If you want to drag me into a drama fight I wasn't even aware I was stepping into that's fine. However I was just doing my job and filming it. I have never argued that a winch ring doesn't heat up, I'm aware it does. I personally haven't seen it heat up enough to damage a winch rope because I intentionally don't put those loads on the rings. If we are pulling a substantial load we use traditional snatch blocks. I was merely using the multi line pull to keep my jeep from sliding in the mud and making is so it would be slow and controlled as we did the job. I was not aware you were going to take this personally when I wasn't even fully aware of who you were till 2 days ago. Last I knew you were 'Rotator Matt'. So I really apologize for putting your panties in such a bunch. Did not mean to. I messaged you on Facebook and left my number hoping you would like to discuss this instead of going 90's rapper diss tracks and just call me out in videos. Like I said, Im sorry I offended you and I was in no way disproving your points, I was just saying I havent experienced the issues that people were saying, not realizing those people were you. And once again I promote products I use and trust. I trust yankum products, just as i trust my Factor55 products I use and many other companies products I also use.
So you do admit those rings cause heat and under real recovery loads you would not use them and use a regular pulley So this directly conflicts YOUR statement that YOU made in YOUR video I took the clip and played it so you cannot say I twisted YOUR word There is information going around that these heat up and causes friction and hurts the line That’s simply not true and is ridiculous And then you come on here Saying you are well aware they heat up and you would never use them during a hard pull This to me makes no sense We will agree during baby pulls they work But honestly with the worst performance of any ring or block on the market is simply ridiculous product
@@matt.mckinzie real recovery loads? Are you saying that Rory does not do real recoveries? I think I get it now. You feel threatened by Rory and Robby. There can only be one true recovery guy on TH-cam. And you’re going to scream, cry, and virtue signal to see if you can reduce that threat. Real recoveries? You would poop your pants if you were stuck with one of Rory’s real recoveries. Unlike the people that say they’re going to unsubscribe, I’m gonna stay here till I see the video that says “I finally got what I deserved” and the thumbnail with you in a cage match with Rory. Lol
I’m assuming you did not read his comment thoroughly Even he said during “hard” pulls he uses a regular pulley And is aware those rings build up heat so he intentionally dosn’t use them on hard pulls
Having discussions, and making videos like this, with measuring devices, helps us get closer to the truth. I'm glad people like Matt McKinzie, and Robert Pepper in Australia, both of whom I have watched for years, are very detail oriented, thorough, and truthful.
Even a rotating pulley is causing heat, I don't get how a professional recovery guy can promote a pulley ring that doesn't rotate, it's obvious they cause heat and damage to recovery ropes. It's just basic common sense.
I don’t understand why people say you’re in a pissing contest or being generally negative. You’re dedicated to the truth regarding winching gear and respect people enough to tell the truth, call out lies and provide proof. It’s not a pissing contest if the information given is true and informative. Love this channel, fucking amazing and the information is on point. Do not change Matt, your dedication is brilliant.
I used to watch Casey. I liked that he did some good things like helping clean up abandoned vehicles in a Nat'l Forest. I made some comment about his use of technology at the gas pump, and he went off the rails on me. Even called me a conspiracy theorist, which is all right by me as most have been proven true, but it was his insultive attitude. I found him to be a left coast liberal with a big ego. I still watch Matt out in Utah some because I like his vehicle builds. I just don't understand how he can be so disorganized with his recovery equipment. He always goes out without equipment he should have. Maybe he just likes to prove he can make do. I also watch Madd Matt down under. He seems to be a good guy.
After being a subscriber to your channel and all the channels you called out nobody pulls the kind of loads you do and rings will never be as efficient as snatch blocks. While they're good at what they do and they know what works for them, your pulls are simply amazing. I'd leave it at that and not start a fight.
@@matt.mckinzie Those are useable only cold weather and light targets. Otherwise, this is most important reason. The rope seller likes to sell "aid" which easily destroys expensive ropes. It is win-win only for their opinion. Sell rings and sell even more ropes.
I've yet to see any type of actual rigging equipment, ie cranes ect, use any pully or sheeve that doesn't rotate. Ive been around sythetic winch line a long time workijg around derrik diggers and ships and never seen a fixed pully or sheeve. Been a crane mechanic for about 15 years and haven't seen fixed sheeves. I have been back in the offroad world for about 2 years. And wheeled with many of the big names on youtube. The only ones ive seen use one of these rings is the ones who are sponsored by the company making them. When i posted pics of the heat rstings of the different types of synthetic winch rope on yankums videos they deleted my comments and blocked me. I dont have anything made by yankum in my jeep and never will. For one thing they are way over priced.
I 100% agree We came from big tow trucks and rotators Taken crane 🏗️ rigging classes and rotator school to learn rigging in all aspects of angle multipliers and load multipliers of chains, staps, and bridals, along with pulleys and sheaves Frictions rings You name it 8hrs a day 5 days for the crane class alone all about math The rotator school was only 3 days tho Definitely learned more in crane class
@matt.mckinzie yep. Been through rigging, rigging inspector, crane inspector a few times. Most the time on the trail I just let the loudest person lead the recovery. I've found they don't want to listen to anyone who knows actual rigging procedures.
@@joshuabaker5712 I did that before Kinda The boss begged me to. Let the other guy do it his way to keep the peace I said it won’t work Rigging failed Caused the unit to fall 2 other trucks still hook both flipped over And had kids inside one of them since the guy was on call when the call came in and had his kids with him I’ll never sit back on a safety issue after that
Matt, I gotta admit, I feel you get into pissing wars a bit with other channels and towing outfits but this video is excellent. Without running into your channel, I would be buying the same sh*t everyone else is and not having any idea the risk I was taking. I wish you success and hope your educational content becomes mainstream. A true professional.
Thats not what they do dimwit. They earn their living pulling out trucks, Jeeps, cars, ect. They are showing what works for them. Do they need to go find a dozer to pull out in order to justify their existence? Don't think so. This guy needs to chill out.
@@Ryan_Tidwell your missing the whole point of this video… pay attention to the details in the claims the other tubers are making. To answer your question, yes I absolutely agree with you, they should go find a dozer to pull out. Make sure it’s sitting in 2’ of mud too, this would even the playing ground on what they are claiming when it comes to pulling force and pure technique. I personally think you have formed very a bias opinion and you sound really stupid bro.
I have to say, from all the videos I've watched, you have made some impressive recoveries. Pulling all sorts of vehicles ranging from the small to serious heavy machinery. Along the way you've used all sorts of brands and different equipment. Seems like you grew along the way and found the right gear that worked for you. As for me myself, I have a badlands winch, warn winch lines, factor 55 pulleys, and a yankum kinetic recovery strap. I don't use any of it professionally, just recoveries of myself and my friends when we go wheeling on the weekends. I'm not partial to any piece of gear or brand, I've just used what's worked for me. I thank you for the content because what you've put out has made me more knowledgeable and better able to help my friends and I. Keep up the great work and thank you.
I don't understand the controversy, are there really people who think pulling a cable, any cable through a fixed sheave rather than a pulley is a better way to do it?
I just ain't spending $150 on a plastic donut. Why reinvent the pulley with higher friction? Then again I keep a cheap Harbor Freight comealong, recovery strap, and clevis in my truck just in case but I barely go offroading so IDK anything about this other than I'm cheap
I don't do off road driving, and I have never operated a tow truck. I have however stretched quite a bit of fence using hand tools. It only took me one experience to find out that a pulley is far superior to wrapping a rope around a tree or fence post. The same principal is at work if you are using your own muscle power or using an electric motor to do the pulling.
I won't lie, I watch TrailMater all the time and enjoy the content, however numbers also don't lie and the numbers here point to a clear outcome. I'm sure Yankum's ring works but it appears it doesn't work like they claim and that's problem. Keep up with the videos and don't falter, I'm sure there's a lot of online hate coming your way since you're taking on the big dogs..
Even if I could afford an aluminum donut, which I cant, I would never buy one. I like the versatility of a roller snatch block made of steel. If someone has steel cable on their winch and they want to borrow my snatch block its no problem. Roller bearings are much more efficient. Roller snatch blocks have been around forever. Some people just have to have the latest and greatest.
lol.. You're just trolling now. hahaha.. I watch Rory.. He didn't do a "debunking" video. That truck was sliding down into the wash out and they dragged it back up on the road and just happen to use the ring because they couldn't get into a better position. Then he mentioned a few words about it.. it was never to debunk anything. Obviously, you are ALL correct. If you max out the ring, I'm sure you can get friction damage over time.. but if you use it in a normal setting, with regular sized trucks and SUV's-- it's not an issue. Especially for the amount of times that people will ever need to do this. All you guys do this for a living, and you still rarely see the rings used like this.. back to Rory: They only needed to use it as a single pulley-- but their extra line was really long, so he just routed it back to the ring so that they could take up all that extra slack. The road was very slick and slippery. They didn't have good traction at all, so they rigged up the ring so that it would have less pull on the winch truck. You already know this stuff.. It's common sense. (Could they have just tied off the winch truck to another tree behind them -- sure). Going after Casey was one thing-- he's actually testing stuff. Rory just simply used it in a recovery; he wasn't "testing" anything. lol. but I don't disagree: using real pulley blocks is a much better way; especially if you do this everyday.
