If you watch the start of the round, ばん throws out qcf+p over and over and over and over right up until the match starts then he stops. I suspect he also noticed and was trying to bait the bot.
Alongside the autojumps this player's whiff punishes are also incredibly on point to a kinda sus degree, every time I saw them like walking away or walking forwards and the opponent would 2mp or whatever and instantly would get counterpoked and die. Its again something that in isolation, "nice footsies that whiff punish/ spacing trap was so well done" but it happened just often enough with so rarely letting a button just whiff that it caught my attention.
It may be by the fact that this player doesn't need to worry at all for fireballs and the air game, he can just focus 100% on the footsies so he can whiff punish way more easily.
@@NycolasPedrothis is an under examined side effect of this sort of cheating, a lot of what makes FGs so hard is the mental stack and a lot of good offence is about overloading that mental stack. If I don’t have to worry about fireballs I’m playing a different game to you
Yeah this dude's whiff punishing is the best in the world. If someone's whiff punishing is THAT good, his fireball counter jumping isn't even that sus in comparison. But I am sure Broski didn't want to say anything about his whiff punishes because the initial reaction will be "lol u just suck he is better than you thats all"
The messed up thing is that you can set those cheats to a percentage response. So say you have a player with decent but still human counter DI reactions, he can set the cheat to auto-fire counter DI 20% of the time, lets say that under normal circumstances his natural reactions are like 50%. Meaning that when he fails to DI himself the bot will take over and do it for him 20% of the time on top of his own reactions. This would make detecting him harder as well since 50% of those DIs he gets will look like a normal human DIing when you check the inputs so that extra 20% won't stand out at all. If the player in this video set his cheat to 30% instead of 100% no one would be the wiser.
Incredible narrative foreshadowing in that last video. I was wondering why that segment was kept in the upload, and now it's all paying off. Bravo Broski
I think the biggest takeaway is his input registration. I've never seen someone consistently input their buttons without pressing them once or twice again. It's like robotic to me
I saw the tweet yesterday and out of curiosity I checked some of his other replays. Not only the timing of his jumps is highly suspicious, but in another match against Fuudo I noticed that sometimes he managed to perfect parry Deejay's heavy Air Slasher even though the gap between both hits is incredibly small, and it happened more than once. I think Fuudo realized his defense was terrible aside from those exploits because he fought him again, went full offense against his Luke and beat him 2-0. He also had several other characters on 1600-1700 MR post-reset with like 40 hours of ranked which is also kind of weird. Without looking at his replays it could've easily passed as someone's alt account.
I think the main reason how Fido beat him is because of the “派生” that DJ can do Not many characters have such unpredictable movements to AI I am not saying characters with variations are not able to be beaten The thing is that the AI cannot really respond to such rapid options
if you play charge chars this is common. this would also be a common habit to pick up and retain if you play anime fighters that have chicken blocking/jump os. not too sus by itself since i have this habit myself having come from anime games and playing deejay, but it is worth noting for sure.
@@SSM24_ Capcom rules and the built in SF6 SOCD cleaning would turn down + up into neutral input now. Their stance changed when SF6 came out for whatever reason.
once the cheat engine has been injected, making it subtle is extremely easy imagine 10% auto jump in with variable response frames of 5 to 12, with randomized input slop then another 10% auto DI then another 10% auto PP then another 10% auto whiff punish then another 10% auto anti air ...
We have now reached an era where people are going to say a lot of people are cheating now. Unless Capcom does something about cheaters soon, we are going to enter a COD era of gaming where now good players going to be called "cheaters" when they are not.
@@peterpansie5 but if your doing tournament organizations for an entire country and you no one has ever heard of him including other organizers, it does.
Leverless controls hitting diagonals cleanly without ever accidentally hitting one of the adjacent orthagonals that reliably is pretty suspect, honestly. You *can* go straight to diagonals reliably, but it's a conscious effort and nobody's doing that on common, low precision inputs like a forward jump.
Petition to have a full coffeezilla style segment where you expose cheaters like this in an over the top cgi detective studio bar with a capybara barista
After playing fighting games for a number of years, and/or at a high level... you can just feel when a dude is cheating. Certain things you see from them go beyond human reflexes.
I think the combos might also be automated here (not that it matters at this point since it’s pretty clear there is cheats involved otherwise). First thing I saw at 6:45 was that they continued the combo after light flash knuckle missed the second hit. Obviously this could be a flub that any player could make in the heat of the moment, but I’d imagine an auto combo cheat would only care if the opponent gets hit or blocked, not taking into account things like spacing or hits whiffing from attacks. This only happens once, so it could just be a misinput. What REALLY gets me is that in the middle of combos he ALWAYS goes to neutral in the middle of links. At 6:53 for example after the jump in on the fire ball they do the back heavy kick, stay neutral for almost a full second and then right on cue switches to down back for the crouching heavy punch. They do the same at 8:06, 11:15, 12:10, 12:46, 13:53. I’m not going to pretend that I’m an expert at this game (platinum is my highest rank) but I’d imagine for consistency and safety it would be better to just keep holding down back when doing the crouch heavy, since you might block something like an ex DP in the case you drop the link at some point and since you were already holding back for the back heavy kick it would make sense to just do down back. There is the chance that there is something I’m missing here in this “technique” but I’m almost certain it’s an auto combo cheat being programmed to do the inputs at the exact required time, and that they didnt do their homework to make it look believable on the input reader. Again, Im no expert at this game, and it is already evident that something is afoot, but i would hesitate to call this guy a low master rank when there is a not insignificant chance that the combos he does are automated as well.
