Never mind asking the british tax payer to help the stubborn legacy car makers out, ask the oil giants to bail them out. The people actually making the stuff that is getting burnt seem to be getting off much too lightly. They should be paying a ZE tax to subsidise the car makers.
Oil companies are already shutting down operations in the UK because of insanely high taxation, the 'windfall' taxes they are currently paying makes it pretty much pointless operating in the UK already so where are they getting the money to pay even more tax from.
@@schrodingerscat1863 Everything you have said there is incorrect. The two biggest companies in the UK are Shell and BP... and by some margin, twice the size of the next biggest company. They should be made to pay for the damage their highly profitable products have done to peoples health and the environment. That is the right thing to do, It's as simple as that.
@@stevewest131 Oil industry is shutting down in the UK if you hadn't noticed. Higher taxes will just hasten that. Air quality now is hugely better than it was 30 years ago because technology has allowed cleaner burning of fuels and big efficiency improvements together with moving to gas from coal for electricity and heating has also massively improved the situation. Don't blame the supplier of a fuel when it is the users of the fuel that actually cause the pollution.
@@schrodingerscat1863 Maybe from the grants successive Governments have given them. Since the Paris Agreement in 2015, the UK has given approximately £13.6 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas sector. This includes £9.9 billion in tax reliefs for new exploration and production, and £3.7 billion towards decommissioning costs. Why should we be paying to decommission their plants? they should be using their huge profits to put the land right after they have finished with it not us.
@14:50mins Dave, Stellantis is NOT closing the Ellesmere Port plant, it's Luton that us closing. Ellesmere Port is expanding. 50m investment, taking on electric van production too. It is one of the only (if not the only) Stellantis factory that only makes EVs.
I don’t think it really matter both will, close because then Vauxhall vivaro e I own one, and I get 80 miles out of the 141 and no one wants one absolutely garbage and to get 80 miles you have to have it in eco-mode I freeze to death
Dave, although the headline target figure is 22% the real figure is actually lower, closer to 19% (not far off the current 18.7% market share level achieved this month). This is due to a little advertised feature of the Vehicle Emissions Trading Scheme (VETS) that implements the ZEV mandate. As well as the features you pointed out in the video one other key facility is the *_Conversion_* feature, which allows low-CO2 vehicle registrations (those beyond the government's CO2 vehicle sales targets) can be converted to ZEV carbon credit figures. This means manufactures with hybrids (HEVs and PHEVs) as well as certain diesel models can use these to count towards the 22% ZEV target (surrendering a number of vehicle CO2 credits per ZEV carbon credit). Whilst being able to use ICE/Hybrid registrations towards ZEV targets may seem odd at face value, it's a good incentive as it makes manufactures prioritise BEV production first and low CO2 car production second; the conversion ratio for ICE becoming less effective each year under the VETS scheme. Aston Martin will not be impacted as the VETS has a floor (2,500 vehicles registrations) below which automakers are not subject to the mandate target or penalties.
your very last comments ring very true.I think the western world is about to face unprecedentd social and economic changes. which EV to buy will be the least of our problems
Yes, previous government involvement told everybody to buy diesels as they were better for the environment! MP's are really untrained short term contractors who are generally dropped into jobs they know nothing about.
*UK ZEV Mandate Manufacturer performance Jan - October* 1) Tesla: 100% electric 2) Volvo: 28.4% electric 3) Jeep: 28% electric 4) MG: 27.2% electric 5) BMW: 26.6% electric 6) Cupra: 25% electric 7) Mercedes: 22.6% electric 8) Peugeot: 20.8% electric 9) Lexus: 20.4% electric 10) Porsche: 20% electric 11) Hyundai: 18.8% electric 12) Jaguar: 18.5% electric 13) Vauxhall: 18.2% electric 14) Honda: 17.7% electric 15) Audi: 17.5% electric 16) Mini: 14.9% electric 17) Skoda: 14% electric 18) Fiat: 13.6% electric 19) Kia: 13.2% electric 20) Citroen: 13.1% electric 21) Nissan: 12.3% electric 22) Renault: 12.1% electric 23) VW: 11.8% electric 24) Toyota: 8.3% electric 25) Mazda: 6.7% electric 26) Ford: 6.7% electric
The automakers can trade ZEV carbon credits with other manufacturers with high volumes of BEV sales, borrow sales from next year and convert CO2 credits to ZEV credits with their low carbon emission vehicles (such as hybrids). Any automaker with a high proportion of hybrid sales is likely to able to use these to meet the ZEV target.
