38 Sp and 380 ACP used to be far more effective rounds, but probably not for the reason you think. Many people are protected by a layer of blubber, largely due to the modern American diet. For some rare specimens, I would recommend a higher caliber and perhaps dangerous game projectiles.
@@ToolsandTargets Video not required. It's obvious that the .380 ACP wins on Capacity and Less recoil. However it looses significantly when it comes to power, velocity and accuracy at longer range.
The barrels are comparable as the chamber is included in the semi measurement and not on the revolver. The 38 critical defense is what I carry. Great vid
Really..your point is that anything is better than nothing? What about buying and getting what is advertised!?? Wake up bro. That's like saying a LCP is better than nothing, duh, but who carries that unless you absolutely cannot afford something else.
Excellent video. Great comparison choices too. I carry this ammo in .38 +P in a 3” barrel so I’m even more confident in its performance than I already have been for 20 years. Keep it up good sir.
Carried a Smith snubbie 38 for years as an off duty and backup. With the micro 9’s it’s been replaced. Still carry a 380 Taurus TCP around the house and yard for critter control. Haven’t tried the Critical Defense in either. Nice test Tools, thanks for sharing!
I’ll consider using these in 38. Not a bad wound channel at all, but I’d like to see a bit more penetration. As for the 380, I’m probably going to stick with fmj for now. I don’t like either of them over other calibers, to be honest, but when jobs don’t allow for employees to carry, you gotta have deep concealment. Great video👍
Good stuff. 380 is a caliber where round selection and barrel length make a huge difference. You need a good +P round and at least 3 inches of barrel to get real expansion. Personally I'm partial to the Underwood 95gr +P out of a Bersa Thunder 👍🏻
Hey, thanks for mentioning the Bersa Thunder and your favorite loading. I have a two-tone from about 15 years ago, and it is very accurate, as such I packed it plus it was my on the road gun in my poorer years. The gun snobs don't appreciate that weapon! My hands prefer a different pistol now (Tarus G3C), plus I've changed my shooting style. I fully bet that 95 grain load out of the Bersa tops regular 9mm.
My wife carries a 38 hammerless Smith & Wesson five shot snub nose. Good to see it did ok in the jel. That 380 was surprising again. Maybe I should’ve have discounted it all this time. Thank you again man.
The 38 special has the advantage of being able to use a bullet optimized for expansion and not have the feeding issue of an auto. One of my carry guns is the Taurus 856 with the 110 ftx +p
@@GodGunsGills they shouldn’t… but auto’s are at the mercy of ammunition, so bad ammunition/cartridge often means jam. Bad cartridge in a revolver, pull the trigger, it’ll go bang.
Yes, in general, given similar ballistics, a revolver cartridge will generally perform better than a pistol cartridge. The manufacturer of pistol ammunition has to contend with making a round that will feed reliably in most semi-automatic handguns. The revolver round manufacturer does not suffer this constraint. I saw a box of 38 special standard pressure rounds once specifically designed for low velocity expansion. Those damned things had a lead hollow point that was nearly as wide as the bullet itself. Their hollow point cavity was actually as cavernous as a 45!
That’s the round I carry in my 357mag j frame. I’m pleased with the performance of the 38 spl and feel good about carrying it Thank You for another great video Tools. Keep em coming.
Good test. Was surprised by the .38 Special with that short a barrel through the clothing. I currently don’t have anything in a .38 so seeing some testing is good for me. Thanks Tools. Keep up the good work and have a safe weekend. 🇺🇸😎🇺🇸
I’m a full potential 10mm guy and .40 cal, but this video is the most fair and uncommon comparison I’ve seen. .380 and .38 special. I don’t see any videos on these. Awesome job on this one. I also have the LCP in .22 for screwing around for cheap 😂👍🏽
“Best mm” can’t be beaten! That’s my number one choice for EDC too. Plus it’s fun to enter the never ending debates of the 9 vs 40 vs 45 and just say 10mm then slide out lol 😂. I do still like and use all calibers though!
Nothing like Jelly Time. 🤣 I think they both did the job... I personally use the Glock 27 subcompact. 40, but it was good to see this test and review. Good video Tools 2A💪🇺🇸 👊
Excellent video and information.. Since we are talking "pocket carry" LCP Max vs Taurus 856: Height: 4.12 vs 4.80 Width: 0.81 vs 1.41 Length 5.17 vs 6.55 weight: 10.6 vs 16 ounces capacity 10+1 vs 6 rounds For typical front pocket carry, the Ruger is very easy to hide in almost any pants/shorts. Although performance was a little better with the 38 special ...! The sights are very nice on the LCP Max
The perfect in between option, for me, is the Ruger Max9 Pro. Not much bigger than this LCP and more 9mm ammo options, higher capacity, and still highly concealable year round.
Love your “Jelly Tests”, and again just confirms the lack of reliable expansions from most .380ACP HPs. Why I just go with the Leigh/Underwood Extreme Penetrators, solid projectiles that you can count on.
I did my own test with a 2-in barrel Taurus model 85 38spl and Hornady 110 grain critical defense and got what would be calculated out to 14 inches of penetration through ballistics gel except I was using water as a testing medium had perfect expansion to nearly the size of a 45 caliber bullet
I carried a .380 for a brief period of time (Walther PK380). Wounded up switching back to my old SW M60. Just felt more comfortable with the .38spl, especially with the hot +P loads I had.
I use the Buffalo Bore 158 grain lead semi wadcutter standard pressure. I use those in a 642, or a 442. On my lab radar series of five shots was 892 FPS
@@davetripper I carry a Tomcat…usually Magtech 71 Grain FMJ. I tried critical defense and Winchester Silvertips, but had some feeding issues. JHP in a barrel that short tend to have penetration and expansion issues as well, to the point where I’d be more confident in ball ammo.