When your saying your pulling 10x what you really are and backing a product at the same time… your providing false information dude. Thats not professional and at the same time, providing false information to a potential consume that could cause someone to get hurt. Thats the point Matt is trying to get across.
@@jnopatton Those rings have been tested to 80k lbs and still didn't break. It's not about someone getting hurt. His entire argument is that it melts and damages the rope if you use it with too much weight, or don't pause and let it cool off, or pour some water on the ring. Which is good info to know. But even in this same video, he shows how the ring does work fine for pulling a regular jeep. So he's basically playing both sides at this point.
@@calhollithe ring is not issue, it’s the rope. If your say your pulling 15,000 lbs through a snatch ring and your truly not, that’s where the issue lies. It’d be the same thing if someone was fishing with 20lb line saying they’re catching 80lb fish. In reality it may be possible if the fish is swimming toward your the entire time and you gaff it when it gets to the boat. Yes you used 20lb line , yes it’s a 80lb fish but did it fight? No. So you’re not actually pulling 80lbs+ with 20lb line.
I'm with you. Seen lots of ropes break. I've never seen a cable break. Few if any electric winches have the strength to break a cable that's not severely damaged.
Wire gives lots of signs its going bad compared to any synthetic. Then there's the fact it can rub against anything and be fine for the most part! Yall's industry is what made me go with wire rope too
What in tarnation? I watched both Rory and Robby’s videos and I didn’t see either one of them call you out or try to debunk you. The insecurity is strong with this one.
He’s oozing nonsense. Scanning any video he can for the “got you!”. Trying to discredit for views and clout. The fact that nobody really cares on the west coast who this guy is lol. The recovery types are apples and oranges. Matt should just film recoveries. Not bother with ‘I’m right bs’ but, he has an ego to feed.
You speak the truth and hold your values to dictate how you speak to people and operate your business. People forget that if some of these products are used to the way some lie about them they put there family and themselves in jeopardy. Amen sir thank you for being you and having your channel. Maybe these companies should come to you first.
@@marklowe330well actually in Rory’s favour. Using more gear then you need is safer. As you don’t stress the gear. But you have to explain why, lower pulling line pressure. Less heat. Making Matt correct. And Rory to his credit did say on heavy pulls he uses snatch blocks. Or did I get that wrong??
@@marklowe330 and all the years I've been watching trail mater I've never seen him melt the rope or anything like that so we must be doing something right
As always, sir, much respect! I know that you are sponsored by certain things, but you are still a very honest person. Thank you for setting the record straight and I think you should hold onto one of his rings and challenge him to an in person live feed to show his stuff failing so that way he can’t bring some other Ring, that’s specifically treated compared to what he normally sells. I mean, yeah in a perfect world you would use his ring in 40° weather with sleet lol Come to South Florida in August and get buried to your axles in sugar sand and come try that ring.
You are right. Only positive to the Death Bagels is that if it goes flying, it less likely to k!II you than the proper pulley, but your rigging will more likely to go flying if you are damaging the winch line with Death Bagels.
Matt i watch Rory and Robbie and will continue to do so they are entertaining. However you sir are educational and professional ive seen someone hurt offroading its not nice . Keep the videos coming cheers from down under !
I love this video. Thanks for the info. I hate it when someone holds their sponsors to a high level. I never got anything from yankum rops manly because I thought their products were too high. I do have some rino usa products. I was going to buy one of them types of donut type snatch blocks until I saw one of your recoveries saying they were not good to use. I hate it when companies lie just to make a sell.
Got a feeling this will get really interesting soon..I wonder if any other youtube recovery services would step up and agree to an actual test of the yankum rings vs snatchblocks, using strain gauges, etc, similar to what you've done here?
Matt, I know that you are super passionate about winching but you do not have to be chasing after every sentence of every person ever out there saying something. In full context that exact quote had nothing to do with debunking you or promoting a product. He said it "like it was not that big of a deal" and the man routinely uses harbor freight snatch blocks as his preference of choice. Out west your "loads" on rope are nowhere near what stress you put them under. I put close to 4000 miles in moab and colorado and you never have to pull bulldozers out of red rock, get semis unstuck from a swamp or some other stuff... which is why for most non super duty applications (which is 99.9% of trailmater content) you never get within a mile of limits of anything in use. I have watched all of Rory's videos for years and breaking rope is not a problem he ever talked about... I am sure at this point we would have already seen it. BUT... you are as always right about limits and loads so from engineering perspective and all this technical stuff you are correct. It is just that out west you can't really get "properly stuck" even if you tried unless you get caught in a flash flood and then its really a salvage operation.
I second the idea of different environments resulting in different loads and gear. Case in point, Rory's primary product on Yankum Ropes website, the Trail Mater Rope, is a 10' long 3/4" kinetic rope for pulling buggies and 2 Door Jeeps in tight, twisty locations over rocks and loose sand in Moab. He's not even in your league of recoveries and equipment for the vast majority of his videos. Keep up the good work! Be the best Matt McKinzie you can be! Personally, I live around clay and black gumbo, drive a 4x4 dually, and have a 25K winch. I don't own donuts, nor do I use typical snatch blocks except for a light redirect. I use full-sized industrial 8-ton WLL greaseable snatch blocks with a 6" sheave when I need the power of a double line or greater pull.
The toy donuts may be ok out west but that's not how they are marketed. They are marketed as a high load product. That when use as advertised will toast a synthetic rope. I saw that on the, I'm alway right Casey show. When loaded the donut eats the coating off the rope. If the coating doesn't matter, why is it even on there?
I would love to see project farm or torque test channel get in on these tests. I feel like the info they would find would completely support your findings
They would but we just decided to do a full in depth test We ordered $2,000 worth of ring and pulleys From safe extract Arb Gear America Some china crap Bee safe recovery gear rejected our order and dosnt want it tested We will be using 3 load cells One before the ring One on the ring One after the ring This will show us real data of friction loss And Final output for mechanical advantage We will also be weighing all of them to see the weight differences We will be doing a heat thermal imaging during the test to show heat on the line and soft shackle We will also be doing a line retention test Winch Drive forward to create slack Winch in Repeat To see if lines fall or or stay on Or get stuck between cheeks ect No drama Full details Starting next week Currently waiting on product
MATT you are not kissing there ass i won't either,The yank recovers are BS an Rory rarely goes that route i am proud to subscribe to your channel ,Rory he in fact has distanced himself from yanking the front off of vehicles. Now the want to bees like casey ,robby, an at times paul can be educated but the money is a factor .Stick to your guns ,if you run out i will bring mine. LOL
Hi Matt, I've seen your video's showing this and yes it was Florida and always hot here.. I do prefer snatch blocks for strength and reliability and have seen you prove their abilities over and over. Haven't seen the rings used for pulling anything of significant weight yet, like a stuck dump truck or semi with trailer.
I'm not an expert in any of this. But common sense tells you that a pulley moving is going to work better than one just sitting there letting the rope slide over it. Soft shackles are good for a spot you need to get ahold of. But I wouldn't even use those. I'm the kind of person who likes to not damage my recovery gear.
I like watching Robert Pepper. I think of him every time I watch you setting up your pulley systems to pull a heavy load out of the thick muck. He likes to run the pulleys directly back and forth from the target pull to get the lightest amount of force on the winch vs a pulley to the target, then one to a tree and another tree, ect., which all adds more force to the pull. At least that's the way I understand his teachings. But, admittedly, I've never pulled a thing, much less performed any testing. I like your videos because of the way you explain what is going on while you're doing it. Keep up the great work! (and I know making and editing is a lot of work, big commitment)
Help me understand this people are mad cause you called out liers, sellouts by name ? people need to stop living on feeling and start living by facts. Thank you for keeping it real and now i know who to unsubscribe too.
TH-cam isn’t about Truth, it’s about feelings. You are swimming up stream, Matt. Maybe you can spawn more brave TH-camrs?! Thanks for the great content, ugly truths and all. Peace.
We try to keep things as honest as possible But unfortunately that’s not the Popular way We will loose followers speaking truth which we are ok with that We are working on a video now About mechanical advantage And how to understand pulleys Be done this week Too many times we make a video and people Argue no no no that’s a redirect You have to go back to YOUR vehicle Or They don’t understand that if DOES magically make your winch stronger And They don’t understand that the pulley on the tree is also mechanical advantaging the pull to that tree So we want to do an in depth assessment of all things pulleys
@@matt.mckinzieI have a puny channel, but if I live closer, I’d be happy to come down and we could hook up a whole bunch of lines and cables and everything else and see what we could break or melt.
I need a winch for a 16' car hauling trailer. How many thousand pounds of pull would I need to load a 5000 vehicle up ramps 3 feet long and a few low to flat tires. All wheels roll and I currently have a 2000 pound boat winch with a strap. I wouldn't be against using a snatch block.