That Volvo figure is odd, considering the number of pre-registered EX30s that seem to be on offer. Why would they have preregistered to push things well about 22%. Are they going to ahip a lot of ICE cars in the last few weeks of the year?
@@steveunderwood3683 - they may be planning to shift the ZEV credits within the Geely group or sell the credits to other automakers to generate revenue.
Luton closing not Ellesmere Port. Stellantis is moving all van production in the UK to Ellesmere Port . It is now the UK’s first electric vehicle-only manufacturing plant .
No it isn't, France are going to produce ICE vans, they don't need so much space as they won't be producing so many vans in the UK, hence the jobs losses, as a direct result of govt policy.
@@Festoolification - Stellantis is consolidating a number of factories across Europe. As 75% of LCVs made in the UK are for the export market with the majority exported to the EU, then it's not suprising that Luton would be identified for closure. Stellantis have said such several times over, even last July stating that with the continuing renegotiations of car tariffs between the UK and the EU since Brexit that Luton was not viable. Plus Luton has structural problems in that the plant isn't able to support the production of high roof line vans. In Feb this year Stellantis had a change of heart deciding to give Luton a reprive, planning to upgrade Luton to EV production in order to make smaller LCV EV vans there; the ICEV production was already planned to be shifted to the continent. However, with the poor level of sales of electric vans in the UK this year it appears they appear to no longer wish to fund the upgrade of Luton to EV production but instead swap all EV LCV production to Ellesmere Port. In this respect the OP is correct in their description of planned van production moving to Ellesmere Port. ICEV has little to do with it as Stellantis already planned to move such to it continental facilities.
If you owe your bank £1000 you have a problem. If you owe your bank £1000000000 the bank has a problem. The ZEV mandate is not a problem for the consumer but a problem for the government as the car industry collapses in the UK which’ll make this a one term government due to the economic fallout.
The ZEV mandate was a conservative party law passed during their majority Government. The vote was 381 for and 37 against. Given the tories had a clear majority at this time, this was all their doing. p.s. we don't have a car production industry any more, we have a car assembly industry, our industry collapsed in the 80s when Mrs T decided we should be a service based economy. If all we do is assemble foreign companies products, it makes no difference whose cars we buy in this country.
the solution is to nationalise the charging stations and charge the same rate as charging at home, most people live in either a flat or terrace house and unable to charge at home
please no, Michael. never nationalise EV chargers. BTW you are totally wrong about occupancy. The biggest sector by far are semi and detached houses. And of course many terraced houses and apartments do also have off street parking, others have remote garages and therefore all these can have home chargers.
I hope your right but people living in flats have to pay the same as people on houses . I think it will be discontinued for this reason. My guess is we will all charge outside our homes especially when charging becomes as quick as filling with petrol .
The chart at 17:54 is interesting. To me it shows clearly that premium manufacturers have faired far better than the budget car markers. This might be a pointer to the main route of EV car sales which is company cars - many of which are premium car sales. As EV prices come down and more budget cars are slowly appearing i think things might get better for the lower end of the market but it will always be a tougher market for them.
Of course the simplest thing the government could do would be to remove every penny of tax deduction/ subsidy that they allow the oil companies to claim and reduce those to zero, then watch how much the price of petrol and diesel will go up by to make up the difference so that the dividends paid to oil company shareholders receive. Then watch how the sales of new and used EVs go through the roof………..
