Deciding Coffee Roasting Temperatures
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Deciding coffee roasting temperatures is this week's topic. How do I know where to begin with a roaster I have never used before? Anyone roasting on a new machine or roasting for the first time will be faced with trying to decide what temperatures to begin your roast. The first step is knowing your roasting machine's features as well as its capabilities. Once you are familiar with your roaster features the second step is to roast some test batches and experience the performance of your roaster. This will help us decide our charge temperature, the amount of time it will take to reach the dry event and also how much control you have over your roaster. Join me as we walk through this experience together.
A special thank you to Barrett & Joe from the Espresso Outlet. They are the USA Authorized Kaleido dealer and have let me use this roaster. You can contact them at:
espressooutlet.net
kaleidoroasters.com
Video Timeline
0:00 Deciding Coffee Roasting Temperatures
0:44 Where do I begin with a roaster I've never used before?
1:10 How is the Kaleido Coffee Roaster different?
4:30 The Kaleido Standard Tablet
5:37 Batch size and roaster efficiency help decide charge temperatures
9:18 Deciding drum speed and airflow
10:30 Why season the coffee roaster drum?
11:24 Charging the Roaster
14:06 Use bean color to determine roast progress
16:50 Dry End
19:37 First Crack
Here are some really helpful resources:
Coffee Roasting Timer
coffeeroastingtimer.github.io/
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Roasting with Sight & Smell - • Roasting Coffee With S...
Identifying Coffee Roasting Events - • Identify Coffee Roasti...
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I roast coffee on my Mill City 500-gram commercial coffee roaster every week. I also use a Behmor and a hot-air popcorn popper to roast some great coffee. Join me as we roast, brew, and cup coffee every week at home.
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I am a coffee enthusiast who roasts coffee from home on my sample-size commercial drum coffee roaster. Coffee has been in my life for over 40 years, whether I was selling it or roasting it, I want to share my passion with you.
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Well done for the first few times using a Kaleido! 😎 I bought the M6 couple months ago, very happy with it: Upgraded from an old Behmore 16 plus. Currently have around 20 Kaleido roasts under my belt and it keeps getting better. My Kaleido has more than enough power to do what's needed. A Light to Medium City Roast (my favorite for a standard Mexican seed) finishes off around 20% power and 30% air flow. Soon as Dry End hits, start turning the power down and air flow up. My roast times (515g) are averaging around 10 to 11 minutes to get 15 to 20% development. Using Artisan is better than using the tablet, the tablet touch screen is a little small for my hands.😎 Thanks for posting, have learned a few things in the "Virtual Coffee Lab"
Thanks for sharing Craig. I appreciate that. Is there a reason why you don't use more than 30 on your air?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab If the seed produces a lot of chaff, I'll run 40%, they come out cleaner. For most seeds, been able to achieve my targets by reducing power and 30% air. The learning curve is still plenty steep. Might try 40% air, see what happens, might be an improvement.
it is the best electric roaster out there with good price and performance
it is very repairable too and compay sells all the part of roaster on their website
i have the m1 200 g model
thank you for your video
fan from iran
Thanks for watching my video and for sharing your experience with your Kaleido. Have you had to repair anything on your roaster?
Thanks for these videos. I just ordered the M1 hot air roaster. 200g is enough for me, per batch. It's so quick to roast anyway.
Also these are stainless steel drums. No need to season, like a cast iron frypan. Unless your other roaster is a steel drum.
@Tech2C, congrats on your new M1. You will have a lot of fun with that roaster. The seasoning is more for burning off production oils, contaminates.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you. Makes sense.
Thank You so much for giving me a lot of advices, I have been waiting for this episode
You are so welcome Andrew. More to come.
Thanks!
Thank you very much for your support! That was very kind. Happy Roasting!
Tks Mike! I have ordered 1 M2 and will get it next month. I hope to enjoy it
Congrats on your new roaster. That’s exciting. Let me know how it goes.
Very helpful video! Just starting out with an M2 after using a Behmor for years. Interpreting the M2 roast data and making adjustments will be much easier after watching this video.
I’m glad the video was helpful. Congrats on the new roaster. I’ve got a couple more Kaleido videos here that might be helpful.
th-cam.com/play/PLe757VIiQrPaZnFBo-dOTg4VOQnr8Tzzx.html
Kaleido has for sure more irradiative energy transfer directily from the heating element. After 7 minutes, when the BT overpasses ET, you have no more convective heating, because The ait is cooler than benas. So I undurstand, in this roasting, youve started with lots of Irradiation (from hot metal and IR elemente) some convection and some conduction, and no convectitive after 7 minutes
Actually, the new models that came out last year (sealed), use a different drum. There is less direct IR light directly on the beans because the drum has narrow slits for the chaff to fall out. It is not a cage-like drum like the Behmor. The IR light does instantly heat the drum.
