After seeing what they did to electoral candidates that were doves, I am all but convinced that revolution is the only way to make changes or extract even the most mild of concessions. The powerful will not give up ANYTHING without a fight.
I think people far too quickly go for one or the other. Fascists understood a long time ago that you need to be willing to both work within the system and be ready to institute the revolution. There was a Prussian statesman and strategist who I think said it best "War is a vital tool of the state", and while this applies to government, I think it applies to any organization, period. Violence is a vital tool, but it is not the only tool.
@@DemigodoftheSea don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for a purely violent revolution. We can use democracy to have our voices nominally heard, but the candidates that are nominated need to be revolutionary in order for te movement to succeed electorally. If Bernie had more balls to stand up to the establishment and take no corporate pos prisoners, he would have done much better and either win or got more substantial concessions that would've been impossible to kneecap like what happened in 2016 and 2020.
39:43 Excellent analogy JT regarding “crony” capitalism and the “good” capitalism with the stage 3 and stage 4 cancer. Never thought about it that way.
This is unironically the best formatted podcast for me, the comedy mixed with the good information makes it easier for my adhd brain to digest it without getting distracted 💕🤘
Reformists need to read "On Practice" by Mao, it gives a perfect explanation of the relationship between theory and practice and it states it in pretty simple direct terms that should be easy to understand imo
Every time I hear "You need to read this", I think people forget that a majority of people not only will not, but can not read all of these books that get thrown in their faces. If you want to be leaders and inspire others to follow you, you need to be able to take that theory and condense it into things you can communicate to the average person.
@@DemigodoftheSea yes I agree generally but I literally specifically brought this book up because it's only a few pages long (less than 20 pages) and is written in easily understandable terms. Like if you can't manage to read a few pages of text then idk what to tell you, I feel like a theoretical understanding of some kind is necessary to be a Marxist, otherwise you will only really have a vague understanding of it
@@Dell-ol6hb it's more the fact that most people won't get started down the path that way. In this comment section it's a little different, but it's a gut reaction I see from people a lot.
After listening all the way thru episode 1 (introduction), I was a bit saddened to think that I’d have to wait for a whole week to get my next deprogramming fix. Imagine my elation when I discovered the uploaded abundance!! :) Let the BINGE commence!
I'm just now listening to this episode, and I feel the need to nitpick: Sweden actually did have an empire, during the 17th and 18th centuries and was recognised as one of the great powers of the time.
I've mostly heard that Chavez was great and Maduro has been a bit of a traitor to the movement, but that's only been in passing and I genuinely have no idea how accurate it is.
@@DemigodoftheSea They're both essentially Social Democrats. Hakim has stated in the past that Venezuela has made absolutely no attempt to improve worker conditions, eliminate antagonisms or wage labor.
@@moontruther7519Yeah, except that’s completely untrue and shows a huge lack of understanding of Chávez and the PSUV. Chávez intended to achieve Socialism by communes and promoted and funded them for the eventual transition to a full-on Socialist society. A great book on the topic is: "Building the Commune: Radical Democracy in Venezuela" by George Maher. Also another solid source is an article by the website called Venezuelan Analysis titled: "Commune or Nothing! Venezuela’s Transition to Socialism"
it's been a year so I don't know what this refers to anymore. Was it the pandora papers? Because one of the main journalists behind the pandora papers got killed by a bomb somebody planted in her car.@@beccagrantham5978
I think that the goal of cooperatives is to escape and overcome market forces via a decentralized planned economy. I also think that cooperatives can be a good way to fund and build support for Minecraft revolution, to grab a foothold and launder emeralds and purchase or manufacture crossbows for doing Minecraft.
I started listening to you three during my long run this morning starting at episode one. THANK YOU! I am so happy to have found you! I'm a 59 year old white female who has been working on my own reprograming for years and now I have help. I hope many find you.
Many people have tough lives, or busy lives. Many like to spend their resting time doing things that relax them and help them wind down. For this reason, many people lack knowledge, especially regarding politics, and haven't gone through the same journey or grappled with the same thoughts and discussions as you guys. That's the reason why so many people hold on to thoughts and ideas that are easily torn apart or revealed to be non viable by you guys. I can be put in that bracket as well xD It's vital to be kind to people stuck in that situation as it's usually not their fault, and their participation is vital if there is to be success. They must be won over and to that end patience is vital! :)
I don’t know why I haven’t started this podcast before, but I guess I have a lot to catch up on. I’ve been loving this so far, all involved are knowledgeable yet amusing as well, it’s a pity I don’t have a commute to work to enjoy this.
