Regarding the chaff, I picked up 1 gallon shop vac, keep it close to the roaster, when the roaster is cool, just pull the drawer out, stick the hose under the drum and hit it with the vac. To get rid of chaff in the roast, just hit it with a blower on the low setting or hair dryer while stirring the seeds in the basket. It's a little messy, but easy to blow out of the garage with a bigger blower. I'm finding very little chaff in my ground coffee with these extra steps. You'll like the way Kaleido works with Artisan: I have yet to use the tablet for anything other than a backup. Thanks for posting, enjoyed watching.
A small vacuum is a necessity to properly clean out the Mill City 500 gram chaff collector, the behmor, even the other smaller roasters i've used. It is handy for the work area but especially inside the roaster chaff area. I have noticed the Kaleido M2 does a really nice job of knocking off the chaff while in the drum BUT could do a better job of getting it all into the chaff tray. I end up either brushing or vacuuming the chaff box area as well as the tray after every roast. I wish the chaff tray had more capacity. I'm excited to roast on the Kaleido using artisan. Thanks for watching and for sharing craig.
Appreciate your thoughtful review as always, Mike! Hopefully I'll get my hands on one eventually because you've got me intrigued! The price point for these machines is nearly unbeatable. I appreciate your thoughts on the difficulty of the learning curve for a beginner. Folks like us often forget to put ourselves in beginner's shoes and while machines like this offer great control for us, they can be intimidating for beginners. But I feel like most machines will run into that problem: with more control comes a steeper learning curve. And of course, time spent with your backlog of excellent videos should help beginners a ton 😉
Thanks David. It really is an interesting roaster with lots of bells and whistles. I think the standard Kaleido tablet will be an easier transition for those who haven’t use artisan before. I’m a fan of the tablet. I wish it was bigger. Actually, I thought I saw a larger screen version announced overseas somewhere? From 7” to 8”??? Thanks for the kind words Favid. When do you expect your next wave of Colombians. Ever had a Hulia Sidra Cultivar?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab fresh Colombian harvests are expected to start landing Dec/Jan! I have had Sidra, super tasty. Also usually super expensive 🤣 Thankfully not Gesha expensive usually! Another "newish" cultivar that's hitting the mainstream to look out for is Sudan Rume. Very old variety that goes back even before Bourbon! Samples I've had were complex yet clean. Very expressive
I have put about 30 roasts now through my M10, and I have been very happy with it. I find the sweet spot for batch size for the M10 to be about 600-800g. It will go up to 1kg, but I found the roast at that capacity to be a little too inconsistent. I roast a lot of natural process beans, so I do have to clean out the chaff from around the drum once about every 10 roasts. Artisan is great, manual roast control is easy and responsive, but I cannot comment on PID auto-roasting since I haven't tried it yet. It is a serious investment, but I can output a batch every 15 minutes, so I only have to roast a couple hours a month to supply two families and my workplace (50+ staff) with beans.
Congrats on your roaster Andy. Great decision. I love your motive for roasting and I am glad to hear you are manual roasting. Auto Roasting can work with the Kaleido but it far from perfect. I think the same thing can be said with the Bullet. I have an M10 and roast plenty of 400 gram batches with no problems at all. I have also roasted 1 kilo batches and was amazed at the power of the roaster. I would love to hear more about your roasting and even see some of your profiles. Thanks for sharing your roasting journey, experience with the Kaleido, and for watching my video.
congrats on your new M6. The most challenging part of my experience with the Kaleido M2 was getting the roaster bluetooth to connect to artisan. Barrett at the Espress Outlet (kaleidoroasters.com/ ) helped me. I believe the manufacturer could do a better job of documenting everything about the roaster including the connection. Regardless, once it was connected I have had no issues since.
Good show of the roaster, Mike, I like it. It will have to wait, however, as I just got my used Gene Cafe, and it roasts really good too. Love your work, and I check in daily for new stuff. Thanks.
Thanks for the encouraging words Jeff. I’m glad you are having a great experience with the Gene Cafe. Yes, many more roasts with the M2. Enjoyed the experience enough that I bought an M10. That are great machines. Not perfect, but fully capable. I’m glad you enjoy my videos. Thanks for sharing!
Great stuff! M2 Pro arriving in a few days and looking forward to your Artisan videos. Like that most of your info is adaptable to multiple roasters because they explain the basics of roasting profiles. Thanks for the content.
Thanks for watching and sharing Larry. Congratulations on your new roaster! What roaster were you using before the M2? I’m glad you noticed I intentionally try to provide info that can be applied to a broad range of roasting devices. Thanks for encouraging words!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I have been roasting for about 20 years starting with an air popper and for most of that time a Behmore. I decided to improve and move to specialty coffees and learn roast profiles to bring out the bean characteristics. Your content is just what is needed. Thanks!
That's a cool story. Yea, the M2 will be a different experience but the sky is the limit now. Be patient and take time to read the manual. It is not the greatest when it comes to it's presentation but learn the operational side of the machine and then you can focus on roasting some great coffee. You may want to consider seasoning the roaster and using those roasts to get a feel for how the roaster performs. ALWAYS empty your chaff tray after every roast.
Thanks for the great content. I am looking at the Kalideo M6, Bullet R2 pro, and Mill Cities MCR500. What would be your choice if you were purchasing one today?
Hi Scott. It depends on space, roasting capacity, and budget. All 3 are good choices. I think the Mill City is a little expensive. What type of roasting were you planning? Hobby or to sell coffee?
Looking forward to your future videos on this! I have the older version (m2 pro) coming from a Hive. Definitely a learning curve, for sure, but I'm really happy with it along with the potential that it offers. Very timely that you just gone one as well (I got the hive after seeing your video on it)
Thanks for being a subscriber and watching my videos Carlo. Congrats on your roasting Journey. That's pretty cool. Did you enjoy the hive? What caused you to make the jump to the M2?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Apart from the upgrade bug, we do consume a lot of coffee in the household. Using the hive, I need to roast almost every day to every other day to keep up with our use, factoring in resting the beans as well. I also do the Hive without any data/probes so I wanted to understand a bit more about the roasting process beyond doing it by just feel. I like being able to roast back to back as well with the M2. I just couldn't do it with the hive because of my messed up wrists.