No they won’t because it won’t solve the actual issues that EV adoption faces. It simply makes ICE cars more expensive without actual fixing the underlying issue in the country to wholesale EV adoption. Range of cars is fine, i defy to find someone who can do 300 miles plus without stopping. Car price for EV becoming more affordable, that isn’t the issue. Currently fill up at local Tesco where drive past the petrol station on way in, do my shopping then drive out past the petrol station or dive in and fill up. Filling up is literally the time to dive in, fill up, pay and drive off. I don’t have to either make a special stop to fill up or go out of way. Number 1 is lack of home charging and you are not going to fix that. If could home charge then would have bought an EV last year. 95% of my journeys I could get out and back and then recharge overnight. I work from home for logistics company but go out to either warehouses being refreshed or brand new ones. Both have one thing in common, as I am putting in the network connection then the charging points are not in place yet, so no only do I not have home charge I don’t get destination charging either. So that either means stopping off and having to charge at rapid chargers at which point certainly not any cheaper then my current car. Local chargers are Tesco, which are 7kw chargers. So quite a while to top up. Luckily 15 min walk but would be drive to supermarket, walk home leaving car there. Go back and collect before 3 hour park limit up. Take back next day and repeat. Currently shows as 44p vs 7p at home. Alternative is to add 15-20 min on journey time to stop and charge at rapid chargers which is from checking apparently 79p a unit. And before you suggest the channel in path and drape cable then is 1st floor and the car parking whilst off-road is the other side of the road so you have to get across a road with the charge cable or in plain English isn’t going to happen. Why should I have to pay 6 to 12 times the price to charge my car compared to someone who can charge at home. The extra pricing making it no cheaper to run an EV then ICE and have the additional time to actually charge my car. With VED added to EV next year then reduces the gap further when doing the maths. If you are serious about getting EV adoption going then need to positively make it worth while with the carrot, not the stick. Like the issue with British housing and the replacement for gas boilers then much of the current stock isn’t suitable for EV. So of course you could simply have the govt mandate that the current housing stock is cleared and new housing with home charging and suitable design for heat pump with much better insulation put up in place. Currently filling the car up is call in at supermarket to do food shopping, on way out then instead of driving past filling station then dive in and fill up, pay and be on way again. Nobody is really being serious about fixing the issue so that EVERYONE can get access to domestic rate charging.
@@michaelmcnally2331your comment is quite comprehensive and balanced. You correctly point out that EVs are great for those that can charge at home. You also need to be able to afford the inflated purchase price as well, but that’s another story. Roughly a third of all houses in the uk will not support home charging. So unless we intend to relegate these people to non-car ownership, this needs resolving and fast. Also, and I have a vested interest here, there are many motoring applications/use cases that currently won’t work with EVs such as long distance/high load applications. Vans are a perfect example of this. For instance there is not a single electric 3.5T van that could be used as a recovery truck. There are currently tens of thousands of these plying their trade. In the future, all car deliveries will have to be using 7.5T diesel lorries. What’s green about that? There are cost implications too. When National deliveries have to be made by lorries instead of vans, it will be inflationary. So long as we all realise this. And all the while China, India etc carry on regardless having a good giggle at our expense
Just got a new bev. All the c segment cars were £25-£26k after discounts. Which really is where they need to be anyway (not £40k). The payments on any of them on pcp matched the lease deal i was on for an Corsa-e, which matched the payments i was making on a diesel Insignia 4 years ago. The real problem with end of year fire sales is that anyone sensible won't pay the higher prices charged the rest of the time.
Don't expect the PCP deals to remain this cheap, providers are being left with a lot of cars they can't sell on right now so are taking a loss to shift them in the second hand market. At some point this is going to get passed onto new PCP contracts.
And who is going to buy an EV if they live in a flat or a terraced house where a lead to charge the vehicle at home has to go out of a window or across a pavement, which is illegal in the UK. It'll never be possible for the nation to go 100% EV. Also, the cost of charging at home WILL go up and as now, to charge in a service station etc is far more expensive than filling up a petrol or diesel car
80% of car drivers have off road parking. Of the 20% left some will be able to charge at work. I know a few people in flats who use friends / family chargers. In a few years people will charge at the shops.
Dave, you may want to check your 'facts' - I nearly fell off my chair when you suggested BMW was an older company than Mercedes-Benz... not least because Karl Benz registered his company in 1885 whereas BMW didn't come into existence until 1916. Karl Benz of course was the inventor of the car in the modern sense of the word.
If every driver gets an electric car it will be a lucky dip if you get any electricity to charge it with.Thats unless you buy a diesel generator to charge it with.
That has to be a concern. I was thinking, EVs currently account for 5% of vehicles. So by my maths, there are 20 times more to come. That’s 20 times the current amount of electricity. 20 times the current number of people frequenting public chargers. Has anybody a plan for this?
Good summary Dave. Though I would suggest the previous govt had a “target” but not ”plan”. Or at least not a plan with any more thought and detail that a 6th former would use for a A-Level project.
Liebour have very few real plans on anything. The new ICE sales ban being one of the rare exceptions. Which I support btw for public health air pollution reasons (the stuff other rhan C02).
Toyota underinvested and undersold on EVs, being convinced that Hydrogen-Electric Vehicles are the future. So until that was ready, Toyota were lobbying hard to keep ICE and Hybrid vehicles as the norm. Unfortunately for them, Hydrogen is not receiving much adoption (there are currently issues producing, storing and transporting it safely because it is ridiculously volatile). So Toyota have shot themselves in the foot as the EVs they do sell lack in the efficiency departments. The best EVs are getting 3.5-4 Miles per kWh. Toyota are languishing at 2.7 Miles per kWh with smaller battery packs and have some serious catching up to do to make their EVs appealing enough when the likes of Tesla, VW and even Stellantis all have appealing options at different price points.
