The older I get, my old friends seem to have less and less in common with me. You get to the point where you wonder who the hell these people are anymore and why you even still hang out with them.
@@redwatch1100 this is an excellent point. I think most people over 30 can relate. We change through our life experiences, and others often don’t change in the same way (how could they?). This makes it even more relevant for people to find way and skills to make new friends as they change and their lives and goals no longer align with earlier friends. Very well put.
Well said, all very good points, I have stopped hanging out with people I have nothing in common with, as we age it's harder to make new friends and one of the reasons is everyone has such busy lives. Just keep going guys, if you wake up in the morning stick your elbows out and don't feel mahogany it's not going to be such a bad day,.
Not really, I'm 47 and I have found all my life that antisocial people tend to be held in high regard and always have tons of followers, even ones who've done prison time for rape, assault, stalking etc. Conscientious people do *not* have that automatic 'clout' and worship everywhere they go. Maybe Canadians are just degenerates, who knows.
I'll be honest, I never understood the need for friendship or even socialising. I do it because it is expected, but I prefer to be on my own, and I seem to have no interest in other people, which makes all my relationships extremely shallow. I prefer the company of my dogs. Relationships with women apart from their suffocating neediness often suck precicely because they crave to be social. I suffer through all that for mainly the sex. I don't remember a time I felt lonely, but I did see it in my dog, which is why I rescued another dog to keep her company.
@@Brakka86 Nothing wrong with natural introversion. Only problem is that in our culture, young women find it unacceptable so young guys have to tolerate image-based pecking-order crap just to attract a dumb female :)
I’m generally like that now. Mainly due to not enough time and my hobbies and family taking the remaining free time. My wife understands me enough that we live comfortably and I’m so grateful to have her but she suckers me into her social endeavors and I always feel like a pay a big price out of my mental energy. It’s hard for others to fully understand this.
People these days are so fucking transactional, you’re only kept around as long as you’re useful. If you lose the utility your “friendship” is valued at near zero.
Agreed I said this the other day , I always showed up did what I could to help friends . When I went through a hard time watched everyone of my friends leave at some point except 2 ( true mates ) people only want you around on their terms and what you offer for them . World sucks .
One of the books on my reading list is called: "Games that people play" by Eric Berne. It's about Transactional Analysis. Yeah, it's often transactions. Sadly a lot of people like to just take and rarely give back.
Yes, lately i've dropped out of my music band because they have said I'm sounding like sh!t and they forbid me to play, week before our first gig (even thou only two of fourteen set tracks were half baked). One of these guys I have thought of as a pretty close friend and he did nothing to sort things out (even taking in consideration that he was the leader), also they used me by taking some of my money to pay for few things (luckly not much) because all of them are living almost on debt.
I have a like 6 fantastic mates and the only reason i have these guys, is because these guys appreciate the talks, brutal honesty and friendship we share for eachother. Talk to your brothers guys, real deep talk. We need it.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless. And they used to work six days a week back then, but they still had the time for socializing.
Think of the ramification of that: If men mostly hang out with guys, and it tends to create tension with girls, what happens when we go from all male to 50/50 workplaceS? It means 100% to 50% of potential friendships reduction. Not many hang out with opposite gender and if they have a partner it will not be so popular. So that is a huge one. Same goes for women when they were home wives.
@@redwatch1100 What you say has a large amount to deal with it currently, but when I look at men I know the generation before me, they're the same, My father, uncles, grandfather, etc. They have friends from college and childhood, or the military, but no new friends after they were in their 20s. At least not on a meaningful level. I think this has been a problem for quite a while now. Social media has definitely made it more difficult though, its one of the reasons I lost my best friend of 20+ years.
As a 50+ Aussie male who grew up in the country, I can easily name 10+ guys I grew up with died by suicide in their teens & 20’s. Well before mental health was acknowledged. I truly hope my son’s generation follows a different path
Yep, definitely agree .. also Aussie and right on point. The “macho men do not cry drink your your beer and man up” culture did not help … fortunately times are changing … mental health really only is being talked about post Covid
Lived in Perth for 12 years, the way it is here is one big race to the top, by snitching and back stabbing rather than hard work. It means that people you work with are colleagues and not work-mates, it's very sad.
I made friends with an old homeless fella, who lived under the overpass near me, in Yokohama. About 12 years ago, when I first moved here and I passed him on the way to the station, he'd shout "Ringo Starr!" which made me chuckle. When family and friends were over from England, I'd made a point of stopping to say hello to him and saying "who do I look like?", and when he said "Ringo Starr, Beatles!" they'd be in stitches as well. So, from buying him a bottle of water on hot days, popping in the convenience store for him if he was hungry, buying him a pocket transistor radio and gloves for Christmas and stuff like that, I got to know him a bit better. I haven't seen him for a few months now, his mobility was becoming chronically bad, and I think he's been taken off the streets by the authorities. I always look around the underpass on the way to the station, but I sadly don't really expect he'll come back. Friendship developing has no chance unless the two potential friends are prepared to find a bit of time for each other though.
@avairal5936 I was gonna say, even in Los Angeles it was still hypothermia weather at night even as of 2 months ago. When it rains, people die of hypothermia, but people also die of it from the dew if they don't have a tent AND a sleeping bag. Anything below 50 degrees is hypothermia, but the 50s is also hypothermia weather, except it takes 3-6 hours to die of hypothermia versus 3 hour or less in the 40s
Homo economicus. Working 3 times as hard to afford 3 times less than our grandparents did due to the inflation of an unsustainable fiat currency, egged on by women who thinks everything they see on social media is attainable via you, the man who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, hasn't the time or energy for friends just for her to claim she's independent, doesn't appreciate his efforts anyway and could probably just go and do onlyfans without any shame whatsoever. Imagine how easy life would be if born female and beautiful
Agreed, and would add that I suspect it's not depression/mental health for men in most cases, but rather despair at facing an insurmountable problem eg. job loss, debt, divorce, child custody battles, genetics affecting relationship prospects... that leads to an untimely end.
Not exactly. 100 plus years ago food wasn't prevelant like is it today. You would work all day to grownor put food on the table. Many went to town once a month or if lucky once a week.
What I am not hearing here is the loss of 3rd spaces for community gatherings and socializing. Unless you invite someone to your place, which you probably have room mates, or a tiny space you have to go out and spend money every time you do anything. Corporations have found a way to exploit, profit, and own every aspect of our lives.
I was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s, retired now. From my perspective society seems much more competitive and status oriented than ever before. People are more judgmental, hot tempered and generally egotistical. The term “road rage” didn’t exist when was young. It’s fairly common now. I see all kinds of weird forms aggression on the road when driving. Generally, people seemed more friendly, humble, thoughtful and kind when I was young. It’s a more hostile world today. On the why end of things. As I said previously, I think it is the pursuit of status, wealth and material things. That combined with an immersion into on-line worlds of fantasy. Everyone one is involved with that and avoiding actual one-on-one interaction with people.
I just retired too. A few things were different back then. People were not so rude and selfish. Public idiocy was not tolerated well. If you “got in someone’s face” or treated another with the level of disrespect I see in society today, you would be eating knuckles and picking your teeth up off the ground for dessert. There are zero consequences for people’s behavior now.
@@FloofusTheCat Nah, he's right. I say this as a 23 yr old. Social Media has made everyone way more competitive and judgmental. For all human history, you were only in competition with the people in your community. If you had a 6 pack (just an example) you were considered special. Now that we have social media, the pool of competition went from the people in your community to literally everyone in the world. Now, women have to compete with edited photos of people who are already supermodels. They will see the supermodel's man take her out for a $50k dinner and then fly her to Dubai, then they get upset their man can't/isn't doing that for them. Men have to compete with supermodels too, and they have to compete with a billionaire's son who can fly their desired woman in from anywhere and take her anywhere to eat and can buy her anything she wants. The worst part is that average men and women will see these popular Instagram influencers and truly believe they DESERVE that level too (they don't), and they don't even account for the fact that these Instagram profiles are curated make the owner's life look 10x better than it actually is. Now we have men who will only settle for the supermodel (despite being a 6/10 on their best day), women will only settle for the billionaire. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but there are lot of NPC's in the world.
My experience in relationships has been that the woman I’m with expects to be the priority at every moment, and any time with attention on someone/something else is a detriment to the woman’s needs. It’s beyond codependency, it’s a built in expectation with women, and it’s isolated men for generations.
Those are controlling women. You are picking them like that, most of the time it's got something to do with an unhealthy relationship with your mother. There are tons of non-controlling women out there, you just need to figure out what *you* are doing wrong when you go after a woman. I have had friends in those relationships but was never in one myself - I can see those women from a mile away, because they *don't* act like my stable and mentally healthy mom or sister who I grew up around.
@@bbainter7880 well said, but also easier said than done. It took me 6 years (from 42 to 48) to understand and undo the damage caused by my cruel, abusive and narcissistic mother. She’s been a curse on my family and ruined every aspect of our lives. As children we were programmed to accept and normalize selfishness, cruelty and neglect…. And that’s what I looked for in women as an adult thinking it was normal and ok. I’m finally with a beautiful and loving woman and have zero contact with my mother.
I never got married. One by one as my friends all got married, they dropped off. Especially after having kids. I ran into trouble with several of their controlling wives that wouldn’t let them out of the house and they were too weak to stand up to them. I kept trying to maintain the friendship by getting together once a month. When that didn’t work, I tried quarterly, then every six months and finally once a year before I wrote them off. It pissed me off and also hurt. They were guys I used to hang out with several times a week. Finally I just politely said, “I know you are really busy with life. I would really like to maintain a friendship with you. The ball is in your court, give me a call some time, I’d love to get together again.” Never heard back from any of them.
You are apparently blind to the amount of time parents have if they work full time and their children are young. The wives are not controlling. The wives have every right to want their husbands to spend time with their kids and contribute to housework/yard work. It is time to grow up and realize that most of your friends are probably not getting even six hours of sleep a night if their kids are young. Think again about their priorities and you might understand why the men choose to back their wives if you have the attitude that those wives are "controlling". In addition, the men may have come to the decision that they have grown apart from you, a former friend. They moved on in life. You did not.
@@alexr6114 😅🤣😂 if you think “sacrificing” two or three hours once a year entirely planned well in advance on your own schedule is too much to ask there is something wrong.
@@alexr6114 i see the same in my life, my friends cant go anywhere but their wives come and go as they please, i was friends with a bunch since i was 12, we all grew up got married etc, now the wives are the friends and do stuff together and we don;t , we try but there is always a reason that they cant due to plans that pop up after our plans we make, its driven our friendships apart. I find when women control men its classed as under the thumb, when men do it, its toxic controlling behaviour , women make time for one and other, men don;t
@@alexr6114 I have seen many married couples and seen this similar excuse given. However, that seems to be the case for only men though. The women always have plenty of time to chat with THEIR friends and meet with their friends and have girls night out, etc. If a guy tries that, she will CLAIM she is ok with it but you can see from her facial expressions and her behavior after that she is clearly not. The guys just take the path of least resistance and just comply with whatever the woman wants. Honestly, I cannot blame them, it is just easier that way.
After being disappointed and disrespected by many former "friends" I'm okay by myself. I enjoy my own company. My family and my cats are enough for me.
I closed down my business to learn furniture making and i was stunned to see how everybody at my school was so likeminded despite being from diverse backgrounds and age groups. We have all rejected the values of modern civilization. I have made some great new friends and i am 43
I make sure to hug my 4-year-old son every day. I also don't have any friends. I want him to know I'll always be not just his father but his friend as well...
@@frankstallone3864i think it helps? Besides i know alot of men who dont get to see there kids grow up or not want to see there kids grow up so id take a friend for life from my dad.
Social life will never be the same If you grew up Gen x etc you experienced community , Fridays we would go down town , meet up at pizza places , cruise around in cars , go to parties , swim in the river , and finally we did match making for each other ❤
I dont have any friends because I witnessed multiple instances where people close to me flip a switch and turn into complete two-faced backstabbers. Multiple instances where I needed help and they turned me away, realizing people don't practice what they preach and morality is only present when it's convenient
My husband has no friends , what’s so sad is he is a nice guy . He has colleagues and acquaintances who are also nice guys . This is a tragedy / travesty .