@@davetripper 150 rounds of it so far, with no malfunctions. Used Aguila and Federal AE as well, without issues. The Magtech was what was available in bulk, and affordable so I’m sticking with it since it works.
TnT, we gotta do a fundraiser for you to buy a high speed slow motion video camera. You're the hardest working tester on TH-cam! Great video again. Thanks!
@@Tron2pointOh The GoPro 10 I have will do 240 frames at 2.7k but I use it for my main camera. I'm thinking about using it for the jelly cam and getting a new camera for the main.
I was just thinking that same exact thing! This channel has become one of my favorites. Would be great to help him get the subscriber count up to numbers like Sootch and MAC. A super slow motion high speed cam would be great. @tools&targets
A great test from Mr. T&T...I'm surprised the Lil 380 went so deep...both cartridges would perform well in a self-defensive situation....the lack of expansion is secondary to penetration... ...in that regard, those that carry such small guns should consider themselves well-armed. Thanks Tool & Targets.!
Thank you very much…..Any more in my old age I either carry a 380 or a 38 snubnose In my pocket. When I was younger, I carried anything from a 357 magnum to an 18 round 9 mm…… You are fun to watch.
Basic rule of thumb is for every +/- 1" of barrel, you get +/- 50fps. Your chronograph results seem to reflect this. I imagine they tested these loads out of 4-5" barrels and that's what they slapped on the label.
Well…. The .380 refuses to cooperate again. If and that’s a big IF, I slip my max in my pocket it’ll have fmj or extreme defenders. The .38 did how I was expecting both to do. Lots of great info to go on as always my friend. 👍🇺🇸
@@AA-mk4pu ….. I normally don’t respond to jackasses with a keyboard but actually read what I said. I never said 380 wouldn’t work. It’s idiotic people and comments like yours that have no business on a great channel like this.
Thanks for this video. Now I am confident with my wife's carry for her Ruger 380, for close range, 7' confrontations. I am surprised to see this similarity considering the weight difference between the 38 and 380. I am use to seeing more 38 spcl. to 9mm luger testing's, for similar weights. Your videos are always informative, interesting and to the point-Thanks.
Between these 2 looks like I'm sticking with .38 Special as I don't have anything in .380 always good info in these tests my friend I appreciate you. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
I really enjoy and appreciate all of the work you do on these tests. Would love to see 147 grain HST out of the P365 against the heavy clothing. Any plans for a test soon?
I don't have a dog in the .380 .vs. .38 hunt but found the video interesting and enjoyable. It would also be interesting to see how much difference a .38 +p makes over the regular .38 in a pocket revolver.
This is a great video. Thanks. We all carry small revolvers or small pocket 380's. WHich is better? I think you forgot to mention how many people just carry an extreme penetrator or a semi wadcutter/flat nose hard ball in little 380 pistols.
I've talked about and made videos on that several times. If I ever carried a small .380 like this, it would definitely be loaded with some type of solid round.
Interesting results that correlate well with other gel tests I’ve seen. Getting expansion from the 38 Special seems a little more predictable than the .380 ACP. I always default to Federal HSTs in the .380.
I wouldn't fault you for that. Tools has me sold on these Hydra Shock Deep for 380. I should say he's not pushing them but they did perform very well and it sold me.
@@ToolsandTargets I’ve seen very few .380 rounds that actually expand properly, at least among the choices you can actually buy. Not to compare results but Luck Gunner has a pretty comprehensive list of the ammo they’ve tested as well. I finally just gave up on the pocket carry .380s. I like my LCP Max. It has been reliable and accurate but I’ve switched to my SP101 as my primary carry gun. I typically use two Buffalo Bore heavy, hard cast wad cutters followed by three Buffalo Bore heavy semi wad cutter 158 gr +P rounds, the FBI load as they call them. Then I carry a speed strip with Buffalo Bore low flash .357 Magnum JHPs.
I have both. The Ruger 10-shot 380 is soooo easy to carry, easier than the wider .38, and therefore always on me. With premium ammo in both, the .38 will always be vastly superior performance wise. So I like both but only as for walking to the mailbox and piddling around the house guns. For me, and for many years, I carry a LW 1911 or at least a compact nine. BTW, I am addicted to your informative and well done videos.
Another good test, Tools! 👍 But, once again, your tests prove that, through fabric, expansion from any 380 JHP is unreliable, even the Hydra-Shok Deeps. For us 380 users, a flat-nose FMJ or the Underwood Xtreme Defender and Penetrator are the only reliable choice.
Enjoyed your presentation. Thanks. In 380 I would use the Underwood loading of the Lehigh bullet. The Xtreme Defender 68 grain standard pressure 1300 fps or +P 1400 fps. I believe Ruger says (I have the old LCP) that +P is not recommended. That new Ruger may say it’s ok. HP ammo in 380 does not expand properly. This ammo’s design is supposed to cavitate and make a larger wound channel. But is not meant to expand. Black Hills makes a similar round they call the Honey Badger which I have never tried. If you can maybe make a comparison in those rounds in .38 Special and .380. Thanks again.
Thank you sir. I have tested the Extreme Defenders and Penetrators in standard and +P .380 as well as the Honey Badgers. Those solid type rounds or an fmj would be my choice if I was going to carry .380.😎👍
That .380 was surprising. I expected some expansion, even through the LCP Max. They can't hide from the clothing test. It tells the story. Great video as usual.
Try some of Underwood's load of the XTP round, they load it 200fps faster than Hornady, I bet you those will stand up to the clothing 👍🏻 if not their 100gr hard cast +P round in 380 damn sure will.