BMW sells to the heavily subsidised company car market. Many large companies give their employees no option other than EV for company cars. Lease deals on these cars has massively increased as lease companies are pricing in zero value at the end of a 5 year lease. What are the sales figures for BYD and Geely in the uk. 40% of very little is next to nothing.
@ yes they are lease prices have gone up massively a 60 month EV is practically worthless and the lease rates are showing this. On many EVs the lease prices have doubled once the market adjusted for the manufacturer discounts and lack of secondhand demand has created fields of unsold EVs. The auctions are full of EVs that can’t make CAP clean and remain unsold. Main dealers have warrantied EVs on their forecourts advertised below CAP clean that don’t sell. Take something simple like the ID Buzz earlier this year leased price was £313 a month it’s now £540. The lease company is increasing the cost because the estimated resale value is half what they thought. 60x540 = £32,400 60x314 = £18,840 The lease company is calculating that depreciation will be £13,500 more than calculated 6 months ago.
@@tobycolin6271 Hmmm. First, the ID Buzz is a £64k vehicle, The depreciated value will be 30% to 40% of the original value in 5 years, even £540 implies the lease is subsidised below market value. Second, a quick google shows £375-£409 per month for 48 months direct from VW available now.
@ I can see where the figures are different you’ve forgotten the 12 month initial payment or £4800. This used to be £3130 earlier in the year. Anyway the point is lease prices for EVs are going up due to depreciation by 35% despite this being the time of year where leases are traditionally lowest and pre registration of EVs is highest (low sales volume in December can make low selling models look good in % terms). ICE on the other hand seems to be much more stable as the ice market depreciation is not affected by massive dealer discount because the manufacturers of frozen ice sales to meet EV targets.
It's easy to manipulate statistics. Many of the so called EV sales are not actual sales but cars being preregistered to try and meet the ZEV mandate. People who think they are being virtuous by thinking that their EV has zero emissions are deluded. The fact that the manufacture of an EV has a massive emission problems to include the mining of rare earth minerals, the transporting them to refining plants and then onto the battery manufacturers. These then have to be transported to the car assembly plants along with the steel and plastic components required.The finished cars then have to be distributed around the world. So in effect an EV owner has just transfered all his toxic emissions to some other poor people , probably mainly in Africa and the Far East and who knows where else.
Nobody makes money selling EVs, its all about who can throw the most public money at them. The CCP was always going to win that contest. About half a TRILLION $ by some estimates. Let them have the entire EV 'market' if they want that albatross. They can pay for all the chargers too if they want. Let the free world sell the cars people actually want and the problem is solved overnight.
@@amosbatto3051 Elon has said he only really makes profit in China. But how much is from actually from selling EVs themselves at market value, and how much is from subsidies, carbon credits, free factories etc etc. Ultimately the cars cost more to manufacture than people are willing to pay for something with such limitations.
Great video as usual but one point I noticed , Mercedes is over 100 years old , it’s the oldest carmaker and invented the car . Carl Benz’s wife made the first ‘ long ‘ distance journey in a ICE car and had range anxiety , history repeats itself lol ! It also used to own BMW and what was then Audi . Modern BMW is only about 70 years old and used to make aircraft engines before it was cars , that’s why its badge is a spinning propeller .
@@michaelmcnally2331 whatever they made they should have been closed down when Germany lost this second war, same for Krupp's, Siemens and all the other businesses over there that used slave labour
Those BYD purchasers will change their mind for their next BYD car as they find they have wasted their money on a PHEV. BYD PHEV's do have an advantage for those that live in remote areas of the world (not Europe).
@3:28 Nonsense. *Best Selling Vehicles in London 2024* 1) Tesla Model 3 2) Nissan Leaf 3) Mini Cooper 4) VW Golf 5) BMW 3 Series 6) Toyota Prius 7) Ford Fiesta 8) Audi A3 9) Hyundai Kona Electric 10) Renault Zoe *Source: London Loves Business*
Why are BMW and Mercedes BEVs selling well ? Because their vehicles have always been expensive so their customers don't suffer *"Sticker Price Shock"* when they go into the showroom.
I would also point out that being higher price cars that the people buying these cars brand new tend to have homes where can home charge. Quite frankly if you can home charge then buying an EV is a no brainer. Govt figures show 80% of EV charging done at home.
