How Catwoman Almost DESTROYS the DCAU Timeline | The Vanishing Point
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Catwoman's year of origin may just be one of the hardest parts of "Batman: the Animated Series" to pin down. Will our curiosity kill the timeline?
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Stay tuned for exciting weekly DCAU video content, here at the Watchtower Database.
The Watchtower Database is an upcoming fansite collecting all known information on the DC Animated Universe, or DCAU, the 14-year-spanning animated saga produced by Warner Bros. and DC Comics under the creative team of Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Dwayne McDuffie, and others. WDb's expansive catalog of characters, episodes, imagery, and more will be highlighted by the quarter-turn, full-body images for every single character to have appeared on the shows, as well as many other treats for DCAU fans.
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Matty
You have way too much faith in the Gotham city legal system
Where's Jason Todd when you need him? Non-canon, that's where.
This is the city that won't put joker on death row so yeah gothams legal system is worse than California's
Is it even a legal system at this point? It's mostly just a bunch of police that are short-handed and corrupted. Arkham and Blackgate are both worthless at keeping prisoners.
@Will N where is
Iron Heights? Seems like a lengthy legal process
Sam Jackson joker is insane he wouldn’t get death in real life
So we need to storm WB instead of area 51?
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 We could find the Snyder Cut...and where Lego Batman 4 is. That's what we all really care about. A trilogy isn't good enough.
Edit: the game series, not the movie.
No... FAN BASE ASSEMBLE!!!
What if Catwoman just never gets caught?
I was thinking that also. Plus, maybe Bruce Wayne/Batman covered for her several times, so no one knew Selena had even gone out as Catwoman.
Exactly right. Or she near immediately escaped any capture and conducted business under an alias. This video creates a problem that does not exist in order to obsess over it.
In a later episode, she gets arrested as Catwoman and put in a police car but she then forces the police officers out of the car and drives off. It's public information that Catwoman is Selina Kyle, so presumably the police would have then arrested her at home.
@@wfjhDUI
If she's on the run from the law, why would she return to her home?
I mean ye. It is Gotham after all
"I mean whats the deal with Batman, is he a Bat, is he a Man, is he both?" -Jerry Seinfeld, probably
Bloopers are great! But save the majority of em for the end so we don't interrupt the flow. Of course, it wouldn't be you if we didn't get atleast a little bit of goofing in the main bulk! c:
I feel this should have been saved to the end. I personally found it rather annoying and not at all funny how much it dragged out.
Im the finale of Seinfeld they all go to prison. Prison changes people..
I always found It rather Interesting how Selina was meant to Resemble Michelle Pfeiffer, So She was made to have Blonde Hair. But Her Catwoman Costume was a different Design. Come the New Batman Adventures and Selina now has Black Hair to differentiate Her from Pfeiffer.
However, Her new Catwoman Costume closely Resembles Pfeiffer's Costume from Batman Returns. Kind of a big Switch-a-roo.
I do prefer Her with the Blonde Hair for the Animated Series but for Everything else, The Black Hair seems to suit Her.
It makes sense that they changed Catwoman's hair to resemble Michelle Pfeiffer if it was to mirror the Batman Returns movie. After all, the look of the Penguin was very reminiscent of Danny DeVito's portrayal of him. They even had him eating raw fish as he did in the movie. It wasn't until the New Adventures that the Penguin would adopt the look more in line with the comics. It is strange that Catwoman's costume wasn't more like the Batman Returns style but I suppose the dominatrix look was probably too much for this cartoon.
I also preferred the blonde look, but I was never on board with the more drastic character changes of New Adventures. I was more confused why she didn't have any colour at all in this version.
@@Alexanderiii Actually, I'm pretty sure they've stated the reason why they didn't give her the batman returns design is because they didn't want to have to draw all of the lines on it.
i'm confused as to why you consider that a continuity error. the solution is simple they never caught her. she has a hide out, not a public address and she steals what ever she needs to survive or deals with the underworld for it. just because her identity is known doesn't mean the next time she breaks the law she'll get the "book thrown at her" because she needs to be caught first.
