Free speech is absolutely essential. As a survivor of communism, it makes me sick to my bones that the political mainstream in the EU and US disagrees with that.
The intention of the First Amendment was not to protect speech you agree with. There would hardly be a need for a free speech provision in the Constitution if this were the case. The First Amendment was authored to protect the speech you vehemently disagree with.
I think many people who oppose free speech do not believe their free speech will ever be compromised. But the inevitable outcome is that unpleasant powerful people will gain more power without dissent, then silence the peasants that silenced the dissenters. If history repeats itself, the most fervent bullies who enthrone a despot would be among the first to go. The powerful do not want rabble-rousers in THEIR new society.
Similar to how I felt about the mandates during COVID. Sure, you may want the V this time around… but what about in 5 years, when the govt tries to pull this stunt all over again? Do you really want to outsource your physical health & wellbeing to our incompetent and/or corrupt govt? When has govt EVER cared about our health, truly? How many times have they been caught lying? Even if you are happy to have recieved the V, you should still fiercely oppose mandates. Do not outsource your health to ANYONE. It is your most precious gift and you must protect it at all costs. Esp when known criminals stand to make billions of dollars from mass compliance…
This is what has always struck me, about the giant, glaring self-contradiction in modern, "woke"/"progressive" left's approach to free speech. Probably the single MOST central, foundational idea in "progressive" ideology, is their belief (correct or not) that they're "fighting oppression", and that all their designated-victim "minority" demographics, gays and lesbians, women, trans, black and other racial minorities, etc, are all horribly "oppressed", by society at large, but especially by "the system"- gov't, non-governmental Institutions, big corporations, etc. But I grew up, as a black kid, under the tail end of the apartheid regime, in South Africa; I don't like throwing around the word "oppression", but I'm pretty sure even they would probably concede, that South Africa in the 80s and early 90's was more "oppression", than anyone in a Western nation, in 2024, is facing. And what that experience taught me, is that if you allow exceptions to protection of free speech (not "exceptions" like the exceptionz for threats, or certain types of pcrn. But "exceptions" like "you have free speech... EXCEPT if you're in X-group, or believe in X-idea...), then any genuinely "oppressed" group will ALWAYS be the first to be silenced. And by allowing such exceptions to free speech (ANY exception that isn't universally and consistently applied), they're automatically trusting the system that THEY CLAIM to be "oppressive", to decide which groups/ideas get silenced, and which don't. They view "oppression" as some weird kind of fixed, unchanging, immutable trait, that certain groups inherently have (those groups listed above- gays and lesbians, women, etc), while other groups inherently CAN'T EVER be "oppressed" (men, heterosexuals, white people, Christians, conservatives, etc). But REAL "oppression" doesn't work that way- Real "oppression" is a moving target, which shifts over time, and can potentially apply to ANY group... Ironically, especially if you decree that group as being "inherently privileged/ NOT oppressed", therefore we never have to worry about the rights/"oppression" of THAT group... that's basically a fast-track to ensuring that group DOES get discriminated against/"oppressed". I know it's a cliche, but 30's Germany was a prime example, where Jews were seen as inherently "privileged", and even as the "oppressor" class, who "oppressing" the German people... which was how their treatment was justified, and seen as acceptable, by everyday Germans. I feel like this USED to be a given, but it's fallen by the wayside, with the moden left's bizarre distortions of words like "equality" and "equal rights".... But the reason why GENUINE equality, consistently applied accross ALL groups, without any disclaimers or exceptions, is vital, is that you will inevitably create real oppression/discrimination, ANY time you make exceptions from basic rights, for ANY one group/ideology.
I recently read The Coddling of the American Mind for the first time and was so thoroughly impressed I'm about to start a second reading with proper note taking. The Canceling is on my reading list soon as well. As someone presently in academia, I find it hard to envision how the institution can rebound after everything that has gone on for well over a decade now. Not that it necessarily, absolutely can't be done, but I personally can't see how. I presently want no part of it but need to stay the course until I have my professional credential. The work Greg and others are doing trying to right the ship are so necessary, and beyond appreciated. Thanks for this conversation as always, Peter - great guest, high quality, insightful conversation. Cheers!
Since we are going to name drop my friend billy wilson who had an article published in the elementary school paper when we were 8 years old once wrote, “America, hell yeah.”