Nice video, Mike! Watching you control things with the control pad, makes me really want to start using the Bullet in that same fashion. I am quite sure it will make my roasting experience, much simpler and much more enjoyable, although it’s a lot of fun now. It’s good to see you having a lot of fun with this, and I’m definitely looking forward to your next video!
Hi Lou. the interesting part of this experience is learning how this machine roasts differently and then making adjustments to my approach. Right now I'm trying to determine how much airflow i really need with this machine. The tablet runs the machine, even in the manual mode. It is kind of like your round display where you control temp, air, and drum except they also have the graph and calculations as well.
Good video. Thanks Mike. Do you think for someone new to roasting it would be a good idea to pick a bean, say Guatemala Huehuetenango, and just practice roasting that bean using different profiles and development times? Just wondering if that would speed up the learning curve. For me, I bought small quantities of a bunch of different beans from different vendors and have been roasting those but maybe it’s better to stick with a single bean type. That said, I do like having variety in the cup.
I was considering this Kaleido or a Santoker roaster for home. I am hoping to be able to go between training and work where your typical steel double walled drums are used, to a home roaster and to apply the knowledge I've acquired. And vice versa, i would like to be able to sample a coffee and take as much as i can from the ideal profile ive come uppn and apply it a more classic production roaster. The small home santoker machine has this very thick drum which helps to approximate the heat retention of the typical drum roaster. I have heard that these kaleidos use some kind of a cage as opposed to thick walled drums? So I'm not certain if it is the best home solution for my stated purposes? I would like to be able to roast reasonably light and have vibrant acidity, with sweetness and complexity of flavor and aromatics. I guess im wondering if one of the kaleidos is sufficient for my purposes and my preferences, as I do like that it is avaialble from espresso outlet, where as the santoker is a Chinese machine where one must purchase via aliexpress, and the customer support for an American may be inadequate. I should state that I have acquired a lot of roasting preliminary knowledge but am in my infancy when it comes to number of roasts.
Hello Julius, thanks for being a subscriber. Looks like you've watch Charlie's video about the Santoker roaster. He seemed to emphasize the thick steel drum. While i have had no personal experience roasting on the Santoker yet, I have roasted on my Mill City 500 gram which has a heavy steel drum. I have experienced the difference between roasting with hot air, IR heat, Natural Gas, and propane. I have also experienced the difference roasting on a solid steel drum compared to a cage. I share this because I think my experience on these different types of roasters has given me the context to answer your question. The Santoker seems like an interesting roaster and might be a great option. I have included my thoughts based on your comments and the little bit i have either read online or seen in videos. First, the Kaleido 2nd generation "sealed" roasters use a stainess steel drum. It is fairly heavy weight, but not as heavy as my Mill City. It does have "slits" in the drum and the Santoker does as well so chaff can fall out and some IR light can pass through onto the beans. The My Kaleido drum is not a cage. I do not believe the Santoker drum is double walled as far as i can tell and that feature is not mentioned in any of their specs that I have seen. Also, I'm not sure the drum wall is thicker than the Kaleido based on the photos and videos i've seen. The biggest differences between the Kaleido and the Santoker that I can tell are: - USA Support and parts for Kaleido, which the Santoker does not have at this time - 250 gram capacity for the Santoker, while the M2 is 400 gram capacity. - Artisan or Kaleido logging software with the Kaleido, while the Santoker uses their proprietary software that does not currently display events while roasting. Most commercial roasters are using Artisan, Cropster and using this on a home roaster will help you transition from one machine to another. Next, you mentioned the need to roast light vibrant coffee. The Kaleido is very capable of this. You are concerned about heat retention. The Kaleido has thick metal chassis for the roasting chamber. While it wasn't not as thick as the Mill City 500 gram, i have not had any concerns about heat retention. Now for the important topic of roasting on different roasters. Not all large commercial roasters are double drum roasters. It depends on which commercial roaster and how old it is. There are many that do not have double wall drums. The big difference between roasting on a commercial roaster compared to a home roaster is not only the large hot metal surfaces on the commercial, but the large mass of coffee being roasted. As the coffee gets closer to first crack, less energy is needed for several reasons, one being the hot mass of coffee that is now on it's way to going exothermic. It will actually radiate heat, allowing some large roasters to coast/ zero energy (depending on their profile). I share this because regardless of the design of a small home roaster, the roasting experience will be different. This is where your experience with the coffee will play a critical role in your ability to transition from one roaster to another. I believe time roasting coffee on a drum roaster, whether it is a bullet, Kaleido, or Santoker will give you much of the experience you will need to roast on the larger machines. There will be lots to learn and adapt to when you roast on the larger machines BUT your hands on experience on the smaller machines will give you a big head start in your production roasting journey.
Thanks so much for reading my long query and responding as you did. It definitely has given me some things to consider that wasn't aware of before. The M2 seems like a great option.
Very attractive roaster for the price point. Perfect capacity for a lot of people I'd think. Looks well-built, and offers a lot of data access. You may be answering this in a future video, but how does the tablet version compare to the Artisan version, in terms of ease of use, accuracy, and usability? Thanks Mike!