Though these are definitely sus AF and something is clearly afoot, his only jump ins are in response to a fireball so he has a clear path and doesn't need to think about the potential of getting dp'd. It's kind of like when you see somebody whiff a throw and you hit your big heavy button into a dp that you wouldn't have time to confirm from the first hit, but because they were stuck in the animation you know they can't really do anything. Again I don't mean to say this guy isn't cheating. The inputs are clearly sus and there really isn't a good reason for him to be doing them that way.
@@MasterFaiyn The issue is that he literally only jumps in response to fireballs. He goes the entire game rooted to the floor and just so happens to perfectly punish each fireball with a jump in. He also jumps within 4 frames of the fireballs startup, so he isn’t reacting (humans struggle to react at 16 frames). If he was jumping in during other scenarios besides perfectly punishing a fireball then it may have been argued that he is 37 levels deep in his opponents head, but he never does that, instead he stays on the ground at all times focusing entirely on whiff punishing, since he doesn’t have to react to anything the opponent does.
@@georgefrancis5635 Hey. I think you're missing my point. The dude is undoubtedly cheating in some fashion. I was just pointing out that because the jump ins are automated and cheating, there really isn't any reason to prepare for something like a DP because it simply isn't possible that it could happen. (considering the jump only happens when a guaranteed punish will occur)
@MasterFaiyn Sorry, I think I’m getting what your point is, is it that he doesn’t have to confirm that the jump in will hit because he will only ever jump in successfully, meaning he has more time to prepare himself for the jump in punish?
This kinda stuff is really insidious - once people become aware that it's possible they start to doubt the outcome of every match. This is how even really good players can fall into cheating, they assume that everyone else is doing the same thing and they're just "leveling the playing field".
This is what's happened to chess. The cheating is completely out of control in every game now. FPS, chess, and now FGC. Back to one player story games I guess.
Yeah, there's no denying this person is cheating. Even though it's not common, it's really unfortunate to see. But great analysis Broski, hopefully Capcom can better detect this in the future.
I’ve played quite a few people that were obviously cheating lol . If they always react to your shxt no matter how much you switch it up …… perfectly every time ….. it’s a giveaway
@@yeabih5607I wouldn’t instantly say they’re cheating. Some people are that good. Or your mix wasn’t as great as you thought. I’d recommend checking replays to be sure before calling someone out. Just to be safe.
I'm not trying to be first, I just am. Thank you for your diligent investigation, detective Broski Oh wow I paused at 8:11, his inputs are crazy! He went from down back for 2 frames, to up forward for 2 frames to down for 3 frames, without any neutral inputs (okay, that could be possible on a leverless, but that is insane). He also has nearly frame perfect whiff punishes. I would wager he has an auto-whiff punisher too. He is holding back, and then when he detects an opponent has whiffed, he gets a neutral input + medium punch and right after that, continues holding back even though he's mid combo and not a charge character (maybe it's just habit?). I think his script is automatically neutralising his directional input to give him the medium punch which is why he continues holding back after it comes out.
Also there was another cheater with russian nickname (actually their nicknames sound really weird for native ppl in RU region) and iirc even Phenom posted something about them on twitter. I'd say that Интернационал is another player who abuses cheats and probably uses vpn to connect to some other regions (there should be shitty ping then, but Fuudo played 3 ranked sets with that guy)
So I just played a game a few days ago against a Modern Luke, and I got completely waxed. I play Zangief. I was so pissed off, because this guy countered literally everything I did so I felt like I was just being a super scrub and telegraphing my moves like an idiot. Now??? I'm going to watch this replay and see.
Yes. I just ran into a bunch of players that were 1 frame jumping my fireballs every single time. Even close range ex fireballs and all versions of denjin charge fireballs from all distances. I also ran into a Juri players that kept drive rushing non-stop. Even when i kept shut her down (after a few matches of getting my face beat in by it), she kept drive rushing anyway. When she went into burn out, they didn't know how to play the game at all. Going to turn off crossplay tonight (I'm on PS5) to see if still encounter these situations. Edit: Another thing i noticed is that a lot of players are pushing buttons while they are being hit or blocking and the moment there is a gap, a normal comes out and they go into a huge combo. Looks sus because they are consistent with it.
Yup and it’s been happening since release . Shxt made stop playing for like 2 months . There’s just way people could ALWAYS PERFECTLY REACT TO SHXT . Like they never missed even tho you’d switch up patterns and all that . Instant reaction . Not even pros have displayed that level of guessing and reaction that consistently .
Drive Impact seems to be useless now as everyone just picking up the game has this amazing ability to counter better than the pros to the point it’s almost useless to use it.
Unfortunately, your right. There are already people in this comment section saying that have encountered soo many cheaters, when in fact they probably just got stomped. That said, the cheating issue is growing and desperately needs addressing.
Yeah I think this ends up being a thing at every competitive game with primarely online formats at some point. There was this major controversy of that kind in CS during the pandemics, when the players from a team named "CHAOS" (an unknown organization up to that point) were seen doing some preety sketchy stuff, although not blatantly cheating. This brought up a lot of concern regarding the competitive integrity of the game at the time, since high level players could be getting those little assistances and we, as the community, would never know.
Another thing that seemed odd was how clean a lot of his inputs were in the input history. The other players had a lot of buttons being pressed during combos and sometimes while blocking. But the cheater had a lot more precise and clean inputs as if they were all perfectly calculated.
Even on hitbox hitting up diagonal that cleanly every time is not likely. You'd hit right or up a frame earlier at least sometimes. I'm sure this got covered in the actual stream but just so people know.
Also worth noting that if the fireball is inescapable with jump due to frame disadvantage, they seem to always parry it. I wonder if they never jump outside of the auto-jump to avoid detection for when a jump is auto-input while already in the air. Just remembering that cheater who got outed by consistently inputting counter DI even when in burnout.