The BT overpasses the ET because of the positioning of the ET probe. The probe is in the back where the exhaust tube is. It measures environmental temperature as the hot air leaves the roaster. The problem with that is the probe is exposed to the IR light. So, as you use less power further into the roast, the IR light is not as intense. Just this fact will cause the ET to begin to decline. Then the rate of temperature increase of the air is slowing also. Between these two factors, the ET declines below the BT. Depending on the roasting technique, the ET can behave like you and I just discussed OR, using a different approach, the ET can remain constant. It all depends on the profile you use.
Drum roasters are 70% convection roasting compared to air roasters which are pretty much 90-100% (depending on air velocity). You are correct, as the roast progresses, convection increases. Drum speed is a critical part of the convection process as beans are thrown into the air towards the higher part of the drum where there is more hot air. This is important because slow drum speeds prevent the beans from being lofted and cause less convective heat transfer.
Great conversation @renatocipriani93 . Thanks for sharing!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the reply!
As I can see the red light inside the drum, it makes me understand that are some (i can't say how much) IR energy heating the beans directly. Yes, I agree with you that the IR heats the drum instantly, but, as the drum walls are thinner than usual roasters, it doesn't accumulate too much energy. My perception is that the drum temperature is equivalent to the ET probe while the drumm is empty (thinkin of the thermodynamic balance) and become the same as BT during the roast for the same reason (balance with the beans inside). So, I understand there is no conduction (or a few) here because "two bodies in the same temperature are in thermal equilibrium". The convection heating transfer will depend mainly on how much humidity and CO2 are in the air inside the roaster, as both absorbs the IR irradiation and heats the air (analogue to "greenhouse effect). As the roasting process produce both of them (water and CO2), I understants that the air inside the drum has high concentration of water and CO2, then ET registers a "real" (as real it can be) air temperature. This is what makes me think that as BT trepasses ET, we lose the convection heating transfer and became more irradiative. Air roasters imputs hot air inside the chamber, as so classical gas/drum, and this air is hotter tham the beans, pormoting air-to-bean heat transfer. This is what makes me believing in this: At the start we have conduction, convection and irradiation, but, at the end, ir became more irradiative. Meanwhile in air roasters keep the comnvection at the end and drum/gas based (classical roasters) have this 70% convection.
Another argument for sustain that there is few conduction is that is jard to scortch the beans in kaleido with propper rottation, doesnt matter is you're using high power and high charge temperature!
Late in the roast, the IR came both from heating elemente as from the hot metal of the chamber wall, so you can use less power (watts) and keep heating the beans, using the "walls as a heat battery" that was charging during the early roast with higher power... Lately the heat from the metal and from the heatr will sum. (here I can imagine that the upper wall are hotter that the botton, wich influences in the declining of ET while BT increases)
Thank you very much, love your channel!
This was a great video to watch. Even though I just got a Fresh Roast 800 and am brand new, it was really interesting to see your thought process and how you applied it to this roaster. Hopefully, it will help me with my roasting journey. I'm reviewing your Fresh Roast videos too. Thank you. Great as always. 👍
Thank you for sharing your comment and for watching my videos. Yep, I try to include basic roasting concepts while I roast and think out loud. I’m glad it has been helpful for you!
Hello great video as always, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have learned a lot from your vids. I am a newbie.
Glad to hear you enjoyed and learned from this video. Thanks for the encouragement.
Great video Mike. I watched again today with great interest. It looks like a pretty good roaster, I forgot it had the fans in the bean tray and they seem pretty effective. It appears that it will easily run on a 15 amp circuit. The M1S Dual may be an option for my needs, and cheaper than the Link by about $600. Another great video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I have the M2 plugged into a 15 amp 110v socket. There are a couple of quirks with the M2 that i should point out. First, the chaff collector needs to be emptied after every roast. Also, there is a series of bars that keep you from putting your had up through the chaff collector drawer area into the roasting chamber. I'm not sure if they are still putting them on new roasters but they said it was a safety feature. Anyway, sometimes, with heavy chaff, it can lay on top of the bars and now fall through into the chaff tray. This can easily cause smoldering or a chaff fire if you don't clean this out after your roast. It is easy to do. I use the wooden stick Kaleido provides and i roll it along the underside of the bars and any chaff that gets hung up will fall through. Then i sweep it out of the chaff tray area with a paint brush. Takes all of about 15 seconds and is part of my normal process.
I did talk with the manufacturer and I think the bars can be removed, I just haven't done that yet. Other than that, the adapter ring for the vent can be purchased at Grainger to take you from a 1 1/2" exhaust tube to a 3" flexible vent pipe. . That was easy.
Lastly, the initial connection with bluetooth and artisan can sometimes be flakey but once it is setup it is reliable. If you get the dual system, I don't leave the tablet plugged in if I am using artisan. I have found they conflict at times.
