My husband giving me the responsibility of fixing myself instead of having him hold me up is what MADE me help myself. He called the suicide prevention line for me and then said he can't handle the responsibility of my life like this any more. I never realized how worried he really was all the time. Once I realized that I was affecting him so much, it made me take some of the responsibility back because I didn't want to hurt him anymore. He was worried it would be too much for me, but it's exactly what I needed in order to take my own problems seriously and find a ledge to cling to.
One of the problems with society today is that it pretends to remove all responsabilities for women. Society and particularly movements like feminism treat women as spoiled childs that can do whatever they want without ever facing any responsability or consecuencies for their actions. They teach them that society owes them instead of teaching them what they owe to society, and that is becoming mentaly healthy, responsable and capable women that other people can rely on just as they rely on many men. "Improving yourself" seems to be an exclusively male thing today, and that should change.
You know, good for you, but the reality of men with the same issues you have is that “deal with it yourself” response is sort of the baseline we get any time we are in crisis. I’m not strong enough that I was able to make those necessary changes and so I was abandoned by partners many times. The prerequisite for being a male that is actually even considered a viable partner is a huge list of things that can be summed up as “has the appearance of being confident, mentally stable, and reliable without requiring help from others.” You can guess what loneliness misery and bad coping skills follow for those of us who don’t meet the criteria and haven’t climbed our way back out of depression yet But then again, going back to your original message, taking responsibility for our situation or even just believing you can change your life for the better with your own hands might be the most powerful tool available. Excessive coddling and excessive criticism in my childhood combined to make the worst of both worlds basically. Being a precocious, troubled sensitive kid is one thing, but I find that nobody wants to coddle a 26 year old man!
Shit all I know is I grew up with literally zero examples of healthy relationships around me and my parents never talked to me about girls EVER and they still don't. I'm 24 and I've never held hands with a girl. I've never attempted to talk to a girl or ask one out. Only in the last year have I finally BEGUN to develop a positive self image. Girls have shown interest in me throughout my life but I never had the confidence to believe they could actually like me. I've always felt ugly and inadequate. I'm unimaginably lonely but I don't know what to do. All I can do is keep going and work on myself. An interesting side note - I've been touched inappropriately by a woman at my workplace on multiple occasions and I felt uncomfortable about it but what am I supposed to do? I relate to Aba in that he chose not to see what women who abused him did as evil or ill-intentioned. But it's still confusing because I know for a fact that if I did that to a girl at work, it would be a very big problem. Not that I would ever do that of course. So the question is, do men and women have a different set of rules when it comes to dating and flirtation or not? EDIT: Thanks for the feedback and support everyone! I don't have time to reply to everyone individually but it's reassuring to know I'm not alone in this struggle. I wish you all the best of luck in your journeys. PS - Yo Dr. K lemme get on the show I've got a whole lot more than just what I mentioned above that's bothering me lmao
I'm sorry for what you experienced at your workplace. That is not ok, and the woman involved deserves to face repurcussions for that. Whether you chose to report her or not is totally your decision, but know you are valid for feeling angry, upset or frustrated. In regards to 'are these things different for men and women'. I would say, yes. But they shouldn't be. Our society has a lot of insidious gender roles that negatively impact men and women. One being male suffers of sexual harrassment/assault are not taken as seriously. This is of course wrong. Congratulations on the steps you've taken for your self improvement, it's paying off and will continue to do so. Take care 💙
Flirtation in women is seen as less treatening since in the overwelming majority of times sexual abuse comes from man, unfotunatley, and women are mostly the victims of it. If you add the toxic stereotype that men should always enjoy every kind of sexual approach, for whatever reason, you have the tendency to ignore cases like yours.
Sounds tough but honestly I get you man, I really do. The question you are asking requires me to give you answers on a couple 'levels', which I will try to do as honest as I can. Let me start by saying that, in my opinion, there actually do exist different 'rules' when it comes to dating. But I don't think that there is something like 'women's rules' or 'men's rules', I would rather say that these 'rules' are just different depending on the certain person. One important thing (now this is my personal opinion!) that you have to keep in mind that women are just getting too many signals, literally from everywhere. Women are looking for attention (Men do too, its very important fact to understand. We all need attention and acceptance). Girls usually get what they want and need (attention), because there are so many needy men out there who will leave comments talking how superb they look (sometimes bad, toxic comments). (Who are needy men you might ask? Well, all of us, all of men. We all need the same things that women do - which is attention and acceptance, but we don't really get that many comments from women, which leaves us 'craving' for their attention (we give them our attention through commenting on their pics, asking how their day was and all). We (men) tend to hide our emotions (bad habit) which makes this craving for their attention rather an 'inner' thing. Inner imagination. Inner dreams. Inner terror. Now, back to the topic. Imagine you are a girl and you are getting a ton of literally the same messages every single day. It is just tiresome when you get a pile of messages that ask the same question: "wyd?" "Whats up?" "How you doing girl?" ... thats the real problem. Girls then get used to giving short answers, because otherwise it wouldn't make any sense (Imagine yourself in such situation, I would go crazy getting repeated messages every. single. day). The key here is to be original! (No, sadly this is not done by showing them our bionicles collection or sending them a bunch of memes NOR by sending them a picture of our precious friend Dick (this is an absolute NO GO. Not acceptable. Although bionicles could work )) To be original you would usually need to do some stuff together, develop some inside jokes, experience literally anything in her company. Which is why people who get together are often from the same workplace/school/course/university and so on. The key here is NOT to get caught up in this craving for women. You do you bro. Focus on yourself, focus on your development. Don't lose any money on some onlyfans or whatever - it would just make you create a toxic and imaginary relationship, makes no sense. Spend time working on your own self (AND GOOD JOB BRO ON ACTUALLY WORKING ON THAT POSITIVE SELF IMAGE I AM PROUD OF YOU!!). Go for a walk sometimes, just to breathe in some fresh air. Get a hobby, just so that you could have some fun instead of browsing memes. If you are unhappy with your appearance, buy yourself some weights and start working out. Don't aim too high, don't aim too low. Its always about doing a certain exercise IN THIS EXACT MOMENT. Tell yourself: "I am going go do 5 push ups today". The next day same thing - " I am going to do 5 pushups today". Thats how you work out. You get the idea. If you are unhappy with your face or sth, get yourself a candle and a mirror. Light the candle and look at yourself in the mirror. Notice/describe the sensations that you feel, the emotions that arise. Its about noticing. Be grateful for what you have, be aware of what you need, be careful what you wish for. Am I sometimes wondering how it would be if I would be hugging a girl in my arms before going to sleep? Of course I am. Nothing bad I guess. Wish you all the best bro. Thanks for coming to my TED-Talk.
If you're worried your report won't be taken seriously, analyze the harm that behavior could do to workplace as a whole and present those arguments. Most HRs and bosses don't care about you, they care about keeping the company safe. When I had a crazy b**** talk to me inapropriately, I made sure to stress how her lies would lead to other women in the office to feel uncomfortable around me and how that would hinder business communication when I reported her.
Just wanted to say thanks, this helped me a lot knowing that I'm not alone. I'm only 20 but I'm in the exact same position as you (minus the work story you so courageously shared). I sometimes feel like at this point how could I ever start talking to girls after having gone 20 years with literally zero experience, how would a girl find me attractive if they knew that or how embarrassing it would be to tell them. Despite this still hold out hope that there's somebody out there for genuinely good hearted people, it just takes some time and some work.
This is one of a hand full of conversations about men’s issues that I feel is actually productive. A lot of it devolves into “women should kill themselves or go to war or be depressed more” instead of addressing why men are more prone to those things and discussing potential solutions.
Im a woman and i appreciate this talk a lot too. Some of the issues were shocking like how a man got assaulted by a petite woman but he couldnt defend himself because defending himself meant consequences for him. Also i got insight into how men saw women which is "they get to get heard but not us"
As a depressed person, I appreciate my friends who give me a space to be a bit more "normal." Depression is mine to handle. I look to friends for a bit of normal. Whether that's joking about something stupid or going out for drinks, talking about a tv show or talking about deep feelings. Not necessarily a distraction, just something normal.
@@sir.bendover3299 I guess they were supposed to say, "as a person living with depression," or something similar... But individuals can label themselves however they want. Also, as another depressed person, yeah. Same.
I think you are doing it the right way. Was in the same boat. I was severely depressed and even suicidal at times, and the normality of hanging out and doing normal stuff was a far, faaaar better medicine than talking about issues over and over again
@Sebastian Hauss The fuck were you saying with this "No reason to call yourself a depressed person, you are an individual. Society may try to put these labels, but these labels do not exist. The only thing that exists is you as you are."? Like, what? What the fuck are you talking about?
@Sebastian Hauss Honestly as another person "with depression" or a "depressed person", it really annoys me immensely when people try to tell me how I should think or view depression( In this context at least ). I struggled a lot coming to terms with whether I would even consider myself having depression and that in itself caused a lot of trouble. As well meaning as it can be, it still frustrates the hell out of me and can feel rather condescending at times. Like yes, I am a person probably capable of having a life outside of depression and it does not define me as a person but it still is annoying that people would try to tell me how a word relates or would "label" me. And yes, I do "label" or call myself as a "stupid person" too because being stupid is a perfectly human thing and even the smartest person in the world would do stupid things and labels do not wholly define a person. Sorry if I do sound a little mean in this but it is 4am and I'm pretty tired of people telling me what is when there can be and is so many different ways of interpreting things. Contemplating just deleting all of this because there probably is just something just lost in translation somewhere as text is not the best form of communicating ideas.
I think that part of the reason that feminists dismiss "men's issues" as a topic when they're brought up is that so often it's only brought up as a counterpoint to women's issues. Caring about men's issues is important, but your sincerity rings a bit hollow if you're only bringing it up to tear someone else down.
While I do agree that it's not good to take away from someone else's issues, I think it's important to keep in mind that men simply do not have anywhere near the platforms that women have to discuss their issues. If it's done in a manner such as, "I do agree that this is a major issue that all women face and here are my potential solutions for that. Now, that we agree on this particular issue, and so long as we are here to discuss issues that affect people based on their gender, another important issue that I think often goes unnoticed is this specific men's issue," then I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Sometimes, this kind of discourse is necessary for us men, since we have no significant platforms of our own where we can make our issues known to society, so sometimes bringing up our issues *alongside* women's issues, which are given more attention, in a way that doesn't deny or take away from the lived experiences of women, is our best chance at making sure these issues reach the masses. Any platform of our own in alternate media, not mainstream media, will be poisoned by misogynists and even when it's not, it will be framed as such due to a few bad apples, which every group is bound to have. I think men deserve a place in mainstream media, like a talk show perhaps, as discussed by Aba and Dr. K in this video, to talk about their issues so that men who are struggling can relate to and find guidance amongst each other in brotherhood and hopefully it will significantly decrease male suicide rates, workplace deaths, male genital mutilation, family court and general court outcomes, male disposability, etc.
@@AlaReDuS you have all space Ina. Fricking world to discuss it because men occupy every little corner on earth. YOU DO have reddit, 4vhan, Facebook groups, locker room, male politicians and male reporters to talk about men's issues (which are created by men from the past) You're so naive that you don't want to see that other men are the source of your problems and if you don't acknowledge that your never ever solve them. It's not women's duty to fix society and to fix men's issues
@AlaReDuS but maybe you need to also look into why there is such a platform for female issues. I mean historically as well as presently. Historically, women as a group have had to deal with a lot while having little agency or a lot less agency then the men around them. Remember, the point of feminism isn't just to achieve goals, then call it a day. It's to MAINTAIN the structures that we were finally able to have in place. That's why no matter what, feminism will always be relevant, and a lot of you don't seem to acknowledge this. If not downright, dismiss it. That is what makes us equally mad and equally ready to dismiss your talking points. Also, to a less but still important degree, you also have to look at the fact that not every single feminists will agree on everything and stop holding the entire movement accountable for how some will feel. Are there ways that patriarchy affects men negatively? sure! We can talk about them and voice ways in which both men and women contribute to them without only blaming women and saying feminism is the problem.
got me tearing up a few times listening to this... it's rough when your problems are treated as if they don't exist because someone else has a worse problem. ex. sure your grandmother might have cancer, but does that just stop you from having your physical/mental disabilities? no. that's how it feels every day for me too.
@@hayd3n98 true but the group of people that claim that their problems are worse usually do it to justify why another group of people’s problems should be ignored for theirs
This conversation holds so much truth about how many men feel. It's not like other people suffer less or more than men. We just all suffer in different ways and under different circumstances. And that's what people need to realise. Men are human. They have emotions and thus they also have the need to be heard and cared for. Sally that's often not the case. Mens problems and sorrows are being seen as less valid since men are supposed to deal with them.
the true idea behind people talking about toxic masculinity is to actually get society to hear men out. Toxic masculinity is about telling young boys to not cry and to not rely on anyone, and bringing awareness to it lets people know that this way is damaging to men. I know the term has been used as a tool against men sometimes but yall really need to take that power back and use it how it is supposed to be used. What im saying is, i think a crucial step to getting society to see men's emotions as valid as women's is to talk and bring awareness about toxic masculinity
@@CapeEniEer Exactly. Toxic masculinity harms men. Toxic masculinity limits the vulnerability/emotional range men are allowed to express, or the struggles they're allowed to discuss. It's THE primary men's issue right now, IMO.
@Unironik You're making such huge generalizations about women here, I can't even. This is the kind of stuff men say when they think they know how women think, when in truth they are just making assumptions. Stop for a moment to think that perhaps how you think women are isn't the truth necessarily. In general it's good to stop at times and question your own thoughts and worldview, think what shaped it and realize it might not be the objective truth of how things are.
God bless this crossover. Being wrongfully accused for something you didn’t do hits too close to home while the world paints you as a villain makes me want to tear up.
stop pretending you're a victim to a nonexistent crime. Nobody's wrongfully accusing you of anything, you just like to make stuff up as an excuse to be angry at women. The skull and bones pfp really cements your vibe as an edgelord neckbeard.
@@hermionestranger4964 I wish people like you understood the pain you cause strangers online. You don’t know the pain I went through. I hope you ask yourself why you are such a mean spirited individual.
@@hermionestranger4964 For someone who's been blazing through comments talking about how accepting they are, you sure loves to shit on people who may have legitimate concerns and/or problems.
@@hermionestranger4964 Seeth harder. Why even comment if you’re just going to invalidate personal experiences and be hypocritical towards people? Whatta loser lol
This was super fascinating. Like, halfway through when Aba was kind of triggered by toxic masculinity as a buzzword, and Dr. K made him unpack that and bring up this memory where it was CLEARLY traumatic, an event that formed his reactions forever? It was like, interview turned therapy session? That pause afterword where Aba kinda realized that THAT WAS EXACTLY IT sent chills up my spine.
Well, he is a psychiatrist! So far from all his interviews I've seen, they are all therapy sessions - he uses all counseling skills like building rapport, active listening, reflecting and paraphrasing, attending, and focusing!
When Aba started talking about his childhood experience at 1:22:00 I was stunned. That's exactly what has happened to me, and not only once, during school and childhood. Being wrongfully accused and feeling like the whole world is against you, at such young age definitely has a big impact on you.
Really digging this convo. I like how Dr. K gives the control of the convo to his guests. "may I take this call from my producer real quick.", "Can I ask this...", "Are you comfortable talking about..". It's easier to open up when you feel in control.
Male expectations aren’t talked about enough. I personally feel that is a major reason why I don’t feel happy enough in life, because I don’t think I can live up to what everyone thinks I should be. From family and friends, to a romantic partner. It feels like Mount Everest at times...where would I start to even climb that?
Well. I think you hit the same nail that aba hit. I don't feel exatcly like it's super hard to climb this. But there is no enough information on how to start, and how to progress. There is just a Picture of the top of Everest with the Writing "you must be here"
One thing to consider is this. Are the expectations that society and people around expectations you have or want for yourself? Something to think about is what would make you happy in life and then work toward that instead of what society tells you will make you happy.
I might be wrong but i feel like that issue is toxic masculinity and how it pressures men into unhealthy standards. I really think men should start using the term for their own benefit, to bring proper awareness to society, instead of hating the term
@@CapeEniEer if the term is misused enough times you start to hate it. Try setting your favorite song as an alarm, after one week you hate that fucking song and everyone who made that song. Also i think that most man want to be taking responsibilty and be better every day. the problem is that we don't have enough guidance to reach that goal. But maybe i'm just speaking for myself, i know happiest i ever been was when i reach the goal that was really hard (losing weight and do a triathlon) or when i'm helping others. I think that is also why Jordan Peterson is so loved by many. even if he has A LOT of flaws. Another problem is that some people don't agree with the responsibilty that they "should" take, in my case i don't want to have kids, but i think it's not a problem of toxic masculinity but society in a whole because woman have the same issues.
@@CapeEniEer I understand where you're coming from the idea behind it BUT the term "toxic masculinity" is conservation poison and sensitive to a lot of men.
This is so interesting. It's what I imagined how therapy should go: if the patient gets unusually emotional (anger, disgust, passion, excitement, sadness, etc.) about some words or some concept the therapist mention, it's like a lead -- likely something that has bothered the person for a long time. The therapist should chase the lead, which is EXACTLY what Dr. K did here. In the therapist sessions I went to, if I got super excited or angry about something, and he/she would distract me and get me to talk about something else, as if I had behaved inappropriately, and/or that I made him/her feel uncomfortable. The session would end and I would feel like I did something wrong, and I wouldn't get any useful feedback about it from the therapist. This happened to me with several therapists... and I felt really discouraged about psychotherapy. Glad Dr. K is doing psychotherapy right!!