Just because.
"THIS IS ANOTHER HAIR EPISODE"
Well, we have a new intro quote for hair episodes.
This channel is legitimately the only channel I have notifications on for
Same
Her hair can be explained 2 ways. 1: Some women change their hair pretty often, maybe it was shorter or dyed a different color a year prior to the fundraiser. 2: Black could be her natural hair color, and the blonde is a dyed choice. Maybe a year before the fundraiser she still had her natural hair, then chose to bleach/dye it, then gave that up during the Gotham Adventures comic, returning to her natural black hair. Solved.
Wigs and weave are also a thing.
In the batman she has a whole collection of wigs so....
One thing that strikes me about this is Selena's change. She goes from Pfeifferesque long-haired blonde in a grey costume to strangely pale short-haired brunette in a black costume between the two series. Could Selena have changed her appearance as a part of changing her identity to avoid arrest?
Maybe that Judge was caught in some corruption and was fired or something and her throwing the book wasn't relevant anymore
There are other ways to get around her having "the book thrown at her".... maybe she is hiding from the cops in some fashion, and is really good at dodging them.
For granted making situations out of nothing can be asking for trouble when making a timeline, but if it makes since, and doesn't create to many assumptions (or is to ridiculous), it might be a passable answer until you find a better one.
Future hair episodes:
Alfred's hair eventually turning white.
Bruce losing his hair so late in life (like, why does he not lose it until he's so fucking old?)
Commissioner's hair being white in the pilot, yet red in Robin's Reckoning.
Robin's middle-part on the cover of "Batman Adventures #5".
Bruce's Mr Fantastic hair in Out of the Past
Green Lantern's bald head (why'd he shave it?)
I mean, these would all be what we call quality content.
As for the judge "throwing the book at her" it could be as simple as any number of life reasons that particular judge is no longer a judge in Gotham City.
As someone who grew up and loved all these DCAU shows and since introduced them to my kids who also love them let me just say thank you for the time and effort not to mention your creatively you put into your content truly an amazing job👍👏👏👏
Now we got to ask the real question...
What about Superman’s long hair in Batman Adventures 25. Let’s make this a Vanishing Point Hair Trilogy!
Mayhaps he lost a bet against Jimmy Olsen, and was forced to wear a mullet wig.
12:24 dam I’m upset we didn’t get to see this 😭 that is a really cool design for catwoman because I prefer long black hair for catwoman
I kinda figured that at the end of Cat Scratch Fever, the law was forgiving since she saved the day and stuff. But believe me, the Catwoman stuff bugs me. Hell, in Batman Adventures #2 (as I discuss on my DCArevU tumblr blog, plug-plug), shouldn't Batman know where she lives and stuff? Maybe we can at least recon the beginning of The Cat and the Claw, and say that Batman Adventures #2 occurs first? Or maybe Batman Adventures #2 occurs within the Cat and the Claw? Like, after she gets away at the end of the comic, then Bruce meets Selina and blahblahblah? Ugh. I don't know, man.
By the way, I choked on my coffee when you said, "Batman the Animated Series isn't canon".
One thing I will say is that when it comes to retcons (as a personal thing), I don't necessarily like to approach them with a "noncanon" mindset. At least, not when I'm going through the series. I treat them as canon until I get to the episode/comic that retcons them. Is it a cheap way to do things? Oh, hell yes, but it causes a lot less headache lmao. But, I guess if we all did things like that, a lot of the fun would be sucked out of the Watchtower Database. I can't believe some of the timeline stuff you guys pull out of your ass that actually works really well sometimes (not saying that you don't put hard work into pulling it out of your ass. It's like constipation, I swear).
