This is really smart. Rather than it being specifically a tech, I think this idea is a really good way of using your safer walking movement that people haven't really been doing before, but with a focus on its use after a dash back
This makes spacing as Marth so much better. Imagine dash back canceling into Forward Smash or Forward tilt... or basically any move when the opponent tries to run at you. Heck yeah! Also the dash back cancel -> shield -> Dolphin Slash could be nuts.
Marths initial dash doesn’t auto-space very well, it’ll have roughly similar implications to slingshots for him. It will actually work best for getting grabs and setting up whiff punishes, especially on landing
I've been doing this, or a variation of this for literal years ... I thought the dash back buffered turn around was just common practice by now to be honest, I do it every single game I play, I'm very used to it.
after you showed me this tech at GOML (thanks for that despite not being a great player myself btw!) i realized that a funny gimmicky way to use this is having an up special that cant be reversed normally (ridley's wing blitz is the only one that comes to mind but im sure there are others) to be reversed, what makes this funny for ridley is that run back wing blitz is now a "better" option because his forward angle is a lot better to hit grounded opponents with than his back angle. Its not really an important application but its a really cool for clipping at least
It’s not really new, but having a name is always nice to be able to simplify breakdowns. I’ve used this a lot for a long time as Joker and Cloud both don’t gain much from dash and pivot grabs compared to standard, and often just have more lag, so if the grabs aren’t too necessary I’ll use this or dash walk to get standard Also I’ve seen people calling it useless, mostly for the FGC characters, but this does have more implications for them. Because of auto turn, they can do a similar thing with dash forward and get a standing grab facing forward. This also helps with tracking opponents in the air, mostly with the shield implications (excluding Kazuya). Being able to dash back and have auto turn kick in allows for dash back to be non-committal against landing aerials and cross ups
can also add a simpler, to me, method of doing it is: dash back, push stick opposite upper corner. keep it there a little (2 frames) before holding right or whatever else you want
Can comfirm this works with the Input integrity adapter. This movement option is actually EXTREMLY close to wavedashing imo. You can do anything in any direction out of a dash with this.
@@YouALLStop Marth has been A tier since 2019, there's just only like two decent marth players in the entire world and one of them basically mains random (Ignaize and Rizeasu).
it's a good showcase of this movement, and it's nice to have a name. I've been doing this for a long time, due to using up to walk since I started Ultimate, but incorporating shield instead of an attack is something I'll lab out. It's great to see people still advancing their play in this game.
Seems like instead of trying to do an entire half-circle, it’s a bit easier to do a quarter circle, go just a tiny bit further, and then hold it there. Thanks, now my Mii Brawler has a way to dash back into FMP without having to reliably Fortnite Flash while moving.
Love the video, I've actually been using this with mario for the last 4 months and it made me improve a lot! I also always found my pyra movement to be weird when I tried to move like this and now I know why xD (going to only use it for aerial drift control I guess)
this was my reaction to slingshot, playing Mega Man at a level above casual necessitates finding all sorts of ways to move and just assuming everyone else knows about it
Another way to do it is Flick the stick to dash (so it returns to neutral). During the end dash frames, put the stick straight up/down and slightly adjust it right or left. Pretty easy Time wise, guarantes you wont input a smash or a ftlit instead of a reverse uptilt/dtilt
as a Mayflash user, i will note, it actually can work! it not working originally is probably due to trying to roll the stick too quickly, but i am able to get it consistently with mayflash + regular gcc.
Lol this is cool. I learned how to do RAR bairs the "wrong" way. >, A. The input is tighter than the normal way with the jump trigger and c stick. The cool thing about this way is you can RAR any Aerial. A lot of characters nairs combo if you're backwards
I feel called out as a Robin main lol. Especially sad since her poor ground speed already means foxtrotting is essential for significant ground movement outside of the occasional microspacing you can use walking for.
This doesn't alter the frame data of dashes so it isn't a cancel. Reverse cstick up/dtilt make this less useful too unfortunately. This would be an cool find early in Ult's lifespan tho. You'll get cleaner execution regardless of adapter if you do a dash and half circle motion but stop at 45 degrees opposite of the direction you dashed in as well. You could even dash and go straight for the opposite 45 degree angle.