I'm the same, no friends at all. I wake up, go to work, come home. I dread days off and annual leave because work is the only place I connect with people. If your husband is in the UK or even not, then I'd be more than happy to become friends with him
@@garyhalkon8749 im so sorry that’s awful for you . We live in Sydney Australia , so regretfully not in the UK . I will talk to him tonight about it when he gets home from work , but no promises Gary he may not as … I don’t know why , it seems to be a concrete wall he hits , when it comes to interaction . Which makes this all so very difficult . I really hate this for you guys , you are all really great guys . ( not just in intelligence and academics ) but you’re all witty ,funny and smart your thoughts and opinions are so important and relevant . What is happening in the world .
@@garyhalkon8749 hey 👋 im so sorry this is happening to you . I will tell my husband tonight after he gets home from work about you , you’re so cool ! But as you know it’s hard for him even if i reached out for him … there seems to be a real hard barrier that can’t be broken thru . All of you guys are so witty ,clever and so so funny . Sadly we are not in the UK but we live in Australia . Gary do you have a hobby ? I like art so ive joined 2 art groups on line . We zoom as a team as we’re all over the world . I know it’s not the same as in person but it’s a start in the right direction . Don’t be alone buddy you are too precious for that !!!!!
Don't feel bad. That's how I live too. I suspect once we get out of school it's our we spend our lives. It's funny, I was thinking earlier today about how people back in the tribe says probably felt a lot more connected..your surrounded by family, that all love each other, do their part to help out etc. not going to some random job and working for another tribe that doesn't give 2 shits about you besides are you working hard enough and bringing in enough money for his tribe. Humans are definitely not designed to operate as we are today. I don't think in the early days did we have drug issues, alcoholism, bankruptcy, divorces etc.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless.
The latter part of the conversation with regards to men taking their own lives is so important. I work at a crematorium in UK as a gardener (but also help work the chapel and the machines also) and you would be surprised at how many young men we receive. I see the families that pass through the chapel and the impact it has on them. As someone who has suffered with depression at times in my life, the one common theme is always the feeling of being useless or not of need. We as a planet have to halt this phenomenon. We’ve become more connected than ever through our phones and technology, yet we are now more separated as a result. I hope we can find a solution before more lives are cut short.
Yep … the value of human life has cheapened driven by corporate profits and political self interest… erosion of national values, globalization of manufacturing, social media etc 😢 I am in my 40s and feel very lucky to have had my teenage years in the 90s with real friends and those holiday adventures away from screens
What actually happens is your girlfriend freezes out your real friends & replaces them with the boyfriends of her friends. It’s like pod people. So, when the relationship ends you are on your own because you ignored your real friends. And you didn’t even know it happened.
Get active with other people, do stuff, with other people, and be in places with other people. People just want other people to do things with them. Simple.
Agreed, these days the best way to get out and socialize and eventually maybe make friends, is by volunteering somewhere. There are so many organizations to join, or some sports club or whatever, and then the "social quota" is met. This applies for those in the workforce and for those outside of it too.
This has been quite difficult. Finding “places” with other people, which do not require constant injection of money (like a bar, restaurant, etc) are nonexistent in many communities (like mine).
I did that. Actively. For years. To make new friends in a new city. Then i noticed if the activity stops for some reason people stop contacting each other. That means there was no real friendship in the first place. It was just situational. Dance classes, sports classes, hiking, etc all the same results. People have gone crazy.
It is not hard to find people. Finding real friends (aka best friends) is hard these days. People are very transactional. Friendship must benefit them. It is hard to find someone who really care for us in emotional level. But those are what we need. I treasure my 2 best friends. Anyone else is like a clothes, they can stay or go if they want since their friendship is not real.
Something I've noticed is how many women are increasingly controlling in marriage - like how many guys now feel that they have to ask permission to go do something outside the house besides work - and this is so common, it's normalized and people don't even question it. And it's often subtle, in that women say their husband can do whatever they want, but then they create a ton of problems and arguments if the guy tries to have any sort of life outside the family. Guys end up (often without realizing it's happening over time) going out less and less making it difficult to maintain friendships. Guys that are single tend to spend much more time with friends or doing their own stuff like hobbies or sports.
Yes and in my own experience isolate their partners due to their own psychological insecurities. The cure to that is to do exactly what you want and let the silent or what tactic comes your way slide off your back. Its funny how if you just maintain your own course the eventually respect you for it. If not then just get out. Life’s to short for coercive bullshit.
Many guys turn their sovereignty over to their spouse. “I gotta ask the old lady”. Most of it is that a lot of men can’t handle freedom. It is too heady an elixir.
Last best friend i had was when i was up to the age of 15. Im 43 now & have lots of acquaintances. I just dont let people get close enough anymore. Trust issue i guess. I only feel comfortable with my wife & kids & brother & close family
Same. So many “friends” that I have emotionally really invested in, sometimes prioritised them over my family turned out to be very very disappointing. So no more wasting time on this non sense. Prioritise your family.
Not enough time for friends. Men socialize for a greater purpose. In my eyes, religion doesn’t provide that as the church strayed away from how and why their religion was created. Men like me want to fight for something and we need other men along our side
I am a male of 68 years, this has been brought up recently by a very dear classmate at our 50th high school reunion. A subject I most definitely need to research more. Great content as always, will listen in on the entire interview. Thank you.
In my life experience as a 63 year old man, wives don’t like husbands to have friends. Wives in general don’t like husbands to have anything outside marriage.
Mmm I think you just met a wrongun and someone who was codependent. The signs are usually there, someone who has very little going on in their own lives, little to no friendships. The high level attention may be flattering in the beginning but it's not a healthy sign for long term. My partner has a great group of childhood friends,they meet up every week for chats and then plan trips and social gatherings for food etc. I need that time to myself, for myself and he gets to relate to his gender folk and allow his masculine side to pop out, when at home, he's a support and relaxed gent. we have good communication and balance and I find most of my friends are like that. They need the "me time" in a relationship to value the time spent together. Men can also be codependent and needy in a relationship if they do not maintain friendships and hobbies.
As a 50 year old guy, the only friendships I’m interested in as I get older are those where we do stuff together, e.g. cycling, watching our favourite football team, some business adventure, some major common interest. Having a high friends turnover is healthy and good.
I learned I am autistic in my early 40's. Eye contact and small talk are near impossible. It is difficult to make friends without doing something with a goal or shared interest (sports are the best.) Getting a friendship to where it is lasting is near impossible because I don't interact in the "standard" method. I basically end up with short term acquaintances and nothing more, generally only while I serve a purpose. I have a STEM PhD and it is easier for me to teach class to 30-50 people than it is to approach one person I know nothing about. I have almost a second degree black belt and I can basically interact with people at the dojang in terms of learning but socially is very difficult. Unless I know my place I am beyond shy and will just try to disappear.
I was also diagnosed autistic in my 40s and I completely understand. I don’t understand small talk, including idle banter, and I end up being the one person in the room no-one’s talking to. I’m also not a ‘smiler’ even though I’m almost never angry, and I think it makes people feel like I’m cold, but I can’t fake a smile.
@@thefuturist8864 Yea, I have flat affect (no smile / resting bastard face from the amount of bullying I faced for being awkward and not understanding, I looked like I was 26 when I was 14) as well. I get the "you're intimidating" even at work from other people just as qualified as I am. As soon as someone talks to me for a while they generally can't believe what they are hearing because the physical stereotype / picture they formed doesn't match what they are hearing. This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time.
Yup. Approaching a stranger goes something like - what do I say to them - Oh god I've got to say something to them - but what - anxiety builds - there's the weather (boring) - there's 'how are you' - the anxiety builds a bit more. I start to want to escape but then feel ashamed of that. I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety disorder but there is overlap with Autistic Spectrum. The problem with small talk is it's an unstructured conversation with few sign posts and little information to guide the discussion. It also depends a lot on how expressive you are, something which Autistics and Social Anxiety sufferers struggle with. I think it's also somewhat harder for men on average, women are much more expressive in their communication style which is why it's said that men often bond around an activity.
Most of what we consider “friends” are really just “acquaintances” Real friendship requires openness and truly being yourself with your friends which sadly is very difficult to do nowadays because most “friends” are in competition with each other instead of getting each other’s backs.
I am so thankful for my 2 guy friends, we share everything and have deep talks. Their friendship saved me many times. I don't know where I'd be without their support.
After the age of 45 - either All my friends have died- or have been completely consumed in family dynamics. The friends i do have are work related and although fine, the work experiences is so full of stress and endless work politics that any meaningful relationship outside of the work environment is not sustainable. Most men i know either become INVISIBLE OR FIND AN OUTLET IN NATURE- usually alone or possibly hiking or hunting groups, sporting activities,,even thst being said- it ends up being a dry or competitive head game. I have now evolved past having male friends, fins solace in educating myself in thousands of divergent interests and travel. Sadly- many men have zero levels of freedom. So they become cemented into a garbage apathy and loneliness derangement. Thats the facts of the first 25 years ofnthe 21st century. 💀
This sucks. I’m 56 and have experienced the same thing. Most of my former male friends are just empty dried husks of who they used to be. IDK if they are beaten down by spousal pressure or what. If you can’t find ANY time to carve out a few hours over the next six months on your schedule, to maintain a friendship, I guess we’re really not friends anymore. I have found out how to be 100% self reliant and do everything alone. Not by choice, but by necessity.
I'm Australian, 56 years old and the Mens Shed is probably the best thing EVER for men, especially as it focuses on middle aged + men, sometimes divorced, widowed etc. Loneliness is the biggest Killer in our modern society. I could talk for hours on this subject, but this video, even though the tip of the Ice Berg is straight to the point, and I am grateful. Love Your Work!
An acquaintance is someone you have a beer with at the bar. A friend is the one that rings you up to invite you to the bar. One is happy to see you, the other makes the effort to hang out with you
My story; was a social butterfly and had a best friend. Was ghosted by best friend after 2 years of daily meeting & all social network all cared about just dating not me. As a man why invest in male friendships? At least women give you something before ghosting. Get a dog guys
I moved to a new place a few years ago to be near my dad who was ill. He’s better now but I can’t afford to leave. I was diagnosed autistic in 2020 and I find making friends very difficult; when I was younger it wasn’t so hard because I grew up in a small village and went to the village school where everyone knew everyone, but as I’ve got older it’s got harder and harder. I started a band in my 20s and gained a lot of friends in the local music scene, but when the band fell apart the friends disappeared. My gf is also autistic and isn’t very supportive, so I started seeing a therapist but her prices got too high and I can’t afford it anymore. I work at a university but there’s no opportunity for socialising and so I’ll often go for days without talking to anyone. The loneliness is destroying me. I have developed a painkiller addiction and can only sleep properly when I take powerful sleeping tablets. I don’t see anything changing in the future. When I was in my teens I had friends all around me and all I ever wanted was for them to be around for the whole of my life.
I believe that people in big cities are lonelier. It's full of people that are trying to chase their own dream and you can easily get lost in the mass. It's full of selfishness and superficial relationships. People don't care about each other. You can live in a apartment building for twenty years without knowing who your upstairs neighbour is. Hell, they can even die in there and you will first notice after three months when the hallway starts to smell. Community is key if you want to produce a healthy human being. And big cities are lacking it.
Then on the other hand there is also the Stepford routine of toxic cliques you can find everywhere, especially in rural idylls, offices and backwaters. The basic problem we have is competition I would agree.