I had a similar experience and stopped going to therapy. It felt like the therapist (younger newer therapist) was trying to take a nap. I didnt have real problems, but was definitely depressed, and I came out feeling worse than when I went in
Sadly you're right. Just how we look back 40 years from now and see that things have not changed (or changed for the worse). I feel like topics and problems such as these will not die any time soon
@@silversoul5285 you are already living in it. I remember watching a video from a boomer generation guy talking about quite the similar issues in regards with relationship and dating. I remember how my optimism for the future was destroyed as I realized that we are living on a loop, destined to have the same problems, struggle with no progress or actual solutions... So yeah. I TOTALLY understand where you're coming from.
Jesus Christ with this type of defeatist attitude in this comment thread, ofc nothing is going to change. If we want shit to change then we need to make a effort to challenge social norms. If feminism can change shit up for women in the past 100 years, then men can do it to.
Something that grinds my gears more than anything is the belittlement of peoples issues. "oh there's starving kids in Africa" "oh you cant complain your a man." nothing frustrates me more than that, my suffering is my cross to bear and other peoples is there's. That's not to say we shouldn't collectively try to help one another, that's how we collectively get through setbacks and conflicts, but taking someone's issues or discomforts and telling them their problems don't matter because they're x y or z as though that wasn't a completely random outcome from melanin content of skin color, to the ethnic background they were born into or even whether they were born as a man or a women is so despicable. Imagine a loved one or someone your close to dies and your grieving and someone tells you "that's no reason to be upset there's people dying every day." As though every memory, experience, connection etc. you had with that person just doesn't matter and never did because you don't have it "the worst off." In what way does being the most miserable person validate your struggles as though being more upset, depressed, stressed etc make you somehow more qualified to speak on someone else's suffering? I heard some amazing advice a while back that to this day I live with, and it's that "you have to treat yourself like you are a member of your family. You wouldn't just let a member of your family be hungry, or live someplace that's unclean or spend all of their money. You need to respect and love yourself the same way you would a mother or a father or a sibling." Your suffering is yours, it's a member of your family that is suffering and you want to take the initiative to change it. That is your right as an individual to want to and work towards being happy, hell it's a constitutional right.
For me, that and the dismissal of people’s lived realities because of the condition they are in really grind my gears. It’s incredibly frustrating to hear people dismiss the pain and suffering others are going through on the basis that they are poorer, of a different skin color, of a different religion, different education, different political persuasion, etc. It’s so very common, and it’s difficult to challenge that kind of thinking because it’s so widely accepted and encouraged, I myself struggle trying to make sure I avoid doing this every day. As one example, a lot of people might dismiss Republicans as being stupid or poor and therefore deserving to suffer from bad outcomes (like having less access to medical care, having a lower quality of life and life expectancy, etc.), as if those criteria justify the suffering that people have to go through. And yet, a lot of people who use that rhetoric are viewed as compassionate and caring about human rights, unrightfully so, in my opinion.
@@potts995 I myself am stupid and poor so I could never dismiss Republicans that way but I don’t believe that’s why most people around the left-wing and/or liberal part of the political spectrum dismiss them because of traits that can’t be assigned without knowing people individually but rather traits that can be discerned by voting patterns. For instance, voting against social welfare or single-payer healthcare or climate action or campaign finance reform, or virtually everything that might be considered “good” according to one’s political persuasions would give a logical basis to dismiss them as not deserving the “good” those proposals would allegedly bring.
It's always the people with the easiest lives who say that shit lol. Like someone who grew up in the suburbs with 2 parents making $100k/year, telling me, an autistic person who grew up in a trailer park with both parents making a combined whopping $40k/year with an abusive father, to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or whatever.
people mostly say that to try and get others to think about what they've got and try to be a little more contented. Of course, it can be dismissive, but telling people to count their blessing can be quite helpful at times, and can stop them from being too unreasonable.
Have you been hit with the "Women are being raped and murdered but we shouldn't care about them because your feelings are hurt" talking point that is always thrown around everywhere yet?
I can really relate with Aba's story here about the snow forts. My sister grew up 5 years older than me and I always dealt with this guilty till proven innocent ideology with my dad. (My parents were divorced at a young age and lived separately.) So whatever my sister wanted, she could get not only physically with her being the age of 12 to my age of 7, but she also got mentally. My dad would hear her whining and immediately set his sights on me being the issue (I wasn't perfect I was a bad kid but this was without exception.) So eventually as the years went by not only would I be "put in place" by my larger than me sister but my dad would join in and reinforce that lesson after she was done. He'd see my 9 year old fist hitting my 14 year old sisters arm and it was over. It wasn't frequent but it happened enough times to keep me from fighting any battles even the ones I was clearly correct on and that feeling of "toxic masculinity" or suffering in silence as presented here was omnipresent in my day to day. You get to that point where all battles aren't really worth engaging in.
Learned helplessness is learned helplessness. I have to remember girls can dare getting hurt and boys hurting is valid and worth consoling because of the habits I picked up before professional childcare, to approximate even treatment...it feels like a worthy goal with toddlers.
@@vegan.3176 I think it was her way of redirecting the aggression, using me as a family scapegoat. Therefore all of the problems and issues that persisted throughout our day to day throughout the family was because of me. Blaming me as the only way to make sense of the situation and a way to offset her onset perfectionism as the golden child. No doubt the way she acted towards me is a reflection of what she thinks of herself especially with how critical and hypocritical our parents were.
Yeah but it's part of the process right? When you first learn any sport, you will have lots of unnecessary movements which hurt your game. Your attempt to correct those errors would not be controlled so you'd end up overcompensating and again hurting your game in the opposite way. As you gain foothold in this mess, you slowly start to correct the mistakes with relatively less overcompensation with a sharper view of the actual problems. In this case though, it can lead to a lot of unfair treatment and that sucks, but that's where we are at.
@@Hemlocker I agree with most of what you are saying, but I don't see why my analogy breaks. Ahh I see. Yeah I don't see it happening fast by any means. Part of the process is that it's slow as hell on its own. A "teacher" definitely would help accelerate that process to some degree, and yes, most people don't have the right "teacher" to go to right now. I don't think we can make this balancing thing happen properly and quickly though. Setting a goal like that is like going to therapy for PTSD and putting the goal that you should lose the PTSD within one session. A goal like you should see improvement sounds more realistic..
Another way you can think of it is a pendulum. Swing one way, if you want to get to the centre, you'll inevitably end up swinging too far the other way first.
Could you maybe name a couple of examples of rubberbanding in history? I feel like humans tend to do the opposite, but maybe i'm not remembering some important stuff.
Great conversation. About the last topic, I had that experience when my mom told me she was afraid I would hurt myself after many years struggling on and off with depression and anxiety and it really changed our relantionship for the best. I started viewing her as someone I can rely on and share my problems and I got better.
What this really showed me is that we need more talking between male and female communities about their issues so that people can realise they're the same issues. For example when they were talking about male sexual assault they were making valid points but missed that a lot of the male victim's reactions are the same as any assault victim (incl women)- it's a common psychological response to freeze up and not do/ say anything when being assaulted, it's also common to want to downplay your own assault afterwards and call it 'disrespect' rather than assault as generally people don't want to be seen as a victim. Common understanding would go a long way I think
true, and not only do men and women react in similar ways to that kind of abuse, it can happen to anyone regardless of their physical stature. I have a male friend who was a very innocent kid who was assaulted by classmates for a prolonged period and despite the fact that he's huge and could in theory beat most attackers half to death now, he was traumatized so badly that even verbal confrontations make him freeze up. simplistic thinking about this stuff is a dead end
This is exactly what I was thinking. That's a very heartbreaking anecdote, just listening because as women we are constantly scared and on the lookout for this. It is never ok but I find a sense of comfort in the fact that with these anecdotes men can put themselves in the place of victims and be more empathetic. I still see men being way more dismissive of sexual assault with both genders (sexes?). I hope this brings everyone closer together
23 here and jesus christ does alot of this speak to me. The most is one dating. No one taught me and im looked at as weird for not knowing or trying. People feel even weirder about me when they know i was in the marine corps
While listening to this, I realized what did it for me, similarly to Aba's story about the snow forts and being accused. I was AMAB and when I was in second grade we were all in the computer lab and the teacher walked out for a minute or two and when he walked back in, he saw a girl (tallest in the class and I was by far the shortest person in the class) trying to punch me in the face and I tried to put my hands up to block it and accidentally hit her on the chin. Didn't hurt her at all, don't even think I could have if I tried. I hadn't even done anything prior, I was just the runt of the class so everyone picked on me because it was easy. I was immediately brought to the principal's office and when they brought this girl in for me to apologize to her, she immediately apologized to me. She told the teacher that she started it and I shouldn't be in trouble. The principal told her not to stand up for me and that what I did was inexcusable. I got suspended and forced to write an apology letter and she got told I was the one in the wrong, even though she attacked me. The only good thing that came out of it was the fact that I guess she actually did feel sorry for it because even though it was never brought up again, she stopped physically bullying me from then on. Teasing and name-calling yes but that was more peer pressure because I don't recall anyone else in the class not doing that.
That's similar what has happened to me, and not only once during school and childhood. Being wrongfully accused and feeling like the whole world is against you, at such young age definitely has a big impact on you.
I hope fewer children will be put trough such experiences going forward. Leaving a classroom where bullying occurs especially in primary education is baffling to me to begin with but having so low awareness as to punish a victim for defending them selves is adding onto that failure.
I used to have a friend who because I just poked her belly(a game we both used to do call out our attention) was accoused from harasment by her just because her crush were nearby and she want to be "defended by him"
Don't know if this has been the experience of other men, but as someone who is trying to make the transition from boyhood to manhood without a father figure: it's hard to be a man in a society that seems to confuse traditional masculine values with being a bad person.
People are trying to attack masculinity, sucide rate for men and younger men is sky rocketting because they are being fed and told to not be stoic but to not solve it either. Overthinking small things and underthinking big things and doing things you don't even want to do. Women don't know how men feel and think that somehow talking about our feelings would improve or something even though it's usually used against us in the future. I don't want to talk about what I think I want to be comfortable talking and know that someone is listening vs doing it for the sake of it and pretending to understand. Even if someone doesn't understand I wish they would admit it, instead they have to pretend and try to relate it to themselves which usually does nothing.
I'm with ya there. I want to be successful and I want to make a lot of money, but if I do I will be told I am supporting the oppressive patriarchy and told I am toxic. But I think we as men are equipped, or can be, to live in a world that doesn't really like us for being men while still being strong, loving and generous. It'll just be harder, but we got this.
@ivan Kolic It’s like you didn’t watch the video and internalize that it’s not a who-has-it-worse competition.it’s about acknowledging that we both have struggles and we need to get to a point to solve them
@ I think that mental framework actually creates the fundamental issue being discussed. The reason men’s issues aren’t taken seriously is because there’s this human desire in society to express “I / we suffer more”, as in, an inherent human desire to be recognized for our suffering. The fact is, generally speaking, we all suffer equally (at least in modern 3rd world countries; assuming that’s where the majority of this discussion is taking place). So what’s going on here? When we suffer, it feels bad and we desperately want to solve it. Very few have the training and knowledge to navigate these emotions so when we don’t have an immediate solution, the mind will actually default to victimization. This essentially tells the brain “you’re suffering but it’s not your fault, it’s theirs” and gives you a sense of empowerment and relief - as strange as that sounds. Kind of in the same way someone whose not hungry will eat when stressed without realizing the reason they’re eating. When asked why they ate, they would likely respond with “I was hungry”. The core issue is a disconnection with our emotions and the unconscious, often involuntary, conditioned pattern of behavior. This is why our personal data is so wildly valuable - humans are predictable and can be easy manipulated to buy (amongst other things) without our awareness. So right now, socially, women being recognized for their suffering actually empowers them, giving them a sense of comfort and reassurance that their feelings are valid (which is great and needs to take place). However a macro-social level, where novelty and extremism gets the most attention in media - the message becomes “Women are oppressed and it’s men’s fault”; likely due to media’s attempt to be as polarizing as possible to attract attention (I.e. ad revenue) and by generating a perpetrator, it relieves the “oppressed” of responsibility. If these polarizing ideas are allowed to spread without discourse (like this video) these concepts permeate our culture and skew rational perspective and perception (I.e. truth). Another interesting question I would present is; at what point can past history no longer skew the perceptions of current day reality? Shit, this is complicated and there’s a lost more to it but I’m tired of typing on mobile. Essentially we’re in a power struggle between who is more victimized . We have to collectively agree that everyone suffers or the blame-game will continue indefinitely, further polarizing our collective humanity and creating even more division across all identified human forms. So essentially what I’m saying is; by responding to this argument with “isn’t it worse for men“, the feelings that motivate that message stem from the same fundamental problem that’s deprived men from their own expression and representation of social oppression; I.e. “but I suffer more”. If we can all agree that we all experience the universal condition that is human suffering, we can rid ourselves of this unconscious power struggle and collectively bring attention to the immediate issue at hand, and at the same time, not ignore other forms of suffering. It’s as if there’s this strange notion that there’s a finite amount of empathy and everyone is clamoring to steal it. In reality, we can shine the spotlight on individual issues as needed, while at the same time keeping the floodlight of empathy across all forms of suffering.
Intersectionality is still a Feminist issue, wether it's about acknowledging men's Mental health struggles, their excessively punitive or military exploitation by some or simply having a chance at getting custody of their children. There is a lot of harm perpetuated by (gendered) expectations on people.
Aba talking about what happened when he was a kid mirrored something that happened in my life. Differences being I was 7 and I was still believed for being the perpetrator even years later.
When i was 10-11, me and a girl was talking shit to eachother, it was in winter so it was icy and we were standing ontop of a hill. She pushed me and i slipped and slided on my face down the hill. She immedietly went to the teacher and told her that i said mean things to her. When i got back into class with my whole face bloody, the teacher started yelling at me for being mean to her. And i was just like "ehm, why you yelling at me? she did this to my face", the teachers response was "well maybe you shouldnt have said those words to her then". That got me so fucking pissed. No matter what happens, the girl is the victim and the boy the perpetrator.
@@KevinUchihaOG i moved around schools alot as a kid and because of this i got bullied alot and the girl bullies were infinitely worse than the boys because with the boys, the teacher could sometimes recognize bullying as it was happening and would step in and also generally we would end up getting into a fight and then becoming best friends but with girls the teacher would ALWAYS take their side no matter what, boys would always take their side, literally ive had a situation where a girl was just hitting me and laughing while another girl egged her on and when i finally pushed her off of me she started crying and her friend started screaming "he hit her!" And i had no fucking idea what to do and even after explaining what had happened and that she was objectively in the wrong i was still punished for what happened.
It can be kinda obvious and cliche, but I think it needs to be better taught to stand up for oneself. Even though one can feel helpless, if you did absolutely nothing wrong I think it should be fine to REFUSE any punishment or allegation. And honestly fight for your innocence. Sometimes it seems like people don't realize that any child is capable of lying even without malicious intent. The least I think a teacher should be capable of is leave it be if they don't have hard facts.
@@FrozenThai a child cant just refuse punishment. Its not up to you whether or not you are punished and its a lot to ask of a child to stand up to an entire school administration and usually their own family.
@@KevinUchihaOGLol just reading that made me angry. I had similar experiences (not quite that bad though) and it made me basically avoid interacting with girls for most of adolescence. I felt like a predator/threat or something without even doing anything. It took until adulthood for me to start interacting with women normally.
Interestingly enough, after watching Dr. K I have felt my self confidence improve to the point that I've been going on successful Discord dates, and while I don't think it would've been a train wreck beforehand, Dr. K has helped me see my own value and step away from desparately seeking affection. It just goes to show that all these pickup artists and red pill dudes aren't what you need. What you need is confidence and self worth, have that and people will be attracted to it. The beautiful part is once you have that, you won't be as desparate for a girlfriend and be accepting that it'll happen when it does.
Absolutely loved this episode (especially with how much nuance could be covered due to their communication skills). That last section really helped me understand some of my role for my siblings. Watching that section timed out literally less than an hour after I was venting/discussing what I should do to help my loved ones through depression. Thank you Dr. K!
One thing I've noticed with progressive people trying to discuss men's issues is that they'll identify the problems as the male identity and the men and the solution is that men need to do better. They wouldn't dare do this with any other demographic: 'black people, women etc', they would blame society for thier issues. I think that we need to look at men as a product of society, rather than the enforcers of it. That way, we can help them without being victim blamey
Kind of ironically, the same solution is applicable. There are society-level solutions that need to occur too, but if individuals put in the work to do better we would all be better for it. Not to mention, change begets change, as well as inspires others to change. It only takes a few actors, good or bad, to affect change on a wide scale; we observe this all the time.
@@MaejorArray ''created by people that aren't marginalized'' You don't know that at all, you are just assuming a white man's suffering is not caused by marginalized people when I can name you 4 situations where this was the case.
@@WrathofFenrir99 To be fair, for a long time women were paid less because they used to be housewives. If they were already in the workforce and not denied money/education by society (patriarchy), the Industrial Revolution wouldn't have set the wage standard so low for women. That said, I'd argue that individuals in general make less because of capitalism and business, and the gender changes depending on the kind of employment. Like I mentioned, the Industrial Revolution is evidence of this. It's reasonable for employers to want to spend less money, but this absolutely should not be achieved through gender discrimination, regardless of who is affected.
I mean, when people refer to toxic masculinity, that's really what they're talking about. The role of men in society (one could call it a patriarchy) over the past centuries has negatively stereotyped women, men, and their relationships; it encourages men to act a certain way to women (high sexual assault rates), discourages expressing sympathy or emotion (high suicide rates), is inherently anti-LGBT+, and limits all genders in terms of employment (men are more likely to be hired in male-dominated fields, and vice versa). And even though it's called "toxic masculinity," it can also be perpetuated by women. I think there's an unfortunate misconception about the term that makes not-progressives dislike it, as if it's an attack on men in general. But you can like traditionally manly things like cars or sports without feeding into a society that puts people in traditionalist boxes.
yeah it's basically "men caused men's problems so suck it men!" even though the vast majority of men who have ever existed had little to no say in the way society is structured
I saw Aba speak with Destiny recently, it was my first time hearing him and he was lovely to listen to. I'm tired of there being a negative stigma around men's issues and the fact that men aren't purely and only to blame for the way they behave.