I wouldn't carry a 380 myself, maybe a 38 special but I would like a micro 9mm. I'm not sure which one but a "best micro 9" video would probably be a good start. Not sure if you've done one or not but I'm pretty sure you have done a few of the most popular micro 9's. This is a really good test for everyday carry though. My 38 is too heavy that's why I just carry my M&P 2.0 c in 9mm. I need a lighter carry gun. Smith came out with a couple of new guns ,equalizer=new shield basically, shield plus, I wonder how they stack up against the Glocks, Taurus and Sig micro 9's? If you did that video tell me and I'll look it up.
Of course carry is a very personal decision and I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do , but the concept of pocket carry is in my opinion as a backup or if you have basketball shorts or something. Micro 9s suck to shoot. That's why 380 is popular. At least I hope people aren't carrying full size 380 pistols.
Would like to have a follow up shot on the .380 just to see if the results were similar to the first shot. Not sure a conclusion can be made with a single shot. Nice video. Thanks for all your effort. xCop
Only conclusion I need is that that round didn't expand in the slightest. Tells me all I need to know which I really already knew, that there's no sense in wasting time with anything other than a solid round from this stumpy .380.🤷♂️
@@ToolsandTargetsas your videos have shown, with the 380, you either get good penetration or good expansion but not both, so you’re better off getting good penetration to hit those vitals. I carry either round nose or flat nosed 380 rounds in my S&W Bodyguard.
I use and carry both, a .380 acp Ruger LCP II and a S&W M-640, one is blued it rust in summer the other is stainles. I find the terminal effect on every thing is about the same except the .38 spl is somewhat more effective due to bullet weight.
Thanks for this video. I've always been a fan of the .38 special round and revolvers too. I think that this combo is perfectly fine for people to carry also. I know that a lot of people will disagree with me but it works. Do you really need 10+ rounds for protection? I don't think so. Beyond that, good video and thanks.
Thanks tools for confirming what I already knew ! I tested those Hornady rounds last year and they all performed poorly , non expanded much . i run the deep rounds you tested in my lcp max
I prefer a .38 Special caliber to .380. I only recently purchased my first .380 in my long gun owning history. The LCP Max was the reason for that. 13 rounds in a package much smaller and easier to carry than a J-frame is hard to pass up. That being said I long ago learned that anything smaller than a 9MM I just use a good quality ball round and call it good. That is exactly what I carry in the LCP max. In a J frame snubbie size .38 I carry 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter ammo. I would feel ok with either most of the time in an urban environment. If I was going in the woods and could only choose from the two I would take the .38
@@ToolsandTargets not expanding wouldn’t change anything if you shot a person Bro… they die the same. Tell me what the expansion of .38 did to kill better than. 380… “the gel wounds are equal”.
Thank you for using two guns that people actually carry instead of the high end race guns usually featured in these tests. My EDC in retirement is either a light J Frame or LCP, depending on how I’m dressed.
The only 380 I've owned was a Cobra derringer and I think it was the perfect round for a derringer. It was large enough to have some knock down power but small enough not to have too much recoil. I traded it off because I felt it was unsafe. I recently traded a Ruger LC9s for a Taurus 856 with a 2" barrel and I love it. I like the heft of the stainless steel and the recoil is not bad at all. I hated the Ruger LC9s. I wanted a revolver because the Ruger mag was very difficult to load with the athritis and gout I suffer with. The revovler is easy to load. Thanks for the video, it's good to see the results of your tests.
I use the Hornady Critical Defense .380acp in a S&W M&P Bodyguard. My Bodyguard is equipped with fiber optic sights, a short trigger and a Crimson Trace Green Laser.
My Beretta has a nearly 4”bbl, so the Critical Defense function perfectly. A little barrel length makes a huge difference. My revolver is a 3”, so it does well, also.
.380 underwoods with a 10+1 in the pocket using the the lcp max. Comfortable to carry and plenty of up close and personal firepower. I want something with me at all times and this fits the bill.
As long as it is deep enough you can expect some debilitation. One should know that 1 round isn't enough. Double or triple taps is often called for. As long as the threat stops it's all good.
Tools you've don't it again, very good test. I'd like to see what that 38 would do in a carbine length rifle. Might be a good compromise for a 38/357 carbine. 380 had good penetration but I'd like to see some expansion, otherwise it's just like using a FMJ but at a higher $$$. Be vigilant, be safe.
I got my wife the Ruger .380ACP LCP pistol but I put 90 grain soft nose rounds as opposed to HPS! Superior penetration and they flattened out better than the hollow points!
I have the LCP for deep cover carry. With the critical defense round I know that if I don’t get expansion, I will get something like FMJ performance out of it. I carry it for the concealability of the firearm. The .380 still beats the performance of the .22 and .25 caliber firearms it replaced. For my .38, I usually carry the Remington 110 grain SJHP round, but during the Covid pandemic and shortage of rounds I began carrying the 148 grain WC round. While it generally won’t expand, neither do most HP rounds. The WC round with its wide faced blunt bullet often becomes unstable and may tumble. It out performs the old conical shaped 158 grain LRN round. The greater bang of a +P round gives little increase in performance in the short 2” bbl.
I feel much better with the power of the 1851 Navy. Even though it’s black powder, it pushes a .375 83 grain ball 1,080 fps with over 200 ft lbs energy. That’s more than adequate.
I actually use both of those rounds in the S&W 642 (love it) and the Ruger LCP Custom. My 642 has kind of retired my LCP since I got it last summer. Great test thanks
Tools, do you have any theory as to why, given the same diameter bullet, with the .38 having a little less velocity than the .380, it expanded and the .380 didn't? Do you think the same outcome would happen if you fired more than one test round into the jelly contraption? Curious...Great video as always!
I destroyed my shoulder in my dominant right arm a year and a half ago. I've had two surgical procedures and am getting ready for a complete reverse shoulder replacement. I've carried the ruger max 380 in my left pocket that long. It's not what I want to carry, but all my rigs are right handed. 23 rounds of 380 beats a sharp stick any day. Enjoyed the video sir.