This video consists of two basic issues regarding the DCAU continuity: 1) How does Catwoman get away with continung to be Catwoman after a judge threatens her? 2) How can the Selina of BTAS and the Selina of the later series even be the same person? As far as continuity, these are both non-issues. That’s not to say it’s realistic. But in terms of the canon/continuity of this fantasy DCAU universe, there’s nothing here that affects or cancels out any part of its linear continuity. How does Catwoman get away with continuing to be Catwoman? Same answer as, how does the Joker or Penguin or any of the other freaks of Gotham continue to get away with being who they are after multiple arrests and incarcerations? For that matter, how does Batman get away with being Batman? (He couldn’t in the real world.). The answer is simple: It’s Gotham City. A city with a justice department as corrupt and incompetent as the worst third world countries. It’s no more complicated than that. As far as Selina’s design change from a beautiful, realistic looking woman into a badly stylized, sharp angled proto-Ruby Rose... yes, the design change is extremely jarring, but that has little affect on the continuity. Certainly not her hair-women change hairstyles all the time.
But yes, I would have preferred a look more similar to the series bible, because I love long dark hair. But beautiful blonde Selina still looks a lot better than the later angular stick figure Selina, regardless of her hair. (And she looks physically shorter--that's a far bigger continuity issue than her hair.)
My best guess: Gotham has been shown, time and again, to have dark secrets for even the best of people. Selina's judge got targeted by one of the Big Bads or maybe just a minor extortionist and decided to resign over just such a past indiscretion. It caused enough of an undertow that any judgments or directives from her were avoided or ignored by other judges as Selina once again kept on being Catwoman. This meant she was subject to Gotham's regular - often wholly inexplicable - system of justice and skated the edges once more.
Actually, I do have an idea about the whys of Gotham, even in continuities like Arkham Series or Dark Knight Films where they supposedly tighten things up. Long story short, Gotham's perps have a review process that, for them, is from West Heaven. At almost every level of the system you can name, an official or bureaucrat has the ability through some process that's listed under thoroughness to shut the whole process down for any individual perp. They object, and that is all. This does not help the Bigs, but it doesn't need to - they escape or find some way to skate anyway. No, this system provides and maintains the insane amount of willing henches. Either these guys themselves or their bosses have an endless supply of people to bribe or threaten to get them out and back in scheme-fodder mode. These 'set-asides' are not a modern invention, either. Solomon Wayne himself inserted them, believing this would quickly identify any corrupt official. But the super-harsh Bat-ancestor failed to realize it instead gives cover for these when anyone could be the approached for bribery or coercion weak link. The DA is coming down hard? Go through the judge, the paperwork processors, the present but non-arresting cops...it's a smorgasboard, and no one can reform it because no one can agree who to limit this set-aside to.
Also, maybe a video on why there is no death penalty or hanging punishment in Gotham and DCAU as a whole. With all the mass murders and stuff the villians do they can get hanged irl
Good idea
Because TV Y7
I don't think there's anywhere in the US that still allows literal hanging. Edited: Apparently, hanging may still be allowed in Delaware, New Hampshire, and Washington
We Remotely Low the DCAU has never been shy about killing characters
Today, New York has no death penalty.
I like your blooper video's. It shows how much work you put into them.
Since Selina's hair was different a year before Catwalk (December 93), doesn't that mean that Cat & Claw has to take place in December 92 - January 93
I would have liked to see batman characters in league of unlimited justice, bane, catwoman, penguin, two faces ....... maybe the writers would have given us a chapter worth remembering
For sure! They weren’t allowed to use them at the time, though. “Bat-embargo” and all that.
Are you implying that JLU isn't worth remembering?
"Because it's Thurs..."
"MEOW!"
I felt threatened by Mattie telling me to leave a comment about Catwoman’s hair...so here’s what I have to say
I think the long blonde hair is a good way to tie her civilian life to the Catwoman mantle, cuz initially at least, she’s out doing Catwoman stuff to solve problems that Selina Kyle can’t. But eventually there’s more focus on her being Catwoman because she feels it’s more like her true self, hence why she stops dying her hair and cuts it short, devoting herself fully to the Catwoman persona.