I think they just don't manually jump because it became a habit from playing with this cheat. Why do a jump that's potentially punishable when the cheat can do a good jump instead? As they fell into this habit, they probably didn't even consider how suspicious it would be if they never jumped except when a fireball came out.
i have a feeling hes doing more than just fireball jump, every input for every special is perfect no mash ever, not even a double tap to confirm a button.
Paying attention to how many frames each input is registered for is also a big indicator. He perfect parried the fireball at 8:24 and only had touched it for 1 frame. Sure that can happen sometimes but to be able to press and release an input for only 1 frame is pretty suspicious to me, espeically right before that perfectly timed jump.
I'm Japanese, and when I matched with this person, the total time for ranked matches was about 30 hours, and there were two legendary characters. Also, at that time, ACT2's legendary border was 2070 or higher.
whats strange about sf6 system is that the flag you choose when you first open the game determines what regions leaderboard you show up on. I'm living in the US but have the Romanian flag and I only show up on the europe leaderboard.
This also exists for non-fireball characters. I play Manon and I run into a lot of players who suspiciously neutral jump every single heavy button at a 100% rate
Manon’s neutral is pretty predictable. If you’re tossing those slow buttons too much you’re gonna get thrashed, cheating or not. Not saying you DEFINITELY didn’t encounter a cheater of course, but I still highly encourage giving people the benefit of the doubt until you have legitimate proof.
Very well done spotting the cheats, any sort of competition online really needs to have a good anti cheat or either we will be heading the same way as Call of Duty.
Hitbox players CAN go from down-back to up-forward in one frame but because of SOCD cleaning sometimes you'll catch neutrals in there. Nobody is THAT perfect.
also worth mentioning is even before the perfect jump timing they perfectly follow the walk back to maintain jump punish spacing, I don't care how good someone is you're not doing that consistently
if that was variable and they incorporated long range jump in punishes it'd be pretty much indistinguishable from any other good player: like maybe 55-60% success rate or so
I wonder if I've run into this in Diamond as well. I play Guile and there have been a few players that I swear I just can never throw a boom at unless it's full screen. No matter how much I delay, do upside down kicks, sobats, even stand and walk back a few frames trying to bait the jump or just general buttons trying to change their focus as soon as I press forward and punch the jump comes and always in time to punish the notoriously fast recovery of sonic boom. I literally asked myself out loud "how am I always wrong?" I'm deliberately trying to make this difficult to see coming, how is he reading it so well?
also his buttons are flawless not a single button mispress, dropped input... nothing, never mashes anything. also parrying sand blast on reaction most times which is just crazy.
dcq matched him once and immediately felt things were off. Like he micro walk back and st hp whiff punished JP's st mp 😂😂 if you looked even closer you can see every counter hit or whiff punish from him was like 2 frames reaction at most
On the point of determining patterns and the difficulty of detecting "subtle" cheaters, as in, cheats with a lower than 100%trigger probability: I think it's important to apply a little science here. Psychology studies on perception show us that human visual detection times are more or less hard capped at around 200ms / 12 frames. If you present visual stimuli faster than that, most of the time subjects will not even be able to determine what actually was displayed on the screen. Naturally, there's more complication hidden here considering there's also a motor reaction involved and an argument can be made that subconscious perception might have a slightly lower perception threshold, but in any case, ANY tendency of a player to react faster than that, even if it only happens twice or thrice in a whole set, should be eyed with suspicion. There's even more parameters that could be checked, such as the variance in reaction time. Even for professionals who have trained manual processes for decades there's a variance band for reaction times, humans are not clockwork. I feel like it should be rather easy for capcom to run a simple test on replay input data to look for these inhuman properties, no matter how rare they happen, and then highlight suspicious players for human/community review. At the very least this would force cheat designers to come up with weaker, more human like scripts. TLDR: Please capcom, step up your anti cheat efforts, there's tools and methods you're not using.
That would be extremely problematic. One of the most common anti-fireball tactics is to feel out their timing and jump when you think they'll fireball instead of reacting to it. It'd flag virtually every match with fireball zoning.
I always said this. If a 1500mr player starts to cheat its really hard to catch him. You can turn on the cheat only in clutch moments/full resources. If a good (non top) player cheat is gonna win the tournament
Also I believe he maybe using a auto perfect parry cheat at 8:05 he holds back and hits parry for a single frame and gets the perfect parry on the fireball. at high level I've seen people OS their parry with a buffered forward jump to punish fireball recoveries or something to catch the recovery frames if they get the perfect parry. He does nothing but continues to hold back then auto jumps the follow up fireball and his inputs show him holding down to down back after the jump. clearly he was just trying to block but the cheat engine parried and jumped for him in a short burst of time.
I'm seeing this video a month later and based on what I am seeing here and what my replays showed I played against a cheater 3 days ago. They are becoming more bold
The fact the Up-forward motion after a fireball imput is always 4 frames. Coming from a crouch/ block motion... im scared for the integrity of this game.
Jumping Sandblast 100% of the time (considering how fast it is.) is already suspicious. The frame data showing they were walking back and changing direction instantly is a deadgiveaway.
Every single jump forward happens after 3-5F of opponent's fireballs, with no inputs between their last direction and right into up-forward. Every single whiff punish happens 5-8F after the opponent's button, again, with no inputs between their last direction / button, and it always went frame perfect into the whiff punish button, for example the 2MPs always input the down-back + MP on the same exact frame. It's very obviously a cheater after you take this all into account.
