Why Agriculture Can Never Be Sustainable, and a Permacultural Solution present by Toby Hemenway
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ค. 2016
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Ten thousand years of agriculture has devastated every ecosystem it has come in contact with. Horticultural societies point toward a solution, and permaculture can help us design a way to overcome agriculture’s deficiencies, preserve many of the best features of our culture, and create a horticultural society that has a good chance of proving sustainable. This lecture shows how we got into this mess, and offers a route out of it.
Presented by Toby Hemenway at PV1 in March 2014. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
What a loss to permaculture, and to humanity. RIP Toby Hemenway
Thank You Toby. Even though you are not with us you will always be with us.
I love watching the evolution of Toby's presentations over the years. He got deeper & deeper into the origins of till heavy mono-crop agriculture as time went by. I think he was always observing, interacting, learning, adjusting. Such gratitude that he shared so much with us while he was alive. Gaia's garden was my first permaculture book.
why dont camera men figure out that during a presentation which includes slides, they need to get both the slides and the speaker in the frame? or use a mixer to get both alongside each other in editing?
Just happy it was posted at all.
Brilliant!
There's still hope for my kids yet.....let's change!
Miss Toby so much... He had an innate talent for making these huge leaps in understanding seem so effortless. Thank you for sharing him with us 🙏🏽
I really like this guy. Great presentation.
There should be small scale farms in between suburb groups that provide for those suburbs. This would have multiple benefits for everyone. More jobs, fresh local grown and raised food, seasonal food and so on.
Small farms in agriculture in America got killed by the federal government. People act like kids don’t wanna farm today but I don’t see that at all. I see tons of kids wanting to farm hungry to farm hungry for a simpler, more sustainable and better quality of life. But thanks to crony capitalism and corruption, especially on the left the entire nanny state we have to protect you BS, small and regional farms have been killed in favor of mass commercial farming.
Even Joe Rogan, who professors to be a hippie drink the Kool-Aid, when it comes to we need big government, and we need regulations when it comes to farming to protect people. No, Joe. We do not. As a consumer, I can decide to buy food from a local farm without the government. And as Joel Salatin is fond of saying if it was really about safety, you wouldn’t be able to give the food away and buying food that way would be criminalized, but it’s not. It’s only criminalize for the person selling the food. It’s crony capitalism and big government by the left. Pure and simple!
Great presentation! Wish the screen was more in view so I could see the presentation also.
I understand. Sorry about that.
Is his slide deck available somewhere?
I wish working with people was as easy as he makes it sound. For instance, I guarantee if I put a community compost bin out, it would be full of garbage, vandalized or someone would put dog poop, milk or something else super stinky in it & someone would start yodeling about rats.... I'm just involved in a little community garden with like minded gardeners & there's still friction.
That is why we cannot have any organisation without supporting legal and social infrastructure. The present social and legal infrastructure and the dominant ideas favour agriculture rather than permaculture: www.mosdem.org
Those who say it cannot be done need to get out of the way and let the rest of us do it.
Important common sense and needs to be considered as part of the solution process.
Thank you Toby for this insight!
excellent presentation I learned so much and many questions have been answered; very comprehensive lecture Mr. Hemenway makes something so broad and complex very understandable and sensible. True teacher
Im all in with permaculture revolution and this touched on so many points to ponder about how we got where we are now, its quite a revelation. Be wild folks!
If we don't financially support a system we don't agree with, it will eventually die. Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't seem to be very worried or who flat out don't care enough to bother to make a difference. In all honesty, we are probably doomed, along with this beautiful planet. I'm trying with all my might to make a difference in my local community with my half perma, half mulched agriculture garden, some horticulture too. I don't fancy eating fruit and nuts all the time and i don't have the acreage, no offense. More and more people are coming over to take a look, having a taste, taking some food, talking some food. They're loving it, i'm loving it. I can talk all day and i grow surplusses of random potted herbs and veg to hand out, on purpose. Doesn't cost anything to motivate people to do something... maybe, i tried. Just a herb, just a cabbage, maybe the start of another madly passionate gardener, who knows. We are gardeners, we were born to do this and people will notice something cool when they see it. Too much preaching to the choir. It's the obvious people who will turn up for a workshop. It's the random unsuspecting passers by you want to capture. Do it, people will come and fall under it's spell. It naturally wants to flow that way.
Thanks, PermacultureVOICES for another great talk! Love this channel.
Peace and love to all the world.
Guns, Germs and Steel great book! Also “Indian Givers” deserves reading.
Enlightening!
Everywhere I look I'm reminded that I have nothing in common with 99.9% of people. Thanx for being the .01%!
Andrew Parry...I am from the 0.09% you left out lol...
Great presentation. The comparisons of earth spirits verses sky spirits is a good one. There is certainly a lot of gaia worship in permaculture. While I am neither judeo nor christian I do walk in the Scriptures as far as I understand. The idea of abundance verses scarcity and love/brotherhood verses egyptian slavery is very much grounded there. There is great abundance, health and prosperity in the ways of the Creator. While many permaculturists ascribe the bounty of the land, rain and sun to an impersonal "force" they are simply misdirecting. There is great abundance in the ways of the Creator which the judeo-christian religions are, in large part, not that familiar with. I actually feel most permaculturists are closer to the Creator than they realize while their religious counterparts are actually further away than they can admit.