I used to do that but with a half downward motion, to dash back instant down tilt (Ridley) or down smash (Sephiroth). With the latter, works even better using A+B to input the smash attack
I've always hate people that complains about ultimate having no tech early on. Like did smash 4 pivot cancel got used before it's last few years? No I don't remember people using it regularly. And when ultimate got more movement tech as time passed. People kept saying they were useless and all. Like slingshot who is basicly a buffered irj. But is honestly very fun to use regularly. It's still the only way to get faster actionable air speed. Since jumping forward cancel ground movement. But doesn't cancel the slingshot movement.
Thank you for this, I do want to express 1 concern w/M2 specifically, idk if it's just me but it's always felt like despite everything else, using ANY amount of dash back isn't great w/how the tail hurtbox extends itself out and lingers there, so avoiding that as much as possible would be nice
Ive been doing this and i thought ppl were doing this for awhile, its mainly just to compensate for the lack of ground moment in ultimate, if we still had perfect pivots we wouldn't need to do this.
3:58 this is just not true tho 😭 Wii fit benefits from bair oos, robin with one use of elwind gets up b oos, some fs set ups only send in front/back, some of pyra's fs dair oos only works when facing certain directions, etc etc
very true! I didn't mean to sound so absolute when i said 'always better'. but it most cases across the game, you want the option to grab your opponent OOS for example if possible.
I still wanna know how the cpu moves in one direction while spinning in circles over and over while at full momentum. It seems like it would be as useful as this tech. With the same principle, it can turn you around while in full walk speed.
Hm, you’ll have to take my word for it but I play on a Mayflash adapter and tried this out, and rolling my stick up after dashing gave me a turnaround walk every time. Unsure if this means I’m missing something, or if the third party adapters you tried were a bit different than mine. Either way, this is a pretty cool find, neat stuff!
You can still do the input but the amount of time for each input is delay weighted by the adapter you have may flash and pro wired are the worse but pro wired is sitting at 1.31 missing a frame/delay and may flash is 1.17f. But yeah official adapter or pro wireless are your best opts since those two sit at .33f and .45f lossless is .13f but they new ones are less than two mms seconds now and Idk how to convert mms to frames so I’m just using the chart the guy who made lossless.
Eitherway at the end of the day using pro wired means you want to torture yourself on someone’s monitor that doesn’t like your delay or ur skill like acola using pro weird for abt four months because he needed to get a new controller if I’m correct lol.
While I don’t play on lossless (I play on pro controller). I do play on it for melee so from my testing (which wasn’t much) I think it works pretty well so that’s that, but I may be wrong
Is this different results-wise from the regular dash walk input of using your c stick at the start of a dash animation, or does that work just as well?
Is this bufferable? I know some pretty good applications for gnw if so, especially running forward into a turnaround shield for back air. Also this just cancels the skid animation and not any of the inital dash right? Im just making sure lol
so happy i play melee abd have freedom of movement so i don’t have to rely on whack ass “dash back canceling” to have any type of nuance in neutral or micro spacing in my game
I’d like to see Joker making use of this tech. He has good whiff punishes already but can he dash back cancel into angled Ftilt or shield? Or is slingshot still good at supporting his air game?
There is a way faster way to do tilts out of dashback. GimR made a video on this, it's called buffered reverse tilts ( th-cam.com/video/GGKoaK48F9E/w-d-xo.html ).
@Seibrik Yeah that is true, though I feel like theres a lot more uses to brt compared to doing the turnaround, such as dashing back + downtilt to catch burst option like a da or grab, or just in neutral because it's faster (i.e. using steve up tilt because the hitbox starts behind him).
this is a method to remove risk from otherwise sensitive/risky inputs for the same thing. and its a bufferable input so its def starting at the end of your initial dash asap which is nice
The thing that’s so silly about ultimate is that in melee if u wanna cancel ur dash back u simply wavedash back or pivot back, while here u gotta do a whole moonwalk movement, it’s times like this where I wonder why people just don’t go play that game or P+ , cool tech tho I guess
This is really smart. Rather than it being specifically a tech, I think this idea is a really good way of using your safer walking movement that people haven't really been doing before, but with a focus on its use after a dash back
This makes spacing as Marth so much better. Imagine dash back canceling into Forward Smash or Forward tilt... or basically any move when the opponent tries to run at you. Heck yeah!
Also the dash back cancel -> shield -> Dolphin Slash could be nuts.
just watch mkleo marth in smash 4
Marths initial dash doesn’t auto-space very well, it’ll have roughly similar implications to slingshots for him. It will actually work best for getting grabs and setting up whiff punishes, especially on landing
Shh dont give out the Marth sauce
@@ashidothemadmanyeah I been doing this with marth for a minute
Soooo this isn’t a cancel...