Great terrific So full of excellent commentary I’m forever grateful to your work and the guests you have on Please stay strong and never give up From a 66 year old who never went to uni But feel I’m now being educated From Adelaide Australia Are we awake now🕊
12:39 Go back to the late 1980s and early 1990s, during the initial big push for politically correct ideology. If you asked a PC advocate what their behavioral expectations were of other human beings vis-à-vis free speech, they would likely tell you that remaining silent about controversial issues or provocative personal opinions is merely a form of congenial politeness. This flawed philosophy was never successfully extinguished 25 years ago, so it was permitted to morph into today's, more dangerously authoritarian form of censorship and persecution.
I've bought the book (in Dutch) just a month ago. I had read it from the library a few years ago but I wanted to own it because it is an important book, also here in the Netherlands.
I'm not even ten seconds in to this one, and I'm already intrigued. The phrase 'coddling cognitive distortions' is a fantastic way to explain so much of the craziness we have all seen spiralling out of control these past 10 years or so.
Do you get little warnings from YT? They threaten suspension, banning, deplatforming We probably all have accounts/channels here so I don't want to lose it, but I don't want to be bullied either.
The FIRE team does impeccable work, however, I feel there is a distinction being missed with respect to how they rate overtly private religious institutions and publicly funded universities by the same standard. I don’t think we would view it as a violation of free speech if a church bared a speaker from coming to a service and expressing views antithetical to their values in the place they view as their ‘religious home’. I think many students at private religious universities have a similar sense about their institution. That said, I do think it an issue if people from the same religious university are putting those same limits on free speech outside of their institution, and that is the distinction I’d like to see measured.
22:20 this whole part of the conversation…I was rolling my eyes by this point. WE GET IT lmao There’s only so many times you need to say “I am a really humble person, but wow look at how many famous incredible intelligent top of society people I now move amongst!” It’s fine to have all these friends. Harping on and on about the fact that you want to talk about them but don’t want to sound boastful because in fact you are humble is incredibly tedious and by the end achieves the opposite if your intention is to come off as humble. Love ya Peter, but this segment got skin crawly. It’s irrelevant to me who you are friends with.
It's one thing to be of a temperament that is extra-sensitive ( Empath is a popular term, at least in a variety of YT psychology-related videos ), it's another thing to insist on being "fragile", which often has seemed quite narcissistic. ( A multitude of YT videos speaking against that trait or full-blown NPD. ) My appreciation to Greg for his efforts to instill greater resilience and a "thicker skin" into our society and culture.
There is no “hate speech” exception to the First Amendment. So, many Americans wonder: Is hate speech legal? Contrary to a common misconception, most expression one might identify as “hate speech” is protected by the First Amendment and cannot lawfully be censored, punished, or unduly burdened by the government - including public colleges and universities.
21:12 it's terrifying being the smartest person in the room, because now you're the one who should be held accountable because you should know better. It fills me with peace knowing people like y'all and Douglas (DOUGIE!!) exist.
I haven't read full books by Fish, but I have used his essay "Conspiracy Theories 101" for discussion in my composition classes. It yielded some pretty good discussion sometimes.
Have you done an episode on the paradox of tolerance? I feel like most people on the left see this as an excuse for not allowing speech they disagree with.
the thing is how to encourage/get people to put more stock on being correct than winning (whatever, something important to them) your often example of at 30k feet in the sky in an airplane wokism and virtual signaling not only have no value/win but very certain to guarantee a large hole in the ground for everyone on board. the thing is most situation is not a plane in the sky spiraling out of control, slowly where no one seem to notice and signalling dominates both sides, woke left and woke right, who to send to the pilot's chair. the captain is right there extolling the virtues and importance of free speech too, or as the case may be isn't. correct speech or proper speech is smallest subset of all speeches because everyone may be free to speak but not everyone can be correct (when they disagree) at the same time about the same things.
I got suspended from FB for 48 hours for suggesting some women might regret their decision to have an ab*rtion while prefacing my comment with "women have the right to choose." And YT is better ime.
Don't you think the transition to an AGE OF VICTIMHOOD - Needs to be addressed head on ? Victimhood pays. Are we going to ignore the fact that everyone needs resources and victims get resources. There's nothing wrong with victims gaining acces to resources. Victims deserve justice and recompense if they live in a society that values justice and has some sense of compassion and fairness. But when predators can hijack any legit victimhood movement using soc med and digital savvy - We have a problem that's not going away. Victimhood pays and the wolves in sheeps clothing know this damn well. Idk how to address this phenomenon head on, or even at an angle... - Any Bright Ideas here ?