Those are the quirks..... and all roasters have them. You could join the Kaleido facebook group and read user comments. That might be helpful.
Hi Mike, great video, that machine is a we rippa. I like the control panel.
Yea, I’m really enjoying the M2!
Been following you for while and I'm so happy to see you make an effort to learn and use celsius/kilos in order to speak to a broader audience like myself :) Thank you so much Mike -- I learn a lot with you 😀
Thank you for watching my videos! Learning Celsius has been something that I should’ve done a long time ago. Hope to incorporate both Celsius and Fahrenheit into my videos regularly. I’m glad you’ve learned a lot! What are you using to roast Coffee with?
I'm on a shop size drum roaster , though it's a small one 😊 it's an electric Kuban Base series 1,5 kg. My experience with roasting has been a bit limited as I've always been in the trade/sensory analysis front. Now that I'm roasting myself I've been learning a lot with you (and can finally see hands on how each step of roasting has affected what i was cupping). Keep up the good work 👏
Thanks for your encouraging words. Yea, being able to craft great coffee from the roast through the brew is a very satisfying reward. As they say, "you can't polish a turd". That means, you can't take a bad roast and make it tast good with brewing. So, the roasting process is really important. Understanding how you can influence flavors during the roasting phases is the beginning of great coffee!
@OldMotherLogo Remember that the machine has InfraRed heat also that directly impinges on the beans. I think the ET trace mainly shows the convective component. The IR is still going providing the rest of the heat. Turning up the Air beyond a certain point essentially cools the ET (depends on the Burner setting) which is why the ET trace drops.
Thanks for that reply James. I think the probe placement measuring the ET could also be the issue. The IR is heating the metal as well as the beans. In general, the ET seems lower overall compared to my mill city drum roaster. I'm thinking the bigger issue is the airflow. I did some really basic tests to try and determine how much air was being digested in through the port in the front of the machine by using the lighter trick. Then I also measured the amount of air blowing out the back. On the Gen 2 sealed model they have modified the exhaust tube by making the tube bigger in the middle of the pipe. So when the air moves through the back half of the pipe there is a greater velocity of air coming out. When you measure that air with a lighter, even the lower air setting of 5 will blow out the lighter. I'm not sure if any of this makes a difference to the ET but overall, the impact of the cold air coming in and the hot air going out is a head scratcher.
I hope to be able to talk with the manufacturer about this at some point to better understand what is going on.
Regardless of this detail, I have roasted since then using a similar roasting approach with heat and air similar to this video and my results were really good. I'm impressed.
As a Celsius audience member, I am properly boiling of excitement at 212 degrees ;)
That’s funny. I’m making a 100c effort and am glad you are 😄 pleased.
WOW. The Kaleido roasting pad is very user friendly and data collection very accurate and reliable.
Yea, I like using the standard tablet better than artisan as far as ease of use goes. Atrisan is more precise and give more information but for the average home roaster the tablet works well. It is reliable compared to the connectivity with artisan. There have been a couple of times I have had to "reconnect" artisan to bluetooth.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I was advised by the Kaleido's Technician, the ROR on the kaleido tablet read per 30s and not per minute. So the ROR has to multiply by 2 if to get the ROR per minute?
You are right, the tablet is setup for ROR/30 seconds. In very small print on the tablet just to the right of the target temp display it says that. If you use Artisan with the Kaleido you can choose either "per minute" or "per 30 seconds" for the ROR. Thaniks for sharing that.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks!
@VirtualCoffeeLab I'm really pleased to see you work with the Kaleido. I've had an M2S for about a month now and am still working on the interplay of the controls. It's a long way from a Behmor. In particular, I'm trying to tame the temperature spike at the end of the roast. If you're going to do more videos with the M2 (please do), you might turn on the Air trace under setup. It would be helpful to be able to see the changes on the screen. Also, I found that using a stylus (or even a chopstick) on the Kaleido tablet is much more positive. Thanks.
Shoot for the 5 minute Dry End, then start turning the power down. On my M6, 50% power 30% air flow easily carries me through the Browning phase to First Crack. Post First Crack, I can find myself @ 20% to 30% power, 40% air flow. A little extra air flow at the end also helps to remove residual chaff with some seeds.
Thanks for sharing James and @craigw4644 . Air will help control the temperature spike. On this roast, I didn't care because I was seasoning. Yes, the gradual increase of air (I maxed at 50) really put me into a nice low ROR for the last minute on some roasts I did after I finished seasoning the roaster. I will be sure to turn on the tracing for the air so you can see. I'm probably going to do 1 or two more videos with the tablet and then use Artisan after that. I appreciate the tip on the stylus!
With regards to chaff, I have noticed that some chaff gets clogged up in the drum even with the air up to 50. I empty the chaff tray after every roast. Once emptied I can put my hand in the chaff box area and feel the rollers of the drum. spinning them around releases a lot of chaff. Has this been your experience too?