@Echosdad2 I wish you the same as well. Life sure can throw you a curve ball out of nowhere. I too have absolutely no strength in my right arm. You adapt and keep going. Nice talking to you.
Great video thanks for posting it. Very close performance from both of these rounds. I've owned a Taurus snubby and currently own the LCP Max. Bottom line? Too close to call. They both punch holes and disrupt tissue. Holes bleed and tissue ruptures. The penetration is easily able to hit vitals and bones. So with proper shot placement either will get the job done. The 380 hollow point is very close to FMJ when fired from the LCP Max. One might be tempted to save some money and just run FMJ in it and get a similar performance .
38 Sp and 380 ACP used to be far more effective rounds, but probably not for the reason you think. Many people are protected by a layer of blubber, largely due to the modern American diet. For some rare specimens, I would recommend a higher caliber and perhaps dangerous game projectiles.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Dangerous Game" 😂😂😂
Alot more of em died hours, days and weeks later back then as well. They are better at plugging the holes now.
Lol, no.
Ridiculous comment. Some people… 🤦🏼
This is the exact reason why I carry 147 grain 9mm.
That was actually surprising performance for a .38 Special standard pressure load out of a snub nose revolver. 👍
Yeah, not too shabby through the cloth especially.
Outstanding
IT REALLY WAS GOOD PERFORMANCE - BUT I'M GONNA STICK WITH MY 158 KEITH STYLE FBI LOAD -- REALLY PENETRATES
@@ToolsandTargets Video not required. It's obvious that the .380 ACP wins on Capacity and Less recoil. However it looses significantly when it comes to power, velocity and accuracy at longer range.
Great to see short barrel 380 tests instead of the EZ, thank you Tools!
😎👍
The barrels are comparable as the chamber is included in the semi measurement and not on the revolver. The 38 critical defense is what I carry. Great vid
Thank you sir.
Thank you. I was about to comment the same.
This is one of the more fun educational ballistics testing channels out there. Really havin a good time watching these. Learning a lot too.
Appreciate that!
Either one is better than not having a gun in a self defense situation. Thanks for testing these. I do carry my Ruger LCP a lot.
Definitely.😎👍
Do you use the Underwood XD +p in your LCP?
@@RealtyPro7 I have never tried any Underwood ammo
Only somebody owning a lcp would leave a comment like this 😂
Really..your point is that anything is better than nothing? What about buying and getting what is advertised!?? Wake up bro. That's like saying a LCP is better than nothing, duh, but who carries that unless you absolutely cannot afford something else.
Excellent video. Great comparison choices too. I carry this ammo in .38 +P in a 3” barrel so I’m even more confident in its performance than I already have been for 20 years. Keep it up good sir.
Appreciate that. Definitely a good one for that setup.
I always wanted to see these two rounds matched against each other. Thanks for another great video and the useful information it provided.
😎👍
Carried a Smith snubbie 38 for years as an off duty and backup. With the micro 9’s it’s been replaced. Still carry a 380 Taurus TCP around the house and yard for critter control. Haven’t tried the Critical Defense in either. Nice test Tools, thanks for sharing!
Thank you sir.😎👍
I’ll consider using these in 38. Not a bad wound channel at all, but I’d like to see a bit more penetration. As for the 380, I’m probably going to stick with fmj for now. I don’t like either of them over other calibers, to be honest, but when jobs don’t allow for employees to carry, you gotta have deep concealment. Great video👍
Thank you sir. I'd definitely be loading a solid round with the .380.
If I were you, I'd get some Underwood 380 Xtreme Defenders then. Great FMJ penetration with JHP-esque fluid disruption.
Better safe, than sorry, you can always get another job
@Jeff H That's what I do. 👍
I load Xtreme Defenders for Summer, Xtreme Penetrators for Winter.
It's at 38 rounded wound channel was any longer it would have hit the victim and came out his back
Good stuff. 380 is a caliber where round selection and barrel length make a huge difference. You need a good +P round and at least 3 inches of barrel to get real expansion.
Personally I'm partial to the Underwood 95gr +P out of a Bersa Thunder 👍🏻
NO one needs to dismiss this lack luster POS round, total shit..
Hey, thanks for mentioning the Bersa Thunder and your favorite loading. I have a two-tone from about 15 years ago, and it is very accurate, as such I packed it plus it was my on the road gun in my poorer years. The gun snobs don't appreciate that weapon! My hands prefer a different pistol now (Tarus G3C), plus I've changed my shooting style. I fully bet that 95 grain load out of the Bersa tops regular 9mm.
😎👍
Nice test! I have a LCR 38. I'm carrying it with the Underwood full wadcutter.
Thank you sir. I need to get a few wadcutters to test with.
My wife carries a 38 hammerless Smith & Wesson five shot snub nose. Good to see it did ok in the jel. That 380 was surprising again. Maybe I should’ve have discounted it all this time. Thank you again man.
Appreciate ya!😎👊
I so appreciate your demonstration methods and style. Very good and direct comparisons!
Thank you sir. Appreciate that.😎👍
The 38 special has the advantage of being able to use a bullet optimized for expansion and not have the feeding issue of an auto. One of my carry guns is the Taurus 856 with the 110 ftx +p
I really like these small framed Taurus revolvers.
Autos shouldn't be having feeding issues this day and age. Especially top brands
@@GodGunsGills they shouldn’t… but auto’s are at the mercy of ammunition, so bad ammunition/cartridge often means jam. Bad cartridge in a revolver, pull the trigger, it’ll go bang.
Also you can use really light loads (wadcutter) in a revolver because you don't have cycling issues like in an auto.