I've used both of the logging software options and there is a difference. It is easier to roast with the standard Kaleido tablet. I think it gives more confidence to the roaster because the software calculations seem to be softening the variations in the ROR which would cause less fiddling with the air and heat. It is kind of hard to explain and I haven't quite figured out how the sampling rates are different. I'm looking into this. Ideally, I would like them to perform the same, hence, use the same settings and that is what I am trying to work out. As far as usability and accuracy, the numbers being displayed when I run both at the same time are providing the same data I think. Like I said, I'm kind of in that mode right now comparing. I like controlling the roaster with Artisan. That is a new experience and is pretty cool. Are you asking if you could roast just as well with the Kaleido tablet compared to Artisan? If that is the question I would say the cup might not be much different. The experience is different. If you are used to using artisan then the dual or pro version might be your ticket. If you can afford it, the dual gives you more options. Just my opinion of course. Unrelated to the software, the capacity ( 50-400 gram) that is stated by the manufacturer is the capacity limit. Yes, it does a nice job of roasting 400 grams and has plenty of air and power. But, roasting 400 grams is really filling it up. You won't be able to roast more than 400 grams. My mill city is 500 grams and I could roast just over 600 grams if I had to. FYI.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks Mike. I do understand what you're saying. This is a really nice option if I decide to upgrade from my FR800. Right now my capacity is 1/2#, which is fine 99% of the time. When I want to give beans as a gift, it gets a little dicey, but doable. The extra control and data generated by the Kaleido is also attractive to the inner process geek in me. Not cheap, but not ridiculous for what you get. Thanks again.
The M2 is really fun. I'm just beginning to use artisan with this machine and it is pretty weird controlling the roast with Artisan. It has always been a manual thing for me
Great video as usual,,,really interested in seeing an actual roast ,,,,we have missed your videos,,,you spoil us,,,,,Ken,,,,,,Are you going to add one of these to your collection of roasters ?,,,what is the range of heat and air on this machine ? 1 thru 10 like the fresh roast ?
Hi Ken. A full roast is coming soon. This machine is on loan to me from the USA Kaleido distributor. So, it will go back. The range of heat AND air is 0-100, incrementally using a slider. If you use the tablet only then i think it is in increments of. I think you can set the increment in the setup as well? Not positive about that part.
This roaster capacity is a little small for my roasting needs. I'm not sure what is going to happen with this roaster. We will see! Thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad you like these videos.
Did you find this roaster did just as well with 400g as 200-300g? I’m hearing a lot of reports from kaleido users that they are having success with 200g in the m1, 400g in the M2, etc. Whereas with most roasters, we see people aiming for ~80% or listed capacity for that extra control. Thanks as always for such great content!
Hi Andrew, thanks for your question and for watching my video. Yes, the M2 performed really well with the range between 200-400. About 99% of my roasting was in the 300-400 range.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab appreciate the feedback, and your engagement in general on TH-cam. Just converted my M1 preorder to M2. Now I need to make sure the garage is ready for 1600W! 😅
Congratulations Andrew. That is exciting. I think it is a wise choice. If give you more options for batch size. There will be differences in charge temperatures and heat settings when you roast different batch sizes. For example, last night I roasted a 400 gram batch and a 300 gram batch for the same coffee. I used a lower charge temp for the smaller batch size by 5c. I also used a lower heat setting by about 5%. The end result was a similar dry time for both roasts. Just an FYI as you plan your roasts. Best thing to do is experiment with batch size when you season your roaster when it arrives.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab taking note for sure! Looks like EO got their shipment in and I’m inside of a week from first roast! Picking up a couple kg of seasoning coffee to practice with, too! Looking forward to more M2 videos if you’re still planning to share some more!
Thanks for the great video, it would be very helpful for beginners like me if you choose a green coffee that you like and roast it the way you like it using Artisan to create a profile.... Later you share the Artisan profile and where to get that green coffee so we can use it as a baseline. We can try to reproduce your roast using the same Green coffee, the same Artisan profile and the machine (M2) because having a good baseline is extremally useful to learn and understand what are we dong right or wrong while we are in the learning curve, then later we can experiment making small changes in the Artisan profile as we learn more.
Hello Roberto, thank you for watching and subscribing to my channel! Thanks for the suggestion. Are you suggesting making the profile using the "artisan designer"? or put together the roasting plan on paper and then roasting it using the M2 and sharing the profile?
Thanks for the answer, I'm not very familiar with Artisan yet, but as far as I understand I can upload a file (with the roasting profile) to the Artisan software connected to the M2 and if I use the exact same green beans it should give me very similar results to what you did. So to answer your questions, is probably the second option. The Idea behind this controlled exercise is not only to get familiar with Artisan and the Kaleido M2, its also to apply and better understand the theory in your videos in a hands on process that does not require too much adjustments and programing during the roasting process, this way we'll end up with a final product that we can enjoy and use it as a reference for future personal adjustments and experimentations like lighter or darker roast. @@VirtualCoffeeLab
Is the Bunafr available yet. I looked last week and it’s still on pre-order. I’ve looked at that machine in person at the specialty Coffee Association expo. I saw them do a demonstration and it looks interesting. It would be a totally different experience than the M1. If you’re looking to go down the artisan route (as in creative) the M1 would be my recommendation. But, if you have any potential for higher capacity in the future, I would strongly consider the M2. It does a wonderful job at 300 g. the Bunafr does allow you to have control over your profile, but it’s a totally different roasting experience. What is it you like about the Bunafr compared to the M1?
@VirtualCoffeeLab not available yet, but when it is hopefully you can do a review on it. They said they are shipping their first units out next month. The Bunafr seems small enough to have on my coffee counter and seems pretty easy enough to plug and go, so less fiddling if needed. This is my first endeavor into roasting, so I'm not sure how much I want to roast beyond d what I drink each week (about 200g per week). M2 would Def be what I would get if it ends up something I really enjoy and family members are interested in getting coffee off of me. Bunafr seems a lot easier I suppose that is the draw on it
Based on your comments the Bunafr seems like a logical choice. As far as reviewing, I have already spoken with the manufacturer back at the SCA. I think they were a little overwhelmed. They had some quirks they were still trying to iron out with the pre-production unit they were demonstrating. If it does everything they say it will, with reliable consistency, then this will be a great roaster for many who want instant gratification with some decent coffee and the ability to have some input in their roast profile. If I can get my hands on one I will review and share with my channel audience. I think the M2 is a better option but there will be a greater learning curve. You will need patience and time to understand the ins and outs of the roaster and then apply basic roasting concepts. Oh, and it will take up more space. My videos should be helpful if you go down that path.