@@GR33TINGSEARTHL1NGS Yeah it's society enforcement of gender roles that are the blame, which make it so that men never be the victims or women can be the bullies. But, lucky modern feminist especially in the education field are tacking these issues. Also, yeah red pill movement have really hurt men's issues, espically since they don't talk about it all instead how women are toxics beings.
@@goldenwarrior4727 also most redpill stuff i've seen has been about stating the surface level issues without ever going into depth, because if you do you realise feminists want the same thing, and that's impossible because feminists bad.
The same way people see male CEO's, governors, soldiers, etc and say "males have higher status and have have privilege" Other males see that and say "i am male, i need to work harder, get higher, earn more because im the one who is supposed to provide"
Sexist stereotypes are a double edged sword like that imo for everyone that doesn't fit the stereotype. You could say that it's a luxury for women to be able to not have to spend a day at work and spend 100% of their time around people they love, but some women also implode because of the lack of life fulfillment and power, and also try to satisfy their ego using their family members. I guess it's not the same, but it's a lot easier to give women jobs than give men the right to be poor. I'm pretty sure that's categorized as a political thing anyways.
Men gravitate towards those higher earning / status proffesssions because women overwhelmingly gravitate towards men who earn more / have status. If I were a lizard looking dude like Zuckerberg, my best mating strategy would be to become ultra wealthy. So men have a significantly higher motivation to put the in 100 hour work weeks to become a successful CEO. whereas men don't care what women earn. It's women driving this incentive currently. Although it's understandable, the most vunerable time in a woman's life is pregnancy, if a man can't demonstrate an ability to provide and protect, you're probably going to be a poor choice. Which lowers the survival chances of your offspring. Even in first world countries like the US that don't have universal healthcare, a poor provider puts your offspring at greater risk if they can't provide, not just in pregnancy but in the upbringing.
This is the first time i saw a conversation with Aba, and man, i love how articulate and thoughtful he is. Whish more people would be even a little bit like that. Edit Typo
Aba Atlas is right in the sense that a lot of unwarranted expectations are put on us men as part of our traditional gender role in society, and we don't have the tools to fulfil those expectations. But at the end of the day, we're not the ones who are in the wrong for not having those tools, because those expectations are put on us from the outside, and aren't necessarily bound to what we want to achieve as at a personal level. Aba said it himself, that when he succeeded in dating lots of women, as it was expected of him as a man, he didn't really even enjoy it that much. So maybe the social expectations of masculinity are themselves the problem, they make us depressed and insecure if we don't fulfil them, but doing so doesn't make us any less depressed or insecure, what's worse, we often deliberately hide how we truly feel about them, because we're not even expected to be emotional and have feelings. This is why I believe it's important to take a critical approach, and question those expectations to forge our own personal path, instead of forcing ourselves to accomodate.
It reminds me of the question Dr. K mentioned in other video, “do you love winning or do you hate losing?”. This sounds like a case of hating “losing”.
RIght! I can't make accomodate to make everyone happy. we are humans, not a restaurant. Society can change a lot in a matter of months and it would become different world.
real talk, i think that is one of the biggest problems that face mental health, people are afraid of saying and being who they really are to avoid judgement. type in “patrice o’neal talks honestly with dylan gadino” on TH-cam. that interview completely changed my life. it taught me how to be my real self in the face of pressures to act and think like everyone else in order to feel accepted and fit in. the interview is with patrice so it is also hilarious.
I wish I knew that when I had my one and only gf. I literally dumped her because my friends were giving me so much shit about it that I just couldn’t take it, because they thought she was gross (she wasn’t). None of those guys are my friends anymore so if I had gotten away from them sooner we might have had a better chance 😢.
The worst part about talking on men's issues is that they always have this expectation to be couched in the language of what men can do to improve it and how men were the ones that ultimately caused it and no responsibility can be placed on women for it. It's the exact problem that gives men these issues, but they literally cannot address it because the problem has consumed men's issues as a topic of dialogue too. There's literally no place where a man will not be shamed, except for radical communities.
@@user-yz6wb7wb1g Not really. I'm saying that general dialogue around gender is like this. Sure, women are *a* cause of it, and we could do a whole shitload better than we do, but "women are the cause" is an incredibly simplistic, vague overstatement. Many men play into it as well.
@@TheJesterInYellow what I'm hearing is how ironic it is that self-styled egalitarians and feminists who engage conversations about men's issues can't get past the idea of men exclusively being the source of and solution to their own problems, am I correct?
I disagree; it seems like the radical ones are doing the bulk of the shaming. Most "regular" people I know can acknowledge that both men and women contribute to social problems and have unfair expectations placed on them.
I had a situation last New Years at a party where an intoxicated coworker was continuously sexually harassing me (verbally and physically). I went and sat outside for some fresh air and she followed me, tried getting on top of me to make out. I grabbed her by the hips and pushed her off me and told her to leave me alone. She got up crying because I wouldn’t fuck her and went back to the party and told her male friends I put my hands on her. Ended up fighting 2 drunk guys and having to defend myself from false allegations. Its impossible to win in those types of situations as a man.
Staying in public is the first thing girls get tought in these situation, having (at least) an informed buddy second and calling out that behaviour in a way that's resonate third. I don't know if any of this could have been applicable, going forward I hope increased awareness can extend the social protection I enjoyed to you.
@@carlogustavovalenzuelazepe5774 Thats not true though. Women definitely get harassed and nothing happens to the men. The women get labelled badly and eventually fired for something else. Many women believe its pointless to pursue a course of action even criminal as the process will paint them badly and ruin their reputation. So please be careful about writing these types of statements. It doesn’t help anyone.
I feel like saying "all men are trash" is saying "im not the problem, you are" . It removes the responsibility of self improvement from yourself and is instead placing blame on .. the entirety of the opposite sex . Another way of side stepping accountability , I feel.
I mean for one thing, if someone actually says that unironically they clearly have a lot of issues themselves. I have to say I haven't heard more than 1 or 2 people say that in my lifetime. And in those instances, usually worded something like "straight men are the worst," they were clearly joking. But I don't have Twitter or a ton of friends so idk.
Well I hardly value anything I read online. I've heard it my fair share of times in person. And majority of the time it is coming from a person that clearly has some personal issues , that they do not see at all. Partly because they dont believe they could possibly be the one needing to make any changes , therefore believing it must be every male with the problems, not themselves. I personally dont value what most people have to say when they start any sentence with "All ( insert group )" because I believe all people differ on an individual basis
@Unironik i don't think that we should say all men are trash, but by saying that women seem to be unaccountable, that just continues the gender war forward. Instead of it being a back and forth between men and women, we should say things like men and women are unaccountable and not one more than the other
Wow powerful stuff. It's like someone holding a mirror up to you and saying you are the problem. I use to think women had it so much easier and was upset they were marginalizing my suffering, but I was doing the exact same thing to them. We get so caught up in our own egos, that we rarely see that we ignore what others are going through and only focus on ourselves. Thank you for the video.
Growing up as someone who's been expected to eventually be a man at some point in my life, being treated to these kinds of scenarios has mentally torn me apart: 1:22:54 Snowfort story My entire childhood is made of stories like these in which I'm actively made to feel like garbage by a mob of people. Not necessarily beginning with the crush detail, but the rest for sure is quite the relatable experience. Each time fingers would point, they went to me simply because someone chose to speak up and name me quickly. This happened from 5th grade all the way until I was a senior. The only way I could have reasonably escaped this would have been to drop out of school, but that was the exact opposite of what I wanted. Said differently: I felt trapped and surrounded, and I felt that there wasn't a single thing I could do about any of this. Cut to 28, I discover that a majority of my developmental hardships are very likely attributed to ADHD and problems with emotional regulation, and that I am also on the autism spectrum. I'm 30, so I've been spending 20 years trying to avoid situations in which the choices of other humans aren't my problem. I think I finally feel free from it all. I think I feel comfortable growing myself without worry that being targeted or assuming that having attention paid to me will affect me negatively. Even if it means that I'm in the way and a that I'm a problem, I think I'm here to stay.
i had a story from when i was in 3rd grade i got gifted a cool pencil with decals on it from a teacher and then there was i test i believe and a girl took it from me then i was annoyed and she was fake crying and the teacher did not like me
Dr K's ability to interview is amazing. The pacing, circling back, the pauses, making the interviewee feel in control etc 💯 / 💯 Would love to be taught by him.
As sad as it is, this is the first time i'm truly understanding the feelings of a man. I couldn't imagine being in a man's shoes- that feeling of shame, inadequacy... All the time. That's so fucking heartbreaking- It's insane how... blind, i was, to this.
@@southpaw97_ Im not sure i really heard about them much, tbh. Its very much the sort of thing you have to specifically search for. The only things i would hear would be stuff about how like men always have to pay, and just the basic sort of complaints men have about women (Which, valid, but also... I dunno. thats a whole fucking shitshow in and of itself, of just men and women arguing about shit but never LISTENING, understanding each others side and stuff. Another point i want to make too, is that... somehow, i didn't fully realize men had a full range of emotions, until I saw my dad crying for the first time when i was 18. It was a weird moment. He was hard on the exterior, like most men are. Aggressive, too. Never the sort to cry, but always the sort to get into a fight if need be. I dunno. It's a weird thing, and i think... For the women who DO listen, and understand about shit like this (Men's specific issues), it could help them to really be transparent about... things you've been conditioned to hide/not show. And also, I never once realized the massive struggle of initiating. Nobody e ver *showed* me it was a struggle. It was always just... how it was. These things need to be talked about more, i think. In a open, and kind, and understanding atmosphere.
@moonycorn4914 ah I see. Yeah and showing emotion for me is actually really hard as a guy now. Only now when in 26 do I really try to be more expressive instead of stone faced as much as possible. And as for initiating things, most guys now it's a zero sum game. ESPECIALLY for those who, like me are so self conscious and have no confidence that the fact that we have to initial everything, is already an Everest to get over. Not to even mention the high chance of rejection. And even if she say yes after all this effort, only to be used as a ATM and a free meal? Why try? And to some degree I support the feminist movement in its effort to make women more outspoken and in charge of what they want but there also the undercurrent of women supremacy and "kill all men". So what's a guy suppose to do ya know? And then you hear women say "where have all the good men gone?" Hah.
@@southpaw97_ Facts, I entirely understand what you're saying. God, it seems like such a weight on the shoulders to carry around, by default.. Just for being a man. If i were a man, i'd honestly consider a women *expecting* a guy to pay for her meal, as a red flag. That shit screams entitled, jesus. Also, this might be a little odd, but you seem really nice. Would you want to be friends on some other platform, by any chance? Strictly friends!
I didn't expect to cry today. The last segment really got me. I had one of my best friends take their life on a friday and I remember I had the chance to hang out with them earlier that week. I was tired and already in bed playing Xbox, he comes to visit like he always did. I just didn't feel like getting out of bed. That was the last time I had the chance to give him a hug and remind him that I loved him. The idea that maybe I was one of the last beacons absolutely crushes me. But, at the end of the day it happened as it was intended. Rest well my friend. I still love you and always will.
Wow, I loved this whole discussion. Everyone has their struggles. No one's struggle should be dismissed regardless of gender, age, or sexual orientation.
Wow, I loved hearing Aba talk! He speaks so precisely, and I love how when he gives relevant psychology information he always double-checks them with Dr. K to make sure he's not saying something misinformed. Plus, he just speaks with so much humility and respect. By far my favorite guest on this channl!
holy shit! discussion about men's issues is for the first time intellectually stimulating without toxic bias. two emotionally understanding men having a discussion the men of the internet need.
@@charginginprogresss he said the first time men's issues talked about without toxic bias But that isn't true and feminist have alot of toxic bias is what I was saying
@@ki11atj49 Generalizing about "feminists" (and you are far from alone in this) is a sign of a lack of any real knowledge about feminism beyond superficial polemics found in the mass media and social media. Feminism is 200 years of numerous ideas and decades about the legal and social status of women - many of which do not agree with each other. The kind of criticism of "feminists" you're regurgitating is one that the American right loves to rehearse. Sadly, it is little more than a propaganda and distraction technique. I would advise against falling for it. They are taking you for a fool. I would recommend you look into the fuller range of ideas and debates within feminism. You'll probably find, as almost everyone does, that you already agree with a number of feminist perspectives. And you might even be surprised to see the ones you disagree with represented more accurately and fairly.
@@blaqueknight he might plan his responses to questions. I do that when I know I have conversations. Like chess. I plan all my answers on what I could be possibly asked. Great introspective technique, and helps pre-formulate your sentence articulation.
"why didn't you see it as abuse" Because society paints abuse as being violently beaten and chastised, just like people don't realize you can be raped by your partner.
I just think it's sad that a decent chunk of the comments and replies under this video are insinuating that this is the exception and conversations about men's rights are "usually toxic." It seems like the only parts of this movement that get consistent mainstream attention are the toxic minority, and that's depressing. I hope this movement gains traction and becomes a catalyst for sweeping social change. Edit: Man, the amount of victim-blaming and gaslighting going on in the replies is...expected, actually. A bit of information for you guys: no, men did not create the laws and policies that cause discrimination today. Rich, white, landowning men with a mountain of political power did. Telling men that it's "a problem we caused" is idiotic because it was a system designed to disadvantage all but a few of us from the start. As for the alternatives presented, MensLib is a respectable movement when it comes to combatting your own biases, but it lacks a lot of the pushiness that allows for sweeping social change, and can get a bit "women most affected" sometimes when talking about men's issues. Feminism was never about men. Some of the issues they combat will benefit men when they're abolished, but only if they benefit women as well. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It's a women's rights movement. But to claim that it solves all the problems men have while witnessing the rampant whataboutism that occurs in feminist spaces whenever issues such as male suicide and bias in family courts come up, I'm not feeling very confident in its ability to address them.
@@SamPatricio7 Usually, the movement that discusses these kinds of issues, while also being pro-feminism and/or viewing these problems through the lens of things like patriarchy, is called the "Men's Liberation Movement."
@@miro5031 The draft shouldn't exist, period. But thats not an issue of rights. It's a shitty govt policy invented by men as well. As for speaking on men's issues, that's also not an issue of rights. That's a cultural problem created by...guess who, MEN too. What you need is liberation from these problems men have created for ourselves. You want to know what the solution is? Feminism. Ironic, isn't it?
Something I just realized is that I spend so much time watching Dr. K videos and being super interested in them and learning a lot that I never actually put into practice what I learn because I'm too busy watching his next video lmao. Guess I need to curb my Dr. K addiction.
Man I dont wanna sound arrogant but being 19 and educating myself on all these different topics and viewing it from both sides and philosophy gives me like a head start and I can be prepared better for life.
I stay away from the red pill movement; not because I disagree with them that woman like taller and more successful men, but because there alot of bitterness and resentment against woman that I didn't want anything to do with. But this dude came off as quite wholesome and mature
Bingo. Most men can settle for their equivalent of "Red Pill 101" videos were they learn to express a bit more confidence and get rid of the passive, "nice guy" shtick, but once they start advocating men treat women like sex toys that like to be treated like crap, or start spouting stuff like "repeal the 19th" then you gotta bail out fast
@@hazardousjazzgasm129 I won't claim I've watched all red pill content creators, but I haven't seen any of the bigger ones say anything like this. The repeal the 19th stuff is exclusively in the comments. Don't disagree there's alot of toxicity in the "communities" though, but there are alot of incels or recently shafted in divorce court dudes who are clearly angry. But women can openly sh1t all over men and get zero blowback, men are held to a much higher standard. If you want proof of this, go look at the comments from women in the recent UK police officer murdering a woman story. I'll see if I can find the Facebook article with comments if you want. Women are unironically saying men should have a curfew so women can feel safe walking the streets and thousands of women are agreeing with almost no pushback. This kind of anti male toxicity will NEVER been seen as negatively. And this is just a news story with regular women airing their anti male views. You go into feminist Facebook groups and look at they talk about men... The all men are trash memes. And if you call this out, you're an anti feminist alt right bigot. The double standards are rediculous TBH
@@jamesbarnett6772 the red pill community (the people in the comments) often volunteer their time to provide the "blowback" you say women don't receive. Everyone is being attacked somewhere on the internet, our responsibility is not to develop victim complexes about it.
I’m what world is teaching men to be confident and find value in themselves as well as improve their physique and muscular structure a bad thing ? People hate on red pill because it exposes the ego women have and the hate they have towards men they deem as inferior. Red pill exposes the progressive agenda that women try to push on men and label them as evil, and liberals don’t like this being exposed
In my experience the snow fort incident was a "reconfirming event" from an earlier and emotionally similar "critical modifying event" that took place around the age of four. In my experience we set up future experiences to resolve earlier betrayals but in end they turn into "reconfirming events."
The thing about suffering is that just because someone has suffered more than someone else doesn't invalidate someone else's suffering. Suffering is suffering.
Emotional intelligence is a poorly defined term made up by a journalist. For you to define new trait, you have to find a way to measure it and distinguish it from other already well definded traits, which concept of EQ fails at.
This was Amazing, I honestly am so happy to see someone shedding light on men’s issues finally, even if we’re not all the same our problems can be correlated in some ways and I actually have a lot of problems and my own experience with most of that stuff Aba mentioned.
Not very far into the video but Aba’s description of thinking about issues on a macro-level versus a micro-level is really beautiful and eye-opening. Hierarchies do exist in society and each level may generally have different issues from other levels which should not be ignored, but at the end of the day it’s also important to look at individuals, because there are people of every gender, race, financial status, etc. who suffer.
Anyone else watch these and try to apply his advice and logic to your own issues because your country doesn't give a shit about mental health and anything online is far, far outside of what you can ever afford? Just me?