At least that’s how I interpret it, but I’ve been watching a ton of BTAS recently so my thoughts could be muddled
I actually want to see the long black hair fully illustrated out, but with what we have I actually really like the short blond hair that we saw in that one issue.
I felt it wasn't in good taste to leave this comment on the video on such a somber subject but I saw your hint of the town your from and I'm from very close to their! Hello from a fellow north west Floridian!
Wow that's really cool!
In the animated series the long blonde hair looks better the way they animate her in BTAS, but I like how her short black hair looks in the mainstream DC comics.
Please make a connection video on GTAS,JL:G&M please
Breaking the law does not matter in the real world so why should it matter in a cartoon or comic book.
When you gonna make a video of "who had s3x with who in the dcau" think about that men
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 OMG e.e
Bruce with every woman. End video
I like long blonde hair first then short black but long blonde wins big time for me
I like her short black hair, it suits her true nature more imo. While BTAS is what introduced me to her, my favourite version is from the Arkham games. Either that or that DC showcase short 🥵
I'm torn between the two actually. On one hand I like how she was blond in BTAS because of how it's a clear reference to her Batman Returns version along with her suit evoking the same look but on the other hand her black hair in TNBA looks also striking on her. It'd be cool if we'd see her have hair that mixes both like have it be black with yellow highlights or vice versa.
It was from this moment 16:45 that Matie became outta control i.e truly nuts.🤣😂 All the effort that he has put into this, hair-matter, really proves the point being "..it's what under the hair that counts.."😉 Finally after all of this work pressure that he's been through, he truly DESERVES a head massage as well as a raise. 😎😁😆👍
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 Wow Matie... It's really You replied my comment.😃 Really appreciate your hard work man... all three of yours that is.☺ From a guy who's childhood got shaped by DCAU. Really hope that your channel as well as all three of your every effort to re-establish the DCAU would one day ultimately get the attention & recognition that it deserves.😁👍
P.S. Dear Bruce Timm, please hire them as your DCAU successor already.😊
Maybe the judge was literally threatening to throw a book at Catwoman.
Unlikely.
Great video! Both my favorite hair styles for her are the black hair versions.
Sometimes it seems like he unites the timelines the creator didn't actually planned but just luckily bonded together.
This is correct. There is no intended timeline for the DCAU, but it sure is fun to map one!
Considering it's the Joker's audience and they're cardboard cutouts, Joker could've just made a pre-Two Face Harvey.
that original Catwoman design actually looked great.
I prefer the character design and body type for Catwoman from B:TAS, but I prefer the short black hair from The New Batman/Superman Adventures. Combine the two and you have a perfect animated Catwoman.
BTAS is almost 30 years old and ended 23 year ago. That's wild. I've only ever seen it re-aired. I was born in January 1997, so it ended that year and I never got a glimpse of it.
I assume. Perhaps I saw it prior to turning 1.
Is it possible that Selina DID get the book thrown at her at some point, but managed to escape prison? It's been a while since I've seen the series, so I could be entirely incorrect about that.
And I like all versions of her hair, but I think I like the long blonde best because I prefer BTAS Catwoman to Batman New Adventures Catwoman.
I have seen it snow in NYC area in April, & massively snow on the 1st day of spring on long island.
Selina's hair looks best at pixie cut.
Can someone explain to me by the last time we saw Selina Kyle, was she running from the law or not?
You put more work into every video than I do into my finals
Change that!
8:08
You know the bat-car, the batcave, and possibly the batarang!
But have you ever seen the Bat-bat?
13:17 "this map that we see in Avatar" Which Avatar, the James Cameron movie or the Nickelodeon TV Show?
She looks soooooo much better with black hair...
Right? It's obvious that the blonde wasn't natural. I can picture it being dead from the bleaching. It kinda looks it.