@@Braaaaaaa Not much to say. We live in a culture, especially in the US/Uk, which fosters competition. We are little consumer/producer units competing for status and resources and that doesn't really change when you move out of the city - something people normally are only able to do when they've gathered sufficient resources - but rather you are made more painfully aware of your status within the group. Isolation is to some extent a function of inequality - there are plenty of social cliques living in the big city too, not everybody is isolated. There is a big difference between 'community' and cliquishness and the fundamental basis of our society doesn't change, which is competition. It can be even worse in small insular communities for those excluded from the group . In the big city one may be atomised, but there is a liberty within that. Competition leads to distrust , which leads to isolation. Society places men under more intense pressure to compete with one another to join 'the club' and to meet conventional expectations of success, for women beyond childbirth it tends to be more optional. Women don't compete with one another to the same degree for career success and tend to form stronger social collectives, whether they're in the top club or not. OK, that was actually saying quite a bit , apologies :)
I live in a pretty small town and its lonely for a different reason. Just not a lot of people around, and in the modern age people (even rural people) just kind of chill inside or on their phone. When theyre not working of course. But at least its quiet and peaceful. Feeling lonely in a big city is different, for the reasons you described. Youre surrounded by people- who dont give a fuck about anything but themselves.
@@billyliar1614 Do you believe that competition is a social construct or a natural part of us? There's probably a better model out there than what we have right now. We are on the other probably living in the richest era ever. I believe that competition is a natural part of us and it can make you become a better version of yourself. It encourages growth and I believe that we as humans need that in life. Maybe not this hyperinflated growth that our western society is pushing, but a feeling of betterment. Unfortunately a lot of people get left behind, because they deny to participate in the rat race. And isolation usually kicks in shortly after, which is not a healthy way to live your life. I believe that buying into the rat race is a lot healthier, than the isolation route. You're at least not gonna suffer alone. I believe that a lot of life is suffering, but chosing to suffer with others is a better option if you ask me. Sorry for the long reply 😅
The "face to face" vs "shoulder to shoulder" topic was interesting. What if it's a subconscious side effect from centuries of warfare. If we're "face to face" we're enemies, but if we're "shoulder to shoulder" we're allies. Just an idea.
3 key reasons i hypothesize 1 men are naturally a little bit more of a loner than women to our own detriment 2 men are fear of coming off as weak an needy to other men admitting the longing for plutonic legitimate male comradery is often seen as weakness especially if your no longer a boy / teenager 3 men fear incurring homosexual misunderstanding, or any such awkwardness as overwhelmingly most friendless men are heterosexual or making friends with the wrong crowd (criminal. religious extremist, politically radical, frienemies/ opportunistic weirdos/sick-perverts or jus plain immature men an so on an so fourth.)
yeah a lot of Men don't empathize with each other and have only learned to value humor in friendships rather then integrity and loyalty. This isn't necessarily their fault, its the fault of their family, their fathers and mothers. It goes back man. Not everyone has the capacity to understand the importance, when they live in a world that praises materalistic gain over deep principles and community that tie us together. We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies. If it was a society we would be more closer, not as distant as we are now. Technology has evolved to further distract and divide us, to the benefit of the elite few.
Just watched the full episode. Great and interesting conversation, covers a lot of ground. I have 4 brothers and 4 nephews and all of them could relate to a lot of the issues raised. Men need to Keep connecting, open up to eachother more and talk and support eachother.
Friendships die because a lot of men don't make any effort to actually maintain friendships. They put everything and anything before their friendships. I've had many friends over the years that I lost contact with because they wouldn't put any effort towards the friendship. Once I stopped calling or texting them, I never heard from them again.
This is very relatable to me. I am 49 years old, have gone through two failed marriages, and have two children, one of whom has been estranged from me. My daughter and I have a wonderful relationship. I am content being the best stay-at-home, full-time dad I can be, despite my personal struggles. I find socializing challenging due to my neurodivergence. I miss having conversations with people who understand me and do not perceive me as an antisocial, unproductive, or lazy individual. In essence, I am the complete opposite of how they view themselves. Enjoying solitude is not unusual; it is a movement that promotes mental well-being.
They dont answer the phone. Ever. People are addicted to texting. Even if they are dying from loneliness. Only my parents generation understand what is a real friendship and are able to maintain life long friendships. They talk on the phone. Creepy loners dont talk on the phone.
@@delaslight You have a point that I just do not understand. Many people that I know hate to talk on the phone. I do not get it. Traffic is terrible where I live in the Washington DC metro area. I do not understand why so many people are adverse to picking up the phone to keep in touch with friends.
I thought after making some new friends would help me get out of the loneliness and depression, but still I feel that void inside. Even when surrounded by people that care about me, I still feel isolated.
Same but I think its because we lack purpose. I coached kids track and field once and was the happiest I've ever been while watching the kids realize they can do difficult things, then when the season ended, back to the void.
Its true. Jesus Christ is the creator and I felt the same void before I was in a restored relationship with him. Through faith in His blood he shed on the cross for humanity
This rings a bell with me. I had one friend from high School. Our wives became friends and they would schedule all our events. My friends wife passed away and we don’t hang out anymore. Covid lockdown really affected me. My community was my coworkers. I worked with many of them from 10 to 25 years. Covid hits, Corporate decides it is cheaper to have everybody work from home. I protested and tried going into the office but nobody returned. I self medicated with alcohol, still do really. My family relocated to get away from oppressive laws. Still trying to meet new people. Right now my friends are my projects. I have no friends.
if you have hobbies then find groups of men that do said hobbies, if not find new hobbies you might like and join a group that does it, the problem is you have to break the bad habit of going to work and then going to or staying home.
Same boat....I Emigrated to Sydney, got one friend and he was through work! Much older than me too. There's no places people go to hang out or meet up, there's no real traditional pubs or places to go. Everyone just lives in their own bubble. I'm glad I brought my wife otherwise I probably would never have survived here, due to lonliness. Only time I get to socialise is my old mate back in the UK who I xbox with every Sunday morning. It seems modern society has been built to keep people apart and there seems to be no incentive for people to want to make new friends. New
years ago i made a conscious/part unconscious decision to not get close to anyone anymore. i have friends, but it's casual, intermittent, and kept at arms reach. do i miss having a "brother-like" connection to a friend? sure, but my experience is that you cannot fully trust anyone and the risk is not worth it.
@@carlyellison8498 on one hand i agree. on the other, ive experienced such acute pain and stress from relationships (both plutonic and romantic) that, in spite of my best efforts to care for my health, i figure my odds of having a stroke, coronary, or cancer have increased greatly. as humans, we are flawed and giving that beautiful unconditional trust that is the benchmark of a "deeper friendship" is simply to much health risk IMO. i am a 51yo, married father of two...i have much love in my life, but battle scarred wisdom will get me a better chance at some form of inner peace before its done.
Same thing with women. I was betrayed by some female friends. I dont have many friends anymore. And i dont insist. Too many betrayals in recent years. When i was younger i was proud of myself for having good friends and for being a good friend. That was part of my identity. But now…
Yes it's true you can't trust anyone. And in the end they all.let you down. But then that negative cancels itself out. You go in "knowing how it works" and accept it for what it is...
@@successsystem2468 i can grasp that fine, youre right -but it's still not worth it to me, personally. i think on some level, many of us are perpetually heartbroken because we wanted (and expected) more from humanity -heart and honor among other traits. of course, that's not what we are. but alas, not to worry -it'll all be over soon enough. limping to the finish line....
“I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12. Jesus, does anyone?” I really do miss my wolfpack from when I was a kid. There was the funny guy, the tough guy, the sensitive guy, the crazy guy. And all accepted each other for who we were. Parents couldn't get us to rat each other out. Girls couldn't divide our loyalty. If you messed with one of us, you messed with all of us. We'd have gone to the ends of the earth for each other. Then the years passed and we had to grow up and be responsible young men so we could be good husbands and fathers. And barely ever see each other again. And the only relationships that are not conditional in our new adult lives are the relationships with our kids. Everyone else only wants us for our utility. They don't want us for who we are.
Yes the beauty of that quote and that film is that girls still haven't fully intruded so your friendship with your 11 and 12 year old friends is extensive and fulfilling 😢
@@blueglassog3600 I'm truly sorry if that has happened to you. I have a friend who had that happen to him. It was awhile ago so now he has grandchildren he never gets to see. In this case, it's now mostly because his ex took his family to another part of the country and my friend is living below the poverty line. It's friggin sad, man.
My workplace has banned friendships between colleagues. Workplaces these days have become totalitarian, my way or the highway (you signed the contract blah blah).
@@lundswedenit is really interesting. From jobs to apartment leases, every industry seems to have identical contracts or terms for their industry. No competition at all. Makes you feel like there is something larger pulling the strings.
In my last relationship my gf always made fun of me for not having any friends. I had girl friends but no guy friends. I never talked about the girls. The day i made my first guy friend in years she became very jealous that we hungout out a lot and never wanted him around.
I have one left, i thought that i had 3 close friends, but covid put a stop to that. 2 lost their minds an went in the rabbit hole, and started shit talking and disrespecting me because of my pragmatic view of the situation. The one i have left i have known since i was 4 years old, he is like a brother. we meet up 7-8 times a year.
Covid and Trump both combined in a deadly way. At least one third of the country for a time was sucked down Trump's dystopian view of what America should be. Based on some comments online, I suspect that some of the people who voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020 have since decided that their vote(s) was/were a major mistake after January 6th. I live in hope that they have seen the light and will not vote for Trump again in 2024.
No one needs to be lonely. If we can find our purpose whatever that is, then we do not need to be valued by others. The best friends are not people we need or who need us but people who enjoy being with one another (Aristotle) not just those who have utility. So the key is to find purpose before finding friends
When you mentioned about the need for men to be shoulder to shoulder and do stuff together, including fixing things, it reminded me of what I read in ‘It’s Good to be a Man’ by Michael Foster and Bnonn Tennant. They discuss how up until recently, most male friendships are formed by and involved with being “on mission”. They write from a Christian point of view, and I think this speaks volumes about male relationships. Men aren’t wired to always sit around talking with each other. They want to do things, improve skills, work together to achieve common goals etc. In decades gone by a lot of this would be part and parcel with attending a church community where there are a shared set of values and purpose. Without this, men don’t really know what to do.
Personally the effect of alcohol on human behavior and relationships, and conversely the lack thereof, was something I was not prepared for, in my neck of the woods. I had a lot of friends older, younger, some very close friends. Before h.s. was half over most really get into drinking beer & alcohol, has to be part of every activity, fishing, playing pool , everything from age 14 til death. I do have an occasional beer, but it's not my life. Without it ruling my life like basically everyone I know, loneliness is all I know from age 16 to 49. He spoke here another time with Daniel Amen i think, how people act like something is wrong with you if you say "not tonight", for example, you have to navigate the language because if you say, " I don't drink" its like a death sentence for the most part
The fact that boys nowadays have to go looking for this answer is a problem. I think most of us here have been searching for answers for the past years, and there are some boys/men who are still lost. A purpose, guidance, and feeling of worth is what we lack. It isn't enough to have male role models via the internet.
I’m 54 now and had around 8 close friends up to 44 then they got married etc. still got 2 close friends from that group I still message and go drinks with. Moral of the story don’t lose contact with friends for a woman because you could end up lonely and it’s selfish
In my case I had made friends in school. It is hard to make friends after school. The best friends you will have are the ones who are in a similar boat as you. Being an incel and single I've had to get used to doing things by myself like going to the movies, eating out etc. The friends I had made I lost because they got married. The woman typically wants to put an end to the male friendships they have. We only should be friends with other married people. The guy has to put up with it because he is getting laid sometimes. The women go into the phase of Baby Rabies and they start cranking out kids. I could say the grass is greener over there or I can say that in my case that all my time and money are my own. I don't have to put up with the drama that women bring. I have a great credit score compared to a lot of other people and enough money to live on and very little debt. Those facts bring me a lot of peace.
Making friends is extremely easy when you're younger, and extremely harder the older you get. The real world is tough and people are selfish because society makes you that way, especially in the US. Friends usually cost money, and you have to trust that person won't screw you over if they get a chance. I'd suggest having 2 close friends and then having a good standing with multiple acquaintances, so your network is strong.
The late WWE wrestler Shad Gaspard’s wife said at his induction, paraphrasing “Women are known for who they are. Men are known for what they do.” We have to provide something. Chris Rock spoke on this.