No, dash back buffered walk
its a clickbait nothingburger video, smash 5 has no actual tech, dislike and move on
@@proutain they do but they're more caracter specific
@@proutainlove how he responds to every single comment except mine 🤣 who would’ve thought year 6 ultimate tech is literally just walking
@@Matt-hy9qjnot all tech is groundbreaking, no harm in posting a video about cool movement tech
I've been doing this, or a variation of this for literal years ... I thought the dash back buffered turn around was just common practice by now to be honest, I do it every single game I play, I'm very used to it.
after you showed me this tech at GOML (thanks for that despite not being a great player myself btw!) i realized that a funny gimmicky way to use this is having an up special that cant be reversed normally (ridley's wing blitz is the only one that comes to mind but im sure there are others) to be reversed, what makes this funny for ridley is that run back wing blitz is now a "better" option because his forward angle is a lot better to hit grounded opponents with than his back angle. Its not really an important application but its a really cool for clipping at least
Tekwizwa the Goml king
It’s not really new, but having a name is always nice to be able to simplify breakdowns. I’ve used this a lot for a long time as Joker and Cloud both don’t gain much from dash and pivot grabs compared to standard, and often just have more lag, so if the grabs aren’t too necessary I’ll use this or dash walk to get standard
Also I’ve seen people calling it useless, mostly for the FGC characters, but this does have more implications for them. Because of auto turn, they can do a similar thing with dash forward and get a standing grab facing forward. This also helps with tracking opponents in the air, mostly with the shield implications (excluding Kazuya). Being able to dash back and have auto turn kick in allows for dash back to be non-committal against landing aerials and cross ups
well to answer thumbnail, no its not new. but its a nice showcase!
can also add a simpler, to me, method of doing it is: dash back, push stick opposite upper corner. keep it there a little (2 frames) before holding right or whatever else you want
Ist this the tweek turnaround?
@@danielrivera6899 ive never heard of, but i dont watch alot of pro smash
its just one of the first things i got taught when i started playing
Can comfirm this works with the Input integrity adapter.
This movement option is actually EXTREMLY close to wavedashing imo.
You can do anything in any direction out of a dash with this.
this feels like the younger brother of the pivot on Smash 4
This might actually be huge for spacing characters + mid range burst situations
Marth is getting out of C tier by 2025
@@YouALLStop Marth has been A tier since 2019, there's just only like two decent marth players in the entire world and one of them basically mains random (Ignaize and Rizeasu).
it's a good showcase of this movement, and it's nice to have a name. I've been doing this for a long time, due to using up to walk since I started Ultimate, but incorporating shield instead of an attack is something I'll lab out. It's great to see people still advancing their play in this game.
Very interesting tech Love it Bro 🔥
Wow this looks good as fuck, nice find
Thank you!!
Seems like instead of trying to do an entire half-circle, it’s a bit easier to do a quarter circle, go just a tiny bit further, and then hold it there.
Thanks, now my Mii Brawler has a way to dash back into FMP without having to reliably Fortnite Flash while moving.
Literally what I’m thinking with brawler too
Love the video, I've actually been using this with mario for the last 4 months and it made me improve a lot! I also always found my pyra movement to be weird when I tried to move like this and now I know why xD (going to only use it for aerial drift control I guess)
Wow, this feels like a pretty fascinating piece of movement tech, some really cool new ways to incorporate attacks as well.
7:40 this also happens with Pyra’s regular dash walk - it’s very silly looking
Wow this is a tech?!?! Ive been moving like this for about a year now. Thanks for the confirmation. Its really good to use. - a Megaman main.
this was my reaction to slingshot, playing Mega Man at a level above casual necessitates finding all sorts of ways to move and just assuming everyone else knows about it
Another way to do it is Flick the stick to dash (so it returns to neutral).
During the end dash frames, put the stick straight up/down and slightly adjust it right or left.
Pretty easy Time wise, guarantes you wont input a smash or a ftlit instead of a reverse uptilt/dtilt
3:09 i'd say it's actually more similar to perfect pivoting in 64 and sm4sh than it is to wavedashing
you're still able to do this with tap jump on if you hold a c-stick input, bit of a clunky work around but it works
as a Mayflash user, i will note, it actually can work! it not working originally is probably due to trying to roll the stick too quickly, but i am able to get it consistently with mayflash + regular gcc.