She just looks off. If they really want to change her hair they should make it a dark color. But that’s just what I think
We Remotely Low Selena was made blonde because BTAS designs were based on the Tim Burton films (it even uses the same main theme). Michelle Pfeiffer’s Selena Kyle/Catwoman from “Batman Returns” (released in 1992) was blonde, so they made her animated incarnation blonde.
@@Mechasonicrocks Honestly, I liked Selena better with long blonde hair. It made her stand out a bit more since so many characters in BTAS were black-haired.
@@Elly3981 Same.
Gotta go with blonde Selina! EVERYTHING about her was gorgeous! Her toned yet gorgeous muscles, her dazzling green eyes, her legs that went on for days. She was just a goddess!
Have you guys posted an official episode by episode timeline anywhere, out of curiosity?
1:31 : Well, actually, I'm not, but for a number of reasons.
I gave up reading comics years ago (and was among the last of the friends I had starting in the late 80s to give them up, for most others the 'Mutant Massacre' put them off comics...... so I guess it took me this long to 'grow the frak up', huh? ^_^).
Second, the story of Phantasm has pretty much been perfectly told between "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm" and her final appearance in an episode of Justice League Unlimited.
I'll still keep watching people like you, though, since I still have a curiosity about what's going on in comics, even if I don't feel like collecting them any longer ^_^
Now this explains why Catwoman had dark hair in The New Batman Adventures
IM HERE FOR THE HAIR
Matt, I have a big question. Could it be, that DCAU is Flashpoint? Where is Barry Allen? Why Thawne have appeared in comics? Wally hasn`t a big sister(Iris)? Please, explain Flash situation.
Flashpoint comic didn't exist
Matty I'm pretty sure Veronica's comment about selina's hair was just to show how much of a flake veronica is because selina never changed her hair. Veronica is just pretending to remember selina wich you can kinda tell by selina's reaction. At least that's the way I always understood that scene.
People hated the cat last episode? It was pretty funny to me lol
Little known fact: after Selina stopped dying her hair, Batman used some of her spare yellow dye on one of his Batsuits.
Best catwoman hair is from brave and the bold 🔥🔥
Even I've seen the Christmas episode. But I've watched a bunch of episodes. It was a few years ago and in the regular order, and we can't have that. Timeline only.
I like all of catwoman's hair looks
Short Black Hair, But that's bc i'm gay af
Jenny holiday you like short haired women
I like many women, particularly my girlfriend. She's my favorite
@@jennyholiday88 so do you yoy like hallle berys catwoman beuce thats thso got a crapton of lesbian sex appeal with halles haircut jesus a lesbian chick magnet
wut
@@jennyholiday88 hey Jenny how long have you and your girfreind been together forb
I completely tuned out you saying that the BTAS part of the timeline ends in January 1997 and then wrote that comment and mentioned my birth month.
So BTAS ended in January? Or just in-universe? Either way it ended with my birth. It's canon now.
That's why the skies are red. In something.
I love all of Catwoman's hairstyles
The wedding that was built up and where Catwoman left Bruce at the Alter? Or was that a different wedding?
Also, 20 comic books. Individual issues? How much money do you have? Comic books aren't cheap.
I'm gonna have to find DCAU comic books to make me watching it complete, aren't I?
Does anyone have an list of episodes and comics in order, or do I need to study every video on this channel? Or just ignore the comics.
I have watchlists.
We’re constantly working on a chronological timeline of everything. Closest we have so far is the Vanishing Point finale.
Why do they say "I'll throw the book at you"? I'd be like, "Are you threatening me, Your Honour?"
The cat in the beginning 100% made up for it. The bloopers are fine there was just too many in a row usually they're fine :)
There was no repercussions, granted, BUT the judge said she herself would throw the book at her. Your argument assumes there is only one judge in Gotham. She could have appeared in front of another judge. Who could have easily been male and subject to her charms or sympathetic to why she broke the law afterwards... More than one judge in Gotham blows away your argument, you are way overthinking this....