Finished highschool with 1 close friend. Friendship lasted a few more years untill i had a fallout with my mother and my friend took her side , now 2 years later hes surprised the hell out of me by sending me happy birthday wishes . Im waiting for the weather to warm up then im dragging him out to a park so we can talk shoulder to shoulder and catch up
I don’t even try to make friends bc I actually enjoy being alone. I’ve been betrayed by those closest to me so I have a hard time trusting anyone or wanting to.
Making fun of each other, so you dont get bored. Some that is taken with grain of salt, then you have a good laugha bout it because you know it was fun. not real thing, because you donmt take yourself seriously. that you dress like somthing and then you make laugh about it. Some polite prank, but with empathy.
Once men get married, they tend to disappear into that bubble. Marriage has become very insular in modern times, where it used to be more of a community. I remember my grandparents always had people from the neighborhood coming by and also extended families tended to live close by. Now we barely know the people next door in many cases and live hours away from extended family. I've also noticed few men have interests or hobbies outside of their job and watching TV when they get home. Outside interests are a great way to meet friends-I've played in bands for years and met some great guys that way.
Absolutely. Being used by your employer, living in splendid isolation with your spouse, don't speak to the neighbours next-door etc. Joining clubs helps if you've got the energy and your wife doesn't play up too much accusing you of seeing a girlfriend
I've been going with the same three fellows to watch the football team we support for 30 years. We have a laugh, take the piss out of each other, discuss all sorts of subjects. I very rarely see any of them in between the matches and at times, when I was skint, almost dropped out going but boy am I glad I kept it going because they feel like my brothers now. The football used to be the reason, now its the excuse. P.S. I have a fabulous wife who has never ever given me a hard time for going out, be it to football or the pub.
Never seen any of your videos I don’t know either of you but what a fantastic video this really broke my heart and I can relate. as a human being we all have these issues in one form or another we are much more connected to one another then we might know or understand. Love and faith are so important in our lives just my personal opinion, loving something or someone and faith in God or whatever it might be for the individual.
Some of the most infuriating stories I've read regarding suicide are the ones when the eulogy is being done and the religious figure they *hired* with their own money then goes on a rant about how suicide is a sin and that the dead person is rightfully in Hell, etc. I've seen this in mostly Catholic context but I'm sure it happens in other circumstances as well. Religion is one of the reasons shame is prevalent with this topic.
Thank God for this. I had to retire from work due to ill health 25 years ago. I'm really bad at keeping in touch with people and I've moved house all over the country 23 times. It also doesn't help that I'm Autistic. At 69 I don't have a friend and it's been that way for over 20 years. I thought it was just me.
The shoulder to shoulder thing is real...some of the realest conversations I've ever had was while driving or sitting at a bar or walking/hiking/running
I haven’t had a friend since 2014. I used to have 3-4 good male friends as a teen and into my early 20’s but once I moved to another state, I never made a friend, and the old friendships fell off as we never saw each other and lived 20 hours away. It’s probably the thing I miss the most, having other guys who share similar experiences and interests.
my whole experience of school was feminist teachers telling all the boys how worthless and unwanted we were to society. I found that I had a community at the airport where I was doing my pilots licence, I found a community at the cadets, if I only went to school I probably wouldn't be here now, the teachers made my life hell at school and dropping out of highschool felt like being cured of a disease and was the happiest day of my life.
Are you sure they weren't recounting statistics like men kill more men in society? Women are more likely to be killed by a man? That men subject female bodies to overkill? Those are established statistics. Was it things like that?
There are many truths about the gynocentric school systems and their abuse towards boys. Feminism has poisoned generations of women into believing the division of family and mistreatment of men and boys benifits women.
Damn thats crazy. Those teachers probably thought that because they had bad experiences with men in their life. And i dont mean it was necessarily some man in her life that hurt her. But a lot of women just dont know how to communicate with the men in their lives. But taking it out on school kids who youre supposed to be helping is just dark.
68. Male. Married 43 years. Had a friend for 50 years. He ‘divorced’ our friendship because my views about the Bible have changed. Since I retired, all the people I was ‘close’ to have ‘moved on’. My friends now are my siblings (many), my 4 grandchildren and my youngest son. My wife could care less about me. Saddens me. This life is very temporary. God and heaven awaits.
i am 38 yo. and i made 5 wonderful friendships during these past 7 years (when my sons were born). lads i did not know before. we go to the woods and make campfires. we talk and cry. we celebrate, complain, have each others back. the friend from my childhood and youth died out (3 exeptions). i made friends as an adult. and it‘s such a good thing it happened. ❤❤❤❤ i am not a person who is very social and in need of constant human interaction. what i seek is deprh, honesty, voulnarability, strenght, wisdom, humor.
Feminism is what caused that and this guest is nothing but a male feminist who was sent by feminists to do damage control. Because the problems of what they have done started to backfire
You don't, it happens all by itself when you're around someone you talk to and otherwise get along with. That doesn't mean they're lifelong, most friendships are temporary.
@@devilsoffspring5519 You are right that most friendships are temporary, they could be even 15 years but most people move and change places. Also, that may be a bit more challenging with people who live in big cities because at some point people get married. and after some time they tend to move a bit outside the city, but can you still keep the connection by putting some effort.
I moved to europe 18 years ago. Despite my active effort to build friendships, i only made temporary friendships. I also lost the old ones. My best friends are my parents. Thank god for them.
@@tylerdurden5359 I would ask, without being facetious, “what have you done to make friends?”. Do you have hobbies? What are you passionate about? Are you doing anything besides working, eating, sleeping? It is much easier if you have something you are passionate about and connect with others who share your passion. It can be anything, golf, knitting, model airplanes, Formula One, football, watching trains, anything. Put yourself out there, it works. Apologies if that sounds pedantic or overly simplified.
@@tylerdurden5359 I’m not really clear on your point. How else would one make a new friend? Every new friend, by definition, starts out a stranger. You might go in not knowing anyone, but the idea is you come out knowing at least one other person. That’s kind of how making new friends works.
Wow this is crazy and sad to hear. I am in my 40s, and I started making friends at 4 years old in the sandbox (actually literally) and I still meet some of them on an almost weekly basis and others irregularly. The "last" friends I made were like just a year ago at work and after they left we still meet up for lunches. I always found it really easy to make new friends and also stay in contact with them and I just assumed this was how it is for everybody. And no, I am not super rich and they want to play at my villa, I am not a celebrity or anything, I am just a normal guy. I just really really like people and relationships mean everything to me, having fun together and doing this. I put a lot of effort into it. Hearing about these stories makes me sad as hell, I really hope you, if you are lonely and reading this, can get out there and make friends. There is nothing more valuable.
This is very much the same for myself. This is such a broad topic to cover and everyones situation is different, female or male. However in current society overall the 'statistics' must indicate how challenging it is for men.
After decades of having what I thought were friends, I came to the understanding that I haven't had a real friend since I was a child. For a man, no other man will come to your rescue, if there is any chance it will negatively affect them. Some guys will say that their friend would back them up in a fight but the reality is that the person they think is their friend is doing it out of self interest because they enjoy fighting
Isn't that what a friend is? Another person whose interests happen to align with our own? Actually asking. I do agree though, if I understand what you're saying, that every interaction is a transaction. What I'm trying to say is that, at heart, we are all selfish.
@@hapster22 I have associates who I share the same common interest with. I find that only sharing a common interest and nothing more, benefits me the most. So yes, I am more selfish now than I have ever been. I am alone more but not more lonely
So true. I wqs thinking about this recently, i dont feel comfortable asking my friend if they wanna go for a coffee etc. so usually I wait until something breaks and then ill ask if snyone is free to help me. I still feel a cheeky qsking that but sometimes youve gotta do it
This was a tough listen. I cut my former best friend from my life. He was a parasite snd I got sick of him and his family using me. I really don’t have any friends or family to speak to. Mental illness runs in my family. I have depression issues but hide it very well. My sister self deleted about 10 years ago.
I went four days without speaking to anyone. Four. Days. The thing of it was, I was out skiing every day. I turned on my music, and just went through the singles line. Skied all morning, went home to my cat. And I was happy!!
The point about not being face to face to open up to one another .. it’s a technique that’s been used in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy for years as what they do is put their client “on the couch”. The therapist would at an angle from the client and they wouldn’t be looking straight at each other. It helps you to open up and talk about things you wouldn’t normally do so face to face
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📺 Watch the full episode here -
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I got 3, all from high school time, I'm in my 50's. Talk to them every 5-10 years without fail.
5 to 10 years 😆
Sounds like the new universal truth mate
It's all about consistency.
I know exactly what you're talking about. Same story here.
The best friends are the ones with no expectation of your time but when you meet just carry on from where you left off, even if it’s decades apart.
The older I get, my old friends seem to have less and less in common with me. You get to the point where you wonder who the hell these people are anymore and why you even still hang out with them.
@@redwatch1100 this is an excellent point. I think most people over 30 can relate. We change through our life experiences, and others often don’t change in the same way (how could they?). This makes it even more relevant for people to find way and skills to make new friends as they change and their lives and goals no longer align with earlier friends. Very well put.
Well said, all very good points, I have stopped hanging out with people I have nothing in common with, as we age it's harder to make new friends and one of the reasons is everyone has such busy lives. Just keep going guys, if you wake up in the morning stick your elbows out and don't feel mahogany it's not going to be such a bad day,.
that hit hard. The last time i met one of my oldest / closest friends i literally thought by myself who tf is this guy?
Not only that but some of your so-called mates will resent you if your life goes better in their eyes than their own.
@@theoutsider6191True. But not just your mates, Family too. The spirit of Cain is heavy in society more than ever 😢🙏🏾
The prerequisite to FRIENDSHIP is to be FRIENDLY.
I think a lot of people throughout the course of their lives unfortunately forget this basic fact.
Not really, I'm 47 and I have found all my life that antisocial people tend to be held in high regard and always have tons of followers, even ones who've done prison time for rape, assault, stalking etc.
Conscientious people do *not* have that automatic 'clout' and worship everywhere they go.
Maybe Canadians are just degenerates, who knows.
I'll be honest, I never understood the need for friendship or even socialising. I do it because it is expected, but I prefer to be on my own, and I seem to have no interest in other people, which makes all my relationships extremely shallow. I prefer the company of my dogs. Relationships with women apart from their suffocating neediness often suck precicely because they crave to be social. I suffer through all that for mainly the sex. I don't remember a time I felt lonely, but I did see it in my dog, which is why I rescued another dog to keep her company.
@@Brakka86 Nothing wrong with natural introversion. Only problem is that in our culture, young women find it unacceptable so young guys have to tolerate image-based pecking-order crap just to attract a dumb female :)
I guess … I dunno , kinda seems like a 2 dimensional outlook though. I think it’s more complicated than that. People are complicated.
I’m generally like that now. Mainly due to not enough time and my hobbies and family taking the remaining free time. My wife understands me enough that we live comfortably and I’m so grateful to have her but she suckers me into her social endeavors and I always feel like a pay a big price out of my mental energy. It’s hard for others to fully understand this.
People these days are so fucking transactional, you’re only kept around as long as you’re useful.
If you lose the utility your “friendship” is valued at near zero.
Agreed I said this the other day , I always showed up did what I could to help friends . When I went through a hard time watched everyone of my friends leave at some point except 2 ( true mates ) people only want you around on their terms and what you offer for them . World sucks .
Individualism at its peak
One of the books on my reading list is called: "Games that people play" by Eric Berne. It's about Transactional Analysis.
Yeah, it's often transactions. Sadly a lot of people like to just take and rarely give back.
Yea 100% spot on, agreed
Yes, lately i've dropped out of my music band because they have said I'm sounding like sh!t and they forbid me to play, week before our first gig (even thou only two of fourteen set tracks were half baked). One of these guys I have thought of as a pretty close friend and he did nothing to sort things out (even taking in consideration that he was the leader), also they used me by taking some of my money to pay for few things (luckly not much) because all of them are living almost on debt.
I have a like 6 fantastic mates and the only reason i have these guys, is because these guys appreciate the talks, brutal honesty and friendship we share for eachother. Talk to your brothers guys, real deep talk. We need it.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless. And they used to work six days a week back then, but they still had the time for socializing.