It needs to become more stigmatised to take on victimhood when it's not justified. Similar to the concept of cheating. Alongside that, we need to return to an understanding of objective not subjective truth. I don't know how to achieve this, apart from within ourselves and displaying it, & trying to reach positions of power to embed it
The freedom to say whatever you want doesn't make you free. I am not opposed to free speech, for the record, but I am not delusional about what freedom actually is. The ability to live your life the way you want to, without access to money hanging over your head would be freedom. As long as all of our daily choices in our lives are controlled by how much money we have we will never be free. The Native American Tribes that lived for thousands of years on this continent without government and money were free. They had no central government and no monetary systems. They coexisted just fine for a very long time without those things. They were free.
Honestly, you guys would be much more likable and persuasive if you weren't constantly talking about how brilliant and intelligent all your friends are. I don't doubt that they are, but it's really annoying at this point.
Free speech is absolutely essential. As a survivor of communism, it makes me sick to my bones that the political mainstream in the EU and US disagrees with that.
That's because they've been captured by communism.
@@vecernicek2 could you like this comment. So I can find your profile again easily and watch some of your play lists more. Please.
Thank you. 👍
@@MatthewHanson1 No problem :)
Always look forward to a conversation between these two. I’m sure this will be FIRE. Pun fully intended.
“It's the suppression of the word that gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness.”
-Lenny Bruce
The intention of the First Amendment was not to protect speech you agree with. There would hardly be a need for a free speech provision in the Constitution if this were the case. The First Amendment was authored to protect the speech you vehemently disagree with.
I think many people who oppose free speech do not believe their free speech will ever be compromised.
But the inevitable outcome is that unpleasant powerful people will gain more power without dissent, then silence the peasants that silenced the dissenters.
If history repeats itself, the most fervent bullies who enthrone a despot would be among the first to go. The powerful do not want rabble-rousers in THEIR new society.
Similar to how I felt about the mandates during COVID.
Sure, you may want the V this time around… but what about in 5 years, when the govt tries to pull this stunt all over again?
Do you really want to outsource your physical health & wellbeing to our incompetent and/or corrupt govt?
When has govt EVER cared about our health, truly? How many times have they been caught lying?
Even if you are happy to have recieved the V, you should still fiercely oppose mandates. Do not outsource your health to ANYONE. It is your most precious gift and you must protect it at all costs.
Esp when known criminals stand to make billions of dollars from mass compliance…
Is moderation acceptable within free speech?
And in a world based on economics, who is going to provide (pay) for the platform to express yourself?
This is what has always struck me, about the giant, glaring self-contradiction in modern, "woke"/"progressive" left's approach to free speech.
Probably the single MOST central, foundational idea in "progressive" ideology, is their belief (correct or not) that they're "fighting oppression", and that all their designated-victim "minority" demographics, gays and lesbians, women, trans, black and other racial minorities, etc, are all horribly "oppressed", by society at large, but especially by "the system"- gov't, non-governmental Institutions, big corporations, etc.
But I grew up, as a black kid, under the tail end of the apartheid regime, in South Africa; I don't like throwing around the word "oppression", but I'm pretty sure even they would probably concede, that South Africa in the 80s and early 90's was more "oppression", than anyone in a Western nation, in 2024, is facing.
And what that experience taught me, is that if you allow exceptions to protection of free speech (not "exceptions" like the exceptionz for threats, or certain types of pcrn. But "exceptions" like "you have free speech... EXCEPT if you're in X-group, or believe in X-idea...), then any genuinely "oppressed" group will ALWAYS be the first to be silenced.
And by allowing such exceptions to free speech (ANY exception that isn't universally and consistently applied), they're automatically trusting the system that THEY CLAIM to be "oppressive", to decide which groups/ideas get silenced, and which don't.
They view "oppression" as some weird kind of fixed, unchanging, immutable trait, that certain groups inherently have (those groups listed above- gays and lesbians, women, etc), while other groups inherently CAN'T EVER be "oppressed" (men, heterosexuals, white people, Christians, conservatives, etc).
But REAL "oppression" doesn't work that way- Real "oppression" is a moving target, which shifts over time, and can potentially apply to ANY group... Ironically, especially if you decree that group as being "inherently privileged/ NOT oppressed", therefore we never have to worry about the rights/"oppression" of THAT group... that's basically a fast-track to ensuring that group DOES get discriminated against/"oppressed".
I know it's a cliche, but 30's Germany was a prime example, where Jews were seen as inherently "privileged", and even as the "oppressor" class, who "oppressing" the German people... which was how their treatment was justified, and seen as acceptable, by everyday Germans.