Yep healthygamergg is extremely helpful for an Indian like me, in a country which doesn't give a crap about mental health currently. The cool thing is thing a lot of the concepts Dr k presents (like dharma, karma, nyaan, vidya, samskaar, samadhi) are all words which are prevalent in the Indian lingo. So I already have an intuitive understanding about some of the stuff Dr k says, but truth be told if Dr k wasn't good at teaching these things, I would've probably treated these ideas as just another Indian spiritual woo woo superstition. Anyway Dr k has definitely changed my life, I feel content with the person I am now once I figured out my past undigested emotions, started meditating and have a sense of purpose. And it didn't cost me a penny. I'm glad the internet exists so I don't have to cross countries simply to get good quality mental health advice.
how come you two are so freaking smart and respectful? damn. i wish i could be like that. thank you for this talk. and yeah, that isn't worth much, but if i could, i'd give you the freaking fifty thousand likes and stuff. really, that channel and the guests have been one of the most inspiring things in my life recently. it feels like us, the broader masses, are finally using the new tech for getting a shared deeper understanding of our world instead of just internalising the ads and tweeting nonsense. like some very important part of our collective consciousness is awakening right here.
Pausing at 35:03 since it made me think of something. It's amazing how disconnected generations are. The idea of a man teaching his son how to approach women sounds like fiction, and I think that is also a perception problem since I feel many men are like "well I got lucky, I dno why she even likes me." And I mean, when would you teach your son these things? If they're too young it's probably just weird, if they're 16 or older they're probably not wanting to even talk to you about these things; if they're mid-20s or older than they may even have more experience than you. I myself am not a father, and while my dad worked hard to support his family, there was VERY little teaching involved. I think roles have a place, but when those roles are cemented in a society where a man needs to work every waking hour so his kids can live, who will teach his kids about being a man? Thoughts like these really send me down the path of extreme cynicism; our world is so screwed up on even the most basic and fundamental levels. There are many more glaring problems that need more immediate fixes, but I think this one is overlooked simply because it takes an entire generation to see its effects. I may also be projecting my own failings and inadequacies, but my experiences are my experiences and it's difficult to break past them.
Ideally your dad spends a lot of time with you and also out and about and you just learn by watching the interactions he has with others. I don't think it should be some weird.. "ok here's how it works.." but that can help too. The weird thing as well is that men always meet their partners on their own and so then I meet them coupled up but never saw the actual process. It's such a weird thing.
Dr. K, would you consider making this magnificent crossover into a series with Aba? This was an eyeopener. Maybe Preach too, both of them + you are three of the most insightful men I follow online and applying advice I've heard from you has put me into the path I've always wanted to walk but never conceive I would ever be capable let alone dare of walking so I'm sure more people in need of some guidance we lacked during our upbringings could benefit from such project. Much parasocial love from Mexico. 🌼🖤
That's likely one of the most important conversations about these topics I've watched in a couple of years navigating through these red pill/menosphere communities.
Wow It's Rare that my issues and/or fears bring tears to my eyes because I often feel so calloused but I cried a few times throughout this. Even though I don't really have a way to go to/afford therapy for myself, these videos help me finally feel as though my struggles are understood and I don't feel so alone. Also, it helps me feel less bitter and angry so thank you so much for that. I've seen a few of these videos done with a few of the creators I watch now and after this one I definitely subscribed.
My observation is that we (men and women) sometimes are expected to just know how to do the role we fit into. I’m talking form a female perspective rn, but this seems to apply to everyone. A common phrase I have been told is “as a woman you should know how to do X”. It’s almost like it’s expected that u should know it form default, whit no training. Now I haven’t herd it too often, it happens every now and then, usually for other women. For instance, how to be a mum. In reality it takes knowledge and training. And even tho you have the stereotype of all the other mums giving the pregnant woman advice for everything, it’s also somewhat just expected of you as a woman to just know what to do, at least core abilities. (Maybe I’m wrong here, I don’t have children, so corrections are welcome) The reason I’m mentioning this is that it sounds just like what they talked about around min 20. You are expected to be the provider as a man, even when you have no real knowledge on how to, and u feel overwhelmed by the responsibility. If I’m not wrong, this is called entropy in sociology. It’s a sense of lack of order and structure. If then leading to you feeling a lack of this to act. It happens though big changes in society or it can be experienced on a smaller scale. Like if it’s ur first time at a fancy restaurant, and u haven’t researched the etiquette - you will feel out of place and don’t know what to do. Emile Durkheim entropy as a part of his theory and studies around suicide btw (his data handling have been criticized, as for when he noticed married men had a positive effect, while the married women often a negative, his solution was so “sacrifice” the women.) Great conversation, and important to represent all struggles of our society!
I never even thought that other men would have experiences like mine where people of the opposite sex (or even the same sex) would put their hands on me in a flirtatious, sexual manner and I wouldn't want it. His reaction to it, the way he said he used to react to it is exactly the way I did too. Oh, it is what it is. Forget about it. But we shouldn't, should we? There are a lot of tough conversations I've never had happening in this video and it's made me very uncomfortable but hopefully it's a good thing they're being spoken about. And a good thing for me to feel uncomfortable bc it's being spoken about. The experiences of Aba are so close to mine on SO many levels. I don't know that I could have been able to speak my truth as well as he has here.
Growing up with sisters, I've heard many all-female conversations. What I've noticed is that whenever one of them would start a new relationship, the first question about the new boyfriend the other girls asked would be: "What's his job?!" With the heavily implied: "He is not a moneyless loser, right? You're not with this guy just because you like him, right? There's money in it for you, right?" How many times did the job/income of a new girlfriend come up in an all-male conversation? Precisely zero times. Do with that what you will. And yes, I know that it's anecdotal. But given that in all studies I'm aware of the two most predictive variables for men's success in dating were a) their socio-economic status (real earnings) and b) their educational status (potential earnings), I'd say it is a rule more than an exception.
@@spencechan Girls care about the hotness as well. A lot. They seem to care about the same things as guys, plus the money. How much of that is their own desire for a rich partner, and how much is imposed by family and friends is an interesting question.
Lmao that's such fucking bullshit. I know how guys talk about girls, and guys absolutely talk about the income of their girlfriends. There are loads of guys out there who don't want to date some broke-ass person -- but according to you, not wanting to be with a loser is somehow superficial and gold-digging. And what guys talk most about are: how little they paid for the chick; how the chick looked; and how easy it was to get sex from her. Lots of guys think that dating is just free/cheap prostitution. And while they expect women to give them lots of services without anything in return, they whine about women being "gold diggers". How hypocritical. I've never heard of a girl saying, by the way, "what's his job?" I think it's just your family being assholes (which is apparent, given the way YOU behave as well). You and your relatives sound like shallow nimrods. Ever communicated with people outside of your household for a change? Or like go to a Reddit, AskWomen, AskMen, whatever? "in all studies I'm aware of" -- that's probably zero. As for socio-economic status and educational status, you have absolutely no idea why those might even be success factors. Education -> intelligence -> good sense of humor and interesting personality. This is why students often get married in grad school -- they are on a similar wavelength. And by the way, this is regardless of sexuality or gender. I have met plenty of guys who would give a woman a hard pass if she didn't have an education or show intelligence in conversation. People with lower salaries or without income/financial stability are likelier to have emotional/mental trouble, not be able to pay for a date, and not have time or opportunity to date. How would a woman who has to work two fast-food shifts meet a guy? How would a guy who has to work night shift in a factory meet a chick? I'm giving hetero examples but the same applies to any sexual or romantic relationship. I know this because while I was an undergrad I was unemployed for quite a while, and had zero time outside of college. People with more money and better-paying salaries have more opportunities and confidence to go out on dates. Your whole comment is just nonsensical whining. Gee, and at school boys would say "men are rational, it's women who are emotional!" -- but you guys are behaving like toddlers who are angry at not getting a date, so you vent against women. Here's a conundrum for you: how about men's rights without insulting women based on experiences you cherry-picked from your past and strawmen that you made up???
24:49 I didn't/don't have that either. I never even go to my parents for advice. I think the best thing to do in this situation is asking friends who are ahead of you. But I think it's important to learn how to bring it up - don't open with "I don't know how to approach women", be more specific with something like "how do you introduce yourself to women" and keep asking questions.
This is great advice in many situations. I've often found that my old-fashioned parents have the worst advice about dating or making friends in the modern age. Instead, I make friends the way I think is right, and then I ask them for advice just like you do. I also like to often ask strangers for advice across different platforms/message boards, just to get outsiders' opinions, even if I don't usually act on it.
I’m alone on this lol. Every friend/person I asked about this just told me something along the lines of “you aren’t what women like so just don’t try, and don’t ever ask me about this stuff again.” Takes the whole “you have it or you don’t” concept to another level.
I remember when I was a kid and we were doing something in class that had us all huddled around something (I don't remember what) but then some girl whispered something to the teacher and the teacher got mad at me and didn't tell me why. She just told me to flip my green card to yellow(no recess) and go back to my desk. I was pissed but I obeyed and went to my desk and put my head down in frustration. Then the girl said I wasn't paying attention or something so the teacher told me to flip my card to red(parent call and detention) which was frustrating cause I couldn't see anything regardless since they were all huddled around. When I flipped my card and went back to my seat, I was then accused of flipping other people's cards!!! I was just continuously accused of things I didn't do as a 6 year old and looking back it might have been sexism or racism or something. There were so many other scenarios that played out that reinforced both possibilities. Nowadays, I usually avoid other people, especially women so I don't get manipulated or gaslighted. I just wish I didn't have to doubt people's intentions constantly and live in paranoia of being put in a kafkaesque situation again.
You should tell the story of how you and Mrs. K got together, how did you two know that you can completely trust each other with all your vulnerabilities? Edit: Very helpful interview by the way, thank you for doing what you do, both of you. Thank you both.
It makes me feel like a wimp when i agree with anything in this podcast. I hate that i feel like that. Keep up the good work guys, maybe one day i'll be able to face my feelings without feeling like absolute shit. (before you respond: i live in eastern europe, it's normal here)
You need better friends. Also Eastern Europe here and there is a bunch of toxicity like that here. But thankfully it festers in friend groups not really culture in general. At least I feel like that. We had a big group of friends, smoking weed and being street bums and thankfully we weeded out toxic people and grew closer and found others who were similar that joined in. It also helps that I'm not scared to talk about stuff like that so it made it very clear who is toxic and I was many times surprised who was actually very emotionally expressive when they got the chance. Big scary dudes suddenly talking deep with you (especially when you are in a smaller group or alone with them). Don't be content with those feelings and people who don't allow you to express yourself. GOOD LUCK AND LOTS OF LOVE BROTHER.
There was a comedian named Patrice O'neal (RIP) who had very insightful views on this issue. He based alot of his comedy around it and he has alot of material on his show "The Black Philip show"
I always get criticized by other girls when I say I feel bad for men sometimes because of the immense pressure of having to be forward and in charge and put together. Not to say that I can't take the initiative in pursuing a man or a leadership position, but there's a difference between *can* and *should*. Masculinity has become defined by such shallow, abnormal and damaging things. And the expectations ladies have has become ridiculous. And you can't even be like "fine, forget it I'm not conforming" when these are the rules to play the dating game. I have women in my family who belittle their husbands (as if it's okay) instead of being supportive and building them up and wonder why the men are prideful and resistant towards them.
As someone who started playing mmos before COVID and got into endgame during the lockdown this "expectation of competency" hits the nail on the head PERFECTLY.
1:00:00 Interestingly enough, where I live in Australia, football shows have kind of started to branch out into these. Mostly men (but not exclusively) but will do segments talking about mental health and the like. Still a long way to go but it is an interesting recent trend.
I am 28 years old. I have never had a girlfriend and I am a virgin. I have been bullied and abused but never loved. All I ever wanted was to be with someone. But I am a reject and I don't know how to get dates and therefore I can't get an opportunity. I needed community, sharing and caring. I needed emotional bonding. I needed to be able to give and receive love and affection. It's too late now. Life and society are cruel, cold and hateful. Everything is colored by cruelty, callousness and hatred.
I'm 19 and i already expect myself to be forever single even though my looks are fine. I really feel you, people seem like brainwashed wicked npcs and the best girls are 2D ones. It's a classic. Living and growing up is hard when you are (supposedly) the only one around who knows how pure platonic love is important. But i still believe that i'll stay true to myself and maybe will get lucky enough to stumble across someone =)
Hey man, I know it doesn't seem like it but it's not too late (my mother even knows someone who had her first relationship over the age of 50). First you should take away some pressure and importance in finding a girlfriend. Sure, I get that it's a deeply human need to have someone to love, but for now, focus on self-love. What can you do to gain confidence? Practice self-love, social skills, personal/professional skills, get active etc. Also, if you do have people you're close with, ask them for help.
Dude, I was bullied all through highschool which left my socially scarred for a long time. I got my first girlfriend at 30. It's never too late. Don't feel hopeless, you have to keep trying
I recently had a woman tell me that I shouldn't feel bad about the phrase "Kill all men" because it's the same as being told "No Running" How can you feel attacked when you're not the one running? honesty I was so shocked and confused by the statement that I couldn't even come with a proper response. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. If I was to make them one to one the phrase they uses as an example would be changed to "Anyone who runs should die" And truthfully and honestly I don't understand how you can tell somebody to their face that you hate them and expect them not to feel something.
I say they most likely don't even understand or ever thought it out. I know alot nice people that I know would do bad thing of they didn't have to follow rules. They live a life with no introspection.
really enjoyed that conversation, the end got me hard because I lost my "beacon" some time ago and it was so hard. Through this community and also new people around me that have become "beacons" for me I'm able to enjoy life again and function, thanks Dr. K your work changed my life.
“The right partner is not someone you find but someone that you become” wisdom at its finest
It's so true
My husband giving me the responsibility of fixing myself instead of having him hold me up is what MADE me help myself. He called the suicide prevention line for me and then said he can't handle the responsibility of my life like this any more. I never realized how worried he really was all the time. Once I realized that I was affecting him so much, it made me take some of the responsibility back because I didn't want to hurt him anymore. He was worried it would be too much for me, but it's exactly what I needed in order to take my own problems seriously and find a ledge to cling to.
Gj getting help b4 it was too late!
I appreciate some people like you stand back and look at themselves. Congrats on your journey.
This is wholesome
One of the problems with society today is that it pretends to remove all responsabilities for women. Society and particularly movements like feminism treat women as spoiled childs that can do whatever they want without ever facing any responsability or consecuencies for their actions. They teach them that society owes them instead of teaching them what they owe to society, and that is becoming mentaly healthy, responsable and capable women that other people can rely on just as they rely on many men. "Improving yourself" seems to be an exclusively male thing today, and that should change.
You know, good for you, but the reality of men with the same issues you have is that “deal with it yourself” response is sort of the baseline we get any time we are in crisis. I’m not strong enough that I was able to make those necessary changes and so I was abandoned by partners many times. The prerequisite for being a male that is actually even considered a viable partner is a huge list of things that can be summed up as “has the appearance of being confident, mentally stable, and reliable without requiring help from others.” You can guess what loneliness misery and bad coping skills follow for those of us who don’t meet the criteria and haven’t climbed our way back out of depression yet
But then again, going back to your original message, taking responsibility for our situation or even just believing you can change your life for the better with your own hands might be the most powerful tool available. Excessive coddling and excessive criticism in my childhood combined to make the worst of both worlds basically. Being a precocious, troubled sensitive kid is one thing, but I find that nobody wants to coddle a 26 year old man!
Shit all I know is I grew up with literally zero examples of healthy relationships around me and my parents never talked to me about girls EVER and they still don't. I'm 24 and I've never held hands with a girl. I've never attempted to talk to a girl or ask one out. Only in the last year have I finally BEGUN to develop a positive self image. Girls have shown interest in me throughout my life but I never had the confidence to believe they could actually like me. I've always felt ugly and inadequate. I'm unimaginably lonely but I don't know what to do. All I can do is keep going and work on myself.
An interesting side note - I've been touched inappropriately by a woman at my workplace on multiple occasions and I felt uncomfortable about it but what am I supposed to do? I relate to Aba in that he chose not to see what women who abused him did as evil or ill-intentioned. But it's still confusing because I know for a fact that if I did that to a girl at work, it would be a very big problem. Not that I would ever do that of course. So the question is, do men and women have a different set of rules when it comes to dating and flirtation or not?
EDIT:
Thanks for the feedback and support everyone! I don't have time to reply to everyone individually but it's reassuring to know I'm not alone in this struggle. I wish you all the best of luck in your journeys.
PS - Yo Dr. K lemme get on the show I've got a whole lot more than just what I mentioned above that's bothering me lmao
I'm sorry for what you experienced at your workplace. That is not ok, and the woman involved deserves to face repurcussions for that.
Whether you chose to report her or not is totally your decision, but know you are valid for feeling angry, upset or frustrated.
In regards to 'are these things different for men and women'. I would say, yes. But they shouldn't be. Our society has a lot of insidious gender roles that negatively impact men and women. One being male suffers of sexual harrassment/assault are not taken as seriously. This is of course wrong.
Congratulations on the steps you've taken for your self improvement, it's paying off and will continue to do so. Take care 💙
Flirtation in women is seen as less treatening since in the overwelming majority of times sexual abuse comes from man, unfotunatley, and women are mostly the victims of it. If you add the toxic stereotype that men should always enjoy every kind of sexual approach, for whatever reason, you have the tendency to ignore cases like yours.
Sounds tough but honestly I get you man, I really do. The question you are asking requires me to give you answers on a couple 'levels', which I will try to do as honest as I can.
Let me start by saying that, in my opinion, there actually do exist different 'rules' when it comes to dating. But I don't think that there is something like 'women's rules' or 'men's rules', I would rather say that these 'rules' are just different depending on the certain person.