No Internet, TV or smartphone. Socializing was only way of entertainment.
Think of the ramification of that: If men mostly hang out with guys, and it tends to create tension with girls, what happens when we go from all male to 50/50 workplaceS? It means 100% to 50% of potential friendships reduction. Not many hang out with opposite gender and if they have a partner it will not be so popular. So that is a huge one. Same goes for women when they were home wives.
Social Media is at the core of most of societies issues today.
The internet destroyed the earth and social media was the final coup de grâce.
@redwatch1100 nail on the head my friend. Sad times
@@redwatch1100 What you say has a large amount to deal with it currently, but when I look at men I know the generation before me, they're the same, My father, uncles, grandfather, etc. They have friends from college and childhood, or the military, but no new friends after they were in their 20s. At least not on a meaningful level. I think this has been a problem for quite a while now. Social media has definitely made it more difficult though, its one of the reasons I lost my best friend of 20+ years.
@@sij809 💯
No, don’t blame “social media”.
It’s economics, neoliberalism, feminism, big government, etc.
Going back to nature and nature’s ways would help.
As a 50+ Aussie male who grew up in the country, I can easily name 10+ guys I grew up with died by suicide in their teens & 20’s. Well before mental health was acknowledged. I truly hope my son’s generation follows a different path
Aussie here too. I've had a similar amount. It's a tragedy truly.
Yep, definitely agree .. also Aussie and right on point. The “macho men do not cry drink your your beer and man up” culture did not help … fortunately times are changing … mental health really only is being talked about post Covid
Lived in Perth for 12 years, the way it is here is one big race to the top, by snitching and back stabbing rather than hard work. It means that people you work with are colleagues and not work-mates, it's very sad.
@@JamesG89 it was the same here in Melbourne. bunch off back stabbers
I made friends with an old homeless fella, who lived under the overpass near me, in Yokohama. About 12 years ago, when I first moved here and I passed him on the way to the station, he'd shout "Ringo Starr!" which made me chuckle. When family and friends were over from England, I'd made a point of stopping to say hello to him and saying "who do I look like?", and when he said "Ringo Starr, Beatles!" they'd be in stitches as well. So, from buying him a bottle of water on hot days, popping in the convenience store for him if he was hungry, buying him a pocket transistor radio and gloves for Christmas and stuff like that, I got to know him a bit better. I haven't seen him for a few months now, his mobility was becoming chronically bad, and I think he's been taken off the streets by the authorities. I always look around the underpass on the way to the station, but I sadly don't really expect he'll come back. Friendship developing has no chance unless the two potential friends are prepared to find a bit of time for each other though.
GBU. Good on you.
He dead bro
@avairal5936 I was gonna say, even in Los Angeles it was still hypothermia weather at night even as of 2 months ago. When it rains, people die of hypothermia, but people also die of it from the dew if they don't have a tent AND a sleeping bag. Anything below 50 degrees is hypothermia, but the 50s is also hypothermia weather, except it takes 3-6 hours to die of hypothermia versus 3 hour or less in the 40s
The kindness you showed. Wish more people would do the same. Myself included.
Because we live in a society where you’re in a hamster wheel for 90 hours a week just to be able to afford a house.
Homo economicus. Working 3 times as hard to afford 3 times less than our grandparents did due to the inflation of an unsustainable fiat currency, egged on by women who thinks everything they see on social media is attainable via you, the man who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, hasn't the time or energy for friends just for her to claim she's independent, doesn't appreciate his efforts anyway and could probably just go and do onlyfans without any shame whatsoever.
Imagine how easy life would be if born female and beautiful
yup
Agreed, and would add that I suspect it's not depression/mental health for men in most cases, but rather despair at facing an insurmountable problem eg. job loss, debt, divorce, child custody battles, genetics affecting relationship prospects... that leads to an untimely end.
It's sad but true, and then we only get 5-10 years to live if we are lucky and we are old with broken bodies wishing we could do it all sooner.
Not exactly. 100 plus years ago food wasn't prevelant like is it today. You would work all day to grownor put food on the table. Many went to town once a month or if lucky once a week.
What I am not hearing here is the loss of 3rd spaces for community gatherings and socializing.
Unless you invite someone to your place, which you probably have room mates, or a tiny space you have to go out and spend money every time you do anything.
Corporations have found a way to exploit, profit, and own every aspect of our lives.
I was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s, retired now. From my perspective society seems much more competitive and status oriented than ever before. People are more judgmental, hot tempered and generally egotistical. The term “road rage” didn’t exist when was young. It’s fairly common now. I see all kinds of weird forms aggression on the road when driving. Generally, people seemed more friendly, humble, thoughtful and kind when I was young. It’s a more hostile world today. On the why end of things. As I said previously, I think it is the pursuit of status, wealth and material things. That combined with an immersion into on-line worlds of fantasy. Everyone one is involved with that and avoiding actual one-on-one interaction with people.
I just retired too. A few things were different back then. People were not so rude and selfish. Public idiocy was not tolerated well. If you “got in someone’s face” or treated another with the level of disrespect I see in society today, you would be eating knuckles and picking your teeth up off the ground for dessert. There are zero consequences for people’s behavior now.
It’s way more likely that you just don’t like video games.
@@FloofusTheCat Nah, he's right. I say this as a 23 yr old.
Social Media has made everyone way more competitive and judgmental. For all human history, you were only in competition with the people in your community. If you had a 6 pack (just an example) you were considered special. Now that we have social media, the pool of competition went from the people in your community to literally everyone in the world.
Now, women have to compete with edited photos of people who are already supermodels. They will see the supermodel's man take her out for a $50k dinner and then fly her to Dubai, then they get upset their man can't/isn't doing that for them. Men have to compete with supermodels too, and they have to compete with a billionaire's son who can fly their desired woman in from anywhere and take her anywhere to eat and can buy her anything she wants.
The worst part is that average men and women will see these popular Instagram influencers and truly believe they DESERVE that level too (they don't), and they don't even account for the fact that these Instagram profiles are curated make the owner's life look 10x better than it actually is. Now we have men who will only settle for the supermodel (despite being a 6/10 on their best day), women will only settle for the billionaire.
Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but there are lot of NPC's in the world.
My experience in relationships has been that the woman I’m with expects to be the priority at every moment, and any time with attention on someone/something else is a detriment to the woman’s needs. It’s beyond codependency, it’s a built in expectation with women, and it’s isolated men for generations.
Yep. Men get a gf or wife and you never see them again
Same, it really bothers me that my Friends are now missing, they have girlfriends and they disappear
Those are controlling women. You are picking them like that, most of the time it's got something to do with an unhealthy relationship with your mother.
There are tons of non-controlling women out there, you just need to figure out what *you* are doing wrong when you go after a woman.
I have had friends in those relationships but was never in one myself - I can see those women from a mile away, because they *don't* act like my stable and mentally healthy mom or sister who I grew up around.
@@bbainter7880 well said, but also easier said than done. It took me 6 years (from 42 to 48) to understand and undo the damage caused by my cruel, abusive and narcissistic mother. She’s been a curse on my family and ruined every aspect of our lives. As children we were programmed to accept and normalize selfishness, cruelty and neglect…. And that’s what I looked for in women as an adult thinking it was normal and ok. I’m finally with a beautiful and loving woman and have zero contact with my mother.
There is a steep learning curve to knowing real friends from acquaintances, but men can definitely have real friends.
They can. But not the younger generations in the west.
Speak for yourself. I got a homie and going by what I see in these comments I can tell why they don't have any friends.
When did he say they couldn’t? Low level comprehension or something?
I never got married. One by one as my friends all got married, they dropped off. Especially after having kids. I ran into trouble with several of their controlling wives that wouldn’t let them out of the house and they were too weak to stand up to them.
I kept trying to maintain the friendship by getting together once a month. When that didn’t work, I tried quarterly, then every six months and finally once a year before I wrote them off. It pissed me off and also hurt.
They were guys I used to hang out with several times a week. Finally I just politely said, “I know you are really busy with life. I would really like to maintain a friendship with you. The ball is in your court, give me a call some time, I’d love to get together again.” Never heard back from any of them.
You are apparently blind to the amount of time parents have if they work full time and their children are young. The wives are not controlling. The wives have every right to want their husbands to spend time with their kids and contribute to housework/yard work. It is time to grow up and realize that most of your friends are probably not getting even six hours of sleep a night if their kids are young. Think again about their priorities and you might understand why the men choose to back their wives if you have the attitude that those wives are "controlling". In addition, the men may have come to the decision that they have grown apart from you, a former friend. They moved on in life. You did not.
@@alexr6114 😅🤣😂 if you think “sacrificing” two or three hours once a year entirely planned well in advance on your own schedule is too much to ask there is something wrong.
@@alexr6114 i see the same in my life, my friends cant go anywhere but their wives come and go as they please, i was friends with a bunch since i was 12, we all grew up got married etc, now the wives are the friends and do stuff together and we don;t , we try but there is always a reason that they cant due to plans that pop up after our plans we make, its driven our friendships apart.
I find when women control men its classed as under the thumb, when men do it, its toxic controlling behaviour , women make time for one and other, men don;t
Nah @@alexr6114
@@alexr6114 I have seen many married couples and seen this similar excuse given.
However, that seems to be the case for only men though. The women always have plenty of time to chat with THEIR friends and meet with their friends and have girls night out, etc.
If a guy tries that, she will CLAIM she is ok with it but you can see from her facial expressions and her behavior after that she is clearly not.
The guys just take the path of least resistance and just comply with whatever the woman wants. Honestly, I cannot blame them, it is just easier that way.
After being disappointed and disrespected by many former "friends" I'm okay by myself. I enjoy my own company. My family and my cats are enough for me.
@@AnnaAtl So true
Definitely understand especially during the Convid years
The cats are the main thing bro. Cats are beings of perfection - that's why the hatred of them
All my “friends” told me i deserve to lose my job over the mandates. One even told me i should be thrown into a prison camp
Sorry you went through that. I’ll never forgive those that caused all the madness. Keep those who listened to you closer as I have done.
I closed down my business to learn furniture making and i was stunned to see how everybody at my school was so likeminded despite being from diverse backgrounds and age groups. We have all rejected the values of modern civilization. I have made some great new friends and i am 43
I should try that. We have a wood store in my area called rockler that offers classes.
All my friends were mostly met from school, I don't talk to any of them anymore. Now its just me, myself, and water.
I make sure to hug my 4-year-old son every day. I also don't have any friends. I want him to know I'll always be not just his father but his friend as well...
Thats good, man
You aren't supposed to be his friend.
@@frankstallone3864i think it helps? Besides i know alot of men who dont get to see there kids grow up or not want to see there kids grow up so id take a friend for life from my dad.
Social life will never be the same
If you grew up Gen x etc you experienced community ,
Fridays we would go down town , meet up at pizza places , cruise around in cars , go to parties , swim in the river , and finally we did match making for each other ❤
❤
Very relatable
I dont have any friends because I witnessed multiple instances where people close to me flip a switch and turn into complete two-faced backstabbers. Multiple instances where I needed help and they turned me away, realizing people don't practice what they preach and morality is only present when it's convenient
What was the common denom8nator in all those friendships that went bad......? You.
My husband has no friends , what’s so sad is he is a nice guy . He has colleagues and acquaintances who are also nice guys . This is a tragedy / travesty .
I'm the same, no friends at all. I wake up, go to work, come home. I dread days off and annual leave because work is the only place I connect with people. If your husband is in the UK or even not, then I'd be more than happy to become friends with him
@@garyhalkon8749 im so sorry that’s awful for you . We live in Sydney Australia , so regretfully not in the UK . I will talk to him tonight about it when he gets home from work , but no promises Gary he may not as … I don’t know why , it seems to be a concrete wall he hits , when it comes to interaction . Which makes this all so very difficult . I really hate this for you guys , you are all really great guys . ( not just in intelligence and academics ) but you’re all witty ,funny and smart your thoughts and opinions are so important and relevant . What is happening in the world .