A very informative video Mike, great job! -I like your new transitions too-
Thank you very much Scott! I'm glad my video was helpful. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber!
Thanks Mike, I saw this roaster when they first came out and no one was using them. A bit strange looking, I thought I would wait. Since then, I have heavily modified a popcorn popper and have been using it for the last two year with Artisan. I've been happy but always wanted something more convenient in setting up and breaking down. Today I did a KG on my popper, and it took 10 roasts a total of 4 hours, resulting in about 880 grams. As always, I'm impressed by your videos and enjoyed this one too. Now you have me thinking the M2 would be a good choice. I'm from the US but have lived in China for the last 10 years and the M2 is a bit cheaper here. The setup seems so simple. Can I just hang the exhaust out of an open window or do I need something special?
Yes, absolutely you can hand the exhaust our an open window if you like. For the M2,. I purchased a dust collector reducer adapter from Grainger. Here is the link:
www.grainger.com/product/JET-Dust-Collector-Reducer-Sleeve-48RJ23
I had to cut some fins to expand the small end to allow it to slide over the Kaleido exhaust tube. I used a 2 inch radiator clamp to hold it in place. The larger side which attaches to the flexible vent is 3" and works perfectly with the 3" flexible vent and you can extend that venting out the window.
My exhaust temperature is lower than my bean temperature when preheating. The bean temp probe will reach temp but my exhaust temp will be 30 degrees C lower constantly
Your air setting will really impact the roast. At charge, mine does the same thing. What size do you have? M10?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab M2 version 1
hmm, I think the M1 is made a little different so unfortunately I don't have an answer on that one. You will notice the ET increases when your roast starts. That is because you are increasing power significantly during the dry phase. While pre-warming, the roaster gets up to temp, then idles. not as much power is needed to maintain the temp so the ET will be lower than during the roast. You should be seeing your ET go above your Bean temperature during the roast though.
Great video Mike. You do such a good job of explaining the "whys". A couple of questions. Your overall impression of the roaster? How exactly does rhe air/fan adjustment affect the roast? Is there a relationship between air flow and temperature? If so, how do you determine that relationship? I know on my FR, fan speed is kind of a 'macro' temperature adjustment. 5 minutes seems to be your go-to for dry phase. Is that just from experience, and will that necessarily be the best # for all roasters? I read where Kaleido has several options including Artisan for their roasters. The graph on the tablet looked pretty informative and well-done. Is the extra expense for the Artisan version warranted? Lastly, with the tablet version, can "ideal" roast profiles be stored and repeated? Thanks Mike.
Hi J, thanks for your message. I plan on doing a couple of more videos with this machine.
My overall impression so far is goo. I was very impressed with the ease of use once I got use to the controls. Great responsiveness, full control and good information from the tablet. This version I am using is the "dual" version so I will be doing some roasts using Artisan which allows you to control the roaster through Artisan. I think for a drum roaster, Artisan is the way to go BUT if money is an issue and you don't want to spend the extra 200 bucks.
There is the same relationship with air and power, similar to the fresh roast. There are still some questions I have about the impact of the air on the ET (blue line). If you noticed when I made changes to my power I was also changing my air. This was to increase convection. The further I got into the roast, the hotter the roaster and beans were getting so i had enough energy to increase airflow and promote convection. At least that was my motivation. To see the ET go below the BT was confusing to me and I need to figure that out.
With regards to the tablet being able to save roasts, yes it it can repeat those roasts. It isn't perfect but in my three tests so far, the roaster does follow the BT (red line). I will have a video about this.
For drum roasters 5 minutes is my default. This number changes based on the batch size and type of bean. For example, If I am roasting a natural, I might aim for 4:30. This would also influence my first crack time and my total roast time. The type of coffee also influences what temperature I drop the coffee at. On the Fresh Roast, because it is pretty much 100% convection, the roaster is more efficient at bean penetration and you can roast quicker. This is why we may notice some people roasting at much shorter total roast times with air roasters. When people talk about their profiles for the FreshRoast air roasters, be sure to find out what version of fresh roast, the batch size, type of bean and ultimately their roast level. The temperature they take there roast too isn't really helpful because of all those variables.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I understand. Thanks for the quick responses.
Great video for beginners like me, I do have some questions:
you said the first few batches are just ft seasoning the machine so the question is would you consume that coffee if not, why?
Also I'm trying to decide between the m2 dual or the m2 pro, I think it might be a lot better to use Artisan software rather than the table but wanted to hear your opinion?
Hello Robert, thanks for watching. I would not consume the first batch just to allow any machine oils or contaminates to be burned off. After that I think it would be fine. Personally, I enjoy medium roasts and the seasoning roasts always go into 2nd crack so I wouldn't drink that coffee although I think it is safe to consume.