One important thing (now this is my personal opinion!) that you have to keep in mind that women are just getting too many signals, literally from everywhere. Women are looking for attention (Men do too, its very important fact to understand. We all need attention and acceptance). Girls usually get what they want and need (attention), because there are so many needy men out there who will leave comments talking how superb they look (sometimes bad, toxic comments). (Who are needy men you might ask? Well, all of us, all of men. We all need the same things that women do - which is attention and acceptance, but we don't really get that many comments from women, which leaves us 'craving' for their attention (we give them our attention through commenting on their pics, asking how their day was and all). We (men) tend to hide our emotions (bad habit) which makes this craving for their attention rather an 'inner' thing. Inner imagination. Inner dreams. Inner terror.
Now, back to the topic. Imagine you are a girl and you are getting a ton of literally the same messages every single day. It is just tiresome when you get a pile of messages that ask the same question: "wyd?" "Whats up?" "How you doing girl?" ... thats the real problem. Girls then get used to giving short answers, because otherwise it wouldn't make any sense (Imagine yourself in such situation, I would go crazy getting repeated messages every. single. day). The key here is to be original! (No, sadly this is not done by showing them our bionicles collection or sending them a bunch of memes NOR by sending them a picture of our precious friend Dick (this is an absolute NO GO. Not acceptable. Although bionicles could work )) To be original you would usually need to do some stuff together, develop some inside jokes, experience literally anything in her company. Which is why people who get together are often from the same workplace/school/course/university and so on.
The key here is NOT to get caught up in this craving for women. You do you bro. Focus on yourself, focus on your development. Don't lose any money on some onlyfans or whatever - it would just make you create a toxic and imaginary relationship, makes no sense. Spend time working on your own self (AND GOOD JOB BRO ON ACTUALLY WORKING ON THAT POSITIVE SELF IMAGE I AM PROUD OF YOU!!). Go for a walk sometimes, just to breathe in some fresh air. Get a hobby, just so that you could have some fun instead of browsing memes. If you are unhappy with your appearance, buy yourself some weights and start working out. Don't aim too high, don't aim too low. Its always about doing a certain exercise IN THIS EXACT MOMENT. Tell yourself: "I am going go do 5 push ups today". The next day same thing - " I am going to do 5 pushups today". Thats how you work out. You get the idea. If you are unhappy with your face or sth, get yourself a candle and a mirror. Light the candle and look at yourself in the mirror. Notice/describe the sensations that you feel, the emotions that arise. Its about noticing.
Be grateful for what you have, be aware of what you need, be careful what you wish for.
Am I sometimes wondering how it would be if I would be hugging a girl in my arms before going to sleep? Of course I am. Nothing bad I guess.
Wish you all the best bro.
Thanks for coming to my TED-Talk.
If you're worried your report won't be taken seriously, analyze the harm that behavior could do to workplace as a whole and present those arguments. Most HRs and bosses don't care about you, they care about keeping the company safe. When I had a crazy b**** talk to me inapropriately, I made sure to stress how her lies would lead to other women in the office to feel uncomfortable around me and how that would hinder business communication when I reported her.
Just wanted to say thanks, this helped me a lot knowing that I'm not alone. I'm only 20 but I'm in the exact same position as you (minus the work story you so courageously shared). I sometimes feel like at this point how could I ever start talking to girls after having gone 20 years with literally zero experience, how would a girl find me attractive if they knew that or how embarrassing it would be to tell them. Despite this still hold out hope that there's somebody out there for genuinely good hearted people, it just takes some time and some work.
Whoa what a great conversation by two very interesting guys. Many eye opening moments for me as a woman, thank you for openly sharing
This is one of a hand full of conversations about men’s issues that I feel is actually productive. A lot of it devolves into “women should kill themselves or go to war or be depressed more” instead of addressing why men are more prone to those things and discussing potential solutions.
Im a woman and i appreciate this talk a lot too. Some of the issues were shocking like how a man got assaulted by a petite woman but he couldnt defend himself because defending himself meant consequences for him. Also i got insight into how men saw women which is "they get to get heard but not us"
@@Zantho98 I second this. Roma is an absolute queen, especially considering her history with surviving an abusive relationship
Wonder why Aba's video was taken down? His recording of this same conversation was taken down.
@@audreymai2773 real shit?
As a depressed person, I appreciate my friends who give me a space to be a bit more "normal." Depression is mine to handle. I look to friends for a bit of normal.
Whether that's joking about something stupid or going out for drinks, talking about a tv show or talking about deep feelings.
Not necessarily a distraction, just something normal.
@Sebastian Hauss why and what's the alternative?
@@sir.bendover3299 I guess they were supposed to say, "as a person living with depression," or something similar... But individuals can label themselves however they want. Also, as another depressed person, yeah. Same.
I think you are doing it the right way. Was in the same boat. I was severely depressed and even suicidal at times, and the normality of hanging out and doing normal stuff was a far, faaaar better medicine than talking about issues over and over again
@Sebastian Hauss The fuck were you saying with this "No reason to call yourself a depressed person, you are an individual. Society may try to put these labels, but these labels do not exist. The only thing that exists is you as you are."? Like, what? What the fuck are you talking about?
@Sebastian Hauss Honestly as another person "with depression" or a "depressed person", it really annoys me immensely when people try to tell me how I should think or view depression( In this context at least ). I struggled a lot coming to terms with whether I would even consider myself having depression and that in itself caused a lot of trouble. As well meaning as it can be, it still frustrates the hell out of me and can feel rather condescending at times.
Like yes, I am a person probably capable of having a life outside of depression and it does not define me as a person but it still is annoying that people would try to tell me how a word relates or would "label" me.
And yes, I do "label" or call myself as a "stupid person" too because being stupid is a perfectly human thing and even the smartest person in the world would do stupid things and labels do not wholly define a person.
Sorry if I do sound a little mean in this but it is 4am and I'm pretty tired of people telling me what is when there can be and is so many different ways of interpreting things. Contemplating just deleting all of this because there probably is just something just lost in translation somewhere as text is not the best form of communicating ideas.
I think that part of the reason that feminists dismiss "men's issues" as a topic when they're brought up is that so often it's only brought up as a counterpoint to women's issues. Caring about men's issues is important, but your sincerity rings a bit hollow if you're only bringing it up to tear someone else down.
This
While I do agree that it's not good to take away from someone else's issues, I think it's important to keep in mind that men simply do not have anywhere near the platforms that women have to discuss their issues.
If it's done in a manner such as, "I do agree that this is a major issue that all women face and here are my potential solutions for that. Now, that we agree on this particular issue, and so long as we are here to discuss issues that affect people based on their gender, another important issue that I think often goes unnoticed is this specific men's issue," then I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes, this kind of discourse is necessary for us men, since we have no significant platforms of our own where we can make our issues known to society, so sometimes bringing up our issues *alongside* women's issues, which are given more attention, in a way that doesn't deny or take away from the lived experiences of women, is our best chance at making sure these issues reach the masses.
Any platform of our own in alternate media, not mainstream media, will be poisoned by misogynists and even when it's not, it will be framed as such due to a few bad apples, which every group is bound to have. I think men deserve a place in mainstream media, like a talk show perhaps, as discussed by Aba and Dr. K in this video, to talk about their issues so that men who are struggling can relate to and find guidance amongst each other in brotherhood and hopefully it will significantly decrease male suicide rates, workplace deaths, male genital mutilation, family court and general court outcomes, male disposability, etc.
Yeah when feminists keeps breaking down everytime we try to do something. Thats what they get
@@AlaReDuS you have all space Ina. Fricking world to discuss it because men occupy every little corner on earth. YOU DO have reddit, 4vhan, Facebook groups, locker room, male politicians and male reporters to talk about men's issues (which are created by men from the past)
You're so naive that you don't want to see that other men are the source of your problems and if you don't acknowledge that your never ever solve them. It's not women's duty to fix society and to fix men's issues
@AlaReDuS but maybe you need to also look into why there is such a platform for female issues. I mean historically as well as presently. Historically, women as a group have had to deal with a lot while having little agency or a lot less agency then the men around them. Remember, the point of feminism isn't just to achieve goals, then call it a day. It's to MAINTAIN the structures that we were finally able to have in place. That's why no matter what, feminism will always be relevant, and a lot of you don't seem to acknowledge this. If not downright, dismiss it. That is what makes us equally mad and equally ready to dismiss your talking points.
Also, to a less but still important degree, you also have to look at the fact that not every single feminists will agree on everything and stop holding the entire movement accountable for how some will feel.
Are there ways that patriarchy affects men negatively? sure! We can talk about them and voice ways in which both men and women contribute to them without only blaming women and saying feminism is the problem.
got me tearing up a few times listening to this...
it's rough when your problems are treated as if they don't exist because someone else has a worse problem.
ex. sure your grandmother might have cancer, but does that just stop you from having your physical/mental disabilities? no. that's how it feels every day for me too.
When you look into it..are those alleged worse problems even worse ?
@@bla-bla-bla8881 It shouldn't matter... You can address multiple problems. It's not a zero-sum game.
@@hayd3n98 true but the group of people that claim that their problems are worse usually do it to justify why another group of people’s problems should be ignored for theirs
@@bla-bla-bla8881 usually is an opinion sorry
@@bla-bla-bla8881 But that isn't addressing both problems. Thats using one problem to delegitimize the other.
This conversation holds so much truth about how many men feel. It's not like other people suffer less or more than men. We just all suffer in different ways and under different circumstances. And that's what people need to realise. Men are human. They have emotions and thus they also have the need to be heard and cared for. Sally that's often not the case. Mens problems and sorrows are being seen as less valid since men are supposed to deal with them.
boys need help too!
the true idea behind people talking about toxic masculinity is to actually get society to hear men out. Toxic masculinity is about telling young boys to not cry and to not rely on anyone, and bringing awareness to it lets people know that this way is damaging to men. I know the term has been used as a tool against men sometimes but yall really need to take that power back and use it how it is supposed to be used. What im saying is, i think a crucial step to getting society to see men's emotions as valid as women's is to talk and bring awareness about toxic masculinity
@Jonessa Smith you do realize that just by being here ,in toxic masculinity culture, you would be considered a pussy
@@CapeEniEer Exactly. Toxic masculinity harms men. Toxic masculinity limits the vulnerability/emotional range men are allowed to express, or the struggles they're allowed to discuss. It's THE primary men's issue right now, IMO.
@Unironik You're making such huge generalizations about women here, I can't even. This is the kind of stuff men say when they think they know how women think, when in truth they are just making assumptions. Stop for a moment to think that perhaps how you think women are isn't the truth necessarily. In general it's good to stop at times and question your own thoughts and worldview, think what shaped it and realize it might not be the objective truth of how things are.
God bless this crossover. Being wrongfully accused for something you didn’t do hits too close to home while the world paints you as a villain makes me want to tear up.
stop pretending you're a victim to a nonexistent crime. Nobody's wrongfully accusing you of anything, you just like to make stuff up as an excuse to be angry at women.
The skull and bones pfp really cements your vibe as an edgelord neckbeard.
@@hermionestranger4964 I wish people like you understood the pain you cause strangers online. You don’t know the pain I went through. I hope you ask yourself why you are such a mean spirited individual.
@@hermionestranger4964 For someone who's been blazing through comments talking about how accepting they are, you sure loves to shit on people who may have legitimate concerns and/or problems.
@@hermionestranger4964 Seeth harder. Why even comment if you’re just going to invalidate personal experiences and be hypocritical towards people? Whatta loser lol
@Jonessa Smith ah yes, wanting genocide, the most reasonable position for this shit.\s
This was super fascinating. Like, halfway through when Aba was kind of triggered by toxic masculinity as a buzzword, and Dr. K made him unpack that and bring up this memory where it was CLEARLY traumatic, an event that formed his reactions forever? It was like, interview turned therapy session? That pause afterword where Aba kinda realized that THAT WAS EXACTLY IT sent chills up my spine.
I know! I was so happy they talked about that
1:10:05
@@blew1t the 🐐
Well, he is a psychiatrist! So far from all his interviews I've seen, they are all therapy sessions - he uses all counseling skills like building rapport, active listening, reflecting and paraphrasing, attending, and focusing!
When Aba started talking about his childhood experience at 1:22:00 I was stunned. That's exactly what has happened to me, and not only once, during school and childhood. Being wrongfully accused and feeling like the whole world is against you, at such young age definitely has a big impact on you.
Really digging this convo. I like how Dr. K gives the control of the convo to his guests. "may I take this call from my producer real quick.", "Can I ask this...", "Are you comfortable talking about..".
It's easier to open up when you feel in control.
Male expectations aren’t talked about enough. I personally feel that is a major reason why I don’t feel happy enough in life, because I don’t think I can live up to what everyone thinks I should be. From family and friends, to a romantic partner. It feels like Mount Everest at times...where would I start to even climb that?
Well. I think you hit the same nail that aba hit. I don't feel exatcly like it's super hard to climb this. But there is no enough information on how to start, and how to progress. There is just a Picture of the top of Everest with the Writing "you must be here"
One thing to consider is this. Are the expectations that society and people around expectations you have or want for yourself? Something to think about is what would make you happy in life and then work toward that instead of what society tells you will make you happy.
I might be wrong but i feel like that issue is toxic masculinity and how it pressures men into unhealthy standards. I really think men should start using the term for their own benefit, to bring proper awareness to society, instead of hating the term
@@CapeEniEer if the term is misused enough times you start to hate it. Try setting your favorite song as an alarm, after one week you hate that fucking song and everyone who made that song. Also i think that most man want to be taking responsibilty and be better every day. the problem is that we don't have enough guidance to reach that goal. But maybe i'm just speaking for myself, i know happiest i ever been was when i reach the goal that was really hard (losing weight and do a triathlon) or when i'm helping others. I think that is also why Jordan Peterson is so loved by many. even if he has A LOT of flaws. Another problem is that some people don't agree with the responsibilty that they "should" take, in my case i don't want to have kids, but i think it's not a problem of toxic masculinity but society in a whole because woman have the same issues.
@@CapeEniEer I understand where you're coming from the idea behind it BUT the term "toxic masculinity" is conservation poison and sensitive to a lot of men.
This is so interesting. It's what I imagined how therapy should go: if the patient gets unusually emotional (anger, disgust, passion, excitement, sadness, etc.) about some words or some concept the therapist mention, it's like a lead -- likely something that has bothered the person for a long time. The therapist should chase the lead, which is EXACTLY what Dr. K did here. In the therapist sessions I went to, if I got super excited or angry about something, and he/she would distract me and get me to talk about something else, as if I had behaved inappropriately, and/or that I made him/her feel uncomfortable. The session would end and I would feel like I did something wrong, and I wouldn't get any useful feedback about it from the therapist. This happened to me with several therapists... and I felt really discouraged about psychotherapy. Glad Dr. K is doing psychotherapy right!!
I had a similar experience and stopped going to therapy. It felt like the therapist (younger newer therapist) was trying to take a nap. I didnt have real problems, but was definitely depressed, and I came out feeling worse than when I went in
@@eannane8712 did you share those feelings with the therapist?
This is the kind of talk you will see in 80 years and be like "wow society really hasnt changed that much"
Sadly you're right. Just how we look back 40 years from now and see that things have not changed (or changed for the worse).
I feel like topics and problems such as these will not die any time soon
one of my biggest fears is these kind of discussions are just going to play on repeat.
@@silversoul5285 you are already living in it. I remember watching a video from a boomer generation guy talking about quite the similar issues in regards with relationship and dating.
I remember how my optimism for the future was destroyed as I realized that we are living on a loop, destined to have the same problems, struggle with no progress or actual solutions...
So yeah. I TOTALLY understand where you're coming from.
I really hope not
Jesus Christ with this type of defeatist attitude in this comment thread, ofc nothing is going to change. If we want shit to change then we need to make a effort to challenge social norms. If feminism can change shit up for women in the past 100 years, then men can do it to.
Something that grinds my gears more than anything is the belittlement of peoples issues. "oh there's starving kids in Africa" "oh you cant complain your a man." nothing frustrates me more than that, my suffering is my cross to bear and other peoples is there's. That's not to say we shouldn't collectively try to help one another, that's how we collectively get through setbacks and conflicts, but taking someone's issues or discomforts and telling them their problems don't matter because they're x y or z as though that wasn't a completely random outcome from melanin content of skin color, to the ethnic background they were born into or even whether they were born as a man or a women is so despicable. Imagine a loved one or someone your close to dies and your grieving and someone tells you "that's no reason to be upset there's people dying every day." As though every memory, experience, connection etc. you had with that person just doesn't matter and never did because you don't have it "the worst off." In what way does being the most miserable person validate your struggles as though being more upset, depressed, stressed etc make you somehow more qualified to speak on someone else's suffering? I heard some amazing advice a while back that to this day I live with, and it's that "you have to treat yourself like you are a member of your family. You wouldn't just let a member of your family be hungry, or live someplace that's unclean or spend all of their money. You need to respect and love yourself the same way you would a mother or a father or a sibling." Your suffering is yours, it's a member of your family that is suffering and you want to take the initiative to change it. That is your right as an individual to want to and work towards being happy, hell it's a constitutional right.
For me, that and the dismissal of people’s lived realities because of the condition they are in really grind my gears.
It’s incredibly frustrating to hear people dismiss the pain and suffering others are going through on the basis that they are poorer, of a different skin color, of a different religion, different education, different political persuasion, etc. It’s so very common, and it’s difficult to challenge that kind of thinking because it’s so widely accepted and encouraged, I myself struggle trying to make sure I avoid doing this every day.
As one example, a lot of people might dismiss Republicans as being stupid or poor and therefore deserving to suffer from bad outcomes (like having less access to medical care, having a lower quality of life and life expectancy, etc.), as if those criteria justify the suffering that people have to go through. And yet, a lot of people who use that rhetoric are viewed as compassionate and caring about human rights, unrightfully so, in my opinion.