Crony capitalism vs. the nicer capitalism reminds me of the distinction that theists try to make between micro evolution and macro evolution. The only real difference is time.
I grew up in NYC when many of the kids of Slavic, Ashkenazi and Italian descent still didn't refer to themselves at "White". That seemed to be more of a social category than some genetically immutable fact of their existence. Whereas we African-Americans were PLACED into the category of "Black" by interceding outside capitalist forces because any cultural, linguistic or religious differences that existed asking us in those ships were erased over the next 2½ centuries. A funny thing I became aware of, however, while reading 3 books about race and politics in a row about 4 years ago (The New Jim Crow, Dog Whistle Politics and Politics Lost), over time and in cycles, like when it becomes advantageous to capital, several of these groups either melt into "Whiteness" or can again be sieved out when the cultural zeitgeist demands someone besides gays, Blanks or Latinos to other. But who benefits? The neo-naズぃi screaming racial slurs at you on the street or capital? He's likely poor or working class and might be my ally if he can be down how he's been bullshitted into one of us inherently inferior. No, he doesn't benefit directly. A class of college-educated white collar workers who happen to work in industries that pay well benefit because any desire they have to take direct action is often tamped down by their material comforts, no matter what political label they wear, because the system is working out for them. At times this includes me too. I never finished college but I work in an industry where I've been flush at times and I could do more. But that comfort, man! So seductive! Anyway, when the anti-[ethnic group here] sentiment boils over to the point bald heads in their black flight jackets and cargo pants are praising a German leader who would've despised them as uncultured Yankee trash unworthy to say the word Arian much less claim it, it's already too late because neighborhoods have already drawn their invisible lines to keep those others out or engaged in a self-purge to different zip codes or cities altogether. School district budgets have already been decimated because politicians have already played up to their voters' worst instincts and redrawn district lines to municipally separate the "others" to match up with the defacto prejudice. Homes are bought and sold and demos flip; without any obvious advantage in just fucking helping people, crime increases so law enforcement budgets balloon and po-po get their cut. Then can then go buy homes and schools in the suburbs and exurbs and as we know, no matter their ethnicity, many cups tend to self-segregate into cop neighborhoods anyway. Since everything is a potential engine for capital, after multinationals grow impatient utilizing the prison population for mere slave labor, they can now invest in private prisons, making the prisoners themselves commodities, incentivizing the proliferation of crime itself. If race, class and crime can be manipulated inside a system to profit from anti-Blackness, anti-semitism (which goes in and out of fashion), anti-immigrant sentiments and the fallout from generational poverty, what can you do incentivize it to change within such a system?! First, you have to admit it's a bad system. Second, you have to create a system designed to create positive outcomes for as many citizens as possible, properly educates us and disincentivizes the greed, hate and fear that separate us. Then you have to advocate for that system, hold meetings, conferences and form political groups meant to evangelize its implementation. First locally, then little-by-little to prove it works, then out to the wider community. Then you replace capitalism with something that encourages better outcomes for education, innovation and health.
54:50 your discussions of voting reminded me of something: many autocratic leaders, including the famous example of the N@zi party, were elected into power. As a bonus example of "voting with your dollar", many American businesses did in fact support the Party before and even during the Second World War.
One nation Conservativism was part of the reason why the British government introduced some social policies. Basically an explicit recognition that treating the working people of Britain (in contrast to the other people of the world) to some social policies would make revolt much less likely and bring the people along, making them complicit in the Empire. Educating the poor is good for business because it means you can make them into managers, who have interest in perpetuating the system, rather than breaking it.
Unfortunately a big chunk of that is lip service or thinks socialism is Bernie. Once you start talking about nationalizing industry those numbers thin out A LOT. We've got more work to do to dismantle capitalism even rhetorically in the working class.
Love the cancer analogy. Stage 1, Protectionist Capitalism. Stage 2, Crony Capitalism / Monopoly formation. Stage 3, government and big business collusion to oppress wages/standard of living, to pad profits. Stage 4, Fascism. At which point should we begin surgery? Should we fully remove the mass or just enough to keep us from dying? Do we clean out the entire infection, or just the easily reachable main lumps?
Big fan of Second Thought, glad I am finally getting around to listening to these! 100% on your guys' page on pretty much everything, but to give my perspective on voting as a transwoman: Until we actually have that revolution, it'd be nice to not have some Republican start tossing LGBT folks into those camps we already have. Again, I even agree that voting is pretty much useless, but at least as harm reduction until we can organize more change it has its use.