Tires flat Small incline You need approximately 30% of vehicles weight So a f150 at 5500lbs will need around 1700lbs Tires full and small incline needs about 20% So same f150 needs about 1100lbs with tires full on same incline Now for winches You only achieve 25% of the number on a winch 12,000 should only pull max of about 4000
I agree with your position. I watch your channel because of your technical approach to move amazing equipment. Are these other chanels misinformed or exaggerating about the manufacturer's products. Either way stay true to the truth and you cant go wrong. Its sad that there is no wrong answers and every one wins. You have to fail in order to succeed, or everyone and everything would be Vanille. God bless and keep marching forward.
not hating just made me laugh... maybe do the video in one spot and stand there and stop walking up on the camera cuz its like your going to ask me to have a set and show me my online chats... lol
Don't disagree with any of the technical points made here, but it's pretty disingenuous to call Rory's or Robby's videos "debunking". If you watch them you will see that wasn't the point or central theme at all. Whats being referred to here is a couple off hand remarks made; a few seconds out of videos 30 minutes long. I overall agree with Matt, and have wondered myself why you would want to add so much friction to a pull, but I think its a little over the top to call someone a liar because you don't agree with their methods. Are those methods the best? Doesn't look like it, but it apparently works well enough for the type of work they do.
I like that this channel is based on Facts not Sponsors. Though if you did get some you would at least not lie about the products. Thanks And it was fun to watch!
you know, new products, and you all will have to find limits, guessing at things. I just watched pepes towing out of los angeles snap line with a 50 ton winch cable flipping a loaded container up over a hill. They shrugged it off like it happens every day. I am glad there is products out there. I am still giddy over a 17k pound stretch rope I keep in my maine 4x4. ..that model has been out for a long time.
I am willing to bet you $100 I can watch that video of Pepe’s towing breaking their cable and I can tell you exactly how much weight they had on it (within 500lbs) and why it failed Also yes new products come around but science for them are the same Although yankums ring was new The design was not The friction calculations were not We learned this in crane rigging school and had to learn about friction rings Which tree guys use all the time They are great products for slowing things down Like tree limbs Or If you need to lower a climber 🧗 or Something They work great But they used a different style rope that’s good up to 320° not 150°
Oh that’s a whole another story those tires were new 8,000 miles ago And the same shop installed a new rack and pinion Did the alignment I noticed the tires were gone And was like wtf I tape measure alignment it and it was 1 and a half inch off from front to back 🤦♂️ So now I’m debating on getting 2 new of the same tires since the back are still new Or Getting 4 Mickey Thompson legends Which will fit our needs better But still be good on road
@@matt.mckinzie you sure the ball joints or wheel bearings aren't beat too? that's a lot of inside wear and cupping if you had a shop do the work I'd take it back and get it fixed again free. 8k is a bit of a stretch for a return for bad work but they need to be held liable
Just goes to show how some TH-camrs are willing to sell out their credibility for some rope and recovery toys. Rory used to be great but when he became more like HeavyD I stopped watching. Casey LaDell has always been a little arrogant beta male; I stopped watching him a long time ago. Must be a left coast thing, sell out your credibility for a buck.
I stopped watching Casey because he actually responded to me and told me he purposely created conflicts to keep the algorithm going. But I watch Rory And Robby and I like them both but when it comes to math Robby is a great body man. And Rory is very skilled but it’s all seat of the pants and just experience that allow him to do epic recoveries.
@@matt.mckinzieCasey is a truck driver heavy equipment mover. And now, tow truck operator. He also does not like being questioned why he does things the way he does. But we are all set in our ways. I guess if you are chasing TH-cam dollars. You do what you have to??
I am truly impressed by you. Can I get first hand knowledge from you. I have lots of recoveries under my belt from my time in the military. I love the idea of offering free recovery services. Can I job shadow you, and be your gofer? 100% serious!
When these rings came out they were considered junk. Then a few years latter they are better than sliced bread. I would never use one. I'll use what the real pro's use. Pulley blocks.
The way you did this video was way better then old videos. You talk in short sentences, to the point, clear, all the evidence for others to decide...it was pro all the way. If you had better video quality it would look almost studio like. Very good. And good you change the name. "Off road recovery" is "owned" by Matt in youtube search engine. You ware almost imposible to find.
The higher you pull The higher the pressure The higher the pressure The higher the friction So if you keep going up in weight You will see a higher friction loss %
This is gonna get hot between y’all. But you got the measurements, they can’t really argue that. Maybe you could have done it without calling them out Ike other guy said…but they didn’t have to call you out either. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Absolutely But Typically when the rope is on the fairlead it more or less a deflection not the full force of the winch So it would be a much lower damage Just like these guys “testing” with super light weights We have on occasion done straight side pulls in close quarters and seen damage We have also shown fairleads with major grooves in them because we have run the winches soooo much it wore grooves in them Robert Pepper has done a dedicated test regarding this We are checking out a newer product drone hawse pro with rollers designed for synthetic lines Www.hawsepro.com This is a good question by the way and people should talk about it But under “normal” winching it’s recommended to keep the line in the center area of the fairlead as much as possible and it also helps keep the winch line from binding up on one side But we all also know that isn’t always the case
@@matt.mckinzie Wow, thanks for the verbose response. I agree that under normal conditions it should not be an issue. However I see quite a few folks doing 90deg+ pulls on theirs. That Hawse Pro looks like a sweet setup! Wonder how durable they are as the base is at least 3 pieces. I would like to see one dissembled. Do they use bushings? Are the rollers on steel shafts? What size are the fasteners that hold the front roller mounts on?
@@madmodifier agreed and we have done it as well, sometimes it’s necessary. But also causes damage to both the line and fairlead We have also done a video showing how to minimize this On a Self recovery run sideways to a tree and use a pulley back to front bumper This will half the load on the fairlead lowering the pressure and lowering friction If you are doing the recovery We recommend not going back to the bumper This puts all the pressure on suspension sideways So we recommend to the rim This way it’s pulls the truck and suspension equally And it’s halving the load on the line Lowering the pressure which lowers the friction
This has been tested and it is actually recommended you use an undamaged roller fairlead on synthetic line. It is also a bad practice to pull at more then a 45 degree angle on your winch. Some hawse fairleads have been designed with a larger radius to reduce this issue but it's still just another way to reduce the life of your winch line.
@Matt McKenzie yes It's a pushing sponsor to get funding for there page as its good your testing stuff so we don't make mistakes throwing money away. As I when through a lot off recovery gear over the years.
I appreciate the use of load cells to put some numbers into play and balance the opinions. Thanks for the introduction to Safe Xtract... look like good gear, and use pulleys. Have you done a comparison between the different Hitchlinks (2" receiver)? The WLL seems to vary between the brands enough to be suspicious to me. The Max Trax has significantly higher numbers than the American versions. I am shopping for a Hitchlink and Kinetic rope for my 04 Dodge diesel 3500. I have been swayed by many an influencer and after watching your videos, I am at a loss..... Should I just look for Factor 55 and Safe Xtract here in Canada?
Hitch links are the one product that brand will not matter Cheap ones will be steal and heavy High end ones will be aluminum Higher high end ones will be anodized aluminum All will perform way above of what you need One thing to look for is the hole in it Is it rounded or sharp edges Shaper edge ones should be used with a shackle Rounded ones can be used with a shackle or soft shackle As for kinetic ropes Yankum does have good ropes They are EXACTLY the same as Factor55 ropes Which are EXACTLY the same As Monster rigging ropes So all three of them will be good Monster rigging is a small company and makes his own at his place But worked at the manufacture that made f55 and yankum for like 20 years Now if you watch project farm testing You’ll see bubba rope had the most stretch and lasted the longest And made bubba rope the BEST Performing rope available
I came to the conclusion a long time ago. About the time diesel brothers started lol. If it comes out of Utah, DO NOT believe it! Robbie is a painter, that's all he's ever been, why would anyone trust his opinion?? I wrote watching Rory the minute he started selling me stuff. Matt? Yeah, I never looked the guy, could see real fast it was about money. Paul with fab rats, is about the only one I'll watch now, and that's only his build videos. If he's recovering something, I skip the video. Utah is code for scammer
He also tells people to never tow a vehicle by the winch line but he does it himself. he does a lot of things that he says for others Not to do but youtube is full of other people who preach of things not to do and you will see them doing it anyway, such as getting off the designated trail, when they tell their viewers to never do it. and leaving damage marks onto rocks when they preach to viewers about leaving no trace. the hypocrisy is endless in the youtube verse.
I can understand a recovery channel doing things they tell you not to. Sometimes, the job requires things you're not supposed to do. You follow me around all year. I'll give you a telephone book of things not to do while I'm doing them. It's a liability thing also. With that said, the lying about stats is inexcusable. Just a regular guy breaking trail is no good. Most recovery teams do a lot to give back to the community and the trails they work doing their best to return it to how they found it. Unlike most people breaking trails. Sometimes your job requires you to do things that everyday people should never consider. It's just the way things are. I'm not excusing yankum ropes, any recovery team, or any person from doing the wrong thing. Not everything needs or should be recorded and put on the internet for every Tom Dick and Harry to watch and think "well so and so did it so can I" there's a level of risk everyone takes doing most things especially with high load involved. Be careful, Be as safe as you can, and plan for anything that can or will go wrong.