Who says Ultimate has no movement tech? Yeah I know it’s not as crazy as Melee’s but stuff like this is awesome to see
Lol this is cool. I learned how to do RAR bairs the "wrong" way. >, A. The input is tighter than the normal way with the jump trigger and c stick. The cool thing about this way is you can RAR any Aerial. A lot of characters nairs combo if you're backwards
Finally, a sick AND practical tech in Ultimate. Will be checking this out and using it
Thank you!! ;_;
@@Seibrik nah mate we should be thankin' you for doin' the lord's work
I feel called out as a Robin main lol. Especially sad since her poor ground speed already means foxtrotting is essential for significant ground movement outside of the occasional microspacing you can use walking for.
Really great video and I've already been able to implement this in practice. Now to try in games. Thanks for the info sharing
TAP JUMPERS!!
Since you can't crouch to cancel a foxtrot, you can also use the OPPOSITE technique of down and rolling backwards to buffer the pivot
Nice tech! I will be using this from now on lol.
This doesn't alter the frame data of dashes so it isn't a cancel. Reverse cstick up/dtilt make this less useful too unfortunately. This would be an cool find early in Ult's lifespan tho. You'll get cleaner execution regardless of adapter if you do a dash and half circle motion but stop at 45 degrees opposite of the direction you dashed in as well. You could even dash and go straight for the opposite 45 degree angle.
This is so cool!! Definitely going to use this!
Great! Can't wait to never be able to use this as Ryu!
I already do microwalks for spacing out of dashing back thanks to auto turnaround, so this is completely useless "tech"
I used to do that but with a half downward motion, to dash back instant down tilt (Ridley) or down smash (Sephiroth).
With the latter, works even better using A+B to input the smash attack
mightve been patched to work on more adapters after video release but it works on the piranha 😱😱😱 adapter
how to perfect pivot in ultimate, basically
Man, even more tech that will be funky since I’ve been using tap jump since I first played smash
the upside down moonwalk input!!!
Nice discovery this is dope
You can do the same by just tapping crouch at the extent of your dash.... You can even dash cancel tilt by hitting crouch.
first ult tech im ever using
MOTION INPUT JUMPSCARE 😱😱😱
It's like an incredibly weird Moonwalk
I saw banham do this with Lucia a ton prior to his retirement, it helps a ton in a game that lacks micro spacing
Ice Climber know this since quite a while. We use that for desyincs
lmao did jakal dirty with the misspell
I've always hate people that complains about ultimate having no tech early on. Like did smash 4 pivot cancel got used before it's last few years? No I don't remember people using it regularly.
And when ultimate got more movement tech as time passed. People kept saying they were useless and all. Like slingshot who is basicly a buffered irj. But is honestly very fun to use regularly. It's still the only way to get faster actionable air speed. Since jumping forward cancel ground movement. But doesn't cancel the slingshot movement.
Thank you for this, I do want to express 1 concern w/M2 specifically, idk if it's just me but it's always felt like despite everything else, using ANY amount of dash back isn't great w/how the tail hurtbox extends itself out and lingers there, so avoiding that as much as possible would be nice
This is cool. I think I saw Sean the Falcon player do this a lot.
Lol this lowkey a meme and already exist
more powerful defensive options, exactly what this game needs
Ive been doing this and i thought ppl were doing this for awhile, its mainly just to compensate for the lack of ground moment in ultimate, if we still had perfect pivots we wouldn't need to do this.
Keep up the good work, Peter!
MY GOATTTTTT
we did it
Really dope vid I'm going to practice this and start using it in my gameplay
3:58 this is just not true tho 😭
Wii fit benefits from bair oos, robin with one use of elwind gets up b oos, some fs set ups only send in front/back, some of pyra's fs dair oos only works when facing certain directions, etc etc
Yeah "always" was too binary. Oh well.
very true! I didn't mean to sound so absolute when i said 'always better'. but it most cases across the game, you want the option to grab your opponent OOS for example if possible.
MoSMaje made a training drill tutorials and called this movement option a Tweek turnaround. im pretty sure thats wut this is.
holding up on the control stick is one easy thing i dont do enough lol
I still wanna know how the cpu moves in one direction while spinning in circles over and over while at full momentum. It seems like it would be as useful as this tech. With the same principle, it can turn you around while in full walk speed.