I feel like this USED to be a given, but it's fallen by the wayside, with the moden left's bizarre distortions of words like "equality" and "equal rights".... But the reason why GENUINE equality, consistently applied accross ALL groups, without any disclaimers or exceptions, is vital, is that you will inevitably create real oppression/discrimination, ANY time you make exceptions from basic rights, for ANY one group/ideology.
I recently read The Coddling of the American Mind for the first time and was so thoroughly impressed I'm about to start a second reading with proper note taking. The Canceling is on my reading list soon as well. As someone presently in academia, I find it hard to envision how the institution can rebound after everything that has gone on for well over a decade now. Not that it necessarily, absolutely can't be done, but I personally can't see how. I presently want no part of it but need to stay the course until I have my professional credential. The work Greg and others are doing trying to right the ship are so necessary, and beyond appreciated. Thanks for this conversation as always, Peter - great guest, high quality, insightful conversation. Cheers!
Thanks so much for watching!
Since we are going to name drop my friend billy wilson who had an article published in the elementary school paper when we were 8 years old once wrote, “America, hell yeah.”
Great terrific
So full of excellent commentary
I’m forever grateful to your work and the guests you have on
Please stay strong and never give up
From a 66 year old who never went to uni
But feel I’m now being educated
From Adelaide Australia
Are we awake now🕊
12:39
Go back to the late 1980s and early 1990s, during the initial big push for politically correct ideology. If you asked a PC advocate what their behavioral expectations were of other human beings vis-à-vis free speech, they would likely tell you that remaining silent about controversial issues or provocative personal opinions is merely a form of congenial politeness. This flawed philosophy was never successfully extinguished 25 years ago, so it was permitted to morph into today's, more dangerously authoritarian form of censorship and persecution.
Hear, Hear 🎉 Greg is a true patriot 😊 I think he got the feels from your compliment 😊
This is such an important topic, thank you!
You’re very welcome!
The smartest and most successful people I have interacted with tend to be exceptionally humble, gracious, and curious
nonono. They all join Mensa 🤣
True
@@sdrc92126 lol
Really appreciate hearing from Greg, 👏 thank you for this discussion
🔥🔥🔥 Greg with Peter is superb, looking forward to hearing this
I live in Western Australia and I have a copy ❤😂
I've bought the book (in Dutch) just a month ago. I had read it from the library a few years ago but I wanted to own it because it is an important book, also here in the Netherlands.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate these honest conversations! Thank. you.
Great conversation - thanks to both of you.
I'm not even ten seconds in to this one, and I'm already intrigued. The phrase 'coddling cognitive distortions' is a fantastic way to explain so much of the craziness we have all seen spiralling out of control these past 10 years or so.
Thank you!
This made me look up Killer Mike's speech, it was powerful. Makes sense Run the Jewels are FIRE.
Comments are being ghosted by YT.
Both of mine are gone. Peter should see
@@sdrc92126
Most are unaware of how sinister Google and TH-cam are.
@@sdrc92126
Google and YT are sinister.
Do you get little warnings from YT? They threaten suspension, banning, deplatforming We probably all have accounts/channels here so I don't want to lose it, but I don't want to be bullied either.
@@hmanuel7138 I've gotten warnings from YT and had comments deleted.
Comments are being shadowbanned.
With good reason. Look at what is being said
@@sdrc92126
Do you approve of your own comment being censored?
@@greenwayavenger They all were. You know how to see though?
@@sdrc92126
Please share your knowledge.
@@greenwayavengerWhen you have clicked on the comments section change 'most populair' into 'newest'.
I think that is what he means.
The FIRE team does impeccable work, however, I feel there is a distinction being missed with respect to how they rate overtly private religious institutions and publicly funded universities by the same standard. I don’t think we would view it as a violation of free speech if a church bared a speaker from coming to a service and expressing views antithetical to their values in the place they view as their ‘religious home’. I think many students at private religious universities have a similar sense about their institution. That said, I do think it an issue if people from the same religious university are putting those same limits on free speech outside of their institution, and that is the distinction I’d like to see measured.
22:20 this whole part of the conversation…I was rolling my eyes by this point. WE GET IT lmao There’s only so many times you need to say “I am a really humble person, but wow look at how many famous incredible intelligent top of society people I now move amongst!”
It’s fine to have all these friends. Harping on and on about the fact that you want to talk about them but don’t want to sound boastful because in fact you are humble is incredibly tedious and by the end achieves the opposite if your intention is to come off as humble.
Love ya Peter, but this segment got skin crawly. It’s irrelevant to me who you are friends with.