@@alexduke5402 yeah I watch one yesturday from colorado crew. he flew his drone over some meadows along the trail and pointed out some old tracks several years ago that are grown over by grass now. he preached and preached several times about how they shouldn't go off trail to by pass a mud hole. But he by passed three trees across the trail and two mud holes and he says I'm not getting my bronco in that mud as he by passes off the trail. they were using chainsaws to cut most of the trees off the trail but still drove around some, onto the grass that he preached about Not doing.
@TwoFeatherChannel see that's bull shit. He's getting paid to do a job. That job encompasses driving down muddy roads. He getting paid to come out there mud or dust doesn't matter it's a recovery vehicle. The price should reflect all maintenance needs spread out across all customers. Broken axle, maintenance, preventative maintenance, washing/ cleaning the truck. The cost is in the fee. That's good business practice. If he has to wash the truck, it's his effin JOB to wash that truck. People are getting lazy youtubers, especially and they are supposed to be leading by example. They are the creators people look up to for guidance for some reason. It's infuriating. Off road recovery and Matt's off road recovery do great jobs of it.
@@matt.mckinzie HOW much are the shirts ?? LOL put snatch block on it ,the yank roper dopers will buy all the shirts an you will be laughing all the way to the bank. note still LOL
A recovery COMPANY advertising product is entertainment? Products meant to safely recovery your family from a mountain or swamp And it’s acceptable to them to be completely fake about all the performance on that product I am willing to bet if you went and bought a new truck and it said 400hp and 25mpg city driving You drive it home and realize it has 125hp and gets 3 mpg you’d be pissed Now what if I told you that sales guy is entertainment so it’s ok 👌
I have met Rory and Robbie Layton and Casey ladelle, the are nice people. In fact I pulled Rory's old blue truck out when he got stuck at the off road games. He had no problem with me using my bubba rope. I like your recoverys but the negative videos are just that Negative
Some of us are here to learn; if the learning is entertaining, so much the better! But I got no use for lies! I watch some woodworking channels, and if someone puts out false info about crappy tools, or an unsafe practice, you better believe they are going to hear about it!!! If all people were honest, we could believe every video we see, except some obviously made to be parodies and satire and such.
Funny how they never do their tests in the same environment you were in when they try and prove you wrong 🤣🤣 I believe Florida humidity has alot of effect on the rope as well as other commenters had said in the og videos.... Casey is in the high and dry dessert.... different environments will produce different results... Casey has made videos of several different things trying to prove he is smarter than the rest of the towing industry and he makes himself look a little dumber with every video he makes... keep up the good work 👍👍
I don’t understand the point of the video. I want to see equivalent products tested. The only thing I got out of this is that yankum claims that their winch line temperature too high, and I guess the guys claim that it pulls more weight than it does even though they have it rigged properly
The company claims they have a very low friction While having extremely high friction So much that they are the worst performing ring in the world So we did an indept testing video of these They keep making videos “debunking” our findings of friction heat and damage to the lines By doing extreme light pulls Which we demonstrated by doing a similar pull with our hands and no winch The company flat out lies to sell product
2:01 i stopped watching Robby. After dinner left. I found his stuff a bit too fluffy. I figured there was a bit too much of the “ HEY THIS IS AWESOME”. To believe it. Everyone is on yankum. Doubt they’ll ever call me. Channels way too small. lol.
Jealous? Where do you get that from? I can send you photos of where yankum tried to recruit us and we declined so that makes your jealous theory invalid Bad mouthing? You mean showing video evidence of them proving false information and false advertising And then showing proof of those claims being false with the facts A good person? Do you realize how much hate comes from these videos? You realize I openly showed giant TH-camrs red handed false advertising? That means millions of their followers are instantly take their side and attack us What is easier to do Let them lie and sell you bad products Or Stand up for what’s right and put the correct information out there so people watching can understand what is and what is not the best product ? We just spent a lot of money to buy a lot of brands just to provide a test video with all the data and Information in one place so you can make an educated assessment on what’s best and who’s been lying Wouldn’t it have been easier to ignore and cheaper to ignore? I think you may need to think about some things
i quit rory because ive seen him do stuff that could damage the recovered vehicle, i quit watching Casey because the biggest part of him is his ego and he went from good content to click bait never really was into robbys stuff
Interesting video, I really don't understand why/what the purpose is to go after people...If they are fill of lies .Definitely a cut throat business if the products tubers use is not up to par be truthful. I want to know what the products are capable of. 🤔
Theres no moving oarts on the ring....friction is a given and friction makes heat. Youd have to be ignorant to say otherwise. Its physics we learn as kids and rubbing our hands together. Stop responding to rory. Hes good but hes arrogant. He will always refute your testing.
Will do the same thing If the same pressure was applied But in general the load on the hawse will be a lot less Robbery pepper also has a great video on this showing that if you do side load hard it does damage the rope It’s also why we have been looking into a roller fairlead specially made for synthetic it’s called a hawse pro Here’s a link for them hawsepro.com
I like his videos mainly for the scenic routes and the two guys he has working for him. but for advice, nope because the tube is full of them in all genres. seen it in firearm channels, outdoor channels, Jeep channels, they are everywhere.
The grill was installed because people like you said they would unfollow us if we put it on The windshield cover has done a great job at what it’s meant for We are in an area with lots of trees 🌲 And those trees likes smashing into windshields on overgrown trails
If you want to drag me into a drama fight I wasn't even aware I was stepping into that's fine. However I was just doing my job and filming it. I have never argued that a winch ring doesn't heat up, I'm aware it does. I personally haven't seen it heat up enough to damage a winch rope because I intentionally don't put those loads on the rings. If we are pulling a substantial load we use traditional snatch blocks. I was merely using the multi line pull to keep my jeep from sliding in the mud and making is so it would be slow and controlled as we did the job. I was not aware you were going to take this personally when I wasn't even fully aware of who you were till 2 days ago. Last I knew you were 'Rotator Matt'. So I really apologize for putting your panties in such a bunch. Did not mean to. I messaged you on Facebook and left my number hoping you would like to discuss this instead of going 90's rapper diss tracks and just call me out in videos. Like I said, Im sorry I offended you and I was in no way disproving your points, I was just saying I havent experienced the issues that people were saying, not realizing those people were you. And once again I promote products I use and trust. I trust yankum products, just as i trust my Factor55 products I use and many other companies products I also use.
@@trailmater Irish/Ladelle 2024 all the way please vote
So you do admit those rings cause heat and under real recovery loads you would not use them and use a regular pulley
So this directly conflicts YOUR statement that YOU made in YOUR video
I took the clip and played it so you cannot say I twisted YOUR word
There is information going around that these heat up and causes friction and hurts the line
That’s simply not true and is ridiculous
And then you come on here
Saying you are well aware they heat up and you would never use them during a hard pull
This to me makes no sense
We will agree during baby pulls they work
But honestly with the worst performance of any ring or block on the market is simply ridiculous product
@@matt.mckinzie real recovery loads? Are you saying that Rory does not do real recoveries?
I think I get it now. You feel threatened by Rory and Robby.
There can only be one true recovery guy on TH-cam. And you’re going to scream, cry, and virtue signal to see if you can reduce that threat.
Real recoveries? You would poop your pants if you were stuck with one of Rory’s real recoveries.
Unlike the people that say they’re going to unsubscribe, I’m gonna stay here till I see the video that says “I finally got what I deserved” and the thumbnail with you in a cage match with Rory. Lol
I’m assuming you did not read his comment thoroughly
Even he said during “hard” pulls he uses a regular pulley
And is aware those rings build up heat so he intentionally dosn’t use them on hard pulls
@@matt.mckinzieyou should switch to thongs. That way when you get your panties in a bunch it’s not as much material and would be more comfortable.
If something isn't the truth someone has to expose it.
Keep up the awesome work you do with your family.
Having discussions, and making videos like this, with measuring devices, helps us get closer to the truth. I'm glad people like Matt McKinzie, and Robert Pepper in Australia, both of whom I have watched for years, are very detail oriented, thorough, and truthful.
Even a rotating pulley is causing heat, I don't get how a professional recovery guy can promote a pulley ring that doesn't rotate, it's obvious they cause heat and damage to recovery ropes.
It's just basic common sense.
I don’t understand why people say you’re in a pissing contest or being generally negative. You’re dedicated to the truth regarding winching gear and respect people enough to tell the truth, call out lies and provide proof. It’s not a pissing contest if the information given is true and informative. Love this channel, fucking amazing and the information is on point. Do not change Matt, your dedication is brilliant.
I used to watch Casey. I liked that he did some good things like helping clean up abandoned vehicles in a Nat'l Forest. I made some comment about his use of technology at the gas pump, and he went off the rails on me. Even called me a conspiracy theorist, which is all right by me as most have been proven true, but it was his insultive attitude. I found him to be a left coast liberal with a big ego. I still watch Matt out in Utah some because I like his vehicle builds. I just don't understand how he can be so disorganized with his recovery equipment. He always goes out without equipment he should have. Maybe he just likes to prove he can make do.
I also watch Madd Matt down under. He seems to be a good guy.