Total rubbish. My first car did about 25 to the gallon, and it was a small car, compared to todays cars, which do 40 to 50 miles per gallon and are bigger cars.
Quoting Chinese cars...any of them, as quality, is not in my book! I have used Chinese wire at work and it's pretty rubbish. We soon changed our supplier!
Indeed, and Ford will be making VWs vans next. My partner's dad went over to Germany nearly 30yrs ago to help design the Galaxy/Sharan shared platform.
If you believe all the cladding and old buildings will be knocked down and replaced by 2029 you need to go and have head looked into . You do know how many buildings are waiting to have the cladding replaced ????
@ Honestly you seriously need to read before you reply . I was answering to a reply where the person said that the new buildings were being built with electric charges after another person saying he won’t be able to have a Ev because he lives in a flat . I said yes unfortunately that it will take 80 years to knock down all the old flats and replace with new ones where they can have electric chargers . My point was that they will need to allow people that charge on the road who live in flats to be able to charge at the same price as you do in your house . Go back and read what I wrote for Gods sake …. It’s not rocket science that it will not take 80 years to place chargers in all the streets . My other point was they can’t even replace the cladding let alone replace old flats with new ..
I thanks China for pushing/forcing the world into this direction. We may have hardships in the short term but overall It is a good thing for the future.
And how is China pushing/forcing this. This is being pushed by western governments to decarbonise. China not having the “legacy” car manufacturers has found much easier to bring out car manufacturers for the direction western governments going. Of course in China much easier for the govt to tell the manufacturers what to do as well. China is still approving and building NEW Coal Power Stations in 2024 whilst UK has shutdown its last coal fired power station. In no way is China pushing or forcing decarbonisation.
In my opinion, I’ve been frustrated with the lack of choices and innovation by legacy auto in the United States where I live. I’m glad Tesla and China have tipped the scales and forced the hand of auto manufacturers to offer competitive products.
You asserted that politicians understand the issues better than us. Brown promoted diesel and was wrong. Few mp's have degrees in science so it is likely that you are wrong, as you are, in stating in this blog that lead is a non-metal
That might depend, in the transcript, where a comma should/might be inserted. Examples of ‘metals and non-metals’ is correct, is it not - when an example of both a metal and non-metal are provided viz Lead and Sulphur. Reading (and listening) are good characteristics that are so often not even nearly achieved by lesser learned individuals. I’ve not actually read the transcript, btw, but those do not always give a perfect transcription of all the speech.
@@jimmys6566 I am suggesting it may not have been an error at all. I did look at the transcript and considered it was not an error - but perhaps you may not have analysed the comment with adequate understanding of the true precision in Dave’s examples of those two elements?
@ I was not disputing that. Your later assumption that he made those two errors was my point re your post re him making two errors. One error is not two errors in my book.
The EV trends are not sustainable. In the current economic climate the demand of the new passenger cars will decrease greatly especially in the much poorer developing countries. Not just the demand of the EV but the ICE cars too, because the companies artificially increasing the price of the ICE cars to reach the CO2 goal. For a small increasing in the EV segment they throw away a big portion of the ICE segment which still generates tha majority of their income. The operation was a success, but the patient died. This is the European Industry future.
I am surprised none of the companies have spawned off a fleet company and sell there "junk company" literally junk cars. I mean how much can a 1 or 2 seater with no bells or whistles at all and a small battery that can go 50 miles. I mean if they make these and sell them to there fleet company to use as run around vehicles they could probably make something cheap enough and sell enough of them at a price they sell to themselves as needed and bam they make the marker for a year or two
Citroen have effectively made a compliance car, sold around 70k, passenger/commerical variants. One advantage in France is the age limits for driving such cars so there is a demographic that can only buy such vehicles. Still pricey for a first car and volume sales of electric city cars have largely been a failure in terms of natural demand as the logistics of charging and living space arrangements within a city. Producing millions of EVs that nobody wants and laying them up in fields after a couple of years is China's forte.
Probably not worth it for just a year or two of sales. Also, there's a minimum standard a new car needs to reach that includes all sorts of expensive tech like LKAS and automated emergency braking.
Yes new flats will all be set up for electric cars but your talking 80 years before they start knocking the old ones down lol they need to sort the cladding out first 😂
80 years, what a cracking totally made up figure. The cladding law actually says by 2029, that's 5 years. And EV chargers can happily be added today many years before the cladding needs to be gone. Busted!!!!