I'm surprised this kind of cheating hasn't happened as much in other games, I think one other case was on Melee netplay with auto SDI cheats. Only most cheaters before were clear dunderheads, so thanks for pointing this out broski
i think melee is just absurdly hard to actually subtly cheat in in ways that boost your gameplay enough for cheaters to care about. analog inputs and the less structured nature of smash punish simply make cheating effictively cheating too complicated
I think the biggest giveaways were the perfect jumping over projectiles, the suspect inputs (they're WAY too clean) and lack of cardinals from some transitions in movement.
from having watched tons of videos of cheaters getting exposed in different communities like speedrunning. It is usually the best players cheating, just so they get that little bit more of an advantage. It also makes them a lot harder to catch if they actually have a good understanding of the game
There are Replay channels that show this guy as well. Watching those replays just casually I never really thought there was cheating involved. That is really a scary thought.
Help me understand the mindset of a cheater."I beat you even though I really I didn't.... that's why I'm better than you at this game because I'm not!"
I have said from the get go of online competive game tournaments for money or whatever THEY MUST ALL BE PLAYED ON CONSOLE ONLY with a controller, no gamepad no other shit (providing the game is on console) because it is WAY WAY WAY too easy to hack on a PC evidence by this video IF he is hacking you can see he's on a PC, it is much much harder to hack a console without causing irreparable damage to it, voiding its warranty etc etc.
I think whenever he couldnt jump the cheat would make him perfect parry the fireballs aswell. Like in a block string. It shows 2 or 3 times in this video i believe. And he was whif punishing VERY well aswell, idk if thats also something to look at but he did also 3 or so times in this video and i dont remember any instance where enemy whiffed and he didnt punish perfectly so theres a lot going on here, but i guess the easiest to "spot" its the jumping cuz he does it frame 1 consistently.
That last jump in from the first game I noticed that within 3 frames he jumped forward but then holds down. as if he wanted to crouch but the cheat engine jumped for him so he held forward instead. 6:47
What if he turns the auto jump trigger rate to something like 70%, and turns the jump frame delay to a random number between 2 - 10, I can't imagine anyone could ever caught it.
Its makes sense why he chose the auto jump on fireball start up, its a guaranteed punish, this is also a problem in many games too, good players using a few subtle cheats to get the edge afraid of losing
Yeah i have run into some people with very suspect "skills and tactics." Perfect throw techs every time, insane whiff punishes everytime, jumping out of every command grab, perfect parries every attempt....
I could be wrong here, but also everytime he jumps, his inputs immediately change to up forward, but also... It shifts back to what he was holding before that, during the air, usually down back, because they were defending. There is no reason to press down back immediately after the jump like that.
12:33 ばん tests him with a feint after seeing it once, and nothing. fireballs directly after and gets perfectly jumped on again. I'd be pissed
Did you ever Play D3 in ssbb
If you watch the start of the round, ばん throws out qcf+p over and over and over and over right up until the match starts then he stops. I suspect he also noticed and was trying to bait the bot.
Ban also showed how he always reacted to every fireball with jump 1 frame after.
Yeah you're right. He was suspicious too
huh? that wasn't a feint, a fireball came out
Alongside the autojumps this player's whiff punishes are also incredibly on point to a kinda sus degree, every time I saw them like walking away or walking forwards and the opponent would 2mp or whatever and instantly would get counterpoked and die. Its again something that in isolation, "nice footsies that whiff punish/ spacing trap was so well done" but it happened just often enough with so rarely letting a button just whiff that it caught my attention.
It may be by the fact that this player doesn't need to worry at all for fireballs and the air game, he can just focus 100% on the footsies so he can whiff punish way more easily.
@@NycolasPedrothis is an under examined side effect of this sort of cheating, a lot of what makes FGs so hard is the mental stack and a lot of good offence is about overloading that mental stack.
If I don’t have to worry about fireballs I’m playing a different game to you
I've had a jab countered from mid screen by a full drive rush combo. As long as people are play SF6 Capcom don't care if people cheating
i also noticed how the whiff punishes were too perfect, it's like the jump ins, the success to attempt rate makes it sus...
Punk is the pro player that I see doing this frequently but not to the degree of being sus, he is just really good at that.
His inputs are TAS-like.
No "wasted effort", just perfect inputs.
DCQ also did a deep dive on this cheater on his Bilibili live stream. Basically, he found this guy can whiff punish with his heavy punch every time
i did notice that during the game play. a suspect level of footsies goin on
Yeah this dude's whiff punishing is the best in the world. If someone's whiff punishing is THAT good, his fireball counter jumping isn't even that sus in comparison.
But I am sure Broski didn't want to say anything about his whiff punishes because the initial reaction will be "lol u just suck he is better than you thats all"
The messed up thing is that you can set those cheats to a percentage response. So say you have a player with decent but still human counter DI reactions, he can set the cheat to auto-fire counter DI 20% of the time, lets say that under normal circumstances his natural reactions are like 50%. Meaning that when he fails to DI himself the bot will take over and do it for him 20% of the time on top of his own reactions. This would make detecting him harder as well since 50% of those DIs he gets will look like a normal human DIing when you check the inputs so that extra 20% won't stand out at all.
If the player in this video set his cheat to 30% instead of 100% no one would be the wiser.
Just look at the stats 9999😮.
This is why offline tourney should be focus
They are.... Online is usually just qualifiers...
@@CornerPressurEwell then their not the focus,not untill after the qualifiers are they smh.
Yeah until you've proven yourself at an offline major I don't really care much about your rank or online tourney wins.
Yeah that’s why I hate the online world tour could just be a bunch of cheaters taking all the spots for capcom cup
@@jy61looks like we got a major tourney winner here 😂 obviously all fighting game players only compete to impress jy61 himself😂😂
Incredible narrative foreshadowing in that last video. I was wondering why that segment was kept in the upload, and now it's all paying off. Bravo Broski
Brovo bravski
I think the biggest takeaway is his input registration. I've never seen someone consistently input their buttons without pressing them once or twice again. It's like robotic to me
Expect the first person he plays against doesn't mash either and one has single inputs.... That guy a cheater also? Stop sucking.