It's one thing to be of a temperament that is extra-sensitive ( Empath is a popular term, at least in a variety of YT psychology-related videos ), it's another thing to insist on being "fragile", which often has seemed quite narcissistic. ( A multitude of YT videos speaking against that trait or full-blown NPD. ) My appreciation to Greg for his efforts to instill greater resilience and a "thicker skin" into our society and culture.
There is no “hate speech” exception to the First Amendment. So, many Americans wonder: Is hate speech legal?
Contrary to a common misconception, most expression one might identify as “hate speech” is protected by the First Amendment and cannot lawfully be censored, punished, or unduly burdened by the government - including public colleges and universities.
This is the most censored TH-cam channel.
21:12 it's terrifying being the smartest person in the room, because now you're the one who should be held accountable because you should know better. It fills me with peace knowing people like y'all and Douglas (DOUGIE!!) exist.
I haven't read full books by Fish, but I have used his essay "Conspiracy Theories 101" for discussion in my composition classes. It yielded some pretty good discussion sometimes.
Great video! Your friends with Ben Browder. Holy 💩 that’s awesome.
Nice.
Peter, do you support Douglas Murray?
Link for documentary?
*Makes negative comment about Plato… Peter’s blood pressure rises 😂
Don’t worry, I felt it too 😂
Have you done an episode on the paradox of tolerance? I feel like most people on the left see this as an excuse for not allowing speech they disagree with.
I'm trying to go to FIRE's website right now and it's down.... Because of the rankings they just released?
the thing is how to encourage/get people to put more stock on being correct than winning (whatever, something important to them) your often example of at 30k feet in the sky in an airplane wokism and virtual signaling not only have no value/win but very certain to guarantee a large hole in the ground for everyone on board. the thing is most situation is not a plane in the sky spiraling out of control, slowly where no one seem to notice and signalling dominates both sides, woke left and woke right, who to send to the pilot's chair. the captain is right there extolling the virtues and importance of free speech too, or as the case may be isn't. correct speech or proper speech is smallest subset of all speeches because everyone may be free to speak but not everyone can be correct (when they disagree) at the same time about the same things.
Read Coddling twice. If you haven't read it, put it on your to do list immediately.
How stupid would that be if you would only be “allowed” to talk about friends who are not “famous”.
lol the bug is the feature but donot dare lol at it
Ben Browder is based? Nice!
Newsflash: you are "name dropping" people most of us have never heard of so we don't view it that way.😂
Plato's philosopher kings practiced the freedom of Socratic method tho ? Mix of logic and EQ in communication.
🙏❤❤🌊🏝🦋❤❤🙏
The Peter Principal.
Greg is soooo cute:)
Communists gonna communist.
Just testing YT moderation here: men cannot be women, women cannot be men
It's still here 8 hours later so they must be asleep.
I got suspended from FB for 48 hours for suggesting some women might regret their decision to have an ab*rtion while prefacing my comment with "women have the right to choose." And YT is better ime.
Don't you think the transition to an AGE OF VICTIMHOOD - Needs to be addressed head on ?
Victimhood pays. Are we going to ignore the fact that everyone needs resources and victims get resources.
There's nothing wrong with victims gaining acces to resources. Victims deserve justice and recompense if they live in a society that values justice and has some sense of compassion and fairness. But when predators can hijack any legit victimhood movement using soc med and digital savvy - We have a problem that's not going away.
Victimhood pays and the wolves in sheeps clothing know this damn well.
Idk how to address this phenomenon head on, or even at an angle...
- Any Bright Ideas here ?
It needs to become more stigmatised to take on victimhood when it's not justified. Similar to the concept of cheating.
Alongside that, we need to return to an understanding of objective not subjective truth.
I don't know how to achieve this, apart from within ourselves and displaying it, & trying to reach positions of power to embed it
18:50
👋 hi
The freedom to say whatever you want doesn't make you free. I am not opposed to free speech, for the record, but I am not delusional about what freedom actually is. The ability to live your life the way you want to, without access to money hanging over your head would be freedom. As long as all of our daily choices in our lives are controlled by how much money we have we will never be free. The Native American Tribes that lived for thousands of years on this continent without government and money were free. They had no central government and no monetary systems. They coexisted just fine for a very long time without those things. They were free.
Blablabla.... I am tired of talking the same fuckin talking points... Enough!!! Gloves off Peter!! Time to play dirty.
Just two guys patting themselves on the back for having it all figured out.
Honestly, you guys would be much more likable and persuasive if you weren't constantly talking about how brilliant and intelligent all your friends are. I don't doubt that they are, but it's really annoying at this point.