I love you guys, but I think you asked some pretty softball questions that we get all the time and most people watching the podcast already kind of know how to answer. I've always been something on the edge of reformism and revolution, and the examples you gave of reformists failing, the examples of reformists always being subjected to violence and color revolutions did more to convince me than any of the questions you brought up. However there's still one major issue I have. Revolutions (not just Socialist revolutions, but revolutions period) in the modern days have often been plagued by issues of charismatic demagogues or those with more capital taking power of those revolutions and using them for their own ends, interested only in their own power. Or, we will see a nation that conducts a revolution, leftists take their power, and then that nation is immediately and subsequently attacked relentlessly by nations like America and have next to no ability to combat those threats. I just don't think revolution is feasible so long as you have a state like America that always has the power to swoop in and just say "No".
This is basically my thought as well. I just finished a series of lectures on interwar world history that was absolutely fascinating. I had no idea how many socialist movements and revolutions took place between WWI and WWI, and nearly all of them failed and returned to business as usual or fanned the flames of fascist movements that were ultimately more successful. I like the idea of socialism as an end goal, but forcing it on a population that is not interested or ready for it by violence is a recipe for disaster.
@@DemigodoftheSea Most of the armed socialist movements mentioned in the presentation were being pushed by a fairly small minority of people onto a larger population that was either neutral or opposed. Certainly there's room for more detailed analysis, but in most cases it does not appear that socialist revolution had broad support among the majority of people. That's not to say that a majority would not have benefited from such a revolution, or that they would not have supported it had they had had more favorable exposure to the ideology, but those were not the conditions of the time.
@@kolober2045 Demonstrably false, most of the armed socialist movements were led against dictators and puppet regimes installed by America. They were largely supported by the people. You say "It does not appear", but that's not backed up by anything other than "Well people murdered the Communists so clearly it wasn't popular", ignoring the fact that those color revolutions were backed by American dollars and put right-wing death squads on the streets. Not to mention, we have plenty of examples of left-wing leaders rising democratically, only to be deposed and replaced with military dictatorships, such as in Chile.
I guess the final question is how do you then motivate people to commit revolutionary violence? Understandably some people don't want to put themselves in that situation.
You wait till they do it on their own as they are pushed into a corner by capitalist crises and are forced to fight, then they can be properly directed by preexisting vanguard parties towards a more developed goal than they would otherwise conceive of.
The fallacy in thinking voting is a fair and just way to push for change ignores the blatant cheating, undermining, meddling, and sadistic intervening committed by capitalists. Never in the history of egalitarian democracy have capitalists ever ‘played by the rules’ if they won’t, how could we ever expect to do so ourselves?
As an American 🇺🇸 🦅 I personally think voting for harm reduction is still important, you can be pro revolution and still vote, especially locally. We still need to fight these anti trans bills and continue to push for abortion rights and gun control. Not saying y’all were advocating for not voting but I think it’s important to point out because Americans will take any excuse not to vote.
As an anarchist I think you should be able to guess which side I ly on hahaha. At least growing up in the era of incremintalism I quickly came to the conclusion that it doesnt work. And when it 'does' work you end up with something like Scandinavia which imo is not what we are striving for in the least. You can be satisfied with more incremental changes in your lifetime, thats fine, but still in order to get those changes it is unquestionably more effective to start from a more extreme position and negotiate to lesser conditions. Thats the 1st rule of negotiation/haggling for the best peice- start from a higher price so that when you innevitably comprimise you still end up with what you wanted in the first place.
On the subject of violence. What I think people forget is that violence is a misrepresented term anyway. Are riots violence? Is radical transformism violence? The U.S media would call it so. But hey, I'm strongly influenced by Malcolm X, as Hakim brought up, so yeah.
1:04:38 here is so important ,what a convenient time, I'm listening now while Palestinian people are being killed on dehumanize infront of the whole world without a flinch, putting words inside mouthes to not feel any sorry for them. they are being condemned in every unhuman way we can imagine just to trying to break the cycle of injustice and murder that has being done to them on a daily basis through 75+ years . very important thank you .
Yeah moonshine isn’t supposed to make you blind if it’s made correctly. Methanol and ethanol distill at different temps so you can separate them pretty easily
What always got me with the alcohol companies is with the commercials where they say the alcohol has been aged for like 50 or 75 years or whatever. Wouldn't like half of that stock that's been sold in the past 20 years have to have been made when it was illegal? Lol andi think jim bean is actually one of the ones I remember saying that.