Got to go with long blonde, watching Batman Returns in theater was an experience I'll never forget.
Because is every other thursday!
Perhaps she does get in prisoned before TNBA but breaks out of prison and becomes an outlaw and thus she dawns her black cat suit
Besides her suits what is different about Selena Kyle and other Catwomen!? This channel has been great for all I wanted to know about the DCAU. Keep it up!
Selena’s the only Catwoman in the DCAU...not sure what you’re asking here. But thanks!
I probably would pick the long black hair if I could find more images of it but since I can't I'll pick long blond hair, don't really like the short blond hair cut and while on the model sheet the short black hair looks fine in the show I remember the forehead being to big for me.
1:31
WHAT !! I did NOT know that ! Watch out Selina; Andrea is in town ! That’ll be quite the showdown, Bruce’s loves (his first and his last) facing off. Is Andrea gonna be his first love like the movie ??
It's a couple years old now. Go give it a read, I really liked it!
It was funny because when they revived the Arkham Knight I was thinking about how maybe she could be like a polar opposite of the Phantasm.... And then they announced the Phantasm...
Phantasm
PHANTAAASMMMM
YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS
Aha! That's what I get for posting before the episode is over.
Tom King has an opportunity with Batman/Catwoman to rectify events of The Wedding. We want the bloody WEDDING!!!! Origin discrepancies are due to Dr Manhattan rewriting the DC Universe
You're assuming she didn't have stints in Gotham's prison. If Gotham's primary correctional system is even half as bad as it is for Gotham Asylum, it's pretty safe to say it wouldn't hold an expert escape artist for very long. She may have just lived on the run.
I Like the long blond hair, but if they designed a better looking long black hair I could go for it.
I actually like the bloopers from the lady video. I was dying laughing
It’s all down to the judge.
What if she retired or if she was dishonoured and disbarred so she could never fulfil her threat...
And any other judge went lenient on Selena....
Long black promo hair > Short Black hair > Short Blonde hair > Long Blonde
Not gonna lie sometimes I feel like these videos are mostly nitpicks like the Batman costume video but most videos are informative and change my outlook on the DCAU
When your favorite DC Villian is finally talked about by your favorite DC TH-camr(s): "Yeet yeet."
Plus how many DCEU villains have life sentences and still break out of prison / avoid the cops? Not sure I take the ramblings of one judge as absolute.
I like the bloopers
Hair is the key to clues
I love ALL the hair. Plus, Barbara's medical records in Sub Zero confirm that Gotham City is in the state of New York.
As does Charlie Collins’ drivers license.
You also forgot Almost Got Im because this breaks this. Catwoman isnt a criminal and Batman doesnt bring her in at all which he would if she was
i dont mind the hair color they all look good on catwoman
Maybe the Judge retire or wa# fired @md and that's why she was able to become Catwoman again.
definitely feel that the black hair would be better for her as a cat burglar. It would help her to blend in.
This is not a question of continuity or timelines; it's a question of courts. First of all, there is probably more than one judge in Gotham. Second, there are sentencing guidelines. Third, you see woman in a Catwoman costume, but that woman is NOT Selina Kyle, unless you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. If a judge tried to sentence Selina for crimes committed by unknown perpetrators, the sentence would be overturned and the judge could end up reprimanded or even disbarred.
Andrea Beaumont and the Phantasm are perfect in a standalone story. She's fine being used here and there in the DCEU, but being a thing in mainline continuity that Tom King can mess around with just isn't something I want.
1. Not every crime is prosecuted.
2. The judge said "up to 25 years in prison" meaning that less time than that was also an option.
3. If she had been charged on subsequent crimes while still on parole, she may have gone up before a different judge who viewed her case differently than the first judge did.
4. This is Gotham! Their "justice system" is a complete joke when dealing with anything to do with costumed villains.