Its useful for joker so yes
Hm, you’ll have to take my word for it but I play on a Mayflash adapter and tried this out, and rolling my stick up after dashing gave me a turnaround walk every time. Unsure if this means I’m missing something, or if the third party adapters you tried were a bit different than mine. Either way, this is a pretty cool find, neat stuff!
noted! Still think everyone should at LEAST button check if they notice their competing on a third party and feel it out.
You can still do the input but the amount of time for each input is delay weighted by the adapter you have may flash and pro wired are the worse but pro wired is sitting at 1.31 missing a frame/delay and may flash is 1.17f. But yeah official adapter or pro wireless are your best opts since those two sit at .33f and .45f lossless is .13f but they new ones are less than two mms seconds now and Idk how to convert mms to frames so I’m just using the chart the guy who made lossless.
Eitherway at the end of the day using pro wired means you want to torture yourself on someone’s monitor that doesn’t like your delay or ur skill like acola using pro weird for abt four months because he needed to get a new controller if I’m correct lol.
This is very possibly on the mayflash adapter for me
"tap jump off"
rip marss
So an upside down Shakunetsu? If so, that's surprisingly simple!
This is just melle moonwalk input but if it went up instead
While I don’t play on lossless (I play on pro controller). I do play on it for melee so from my testing (which wasn’t much) I think it works pretty well so that’s that, but I may be wrong
Turn around taunt. Nice bonus finisher.
Def my favorite use case
link players have been accidentally doing the first half of this tech for reverse up tilt kills XD
Is this different results-wise from the regular dash walk input of using your c stick at the start of a dash animation, or does that work just as well?
Been doing this in the first week of the games release... say wah....
this reminds me of "the Ally" in smash 4 too
I only don't like that the name isn't accurate
otherwise
this foxtrot buffered pivot is a good option to have in mind
Tried this with my mayflash adapter and had no problems. But I overcloked my adapter so......
This reminds me of TANI step from smash 4
Is this bufferable? I know some pretty good applications for gnw if so, especially running forward into a turnaround shield for back air. Also this just cancels the skid animation and not any of the inital dash right? Im just making sure lol
Correct all bufferable
@@Seibrik Bet thank you :) Im p sure this also *should* make certain kirby combos easier which could be neat for them.
i fell like ive done this before
so happy i play melee abd have freedom of movement so i don’t have to rely on whack ass “dash back canceling” to have any type of nuance in neutral or micro spacing in my game
I’d like to see Joker making use of this tech. He has good whiff punishes already but can he dash back cancel into angled Ftilt or shield? Or is slingshot still good at supporting his air game?
isn't this just a perfect pivot?
i thought shield was frame 2
Frame 1!
There is a way faster way to do tilts out of dashback. GimR made a video on this, it's called buffered reverse tilts ( th-cam.com/video/GGKoaK48F9E/w-d-xo.html ).
I think there’s more value most of the time doing the turn around then evaluating the situation
Buffering speed has it’s place tho for sure
@Seibrik Yeah that is true, though I feel like theres a lot more uses to brt compared to doing the turnaround, such as dashing back + downtilt to catch burst option like a da or grab, or just in neutral because it's faster (i.e. using steve up tilt because the hitbox starts behind him).
Grace was right bro, this ain’t a “tech”. Quit farming content.
So this is essentially an easier/more consistent way to dash pivot? I'm not well versed in ultimate, you can dash pivot in ultimate already right?
this is a method to remove risk from otherwise sensitive/risky inputs for the same thing. and its a bufferable input so its def starting at the end of your initial dash asap which is nice
Cool
why didnt they just call it pivots bruh..... melee soul hurts
It’s not a cancel tho
What about fgc characters? Is this not possible with them?
Turn around: No
But converting dash back into walking is really powerful for them
I have a stupid question: how is this any different from the Tweek turnaround?
Easier/more consistent to achieve. He said he was gonna start using it this way
I was wondering this too. How does tweek input his do ya know?
The thing that’s so silly about ultimate is that in melee if u wanna cancel ur dash back u simply wavedash back or pivot back, while here u gotta do a whole moonwalk movement, it’s times like this where I wonder why people just don’t go play that game or P+ , cool tech tho I guess
or 64 or smash 4
It's so many frames...
im SO sorry...
I already do this
Bruh this is not new lol