6:31 yeah and we have people talking about compromising with these people! You can't compromise with these people! You will never win. If you play their game! We need to stop playing their game. We need to make a new game with new rules.
if we have to use violence to overthrow the system, what do we do about the state using violence against us? They have the army, navy, marines, and all the various law enforcement agencies. They'll use that power against us if we get violent.
They use it against non-violent protestors, anyway, remember the George Floyd protests? Agent provocateurs from among the cops, and cops breaking windows, both as means to try and incite protestors. Of the latter in particular, there is video footage.
@@sentientnatalie Yea, but the state used "non-lethal" violence during the George Floyd protests. As far as I know, no one was killed as a direct result of police violence. If a bunch of us got our guns and tried incite a revolution, I'm afraid the government will unleash the military on us. It'll be a one sided bloodbath.
@@etep878 "As far as I know, no one was killed as a direct result of police violence." That's not strictly true, loads get slaughtered by cops every day, mostly with no vocational or legal consequences, and remember who it is cops *really* work for. The reason they didn't openly slaughter protestors is that there'd be no chance of a security blackout, that'd make for terrible optics, but remember, they openly and specifically targeted journalists for attack. Make no mistake, those thugs would love nothing more than do the Holocaust 2.0, the cops are overwhelmingly numbered as far-right hate-mongers, I believe. "If a bunch of us got our guns and tried incite a revolution, I'm afraid the government will unleash the military on us. It'll be a one sided bloodbath." This is perfectly true, and was something the Russian revolutionaries were acutely aware of, and given how many factions opposed the Bolsheviks, said Bolsheviks should've been defeated, but they weren't. Something in which the people have everything to gain is worth dying for as much as it is worth living for. It will be tougher for revolutionaries today, no doubt.
@@sentientnatalie Yea, it's a damn shame our tax dollars fund the police departments and in turn, they are used against us to protect the oligarchy. I realize reform isn't the solution but revolution will make it a slaughter for the revolutionists. I wonder what the solution could be...
@@etep878The US military can't beat a bunch of poor farmers in the desert, what chance do you think they have against the most armed proletariat on earth?
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I already listened all episodes on Spotify, i shall commet for the algorithm!
Same
Is Spotify a Communist organization?
@@tuckerbugeater no, but it hosts podcasts. What logic you going by man?
Obligatory algorithm reply
For the algorithm!
They were right. Unfortunately. Nobody remembers the Pandora Papers
After seeing what they did to electoral candidates that were doves, I am all but convinced that revolution is the only way to make changes or extract even the most mild of concessions.
The powerful will not give up ANYTHING without a fight.
I think people far too quickly go for one or the other.
Fascists understood a long time ago that you need to be willing to both work within the system and be ready to institute the revolution. There was a Prussian statesman and strategist who I think said it best "War is a vital tool of the state", and while this applies to government, I think it applies to any organization, period. Violence is a vital tool, but it is not the only tool.
@@DemigodoftheSea don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for a purely violent revolution. We can use democracy to have our voices nominally heard, but the candidates that are nominated need to be revolutionary in order for te movement to succeed electorally.
If Bernie had more balls to stand up to the establishment and take no corporate pos prisoners, he would have done much better and either win or got more substantial concessions that would've been impossible to kneecap like what happened in 2016 and 2020.
@@samsadowitz1724 If Bernie was like that he would be dead.
rest in peace Allende :(
39:43 Excellent analogy JT regarding “crony” capitalism and the “good” capitalism with the stage 3 and stage 4 cancer. Never thought about it that way.
This is unironically the best formatted podcast for me, the comedy mixed with the good information makes it easier for my adhd brain to digest it without getting distracted 💕🤘
AGREED! This is one of the only podcasts I've found that I can actually listen to and enjoy without getting distracted. I love it! 😁❤️
"What does the billboard say; Come and play, come and play, forget about the movement"
Reformists need to read "On Practice" by Mao, it gives a perfect explanation of the relationship between theory and practice and it states it in pretty simple direct terms that should be easy to understand imo
Will do 👍🏼
Thank you!
Every time I hear "You need to read this", I think people forget that a majority of people not only will not, but can not read all of these books that get thrown in their faces. If you want to be leaders and inspire others to follow you, you need to be able to take that theory and condense it into things you can communicate to the average person.