Yes, in general, given similar ballistics, a revolver cartridge will generally perform better than a pistol cartridge. The manufacturer of pistol ammunition has to contend with making a round that will feed reliably in most semi-automatic handguns. The revolver round manufacturer does not suffer this constraint. I saw a box of 38 special standard pressure rounds once specifically designed for low velocity expansion. Those damned things had a lead hollow point that was nearly as wide as the bullet itself. Their hollow point cavity was actually as cavernous as a 45!
That’s the round I carry in my 357mag j frame. I’m pleased with the performance of the 38 spl and feel good about carrying it
Thank You for another great video Tools. Keep em coming.
Appreciate you, my friend!
Good test. Was surprised by the .38 Special with that short a barrel through the clothing. I currently don’t have anything in a .38 so seeing some testing is good for me. Thanks Tools. Keep up the good work and have a safe weekend. 🇺🇸😎🇺🇸
Thank you sir. Hitting the range tomorrow for some more jelly tests!😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets Keep warm then, can’t wait to see the new “Tools” too.
I’m a full potential 10mm guy and .40 cal, but this video is the most fair and uncommon comparison I’ve seen. .380 and .38 special. I don’t see any videos on these. Awesome job on this one. I also have the LCP in .22 for screwing around for cheap 😂👍🏽
Appreciate that. Love me some 10mm.😎👍
“Best mm” can’t be beaten! That’s my number one choice for EDC too. Plus it’s fun to enter the never ending debates of the 9 vs 40 vs 45 and just say 10mm then slide out lol 😂.
I do still like and use all calibers though!
Nothing like Jelly Time. 🤣 I think they both did the job... I personally use the Glock 27 subcompact. 40, but it was good to see this test and review. Good video Tools 2A💪🇺🇸 👊
Thank you sir. I really like that Glock 27 I picked up for testing.
Excellent video and information.. Since we are talking "pocket carry" LCP Max vs Taurus 856:
Height: 4.12 vs 4.80
Width: 0.81 vs 1.41
Length 5.17 vs 6.55
weight: 10.6 vs 16 ounces
capacity 10+1 vs 6 rounds
For typical front pocket carry, the Ruger is very easy to hide in almost any pants/shorts.
Although performance was a little better with the 38 special ...!
The sights are very nice on the LCP Max
Thank you sir.
The perfect in between option, for me, is the Ruger Max9 Pro. Not much bigger than this LCP and more 9mm ammo options, higher capacity, and still highly concealable year round.
Thanks for another fine round of Jelly Time testing.
I like both of these loads but I prefer the +P loading in the 38 Special.
😎👊
Love your “Jelly Tests”, and again just confirms the lack of reliable expansions from most .380ACP HPs. Why I just go with the Leigh/Underwood Extreme Penetrators, solid projectiles that you can count on.
Thank you sir.😎👊
Agreed. Underwood makes the most effective 380 ammo I’ve seen so far! Both their XD and XP performance is unmatched.
I think Hornady makes a +p version of that 38. Little more power and performance. Might be the way to go if you can. Thanks for the test!
Yeah, +P might give it that little extra boost it needs.
I use those 38spl in my Rossi and in my 686-6. This told me what I needed to know thanks for posting this.
😎👍
I did my own test with a 2-in barrel Taurus model 85 38spl and Hornady 110 grain critical defense and got what would be calculated out to 14 inches of penetration through ballistics gel except I was using water as a testing medium had perfect expansion to nearly the size of a 45 caliber bullet
Nice😎👍
Thanks for testing with realistic carry guns. Great information here.
Appreciate you checkin it out!
I carried a .380 for a brief period of time (Walther PK380). Wounded up switching back to my old SW M60. Just felt more comfortable with the .38spl, especially with the hot +P loads I had.
😎👍
I use the Buffalo Bore 158 grain lead semi wadcutter standard pressure. I use those in a 642, or a 442. On my lab radar series of five shots was 892 FPS
Appreciate all the jelly test, ammo hunts and reviews you do. Personally I carry a little 32 Tomcat as a pocket pistol. Keep up the great work 👍.
Thank you sir. Love that Tomcat.
Right there with you. What ammo do you shoot through it at the range and what are you loading it with for carry?
@@davetripper I carry a Tomcat…usually Magtech 71 Grain FMJ. I tried critical defense and Winchester Silvertips, but had some feeding issues. JHP in a barrel that short tend to have penetration and expansion issues as well, to the point where I’d be more confident in ball ammo.
@@nickg4422 thanks! Haven’t tried the Magtech yet… any ejection or feed issues with the Magtech?
@@davetripper 150 rounds of it so far, with no malfunctions. Used Aguila and Federal AE as well, without issues. The Magtech was what was available in bulk, and affordable so I’m sticking with it since it works.
TnT, we gotta do a fundraiser for you to buy a high speed slow motion video camera. You're the hardest working tester on TH-cam! Great video again. Thanks!
Them things are high dollar! Thank you sir.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets the new Panasonic Lumix gh6 will do 300 frames per second. 1600 bux. Put up a go fund me. I'll donate
@@Tron2pointOh The GoPro 10 I have will do 240 frames at 2.7k but I use it for my main camera. I'm thinking about using it for the jelly cam and getting a new camera for the main.
@@ToolsandTargets it would be great to see what those bullets are doing in the jelly. Thanks for all your efforts!
I was just thinking that same exact thing! This channel has become one of my favorites. Would be great to help him get the subscriber count up to numbers like Sootch and MAC. A super slow motion high speed cam would be great. @tools&targets
38 gets the win , good test , thanks for sharing
Yessir.😎👍
How does the 38 get the win the 380 had better numbers and more penetrating power.
@@11983Machinethe .380 didn’t expand at all.
@@813GCIt still did equal damage and penetrated more.. You people are slow lol..
@@TTime685 none of that matters if it doesn’t expand at all.