Yah even SUPER clean inputs will have an extra one here or there
I saw the tweet yesterday and out of curiosity I checked some of his other replays. Not only the timing of his jumps is highly suspicious, but in another match against Fuudo I noticed that sometimes he managed to perfect parry Deejay's heavy Air Slasher even though the gap between both hits is incredibly small, and it happened more than once. I think Fuudo realized his defense was terrible aside from those exploits because he fought him again, went full offense against his Luke and beat him 2-0. He also had several other characters on 1600-1700 MR post-reset with like 40 hours of ranked which is also kind of weird. Without looking at his replays it could've easily passed as someone's alt account.
I think the main reason how Fido beat him is because of the “派生” that DJ can do
Not many characters have such unpredictable movements to AI
I am not saying characters with variations are not able to be beaten
The thing is that the AI cannot really respond to such rapid options
@@warning2246It’s already been proven that the AI can’t react and anti-air to DeeJay’s command jump
at one point i saw him stand block for a whiffed overhead. he probably has way more stuff automated than just jumps for fireballs.
If you see the inputs for the jump he's doing down, up-forward, down. Which would never make any sense
best thing I can think is to somehow prevent an aerial special move incase they need an air-to-air
but yeah, that doesn't make it seem normal
As an exclusively charge character player, I can tell you that holding down during a jump makes perfect sense.
Maybe for Luke it doesn't.
if you play charge chars this is common. this would also be a common habit to pick up and retain if you play anime fighters that have chicken blocking/jump os. not too sus by itself since i have this habit myself having come from anime games and playing deejay, but it is worth noting for sure.
It could happen if you're using a Hitbox which resolves down+up as an up input, but yeah it definitely caught my attention.
@@SSM24_ Capcom rules and the built in SF6 SOCD cleaning would turn down + up into neutral input now. Their stance changed when SF6 came out for whatever reason.
Another thing that i noticed is that every jump input was exactly 4 frames whichis pretty weird if you ask me
They’re also jumping on the first frame of the fireball too, right? Like the fireball and jump startup at the same time every time?
@@artmowenca230 Close, seems to be within 1-4 frames of the opponent's fireball input. Much faster than the fastest possible human reactions.
nah he had a 2 frame one as well, but yeah lotta 4 frame holds for sure
Also holding UF for exactly 4F every time.
once the cheat engine has been injected, making it subtle is extremely easy
imagine 10% auto jump in with variable response frames of 5 to 12, with randomized input slop
then another 10% auto DI
then another 10% auto PP
then another 10% auto whiff punish
then another 10% auto anti air
...
this is assuming the player is strong enough to win the other 90% of interactions without cheats
@@theluigifan42I guess the main concern is that it’s customizable. Maybe even during the match. And regardless, it’s an insanely strong advantage.
We have now reached an era where people are going to say a lot of people are cheating now. Unless Capcom does something about cheaters soon, we are going to enter a COD era of gaming where now good players going to be called "cheaters" when they are not.
Him beating Fuudo easily should have been a red flag already. 🤣
TO'ing for Russian scene since 2016 and there's no such player in our community even among Far Eastern players.
Thank you for TO'ing o7
Yeah right.
@@fullarmourtracksuit4023look at his channel lol
This kinda reply is weird like he wasn’t in my tourney so he doesn’t exist. Means nothing
@@peterpansie5 but if your doing tournament organizations for an entire country and you no one has ever heard of him including other organizers, it does.
I love at 11:04 the people are still moving despite the lukes frozen mid air lmao
Its rampid in street fighter. It feels like fighting SNK boss from early 90s. It detects everything input on startup
Leverless controls hitting diagonals cleanly without ever accidentally hitting one of the adjacent orthagonals that reliably is pretty suspect, honestly. You *can* go straight to diagonals reliably, but it's a conscious effort and nobody's doing that on common, low precision inputs like a forward jump.
Facts
Petition to have a full coffeezilla style segment where you expose cheaters like this in an over the top cgi detective studio bar with a capybara barista
Please, THIS!
After playing fighting games for a number of years, and/or at a high level... you can just feel when a dude is cheating. Certain things you see from them go beyond human reflexes.
I think the combos might also be automated here (not that it matters at this point since it’s pretty clear there is cheats involved otherwise).
First thing I saw at 6:45 was that they continued the combo after light flash knuckle missed the second hit. Obviously this could be a flub that any player could make in the heat of the moment, but I’d imagine an auto combo cheat would only care if the opponent gets hit or blocked, not taking into account things like spacing or hits whiffing from attacks. This only happens once, so it could just be a misinput.
What REALLY gets me is that in the middle of combos he ALWAYS goes to neutral in the middle of links. At 6:53 for example after the jump in on the fire ball they do the back heavy kick, stay neutral for almost a full second and then right on cue switches to down back for the crouching heavy punch. They do the same at 8:06, 11:15, 12:10, 12:46, 13:53. I’m not going to pretend that I’m an expert at this game (platinum is my highest rank) but I’d imagine for consistency and safety it would be better to just keep holding down back when doing the crouch heavy, since you might block something like an ex DP in the case you drop the link at some point and since you were already holding back for the back heavy kick it would make sense to just do down back. There is the chance that there is something I’m missing here in this “technique” but I’m almost certain it’s an auto combo cheat being programmed to do the inputs at the exact required time, and that they didnt do their homework to make it look believable on the input reader.
Again, Im no expert at this game, and it is already evident that something is afoot, but i would hesitate to call this guy a low master rank when there is a not insignificant chance that the combos he does are automated as well.