@@potts995 I myself am stupid and poor so I could never dismiss Republicans that way but I don’t believe that’s why most people around the left-wing and/or liberal part of the political spectrum dismiss them because of traits that can’t be assigned without knowing people individually but rather traits that can be discerned by voting patterns. For instance, voting against social welfare or single-payer healthcare or climate action or campaign finance reform, or virtually everything that might be considered “good” according to one’s political persuasions would give a logical basis to dismiss them as not deserving the “good” those proposals would allegedly bring.
It's always the people with the easiest lives who say that shit lol. Like someone who grew up in the suburbs with 2 parents making $100k/year, telling me, an autistic person who grew up in a trailer park with both parents making a combined whopping $40k/year with an abusive father, to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or whatever.
people mostly say that to try and get others to think about what they've got and try to be a little more contented. Of course, it can be dismissive, but telling people to count their blessing can be quite helpful at times, and can stop them from being too unreasonable.
Have you been hit with the "Women are being raped and murdered but we shouldn't care about them because your feelings are hurt" talking point that is always thrown around everywhere yet?
this is the crossover I have been waiting on
hasn't he been on before
@@drftr6073 he has. I've just been waiting to see Dr K address mens issues.
you love to see it
I can really relate with Aba's story here about the snow forts. My sister grew up 5 years older than me and I always dealt with this guilty till proven innocent ideology with my dad. (My parents were divorced at a young age and lived separately.) So whatever my sister wanted, she could get not only physically with her being the age of 12 to my age of 7, but she also got mentally. My dad would hear her whining and immediately set his sights on me being the issue (I wasn't perfect I was a bad kid but this was without exception.) So eventually as the years went by not only would I be "put in place" by my larger than me sister but my dad would join in and reinforce that lesson after she was done. He'd see my 9 year old fist hitting my 14 year old sisters arm and it was over. It wasn't frequent but it happened enough times to keep me from fighting any battles even the ones I was clearly correct on and that feeling of "toxic masculinity" or suffering in silence as presented here was omnipresent in my day to day. You get to that point where all battles aren't really worth engaging in.
Learned helplessness is learned helplessness.
I have to remember girls can dare getting hurt and boys hurting is valid and worth consoling because of the habits I picked up before professional childcare, to approximate even treatment...it feels like a worthy goal with toddlers.
why was your sister so aggressive towards you and tried to put you down thou? Was that also coming from the parents maybe
@@vegan.3176 I think it was her way of redirecting the aggression, using me as a family scapegoat. Therefore all of the problems and issues that persisted throughout our day to day throughout the family was because of me. Blaming me as the only way to make sense of the situation and a way to offset her onset perfectionism as the golden child. No doubt the way she acted towards me is a reflection of what she thinks of herself especially with how critical and hypocritical our parents were.
'Redpill community, Dr K in prison'
That timestamp is a bait and a half.
That's the problem with "rubberbanding"... humans tend to overshoot when correcting errors, resulting in all involved parties to feel treated unfairly
facts
Yeah but it's part of the process right? When you first learn any sport, you will have lots of unnecessary movements which hurt your game. Your attempt to correct those errors would not be controlled so you'd end up overcompensating and again hurting your game in the opposite way. As you gain foothold in this mess, you slowly start to correct the mistakes with relatively less overcompensation with a sharper view of the actual problems. In this case though, it can lead to a lot of unfair treatment and that sucks, but that's where we are at.
@@Hemlocker I agree with most of what you are saying, but I don't see why my analogy breaks. Ahh I see. Yeah I don't see it happening fast by any means. Part of the process is that it's slow as hell on its own. A "teacher" definitely would help accelerate that process to some degree, and yes, most people don't have the right "teacher" to go to right now. I don't think we can make this balancing thing happen properly and quickly though. Setting a goal like that is like going to therapy for PTSD and putting the goal that you should lose the PTSD within one session. A goal like you should see improvement sounds more realistic..
Another way you can think of it is a pendulum. Swing one way, if you want to get to the centre, you'll inevitably end up swinging too far the other way first.
Could you maybe name a couple of examples of rubberbanding in history? I feel like humans tend to do the opposite, but maybe i'm not remembering some important stuff.
Great conversation. About the last topic, I had that experience when my mom told me she was afraid I would hurt myself after many years struggling on and off with depression and anxiety and it really changed our relantionship for the best. I started viewing her as someone I can rely on and share my problems and I got better.
What this really showed me is that we need more talking between male and female communities about their issues so that people can realise they're the same issues. For example when they were talking about male sexual assault they were making valid points but missed that a lot of the male victim's reactions are the same as any assault victim (incl women)- it's a common psychological response to freeze up and not do/ say anything when being assaulted, it's also common to want to downplay your own assault afterwards and call it 'disrespect' rather than assault as generally people don't want to be seen as a victim. Common understanding would go a long way I think
A lot of people know the incomplete quote of fight or flight and don't realise there's the third part, freeze.
@@shaggybaggums Yeah exactly, very true
true, and not only do men and women react in similar ways to that kind of abuse, it can happen to anyone regardless of their physical stature. I have a male friend who was a very innocent kid who was assaulted by classmates for a prolonged period and despite the fact that he's huge and could in theory beat most attackers half to death now, he was traumatized so badly that even verbal confrontations make him freeze up.
simplistic thinking about this stuff is a dead end
This is exactly what I was thinking. That's a very heartbreaking anecdote, just listening because as women we are constantly scared and on the lookout for this.
It is never ok but I find a sense of comfort in the fact that with these anecdotes men can put themselves in the place of victims and be more empathetic. I still see men being way more dismissive of sexual assault with both genders (sexes?). I hope this brings everyone closer together
@@Kaybye555
Same. We could really use some healthy trauma bonding to become closer.
23 here and jesus christ does alot of this speak to me. The most is one dating. No one taught me and im looked at as weird for not knowing or trying. People feel even weirder about me when they know i was in the marine corps
U were in the marine corps? Ur weird man wtf, touch grass weirdo
@@supertrollfaxnoprinter3329 LOL
@@supertrollfaxnoprinter3329 you call him weird but fr fr the strawberry crayons taste so good
@@phoenixjones7191 not in the marine corps but can concur
While listening to this, I realized what did it for me, similarly to Aba's story about the snow forts and being accused.
I was AMAB and when I was in second grade we were all in the computer lab and the teacher walked out for a minute or two and when he walked back in, he saw a girl (tallest in the class and I was by far the shortest person in the class) trying to punch me in the face and I tried to put my hands up to block it and accidentally hit her on the chin. Didn't hurt her at all, don't even think I could have if I tried. I hadn't even done anything prior, I was just the runt of the class so everyone picked on me because it was easy.
I was immediately brought to the principal's office and when they brought this girl in for me to apologize to her, she immediately apologized to me. She told the teacher that she started it and I shouldn't be in trouble. The principal told her not to stand up for me and that what I did was inexcusable. I got suspended and forced to write an apology letter and she got told I was the one in the wrong, even though she attacked me.
The only good thing that came out of it was the fact that I guess she actually did feel sorry for it because even though it was never brought up again, she stopped physically bullying me from then on. Teasing and name-calling yes but that was more peer pressure because I don't recall anyone else in the class not doing that.
Damn! I'm sorry you had to go through that.
That's similar what has happened to me, and not only once during school and childhood. Being wrongfully accused and feeling like the whole world is against you, at such young age definitely has a big impact on you.
I hope fewer children will be put trough such experiences going forward.
Leaving a classroom where bullying occurs especially in primary education is baffling to me to begin with but having so low awareness as to punish a victim for defending them selves is adding onto that failure.
I used to have a friend who because I just poked her belly(a game we both used to do call out our attention) was accoused from harasment by her just because her crush were nearby and she want to be "defended by him"
Don't know if this has been the experience of other men, but as someone who is trying to make the transition from boyhood to manhood without a father figure: it's hard to be a man in a society that seems to confuse traditional masculine values with being a bad person.
And to make things more confusing, the majority of the loud people don't really know either
@@sollertia_ both of you are spot on!
People are trying to attack masculinity, sucide rate for men and younger men is sky rocketting because they are being fed and told to not be stoic but to not solve it either. Overthinking small things and underthinking big things and doing things you don't even want to do. Women don't know how men feel and think that somehow talking about our feelings would improve or something even though it's usually used against us in the future. I don't want to talk about what I think I want to be comfortable talking and know that someone is listening vs doing it for the sake of it and pretending to understand. Even if someone doesn't understand I wish they would admit it, instead they have to pretend and try to relate it to themselves which usually does nothing.
I'm with ya there. I want to be successful and I want to make a lot of money, but if I do I will be told I am supporting the oppressive patriarchy and told I am toxic. But I think we as men are equipped, or can be, to live in a world that doesn't really like us for being men while still being strong, loving and generous. It'll just be harder, but we got this.
What is traditional masculine value?
Thank you for talking about men's mental health issues. Everyone struggles, doesn't matter who or what you are.
But isn't it worse of for men in todays society?
@ivan Kolic It’s like you didn’t watch the video and internalize that it’s not a who-has-it-worse competition.it’s about acknowledging that we both have struggles and we need to get to a point to solve them
@ it's more the fact that people have been ignoring those issues for a long time
@ I think that mental framework actually creates the fundamental issue being discussed.
The reason men’s issues aren’t taken seriously is because there’s this human desire in society to express “I / we suffer more”, as in, an inherent human desire to be recognized for our suffering. The fact is, generally speaking, we all suffer equally (at least in modern 3rd world countries; assuming that’s where the majority of this discussion is taking place).
So what’s going on here? When we suffer, it feels bad and we desperately want to solve it. Very few have the training and knowledge to navigate these emotions so when we don’t have an immediate solution, the mind will actually default to victimization. This essentially tells the brain “you’re suffering but it’s not your fault, it’s theirs” and gives you a sense of empowerment and relief - as strange as that sounds. Kind of in the same way someone whose not hungry will eat when stressed without realizing the reason they’re eating. When asked why they ate, they would likely respond with “I was hungry”.
The core issue is a disconnection with our emotions and the unconscious, often involuntary, conditioned pattern of behavior. This is why our personal data is so wildly valuable - humans are predictable and can be easy manipulated to buy (amongst other things) without our awareness.
So right now, socially, women being recognized for their suffering actually empowers them, giving them a sense of comfort and reassurance that their feelings are valid (which is great and needs to take place). However a macro-social level, where novelty and extremism gets the most attention in media - the message becomes “Women are oppressed and it’s men’s fault”; likely due to media’s attempt to be as polarizing as possible to attract attention (I.e. ad revenue) and by generating a perpetrator, it relieves the “oppressed” of responsibility. If these polarizing ideas are allowed to spread without discourse (like this video) these concepts permeate our culture and skew rational perspective and perception (I.e. truth).
Another interesting question I would present is; at what point can past history no longer skew the perceptions of current day reality?
Shit, this is complicated and there’s a lost more to it but I’m tired of typing on mobile. Essentially we’re in a power struggle between who is more victimized . We have to collectively agree that everyone suffers or the blame-game will continue indefinitely, further polarizing our collective humanity and creating even more division across all identified human forms.
So essentially what I’m saying is; by responding to this argument with “isn’t it worse for men“, the feelings that motivate that message stem from the same fundamental problem that’s deprived men from their own expression and representation of social oppression; I.e. “but I suffer more”. If we can all agree that we all experience the universal condition that is human suffering, we can rid ourselves of this unconscious power struggle and collectively bring attention to the immediate issue at hand, and at the same time, not ignore other forms of suffering. It’s as if there’s this strange notion that there’s a finite amount of empathy and everyone is clamoring to steal it. In reality, we can shine the spotlight on individual issues as needed, while at the same time keeping the floodlight of empathy across all forms of suffering.
Intersectionality is still a Feminist issue, wether it's about acknowledging men's Mental health struggles, their excessively punitive or military exploitation by some or simply having a chance at getting custody of their children.
There is a lot of harm perpetuated by (gendered) expectations on people.
Aba talking about what happened when he was a kid mirrored something that happened in my life. Differences being I was 7 and I was still believed for being the perpetrator even years later.
When i was 10-11, me and a girl was talking shit to eachother, it was in winter so it was icy and we were standing ontop of a hill. She pushed me and i slipped and slided on my face down the hill. She immedietly went to the teacher and told her that i said mean things to her. When i got back into class with my whole face bloody, the teacher started yelling at me for being mean to her. And i was just like "ehm, why you yelling at me? she did this to my face", the teachers response was "well maybe you shouldnt have said those words to her then".
That got me so fucking pissed. No matter what happens, the girl is the victim and the boy the perpetrator.
@@KevinUchihaOG i moved around schools alot as a kid and because of this i got bullied alot and the girl bullies were infinitely worse than the boys because with the boys, the teacher could sometimes recognize bullying as it was happening and would step in and also generally we would end up getting into a fight and then becoming best friends but with girls the teacher would ALWAYS take their side no matter what, boys would always take their side, literally ive had a situation where a girl was just hitting me and laughing while another girl egged her on and when i finally pushed her off of me she started crying and her friend started screaming "he hit her!" And i had no fucking idea what to do and even after explaining what had happened and that she was objectively in the wrong i was still punished for what happened.
It can be kinda obvious and cliche, but I think it needs to be better taught to stand up for oneself.
Even though one can feel helpless, if you did absolutely nothing wrong I think it should be fine to REFUSE any punishment or allegation. And honestly fight for your innocence.
Sometimes it seems like people don't realize that any child is capable of lying even without malicious intent. The least I think a teacher should be capable of is leave it be if they don't have hard facts.
@@FrozenThai a child cant just refuse punishment. Its not up to you whether or not you are punished and its a lot to ask of a child to stand up to an entire school administration and usually their own family.
@@KevinUchihaOGLol just reading that made me angry. I had similar experiences (not quite that bad though) and it made me basically avoid interacting with girls for most of adolescence. I felt like a predator/threat or something without even doing anything. It took until adulthood for me to start interacting with women normally.
Interestingly enough, after watching Dr. K I have felt my self confidence improve to the point that I've been going on successful Discord dates, and while I don't think it would've been a train wreck beforehand, Dr. K has helped me see my own value and step away from desparately seeking affection. It just goes to show that all these pickup artists and red pill dudes aren't what you need. What you need is confidence and self worth, have that and people will be attracted to it. The beautiful part is once you have that, you won't be as desparate for a girlfriend and be accepting that it'll happen when it does.
discord dates?
@@rll1236 haha its nothing special, just met people on dating apps and since we're in lockdown that's the only way to have a "date" right now.
@@BenLucasCritic haha thats pretty cool. Good Luck man
Self-confidence is key💯
Thats all bullshit. God bless
Absolutely loved this episode (especially with how much nuance could be covered due to their communication skills). That last section really helped me understand some of my role for my siblings. Watching that section timed out literally less than an hour after I was venting/discussing what I should do to help my loved ones through depression. Thank you Dr. K!
One thing I've noticed with progressive people trying to discuss men's issues is that they'll identify the problems as the male identity and the men and the solution is that men need to do better. They wouldn't dare do this with any other demographic: 'black people, women etc', they would blame society for thier issues. I think that we need to look at men as a product of society, rather than the enforcers of it. That way, we can help them without being victim blamey
Kind of ironically, the same solution is applicable. There are society-level solutions that need to occur too, but if individuals put in the work to do better we would all be better for it. Not to mention, change begets change, as well as inspires others to change. It only takes a few actors, good or bad, to affect change on a wide scale; we observe this all the time.
@@MaejorArray ''created by people that aren't marginalized'' You don't know that at all, you are just assuming a white man's suffering is not caused by marginalized people when I can name you 4 situations where this was the case.
@@WrathofFenrir99 To be fair, for a long time women were paid less because they used to be housewives. If they were already in the workforce and not denied money/education by society (patriarchy), the Industrial Revolution wouldn't have set the wage standard so low for women.
That said, I'd argue that individuals in general make less because of capitalism and business, and the gender changes depending on the kind of employment. Like I mentioned, the Industrial Revolution is evidence of this. It's reasonable for employers to want to spend less money, but this absolutely should not be achieved through gender discrimination, regardless of who is affected.
I mean, when people refer to toxic masculinity, that's really what they're talking about. The role of men in society (one could call it a patriarchy) over the past centuries has negatively stereotyped women, men, and their relationships; it encourages men to act a certain way to women (high sexual assault rates), discourages expressing sympathy or emotion (high suicide rates), is inherently anti-LGBT+, and limits all genders in terms of employment (men are more likely to be hired in male-dominated fields, and vice versa). And even though it's called "toxic masculinity," it can also be perpetuated by women.
I think there's an unfortunate misconception about the term that makes not-progressives dislike it, as if it's an attack on men in general. But you can like traditionally manly things like cars or sports without feeding into a society that puts people in traditionalist boxes.
yeah it's basically "men caused men's problems so suck it men!" even though the vast majority of men who have ever existed had little to no say in the way society is structured
Personally don't know who aba is, but it's rare to see this topic being discussed without a toxic agenda behind it so here I am
Aba and Preach talk a lot about that. Check them out. They're fun to listen to too.
@@jonmacdonald2193 No there is often a toxic agenda behind it most times, maybe it just you don't see it.
I saw Aba speak with Destiny recently, it was my first time hearing him and he was lovely to listen to. I'm tired of there being a negative stigma around men's issues and the fact that men aren't purely and only to blame for the way they behave.
@@GR33TINGSEARTHL1NGS Yeah it's society enforcement of gender roles that are the blame, which make it so that men never be the victims or women can be the bullies. But, lucky modern feminist especially in the education field are tacking these issues. Also, yeah red pill movement have really hurt men's issues, espically since they don't talk about it all instead how women are toxics beings.
@@goldenwarrior4727 also most redpill stuff i've seen has been about stating the surface level issues without ever going into depth, because if you do you realise feminists want the same thing, and that's impossible because feminists bad.
The same way people see male CEO's, governors, soldiers, etc and say "males have higher status and have have privilege"
Other males see that and say "i am male, i need to work harder, get higher, earn more because im the one who is supposed to provide"
Sexist stereotypes are a double edged sword like that imo for everyone that doesn't fit the stereotype. You could say that it's a luxury for women to be able to not have to spend a day at work and spend 100% of their time around people they love, but some women also implode because of the lack of life fulfillment and power, and also try to satisfy their ego using their family members. I guess it's not the same, but it's a lot easier to give women jobs than give men the right to be poor. I'm pretty sure that's categorized as a political thing anyways.