A great test from Mr. T&T...I'm surprised the Lil 380 went so deep...both cartridges would perform well in a self-defensive situation....the lack of expansion is secondary to penetration...
...in that regard, those that carry such small guns should consider themselves well-armed.
Thanks Tool & Targets.!
Thank you sir. Agreed. I think the .380 was probably better off not expanding.😎👍
Have a couple of those Critical Defense in +P for my 642 Airweight. Nice review as always 💯🎯
Thank you sir.😎👊
Love watching your "real world" tests. Thank you! For the algarithim.
Appreciate that!
Just walked in the door with a new LCP Max! Perfectly timed video!
😎👍
Why? 9mm wasn’t tested here. Both tested penetrated great and would kill
@@AA-mk4pu The LCP Max is .380acp. It’s the gun used in this video…
That's what I expect from Hornady, in fact, that's about the best I would expect from them.
I have the exact model in Taurus. Glad to know what it can do to a gel target.
😎👍
Thank you very much…..Any more in my old age I either carry a 380 or a 38 snubnose In my pocket. When I was younger, I carried anything from a 357 magnum to an 18 round 9 mm…… You are fun to watch.
Great video as usual! Thanks for all you do for us on all these ballistics test! 👍
Thank you again, brother!😎👊
Basic rule of thumb is for every +/- 1" of barrel, you get +/- 50fps. Your chronograph results seem to reflect this. I imagine they tested these loads out of 4-5" barrels and that's what they slapped on the label.
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Well…. The .380 refuses to cooperate again. If and that’s a big IF, I slip my max in my pocket it’ll have fmj or extreme defenders. The .38 did how I was expecting both to do. Lots of great info to go on as always my friend. 👍🇺🇸
100% agreed.😎👊
Can I shoot you with my Glock 42? If you live I’ll give you $100,000
@@AA-mk4pu ….. I normally don’t respond to jackasses with a keyboard but actually read what I said. I never said 380 wouldn’t work. It’s idiotic people and comments like yours that have no business on a great channel like this.
Thanks for this video. Now I am confident with my wife's carry for her Ruger 380, for close range, 7' confrontations. I am surprised to see this similarity considering the weight difference between the 38 and 380. I am use to seeing more 38 spcl. to 9mm luger testing's, for similar weights. Your videos are always informative, interesting and to the point-Thanks.
Between these 2 looks like I'm sticking with .38 Special as I don't have anything in .380 always good info in these tests my friend I appreciate you. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
😎👊 Have a good weekend!
I really enjoy and appreciate all of the work you do on these tests. Would love to see 147 grain HST out of the P365 against the heavy clothing. Any plans for a test soon?
I'll see what I can come up with.😎👍
That's why I use thirty eight special plus peas out of my snubby
I don't have a dog in the .380 .vs. .38 hunt but found the video interesting and enjoyable. It would also be interesting to see how much difference a .38 +p makes over the regular .38 in a pocket revolver.
Appreciate that.😎👍
This is a great video. Thanks. We all carry small revolvers or small pocket 380's. WHich is better? I think you forgot to mention how many people just carry an extreme penetrator or a semi wadcutter/flat nose hard ball in little 380 pistols.
I've talked about and made videos on that several times. If I ever carried a small .380 like this, it would definitely be loaded with some type of solid round.
Enjoyed watching the comparison. Keep 'em coming.
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I’ve carried 45 through 22 and I currently have a 856 as a daily carry and love it. Only use my LC9 when I really need to be discrete.
Love this little 856.
I think they both need a little more velocity to perform well…trade off for using a 2” barrel. Cool Video.
Agreed. Thank you sir.
Fantastic video! I have both these firearms and have been considering this ammo! Super useful, thank you.
Interesting results that correlate well with other gel tests I’ve seen. Getting expansion from the 38 Special seems a little more predictable than the .380 ACP. I always default to Federal HSTs in the .380.
I wouldn't fault you for that. Tools has me sold on these Hydra Shock Deep for 380.
I should say he's not pushing them but they did perform very well and it sold me.
I didn't expect much, but the total lack of any attempt at expansion surprised me.
@@ToolsandTargets I’ve seen very few .380 rounds that actually expand properly, at least among the choices you can actually buy. Not to compare results but Luck Gunner has a pretty comprehensive list of the ammo they’ve tested as well. I finally just gave up on the pocket carry .380s. I like my LCP Max. It has been reliable and accurate but I’ve switched to my SP101 as my primary carry gun. I typically use two Buffalo Bore heavy, hard cast wad cutters followed by three Buffalo Bore heavy semi wad cutter 158 gr +P rounds, the FBI load as they call them. Then I carry a speed strip with Buffalo Bore low flash .357 Magnum JHPs.
@@yellowboxster06 I need to order some of those Buffalo Bore.357's.
@@davidgaines8607 Didn’t perform well will heavy clothing.
👍👍Thanks Tools, those 38s are a decent round. I use them in a couple of revolvers that are not +p rated.
Not too shabby.😎👍
Great test buddy, and just all-around and awesome video as always.
Thank you as always!😎👊
Great EQUAL TESTS.
Thank You!
Excellent “jelly time” as usual Tools 👍👍👍
Thank you sir. Appreciate that.😎👊
I run the defenders, penetrators or a flat nose in my 380. Good video. Thanks Tool. 👍🇺🇸
Thank you sir.😎👊
I have both. The Ruger 10-shot 380 is soooo easy to carry, easier than the wider .38, and therefore always on me. With premium ammo in both, the .38 will always be vastly superior performance wise. So I like both but only as for walking to the mailbox and piddling around the house guns. For me, and for many years, I carry a LW 1911 or at least a compact nine. BTW, I am addicted to your informative and well done videos.
Another good test, Tools! 👍
But, once again, your tests prove that, through fabric, expansion from any 380 JHP is unreliable, even the Hydra-Shok Deeps.