After being a subscriber to your channel and all the channels you called out nobody pulls the kind of loads you do and rings will never be as efficient as snatch blocks. While they're good at what they do and they know what works for them, your pulls are simply amazing. I'd leave it at that and not start a fight.
I agree that they do good work especially Rory
I’ve said he’s been the best in the field for a long time
Just not sure why they insist on lying
@@matt.mckinzie A: Money and free products. Sold their souls.
@@matt.mckinzie Those are useable only cold weather and light targets. Otherwise, this is most important reason. The rope seller likes to sell "aid" which easily destroys expensive ropes. It is win-win only for their opinion. Sell rings and sell even more ropes.
You’re right. Nobody 💪🏻👍🏻
I've yet to see any type of actual rigging equipment, ie cranes ect, use any pully or sheeve that doesn't rotate. Ive been around sythetic winch line a long time workijg around derrik diggers and ships and never seen a fixed pully or sheeve. Been a crane mechanic for about 15 years and haven't seen fixed sheeves. I have been back in the offroad world for about 2 years. And wheeled with many of the big names on youtube. The only ones ive seen use one of these rings is the ones who are sponsored by the company making them.
When i posted pics of the heat rstings of the different types of synthetic winch rope on yankums videos they deleted my comments and blocked me. I dont have anything made by yankum in my jeep and never will. For one thing they are way over priced.
I 100% agree
We came from big tow trucks and rotators
Taken crane 🏗️ rigging classes and rotator school to learn rigging in all aspects of angle multipliers and load multipliers of chains, staps, and bridals, along with pulleys and sheaves
Frictions rings
You name it
8hrs a day 5 days for the crane class alone all about math
The rotator school was only 3 days tho
Definitely learned more in crane class
@matt.mckinzie yep. Been through rigging, rigging inspector, crane inspector a few times. Most the time on the trail I just let the loudest person lead the recovery. I've found they don't want to listen to anyone who knows actual rigging procedures.
@@joshuabaker5712 I did that before
Kinda
The boss begged me to. Let the other guy do it his way to keep the peace
I said it won’t work
Rigging failed
Caused the unit to fall
2 other trucks still hook both flipped over
And had kids inside one of them since the guy was on call when the call came in and had his kids with him
I’ll never sit back on a safety issue after that
Matt, I gotta admit, I feel you get into pissing wars a bit with other channels and towing outfits but this video is excellent. Without running into your channel, I would be buying the same sh*t everyone else is and not having any idea the risk I was taking. I wish you success and hope your educational content becomes mainstream. A true professional.
Matt's a man of principal, he won't sell out to Yankum, China Freight or anyone else that doesn't make a superior product.
How many times has these other guys pulled out stuck dozers and loaded dump trucks?
Exactly 😂😂😂💪🏻👍🏻
This is the truth bro!! 🤙🤙
Thats not what they do dimwit. They earn their living pulling out trucks, Jeeps, cars, ect. They are showing what works for them. Do they need to go find a dozer to pull out in order to justify their existence? Don't think so. This guy needs to chill out.
@@Ryan_Tidwell your missing the whole point of this video… pay attention to the details in the claims the other tubers are making. To answer your question, yes I absolutely agree with you, they should go find a dozer to pull out. Make sure it’s sitting in 2’ of mud too, this would even the playing ground on what they are claiming when it comes to pulling force and pure technique. I personally think you have formed very a bias opinion and you sound really stupid bro.
I have to say, from all the videos I've watched, you have made some impressive recoveries. Pulling all sorts of vehicles ranging from the small to serious heavy machinery. Along the way you've used all sorts of brands and different equipment. Seems like you grew along the way and found the right gear that worked for you. As for me myself, I have a badlands winch, warn winch lines, factor 55 pulleys, and a yankum kinetic recovery strap. I don't use any of it professionally, just recoveries of myself and my friends when we go wheeling on the weekends. I'm not partial to any piece of gear or brand, I've just used what's worked for me. I thank you for the content because what you've put out has made me more knowledgeable and better able to help my friends and I. Keep up the great work and thank you.
I don't understand the controversy, are there really people who think pulling a cable, any cable through a fixed sheave rather than a pulley is a better way to do it?
Yes a lot of people Unfortunately because they listen to their favorite guy
@@matt.mckinzie well those people lack common sense and a basic understanding of friction
I just ain't spending $150 on a plastic donut. Why reinvent the pulley with higher friction?
Then again I keep a cheap Harbor Freight comealong, recovery strap, and clevis in my truck just in case but I barely go offroading so IDK anything about this other than I'm cheap
I don't do off road driving, and I have never operated a tow truck. I have however stretched quite a bit of fence using hand tools. It only took me one experience to find out that a pulley is far superior to wrapping a rope around a tree or fence post. The same principal is at work if you are using your own muscle power or using an electric motor to do the pulling.
I won't lie, I watch TrailMater all the time and enjoy the content, however numbers also don't lie and the numbers here point to a clear outcome. I'm sure Yankum's ring works but it appears it doesn't work like they claim and that's problem. Keep up with the videos and don't falter, I'm sure there's a lot of online hate coming your way since you're taking on the big dogs..
Even if I could afford an aluminum donut, which I cant, I would never buy one. I like the versatility of a roller snatch block made of steel. If someone has steel cable on their winch and they want to borrow my snatch block its no problem. Roller bearings are much more efficient. Roller snatch blocks have been around forever. Some people just have to have the latest and greatest.
At 5:45 you need that clip from Breaking Bad “Science, bitch!”
🤣 I have not seen it but gonna look it up now
Mr Matt sells integrity
I dropped Casey after he pimped Banks and Simply Safe , Corey and Matt are still ok in my book but I do appreciate this video
lol.. You're just trolling now. hahaha..
I watch Rory.. He didn't do a "debunking" video. That truck was sliding down into the wash out and they dragged it back up on the road and just happen to use the ring because they couldn't get into a better position. Then he mentioned a few words about it.. it was never to debunk anything. Obviously, you are ALL correct. If you max out the ring, I'm sure you can get friction damage over time.. but if you use it in a normal setting, with regular sized trucks and SUV's-- it's not an issue. Especially for the amount of times that people will ever need to do this. All you guys do this for a living, and you still rarely see the rings used like this..
back to Rory: They only needed to use it as a single pulley-- but their extra line was really long, so he just routed it back to the ring so that they could take up all that extra slack. The road was very slick and slippery. They didn't have good traction at all, so they rigged up the ring so that it would have less pull on the winch truck. You already know this stuff.. It's common sense. (Could they have just tied off the winch truck to another tree behind them -- sure).
Going after Casey was one thing-- he's actually testing stuff. Rory just simply used it in a recovery; he wasn't "testing" anything. lol.
but I don't disagree: using real pulley blocks is a much better way; especially if you do this everyday.
When your saying your pulling 10x what you really are and backing a product at the same time… your providing false information dude. Thats not professional and at the same time, providing false information to a potential consume that could cause someone to get hurt. Thats the point Matt is trying to get across.
@@jnopatton Those rings have been tested to 80k lbs and still didn't break. It's not about someone getting hurt. His entire argument is that it melts and damages the rope if you use it with too much weight, or don't pause and let it cool off, or pour some water on the ring. Which is good info to know. But even in this same video, he shows how the ring does work fine for pulling a regular jeep. So he's basically playing both sides at this point.
@@calhollithe ring is not issue, it’s the rope.
If your say your pulling 15,000 lbs through a snatch ring and your truly not, that’s where the issue lies. It’d be the same thing if someone was fishing with 20lb line saying they’re catching 80lb fish. In reality it may be possible if the fish is swimming toward your the entire time and you gaff it when it gets to the boat.
Yes you used 20lb line , yes it’s a 80lb fish but did it fight? No. So you’re not actually pulling 80lbs+ with 20lb line.
I am an old heavy wrecker guy, I will only use snatch blocks and i still like wire rope.
I'm with you. Seen lots of ropes break. I've never seen a cable break. Few if any electric winches have the strength to break a cable that's not severely damaged.
Wire gives lots of signs its going bad compared to any synthetic.
Then there's the fact it can rub against anything and be fine for the most part!
Yall's industry is what made me go with wire rope too
I really dont even see the appeal of the rings a snatch block is going to take up the same amount of space
yep, good point!
What in tarnation?
I watched both Rory and Robby’s videos and I didn’t see either one of them call you out or try to debunk you.
The insecurity is strong with this one.
He’s oozing nonsense. Scanning any video he can for the “got you!”. Trying to discredit for views and clout.
The fact that nobody really cares on the west coast who this guy is lol.
The recovery types are apples and oranges.
Matt should just film recoveries. Not bother with ‘I’m right bs’ but, he has an ego to feed.
You speak the truth and hold your values to dictate how you speak to people and operate your business. People forget that if some of these products are used to the way some lie about them they put there family and themselves in jeopardy. Amen sir thank you for being you and having your channel. Maybe these companies should come to you first.
Rory has been doing recoveries longer than you've been alive I guarantee he knows more than you do
I won’t disagree with you on that
Because I do think he does great work
With that said
He knew that video was a Hack when they did it
😂
Doing it longer doesn't equate to doing it best or correctly.