I’m going back to horticulture. Though I do like the ethics of ‘Earth care, People care, Fair share’.
agriculture's roots in fear and the beginning of a police state & unnecessary laws, slavery... yuuuge!
amazing lecture....permaculture ftw!
Thank you so much for this. :)
Isn't it depressing how few have watched this?
We didn’t outstrip resources and had to create agriculture. The history is pretty clear. People started staying in one spot and because of agriculture the population started growing.
this is one of the best presentations ive ever seen.
it quite plainly and clearly outlines things that ive known for a long time but couldnt put to words.
for those of you who take this to heart, take a look on google earth at the midwest. the dust bowl you learned about in school never stopped. they just moved the farm
As always Toby gives a captivating talk pulling back the covers on the unsustainable agriculture system society currently uses but still gives us hope explaining how and why it doesn't have to stay like this.
Tools from the library would be cool
this is awesome :)
We miss you Toby
Before I started this, I was thinking about how I love to learn this type of information... but I was expecting the talk to be slow or boring... I was completely wrong. That was outstanding. Very inspiring... the www.cityrepair.org/ movement in Oregon you talked about made me cry a little lol...
what was said about agriculture disconnecting people from our food supply, and making us think that the "wild" is out there... and we're supposed to be in here... and that somehow we're supposed to be disconnected from mother nature for a reason... that was crazy.
That was one hellova speech.
Some of the notes I took in case they could help anyone: Agriculture is grounded in fear and scarcity. We were running out of the things that we were consuming, and we needed more, so we brought in agriculture, a system of continuous taking from the earth with out replenishing it... that system can only last for so long...
On top of that, agriculture brought in a hierarchy, and rules and laws. Who gets what, who gets punished if they disobey.
Permaculture is about grounding yourself in the abundance model, not the scarcity model. When you look at mother nature, it's full of abundance. You can take branches from a tree, and plant them in the ground in grow more trees.
America was built on doing it alone... people came here as individuals, and made it on their own...
That type of model isn't natural for us. We're built to make things happen together.
Why garden on your property, to make food for yourself.... when everyone could be a part of it, growing things throughout the neighborhood, and brining people together.
Permaculter Start with a plan. Observe what is available.
What land, resources, skills and technology to do we have?
Who’s going to help? Who will be friendly? Identify them, and create alliances.
The Craigslist community section is a free place to advertise... - Meetup.com would be a great place to create a group, or join groups to find like minded individuals - And colleges could be an excellent resource for young energetic people that know that something is wrong, and want to be a part of a better world.
What are the objections? "People will steal" - "what if _____?"
Figure out the objections, and overcome them.
Identify the people making policy. How can you make friends with them? Or with their friends? How do you create momentum?
Our task is to re-design civilization. The rest of the world is waiting on us to re-envision our relationship with them.
Permaculture is based on love and empowerment.
I'm off to look at the last site you just talked about now permacultureskillscenter.org
Thank you for that speech!
Your enthusiasm is great, but you need to know why permaculture is a movement to begin with. Permaculture is the enemy of the policy makers, because its the corporates that keep them in government. They are pedalling coal and nuke power, fixed on the growth model, and argue against climate change. There is more and more debate about making it widely available in Universities, who again, get funding from governments. Permaculture should remain a movement IMO. A positve action anyone can take, not influenced by any big brothers pulling the strings of puppets. Unfortunately, things like this will gain momentum once crisis rears its ugly head.
Are these slides available anywhere? I am especially interested in the last one. The “flower” chart that seems to define various domains of localism.
In everything I have found since starting to study permaculture and sustainability.
AGRICULTURE is killing the planet.
Farming done right is not Agriculture in my opinion.
Totally agree with the principle behind your statement! Have you seen any of Mark Shepard's videos? He also presented at Voices, on 'Restoration Agriculture'. Or Darren Doherty on 'Regenerative Agriculture'? Agriculture is the production of food or fiber from the land, often incorporating animals. The problem is industrial style agriculture- the kind of farming that destroys the natural relationship between plants, animals, and the soil.Mining, oil drilling, oil and chemical spills, burning fossil fuels in massive amounts, manufacturing of plastics and their disposal... these are also major factors killing the planet. Chemical contamination of the air and waters by chemicals used in industrial agriculture AND manufacturing AND chemical drugs - these are all affecting the function of ecosystems. Thankfully we can choose to support those who are raising food in ways that are far beyond sustainable- using livestock to restore and regenerate large land areas by restoring the relationship between animal, especially large herds or herbivores, and the land. Plants communities and animals evolved together and need each other to thrive.After all, Bill Mollison coined the term 'permaculture' to mean 'permanent agriculture', right?
do you have links to the two presentations you mentioned?