For us 380 users, a flat-nose FMJ or the Underwood Xtreme Defender and Penetrator are the only reliable choice.
Thank you sir. Agreed.
Enjoyed your presentation. Thanks. In 380 I would use the Underwood loading of the Lehigh bullet. The Xtreme Defender 68 grain standard pressure 1300 fps or +P 1400 fps. I believe Ruger says (I have the old LCP) that +P is not recommended. That new Ruger may say it’s ok. HP ammo in 380 does not expand properly. This ammo’s design is supposed to cavitate and make a larger wound channel. But is not meant to expand. Black Hills makes a similar round they call the Honey Badger which I have never tried. If you can maybe make a comparison in those rounds in .38 Special and .380. Thanks again.
Thank you sir. I have tested the Extreme Defenders and Penetrators in standard and +P .380 as well as the Honey Badgers. Those solid type rounds or an fmj would be my choice if I was going to carry .380.😎👍
The .380 barrel includes the chamber where the .38 does not include the chamber so they’re very comparable
But then you have the gas loss from the cylinder gap.😎👍
Barrel length is measured from the bolt face to the muzzle crown.
Great video I carry Hornady critical defense in my Taurus 856 and Hornady critical defense in my SCCY cpx 3 380 thanks for the comparison
Thank you sir. Appreciate you checkin it out.😎👍
That .380 was surprising. I expected some expansion, even through the LCP Max. They can't hide from the clothing test. It tells the story. Great video as usual.
Thank you sir. Surprised me too.
I’ll give you $100,000 if I can shoot you with my .380… you can wear a denim jacket and shirt…
Try some of Underwood's load of the XTP round, they load it 200fps faster than Hornady, I bet you those will stand up to the clothing 👍🏻 if not their 100gr hard cast +P round in 380 damn sure will.
Thanks for the test. The 38 did a nice job. Right now i still EDC a 9mm. But i am testing a compact 45acp. Have a great day.
I've actually though about picking up a little compact .45acp to have something other than 1911's chambered in it.
@@ToolsandTargets They are fun but a little jumpy.
I wouldn't carry a 380 myself, maybe a 38 special but I would like a micro 9mm. I'm not sure which one but a "best micro 9" video would probably be a good start. Not sure if you've done one or not but I'm pretty sure you have done a few of the most popular micro 9's. This is a really good test for everyday carry though. My 38 is too heavy that's why I just carry my M&P 2.0 c in 9mm. I need a lighter carry gun. Smith came out with a couple of new guns ,equalizer=new shield basically, shield plus, I wonder how they stack up against the Glocks, Taurus and Sig micro 9's? If you did that video tell me and I'll look it up.
Of course carry is a very personal decision and I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do , but the concept of pocket carry is in my opinion as a backup or if you have basketball shorts or something. Micro 9s suck to shoot. That's why 380 is popular. At least I hope people aren't carrying full size 380 pistols.
I haven't compared any but I do have a couple. Might have to look at getting a couple more.
s&w shield plus is my edc. ive shot most of the micro 9s and the shield is my favorite. great trigger and sights on it. no need for upgrades.
I like my Kimber Mako for pocked carry.
Would like to have a follow up shot on the .380 just to see if the results were similar to the first shot. Not sure a conclusion can be made with a single shot. Nice video. Thanks for all your effort. xCop
Only conclusion I need is that that round didn't expand in the slightest. Tells me all I need to know which I really already knew, that there's no sense in wasting time with anything other than a solid round from this stumpy .380.🤷♂️
@@ToolsandTargetsas your videos have shown, with the 380, you either get good penetration or good expansion but not both, so you’re better off getting good penetration to hit those vitals. I carry either round nose or flat nosed 380 rounds in my S&W Bodyguard.
@@gatorjohnny Thank you sir.😎👊
I use and carry both, a .380 acp Ruger LCP II and a S&W M-640, one is blued it rust in summer the other is stainles.
I find the terminal effect on every thing is about the same except the .38 spl is somewhat more effective due to bullet weight.
Thanks for this video. I've always been a fan of the .38 special round and revolvers too. I think that this combo is perfectly fine for people to carry also. I know that a lot of people will disagree with me but it works. Do you really need 10+ rounds for protection? I don't think so. Beyond that, good video and thanks.
Thanks tools for confirming what I already knew ! I tested those Hornady rounds last year and they all performed poorly , non expanded much . i run the deep rounds you tested in my lcp max
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Outstanding video! Id really like to see how the +P counterparts would do.
Thank you sir. Might be the little extra boost they need.
I prefer a .38 Special caliber to .380. I only recently purchased my first .380 in my long gun owning history. The LCP Max was the reason for that. 13 rounds in a package much smaller and easier to carry than a J-frame is hard to pass up. That being said I long ago learned that anything smaller than a 9MM I just use a good quality ball round and call it good. That is exactly what I carry in the LCP max. In a J frame snubbie size .38 I carry 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter ammo. I would feel ok with either most of the time in an urban environment. If I was going in the woods and could only choose from the two I would take the .38
A solid is definitely the way to go for .380 in my opinion.😎👍
The .380 performed a lot better than I expected
I think not expanding helped it.😆
@@ToolsandTargets not expanding wouldn’t change anything if you shot a person Bro… they die the same. Tell me what the expansion of .38 did to kill better than. 380… “the gel wounds are equal”.
@@AA-mk4pu That was my entire point, bud. 🤡
Another great practical test. Thanks!
Appreciate that!😎👍
38 did the job for many years☠️👍
Yessir
@Echosdad2 Jack Ruby's Colt 38 pistol fetched $220,000 at auction👍
Happy Friday, it's Jelly Time. Love these Chrono/jelly tests.
Thank you sir. Have a great weekend!