@@DemigodoftheSea yes I agree generally but I literally specifically brought this book up because it's only a few pages long (less than 20 pages) and is written in easily understandable terms. Like if you can't manage to read a few pages of text then idk what to tell you, I feel like a theoretical understanding of some kind is necessary to be a Marxist, otherwise you will only really have a vague understanding of it
@@Dell-ol6hb it's more the fact that most people won't get started down the path that way.
In this comment section it's a little different, but it's a gut reaction I see from people a lot.
After listening all the way thru episode 1 (introduction), I was a bit saddened to think that I’d have to wait for a whole week to get my next deprogramming fix. Imagine my elation when I discovered the uploaded abundance!! :)
Let the BINGE commence!
I am also binging. I've heard so much about this podcast and I'm happy I'm finally getting to listen to it
Me
I'm just now listening to this episode, and I feel the need to nitpick: Sweden actually did have an empire, during the 17th and 18th centuries and was recognised as one of the great powers of the time.
oh man I am waiting for the Venezuelan Chavez and Maduro episode so hard, I have no idea of how foreign leftist think about our socialist movement
I've mostly heard that Chavez was great and Maduro has been a bit of a traitor to the movement, but that's only been in passing and I genuinely have no idea how accurate it is.
Better than nothing. Sometime I wonder did we have it easier than you guys when our revolution started.
@@DemigodoftheSea They're both essentially Social Democrats. Hakim has stated in the past that Venezuela has made absolutely no attempt to improve worker conditions, eliminate antagonisms or wage labor.
@@moontruther7519 Fair enough.
@@moontruther7519Yeah, except that’s completely untrue and shows a huge lack of understanding of Chávez and the PSUV. Chávez intended to achieve Socialism by communes and promoted and funded them for the eventual transition to a full-on Socialist society. A great book on the topic is: "Building the Commune: Radical Democracy in Venezuela" by George Maher. Also another solid source is an article by the website called Venezuelan Analysis titled: "Commune or Nothing! Venezuela’s Transition to Socialism"
"Meanwhile the journalist behind these leaks usually end up dead"
A quote that aged like fine whiskey.
Wait what happened?
it's been a year so I don't know what this refers to anymore. Was it the pandora papers? Because one of the main journalists behind the pandora papers got killed by a bomb somebody planted in her car.@@beccagrantham5978
Mashallah daddy The Deprogram has uploaded.
Revolution all the way!
I think that the goal of cooperatives is to escape and overcome market forces via a decentralized planned economy. I also think that cooperatives can be a good way to fund and build support for Minecraft revolution, to grab a foothold and launder emeralds and purchase or manufacture crossbows for doing Minecraft.
I started listening to you three during my long run this morning starting at episode one. THANK YOU! I am so happy to have found you! I'm a 59 year old white female who has been working on my own reprograming for years and now I have help. I hope many find you.
Many people have tough lives, or busy lives. Many like to spend their resting time doing things that relax them and help them wind down. For this reason, many people lack knowledge, especially regarding politics, and haven't gone through the same journey or grappled with the same thoughts and discussions as you guys. That's the reason why so many people hold on to thoughts and ideas that are easily torn apart or revealed to be non viable by you guys. I can be put in that bracket as well xD
It's vital to be kind to people stuck in that situation as it's usually not their fault, and their participation is vital if there is to be success. They must be won over and to that end patience is vital! :)
Even before I really got into lefty stuff I always knew and understood that you don't change the game by playing by its rules. Great stuff, gentlemen.
I don’t know why I haven’t started this podcast before, but I guess I have a lot to catch up on. I’ve been loving this so far, all involved are knowledgeable yet amusing as well, it’s a pity I don’t have a commute to work to enjoy this.
I can't wait for the next one! I'm looking forward to more homoerotic poetry, and tips on moonshining!
I enjoy this podcast, thanks guys
Crony capitalism vs. the nicer capitalism reminds me of the distinction that theists try to make between micro evolution and macro evolution. The only real difference is time.