Though these are definitely sus AF and something is clearly afoot, his only jump ins are in response to a fireball so he has a clear path and doesn't need to think about the potential of getting dp'd.
It's kind of like when you see somebody whiff a throw and you hit your big heavy button into a dp that you wouldn't have time to confirm from the first hit, but because they were stuck in the animation you know they can't really do anything.
Again I don't mean to say this guy isn't cheating. The inputs are clearly sus and there really isn't a good reason for him to be doing them that way.
@@MasterFaiyn The issue is that he literally only jumps in response to fireballs. He goes the entire game rooted to the floor and just so happens to perfectly punish each fireball with a jump in. He also jumps within 4 frames of the fireballs startup, so he isn’t reacting (humans struggle to react at 16 frames).
If he was jumping in during other scenarios besides perfectly punishing a fireball then it may have been argued that he is 37 levels deep in his opponents head, but he never does that, instead he stays on the ground at all times focusing entirely on whiff punishing, since he doesn’t have to react to anything the opponent does.
@@georgefrancis5635 Hey. I think you're missing my point. The dude is undoubtedly cheating in some fashion. I was just pointing out that because the jump ins are automated and cheating, there really isn't any reason to prepare for something like a DP because it simply isn't possible that it could happen. (considering the jump only happens when a guaranteed punish will occur)
@MasterFaiyn Sorry, I think I’m getting what your point is, is it that he doesn’t have to confirm that the jump in will hit because he will only ever jump in successfully, meaning he has more time to prepare himself for the jump in punish?
This is a really good catch. The down and heavy punch input on the exact same frame for the link is the nail in the coffin for me
This kinda stuff is really insidious - once people become aware that it's possible they start to doubt the outcome of every match. This is how even really good players can fall into cheating, they assume that everyone else is doing the same thing and they're just "leveling the playing field".
This is what's happened to chess. The cheating is completely out of control in every game now. FPS, chess, and now FGC. Back to one player story games I guess.
@@lordchampion2724little do you know even the AI cheats
Yeah, there's no denying this person is cheating. Even though it's not common, it's really unfortunate to see. But great analysis Broski, hopefully Capcom can better detect this in the future.
I’ve played quite a few people that were obviously cheating lol . If they always react to your shxt no matter how much you switch it up …… perfectly every time ….. it’s a giveaway
@@yeabih5607I wouldn’t instantly say they’re cheating. Some people are that good. Or your mix wasn’t as great as you thought. I’d recommend checking replays to be sure before calling someone out. Just to be safe.
I'm not trying to be first, I just am. Thank you for your diligent investigation, detective Broski
Oh wow I paused at 8:11, his inputs are crazy! He went from down back for 2 frames, to up forward for 2 frames to down for 3 frames, without any neutral inputs (okay, that could be possible on a leverless, but that is insane).
He also has nearly frame perfect whiff punishes. I would wager he has an auto-whiff punisher too. He is holding back, and then when he detects an opponent has whiffed, he gets a neutral input + medium punch and right after that, continues holding back even though he's mid combo and not a charge character (maybe it's just habit?). I think his script is automatically neutralising his directional input to give him the medium punch which is why he continues holding back after it comes out.
Everyhit is a counter hit and the jump ins were crazy
The perfect parries at close range against Luke's fireball were insane too.
Spotted those perfect jumps in the fuudo match In the previous video. Great content, bruv keep it up
HBroskiguy hard at work with investigative journalism.
DCQ encountered him on ranked and believed he was cheating during his stream.
And the connection was also bad. Only 3 bars
@@sjfang2312 3 bar connection isn't ''bad'' in this game if its stable
Awesome video. Super interesting and great explanations from Broski
Also there was another cheater with russian nickname (actually their nicknames sound really weird for native ppl in RU region) and iirc even Phenom posted something about them on twitter. I'd say that Интернационал is another player who abuses cheats and probably uses vpn to connect to some other regions (there should be shitty ping then, but Fuudo played 3 ranked sets with that guy)
I'm starting to get worried this is more wide spread than we thought.
So I just played a game a few days ago against a Modern Luke, and I got completely waxed. I play Zangief. I was so pissed off, because this guy countered literally everything I did so I felt like I was just being a super scrub and telegraphing my moves like an idiot. Now??? I'm going to watch this replay and see.
it is, and not just in SF.
Yes. I just ran into a bunch of players that were 1 frame jumping my fireballs every single time. Even close range ex fireballs and all versions of denjin charge fireballs from all distances. I also ran into a Juri players that kept drive rushing non-stop. Even when i kept shut her down (after a few matches of getting my face beat in by it), she kept drive rushing anyway. When she went into burn out, they didn't know how to play the game at all. Going to turn off crossplay tonight (I'm on PS5) to see if still encounter these situations.
Edit: Another thing i noticed is that a lot of players are pushing buttons while they are being hit or blocking and the moment there is a gap, a normal comes out and they go into a huge combo. Looks sus because they are consistent with it.
Yup and it’s been happening since release . Shxt made stop playing for like 2 months . There’s just way people could ALWAYS PERFECTLY REACT TO SHXT . Like they never missed even tho you’d switch up patterns and all that . Instant reaction . Not even pros have displayed that level of guessing and reaction that consistently .
Drive Impact seems to be useless now as everyone just picking up the game has this amazing ability to counter better than the pros to the point it’s almost useless to use it.
I think Broski is right. I also think videos like this are going to make every silver player scream 'cheater' every time they get their throw teched
Unfortunately, your right. There are already people in this comment section saying that have encountered soo many cheaters, when in fact they probably just got stomped. That said, the cheating issue is growing and desperately needs addressing.