Anything that goes bang and makes a hole in your target is considerably better than a pointy stick.
Thank you for using two guns that people actually carry instead of the high end race guns usually featured in these tests. My EDC in retirement is either a light J Frame or LCP, depending on how I’m dressed.
The 38 out of rosei lever only 1 at a time hits hard and decent expansion
The only 380 I've owned was a Cobra derringer and I think it was the perfect round for a derringer. It was large enough to have some knock down power but small enough not to have too much recoil. I traded it off because I felt it was unsafe. I recently traded a Ruger LC9s for a Taurus 856 with a 2" barrel and I love it. I like the heft of the stainless steel and the recoil is not bad at all. I hated the Ruger LC9s. I wanted a revolver because the Ruger mag was very difficult to load with the athritis and gout I suffer with. The revovler is easy to load. Thanks for the video, it's good to see the results of your tests.
I think these small framed taurus revolvers are great.😎👍
I use the Hornady Critical Defense .380acp in a S&W M&P Bodyguard. My Bodyguard is equipped with fiber optic sights, a short trigger and a Crimson Trace Green Laser.
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Great test. I carry both and after test will continue to do the same.
Thank you sir. They'll do the trick.😎👍
My Beretta has a nearly 4”bbl, so the Critical Defense function perfectly. A little barrel length makes a huge difference. My revolver is a 3”, so it does well, also.
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.380 underwoods with a 10+1 in the pocket using the the lcp max. Comfortable to carry and plenty of up close and personal firepower. I want something with me at all times and this fits the bill.
Could you do another .380 gel test with the Ruger ARX round?
Love your video format.
As long as it is deep enough you can expect some debilitation. One should know that 1 round isn't enough. Double or triple taps is often called for. As long as the threat stops it's all good.
Yep
Tools you've don't it again, very good test. I'd like to see what that 38 would do in a carbine length rifle. Might be a good compromise for a 38/357 carbine. 380 had good penetration but I'd like to see some expansion, otherwise it's just like using a FMJ but at a higher $$$.
Be vigilant, be safe.
Thank you sir. I always forget I can run these .38 special defensive rounds from my lever actions.😆
I got my wife the Ruger .380ACP LCP pistol but I put 90 grain soft nose rounds as opposed to HPS! Superior penetration and they flattened out better than the hollow points!
I have the LCP for deep cover carry. With the critical defense round I know that if I don’t get expansion, I will get something like FMJ performance out of it. I carry it for the concealability of the firearm. The .380 still beats the performance of the .22 and .25 caliber firearms it replaced.
For my .38, I usually carry the Remington 110 grain SJHP round, but during the Covid pandemic and shortage of rounds I began carrying the 148 grain WC round. While it generally won’t expand, neither do most HP rounds. The WC round with its wide faced blunt bullet often becomes unstable and may tumble. It out performs the old conical shaped 158 grain LRN round. The greater bang of a +P round gives little increase in performance in the short 2” bbl.
I've been meaning to pick up some wadcutters to do some testing with.😎👍
I feel much better with the power of the 1851 Navy. Even though it’s black powder, it pushes a .375 83 grain ball 1,080 fps with over 200 ft lbs energy. That’s more than adequate.
💥💣💥
I actually use both of those rounds in the S&W 642 (love it) and the Ruger LCP Custom. My 642 has kind of retired my LCP since I got it last summer. Great test thanks
Appreciate you checkin it out!😎👍
Same guns and calibers but with Underwood xtreme defender rounds, love your videos!
Great choice. Thank you sir.😎👍
Or one of my favs the polish p64 makarov, I just bought xtreme defender ammo for it and put 2 clips thru it to make sure it would run it.
When your point out which is 380 and 38 with red arrows around 6:20 you mixed them up… great video as always Ty
Woops.😆 Appreciate that!
Tools, do you have any theory as to why, given the same diameter bullet, with the .38 having a little less velocity than the .380, it expanded and the .380 didn't? Do you think the same outcome would happen if you fired more than one test round into the jelly contraption? Curious...Great video as always!
Long live the jelly man...nice video. Do you have any ruger sp101 tools thinking about one for carry.
Maryland checking in..
I don't but my local shop has one that always tempts me.😆
LOL,
I just asked in one of your other videos for a 38 vs 380 video & then found this!
Awesome!
Thank you T&T, God bless you and God bless Israel!
Thank you sir. I read that comment a few minutes ago and was about to look for this link.😎👊
I destroyed my shoulder in my dominant right arm a year and a half ago. I've had two surgical procedures and am getting ready for a complete reverse shoulder replacement. I've carried the ruger max 380 in my left pocket that long. It's not what I want to carry, but all my rigs are right handed. 23 rounds of 380 beats a sharp stick any day. Enjoyed the video sir.
Thank you sir. Totally valid reason to carry this little gun instead of the usual "My joggin shorts wont stay up with a 9mm."😆😆😆
@Echosdad2 I wish you the same as well. Life sure can throw you a curve ball out of nowhere. I too have absolutely no strength in my right arm. You adapt and keep going. Nice talking to you.
@@Icarianbrother No, I did it at work, lifting up a lift gate on a truck.
Very useful comparison and test. Thank you.
Thanks for checking it out.😎👊
Great video thanks for posting it. Very close performance from both of these rounds. I've owned a Taurus snubby and currently own the LCP Max. Bottom line? Too close to call. They both punch holes and disrupt tissue. Holes bleed and tissue ruptures. The penetration is easily able to hit vitals and bones. So with proper shot placement either will get the job done. The 380 hollow point is very close to FMJ when fired from the LCP Max. One might be tempted to save some money and just run FMJ in it and get a similar performance .
😎👍
I carry and like the Underwood Extreme Defenders in my 380 and 38 weapons.
Great choice.😎👍
Thanks for all your hard work