Nice guys finish last
@@garyhalkon8749 hey 👋 im so sorry this is happening to you . I will tell my husband tonight after he gets home from work about you , you’re so cool ! But as you know it’s hard for him even if i reached out for him … there seems to be a real hard barrier that can’t be broken thru . All of you guys are so witty ,clever and so so funny . Sadly we are not in the UK but we live in Australia . Gary do you have a hobby ? I like art so ive joined 2 art groups on line . We zoom as a team as we’re all over the world . I know it’s not the same as in person but it’s a start in the right direction . Don’t be alone buddy you are too precious for that !!!!!
Don't feel bad. That's how I live too. I suspect once we get out of school it's our we spend our lives. It's funny, I was thinking earlier today about how people back in the tribe says probably felt a lot more connected..your surrounded by family, that all love each other, do their part to help out etc. not going to some random job and working for another tribe that doesn't give 2 shits about you besides are you working hard enough and bringing in enough money for his tribe. Humans are definitely not designed to operate as we are today. I don't think in the early days did we have drug issues, alcoholism, bankruptcy, divorces etc.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless.
bot account
@@frankstallone3864 What the hell are you talking about?
The latter part of the conversation with regards to men taking their own lives is so important. I work at a crematorium in UK as a gardener (but also help work the chapel and the machines also) and you would be surprised at how many young men we receive. I see the families that pass through the chapel and the impact it has on them. As someone who has suffered with depression at times in my life, the one common theme is always the feeling of being useless or not of need. We as a planet have to halt this phenomenon. We’ve become more connected than ever through our phones and technology, yet we are now more separated as a result. I hope we can find a solution before more lives are cut short.
Yep … the value of human life has cheapened driven by corporate profits and political self interest… erosion of national values, globalization of manufacturing, social media etc 😢 I am in my 40s and feel very lucky to have had my teenage years in the 90s with real friends and those holiday adventures away from screens
What actually happens is your girlfriend freezes out your real friends & replaces them with the boyfriends of her friends.
It’s like pod people.
So, when the relationship ends you are on your own because you ignored your real friends. And you didn’t even know it happened.
Get active with other people, do stuff, with other people, and be in places with other people. People just want other people to do things with them. Simple.
Agreed, these days the best way to get out and socialize and eventually maybe make friends, is by volunteering somewhere. There are so many organizations to join, or some sports club or whatever, and then the "social quota" is met. This applies for those in the workforce and for those outside of it too.
This has been quite difficult. Finding “places” with other people, which do not require constant injection of money (like a bar, restaurant, etc) are nonexistent in many communities (like mine).
I did that. Actively. For years. To make new friends in a new city. Then i noticed if the activity stops for some reason people stop contacting each other. That means there was no real friendship in the first place. It was just situational. Dance classes, sports classes, hiking, etc all the same results. People have gone crazy.
@delaslight existence requires continuation. It's not about the people, its about you. If you stop feeding the body, the body will have to stop.
It is not hard to find people. Finding real friends (aka best friends) is hard these days. People are very transactional. Friendship must benefit them. It is hard to find someone who really care for us in emotional level. But those are what we need.
I treasure my 2 best friends. Anyone else is like a clothes, they can stay or go if they want since their friendship is not real.
Something I've noticed is how many women are increasingly controlling in marriage - like how many guys now feel that they have to ask permission to go do something outside the house besides work - and this is so common, it's normalized and people don't even question it. And it's often subtle, in that women say their husband can do whatever they want, but then they create a ton of problems and arguments if the guy tries to have any sort of life outside the family. Guys end up (often without realizing it's happening over time) going out less and less making it difficult to maintain friendships. Guys that are single tend to spend much more time with friends or doing their own stuff like hobbies or sports.
Yes and in my own experience isolate their partners due to their own psychological insecurities. The cure to that is to do exactly what you want and let the silent or what tactic comes your way slide off your back. Its funny how if you just maintain your own course the eventually respect you for it. If not then just get out. Life’s to short for coercive bullshit.
Many guys turn their sovereignty over to their spouse. “I gotta ask the old lady”.
Most of it is that a lot of men can’t handle freedom. It is too heady an elixir.
DAVRO
@@sheilaoreilly6826 Exactly right Sheila. Pls excuse my previous written grammar - was still half asleep.
Some wives, not all wives, actively eliminate their husbands friends.
Last best friend i had was when i was up to the age of 15. Im 43 now & have lots of acquaintances. I just dont let people get close enough anymore. Trust issue i guess. I only feel comfortable with my wife & kids & brother & close family
I think that's okay.
Sometimes there s no more "space" for more, especially when we have work and family to attend too.
Same. So many “friends” that I have emotionally really invested in, sometimes prioritised them over my family turned out to be very very disappointing.
So no more wasting time on this non sense. Prioritise your family.
@@ParkerPennies ❤️
That's because as soon as you get married/settle down, you're not allowed "friends".
Not enough time for friends. Men socialize for a greater purpose. In my eyes, religion doesn’t provide that as the church strayed away from how and why their religion was created. Men like me want to fight for something and we need other men along our side
Wrong as usual
I am a male of 68 years, this has been brought up recently by a very dear classmate at our 50th high school reunion. A subject I most definitely need to research more. Great content as always, will listen in on the entire interview. Thank you.
Thank you sir
In my life experience as a 63 year old man, wives don’t like husbands to have friends. Wives in general don’t like husbands to have anything outside marriage.
Mmm I think you just met a wrongun and someone who was codependent. The signs are usually there, someone who has very little going on in their own lives, little to no friendships. The high level attention may be flattering in the beginning but it's not a healthy sign for long term. My partner has a great group of childhood friends,they meet up every week for chats and then plan trips and social gatherings for food etc. I need that time to myself, for myself and he gets to relate to his gender folk and allow his masculine side to pop out, when at home, he's a support and relaxed gent. we have good communication and balance and I find most of my friends are like that. They need the "me time" in a relationship to value the time spent together. Men can also be codependent and needy in a relationship if they do not maintain friendships and hobbies.
As a 50 year old guy, the only friendships I’m interested in as I get older are those where we do stuff together, e.g. cycling, watching our favourite football team, some business adventure, some major common interest. Having a high friends turnover is healthy and good.
I learned I am autistic in my early 40's. Eye contact and small talk are near impossible. It is difficult to make friends without doing something with a goal or shared interest (sports are the best.) Getting a friendship to where it is lasting is near impossible because I don't interact in the "standard" method. I basically end up with short term acquaintances and nothing more, generally only while I serve a purpose. I have a STEM PhD and it is easier for me to teach class to 30-50 people than it is to approach one person I know nothing about. I have almost a second degree black belt and I can basically interact with people at the dojang in terms of learning but socially is very difficult. Unless I know my place I am beyond shy and will just try to disappear.
“Unless I know my place I will try to disappear”. I feel this deeply. This has been me in every single interaction of my entire life.
I was also diagnosed autistic in my 40s and I completely understand. I don’t understand small talk, including idle banter, and I end up being the one person in the room no-one’s talking to. I’m also not a ‘smiler’ even though I’m almost never angry, and I think it makes people feel like I’m cold, but I can’t fake a smile.
@@thefuturist8864 Yea, I have flat affect (no smile / resting bastard face from the amount of bullying I faced for being awkward and not understanding, I looked like I was 26 when I was 14) as well. I get the "you're intimidating" even at work from other people just as qualified as I am. As soon as someone talks to me for a while they generally can't believe what they are hearing because the physical stereotype / picture they formed doesn't match what they are hearing. This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time.
Yup. Approaching a stranger goes something like - what do I say to them - Oh god I've got to say something to them - but what - anxiety builds - there's the weather (boring) - there's 'how are you' - the anxiety builds a bit more. I start to want to escape but then feel ashamed of that. I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety disorder but there is overlap with Autistic Spectrum. The problem with small talk is it's an unstructured conversation with few sign posts and little information to guide the discussion. It also depends a lot on how expressive you are, something which Autistics and Social Anxiety sufferers struggle with. I think it's also somewhat harder for men on average, women are much more expressive in their communication style which is why it's said that men often bond around an activity.
Most of what we consider “friends” are really just “acquaintances” Real friendship requires openness and truly being yourself with your friends which sadly is very difficult to do nowadays because most “friends” are in competition with each other instead of getting each other’s backs.
I am so thankful for my 2 guy friends, we share everything and have deep talks. Their friendship saved me many times. I don't know where I'd be without their support.
After the age of 45 - either All my friends have died- or have been completely consumed in family dynamics. The friends i do have are work related and although fine, the work experiences is so full of stress and endless work politics that any meaningful relationship outside of the work environment is not sustainable. Most men i know either become INVISIBLE OR FIND AN OUTLET IN NATURE- usually alone or possibly hiking or hunting groups, sporting activities,,even thst being said- it ends up being a dry or competitive head game. I have now evolved past having male friends, fins solace in educating myself in thousands of divergent interests and travel. Sadly- many men have zero levels of freedom. So they become cemented into a garbage apathy and loneliness derangement. Thats the facts of the first 25 years ofnthe 21st century. 💀
Very poetic
What do you mean many men have zero levels of freedom???
This sucks. I’m 56 and have experienced the same thing. Most of my former male friends are just empty dried husks of who they used to be. IDK if they are beaten down by spousal pressure or what.
If you can’t find ANY time to carve out a few hours over the next six months on your schedule, to maintain a friendship, I guess we’re really not friends anymore. I have found out how to be 100% self reliant and do everything alone. Not by choice, but by necessity.
@@sc7453 Try to be more persistent w people
I'm Australian, 56 years old and the Mens Shed is probably the best thing EVER for men, especially as it focuses on middle aged + men, sometimes divorced, widowed etc. Loneliness is the biggest Killer in our modern society. I could talk for hours on this subject, but this video, even though the tip of the Ice Berg is straight to the point, and I am grateful. Love Your Work!
I'm thinking some "women's rights" activists will start protesting soon, gain entry, and ruin it for men.
An acquaintance is someone you have a beer with at the bar. A friend is the one that rings you up to invite you to the bar. One is happy to see you, the other makes the effort to hang out with you
My story; was a social butterfly and had a best friend. Was ghosted by best friend after 2 years of daily meeting & all social network all cared about just dating not me. As a man why invest in male friendships? At least women give you something before ghosting. Get a dog guys
What sad is his how often if you leave you job. You realize that those friends never talk to you again
I moved to a new place a few years ago to be near my dad who was ill. He’s better now but I can’t afford to leave. I was diagnosed autistic in 2020 and I find making friends very difficult; when I was younger it wasn’t so hard because I grew up in a small village and went to the village school where everyone knew everyone, but as I’ve got older it’s got harder and harder. I started a band in my 20s and gained a lot of friends in the local music scene, but when the band fell apart the friends disappeared. My gf is also autistic and isn’t very supportive, so I started seeing a therapist but her prices got too high and I can’t afford it anymore. I work at a university but there’s no opportunity for socialising and so I’ll often go for days without talking to anyone. The loneliness is destroying me. I have developed a painkiller addiction and can only sleep properly when I take powerful sleeping tablets. I don’t see anything changing in the future. When I was in my teens I had friends all around me and all I ever wanted was for them to be around for the whole of my life.
I believe that people in big cities are lonelier.
It's full of people that are trying to chase their own dream and you can easily get lost in the mass. It's full of selfishness and superficial relationships.
People don't care about each other.
You can live in a apartment building for twenty years without knowing who your upstairs neighbour is. Hell, they can even die in there and you will first notice after three months when the hallway starts to smell.
Community is key if you want to produce a healthy human being. And big cities are lacking it.
Then on the other hand there is also the Stepford routine of toxic cliques you can find everywhere, especially in rural idylls, offices and backwaters. The basic problem we have is competition I would agree.
@@billyliar1614 Can you elaborate on the last sentence you wrote?