Great video, Mike! A buddy and I are getting into roasting and we want to get two roasters a M10 for batch roasting and either a M1 or M2 to use as a sample roaster. Can the M2 still pick up beans in the trier when doing ~100 g batches?
Yes, the M2 can still catch beans in the trier roasting a 100 gram batch. I just threw in 100 grams to test to confirm. I have not roast 100 grams in the Me. The smaller batch I’ve done was 200 grams
Kaleido has made changes to their product line. This page highlights the differences. kaleidoroasters.com/pages/kaleido-hot-air-upgrade-whats-new-version-2-or-s-model-kaleido-roaster
Currently $2,079 usd for the dual system. Dual means the roast can be controlled with the included usb tablet which uses Kaleido’s interface to roast and it can also connect via Bluetooth and can be controlled by Artisan.
Hey y'all! How do you do the venting for this machine? If I'm not mistaken the exhaust is 1.5inch diameter and it looks like you have a coupler that increases it to 3 inches? is it pvc? I'd really appreciate some help! I have no experience with ventilation piping.
I found an adapter at grainger that increases the exhaust to 3” which is perfect for 3” flexible dryer venting. You Winn need a smaller hose type clamp for the 1.5 side and also a larger clamp ring for the 3 inch side. See this video at the two minute and fifty second mark th-cam.com/video/qt336EHW8BE/w-d-xo.html ALWAYS empty that chaff collector after every roast.
Hi Greg. I still have my Mill City 500 gram. I do plan on continuing to roast that roaster but currently I have the opportunity to roast on a Kaleido. I try to roast on different coffee roasters. You may have seen my hive, fresh roast, popper, Behmor and MC500 and each of these appeal to some of my audience. I’ve got to admit, I am really pleased with the roasting experience I’m having with the Kaleido M2. I would really like to try the big machine (M10). I roast about 5 lbs a week and the M2 is a little small for my personal needs. 400 gram is max capacity and I roast 500 all the time. You are roasting on the MC500?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hello Mike. Glad to hear you still have the Mill City. I am roasting on the Dongyi 1kg propane unit. I started on a Kaka style drum roaster, stepped up to the Behmor before the Dongyi. It's taking me a little bit to get used to this 1kg. I am envious of the opportunities you have had to roast on the units you have. I currently roast 4-6 lbs per week 2 lbs at a time. I have watched every one of your videos, most multiple times. I credit you and your channel for making me the roaster I am today. Your content is delivered well and chock filled with information for anybody to consume, and very easy to listen to.
1600 Max Watts.. I use a 15 amp household wall plug to run the Kaleido M2. The machine isn’t always consuming those watts, it at 100% power with full power
Hmm, I just need to get my hands on one. Oh, wait. I do have someone who has offered to let me roast on their Aillio Bullet. So, a comparison video? I will see what I can do. I'm sure the Bullet is a great roaster. There are so many people using that roaster and I have not heard of any significant issues. I was talking with the manufacturer earlier this year but we weren't able to get a roaster to make some videos. Maybe in the future.
Weighing in with my thoughts, Mike of course may feel differently :) Personally, I don't think small business is the target market for this particular model. The M10 would be my suggestion with a capacity of 1.2kg (2.5lbs). I believe the target market for this particular model is the home "power user". Someone who wants excellent control over the variables in the roast along with a generous batch size for sharing with friends and family.
@@TheCaptainsCoffee My point is that this machine is very expensive for the home roaster and cannot even be considered for a small-time roasting business because its small capacity.
@@mhpjii oh of course, I'd agree it's an expensive option! But I know folks who have $5000 espresso machines at home. That might be out of my budget, but that's why I specified either a "power user" (someone who roasting is really important for and has saved up for a long time for something really special to them) or someone who simply has a higher budget. It's certainly not for everybody! There are just more considerations than for a business or what's adequate for most home roasters. I know folks who would scoff at a $2,000 home roaster, but would drop $2,000 on a different hobby in a heartbeat
@@TheCaptainsCoffee I agree but I tend to see these higher-end purchases as investments, not hobby equipment or toys. It's also funny to me that people wince at the inflated prices of coffee at retail outlets and feel compelled to buy a machine such as this to go the DIY route at home. How much coffee would they have to roast to make it pay off? Hence my mentioning a "small-time roasting business."
@@mhpjii I can certainly appreciate your perspective! I guess at the end of the day I have a broader understanding of what an investment is. Some investments are made to generate a financial return and some are made to generate an emotional return! The crossover where both happens is exceedingly rare
On the Kaleido, yes. I can hear first and second crack clearly. I have noticed that some coffees has a muffled first crack. This sometimes happens in the early part of first crack.
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Very interesting, and I am looking forward to hearing more of your impressions on the next video!
Thanks for watching. I am looking forward to roasting more on the M2. It is a feature rich roaster. More to come!
Regarding the chaff, I picked up 1 gallon shop vac, keep it close to the roaster, when the roaster is cool, just pull the drawer out, stick the hose under the drum and hit it with the vac. To get rid of chaff in the roast, just hit it with a blower on the low setting or hair dryer while stirring the seeds in the basket. It's a little messy, but easy to blow out of the garage with a bigger blower. I'm finding very little chaff in my ground coffee with these extra steps. You'll like the way Kaleido works with Artisan: I have yet to use the tablet for anything other than a backup. Thanks for posting, enjoyed watching.
A small vacuum is a necessity to properly clean out the Mill City 500 gram chaff collector, the behmor, even the other smaller roasters i've used. It is handy for the work area but especially inside the roaster chaff area. I have noticed the Kaleido M2 does a really nice job of knocking off the chaff while in the drum BUT could do a better job of getting it all into the chaff tray. I end up either brushing or vacuuming the chaff box area as well as the tray after every roast. I wish the chaff tray had more capacity.
I'm excited to roast on the Kaleido using artisan. Thanks for watching and for sharing craig.