@@marklowe330well actually in Rory’s favour. Using more gear then you need is safer. As you don’t stress the gear.
But you have to explain why, lower pulling line pressure. Less heat. Making Matt correct. And Rory to his credit did say on heavy pulls he uses snatch blocks. Or did I get that wrong??
@@marklowe330 and all the years I've been watching trail mater I've never seen him melt the rope or anything like that so we must be doing something right
As always, sir, much respect! I know that you are sponsored by certain things, but you are still a very honest person. Thank you for setting the record straight and I think you should hold onto one of his rings and challenge him to an in person live feed to show his stuff failing so that way he can’t bring some other Ring, that’s specifically treated compared to what he normally sells.
I mean, yeah in a perfect world you would use his ring in 40° weather with sleet lol Come to South Florida in August and get buried to your axles in sugar sand and come try that ring.
Hi Do you interested in adding some LED upgrade or a switch panel to your rig? We hope to do some sponsorship with you!
Email received and will get back to you tomorrow
@@matt.mckinzie OK! Looking forward to hear from you sir:)
You are the best and intelligent among others offroad recovery. Cheers to that
You are right. Only positive to the Death Bagels is that if it goes flying, it less likely to k!II you than the proper pulley, but your rigging will more likely to go flying if you are damaging the winch line with Death Bagels.
Matt i watch Rory and Robbie and will continue to do so they are entertaining. However you sir are educational and professional ive seen someone hurt offroading its not nice . Keep the videos coming cheers from down under !
I love this video. Thanks for the info. I hate it when someone holds their sponsors to a high level. I never got anything from yankum rops manly because I thought their products were too high. I do have some rino usa products. I was going to buy one of them types of donut type snatch blocks until I saw one of your recoveries saying they were not good to use. I hate it when companies lie just to make a sell.
Matt your closing statement , I agree 100% with you. Never sell your soul , stick to the facts ..
Got a feeling this will get really interesting soon..I wonder if any other youtube recovery services would step up and agree to an actual test of the yankum rings vs snatchblocks, using strain gauges, etc, similar to what you've done here?
Matt, I know that you are super passionate about winching but you do not have to be chasing after every sentence of every person ever out there saying something. In full context that exact quote had nothing to do with debunking you or promoting a product. He said it "like it was not that big of a deal" and the man routinely uses harbor freight snatch blocks as his preference of choice. Out west your "loads" on rope are nowhere near what stress you put them under. I put close to 4000 miles in moab and colorado and you never have to pull bulldozers out of red rock, get semis unstuck from a swamp or some other stuff... which is why for most non super duty applications (which is 99.9% of trailmater content) you never get within a mile of limits of anything in use. I have watched all of Rory's videos for years and breaking rope is not a problem he ever talked about... I am sure at this point we would have already seen it.
BUT... you are as always right about limits and loads so from engineering perspective and all this technical stuff you are correct. It is just that out west you can't really get "properly stuck" even if you tried unless you get caught in a flash flood and then its really a salvage operation.
I second the idea of different environments resulting in different loads and gear. Case in point, Rory's primary product on Yankum Ropes website, the Trail Mater Rope, is a 10' long 3/4" kinetic rope for pulling buggies and 2 Door Jeeps in tight, twisty locations over rocks and loose sand in Moab. He's not even in your league of recoveries and equipment for the vast majority of his videos. Keep up the good work! Be the best Matt McKinzie you can be! Personally, I live around clay and black gumbo, drive a 4x4 dually, and have a 25K winch. I don't own donuts, nor do I use typical snatch blocks except for a light redirect. I use full-sized industrial 8-ton WLL greaseable snatch blocks with a 6" sheave when I need the power of a double line or greater pull.
The toy donuts may be ok out west but that's not how they are marketed. They are marketed as a high load product. That when use as advertised will toast a synthetic rope. I saw that on the, I'm alway right Casey show. When loaded the donut eats the coating off the rope. If the coating doesn't matter, why is it even on there?
I would love to see project farm or torque test channel get in on these tests. I feel like the info they would find would completely support your findings
They would but we just decided to do a full in depth test
We ordered $2,000 worth of ring and pulleys
From safe extract
Arb
Gear America
Some china crap
Bee safe recovery gear rejected our order and dosnt want it tested
We will be using 3 load cells
One before the ring
One on the ring
One after the ring
This will show us real data of friction loss
And
Final output for mechanical advantage
We will also be weighing all of them to see the weight differences
We will be doing a heat thermal imaging during the test to show heat on the line and soft shackle
We will also be doing a line retention test
Winch
Drive forward to create slack
Winch in
Repeat
To see if lines fall or or stay on
Or get stuck between cheeks ect
No drama
Full details
Starting next week
Currently waiting on product
Do racing engines use flat tapped lifters or roller lifters. It’s pretty obvious that rollers have less friction. It’s not rocket science
MATT you are not kissing there ass i won't either,The yank recovers are BS an Rory rarely goes that route i am proud to subscribe to your channel ,Rory he in fact has distanced himself from yanking the front off of vehicles. Now the want to bees like casey ,robby, an at times paul can be educated but the money is a factor .Stick to your guns ,if you run out i will bring mine. LOL
Hi Matt, I've seen your video's showing this and yes it was Florida and always hot here..
I do prefer snatch blocks for strength and reliability and have seen you prove their abilities over and over. Haven't seen the rings used for pulling anything of significant weight yet, like a stuck dump truck or semi with trailer.
I'm not an expert in any of this. But common sense tells you that a pulley moving is going to work better than one just sitting there letting the rope slide over it. Soft shackles are good for a spot you need to get ahold of. But I wouldn't even use those. I'm the kind of person who likes to not damage my recovery gear.
Great job, debunking the debunkers! These people are the democrats of recovery industry, Believe me, not your lying eyes
You get my vote.
Seems like common sense that the pulley block is WAY less friction than the doughnut pulley which is 100% friction
I like watching Robert Pepper. I think of him every time I watch you setting up your pulley systems to pull a heavy load out of the thick muck. He likes to run the pulleys directly back and forth from the target pull to get the lightest amount of force on the winch vs a pulley to the target, then one to a tree and another tree, ect., which all adds more force to the pull. At least that's the way I understand his teachings. But, admittedly, I've never pulled a thing, much less performed any testing. I like your videos because of the way you explain what is going on while you're doing it. Keep up the great work! (and I know making and editing is a lot of work, big commitment)
Keep up with the good work
thank you for all the information as a new off-roader I’ve been using your tips of how to do heavy pulling thanks again!!
Some people still refuse to stop using chains.
Help me understand this people are mad cause you called out liers, sellouts by name ? people need to stop living on feeling and start living by facts. Thank you for keeping it real and now i know who to unsubscribe too.
Yes they are mad I used their names and those are their favorite guys
But they will never be mad at their favorite guys for lying tho
Keep up the great work. Thanks for providing demonstrations based on facts, physics and engineering.
Keep up the good work man in a world where people only care about a dollar you keep honest to your word and nothing else
TH-cam isn’t about Truth, it’s about feelings. You are swimming up stream, Matt. Maybe you can spawn more brave TH-camrs?!
Thanks for the great content, ugly truths and all. Peace.
We try to keep things as honest as possible
But unfortunately that’s not the Popular way
We will loose followers speaking truth which we are ok with that
We are working on a video now
About mechanical advantage
And how to understand pulleys
Be done this week
Too many times we make a video and people
Argue no no no that’s a redirect
You have to go back to YOUR vehicle
Or
They don’t understand that if DOES magically make your winch stronger
And
They don’t understand that the pulley on the tree is also mechanical advantaging the pull to that tree
So we want to do an in depth assessment of all things pulleys
@@matt.mckinzieI have a puny channel, but if I live closer, I’d be happy to come down and we could hook up a whole bunch of lines and cables and everything else and see what we could break or melt.
I need a winch for a 16' car hauling trailer.
How many thousand pounds of pull would I need to load a 5000 vehicle up ramps 3 feet long and a few low to flat tires.
All wheels roll and I currently have a 2000 pound boat winch with a strap.
I wouldn't be against using a snatch block.
Tires flat
Small incline
You need approximately 30% of vehicles weight
So a f150 at 5500lbs will need around 1700lbs
Tires full and small incline needs about 20%
So same f150 needs about 1100lbs with tires full on same incline
Now for winches
You only achieve 25% of the number on a winch
12,000 should only pull max of about 4000
How to get noticed when your mad you can’t get noticed.. callout someone with allot more subs to try and get views that’s how.
Rory for sale, Robbie is childish
Thanks again Matt. The biggest reason I watch your videos is to learn, and I always do. Keep up the great work!
I agree with your position. I watch your channel because of your technical approach to move amazing equipment. Are these other chanels misinformed or exaggerating about the manufacturer's products. Either way stay true to the truth and you cant go wrong. Its sad that there is no wrong answers and every one wins. You have to fail in order to succeed, or everyone and everything would be Vanille. God bless and keep marching forward.