Choice is freedom for both genders.
@@Paputsza Yo, damn.
Men gravitate towards those higher earning / status proffesssions because women overwhelmingly gravitate towards men who earn more / have status.
If I were a lizard looking dude like Zuckerberg, my best mating strategy would be to become ultra wealthy. So men have a significantly higher motivation to put the in 100 hour work weeks to become a successful CEO. whereas men don't care what women earn. It's women driving this incentive currently. Although it's understandable, the most vunerable time in a woman's life is pregnancy, if a man can't demonstrate an ability to provide and protect, you're probably going to be a poor choice. Which lowers the survival chances of your offspring. Even in first world countries like the US that don't have universal healthcare, a poor provider puts your offspring at greater risk if they can't provide, not just in pregnancy but in the upbringing.
@@Paputsza exactly how i see it like how men have to be leaders like that comes from the idea that women shouldnt be or aren't capable
This is the first time i saw a conversation with Aba, and man, i love how articulate and thoughtful he is. Whish more people would be even a little bit like that.
Edit Typo
This is what real communication and understanding looks like. Thank you for covering these subjects.
I know this is an old video but it's such a privilege to witness this conversation and have it uploaded in a way I can refer back to. Thank you both
I've read expressions like, "Unless you're a CIS white male, you know anxiety" casually dropped with zero pushback, many many times.
Aba Atlas is right in the sense that a lot of unwarranted expectations are put on us men as part of our traditional gender role in society, and we don't have the tools to fulfil those expectations. But at the end of the day, we're not the ones who are in the wrong for not having those tools, because those expectations are put on us from the outside, and aren't necessarily bound to what we want to achieve as at a personal level. Aba said it himself, that when he succeeded in dating lots of women, as it was expected of him as a man, he didn't really even enjoy it that much. So maybe the social expectations of masculinity are themselves the problem, they make us depressed and insecure if we don't fulfil them, but doing so doesn't make us any less depressed or insecure, what's worse, we often deliberately hide how we truly feel about them, because we're not even expected to be emotional and have feelings. This is why I believe it's important to take a critical approach, and question those expectations to forge our own personal path, instead of forcing ourselves to accomodate.
It reminds me of the question Dr. K mentioned in other video, “do you love winning or do you hate losing?”. This sounds like a case of hating “losing”.
RIght! I can't make accomodate to make everyone happy. we are humans, not a restaurant. Society can change a lot in a matter of months and it would become different world.
29:43 Wow that is some information that should be told to all young men.
real talk, i think that is one of the biggest problems that face mental health, people are afraid of saying and being who they really are to avoid judgement. type in “patrice o’neal talks honestly with dylan gadino” on TH-cam. that interview completely changed my life. it taught me how to be my real self in the face of pressures to act and think like everyone else in order to feel accepted and fit in. the interview is with patrice so it is also hilarious.
We live in a society.
Yeah that was news to me as well. Tons of people don't date for authentic reasons, but out of fear of perception by others. Depressing stuff
I wish I knew that when I had my one and only gf. I literally dumped her because my friends were giving me so much shit about it that I just couldn’t take it, because they thought she was gross (she wasn’t). None of those guys are my friends anymore so if I had gotten away from them sooner we might have had a better chance 😢.
Dr K and Aba have such a vibe together - I feel like Aba’s super open approach really helps
1:15:20 damn that really is me! 21y/o and 1 year from graduation. Shout out to all my fellow strugglers, keep pushing as best you can 💪
The worst part about talking on men's issues is that they always have this expectation to be couched in the language of what men can do to improve it and how men were the ones that ultimately caused it and no responsibility can be placed on women for it. It's the exact problem that gives men these issues, but they literally cannot address it because the problem has consumed men's issues as a topic of dialogue too. There's literally no place where a man will not be shamed, except for radical communities.
are you saying that women are the cause of men's mental health issues?
@@user-yz6wb7wb1g Not really. I'm saying that general dialogue around gender is like this. Sure, women are *a* cause of it, and we could do a whole shitload better than we do, but "women are the cause" is an incredibly simplistic, vague overstatement. Many men play into it as well.
@@TheJesterInYellow what I'm hearing is how ironic it is that self-styled egalitarians and feminists who engage conversations about men's issues can't get past the idea of men exclusively being the source of and solution to their own problems, am I correct?
@@AugustusBohn0 Yes, exactly.
I disagree; it seems like the radical ones are doing the bulk of the shaming. Most "regular" people I know can acknowledge that both men and women contribute to social problems and have unfair expectations placed on them.
I had a situation last New Years at a party where an intoxicated coworker was continuously sexually harassing me (verbally and physically). I went and sat outside for some fresh air and she followed me, tried getting on top of me to make out. I grabbed her by the hips and pushed her off me and told her to leave me alone. She got up crying because I wouldn’t fuck her and went back to the party and told her male friends I put my hands on her. Ended up fighting 2 drunk guys and having to defend myself from false allegations. Its impossible to win in those types of situations as a man.
Staying in public is the first thing girls get tought in these situation, having (at least) an informed buddy second and calling out that behaviour in a way that's resonate third.
I don't know if any of this could have been applicable, going forward I hope increased awareness can extend the social protection I enjoyed to you.
When you're being harassed,stay with your company, don't isolate yourself
@@sleether4049 cmon, companies will never hear a man problem, just women matters
@@carlogustavovalenzuelazepe5774 Thats not true though. Women definitely get harassed and nothing happens to the men. The women get labelled badly and eventually fired for something else. Many women believe its pointless to pursue a course of action even criminal as the process will paint them badly and ruin their reputation. So please be careful about writing these types of statements. It doesn’t help anyone.
What a creep lol
I feel like saying "all men are trash" is saying "im not the problem, you are" . It removes the responsibility of self improvement from yourself and is instead placing blame on .. the entirety of the opposite sex . Another way of side stepping accountability , I feel.
When people say that stuff on twitter it really hurts my mentality towards myself
I mean for one thing, if someone actually says that unironically they clearly have a lot of issues themselves. I have to say I haven't heard more than 1 or 2 people say that in my lifetime. And in those instances, usually worded something like "straight men are the worst," they were clearly joking. But I don't have Twitter or a ton of friends so idk.
Well I hardly value anything I read online. I've heard it my fair share of times in person. And majority of the time it is coming from a person that clearly has some personal issues , that they do not see at all. Partly because they dont believe they could possibly be the one needing to make any changes , therefore believing it must be every male with the problems, not themselves. I personally dont value what most people have to say when they start any sentence with "All ( insert group )" because I believe all people differ on an individual basis
@@hayd3n98 well... twitter and especially tiktok are full of those kinda people.
@Unironik i don't think that we should say all men are trash, but by saying that women seem to be unaccountable, that just continues the gender war forward. Instead of it being a back and forth between men and women, we should say things like men and women are unaccountable and not one more than the other
Wow powerful stuff. It's like someone holding a mirror up to you and saying you are the problem. I use to think women had it so much easier and was upset they were marginalizing my suffering, but I was doing the exact same thing to them. We get so caught up in our own egos, that we rarely see that we ignore what others are going through and only focus on ourselves. Thank you for the video.
Growing up as someone who's been expected to eventually be a man at some point in my life, being treated to these kinds of scenarios has mentally torn me apart:
1:22:54 Snowfort story
My entire childhood is made of stories like these in which I'm actively made to feel like garbage by a mob of people. Not necessarily beginning with the crush detail, but the rest for sure is quite the relatable experience.
Each time fingers would point, they went to me simply because someone chose to speak up and name me quickly. This happened from 5th grade all the way until I was a senior. The only way I could have reasonably escaped this would have been to drop out of school, but that was the exact opposite of what I wanted. Said differently: I felt trapped and surrounded, and I felt that there wasn't a single thing I could do about any of this.
Cut to 28, I discover that a majority of my developmental hardships are very likely attributed to ADHD and problems with emotional regulation, and that I am also on the autism spectrum. I'm 30, so I've been spending 20 years trying to avoid situations in which the choices of other humans aren't my problem.
I think I finally feel free from it all. I think I feel comfortable growing myself without worry that being targeted or assuming that having attention paid to me will affect me negatively. Even if it means that I'm in the way and a that I'm a problem, I think I'm here to stay.
i had a story from when i was in 3rd grade i got gifted a cool pencil with decals on it from a teacher and then there was i test i believe and a girl took it from me then i was annoyed and she was fake crying and the teacher did not like me
You have to have Pierre Xo on your show! Omg I'd LOVE that so much ♡ the multi dimensional flip Lord has to be on your show yo ☆
Dr K's ability to interview is amazing. The pacing, circling back, the pauses, making the interviewee feel in control etc
💯 / 💯
Would love to be taught by him.
As sad as it is, this is the first time i'm truly understanding the feelings of a man. I couldn't imagine being in a man's shoes- that feeling of shame, inadequacy... All the time. That's so fucking heartbreaking- It's insane how... blind, i was, to this.
This is really interesting to me reading this. So in the past when you hear about "men's issues" , what did you perceive or think of it as?
@@southpaw97_ Im not sure i really heard about them much, tbh. Its very much the sort of thing you have to specifically search for. The only things i would hear would be stuff about how like men always have to pay, and just the basic sort of complaints men have about women (Which, valid, but also... I dunno. thats a whole fucking shitshow in and of itself, of just men and women arguing about shit but never LISTENING, understanding each others side and stuff.
Another point i want to make too, is that... somehow, i didn't fully realize men had a full range of emotions, until I saw my dad crying for the first time when i was 18.
It was a weird moment. He was hard on the exterior, like most men are. Aggressive, too. Never the sort to cry, but always the sort to get into a fight if need be.
I dunno. It's a weird thing, and i think... For the women who DO listen, and understand about shit like this (Men's specific issues), it could help them to really be transparent about... things you've been conditioned to hide/not show.
And also, I never once realized the massive struggle of initiating. Nobody e ver *showed* me it was a struggle. It was always just... how it was.
These things need to be talked about more, i think. In a open, and kind, and understanding atmosphere.
@moonycorn4914 ah I see. Yeah and showing emotion for me is actually really hard as a guy now. Only now when in 26 do I really try to be more expressive instead of stone faced as much as possible.
And as for initiating things, most guys now it's a zero sum game. ESPECIALLY for those who, like me are so self conscious and have no confidence that the fact that we have to initial everything, is already an Everest to get over. Not to even mention the high chance of rejection. And even if she say yes after all this effort, only to be used as a ATM and a free meal? Why try?
And to some degree I support the feminist movement in its effort to make women more outspoken and in charge of what they want but there also the undercurrent of women supremacy and "kill all men". So what's a guy suppose to do ya know? And then you hear women say "where have all the good men gone?" Hah.
@@southpaw97_ Facts, I entirely understand what you're saying. God, it seems like such a weight on the shoulders to carry around, by default.. Just for being a man. If i were a man, i'd honestly consider a women *expecting* a guy to pay for her meal, as a red flag. That shit screams entitled, jesus.
Also, this might be a little odd, but you seem really nice. Would you want to be friends on some other platform, by any chance?
Strictly friends!
I didn't expect to cry today. The last segment really got me. I had one of my best friends take their life on a friday and I remember I had the chance to hang out with them earlier that week. I was tired and already in bed playing Xbox, he comes to visit like he always did. I just didn't feel like getting out of bed. That was the last time I had the chance to give him a hug and remind him that I loved him. The idea that maybe I was one of the last beacons absolutely crushes me. But, at the end of the day it happened as it was intended. Rest well my friend. I still love you and always will.
Wow, I loved this whole discussion. Everyone has their struggles. No one's struggle should be dismissed regardless of gender, age, or sexual orientation.
Wow, I loved hearing Aba talk! He speaks so precisely, and I love how when he gives relevant psychology information he always double-checks them with Dr. K to make sure he's not saying something misinformed. Plus, he just speaks with so much humility and respect.
By far my favorite guest on this channl!
“You can be really good and believe my I’m really good and I learned that lesson the hard way” ooof 🥺
holy shit! discussion about men's issues is for the first time intellectually stimulating without toxic bias. two emotionally understanding men having a discussion the men of the internet need.
Same with the feminist side too no one ever says it tho
@@ki11atj49 The vocal part of feminists is what people hear all over the internet (and not only) and it's not good.
@@charginginprogresss he said the first time men's issues talked about without toxic bias
But that isn't true and feminist have alot of toxic bias is what I was saying
I don't see why you qualify that statement with "of the internet"
@@ki11atj49 Generalizing about "feminists" (and you are far from alone in this) is a sign of a lack of any real knowledge about feminism beyond superficial polemics found in the mass media and social media. Feminism is 200 years of numerous ideas and decades about the legal and social status of women - many of which do not agree with each other.
The kind of criticism of "feminists" you're regurgitating is one that the American right loves to rehearse. Sadly, it is little more than a propaganda and distraction technique. I would advise against falling for it. They are taking you for a fool.
I would recommend you look into the fuller range of ideas and debates within feminism. You'll probably find, as almost everyone does, that you already agree with a number of feminist perspectives. And you might even be surprised to see the ones you disagree with represented more accurately and fairly.
Funnily enough Dr K comes up with a video right when I need it the most
The way Aba articulates his words is amazing. I wish I could cohesively put together a thought process like that.
He is very intelligent, above avarage
@@blaqueknight he might plan his responses to questions. I do that when I know I have conversations. Like chess. I plan all my answers on what I could be possibly asked. Great introspective technique, and helps pre-formulate your sentence articulation.
"why didn't you see it as abuse"
Because society paints abuse as being violently beaten and chastised, just like people don't realize you can be raped by your partner.
Loved this discussion.
Would love to hear more in general, but also specifically on the last topic.
I just think it's sad that a decent chunk of the comments and replies under this video are insinuating that this is the exception and conversations about men's rights are "usually toxic." It seems like the only parts of this movement that get consistent mainstream attention are the toxic minority, and that's depressing. I hope this movement gains traction and becomes a catalyst for sweeping social change.
Edit: Man, the amount of victim-blaming and gaslighting going on in the replies is...expected, actually.
A bit of information for you guys: no, men did not create the laws and policies that cause discrimination today. Rich, white, landowning men with a mountain of political power did. Telling men that it's "a problem we caused" is idiotic because it was a system designed to disadvantage all but a few of us from the start.
As for the alternatives presented, MensLib is a respectable movement when it comes to combatting your own biases, but it lacks a lot of the pushiness that allows for sweeping social change, and can get a bit "women most affected" sometimes when talking about men's issues.
Feminism was never about men. Some of the issues they combat will benefit men when they're abolished, but only if they benefit women as well. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It's a women's rights movement.
But to claim that it solves all the problems men have while witnessing the rampant whataboutism that occurs in feminist spaces whenever issues such as male suicide and bias in family courts come up, I'm not feeling very confident in its ability to address them.
Calling it Men's Rights is cringe and ridiculous. This is isnt about rights. It's about men's issues.
@@SamPatricio7 Usually, the movement that discusses these kinds of issues, while also being pro-feminism and/or viewing these problems through the lens of things like patriarchy, is called the "Men's Liberation Movement."
@@SamPatricio7 Why is it not men's rights, and why would that be cringe?
@@wicked5999What rights don't we have as men right now?
@@miro5031 The draft shouldn't exist, period. But thats not an issue of rights. It's a shitty govt policy invented by men as well. As for speaking on men's issues, that's also not an issue of rights. That's a cultural problem created by...guess who, MEN too. What you need is liberation from these problems men have created for ourselves. You want to know what the solution is? Feminism. Ironic, isn't it?
Something I just realized is that I spend so much time watching Dr. K videos and being super interested in them and learning a lot that I never actually put into practice what I learn because I'm too busy watching his next video lmao. Guess I need to curb my Dr. K addiction.
Man this was a great talk but damn how you gunna end on such a good topic
I had the same thoughts
Man I dont wanna sound arrogant but being 19 and educating myself on all these different topics and viewing it from both sides and philosophy gives me like a head start and I can be prepared better for life.
Good for you just remember that life is hard and work towards helping others and being true to yourself for true contentment
For those who don't know Aba and Preach do a show on TH-cam with many topics on this. You should all check it out.
I stay away from the red pill movement; not because I disagree with them that woman like taller and more successful men, but because there alot of bitterness and resentment against woman that I didn't want anything to do with. But this dude came off as quite wholesome and mature
Bingo. Most men can settle for their equivalent of "Red Pill 101" videos were they learn to express a bit more confidence and get rid of the passive, "nice guy" shtick, but once they start advocating men treat women like sex toys that like to be treated like crap, or start spouting stuff like "repeal the 19th" then you gotta bail out fast
@@hazardousjazzgasm129 JUST BE CONFIDENT BRO
@@hazardousjazzgasm129 I won't claim I've watched all red pill content creators, but I haven't seen any of the bigger ones say anything like this. The repeal the 19th stuff is exclusively in the comments. Don't disagree there's alot of toxicity in the "communities" though, but there are alot of incels or recently shafted in divorce court dudes who are clearly angry.
But women can openly sh1t all over men and get zero blowback, men are held to a much higher standard. If you want proof of this, go look at the comments from women in the recent UK police officer murdering a woman story. I'll see if I can find the Facebook article with comments if you want. Women are unironically saying men should have a curfew so women can feel safe walking the streets and thousands of women are agreeing with almost no pushback. This kind of anti male toxicity will NEVER been seen as negatively. And this is just a news story with regular women airing their anti male views. You go into feminist Facebook groups and look at they talk about men... The all men are trash memes. And if you call this out, you're an anti feminist alt right bigot. The double standards are rediculous TBH
@@jamesbarnett6772 the red pill community (the people in the comments) often volunteer their time to provide the "blowback" you say women don't receive. Everyone is being attacked somewhere on the internet, our responsibility is not to develop victim complexes about it.