There is quite a difference in what Shepard believes and what Bill termed permaculture. Shepard wants to feed the masses, and Bill wants to feed our family and share excess with friends. All I got out of Shepards talk was how annoyed he was that he was not the leading voice in permaculture. He mocked Mollison and bitched about Lawton. The concept of agriculture in any form is the cause of our overpopulation. Less people dont need more food.
Oh good grief Frank. Agriculture in no way in no universe will ever KILL a planet. Agriculture is great during stable times, stable climates (and don't you dare think CO2...a non-issue). Statements like this really make us humans look ridiculous. Farming is agriculture period. How silly to differentiate between the two. Every single thing we do to grow plants for beauty for food is ARTIFICIAL. We have to know enough to know what plants need to grow our food. We are so lame yet so smart most of us could not grow a carrot to save our lives. Seriously. Careful with opinions.
stormy Well, aint u got some big pants, telling people what they 'dare' not think. I'll bet ur a peach to be around in real life, if u can be such an insufferable blowhard in a few sentences.
Wow i learned alot from the presentation. I have so much respect for Toby and the permaculture - culture at large. Thanks for sharing the video!
The wild only exists in the mind of humans
I am very happy as a farmer here in the mountain of Trentino Italy.
Yes! Gardening rather than farming......
Call it slavery, Toby. Call the Levitowns >> Plantations, please. :) let's say what is going on.
Minute 16:00 No mention of the herdsmen? The Mideast, the Horde lands of Eurasia. Missed a lot.
Agriculture is the tightening of ecological bonds with an ever restricting sphere of dependence. Species specific mass commensalism?
Now go out and build some soil and grow. Why settle for the tasteless produce in the stores today.
The Lakota were not defeated by the US Army .. they were able to completely destroy all US military installations following the first round of treaty violations, and could have continued to stomp the US Army into the dirt, except for one thing: The railroad. It was not the railroad's ability to deliver more troops from the East quickly, although that was a factor. In order for the railroad to cross the continent and remain functioning, the Bison had to be eliminated. Masses of bison, numbering in the hundreds of thousands and millions running over tracks and bridges don't leave much to repair .. so the railroad hired buffalo hunters. Without their food source the plains nations had no choice but to come in to the reservations.
Back East, where my indigenous ancestors came from, we were a horticultural civilization, pre contact. Between the Norsemen visiting in the 10th century, and the missionaries that followed the Spaniards, we were introduced to those agricultural diseases, for which we had no immunity: By the time the first English colonists arrived, *80% of the indigenous population had died* Our oral histories became degraded, and our knowledge of horticulture diminished, to the point that the annual crops that we used became more prominent, and we _devolved_ into hunting and foraging to supplement the annuals.
hortus = garden BotHort = plant garden
In what alternate universe does a forager gather a whole year's supply of food in a few weeks? I'm calling bull on that. He says it at 30:17. Malarkey.
Honest question: How do we know ten-thousand years of agriculture?
Great stuff in here. Some whiny, simplistic stuff too. One of his points at the end if to pick low hanging fruit in these progressive projects and actually be realistic. To title a presentation in an absolute that agriculture can never be sustainable is foolish. It can and must be a hell of a lot more sustainable than it is now, and small scale farms and homesteading are not always simply selfish individual pursuits nor was pioneer farming. Those people were mostly tough as nails individually and communally. The myth of the rugged individual can be a myth both ways.
RIP
The story of permaculture vs agriculture is throughout the entire bible. Starting in Genesis, the Garden of Eden is a permaculture design and the curse is agriculture to Revelation where people become slaves to the system...
Yes, I realized this first after I read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn
Rob G My thoughts too went to the Bible. How Joseph helped the Egyptians set up their grain storage. And when later on the Israelites left Egypt they were nomads with herds of sheep. In their promised land they did not have the large scale grain agriculture, but grapes and figs and honeybees ...
Rob G So is genocide, murder and incest.
Permerculture and "that book" have no relevence, Permerculture is for all the world and has no need for ANY religion.
Suas leis a'permaculture!
I wonder if he’s ever heard of a city state ? Or a village ? A town , a family ? If he thinks women were on their knees all day grinding grain .. he really doesn’t know what he’s talking about ., women had lots of children and men had more than 1 wife , and women came with a cost (she had a Father or a Protector) Ever heard of an ox ? A horse ? Those who didn’t have those luxuries were completely dependent on seasonal crops and foraging .. it was no big deal , they were prepared by their elders , nobody ran around God’s Green Earth by himself and lived a full life , thats called an exile , or in some rare cases they were hermits and nomadic but they still traveled in known paths .🎉
Why? Usura
Yes, we can tell that you are liberal and atheist. But at least we can all agree that Permaculture is the Society and Cultural way going forward
??
Turning shit into something wonderful. 🤣😄
A better, more accurate talk would be titled "Why Permaculture Can Never Be Profitable, and a Sustainable Agrcultural Solution."
+Raurke Goose Maybe you should look for the talk "Some fools think Permaculture was designed to make people money"
Agriculture fosters scarcity. Permaculture creates abundance.
Worship the gold.