Appreciate your thoughtful review as always, Mike! Hopefully I'll get my hands on one eventually because you've got me intrigued! The price point for these machines is nearly unbeatable. I appreciate your thoughts on the difficulty of the learning curve for a beginner. Folks like us often forget to put ourselves in beginner's shoes and while machines like this offer great control for us, they can be intimidating for beginners. But I feel like most machines will run into that problem: with more control comes a steeper learning curve. And of course, time spent with your backlog of excellent videos should help beginners a ton 😉
Thanks David. It really is an interesting roaster with lots of bells and whistles. I think the standard Kaleido tablet will be an easier transition for those who haven’t use artisan before. I’m a fan of the tablet. I wish it was bigger. Actually, I thought I saw a larger screen version announced overseas somewhere? From 7” to 8”???
Thanks for the kind words Favid. When do you expect your next wave of Colombians. Ever had a Hulia Sidra Cultivar?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab fresh Colombian harvests are expected to start landing Dec/Jan! I have had Sidra, super tasty. Also usually super expensive 🤣 Thankfully not Gesha expensive usually! Another "newish" cultivar that's hitting the mainstream to look out for is Sudan Rume. Very old variety that goes back even before Bourbon! Samples I've had were complex yet clean. Very expressive
sounds delicious. I'll keep watch via your newsletter for these coffees. Thanks
I have put about 30 roasts now through my M10, and I have been very happy with it. I find the sweet spot for batch size for the M10 to be about 600-800g. It will go up to 1kg, but I found the roast at that capacity to be a little too inconsistent. I roast a lot of natural process beans, so I do have to clean out the chaff from around the drum once about every 10 roasts. Artisan is great, manual roast control is easy and responsive, but I cannot comment on PID auto-roasting since I haven't tried it yet. It is a serious investment, but I can output a batch every 15 minutes, so I only have to roast a couple hours a month to supply two families and my workplace (50+ staff) with beans.
Congrats on your roaster Andy. Great decision. I love your motive for roasting and I am glad to hear you are manual roasting. Auto Roasting can work with the Kaleido but it far from perfect. I think the same thing can be said with the Bullet. I have an M10 and roast plenty of 400 gram batches with no problems at all. I have also roasted 1 kilo batches and was amazed at the power of the roaster.
I would love to hear more about your roasting and even see some of your profiles. Thanks for sharing your roasting journey, experience with the Kaleido, and for watching my video.
My m6 came in this past wed. Trying to figure out artisan now
Would be very interested in your impressions.
congrats on your new M6. The most challenging part of my experience with the Kaleido M2 was getting the roaster bluetooth to connect to artisan. Barrett at the Espress Outlet (kaleidoroasters.com/ ) helped me. I believe the manufacturer could do a better job of documenting everything about the roaster including the connection. Regardless, once it was connected I have had no issues since.
Good show of the roaster, Mike, I like it. It will have to wait, however, as I just got my used Gene Cafe, and it roasts
really good too. Love your work, and I check in daily for new stuff. Thanks.
Thanks for the encouraging words Jeff. I’m glad you are having a great experience with the Gene Cafe. Yes, many more roasts with the M2. Enjoyed the experience enough that I bought an M10. That are great machines. Not perfect, but fully capable.
I’m glad you enjoy my videos. Thanks for sharing!
Great stuff! M2 Pro arriving in a few days and looking forward to your Artisan videos. Like that most of your info is adaptable to multiple roasters because they explain the basics of roasting profiles. Thanks for the content.
Thanks for watching and sharing Larry. Congratulations on your new roaster! What roaster were you using before the M2?
I’m glad you noticed I intentionally try to provide info that can be applied to a broad range of roasting devices. Thanks for encouraging words!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I have been roasting for about 20 years starting with an air popper and for most of that time a Behmore. I decided to improve and move to specialty coffees and learn roast profiles to bring out the bean characteristics. Your content is just what is needed. Thanks!
That's a cool story. Yea, the M2 will be a different experience but the sky is the limit now. Be patient and take time to read the manual. It is not the greatest when it comes to it's presentation but learn the operational side of the machine and then you can focus on roasting some great coffee. You may want to consider seasoning the roaster and using those roasts to get a feel for how the roaster performs.
ALWAYS empty your chaff tray after every roast.
Really nice video. Please do more on the M2 (or m6 😊).
Thanks for watching. More to come.
Thanks for the great content. I am looking at the Kalideo M6, Bullet R2 pro, and Mill Cities MCR500. What would be your choice if you were purchasing one today?
Hi Scott. It depends on space, roasting capacity, and budget. All 3 are good choices. I think the Mill City is a little expensive. What type of roasting were you planning? Hobby or to sell coffee?
Looking forward to your future videos on this! I have the older version (m2 pro) coming from a Hive. Definitely a learning curve, for sure, but I'm really happy with it along with the potential that it offers. Very timely that you just gone one as well (I got the hive after seeing your video on it)
Thanks for being a subscriber and watching my videos Carlo. Congrats on your roasting Journey. That's pretty cool. Did you enjoy the hive? What caused you to make the jump to the M2?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Apart from the upgrade bug, we do consume a lot of coffee in the household. Using the hive, I need to roast almost every day to every other day to keep up with our use, factoring in resting the beans as well. I also do the Hive without any data/probes so I wanted to understand a bit more about the roasting process beyond doing it by just feel. I like being able to roast back to back as well with the M2. I just couldn't do it with the hive because of my messed up wrists.
Thaks for the reply. I get it. The hive is a great roaster but for roasting back to back it can be a little much on the wrist and arm. Enjoy the M2!
Nice video, Mike! Watching you control things with the control pad, makes me really want to start using the Bullet in that same fashion. I am quite sure it will make my roasting experience, much simpler and much more enjoyable, although it’s a lot of fun now. It’s good to see you having a lot of fun with this, and I’m definitely looking forward to your next video!
Hi Lou. the interesting part of this experience is learning how this machine roasts differently and then making adjustments to my approach. Right now I'm trying to determine how much airflow i really need with this machine. The tablet runs the machine, even in the manual mode. It is kind of like your round display where you control temp, air, and drum except they also have the graph and calculations as well.