As far as the dual vs pro, that is up to you. I think your overall experience will be better using artisan while roasting rather than the tablet. There is more information and I would assume your monitor/screen will be bigger while using artisan. I do like having the tablet for a couple of reasons. First, it is a hard connection, not wireless. So, if there are any technology issues, plugging in with a usb could be a "safety net" so to speak. Remember, there are no buttons or knobs on the roaster. Every function is done through the tablet or artisan. So, if your computer crashes OR the bluetooth fails, you can always use the tablet to get the roaster under control to cool it down properly. That is just my opinion. If you had to choose between one logging software, artisan wins. Either way I don't think it is a critical choice but i do think you will have a better overall experience using artisan. If money isn't an issue then why not get the dual? If money is tight then go with the pro version. FYI, you can roast perfectly with the standard tablet. The only big downside for me is the size of the tablet which is a 7" screen.
Hope that was helpful.
A big like for the Celsius 😅
I’m trying. Thanks for watching.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you for the great content! I've somehow mastered your language, but Fahrenheits, lbs, stones are just beyond me. 😁
Great content and super helpful! I’m trying to decide between the K10 and the Bullet. Do you have any suggestions? I really appreciate your videos!
I have not roasted on the Bullet so I personally can't comment based on my experience. The Kaleido M10 is a larger capacity roaster by 20% based on the 1 kilo capacity of the Bullet compared to the M10 which is 1.2 Kilo.
Based on comments I have read from quite a few, those who own a Bullet are very happy.
At some point soon I plan on roasting on a friends Bullet and then I will have an opinion about the features and sue of the Bullet. Maybe even do a comparison video? I wish I could offer a better response but I just don't have any experience with the Bullet yet.
The Kaleido M10 is quite a bit less expensive but that shouldn't be the only reason to choose one roaster over another unless money is the only determining factor.
What are your plans for use? Is this for business to sell coffee OR do you plan on roasting for your own enjoyment? Do you have any roasting experience? What type of roaster are you currently using?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I am a home roaster and currently roast on a Behmor. I’m interested in larger capacity, shorter roasts, and the ability for more in-depth tweaking. The ability to repeat and save roasts, as well as use roasts posted by other folks, is also compelling to me. I can get good roasts with my Behmor, but am intrigued by what would be possible with a higher end home roaster.
Thanks for your response! I’ll be watching for your comparison video to come out.
It was so enjoyable watching this video! It reminded me of my first several months with the Behmor, and my first few weeks with the Bullet. I watched as you struggled a bit with the controls and the effects they had, just like I did! I particularly liked the way you established a purpose for the beans: not for an accurate roast turnout but simply for learning about the roaster. I was amazed at how the roast actually seemed to basically stay in good control. Nice! It does look like a machine that would be easy to learn and master quickly. My guess from the looks of how the roast went, is that it may have been a fairly decent roast if you didn’t have to let it go to second crack.
Some questions. Were the temp sensors thermocouples? Was there a reason you decided to measure temps in Celsius? Is there any advantage to Deg C or Deg F for that equipment? Not sure if you covered this, but is there a way to send the screen contents to either a WiFi printer or a computer?
Pretty nice looking machine. Their labelling the heating control “BURNER” is interesting 🙂
Thanks Mike!
Hi Lou, thanks for your message. Yea, the control seems better than my Mill City which is very sensitive. I'm wondering if it has to do with the heated air or something. I'm still trying to understand that. It is easy to use and my experience so far with roasts after the seasoning was completed have been solid. I hope to put together a first impressions video soon. It is always fun experiencing something new and challenging!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab it seems to me that controlling gas heating is probably more difficult to achieve than controlling electric heating. Electrical steps of heating can be easy to achieve; smooth small steps in gas pressure, however are probably more difficult. I know heating control on the Bullet is quite nice in my opinion. You’ll have to check that machine out soon. 🙂
Looking forward to your next video on the Kaleido!
definately want to checkout the bullet. I think part of the control for the Kaleido is the pre-heated air which seems to give more stability. I could be wrong on that but i'm curious if that makes a difference. I do enjoy the incremental click adjustments!
Good job with the tutorial. As a beginner home roaster, it has been very helpful particularly on the temperature and time adjustments. Just got my M2 roaster a week ago. I will be using your video guide to help me out. I tried my 1st 2 roasts with the Artisan program but failed. I will trying the tablet next.
Thanks for watching. One little trick to help you control. Your temperatures is to not let your ET get real high. So if you’re roasting in Celsius and you’re aiming for a medium roast, you might want to keep your ET below 195 so you don’t fly through the middle phase.
Thank you for the tip. I will have to watch this in my next roast
Hey mike,
I hope you and the family are well. Things are going nicely here in Japan.
Would you be able to explain why a roast would brown the bean all the same way. I have 1kg bag Brazilian beans and they do not seem to get the defined light line in the middle. The bean just browns and i tried 2 different roasts, 1 with polite heat and the other with a bit more aggressive heat but both roasts have been like nothing i have ever seen.