Yeah I think this ends up being a thing at every competitive game with primarely online formats at some point. There was this major controversy of that kind in CS during the pandemics, when the players from a team named "CHAOS" (an unknown organization up to that point) were seen doing some preety sketchy stuff, although not blatantly cheating. This brought up a lot of concern regarding the competitive integrity of the game at the time, since high level players could be getting those little assistances and we, as the community, would never know.
Another thing that seemed odd was how clean a lot of his inputs were in the input history. The other players had a lot of buttons being pressed during combos and sometimes while blocking. But the cheater had a lot more precise and clean inputs as if they were all perfectly calculated.
Even on hitbox hitting up diagonal that cleanly every time is not likely. You'd hit right or up a frame earlier at least sometimes. I'm sure this got covered in the actual stream but just so people know.
Broski has the Pro-Eye all you cheaters so piss off you'll get caught...!
This is the content I live for
"Gee, ya think!?" Me not even needing to watch this video.
Wonder how a game against a zoning Guile or JP/DJ with their fireball fakes would look like.
Also worth noting that if the fireball is inescapable with jump due to frame disadvantage, they seem to always parry it.
I wonder if they never jump outside of the auto-jump to avoid detection for when a jump is auto-input while already in the air.
Just remembering that cheater who got outed by consistently inputting counter DI even when in burnout.
I think they just don't manually jump because it became a habit from playing with this cheat. Why do a jump that's potentially punishable when the cheat can do a good jump instead? As they fell into this habit, they probably didn't even consider how suspicious it would be if they never jumped except when a fireball came out.
i have a feeling hes doing more than just fireball jump, every input for every special is perfect no mash ever, not even a double tap to confirm a button.
He definitely is.
His inputs are also pretty perfect mid combos, never mistiming buttons with the foward or back inputs for example, perfect quarter circles
Paying attention to how many frames each input is registered for is also a big indicator. He perfect parried the fireball at 8:24 and only had touched it for 1 frame. Sure that can happen sometimes but to be able to press and release an input for only 1 frame is pretty suspicious to me, espeically right before that perfectly timed jump.
Great content @broski 👌
I've never noticed until just now that the characters in the background keep moving even when you pause the replay.
Surprised you didnt comment on the up forward always being exactly 4 frames
Broski: "Dont' get greedy. Dial it down. You can win lots of $"
Cheaters: "OK"
I'm Japanese, and when I matched with this person, the total time for ranked matches was about 30 hours, and there were two legendary characters. Also, at that time, ACT2's legendary border was 2070 or higher.
whats strange about sf6 system is that the flag you choose when you first open the game determines what regions leaderboard you show up on. I'm living in the US but have the Romanian flag and I only show up on the europe leaderboard.
This also exists for non-fireball characters. I play Manon and I run into a lot of players who suspiciously neutral jump every single heavy button at a 100% rate
Also a Manon player. Same observation
Are you sure it's not just Manon neutral being predictable AF?
Manon’s neutral is pretty predictable. If you’re tossing those slow buttons too much you’re gonna get thrashed, cheating or not. Not saying you DEFINITELY didn’t encounter a cheater of course, but I still highly encourage giving people the benefit of the doubt until you have legitimate proof.
I clocked it the third perfect jump over Sand Blast. It's just subtle enough that most players won't be too suspicious until it's too late.
>perfectly predicts opponent's attacks
>Has Anya Forger, a mind reader, as banner
COINCIDENCE?!
Very well done spotting the cheats, any sort of competition online really needs to have a good anti cheat or either we will be heading the same way as Call of Duty.
Hitbox players CAN go from down-back to up-forward in one frame but because of SOCD cleaning sometimes you'll catch neutrals in there. Nobody is THAT perfect.
His whiff punishes are also _extremely_ good. They're just as fast as his jump-ins.
Thank you for covering this.
I LIKE THAT JUMP
The perfect walking spacing to is weird, every time the opponent walked back the bot walk at the same pace and kept the same distance
also worth mentioning is even before the perfect jump timing they perfectly follow the walk back to maintain jump punish spacing, I don't care how good someone is you're not doing that consistently
if that was variable and they incorporated long range jump in punishes it'd be pretty much indistinguishable from any other good player: like maybe 55-60% success rate or so
Nice vid subbed
Sad because this guy technically stole Brian F spot in legend.
I wonder if I've run into this in Diamond as well. I play Guile and there have been a few players that I swear I just can never throw a boom at unless it's full screen.
No matter how much I delay, do upside down kicks, sobats, even stand and walk back a few frames trying to bait the jump or just general buttons trying to change their focus as soon as I press forward and punch the jump comes and always in time to punish the notoriously fast recovery of sonic boom.
I literally asked myself out loud "how am I always wrong?" I'm deliberately trying to make this difficult to see coming, how is he reading it so well?
also his buttons are flawless not a single button mispress, dropped input... nothing, never mashes anything. also parrying sand blast on reaction most times which is just crazy.
dcq matched him once and immediately felt things were off. Like he micro walk back and st hp whiff punished JP's st mp 😂😂 if you looked even closer you can see every counter hit or whiff punish from him was like 2 frames reaction at most
This was a really fun video
It's crazy that you looked at the fudo matches and saw nothing suspicious. Kind of surprising how good they are at hiding them.
that input situation with the directions could mean hes on a keyboard. You'd be surprised
now people can train to jump when they see elbow bend
i love ur intro so much dude
On the point of determining patterns and the difficulty of detecting "subtle" cheaters, as in, cheats with a lower than 100%trigger probability:
I think it's important to apply a little science here.
Psychology studies on perception show us that human visual detection times are more or less hard capped at around 200ms / 12 frames. If you present visual stimuli faster than that, most of the time subjects will not even be able to determine what actually was displayed on the screen.