Good video. Thanks Mike. Do you think for someone new to roasting it would be a good idea to pick a bean, say Guatemala Huehuetenango, and just practice roasting that bean using different profiles and development times? Just wondering if that would speed up the learning curve. For me, I bought small quantities of a bunch of different beans from different vendors and have been roasting those but maybe it’s better to stick with a single bean type. That said, I do like having variety in the cup.
I was considering this Kaleido or a Santoker roaster for home.
I am hoping to be able to go between training and work where your typical steel double walled drums are used, to a home roaster and to apply the knowledge I've acquired. And vice versa, i would like to be able to sample a coffee and take as much as i can from the ideal profile ive come uppn and apply it a more classic production roaster.
The small home santoker machine has this very thick drum which helps to approximate the heat retention of the typical drum roaster. I have heard that these kaleidos use some kind of a cage as opposed to thick walled drums? So I'm not certain if it is the best home solution for my stated purposes? I would like to be able to roast reasonably light and have vibrant acidity, with sweetness and complexity of flavor and aromatics. I guess im wondering if one of the kaleidos is sufficient for my purposes and my preferences, as I do like that it is avaialble from espresso outlet, where as the santoker is a Chinese machine where one must purchase via aliexpress, and the customer support for an American may be inadequate.
I should state that I have acquired a lot of roasting preliminary knowledge but am in my infancy when it comes to number of roasts.
Hello Julius, thanks for being a subscriber. Looks like you've watch Charlie's video about the Santoker roaster. He seemed to emphasize the thick steel drum. While i have had no personal experience roasting on the Santoker yet, I have roasted on my Mill City 500 gram which has a heavy steel drum. I have experienced the difference between roasting with hot air, IR heat, Natural Gas, and propane. I have also experienced the difference roasting on a solid steel drum compared to a cage. I share this because I think my experience on these different types of roasters has given me the context to answer your question.
The Santoker seems like an interesting roaster and might be a great option. I have included my thoughts based on your comments and the little bit i have either read online or seen in videos.
First, the Kaleido 2nd generation "sealed" roasters use a stainess steel drum. It is fairly heavy weight, but not as heavy as my Mill City. It does have "slits" in the drum and the Santoker does as well so chaff can fall out and some IR light can pass through onto the beans. The My Kaleido drum is not a cage. I do not believe the Santoker drum is double walled as far as i can tell and that feature is not mentioned in any of their specs that I have seen. Also, I'm not sure the drum wall is thicker than the Kaleido based on the photos and videos i've seen.
The biggest differences between the Kaleido and the Santoker that I can tell are:
- USA Support and parts for Kaleido, which the Santoker does not have at this time
- 250 gram capacity for the Santoker, while the M2 is 400 gram capacity.
- Artisan or Kaleido logging software with the Kaleido, while the Santoker uses their proprietary software that does not currently display events while roasting. Most commercial roasters are using Artisan, Cropster and using this on a home roaster will help you transition from one machine to another.
Next, you mentioned the need to roast light vibrant coffee. The Kaleido is very capable of this. You are concerned about heat retention. The Kaleido has thick metal chassis for the roasting chamber. While it wasn't not as thick as the Mill City 500 gram, i have not had any concerns about heat retention.
Now for the important topic of roasting on different roasters. Not all large commercial roasters are double drum roasters. It depends on which commercial roaster and how old it is. There are many that do not have double wall drums. The big difference between roasting on a commercial roaster compared to a home roaster is not only the large hot metal surfaces on the commercial, but the large mass of coffee being roasted. As the coffee gets closer to first crack, less energy is needed for several reasons, one being the hot mass of coffee that is now on it's way to going exothermic. It will actually radiate heat, allowing some large roasters to coast/ zero energy (depending on their profile). I share this because regardless of the design of a small home roaster, the roasting experience will be different. This is where your experience with the coffee will play a critical role in your ability to transition from one roaster to another.
I believe time roasting coffee on a drum roaster, whether it is a bullet, Kaleido, or Santoker will give you much of the experience you will need to roast on the larger machines. There will be lots to learn and adapt to when you roast on the larger machines BUT your hands on experience on the smaller machines will give you a big head start in your production roasting journey.
Thanks so much for reading my long query and responding as you did. It definitely has given me some things to consider that wasn't aware of before. The M2 seems like a great option.
Very attractive roaster for the price point. Perfect capacity for a lot of people I'd think. Looks well-built, and offers a lot of data access. You may be answering this in a future video, but how does the tablet version compare to the Artisan version, in terms of ease of use, accuracy, and usability? Thanks Mike!
I've used both of the logging software options and there is a difference. It is easier to roast with the standard Kaleido tablet. I think it gives more confidence to the roaster because the software calculations seem to be softening the variations in the ROR which would cause less fiddling with the air and heat. It is kind of hard to explain and I haven't quite figured out how the sampling rates are different. I'm looking into this. Ideally, I would like them to perform the same, hence, use the same settings and that is what I am trying to work out. As far as usability and accuracy, the numbers being displayed when I run both at the same time are providing the same data I think. Like I said, I'm kind of in that mode right now comparing. I like controlling the roaster with Artisan. That is a new experience and is pretty cool. Are you asking if you could roast just as well with the Kaleido tablet compared to Artisan? If that is the question I would say the cup might not be much different. The experience is different. If you are used to using artisan then the dual or pro version might be your ticket. If you can afford it, the dual gives you more options. Just my opinion of course.
Unrelated to the software, the capacity ( 50-400 gram) that is stated by the manufacturer is the capacity limit. Yes, it does a nice job of roasting 400 grams and has plenty of air and power. But, roasting 400 grams is really filling it up. You won't be able to roast more than 400 grams. My mill city is 500 grams and I could roast just over 600 grams if I had to. FYI.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks Mike. I do understand what you're saying. This is a really nice option if I decide to upgrade from my FR800. Right now my capacity is 1/2#, which is fine 99% of the time. When I want to give beans as a gift, it gets a little dicey, but doable. The extra control and data generated by the Kaleido is also attractive to the inner process geek in me. Not cheap, but not ridiculous for what you get. Thanks again.