This is my last kg of a 5 kg variety box and it was stored in a cool and dark place until i put it in a air tight glass container. It was in a double lock zip lock so it was not vacuum sealed. Any idea?
Thank you so very much as always. You are the absolute best.
Are you talking about the chaff that sometimes is still pinched in the centerline of the seed? This is common with higher density coffees like Kenyan coffees and many Brazilian coffees are a lower density. They have a more open centerline so the chaff doesn’t get stuck as easy.
Also, your roast profile will influence this. Beans swell up the further you take them into the roast.
Thanks
@VirtualCoffeeLab That's what I was thinking especially because these beans were grown approximately 500 lower than the other beans I was working with. The Brazil Santos didn't brown this way but I'm sure it was grown at a higher altitude. I just wanted to double check. I'm at the point where I am learning the different varieties and altitudes.
I thought because I saved these for last that my container was compromised and letting air in.
You alleviated a lot of concern. Thank you my friend. You truly are the best.
Seems to be a good roaster with good reactions. And 400g is a good amount. Did you try less beans also?
Hello Erhard. Yes, I have roasted 300, 350, and 400 grams since completing my seasoning roasts. The manufacturer says you can roast as little as 50 grams. I will have to test this and see what happens.
Have you tried out the M1 v2 yet? Been eyeing this just because it’s so compact
No I have not. There are quite a few Kaleido M2 users here on my channel. They have been really happy with their experiences BUT there is a learning curve.
My videos should help, especially the one you watched here. My "secret sauce" playlist is a great starting place. Then my "essential" playlist covers a lot of theory..... and my "roasting profile" playlist will help. Honestly, 99% of my content is evergreen. It is content that will still be helpful years from now and can apply to most coffee roasting equipment.
Hi Mike, after your first roast, at about 25:20min in the video, before moving on to the next roast you pressed Burner Off. Did the burner not shut off when you pressed Cool for the first batch? If not, why did you leave it on for the cooling? I’m just wondering why that was or if that’s the procedure for back to back. Cheers.
The burner eas turned off automatically when I dropped the coffee. He Kaleido tablet leaves the graph on the screen until you hit end burner, so, you saw me resetting the graph and starting the auto heating to begin heating to the set charge temperature.
how to tablet feels , it lookis a little bit smaller on the fingers. Nice video, thanks for the info!
Hello Esteban, I wish the tablet was a little larger. Having said that, if this was the only way to profile roast using their software and hardware, I would still be able to roast. My vision is t the best so reading glasses are very helpful.
As far as button size I had no problems. The touch sensitivity could be improved but once I used it a couple of times I didn’t really think about it anymore. If you roast on artisan, the dual system or the pro would probably be a better choice.
What are you currently roasting with?
What is the difference roasting on ARRISAN? How to connect the thermocouples?
Have kaldi mini took some time
Thanks for sharing John. Yea, the process of figuring out temperatures, air and all of that does take time and patience. In my case, now that I have established my basic profile, I'm trying to work through some of the other profiles I have used in the past on my cill city 500 gram.. They involve much shorter roast times and this roaster can quickly get too hot and my roast can take off on me. More to learn and more time needed to figure it out I guess. ;-)
Can you share what material you used for the exhaust fan you connected to the roaster?
Thanks for your question. I purchased a dust collector reducer adapter from Grainger. Here is the link:
www.grainger.com/product/JET-Dust-Collector-Reducer-Sleeve-48RJ23
I had to cut some fins to expand the small end to allow it to slide over the Kaleido exhaust tube. I used a 2 inch radiator clamp to hold it in place.
Thank you so much!
Hello all, enjoy this channel so much. Because, I have improved my overall coffee roasting style and it has changed dramatically due to this channel. So thanks for everything that you do! Nevertheless, I was in the market for a new roaster. I was looking to upgrade from my old Behmor 1600 plus it goes without saying I learn quite a bit on this particular roaster. Anyways, I just upgraded to the Kaleido Sniper M10 and I should have it by the end of this week. Also, it's all because of you. Mike, in a good way of course. The reason I chose the M10 features, build quality, supporting software, community support, roast capacity and the price were the deciding factors. In addition, is there anything I should know or do with my first roast when I do sit down with the new toy and experiment for the first couple of roasts? Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Also, I don't see a store anywhere where I could support this channel by purchasing coffee related roasting tools or what have you or show my support by wearing a t-shirt. Food for thought if it doesn't already exist enough, somehow missed it. Another concern or suggestion. Not sure how to word that but here goes. Could you show a video on exotic overpriced coffees such as Jamaican Blue mountain and how would you roast that particular coffee?