@@Braaaaaaa Not much to say. We live in a culture, especially in the US/Uk, which fosters competition. We are little consumer/producer units competing for status and resources and that doesn't really change when you move out of the city - something people normally are only able to do when they've gathered sufficient resources - but rather you are made more painfully aware of your status within the group. Isolation is to some extent a function of inequality - there are plenty of social cliques living in the big city too, not everybody is isolated. There is a big difference between 'community' and cliquishness and the fundamental basis of our society doesn't change, which is competition. It can be even worse in small insular communities for those excluded from the group . In the big city one may be atomised, but there is a liberty within that. Competition leads to distrust , which leads to isolation. Society places men under more intense pressure to compete with one another to join 'the club' and to meet conventional expectations of success, for women beyond childbirth it tends to be more optional. Women don't compete with one another to the same degree for career success and tend to form stronger social collectives, whether they're in the top club or not. OK, that was actually saying quite a bit , apologies :)
I live in a pretty small town and its lonely for a different reason. Just not a lot of people around, and in the modern age people (even rural people) just kind of chill inside or on their phone. When theyre not working of course. But at least its quiet and peaceful. Feeling lonely in a big city is different, for the reasons you described. Youre surrounded by people- who dont give a fuck about anything but themselves.
@@billyliar1614 Do you believe that competition is a social construct or a natural part of us?
There's probably a better model out there than what we have right now. We are on the other probably living in the richest era ever.
I believe that competition is a natural part of us and it can make you become a better version of yourself. It encourages growth and I believe that we as humans need that in life. Maybe not this hyperinflated growth that our western society is pushing, but a feeling of betterment.
Unfortunately a lot of people get left behind, because they deny to participate in the rat race. And isolation usually kicks in shortly after, which is not a healthy way to live your life.
I believe that buying into the rat race is a lot healthier, than the isolation route. You're at least not gonna suffer alone. I believe that a lot of life is suffering, but chosing to suffer with others is a better option if you ask me.
Sorry for the long reply 😅
The "face to face" vs "shoulder to shoulder" topic was interesting. What if it's a subconscious side effect from centuries of warfare. If we're "face to face" we're enemies, but if we're "shoulder to shoulder" we're allies. Just an idea.
I believe that's the idea. That's why he mentioned the increase in cortisol when men speak face to face. Part of the fight or flight response.
3 key reasons i hypothesize
1 men are naturally a little bit more of a loner than women to our own detriment
2 men are fear of coming off as weak an needy to other men admitting the longing for plutonic legitimate male comradery is often seen as weakness especially if your no longer a boy / teenager
3 men fear incurring homosexual misunderstanding, or any such awkwardness as overwhelmingly most friendless men are heterosexual or making friends with the wrong crowd (criminal. religious extremist, politically radical, frienemies/ opportunistic weirdos/sick-perverts or jus plain immature men an so on an so fourth.)
Nope! It is cultural. This is a problem of the west. It is not a man thing. It is a western thing.
yeah a lot of Men don't empathize with each other and have only learned to value humor in friendships rather then integrity and loyalty. This isn't necessarily their fault, its the fault of their family, their fathers and mothers. It goes back man. Not everyone has the capacity to understand the importance, when they live in a world that praises materalistic gain over deep principles and community that tie us together. We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies. If it was a society we would be more closer, not as distant as we are now. Technology has evolved to further distract and divide us, to the benefit of the elite few.
@@createcontent4me-dx8ly “We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies.”
Epic, well said
Honestly, every GD day is so packed & busy, I truly wouldn't know where to find the energy + time to make that happen.
Just watched the full episode. Great and interesting conversation, covers a lot of ground. I have 4 brothers and 4 nephews and all of them could relate to a lot of the issues raised. Men need to Keep connecting, open up to eachother more and talk and support eachother.
Thank God you have them and you can be friends with them. Thise who are only child…
Friendships die because a lot of men don't make any effort to actually maintain friendships. They put everything and anything before their friendships. I've had many friends over the years that I lost contact with because they wouldn't put any effort towards the friendship. Once I stopped calling or texting them, I never heard from them again.
I recently started driving to work. It’s very isolating.
I can’t wait to go back to taking the train. My day felt so much more full.
Imagine the profundity of shoulder to shoulder ; get the right amount of individuals and a circle will form.
Beloved ones Thank you for sharing your stories about friendship connections.
This is very relatable to me. I am 49 years old, have gone through two failed marriages, and have two children, one of whom has been estranged from me.
My daughter and I have a wonderful relationship.
I am content being the best stay-at-home, full-time dad I can be, despite my personal struggles.
I find socializing challenging due to my neurodivergence.
I miss having conversations with people who understand me and do not perceive me as an antisocial, unproductive, or lazy individual.
In essence, I am the complete opposite of how they view themselves.
Enjoying solitude is not unusual; it is a movement that promotes mental well-being.
A true friend feels like being in the room with your self, hopefully you love your self.
Profoundly simple yet powerful sentiment.
Its called picking up the phone to catch up once per month. Get off messaging and talk properly.
Some people don't believe in phone calls lol
They dont answer the phone. Ever. People are addicted to texting. Even if they are dying from loneliness. Only my parents generation understand what is a real friendship and are able to maintain life long friendships. They talk on the phone. Creepy loners dont talk on the phone.
Oh oh, i feel all those things
@@delaslight You have a point that I just do not understand. Many people that I know hate to talk on the phone. I do not get it. Traffic is terrible where I live in the Washington DC metro area. I do not understand why so many people are adverse to picking up the phone to keep in touch with friends.
The art of conversation has been lost. Most prefer texting. A sad tragedy. 😎🎭✌️
I thought after making some new friends would help me get out of the loneliness and depression, but still I feel that void inside. Even when surrounded by people that care about me, I still feel isolated.
Same but I think its because we lack purpose. I coached kids track and field once and was the happiest I've ever been while watching the kids realize they can do difficult things, then when the season ended, back to the void.
Do those friends share similar values and goals.
That “void” was put there intentionally by God and can only be filled by Jesus!!! Surrender to Him. Today! 🙂✝️❤️✝️🌅
Its true. Jesus Christ is the creator and I felt the same void before I was in a restored relationship with him. Through faith in His blood he shed on the cross for humanity
Same. Only time I feel ok is when I’m immersed in projects. Was painting my basement and felt amazing. Purpose is lacking. I’m 46 with no kids.
This rings a bell with me. I had one friend from high School. Our wives became friends and they would schedule all our events. My friends wife passed away and we don’t hang out anymore. Covid lockdown really affected me. My community was my coworkers. I worked with many of them from 10 to 25 years. Covid hits, Corporate decides it is cheaper to have everybody work from home. I protested and tried going into the office but nobody returned. I self medicated with alcohol, still do really. My family relocated to get away from oppressive laws. Still trying to meet new people. Right now my friends are my projects. I have no friends.
if you have hobbies then find groups of men that do said hobbies, if not find new hobbies you might like and join a group that does it, the problem is you have to break the bad habit of going to work and then going to or staying home.
Sometimes after work I drive to a store and sit in the parking lot because im not ready for the day to be done and go home and be alone.
I do the same thing sometimes
You meet people who are good from far, but are far from good.
That's a Monet. Looks good from afar, but chaos up close.
Precisely. The majority.
Same boat....I Emigrated to Sydney, got one friend and he was through work! Much older than me too. There's no places people go to hang out or meet up, there's no real traditional pubs or places to go. Everyone just lives in their own bubble. I'm glad I brought my wife otherwise I probably would never have survived here, due to lonliness. Only time I get to socialise is my old mate back in the UK who I xbox with every Sunday morning. It seems modern society has been built to keep people apart and there seems to be no incentive for people to want to make new friends.
New
years ago i made a conscious/part unconscious decision to not get close to anyone anymore. i have friends, but it's casual, intermittent, and kept at arms reach. do i miss having a "brother-like" connection to a friend? sure, but my experience is that you cannot fully trust anyone and the risk is not worth it.
Pain makes you stronger. Hiding from it isn't healthy.
@@carlyellison8498 on one hand i agree. on the other, ive experienced such acute pain and stress from relationships (both plutonic and romantic) that, in spite of my best efforts to care for my health, i figure my odds of having a stroke, coronary, or cancer have increased greatly. as humans, we are flawed and giving that beautiful unconditional trust that is the benchmark of a "deeper friendship" is simply to much health risk IMO. i am a 51yo, married father of two...i have much love in my life, but battle scarred wisdom will get me a better chance at some form of inner peace before its done.
Same thing with women. I was betrayed by some female friends. I dont have many friends anymore. And i dont insist. Too many betrayals in recent years. When i was younger i was proud of myself for having good friends and for being a good friend. That was part of my identity. But now…
Yes it's true you can't trust anyone. And in the end they all.let you down. But then that negative cancels itself out. You go in "knowing how it works" and accept it for what it is...
@@successsystem2468 i can grasp that fine, youre right -but it's still not worth it to me, personally. i think on some level, many of us are perpetually heartbroken because we wanted (and expected) more from humanity -heart and honor among other traits. of course, that's not what we are. but alas, not to worry -it'll all be over soon enough. limping to the finish line....
Thank you for this video
“I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12. Jesus, does anyone?”
I really do miss my wolfpack from when I was a kid. There was the funny guy, the tough guy, the sensitive guy, the crazy guy. And all accepted each other for who we were. Parents couldn't get us to rat each other out. Girls couldn't divide our loyalty. If you messed with one of us, you messed with all of us. We'd have gone to the ends of the earth for each other. Then the years passed and we had to grow up and be responsible young men so we could be good husbands and fathers. And barely ever see each other again. And the only relationships that are not conditional in our new adult lives are the relationships with our kids. Everyone else only wants us for our utility. They don't want us for who we are.
Yes the beauty of that quote and that film is that girls still haven't fully intruded so your friendship with your 11 and 12 year old friends is extensive and fulfilling 😢
Unless the courts deny access to your child. Trust me you don't want that pain.
@@blueglassog3600 I'm truly sorry if that has happened to you. I have a friend who had that happen to him. It was awhile ago so now he has grandchildren he never gets to see. In this case, it's now mostly because his ex took his family to another part of the country and my friend is living below the poverty line. It's friggin sad, man.
@@RooDawson I am determined to change the narrative and the story. It's not helpful to me or TH-cam to keep dragging it back up.
Work in progress...
Exact quote I was thinking of.
My workplace has banned friendships between colleagues. Workplaces these days have become totalitarian, my way or the highway (you signed the contract blah blah).
😮😮😮😮 thats so stupid!!! I would change my job
@@delaslight They all seem to have these "rules" these days. I'd like to see them enforce them though! 😅
@@lundswedenit is really interesting. From jobs to apartment leases, every industry seems to have identical contracts or terms for their industry. No competition at all. Makes you feel like there is something larger pulling the strings.
3 great friends that’s all I need social media is killing it all everything is fake
In my last relationship my gf always made fun of me for not having any friends. I had girl friends but no guy friends. I never talked about the girls. The day i made my first guy friend in years she became very jealous that we hungout out a lot and never wanted him around.
That was fascinating! Thanks 💜
This breaks my heart. EVERYONE has gifts and talents that they have to offer. It might take some time or help to figure it out, but we do.
I have one left, i thought that i had 3 close friends, but covid put a stop to that. 2 lost their minds an went in the rabbit hole, and started shit talking and disrespecting me because of my pragmatic view of the situation. The one i have left i have known since i was 4 years old, he is like a brother. we meet up 7-8 times a year.
Covid and Trump both combined in a deadly way. At least one third of the country for a time was sucked down Trump's dystopian view of what America should be. Based on some comments online, I suspect that some of the people who voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020 have since decided that their vote(s) was/were a major mistake after January 6th. I live in hope that they have seen the light and will not vote for Trump again in 2024.
Not just men on the side by side thing. Neurodivergent folks aren't into the whole eye contact thing either.
Thank you, I was starting to think the something was wrong because I'm a woman and I prefer the side by side thing
No one needs to be lonely.
If we can find our purpose whatever that is, then we do not need to be valued by others.
The best friends are not people we need or who need us but people who enjoy being with one another (Aristotle) not just those who have utility.
So the key is to find purpose before finding friends
When you mentioned about the need for men to be shoulder to shoulder and do stuff together, including fixing things, it reminded me of what I read in ‘It’s Good to be a Man’ by Michael Foster and Bnonn Tennant. They discuss how up until recently, most male friendships are formed by and involved with being “on mission”. They write from a Christian point of view, and I think this speaks volumes about male relationships. Men aren’t wired to always sit around talking with each other. They want to do things, improve skills, work together to achieve common goals etc. In decades gone by a lot of this would be part and parcel with attending a church community where there are a shared set of values and purpose. Without this, men don’t really know what to do.