"We can stab you with the big knife or the little knife" "Could you just not stab me?" "Sorry, this is the best system we can offer 😊"
I grew up in NYC when many of the kids of Slavic, Ashkenazi and Italian descent still didn't refer to themselves at "White". That seemed to be more of a social category than some genetically immutable fact of their existence. Whereas we African-Americans were PLACED into the category of "Black" by interceding outside capitalist forces because any cultural, linguistic or religious differences that existed asking us in those ships were erased over the next 2½ centuries. A funny thing I became aware of, however, while reading 3 books about race and politics in a row about 4 years ago (The New Jim Crow, Dog Whistle Politics and Politics Lost), over time and in cycles, like when it becomes advantageous to capital, several of these groups either melt into "Whiteness" or can again be sieved out when the cultural zeitgeist demands someone besides gays, Blanks or Latinos to other. But who benefits? The neo-naズぃi screaming racial slurs at you on the street or capital? He's likely poor or working class and might be my ally if he can be down how he's been bullshitted into one of us inherently inferior. No, he doesn't benefit directly. A class of college-educated white collar workers who happen to work in industries that pay well benefit because any desire they have to take direct action is often tamped down by their material comforts, no matter what political label they wear, because the system is working out for them. At times this includes me too. I never finished college but I work in an industry where I've been flush at times and I could do more. But that comfort, man! So seductive! Anyway, when the anti-[ethnic group here] sentiment boils over to the point bald heads in their black flight jackets and cargo pants are praising a German leader who would've despised them as uncultured Yankee trash unworthy to say the word Arian much less claim it, it's already too late because neighborhoods have already drawn their invisible lines to keep those others out or engaged in a self-purge to different zip codes or cities altogether. School district budgets have already been decimated because politicians have already played up to their voters' worst instincts and redrawn district lines to municipally separate the "others" to match up with the defacto prejudice. Homes are bought and sold and demos flip; without any obvious advantage in just fucking helping people, crime increases so law enforcement budgets balloon and po-po get their cut. Then can then go buy homes and schools in the suburbs and exurbs and as we know, no matter their ethnicity, many cups tend to self-segregate into cop neighborhoods anyway. Since everything is a potential engine for capital, after multinationals grow impatient utilizing the prison population for mere slave labor, they can now invest in private prisons, making the prisoners themselves commodities, incentivizing the proliferation of crime itself. If race, class and crime can be manipulated inside a system to profit from anti-Blackness, anti-semitism (which goes in and out of fashion), anti-immigrant sentiments and the fallout from generational poverty, what can you do incentivize it to change within such a system?! First, you have to admit it's a bad system. Second, you have to create a system designed to create positive outcomes for as many citizens as possible, properly educates us and disincentivizes the greed, hate and fear that separate us. Then you have to advocate for that system, hold meetings, conferences and form political groups meant to evangelize its implementation. First locally, then little-by-little to prove it works, then out to the wider community. Then you replace capitalism with something that encourages better outcomes for education, innovation and health.
Fun stat: the US IRS has been the same size since the 70's
This podcast is phenomenal
I learned about Stirner through studying Neitzsche and Proudhon. Lol
Something something spook
For the algorithm!
54:50 your discussions of voting reminded me of something: many autocratic leaders, including the famous example of the N@zi party, were elected into power.
As a bonus example of "voting with your dollar", many American businesses did in fact support the Party before and even during the Second World War.
I'm just way too addicted to this series
One nation Conservativism was part of the reason why the British government introduced some social policies. Basically an explicit recognition that treating the working people of Britain (in contrast to the other people of the world) to some social policies would make revolt much less likely and bring the people along, making them complicit in the Empire. Educating the poor is good for business because it means you can make them into managers, who have interest in perpetuating the system, rather than breaking it.
Pls make one about Trotskyism, Leninism and Luxemburgism -- differences, opinions, criticisms etc.
Amazing podcast as always, glad to make part of such a community, power to the people!
Omg Yugopnik did sound like a lunatic 😂❤
does anyone else have immense hope from finding out that 70% of the new generations are wanting socialism
Unfortunately a big chunk of that is lip service or thinks socialism is Bernie. Once you start talking about nationalizing industry those numbers thin out A LOT. We've got more work to do to dismantle capitalism even rhetorically in the working class.
The next door neighbor gives me weed, but a random grandpa down the street giving away tasty homemade booze? 😋
I needed this podcast more than food or air.
I want my unicorn to be aqua blue.
Love the conversations and attitudes you all carry. Keep it up 👍🏼
I love listening to the podcast I’m sooo glad you amazing people decided to put it on TH-cam!
Thanks for all of your work!
I love this, thankyou for opening my eyes.
Great episode!
Loved this whole conversation too :)
Yall are doing a great thing
Let's go algorithm
Gold! Great job fellas.
The best way to decentralize power, is to give it to everyone, direct democracy.
such a good show
This actually convinced me of reform not being possible. Thanks? Maybe?
Great podcast!
I love these guys
How come yugupnik doesnt smoke his cigar?
It's not about the tobacco, it's about sending a message
The real question is: How is Hakim able to speak normally and clearly while sipping a drink at the same time without pause? 😁😄
He just likes the way it smells.