Congratulations on your new Kaleido M10 roaster. It is a larger roaster and you will have a lot to learn and experience with that machine. My recommendation would be to go to your local coffee roaster if you have one nearby and ask to buy any old crappy beans they would be willing to sell. Not for you to drink but to season the roaster AND to experiment without wasting a lot of money. I would buy 15-20 lbs and learn about heat management, how air influences your temps, and get used to the controls.
You can support this channel in several ways:
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It has been a long time since I roasted a Jamaican Blue Mountain. What has been your experience with that coffee? Where are you buying it from (if you have bought it) and what roast level do you want?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you! I will definitely look into buying some inexpensive green coffee beans to experiment with the roaster to see how it behaves before trying anything as far as perfecting a particular roast profile. Ask for Jamaican Blue mountain coffee one needs to be weary about where one purchase it from because a lot of less than reputable distributors will try to pass off ordinary green coffee beans as Jamaican Blue mountain coffee the green beans sell anywhere from $50 on up and there's no way to verify that you've got it until you're looking at it. However, if you have a trusted source and which you have a relationship with a distributor or rotisserie and you know you're getting the authentic article, then there's no question of course. As far as the roasting, I used to have a friend that I made it for on a pretty regular basis and he insisted on JBM he would pay me to do so. The bean itself is interesting because it's a dense bean but has the characteristics of Kona well any type of island coffee for that matter, but more unique to JBM itself. So far as taste, the one predominant flavor that comes through is a very strong coffee flavor which is in my experience. Hard to get to but it seems to be the most predominant flavor profile along with the buttery taste and floral note set at the end. It's very complex flavors but all the other thing is when you're roasting it, you take it midway at the very most into the first crack. I have cut the roast off right at first crack. It's an amazing cup of coffee. I have to say it's worth every penny.
How much of a difference do you think they're is between the sealed and non-sealed version
I have not roasted on the version you are getting. There are some differences with the biggest being the air intake and pre-heating of the air with the second generation. The comparison/differences are mentioned here:
kaleidoroasters.com/pages/kaleido-hot-air-upgrade-whats-new-version-2-or-s-model-kaleido-roaster
I just ordered an M2 Pro. I have my computer all ready to go once the M2 arrives. But i am uncertain as to how to attach my vent hose to the back of the M2. I see that you have a black item attached between the M2 exhaust port and the vent hose. Did you buy something that is easily purchased or did you make it yourself. Thanks for any information you can pass on.
Hello Ballietoflexheim, For the M2,. I purchased a dust collector reducer adapter from Grainger. Here is the link:
www.grainger.com/product/JET-Dust-Collector-Reducer-Sleeve-48RJ23
I had to cut some fins to expand the small end to allow it to slide over the Kaleido exhaust tube. I used a 2 inch radiator clamp to hold it in place. The larger side which attaches to the flexible vent is 3" and works perfectly with the 3" flexible vent.
Thank you so much
I got the adapter from Grainger. Used my Dremel to make the cuts as you did. Since I roast in my garage I took the vent hose and routed it through the wall into an existing vent next to the water heater that exits on the roof of the house. Very happy.
Be very careful when connecting to other venting. Chaff will get into the venting system and it will need to be inspected and cleaned out. On my short run of only 6 -8 feet I have chaff build up at the end of the vent. I've placed a "bird catcher" type wire frame that fits inside the end of the vent. This keeps any birds or squirls from getting in. You just need to be sure you can access the end of the vent to clean it out regularly. Inspect it after a short while and see if there is any build-up. Then set your frequency to inspect as required.
Is dry end only done by visual inspection
Some may not agree with me. They may base their dry end event on temperature. I have found that this can change based on batch size and how aggressive I am with my heat. So, for me, I use color as a visual indicator of my roast progress and the dry end event.
Now, why is the dry event important? I believe it can be used as a way point towards a successful roast. The pace/momentum we have during the early part of the roast will influence how fast or slow we move towards first crack. The idea is to stay in control of the roast and make our event times to craft some great coffee ;-) ☕️
@VirtualCoffeeLab yes I did my first 2 test roasts on the M2 today. The heat can Def get away quickly. First roast was way too fast and second one I came into 1st Crack a little hot but was able to slow it down in development but made for a longer time in development and dropped at 197 C
Nice.... Yep, that is one of the main points of the dry phase.... to help you not overheat. You can use TP (Turning Point) as a really early indicator or your progress. Start to pay attention to the temp and time and notice how the faster, higher temps displayed at TP will almost always correlate with your dry time. This video will help you find the correct charge temperature for your charge weight, bean type, density and overall profile you want to achieve..
So you started with 160 c but you mention you are using 60% power. I don't understand what you mean by power setting. The roaster is electric so isn't your power setting the same as the temperature you tell the machine to increase to. I guess I don't understand the difference between the temperature you set the machine at and what you call the power setting. Also does a downward rate of rise mean that the temperature is decreasing or that the temperature is increasing at a slower rate compared to a previous rate.