Personally the effect of alcohol on human behavior and relationships, and conversely the lack thereof, was something I was not prepared for, in my neck of the woods. I had a lot of friends older, younger, some very close friends. Before h.s. was half over most really get into drinking beer & alcohol, has to be part of every activity, fishing, playing pool , everything from age 14 til death. I do have an occasional beer, but it's not my life. Without it ruling my life like basically everyone I know, loneliness is all I know from age 16 to 49. He spoke here another time with Daniel Amen i think, how people act like something is wrong with you if you say "not tonight", for example, you have to navigate the language because if you say, " I don't drink" its like a death sentence for the most part
The fact that boys nowadays have to go looking for this answer is a problem. I think most of us here have been searching for answers for the past years, and there are some boys/men who are still lost. A purpose, guidance, and feeling of worth is what we lack. It isn't enough to have male role models via the internet.
And i say that as someone who is basically doing none of those things
I’m 54 now and had around 8 close friends up to 44 then they got married etc. still got 2 close friends from that group I still message and go drinks with. Moral of the story don’t lose contact with friends for a woman because you could end up lonely and it’s selfish
In my case I had made friends in school. It is hard to make friends after school. The best friends you will have are the ones who are in a similar boat as you. Being an incel and single I've had to get used to doing things by myself like going to the movies, eating out etc. The friends I had made I lost because they got married. The woman typically wants to put an end to the male friendships they have. We only should be friends with other married people. The guy has to put up with it because he is getting laid sometimes. The women go into the phase of Baby Rabies and they start cranking out kids. I could say the grass is greener over there or I can say that in my case that all my time and money are my own. I don't have to put up with the drama that women bring. I have a great credit score compared to a lot of other people and enough money to live on and very little debt. Those facts bring me a lot of peace.
Making friends is extremely easy when you're younger, and extremely harder the older you get. The real world is tough and people are selfish because society makes you that way, especially in the US. Friends usually cost money, and you have to trust that person won't screw you over if they get a chance. I'd suggest having 2 close friends and then having a good standing with multiple acquaintances, so your network is strong.
The late WWE wrestler Shad Gaspard’s wife said at his induction, paraphrasing “Women are known for who they are. Men are known for what they do.” We have to provide something. Chris Rock spoke on this.
Finished highschool with 1 close friend. Friendship lasted a few more years untill i had a fallout with my mother and my friend took her side , now 2 years later hes surprised the hell out of me by sending me happy birthday wishes . Im waiting for the weather to warm up then im dragging him out to a park so we can talk shoulder to shoulder and catch up
what is a friend?
Some one faithful there’s nothing like a faithful friend but finding one is like finding gold not easy at all.
@@BlessedbetheLord so what is the societal definition?
I don’t even try to make friends bc I actually enjoy being alone. I’ve been betrayed by those closest to me so I have a hard time trusting anyone or wanting to.
Making fun of each other, so you dont get bored.
Some that is taken with grain of salt, then you have a good laugha bout it because you know it was fun.
not real thing, because you donmt take yourself seriously.
that you dress like somthing and then you make laugh about it. Some polite prank, but with empathy.
@@Rey23nolds be gentle to yourself and to others, people do bad things and they also do good things, take good, reject bad with love but decisively
Thanks for sharing this.
Once men get married, they tend to disappear into that bubble. Marriage has become very insular in modern times, where it used to be more of a community. I remember my grandparents always had people from the neighborhood coming by and also extended families tended to live close by. Now we barely know the people next door in many cases and live hours away from extended family. I've also noticed few men have interests or hobbies outside of their job and watching TV when they get home. Outside interests are a great way to meet friends-I've played in bands for years and met some great guys that way.
Absolutely. Being used by your employer, living in splendid isolation with your spouse, don't speak to the neighbours next-door etc. Joining clubs helps if you've got the energy and your wife doesn't play up too much accusing you of seeing a girlfriend
I've been going with the same three fellows to watch the football team we support for 30 years. We have a laugh, take the piss out of each other, discuss all sorts of subjects. I very rarely see any of them in between the matches and at times, when I was skint, almost dropped out going but boy am I glad I kept it going because they feel like my brothers now. The football used to be the reason, now its the excuse. P.S. I have a fabulous wife who has never ever given me a hard time for going out, be it to football or the pub.
Never seen any of your videos I don’t know either of you but what a fantastic video this really broke my heart and I can relate. as a human being we all have these issues in one form or another we are much more connected to one another then we might know or understand. Love and faith are so important in our lives just my personal opinion, loving something or someone and faith in God or whatever it might be for the individual.
Some of the most infuriating stories I've read regarding suicide are the ones when the eulogy is being done and the religious figure they *hired* with their own money then goes on a rant about how suicide is a sin and that the dead person is rightfully in Hell, etc. I've seen this in mostly Catholic context but I'm sure it happens in other circumstances as well. Religion is one of the reasons shame is prevalent with this topic.
Damn those religious figures. As if they KNOW.
Eh, the person who committed suicide was in hell while alive and presumably nobody cared so why should they expect to care now?
Catholicism is fucked
Thank God for this. I had to retire from work due to ill health 25 years ago. I'm really bad at keeping in touch with people and I've moved house all over the country 23 times. It also doesn't help that I'm Autistic. At 69 I don't have a friend and it's been that way for over 20 years. I thought it was just me.
You are definately not THAT autistic. Ditch the useless titles.
Moving house wouldn't have helped - why did you do that ?
@@billyliar1614 for work
The shoulder to shoulder thing is real...some of the realest conversations I've ever had was while driving or sitting at a bar or walking/hiking/running
I haven’t had a friend since 2014. I used to have 3-4 good male friends as a teen and into my early 20’s but once I moved to another state, I never made a friend, and the old friendships fell off as we never saw each other and lived 20 hours away.
It’s probably the thing I miss the most, having other guys who share similar experiences and interests.
my whole experience of school was feminist teachers telling all the boys how worthless and unwanted we were to society. I found that I had a community at the airport where I was doing my pilots licence, I found a community at the cadets, if I only went to school I probably wouldn't be here now, the teachers made my life hell at school and dropping out of highschool felt like being cured of a disease and was the happiest day of my life.
Are you sure they weren't recounting statistics like men kill more men in society? Women are more likely to be killed by a man? That men subject female bodies to overkill? Those are established statistics. Was it things like that?
There are many truths about the gynocentric school systems and their abuse towards boys. Feminism has poisoned generations of women into believing the division of family and mistreatment of men and boys benifits women.
Damn thats crazy. Those teachers probably thought that because they had bad experiences with men in their life. And i dont mean it was necessarily some man in her life that hurt her. But a lot of women just dont know how to communicate with the men in their lives. But taking it out on school kids who youre supposed to be helping is just dark.
68. Male. Married 43 years.
Had a friend for 50 years. He ‘divorced’ our friendship because my views about the Bible have changed.
Since I retired, all the people I was ‘close’ to have ‘moved on’.
My friends now are my siblings (many), my 4 grandchildren and my youngest son.
My wife could care less about me. Saddens me.
This life is very temporary.
God and heaven awaits.
i am 38 yo.
and i made 5 wonderful friendships during these past 7 years (when my sons were born). lads i did not know before. we go to the woods and make campfires. we talk and cry. we celebrate, complain, have each others back.
the friend from my childhood and youth died out (3 exeptions).
i made friends as an adult. and it‘s such a good thing it happened. ❤❤❤❤
i am not a person who is very social and in need of constant human interaction. what i seek is deprh, honesty, voulnarability, strenght, wisdom, humor.
*"How do I make friends?" Those are genuinely the saddest words I have heard in a while.*
Feminism is what caused that and this guest is nothing but a male feminist who was sent by feminists to do damage control. Because the problems of what they have done started to backfire
You don't, it happens all by itself when you're around someone you talk to and otherwise get along with.
That doesn't mean they're lifelong, most friendships are temporary.
@@devilsoffspring5519 You are right that most friendships are temporary, they could be even 15 years but most people move and change places. Also, that may be a bit more challenging with people who live in big cities because at some point people get married. and after some time they tend to move a bit outside the city, but can you still keep the connection by putting some effort.
I moved to a new state 10 yrs ago. Haven't made any new friends.
Same here
I moved to europe 18 years ago. Despite my active effort to build friendships, i only made temporary friendships. I also lost the old ones. My best friends are my parents. Thank god for them.
@@tylerdurden5359 I would ask, without being facetious, “what have you done to make friends?”. Do you have hobbies? What are you passionate about? Are you doing anything besides working, eating, sleeping? It is much easier if you have something you are passionate about and connect with others who share your passion. It can be anything, golf, knitting, model airplanes, Formula One, football, watching trains, anything. Put yourself out there, it works. Apologies if that sounds pedantic or overly simplified.
@@PappiHappy ah yes, nothing like being surrounded by people to drive home the awkward feeling of not knowing anyone.
@@tylerdurden5359 I’m not really clear on your point. How else would one make a new friend? Every new friend, by definition, starts out a stranger. You might go in not knowing anyone, but the idea is you come out knowing at least one other person. That’s kind of how making new friends works.
If you destroy all male only spaces don’t be surprised when they don’t make friends.
Wow this is crazy and sad to hear. I am in my 40s, and I started making friends at 4 years old in the sandbox (actually literally) and I still meet some of them on an almost weekly basis and others irregularly. The "last" friends I made were like just a year ago at work and after they left we still meet up for lunches. I always found it really easy to make new friends and also stay in contact with them and I just assumed this was how it is for everybody. And no, I am not super rich and they want to play at my villa, I am not a celebrity or anything, I am just a normal guy. I just really really like people and relationships mean everything to me, having fun together and doing this. I put a lot of effort into it. Hearing about these stories makes me sad as hell, I really hope you, if you are lonely and reading this, can get out there and make friends. There is nothing more valuable.
This is very much the same for myself. This is such a broad topic to cover and everyones situation is different, female or male. However in current society overall the 'statistics' must indicate how challenging it is for men.
I’m 49, no actual sincere friends and it’s driving me insane. My wife doesn’t understand my pain
"We're all just walking each other home" - Ram Dass
❤️
After decades of having what I thought were friends, I came to the understanding that I haven't had a real friend since I was a child. For a man, no other man will come to your rescue, if there is any chance it will negatively affect them. Some guys will say that their friend would back them up in a fight but the reality is that the person they think is their friend is doing it out of self interest because they enjoy fighting
Isn't that what a friend is? Another person whose interests happen to align with our own? Actually asking. I do agree though, if I understand what you're saying, that every interaction is a transaction. What I'm trying to say is that, at heart, we are all selfish.
@@hapster22 I have associates who I share the same common interest with. I find that only sharing a common interest and nothing more, benefits me the most. So yes, I am more selfish now than I have ever been. I am alone more but not more lonely
This happens in the west. In other cultures people have real friends. I noticed this when i moved to europe.
I think western culture is weird and unnatural generally
So true. I wqs thinking about this recently, i dont feel comfortable asking my friend if they wanna go for a coffee etc. so usually I wait until something breaks and then ill ask if snyone is free to help me. I still feel a cheeky qsking that but sometimes youve gotta do it
This was a tough listen. I cut my former best friend from my life. He was a parasite snd I got sick of him and his family using me. I really don’t have any friends or family to speak to. Mental illness runs in my family. I have depression issues but hide it very well. My sister self deleted about 10 years ago.
I went four days without speaking to anyone. Four. Days.
The thing of it was, I was out skiing every day.
I turned on my music, and just went through the singles line.
Skied all morning, went home to my cat.
And I was happy!!
The point about not being face to face to open up to one another .. it’s a technique that’s been used in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy for years as what they do is put their client “on the couch”. The therapist would at an angle from the client and they wouldn’t be looking straight at each other. It helps you to open up and talk about things you wouldn’t normally do so face to face