I love how the video includes multiple clips of you standing in different spots and walking up to the camera repeatedly...
not hating just made me laugh... maybe do the video in one spot and stand there and stop walking up on the camera cuz its like your going to ask me to have a set and show me my online chats... lol
Don't disagree with any of the technical points made here, but it's pretty disingenuous to call Rory's or Robby's videos "debunking". If you watch them you will see that wasn't the point or central theme at all. Whats being referred to here is a couple off hand remarks made; a few seconds out of videos 30 minutes long.
I overall agree with Matt, and have wondered myself why you would want to add so much friction to a pull, but I think its a little over the top to call someone a liar because you don't agree with their methods. Are those methods the best? Doesn't look like it, but it apparently works well enough for the type of work they do.
I like that this channel is based on Facts not Sponsors.
Though if you did get some you would at least not lie about the products.
Thanks And it was fun to watch!
you know, new products, and you all will have to find limits, guessing at things. I just watched pepes towing out of los angeles snap line with a 50 ton winch cable flipping a loaded container up over a hill. They shrugged it off like it happens every day. I am glad there is products out there. I am still giddy over a 17k pound stretch rope I keep in my maine 4x4. ..that model has been out for a long time.
I am willing to bet you $100
I can watch that video of Pepe’s towing breaking their cable and I can tell you exactly how much weight they had on it (within 500lbs) and why it failed
Also yes new products come around but science for them are the same
Although yankums ring was new
The design was not
The friction calculations were not
We learned this in crane rigging school and had to learn about friction rings
Which tree guys use all the time
They are great products for slowing things down
Like tree limbs
Or
If you need to lower a climber 🧗 or
Something
They work great
But they used a different style rope that’s good up to 320° not 150°
@@matt.mckinzie I believe they use Kernmantle rope.
Jason is super careful with loads and ratings, and explains it well.
@@RealJeep containers are the number 1 cause of rolled over tow trucks
Lots of failures have happened and cause lines to fail and take trucks over
10:42 getting every last cent out of that front end and those tires lol
Oh that’s a whole another story those tires were new 8,000 miles ago
And the same shop installed a new rack and pinion
Did the alignment
I noticed the tires were gone
And was like wtf
I tape measure alignment it and it was 1 and a half inch off from front to back 🤦♂️
So now I’m debating on getting 2 new of the same tires since the back are still new
Or
Getting 4 Mickey Thompson legends
Which will fit our needs better
But still be good on road
@@matt.mckinzie you sure the ball joints or wheel bearings aren't beat too? that's a lot of inside wear and cupping
if you had a shop do the work I'd take it back and get it fixed again free. 8k is a bit of a stretch for a return for bad work but they need to be held liable
@@matt.mckinziei like Mickey tees. You know they sell blemish tires to
Just goes to show how some TH-camrs are willing to sell out their credibility for some rope and recovery toys. Rory used to be great but when he became more like HeavyD I stopped watching. Casey LaDell has always been a little arrogant beta male; I stopped watching him a long time ago. Must be a left coast thing, sell out your credibility for a buck.
I stopped watching Casey because he actually responded to me and told me he purposely created conflicts to keep the algorithm going. But I watch Rory And Robby and I like them both but when it comes to math Robby is a great body man. And Rory is very skilled but it’s all seat of the pants and just experience that allow him to do epic recoveries.
Robby does do great body work we have seen his work and it’s really good
Rory does great recovery work as well
Casey is Casey
@@matt.mckinzieCasey is a truck driver heavy equipment mover. And now, tow truck operator. He also does not like being questioned why he does things the way he does. But we are all set in our ways.
I guess if you are chasing TH-cam dollars. You do what you have to??
@@DIRTVENTURE when you say does not like being questioned, you meant to say called out on lies
@@matt.mckinzieno I meant other questions. About how he’s hooked up
@@matt.mckinzieI meant questions about why he’s hooked up one way or another.
Hey Matt, off topic. What winch mount do you have on your F150?
Rough country Hidden Mount
@@matt.mckinzie Is it worth the investment?
I am truly impressed by you. Can I get first hand knowledge from you. I have lots of recoveries under my belt from my time in the military. I love the idea of offering free recovery services.
Can I job shadow you, and be your gofer?
100% serious!
We have no problem with ride alongs and welcome them
It’s just hard to schedule since most jobs are
Ring ring hey can you come now
Amen brother, I think I remember watching Casey do that test and I do remember thinking, wow that rope is damaged, it's melting!
When these rings came out they were considered junk. Then a few years latter they are better than sliced bread.
I would never use one. I'll use what the real pro's use. Pulley blocks.
New to all of this would an aluminum recovery ring be ok for an 1900 lbs six’s or do they damage the rope also thank you
The way you did this video was way better then old videos. You talk in short sentences, to the point, clear, all the evidence for others to decide...it was pro all the way. If you had better video quality it would look almost studio like. Very good. And good you change the name. "Off road recovery" is "owned" by Matt in youtube search engine. You ware almost imposible to find.
Love this video
I have never seen so much junk being pushed out there TH-cam is the worst and misleading advertisement
the friction and loss in pulling power is enough to not use them. would like to see what happens when you max out the winch.
The higher you pull
The higher the pressure
The higher the pressure
The higher the friction
So if you keep going up in weight
You will see a higher friction loss %
@matt.mckinzie my point exactly, a 4to1 rigging might be less than 2x effective at 12,000 line pull
This is gonna get hot between y’all. But you got the measurements, they can’t really argue that. Maybe you could have done it without calling them out Ike other guy said…but they didn’t have to call you out either. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Tell us how you really feel, lol.
Wouldn't this mean that synthetic fairleads could also cause degradation due to critical temps fairly easily? They are a friction device as well.
Absolutely
But
Typically when the rope is on the fairlead it more or less a deflection not the full force of the winch
So it would be a much lower damage
Just like these guys “testing” with super light weights
We have on occasion done straight side pulls in close quarters and seen damage
We have also shown fairleads with major grooves in them because we have run the winches soooo much it wore grooves in them
Robert Pepper has done a dedicated test regarding this
We are checking out a newer product drone hawse pro with rollers designed for synthetic lines
Www.hawsepro.com
This is a good question by the way and people should talk about it
But under “normal” winching it’s recommended to keep the line in the center area of the fairlead as much as possible and it also helps keep the winch line from binding up on one side
But we all also know that isn’t always the case
@@matt.mckinzie Wow, thanks for the verbose response. I agree that under normal conditions it should not be an issue. However I see quite a few folks doing 90deg+ pulls on theirs. That Hawse Pro looks like a sweet setup! Wonder how durable they are as the base is at least 3 pieces. I would like to see one dissembled. Do they use bushings? Are the rollers on steel shafts? What size are the fasteners that hold the front roller mounts on?
@@madmodifier agreed and we have done it as well, sometimes it’s necessary. But also causes damage to both the line and fairlead
We have also done a video showing how to minimize this
On a
Self recovery run sideways to a tree and use a pulley back to front bumper
This will half the load on the fairlead lowering the pressure and lowering friction
If you are doing the recovery
We recommend not going back to the bumper
This puts all the pressure on suspension sideways
So we recommend to the rim
This way it’s pulls the truck and suspension equally
And it’s halving the load on the line
Lowering the pressure which lowers the friction
This has been tested and it is actually recommended you use an undamaged roller fairlead on synthetic line. It is also a bad practice to pull at more then a 45 degree angle on your winch. Some hawse fairleads have been designed with a larger radius to reduce this issue but it's still just another way to reduce the life of your winch line.
@@Colorado4x4RescueandRecovery agreed and we have shown all of that with documents 📑
@Matt McKenzie yes It's a pushing sponsor to get funding for there page as its good your testing stuff so we don't make mistakes throwing money away.
As I when through a lot off recovery gear over the years.
I appreciate the use of load cells to put some numbers into play and balance the opinions.
Thanks for the introduction to Safe Xtract... look like good gear, and use pulleys.
Have you done a comparison between the different Hitchlinks (2" receiver)? The WLL seems to vary between the brands enough to be suspicious to me. The Max Trax has significantly higher numbers than the American versions.
I am shopping for a Hitchlink and Kinetic rope for my 04 Dodge diesel 3500. I have been swayed by many an influencer and after watching your videos, I am at a loss..... Should I just look for Factor 55 and Safe Xtract here in Canada?
Hitch links are the one product that brand will not matter
Cheap ones will be steal and heavy
High end ones will be aluminum
Higher high end ones will be anodized aluminum
All will perform way above of what you need
One thing to look for is the hole in it
Is it rounded or sharp edges
Shaper edge ones should be used with a shackle
Rounded ones can be used with a shackle or soft shackle
As for kinetic ropes
Yankum does have good ropes
They are EXACTLY the same as
Factor55 ropes
Which are EXACTLY the same
As Monster rigging ropes
So all three of them will be good
Monster rigging is a small company and makes his own at his place
But worked at the manufacture that made f55 and yankum for like 20 years
Now if you watch project farm testing
You’ll see bubba rope had the most stretch and lasted the longest
And made bubba rope the BEST
Performing rope available
This is the reason I fowel you. God bless you and your family.
right on brother
Thanks for being straight forward. I’ve learned a lot from this channel.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago. About the time diesel brothers started lol. If it comes out of Utah, DO NOT believe it! Robbie is a painter, that's all he's ever been, why would anyone trust his opinion?? I wrote watching Rory the minute he started selling me stuff. Matt? Yeah, I never looked the guy, could see real fast it was about money. Paul with fab rats, is about the only one I'll watch now, and that's only his build videos. If he's recovering something, I skip the video. Utah is code for scammer
I have the Badlands snatch block and it works great to pull my 6000 pound Bronco.