Naturally, there's more complication hidden here considering there's also a motor reaction involved and an argument can be made that subconscious perception might have a slightly lower perception threshold, but in any case, ANY tendency of a player to react faster than that, even if it only happens twice or thrice in a whole set, should be eyed with suspicion. There's even more parameters that could be checked, such as the variance in reaction time. Even for professionals who have trained manual processes for decades there's a variance band for reaction times, humans are not clockwork.
I feel like it should be rather easy for capcom to run a simple test on replay input data to look for these inhuman properties, no matter how rare they happen, and then highlight suspicious players for human/community review. At the very least this would force cheat designers to come up with weaker, more human like scripts.
TLDR: Please capcom, step up your anti cheat efforts, there's tools and methods you're not using.
That would be extremely problematic. One of the most common anti-fireball tactics is to feel out their timing and jump when you think they'll fireball instead of reacting to it. It'd flag virtually every match with fireball zoning.
capcom doesn't give a fuck, they've already sold their copies
@@mrosskne yeah but they still have to sell the 20 characters for 10 bucks a piece
I always said this. If a 1500mr player starts to cheat its really hard to catch him. You can turn on the cheat only in clutch moments/full resources. If a good (non top) player cheat is gonna win the tournament
Also I believe he maybe using a auto perfect parry cheat at 8:05 he holds back and hits parry for a single frame and gets the perfect parry on the fireball. at high level I've seen people OS their parry with a buffered forward jump to punish fireball recoveries or something to catch the recovery frames if they get the perfect parry. He does nothing but continues to hold back then auto jumps the follow up fireball and his inputs show him holding down to down back after the jump. clearly he was just trying to block but the cheat engine parried and jumped for him in a short burst of time.
I'm seeing this video a month later and based on what I am seeing here and what my replays showed I played against a cheater 3 days ago. They are becoming more bold
The fact the Up-forward motion after a fireball imput is always 4 frames.
Coming from a crouch/ block motion... im scared for the integrity of this game.
Jumping Sandblast 100% of the time (considering how fast it is.) is already suspicious. The frame data showing they were walking back and changing direction instantly is a deadgiveaway.
It will 100% be present in online games.
Every single jump forward happens after 3-5F of opponent's fireballs, with no inputs between their last direction and right into up-forward.
Every single whiff punish happens 5-8F after the opponent's button, again, with no inputs between their last direction / button, and it always went frame perfect into the whiff punish button, for example the 2MPs always input the down-back + MP on the same exact frame.
It's very obviously a cheater after you take this all into account.
I'm surprised this kind of cheating hasn't happened as much in other games, I think one other case was on Melee netplay with auto SDI cheats. Only most cheaters before were clear dunderheads, so thanks for pointing this out broski
i think melee is just absurdly hard to actually subtly cheat in in ways that boost your gameplay enough for cheaters to care about. analog inputs and the less structured nature of smash punish simply make cheating effictively cheating too complicated
Its crazy that capcom has no anti cheat but somehow makes qualifiers online.
I think the biggest giveaways were the perfect jumping over projectiles, the suspect inputs (they're WAY too clean) and lack of cardinals from some transitions in movement.
from having watched tons of videos of cheaters getting exposed in different communities like speedrunning. It is usually the best players cheating, just so they get that little bit more of an advantage. It also makes them a lot harder to catch if they actually have a good understanding of the game
There was this one guy called urifeet i played in bh hes the only one where i thought they cheated so far at least
I'd be shocked for there to be a cheater in BH.
There are Replay channels that show this guy as well. Watching those replays just casually I never really thought there was cheating involved. That is really a scary thought.
Help me understand the mindset of a cheater."I beat you even though I really I didn't.... that's why I'm better than you at this game because I'm not!"
Makes them feel strong. They don't care about improving, they just want to be on top.
gaming in 2024
I like this man's intro imma steal dat
Nice find.. iv def wondered when i see guys perfect parry everything
I have said from the get go of online competive game tournaments for money or whatever THEY MUST ALL BE PLAYED ON CONSOLE ONLY with a controller, no gamepad no other shit (providing the game is on console) because it is WAY WAY WAY too easy to hack on a PC evidence by this video IF he is hacking you can see he's on a PC, it is much much harder to hack a console without causing irreparable damage to it, voiding its warranty etc etc.
"someone repping the Russian flag, but lived in Asia somewhere"
American's geography skills never cease to amaze me LOL
Have you looked into the cheats you can download or buy? Do such things exist?
I think whenever he couldnt jump the cheat would make him perfect parry the fireballs aswell. Like in a block string. It shows 2 or 3 times in this video i believe. And he was whif punishing VERY well aswell, idk if thats also something to look at but he did also 3 or so times in this video and i dont remember any instance where enemy whiffed and he didnt punish perfectly so theres a lot going on here, but i guess the easiest to "spot" its the jumping cuz he does it frame 1 consistently.
That last jump in from the first game I noticed that within 3 frames he jumped forward but then holds down. as if he wanted to crouch but the cheat engine jumped for him so he held forward instead. 6:47
What if he turns the auto jump trigger rate to something like 70%, and turns the jump frame delay to a random number between 2 - 10, I can't imagine anyone could ever caught it.
At 12:07 he auto jumped but was still holding down. You can see the input when you paused it for observation
Its makes sense why he chose the auto jump on fireball start up, its a guaranteed punish, this is also a problem in many games too, good players using a few subtle cheats to get the edge afraid of losing
Yeah i have run into some people with very suspect "skills and tactics." Perfect throw techs every time, insane whiff punishes everytime, jumping out of every command grab, perfect parries every attempt....
I could be wrong here, but also everytime he jumps, his inputs immediately change to up forward, but also... It shifts back to what he was holding before that, during the air, usually down back, because they were defending. There is no reason to press down back immediately after the jump like that.