I’m what world is teaching men to be confident and find value in themselves as well as improve their physique and muscular structure a bad thing ? People hate on red pill because it exposes the ego women have and the hate they have towards men they deem as inferior. Red pill exposes the progressive agenda that women try to push on men and label them as evil, and liberals don’t like this being exposed
Warm interview. I'm glad it's online here.❤
In my experience the snow fort incident was a "reconfirming event" from an earlier and emotionally similar "critical modifying event" that took place around the age of four. In my experience we set up future experiences to resolve earlier betrayals but in end they turn into "reconfirming events."
The thing about suffering is that just because someone has suffered more than someone else doesn't invalidate someone else's suffering. Suffering is suffering.
This was an amazing talk. Such a rare find on youtube.
this guys emotional intelligence is level 1000
Emotional intelligence is a poorly defined term made up by a journalist. For you to define new trait, you have to find a way to measure it and distinguish it from other already well definded traits, which concept of EQ fails at.
@@yokko123 you must be fun at parties
@@yokko123 emotional intelligence level -100
@@cashmoney9676 😂😂
@@yokko123 IQ isn't something that works as a real measure of anything at all really and yet people use it.
Never thought I’d see this CROSSOVER!
They put out a video 3 months ago if you missed that one.
th-cam.com/video/VVFhdR0e4AE/w-d-xo.html
Crossovers are pretty expected on this channel.
This was Amazing, I honestly am so happy to see someone shedding light on men’s issues finally, even if we’re not all the same our problems can be correlated in some ways and I actually have a lot of problems and my own experience with most of that stuff Aba mentioned.
Not very far into the video but Aba’s description of thinking about issues on a macro-level versus a micro-level is really beautiful and eye-opening. Hierarchies do exist in society and each level may generally have different issues from other levels which should not be ignored, but at the end of the day it’s also important to look at individuals, because there are people of every gender, race, financial status, etc. who suffer.
Anyone else watch these and try to apply his advice and logic to your own issues because your country doesn't give a shit about mental health and anything online is far, far outside of what you can ever afford? Just me?
No not just you :) Dr.k calls it AOE healing.
Yep healthygamergg is extremely helpful for an Indian like me, in a country which doesn't give a crap about mental health currently. The cool thing is thing a lot of the concepts Dr k presents (like dharma, karma, nyaan, vidya, samskaar, samadhi) are all words which are prevalent in the Indian lingo. So I already have an intuitive understanding about some of the stuff Dr k says, but truth be told if Dr k wasn't good at teaching these things, I would've probably treated these ideas as just another Indian spiritual woo woo superstition.
Anyway Dr k has definitely changed my life, I feel content with the person I am now once I figured out my past undigested emotions, started meditating and have a sense of purpose. And it didn't cost me a penny. I'm glad the internet exists so I don't have to cross countries simply to get good quality mental health advice.
What country
@@Sam-gf3kh Latvia
@@culturedvulture2015 wish you the best for your future, might you inspire the people around you
“I think often times women don’t know how much we don’t know what we’re doing.”
Oof that one hit hard.
how come you two are so freaking smart and respectful? damn. i wish i could be like that. thank you for this talk. and yeah, that isn't worth much, but if i could, i'd give you the freaking fifty thousand likes and stuff. really, that channel and the guests have been one of the most inspiring things in my life recently. it feels like us, the broader masses, are finally using the new tech for getting a shared deeper understanding of our world instead of just internalising the ads and tweeting nonsense. like some very important part of our collective consciousness is awakening right here.
Man, this dude is a really good communicator.
Pausing at 35:03 since it made me think of something.
It's amazing how disconnected generations are. The idea of a man teaching his son how to approach women sounds like fiction, and I think that is also a perception problem since I feel many men are like "well I got lucky, I dno why she even likes me."
And I mean, when would you teach your son these things? If they're too young it's probably just weird, if they're 16 or older they're probably not wanting to even talk to you about these things; if they're mid-20s or older than they may even have more experience than you.
I myself am not a father, and while my dad worked hard to support his family, there was VERY little teaching involved. I think roles have a place, but when those roles are cemented in a society where a man needs to work every waking hour so his kids can live, who will teach his kids about being a man? Thoughts like these really send me down the path of extreme cynicism; our world is so screwed up on even the most basic and fundamental levels.
There are many more glaring problems that need more immediate fixes, but I think this one is overlooked simply because it takes an entire generation to see its effects. I may also be projecting my own failings and inadequacies, but my experiences are my experiences and it's difficult to break past them.
Ideally your dad spends a lot of time with you and also out and about and you just learn by watching the interactions he has with others. I don't think it should be some weird.. "ok here's how it works.." but that can help too. The weird thing as well is that men always meet their partners on their own and so then I meet them coupled up but never saw the actual process. It's such a weird thing.
I was able to land a few dates via sheer luck recently and none of them materialized into long term relationships lmao
Dr. K, would you consider making this magnificent crossover into a series with Aba? This was an eyeopener. Maybe Preach too, both of them + you are three of the most insightful men I follow online and applying advice I've heard from you has put me into the path I've always wanted to walk but never conceive I would ever be capable let alone dare of walking so I'm sure more people in need of some guidance we lacked during our upbringings could benefit from such project.
Much parasocial love from Mexico.
🌼🖤
This guy seems really smart, I respect how he formulates thoughts so well and seems very self reflective.
I much prefer it to his own channel, even the more recent content is pigeonholed/framed/received in ways I don't appreciate as much.
That's likely one of the most important conversations about these topics I've watched in a couple of years navigating through these red pill/menosphere communities.
Wow It's Rare that my issues and/or fears bring tears to my eyes because I often feel so calloused but I cried a few times throughout this. Even though I don't really have a way to go to/afford therapy for myself, these videos help me finally feel as though my struggles are understood and I don't feel so alone. Also, it helps me feel less bitter and angry so thank you so much for that. I've seen a few of these videos done with a few of the creators I watch now and after this one I definitely subscribed.
My observation is that we (men and women) sometimes are expected to just know how to do the role we fit into. I’m talking form a female perspective rn, but this seems to apply to everyone. A common phrase I have been told is “as a woman you should know how to do X”. It’s almost like it’s expected that u should know it form default, whit no training. Now I haven’t herd it too often, it happens every now and then, usually for other women.
For instance, how to be a mum. In reality it takes knowledge and training. And even tho you have the stereotype of all the other mums giving the pregnant woman advice for everything, it’s also somewhat just expected of you as a woman to just know what to do, at least core abilities. (Maybe I’m wrong here, I don’t have children, so corrections are welcome)
The reason I’m mentioning this is that it sounds just like what they talked about around min 20. You are expected to be the provider as a man, even when you have no real knowledge on how to, and u feel overwhelmed by the responsibility.
If I’m not wrong, this is called entropy in sociology. It’s a sense of lack of order and structure. If then leading to you feeling a lack of this to act. It happens though big changes in society or it can be experienced on a smaller scale. Like if it’s ur first time at a fancy restaurant, and u haven’t researched the etiquette - you will feel out of place and don’t know what to do.
Emile Durkheim entropy as a part of his theory and studies around suicide btw (his data handling have been criticized, as for when he noticed married men had a positive effect, while the married women often a negative, his solution was so “sacrifice” the women.)
Great conversation, and important to represent all struggles of our society!
I never even thought that other men would have experiences like mine where people of the opposite sex (or even the same sex) would put their hands on me in a flirtatious, sexual manner and I wouldn't want it. His reaction to it, the way he said he used to react to it is exactly the way I did too. Oh, it is what it is. Forget about it. But we shouldn't, should we? There are a lot of tough conversations I've never had happening in this video and it's made me very uncomfortable but hopefully it's a good thing they're being spoken about. And a good thing for me to feel uncomfortable bc it's being spoken about. The experiences of Aba are so close to mine on SO many levels. I don't know that I could have been able to speak my truth as well as he has here.
This being public might very well help moving into a better future.
Growing up with sisters, I've heard many all-female conversations. What I've noticed is that whenever one of them would start a new relationship, the first question about the new boyfriend the other girls asked would be: "What's his job?!"
With the heavily implied: "He is not a moneyless loser, right? You're not with this guy just because you like him, right? There's money in it for you, right?"
How many times did the job/income of a new girlfriend come up in an all-male conversation? Precisely zero times.
Do with that what you will. And yes, I know that it's anecdotal. But given that in all studies I'm aware of the two most predictive variables for men's success in dating were a) their socio-economic status (real earnings) and b) their educational status (potential earnings), I'd say it is a rule more than an exception.
And people wonder why men turn into incels or MGTOW.
Nah, guys' first question is "is she hot?"
So much deeper and more meaningful.
Same problem, different coat of paint; get over it
@@spencechantruueee
@@spencechan Girls care about the hotness as well. A lot. They seem to care about the same things as guys, plus the money. How much of that is their own desire for a rich partner, and how much is imposed by family and friends is an interesting question.
Lmao that's such fucking bullshit. I know how guys talk about girls, and guys absolutely talk about the income of their girlfriends. There are loads of guys out there who don't want to date some broke-ass person -- but according to you, not wanting to be with a loser is somehow superficial and gold-digging.
And what guys talk most about are: how little they paid for the chick; how the chick looked; and how easy it was to get sex from her.
Lots of guys think that dating is just free/cheap prostitution. And while they expect women to give them lots of services without anything in return, they whine about women being "gold diggers". How hypocritical.
I've never heard of a girl saying, by the way, "what's his job?"
I think it's just your family being assholes (which is apparent, given the way YOU behave as well). You and your relatives sound like shallow nimrods. Ever communicated with people outside of your household for a change? Or like go to a Reddit, AskWomen, AskMen, whatever?
"in all studies I'm aware of" -- that's probably zero. As for socio-economic status and educational status, you have absolutely no idea why those might even be success factors.
Education -> intelligence -> good sense of humor and interesting personality. This is why students often get married in grad school -- they are on a similar wavelength. And by the way, this is regardless of sexuality or gender. I have met plenty of guys who would give a woman a hard pass if she didn't have an education or show intelligence in conversation.
People with lower salaries or without income/financial stability are likelier to have emotional/mental trouble, not be able to pay for a date, and not have time or opportunity to date. How would a woman who has to work two fast-food shifts meet a guy? How would a guy who has to work night shift in a factory meet a chick? I'm giving hetero examples but the same applies to any sexual or romantic relationship. I know this because while I was an undergrad I was unemployed for quite a while, and had zero time outside of college. People with more money and better-paying salaries have more opportunities and confidence to go out on dates.
Your whole comment is just nonsensical whining. Gee, and at school boys would say "men are rational, it's women who are emotional!" -- but you guys are behaving like toddlers who are angry at not getting a date, so you vent against women. Here's a conundrum for you: how about men's rights without insulting women based on experiences you cherry-picked from your past and strawmen that you made up???
I never get to see Aba's shoes, but now that I have, I respect him more.
I've always wanted people to respect me for my footwear.
24:49 I didn't/don't have that either. I never even go to my parents for advice. I think the best thing to do in this situation is asking friends who are ahead of you. But I think it's important to learn how to bring it up - don't open with "I don't know how to approach women", be more specific with something like "how do you introduce yourself to women" and keep asking questions.
This is great advice in many situations. I've often found that my old-fashioned parents have the worst advice about dating or making friends in the modern age. Instead, I make friends the way I think is right, and then I ask them for advice just like you do. I also like to often ask strangers for advice across different platforms/message boards, just to get outsiders' opinions, even if I don't usually act on it.
I’m alone on this lol. Every friend/person I asked about this just told me something along the lines of “you aren’t what women like so just don’t try, and don’t ever ask me about this stuff again.”
Takes the whole “you have it or you don’t” concept to another level.
@@nomadsland8322 yikes. they sound like bad friends honestly......................
I remember when I was a kid and we were doing something in class that had us all huddled around something (I don't remember what) but then some girl whispered something to the teacher and the teacher got mad at me and didn't tell me why. She just told me to flip my green card to yellow(no recess) and go back to my desk. I was pissed but I obeyed and went to my desk and put my head down in frustration.
Then the girl said I wasn't paying attention or something so the teacher told me to flip my card to red(parent call and detention) which was frustrating cause I couldn't see anything regardless since they were all huddled around. When I flipped my card and went back to my seat, I was then accused of flipping other people's cards!!!
I was just continuously accused of things I didn't do as a 6 year old and looking back it might have been sexism or racism or something. There were so many other scenarios that played out that reinforced both possibilities. Nowadays, I usually avoid other people, especially women so I don't get manipulated or gaslighted. I just wish I didn't have to doubt people's intentions constantly and live in paranoia of being put in a kafkaesque situation again.
You should tell the story of how you and Mrs. K got together, how did you two know that you can completely trust each other with all your vulnerabilities?
Edit: Very helpful interview by the way, thank you for doing what you do, both of you. Thank you both.
1:15:47 he literally said exactly how I feel , and it feels nice to hear that you’re not alone in this
Great video, Thank you both very much for your openess!
Totally agree with doctor K.
Just one person, listening at the right moment is more than enough.
It makes me feel like a wimp when i agree with anything in this podcast. I hate that i feel like that. Keep up the good work guys, maybe one day i'll be able to face my feelings without feeling like absolute shit. (before you respond: i live in eastern europe, it's normal here)
You need better friends. Also Eastern Europe here and there is a bunch of toxicity like that here. But thankfully it festers in friend groups not really culture in general. At least I feel like that. We had a big group of friends, smoking weed and being street bums and thankfully we weeded out toxic people and grew closer and found others who were similar that joined in. It also helps that I'm not scared to talk about stuff like that so it made it very clear who is toxic and I was many times surprised who was actually very emotionally expressive when they got the chance. Big scary dudes suddenly talking deep with you (especially when you are in a smaller group or alone with them). Don't be content with those feelings and people who don't allow you to express yourself. GOOD LUCK AND LOTS OF LOVE BROTHER.
@@HOVNA perfectly said
Feel free to move to Germany, we will discriminate against migrant labor evenly.
I hope not to participate in perpetuating this.
There was a comedian named Patrice O'neal (RIP) who had very insightful views on this issue. He based alot of his comedy around it and he has alot of material on his show "The Black Philip show"
Rip Patrice O’Neal who used humour to try and bridge the gap of understanding between men and women.
I always get criticized by other girls when I say I feel bad for men sometimes because of the immense pressure of having to be forward and in charge and put together. Not to say that I can't take the initiative in pursuing a man or a leadership position, but there's a difference between *can* and *should*.
Masculinity has become defined by such shallow, abnormal and damaging things. And the expectations ladies have has become ridiculous. And you can't even be like "fine, forget it I'm not conforming" when these are the rules to play the dating game. I have women in my family who belittle their husbands (as if it's okay) instead of being supportive and building them up and wonder why the men are prideful and resistant towards them.
You deserve to be criticized.
As someone who started playing mmos before COVID and got into endgame during the lockdown this "expectation of competency" hits the nail on the head PERFECTLY.
1:00:00 Interestingly enough, where I live in Australia, football shows have kind of started to branch out into these. Mostly men (but not exclusively) but will do segments talking about mental health and the like. Still a long way to go but it is an interesting recent trend.
That's interesting. Do they have any of the videos on TH-cam and if so, can you please point me in the right direction? It sounds interesting
I am 28 years old. I have never had a girlfriend and I am a virgin. I have been bullied and abused but never loved. All I ever wanted was to be with someone. But I am a reject and I don't know how to get dates and therefore I can't get an opportunity. I needed community, sharing and caring. I needed emotional bonding. I needed to be able to give and receive love and affection.
It's too late now. Life and society are cruel, cold and hateful. Everything is colored by cruelty, callousness and hatred.
I'm 19 and i already expect myself to be forever single even though my looks are fine. I really feel you, people seem like brainwashed wicked npcs and the best girls are 2D ones. It's a classic. Living and growing up is hard when you are (supposedly) the only one around who knows how pure platonic love is important.
But i still believe that i'll stay true to myself and maybe will get lucky enough to stumble across someone =)
Hey man, I know it doesn't seem like it but it's not too late (my mother even knows someone who had her first relationship over the age of 50). First you should take away some pressure and importance in finding a girlfriend. Sure, I get that it's a deeply human need to have someone to love, but for now, focus on self-love. What can you do to gain confidence? Practice self-love, social skills, personal/professional skills, get active etc. Also, if you do have people you're close with, ask them for help.
Personal advice: get a dog. Life has become so much better for me with one
Dude, I was bullied all through highschool which left my socially scarred for a long time. I got my first girlfriend at 30.
It's never too late. Don't feel hopeless, you have to keep trying
I feel like crying reading what you wrote :(
That is me, except I'm 22
Beautiful, guys. Thanks for sharing this.
I recently had a woman tell me that I shouldn't feel bad about the phrase "Kill all men" because it's the same as being told "No Running" How can you feel attacked when you're not the one running?
honesty I was so shocked and confused by the statement that I couldn't even come with a proper response. Those two things have nothing to do with each other.
If I was to make them one to one the phrase they uses as an example would be changed to "Anyone who runs should die"
And truthfully and honestly I don't understand how you can tell somebody to their face that you hate them and expect them not to feel something.
She sounds like such a nice person...
@@randomserbianguy5677 but that's my biggest problem she was nice.
@@kamerensmith4211 that actually is mind blowing
Hurt people hurt people
I say they most likely don't even understand or ever thought it out. I know alot nice people that I know would do bad thing of they didn't have to follow rules. They live a life with no introspection.
really enjoyed that conversation, the end got me hard because I lost my "beacon" some time ago and it was so hard. Through this community and also new people around me that have become "beacons" for me I'm able to enjoy life again and function, thanks Dr. K your work changed my life.
I loved this talk, really helped me to process and think about the things in my life that made me the way I am. Thank you guys
Where is the other video where Dr K and Aba talk about grief?