UltimatereloaderThat's impossible to accomplish with capacitors when you will have varying loads being drawn.
Tim- it's about sizing. If you have a 20hp idler motor in your RPC like I do, you can run up to a 10hp motor with no compromises. You can run larger motors than that, but you'll compromise on startup speed (slower).
@@Ultimatereloader There is no way to delay your phases equally when you have zero load or full load. The phasing will vary. It's the same concept of a capacitive dropper circuit to drop AC line voltage down without a regulator. Current is part of the formula to figure out the capacitor value needed. Varying the load on one of these is going to vary the phase. I can't wait until solid state phase converters become a thing. A VFD without control. Just AC->DC->AC.
If the coolant pump on your 5HP machine runs off of that same motor that the milling bit runs on, then what motor does the pump run ON?
Static work for welder.