Hello can you tell me what adapter I need to connect to a 3" duct? Thank you very much.
Hi Kirk, Grainger has this: www.grainger.com/product/JET-Dust-Collector-Reducer-Sleeve-48RJ23
Which is currently used with my M2
Great video Mike, those roasters are awesome
The M2 is really fun. I'm just beginning to use artisan with this machine and it is pretty weird controlling the roast with Artisan. It has always been a manual thing for me
Great video as usual,,,really interested in seeing an actual roast ,,,,we have missed your videos,,,you spoil us,,,,,Ken,,,,,,Are you going to add one of these to your collection of roasters ?,,,what is the range of heat and air on this machine ? 1 thru 10 like the fresh roast ?
Hi Ken. A full roast is coming soon. This machine is on loan to me from the USA Kaleido distributor. So, it will go back. The range of heat AND air is 0-100, incrementally using a slider. If you use the tablet only then i think it is in increments of. I think you can set the increment in the setup as well? Not positive about that part.
You are doing such a good Job of reviewing it, maybe they will give it you,,,
This roaster capacity is a little small for my roasting needs. I'm not sure what is going to happen with this roaster. We will see! Thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad you like these videos.
Did you find this roaster did just as well with 400g as 200-300g? I’m hearing a lot of reports from kaleido users that they are having success with 200g in the m1, 400g in the M2, etc. Whereas with most roasters, we see people aiming for ~80% or listed capacity for that extra control.
Thanks as always for such great content!
Hi Andrew, thanks for your question and for watching my video. Yes, the M2 performed really well with the range between 200-400. About 99% of my roasting was in the 300-400 range.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab appreciate the feedback, and your engagement in general on TH-cam. Just converted my M1 preorder to M2. Now I need to make sure the garage is ready for 1600W! 😅
Congratulations Andrew. That is exciting. I think it is a wise choice. If give you more options for batch size. There will be differences in charge temperatures and heat settings when you roast different batch sizes. For example, last night I roasted a 400 gram batch and a 300 gram batch for the same coffee. I used a lower charge temp for the smaller batch size by 5c. I also used a lower heat setting by about 5%. The end result was a similar dry time for both roasts. Just an FYI as you plan your roasts. Best thing to do is experiment with batch size when you season your roaster when it arrives.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab taking note for sure! Looks like EO got their shipment in and I’m inside of a week from first roast! Picking up a couple kg of seasoning coffee to practice with, too!
Looking forward to more M2 videos if you’re still planning to share some more!
I think i will have one more with the M2.
Thanks for the great video, it would be very helpful for beginners like me if you choose a green coffee that you like and roast it the way you like it using Artisan to create a profile.... Later you share the Artisan profile and where to get that green coffee so we can use it as a baseline. We can try to reproduce your roast using the same Green coffee, the same Artisan profile and the machine (M2) because having a good baseline is extremally useful to learn and understand what are we dong right or wrong while we are in the learning curve, then later we can experiment making small changes in the Artisan profile as we learn more.
Hello Roberto, thank you for watching and subscribing to my channel! Thanks for the suggestion. Are you suggesting making the profile using the "artisan designer"? or put together the roasting plan on paper and then roasting it using the M2 and sharing the profile?
Thanks for the answer, I'm not very familiar with Artisan yet, but as far as I understand I can upload a file (with the roasting profile) to the Artisan software connected to the M2 and if I use the exact same green beans it should give me very similar results to what you did. So to answer your questions, is probably the second option. The Idea behind this controlled exercise is not only to get familiar with Artisan and the Kaleido M2, its also to apply and better understand the theory in your videos in a hands on process that does not require too much adjustments and programing during the roasting process, this way we'll end up with a final product that we can enjoy and use it as a reference for future personal adjustments and experimentations like lighter or darker roast. @@VirtualCoffeeLab
OK, I understand. Share the artisan profile.... I'll try and do that if I can. Thanks.
trying to decide between the M1 or the Bunafr for home use. I only use about 150-200g of coffee a week. So a sample roaster is perfect in size for me
Is the Bunafr available yet. I looked last week and it’s still on pre-order. I’ve looked at that machine in person at the specialty Coffee Association expo. I saw them do a demonstration and it looks interesting. It would be a totally different experience than the M1. If you’re looking to go down the artisan route (as in creative) the M1 would be my recommendation. But, if you have any potential for higher capacity in the future, I would strongly consider the M2. It does a wonderful job at 300 g.
the Bunafr does allow you to have control over your profile, but it’s a totally different roasting experience. What is it you like about the Bunafr compared to the M1?
@VirtualCoffeeLab not available yet, but when it is hopefully you can do a review on it. They said they are shipping their first units out next month. The Bunafr seems small enough to have on my coffee counter and seems pretty easy enough to plug and go, so less fiddling if needed. This is my first endeavor into roasting, so I'm not sure how much I want to roast beyond d what I drink each week (about 200g per week). M2 would Def be what I would get if it ends up something I really enjoy and family members are interested in getting coffee off of me. Bunafr seems a lot easier I suppose that is the draw on it
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I found a used M2 for$1000 that I decided to buy. Looking forward to diving down this path
Based on your comments the Bunafr seems like a logical choice. As far as reviewing, I have already spoken with the manufacturer back at the SCA. I think they were a little overwhelmed. They had some quirks they were still trying to iron out with the pre-production unit they were demonstrating. If it does everything they say it will, with reliable consistency, then this will be a great roaster for many who want instant gratification with some decent coffee and the ability to have some input in their roast profile. If I can get my hands on one I will review and share with my channel audience.
I think the M2 is a better option but there will be a greater learning curve. You will need patience and time to understand the ins and outs of the roaster and then apply basic roasting concepts. Oh, and it will take up more space.
My videos should be helpful if you go down that path.
@@onTOPtheROCK I missed your second message about your M2 Purchase. Congrats and ..... great choice.