Love the cancer analogy.
Stage 1, Protectionist Capitalism.
Stage 2, Crony Capitalism / Monopoly formation.
Stage 3, government and big business collusion to oppress wages/standard of living, to pad profits.
Stage 4, Fascism.
At which point should we begin surgery? Should we fully remove the mass or just enough to keep us from dying? Do we clean out the entire infection, or just the easily reachable main lumps?
I went to check the description for plans how to make homemade alcohol still, but there was none!
I really like your background btw, as well as the content
That intro. Lmao
Big fan of Second Thought, glad I am finally getting around to listening to these! 100% on your guys' page on pretty much everything, but to give my perspective on voting as a transwoman:
Until we actually have that revolution, it'd be nice to not have some Republican start tossing LGBT folks into those camps we already have. Again, I even agree that voting is pretty much useless, but at least as harm reduction until we can organize more change it has its use.
There is already a party that has been involved in the mass incarceration of the LGBT community and it's not the Republican Party
If you voted for Kamala Harris, you have no room to be discussing harm reduction re: trans people
BASED
Love yall
Wake up joe biden. Wake up
i'm re-listening to all the earlier episodes and this has to be one of the funniest parts of this whole podcast lmao. i love yugopnik
Great dialogue
I love you guys, but I think you asked some pretty softball questions that we get all the time and most people watching the podcast already kind of know how to answer.
I've always been something on the edge of reformism and revolution, and the examples you gave of reformists failing, the examples of reformists always being subjected to violence and color revolutions did more to convince me than any of the questions you brought up. However there's still one major issue I have.
Revolutions (not just Socialist revolutions, but revolutions period) in the modern days have often been plagued by issues of charismatic demagogues or those with more capital taking power of those revolutions and using them for their own ends, interested only in their own power. Or, we will see a nation that conducts a revolution, leftists take their power, and then that nation is immediately and subsequently attacked relentlessly by nations like America and have next to no ability to combat those threats. I just don't think revolution is feasible so long as you have a state like America that always has the power to swoop in and just say "No".
This is basically my thought as well. I just finished a series of lectures on interwar world history that was absolutely fascinating. I had no idea how many socialist movements and revolutions took place between WWI and WWI, and nearly all of them failed and returned to business as usual or fanned the flames of fascist movements that were ultimately more successful. I like the idea of socialism as an end goal, but forcing it on a population that is not interested or ready for it by violence is a recipe for disaster.
@@kolober2045 I think it's a little more complicated than "They tried to force it on people"
@@DemigodoftheSea Most of the armed socialist movements mentioned in the presentation were being pushed by a fairly small minority of people onto a larger population that was either neutral or opposed. Certainly there's room for more detailed analysis, but in most cases it does not appear that socialist revolution had broad support among the majority of people. That's not to say that a majority would not have benefited from such a revolution, or that they would not have supported it had they had had more favorable exposure to the ideology, but those were not the conditions of the time.
@@kolober2045 Demonstrably false, most of the armed socialist movements were led against dictators and puppet regimes installed by America. They were largely supported by the people. You say "It does not appear", but that's not backed up by anything other than "Well people murdered the Communists so clearly it wasn't popular", ignoring the fact that those color revolutions were backed by American dollars and put right-wing death squads on the streets.
Not to mention, we have plenty of examples of left-wing leaders rising democratically, only to be deposed and replaced with military dictatorships, such as in Chile.
I guess the final question is how do you then motivate people to commit revolutionary violence? Understandably some people don't want to put themselves in that situation.
You wait till they do it on their own as they are pushed into a corner by capitalist crises and are forced to fight, then they can be properly directed by preexisting vanguard parties towards a more developed goal than they would otherwise conceive of.
If people don't believe in self defense they're poor revolutionaries to begin with
VOTE 👏 HARDER 👏
The fallacy in thinking voting is a fair and just way to push for change ignores the blatant cheating, undermining, meddling, and sadistic intervening committed by capitalists. Never in the history of egalitarian democracy have capitalists ever ‘played by the rules’ if they won’t, how could we ever expect to do so ourselves?
As an American 🇺🇸 🦅 I personally think voting for harm reduction is still important, you can be pro revolution and still vote, especially locally. We still need to fight these anti trans bills and continue to push for abortion rights and gun control. Not saying y’all were advocating for not voting but I think it’s important to point out because Americans will take any excuse not to vote.
Push for gun control? Are u dumb?
Where's the links in the description about homemade alcohol yugopnik?