Those are great questions. Short answer first and then an elaboration to fatten things up.
Power Setting - This is the amount of energy being applied. So, 60% is like turning up your light using a dimmer switch. Turning the dial up to 60% of the full 100% full power. The more you turn the dial up, the more power is being applied to the bulb and the brighter it gets. Now the interesting part. I could get the roaster up to 160 using 30%, 46%, or even 100% power and the temperature will increase ad different rates based on the power setting I use. This means it might take longer for me to get to 160c using a lower setting than if I were to use 100%. Also, when I introduce beans in the roaster at 160c and then I select a power setting, we set a power setting that will determine how long the coffee will take to turn yellow or get to first crack. So, power settings (heat management) will help us guide our roast to we hit certain events at specific times, crafting wonderful coffee.
Rate of Rise (ROR) - the rate of temperature increase over time. Depending on the type of roaster you have, this answer can vary. BUT, assuming we are talking about the M2 here, the temperature of the beans is always increasing. The red line is heading upward from about 30 seconds through the rest of the roast. Look at 15:19 and pause it there to see the graph I am talking about. Bean temperature (BT) is the red line, which is always moving upwards. BUT, notice at 28:28 nearing the end of the roast, the bean temperature angle begins to kind of curve a little to the right rather than being a straight 45 degree angle line. That is because the rate the bean temperature is increasing per 30 seconds is slowing. Look at the graph at 28:28 and notice the right side of the graph there are numbers and if you look at the number 10 and follow that line to the left all the way to the green line, you will see the PEAK (highest rate of increase) ROR around the 2 minute mark. This 10 degree celsius increase every 30 seconds means 20 degrees of temperature increase per minute. So, the green line shows you the rate of increase the temperature is going up.
Now look at the timeline on the graph on the bottom. At the 9 minute mark your ROR is at 4 degrees per 30 seconds or 8 degrees celsius per minute. This is a much lower rate than it was near the beginning of the roast. The temperature is still increasing, but at a slower rate.
We might as well address the blue line on the graph since we are there. This line is the temperature of the environment air as it leaves the roaster. This Environmental Temperature (ET) also known by some as the exhaust temperature is another piece of data that helps us keep our roaster in control. It foretells the capability of the Total roast temperature....... sort of..... I guess the easiest way to visualize this is to compare that blue line to the thinner red line that runs near (just under) the Green ROR line. This is our power setting being displayed. When you see it go down (in steps), that is me lowering the power in 10% increments. So, the lower the power setting the lower the ET in a very general sense. I did an entire video on roasting with Exhaust Temperature which explains a little more how you can use that info to roast some great coffee. It is another piece of info to help us monitor our roast progression as it relates to temperatures we applied towards the beans.
Whewww....... I hope that makes sense. All of my videos which use a graph talk about these points (BT, ROR, ET). These are important terms and pieces of data we apply differently depending on the type of coffee we are roasting.
Thanks for watching, your question, and being a subscriber.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for your great answer, I understand it now.
I’m totally mystified how the bean temperature can exceed the environmental temperature.
I hope to understand this better as I do more roasts. I have done a roast since this video where my ET did not drop over the BT but the roast was too hot. It could be my approach with the lower charge. It could also be the placement of the ET probe. It could even be the fact that the heated air is doing something differently. I have no idea. More roasts and then some questions to the manufacturer are on my list.
Regardless, since this video I have roasted about 5 roasts and they were all very good 👍. I am very pleased with the performance of this roaster so far.
I have NOT roasted on the M2 with artisan so I’m wondering if there will be any difference?
The more i roast on the M2, the more I like it BUT you are right, the ET thing is driving me nuts. I took the roaster apart (very easy to do) to access the drum and roasting chamber. Very heavy drum (stainless steel), solid walls that are insulated.... that is all great news. Looking at the probe placement for the ET, it is much lower in the roasting chamber than I would like. This could be why the ET goes so far below the BT. The Bean mass is hot and not influenced by the air. The Air temperature is being measured and as cooler air is introduced with no insulation from hot beans, the ET will noticably go down. The lower the probe the lower the temperatures. On my Mill City 500 gram, the ET probe is at the top of the drum. On the Kaleido, the ET probe is half way between the top and bottom of the drum, even though the exhaust port is at the top. I think the manufacturer was trying to avoid having the probe in the direct exposure to the heating elements (there are 2 of them). I think that moving the probe to a different location higher up might make a difference. I guess I will have to experiment.
*$1,899.00 USD*
That is the current price for the standard (tablet only) version. The dual system is currently a little over 2,000 dollars.
Read that the company is based in Wuhan, China. That's a little ominous! 😅
My Mill City was manufactured in Shezhen China. Wuhan’s is a major manufacturing center in China. Ailio Bullets are manufactures in Taiwan. Seems like most of these appliance type products are made in Asia.