Great video, Mike! A buddy and I are getting into roasting and we want to get two roasters a M10 for batch roasting and either a M1 or M2 to use as a sample roaster. Can the M2 still pick up beans in the trier when doing ~100 g batches?
Yes, the M2 can still catch beans in the trier roasting a 100 gram batch. I just threw in 100 grams to test to confirm. I have not roast 100 grams in the Me. The smaller batch I’ve done was 200 grams
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Great, thanks for checking!
Is there a big difference between the sealed and non-sealed version? I just picked up a used M2 non-sealed version
Kaleido has made changes to their product line. This page highlights the differences. kaleidoroasters.com/pages/kaleido-hot-air-upgrade-whats-new-version-2-or-s-model-kaleido-roaster
What's the power required, in Watts?
Sounds good, would like to know the price.
$1879 for the M2 model (tablet) that Mike is using. ~$200 more for the Artisan upgrade
The link shows the M2 standard costs $1879.
Currently $2,079 usd for the dual system. Dual means the roast can be controlled with the included usb tablet which uses Kaleido’s interface to roast and it can also connect via Bluetooth and can be controlled by Artisan.
Love watching your video. Awesome! Thank you.
Thanks for watching! Are you roasting on a Kaleido?
@VirtualCoffeeLab yes i have ordered my M6 after watching this video.
Congratulations on your new roaster!
Please provide us information about universities which award coffee degree or provides us knowledge about coffee
Specialty Coffee Association SCA
allyopen.com
Rob Hoos
Hey y'all! How do you do the venting for this machine? If I'm not mistaken the exhaust is 1.5inch diameter and it looks like you have a coupler that increases it to 3 inches? is it pvc? I'd really appreciate some help! I have no experience with ventilation piping.
I found an adapter at grainger that increases the exhaust to 3” which is perfect for 3” flexible dryer venting. You Winn need a smaller hose type clamp for the 1.5 side and also a larger clamp ring for the 3 inch side. See this video at the two minute and fifty second mark th-cam.com/video/qt336EHW8BE/w-d-xo.html
ALWAYS empty that chaff collector after every roast.
Don’t use PVC. Temps are too high
Thank you so much for your answer!
Are you no longer roaster on the Mill City?
Hi Greg. I still have my Mill City 500 gram. I do plan on continuing to roast that roaster but currently I have the opportunity to roast on a Kaleido. I try to roast on different coffee roasters. You may have seen my hive, fresh roast, popper, Behmor and MC500 and each of these appeal to some of my audience.
I’ve got to admit, I am really pleased with the roasting experience I’m having with the Kaleido M2. I would really like to try the big machine (M10). I roast about 5 lbs a week and the M2 is a little small for my personal needs. 400 gram is max capacity and I roast 500 all the time.
You are roasting on the MC500?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hello Mike. Glad to hear you still have the Mill City. I am roasting on the Dongyi 1kg propane unit. I started on a Kaka style drum roaster, stepped up to the Behmor before the Dongyi. It's taking me a little bit to get used to this 1kg. I am envious of the opportunities you have had to roast on the units you have. I currently roast 4-6 lbs per week 2 lbs at a time. I have watched every one of your videos, most multiple times. I credit you and your channel for making me the roaster I am today. Your content is delivered well and chock filled with information for anybody to consume, and very easy to listen to.
Thank you Greg for the encouraging words. I'm glad my videos have been helpful!
Power consumption in Watts?
1600 Max Watts.. I use a 15 amp household wall plug to run the Kaleido M2. The machine isn’t always consuming those watts, it at 100% power with full power
The M10 is fantastic... Just sayin' 😃
What is the least amount of coffee you have roasted on your M10?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab About 300g. No problem if you keep the heat low.
Thanks for the reply. Are you using artisan or the tablet for your roasts?
Now compare it to the Aillio Bullet!
Hmm, I just need to get my hands on one. Oh, wait. I do have someone who has offered to let me roast on their Aillio Bullet. So, a comparison video? I will see what I can do.
I'm sure the Bullet is a great roaster. There are so many people using that roaster and I have not heard of any significant issues. I was talking with the manufacturer earlier this year but we weren't able to get a roaster to make some videos. Maybe in the future.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks for sharing your knowledge, I've learned some valuable roasting tips from you!
Mike, why would I spend $2,000+ for a home roaster that cannot produce more than 400 grams per use (making it useless as a small business machine)?
Weighing in with my thoughts, Mike of course may feel differently :) Personally, I don't think small business is the target market for this particular model. The M10 would be my suggestion with a capacity of 1.2kg (2.5lbs). I believe the target market for this particular model is the home "power user". Someone who wants excellent control over the variables in the roast along with a generous batch size for sharing with friends and family.
@@TheCaptainsCoffee My point is that this machine is very expensive for the home roaster and cannot even be considered for a small-time roasting business because its small capacity.
@@mhpjii oh of course, I'd agree it's an expensive option! But I know folks who have $5000 espresso machines at home. That might be out of my budget, but that's why I specified either a "power user" (someone who roasting is really important for and has saved up for a long time for something really special to them) or someone who simply has a higher budget. It's certainly not for everybody! There are just more considerations than for a business or what's adequate for most home roasters. I know folks who would scoff at a $2,000 home roaster, but would drop $2,000 on a different hobby in a heartbeat
@@TheCaptainsCoffee I agree but I tend to see these higher-end purchases as investments, not hobby equipment or toys. It's also funny to me that people wince at the inflated prices of coffee at retail outlets and feel compelled to buy a machine such as this to go the DIY route at home. How much coffee would they have to roast to make it pay off? Hence my mentioning a "small-time roasting business."
@@mhpjii I can certainly appreciate your perspective! I guess at the end of the day I have a broader understanding of what an investment is. Some investments are made to generate a financial return and some are made to generate an emotional return! The crossover where both happens is exceedingly rare
Can you hear the First and Second Crack!
On the Kaleido, yes. I can hear first and second crack clearly. I have noticed that some coffees has a muffled first crack. This sometimes happens in the early part of first crack.