What is your intro and outro song? It’s so catchy I must add it too my playlist
❤️
Less goooo
Here for the algorithm
As an anarchist I think you should be able to guess which side I ly on hahaha. At least growing up in the era of incremintalism I quickly came to the conclusion that it doesnt work. And when it 'does' work you end up with something like Scandinavia which imo is not what we are striving for in the least. You can be satisfied with more incremental changes in your lifetime, thats fine, but still in order to get those changes it is unquestionably more effective to start from a more extreme position and negotiate to lesser conditions. Thats the 1st rule of negotiation/haggling for the best peice- start from a higher price so that when you innevitably comprimise you still end up with what you wanted in the first place.
53:09
Shots fired indeed 😆🤣😆🤣
On the subject of violence. What I think people forget is that violence is a misrepresented term anyway. Are riots violence? Is radical transformism violence? The U.S media would call it so. But hey, I'm strongly influenced by Malcolm X, as Hakim brought up, so yeah.
1:04:38 here is so important ,what a convenient time, I'm listening now while Palestinian people are being killed on dehumanize infront of the whole world without a flinch, putting words inside mouthes to not feel any sorry for them. they are being condemned in every unhuman way we can imagine just to trying to break the cycle of injustice and murder that has being done to them on a daily basis through 75+ years . very important thank you .
Solidarité
Actually max stirner is a notable part of the history of philosophy and ethics. Thats where i first learned about him atleast.
💕
✊🏻
What's the song named at 2.22?
I want co-ops to be the system of organizing labor after socialism is instated is that fine?
markin ma spot - 1:04:00
cool
Yeah moonshine isn’t supposed to make you blind if it’s made correctly. Methanol and ethanol distill at different temps so you can separate them pretty easily
What always got me with the alcohol companies is with the commercials where they say the alcohol has been aged for like 50 or 75 years or whatever. Wouldn't like half of that stock that's been sold in the past 20 years have to have been made when it was illegal? Lol andi think jim bean is actually one of the ones I remember saying that.
2:26
Something something algorithm
haha cute dog
49:00
21:38
Noice
6:31 yeah and we have people talking about compromising with these people! You can't compromise with these people! You will never win. If you play their game! We need to stop playing their game. We need to make a new game with new rules.
Omg is hakiem a communist! 😱😱😱
Every one on this show is a communist.
A gommunist?
Adding "Joe Biden & the N-Word" to my reading list
if we have to use violence to overthrow the system, what do we do about the state using violence against us? They have the army, navy, marines, and all the various law enforcement agencies. They'll use that power against us if we get violent.
They use it against non-violent protestors, anyway, remember the George Floyd protests? Agent provocateurs from among the cops, and cops breaking windows, both as means to try and incite protestors. Of the latter in particular, there is video footage.
@@sentientnatalie Yea, but the state used "non-lethal" violence during the George Floyd protests. As far as I know, no one was killed as a direct result of police violence. If a bunch of us got our guns and tried incite a revolution, I'm afraid the government will unleash the military on us. It'll be a one sided bloodbath.
@@etep878 "As far as I know, no one was killed as a direct result of police violence." That's not strictly true, loads get slaughtered by cops every day, mostly with no vocational or legal consequences, and remember who it is cops *really* work for. The reason they didn't openly slaughter protestors is that there'd be no chance of a security blackout, that'd make for terrible optics, but remember, they openly and specifically targeted journalists for attack. Make no mistake, those thugs would love nothing more than do the Holocaust 2.0, the cops are overwhelmingly numbered as far-right hate-mongers, I believe.
"If a bunch of us got our guns and tried incite a revolution, I'm afraid the government will unleash the military on us. It'll be a one sided bloodbath." This is perfectly true, and was something the Russian revolutionaries were acutely aware of, and given how many factions opposed the Bolsheviks, said Bolsheviks should've been defeated, but they weren't. Something in which the people have everything to gain is worth dying for as much as it is worth living for. It will be tougher for revolutionaries today, no doubt.
@@sentientnatalie
Yea, it's a damn shame our tax dollars fund the police departments and in turn, they are used against us to protect the oligarchy.
I realize reform isn't the solution but revolution will make it a slaughter for the revolutionists. I wonder what the solution could be...
@@etep878The US military can't beat a bunch of poor farmers in the desert, what chance do you think they have against the most armed proletariat on earth?
mooooo
I make alcohlic kvass lol
The age thing is getting old
Hoo hoo ha ha
24: Nordic countries imperialism
Reforlution