He also tells people to never tow a vehicle by the winch line but he does it himself.
he does a lot of things that he says for others Not to do but youtube is full of other people who preach of things not to do and you will see them doing it anyway, such as getting off the designated trail, when they tell their viewers to never do it. and leaving damage marks onto rocks when they preach to viewers about leaving no trace.
the hypocrisy is endless in the youtube verse.
I can understand a recovery channel doing things they tell you not to. Sometimes, the job requires things you're not supposed to do. You follow me around all year. I'll give you a telephone book of things not to do while I'm doing them. It's a liability thing also.
With that said, the lying about stats is inexcusable. Just a regular guy breaking trail is no good. Most recovery teams do a lot to give back to the community and the trails they work doing their best to return it to how they found it. Unlike most people breaking trails. Sometimes your job requires you to do things that everyday people should never consider. It's just the way things are. I'm not excusing yankum ropes, any recovery team, or any person from doing the wrong thing. Not everything needs or should be recorded and put on the internet for every Tom Dick and Harry to watch and think "well so and so did it so can I" there's a level of risk everyone takes doing most things especially with high load involved. Be careful, Be as safe as you can, and plan for anything that can or will go wrong.
@@alexduke5402 yeah I watch one yesturday from colorado crew. he flew his drone over some meadows along the trail and pointed out some old tracks several years ago that are grown over by grass now. he preached and preached several times about how they shouldn't go off trail to by pass a mud hole.
But he by passed three trees across the trail and two mud holes and he says I'm not getting my bronco in that mud as he by passes off the trail.
they were using chainsaws to cut most of the trees off the trail but still drove around some, onto the grass that he preached about Not doing.
@TwoFeatherChannel see that's bull shit. He's getting paid to do a job. That job encompasses driving down muddy roads. He getting paid to come out there mud or dust doesn't matter it's a recovery vehicle. The price should reflect all maintenance needs spread out across all customers. Broken axle, maintenance, preventative maintenance, washing/ cleaning the truck. The cost is in the fee. That's good business practice. If he has to wash the truck, it's his effin JOB to wash that truck. People are getting lazy youtubers, especially and they are supposed to be leading by example. They are the creators people look up to for guidance for some reason. It's infuriating. Off road recovery and Matt's off road recovery do great jobs of it.
Your just like Casey, work that algorithm,,,,,can't wait for the i hate Matt Mckinzie shirt 😂
🤣
@@matt.mckinzie HOW much are the shirts ?? LOL put snatch block on it ,the yank roper dopers will buy all the shirts an you will be laughing all the way to the bank. note still LOL
@@GEORGEHATTON-s9u 🤣 we don’t make the shirts 👕 a third party does
I like my Roller Fairlead and 3/8 steel cable with a snatch block. I like living in the danger zone. 👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
If you switch to synthetic look at these fairleads
Www.hawsepro.com
@@matt.mckinziewhat line manufacturer do you recommend for synthetic? Looking at making the switch from steel myself…
It's called entertainment, don't believe everything you see on the internet
A recovery COMPANY advertising product is entertainment?
Products meant to safely recovery your family from a mountain or swamp
And it’s acceptable to them to be completely fake about all the performance on that product
I am willing to bet if you went and bought a new truck and it said 400hp and 25mpg city driving
You drive it home and realize it has 125hp and gets 3 mpg you’d be pissed
Now what if I told you that sales guy is entertainment so it’s ok 👌
I have met Rory and Robbie Layton and Casey ladelle, the are nice people. In fact I pulled Rory's old blue truck out when he got stuck at the off road games. He had no problem with me using my bubba rope. I like your recoverys but the negative videos are just that Negative
@@damienaube9518 With one finger, point to the spot where Matt hurt your feelings.
Some of us are here to learn; if the learning is entertaining, so much the better! But I got no use for lies! I watch some woodworking channels, and if someone puts out false info about crappy tools, or an unsafe practice, you better believe they are going to hear about it!!! If all people were honest, we could believe every video we see, except some obviously made to be parodies and satire and such.
I just feel there is a better way, Matt is very good at what he does .he shouldn't have to rear down someone else to make a point
Funny how they never do their tests in the same environment you were in when they try and prove you wrong 🤣🤣 I believe Florida humidity has alot of effect on the rope as well as other commenters had said in the og videos.... Casey is in the high and dry dessert.... different environments will produce different results... Casey has made videos of several different things trying to prove he is smarter than the rest of the towing industry and he makes himself look a little dumber with every video he makes... keep up the good work 👍👍
I don’t understand the point of the video. I want to see equivalent products tested. The only thing I got out of this is that yankum claims that their winch line temperature too high, and I guess the guys claim that it pulls more weight than it does even though they have it rigged properly
The company claims they have a very low friction
While having extremely high friction
So much that they are the worst performing ring in the world
So we did an indept testing video of these
They keep making videos “debunking” our findings of friction heat and damage to the lines
By doing extreme light pulls
Which we demonstrated by doing a similar pull with our hands and no winch
The company flat out lies to sell product
2:01 i stopped watching Robby. After dinner left. I found his stuff a bit too fluffy.
I figured there was a bit too much of the “ HEY THIS IS AWESOME”. To believe it. Everyone is on yankum. Doubt they’ll ever call me. Channels way too small. lol.
Matt Mckinkie, jealous doesn't look good on you.
Bad mouthing and trashing someone is not being a good person. Thank you for showing us the real you.
😂 How do you get mad at someone telling the truth?
@jnopatton that’s the American way
Jealous? Where do you get that from?
I can send you photos of where yankum tried to recruit us and we declined so that makes your jealous theory invalid
Bad mouthing?
You mean showing video evidence of them proving false information and false advertising
And then showing proof of those claims being false with the facts
A good person?
Do you realize how much hate comes from these videos?
You realize I openly showed giant TH-camrs red handed false advertising?
That means millions of their followers are instantly take their side and attack us
What is easier to do
Let them lie and sell you bad products
Or
Stand up for what’s right and put the correct information out there so people watching can understand what is and what is not the best product ?
We just spent a lot of money to buy a lot of brands just to provide a test video with all the data and Information in one place so you can make an educated assessment on what’s best and who’s been lying
Wouldn’t it have been easier to ignore and cheaper to ignore?
I think you may need to think about some things
@matt.mckinzie just like crabs in a bucket. When one climbs higher, there's another pulling it down. A narcissist is never in the wrong, ever.
So is a normal snatch block ok like the badlands or one from tractor supply?
the 20k greasable snatch block from traveler at tractor supply is great well worth the money especially if your in the mud and wet
Yes they are pretty much identical to the badlands
It’s a simple proven design
Many companies have similar styles
i quit rory because ive seen him do stuff that could damage the recovered vehicle, i quit watching Casey because the biggest part of him is his ego and he went from good content to click bait never really was into robbys stuff
Interesting video, I really don't understand
why/what the purpose is to go after people...If they are fill of lies .Definitely a cut throat business if the products tubers use is not up to par be truthful. I want to know what the products are capable of. 🤔
Theres no moving oarts on the ring....friction is a given and friction makes heat. Youd have to be ignorant to say otherwise. Its physics we learn as kids and rubbing our hands together. Stop responding to rory. Hes good but hes arrogant. He will always refute your testing.
Casey is just a prick.
Soooo.....what does all this say about synthetic winch line and side loading a hawse fairlead?
Will do the same thing
If the same pressure was applied
But in general the load on the hawse will be a lot less
Robbery pepper also has a great video on this showing that if you do side load hard it does damage the rope
It’s also why we have been looking into a roller fairlead specially made for synthetic it’s called a hawse pro
Here’s a link for them
hawsepro.com
@@matt.mckinzie Would love to see you do some testing on the hawes pro @hawseprollc2992. Seems like a very interesting and innovative product.
Go get them Australia
Bold talk. Awfully loose with that 'liar' word.
I’m curious if all the same things apply to the factor 55 rings. I see you have their decals on your trucks so I assume some relationship there.
Guess you didn’t make it to the end of the video
@@matt.mckinzielol… I just got to that point. Sorry
I thought this was put to bed with your first video.
You are correct brother
I can't stand a TH-camr that lies like that guy
I like his videos mainly for the scenic routes and the two guys he has working for him. but for advice, nope because the tube is full of them in all genres. seen it in firearm channels, outdoor channels, Jeep channels, they are everywhere.
blaa, blaa, blaa ---- Every tool has its own use. ---
Your grill and windshield cover make this video irrelevant
The grill was installed because people like you said they would unfollow us if we put it on
The windshield cover has done a great job at what it’s meant for
We are in an area with lots of trees 🌲
And those trees likes smashing into windshields on overgrown trails
I’ve pulled my subscription and have completely stopped all support for Mr. Irish. It seems that this is a pattern of his.