Dave talking crap again, I do not support ice vehicles as I have an EV, but even with a car capable of 50 mpg on fossil fuel even if you utilise 100% efficency from the fuel you would only get around 200 mpg nowhere near 1000 mpg. An ice engine is at least 25% efficent so the theoretical maximum would be 4 time better then we are currently getting. The goverments mandate for net zero by 2050 has already by been dropped to 95% and the promise of cheap electric has gone out the window. Even when EV take up is passed the tipping point the goverment will do their usual thing of raising the taxes on VED and Electricity just enjoy you cheap motoring while you can.
@@brianbailey4565 the point being that car manufacturers aren’t making smaller, lighter vehicles. They could get better than 50 mpg if they built smaller and lighter vehicles (heck, I used to own a Citroen AX diesel that would manage 80 mpg back in the 90s). They are all about making bigger, heavier vehicles with more toys.
@@stevetodd7383this is the old Bill Gates Vs vehicle manufacturer quote. www-users.york.ac.uk/~ss44/joke/crash.htm Interestingly, points 3, 5, 6, 9 and 10 of GM's rebuttal appear at least partly if not wholly true.
I find it very odd that you or anyone else who support tariffs on electric cars do not see the unfairness that ordinary working people like myself are locked out of being able to afford a EV. how does that make sense?
I’m going with Dave on this one. It’s the sentiment that matters. Legacy vehicle manufacturers have deliberately dug their heels in to make as much money as possible rather than invest enough in electrification. I think we would be much better off without them. Start from scratch. What is ridiculous is that just under 30% of Renaults sales are pure electric. Something Dave doesn’t mention because he doesn’t like Renault, instead quoting inaccurate figures.
We don’t want Chinese domination. There does need more pragmatic solutions on net zero to give our own manufacturers and society the time to adopt processes. Otherwise we’ll have mass Job losses, unemployment and higher taxes meaning less people will be able to buy cleaner transportation or be greener, plus China builds them using Cole fire power stations and ships them on massive diesel container ships doing more damage than it improves. More pragmatism and solutions, we’re 1% of global co2. Let’s help the manufacturers not beat them with a stick
@@TMan786 And where do you think that will lead. There will be thousands thrown out of work and you and I will have massive tax rises to pay for all the unemployment. Don't be so narrow minded
'EV's don't have exhaust pipes, so produce no emissions'...I've heard it all now. Being a real goon in this video! And saying those in government know a whole lot more than the public, sorry that's barely true! They have their under-studies who get their info from various motoring interested groups, that will have some or a heavy bias one way or another! There might be the odd group who does not have a bias, but it's rare! Most of this info is on the internet, probably only days after the government get it...unless there's something to hide? I get that Dave is trying relay a message, but he does have some gaping holes in many videos!
Just imagine how good engines would be now and there MPG would be if all the money spend on Ev's had been used on ICE engines. Old cars do way better mpg than new ones just why I had a 2006 2 ltr diseal that did 60 mpg now a 1 ltr 2020 petrol that does 41mpg jeez even my mothers 2011 12 does 40 mpg no investment in engines shows. Oh and before you all rant I am not against Ev's just why just push 1 type of car jusr sell all let the public decide what they want.
Happy for any car type providing it emits no CO2 whilst being driven (or the same or more CO2 is removed from the atmosphere in producing the power source) or any exhaust pipe toxins. At the moment that's BEVs or hydrogen fuel cells ( using green hydrogen). There is very little of the latter. I'm fine with a circa 20 years transition to this, which is what we have got.
I believe the maximum theoretical thermodynamic efficiency of an ICE is 37% and is unlikely ever to be obtained. So an electric motor will be 3x efficient if not more.
@@crm114. for me also comes down to range give me a Ev that will do 500 miles in winter I would buy 1 tomorrow ( this figure I believe we will get to at some point )
Net zero is not a done deal it's upto the people not the government,if people don't want ev's and manufacturers are going under something has to give,Diesel and petrol will be around for years,get with it 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
EV vans are almost at the point of being scrapped as A, the range when fully loaded is dire sub 100 miles in some cases and B, nobody is buying them. Trucks as in class 1 will never be all electric as the battery technology to match the range of diesel is years and years off and also the charging infrastructure is non existent for HGVs. Petrol and diesel will be around for another 40-50 years at least.
@@Nearly-Insane i'm a class 1 driver and we had volvo give us a demo volvo FM with a promised range of 180 miles at 44T and it did 150 miles with 5% left at only 27T,He called volvo to come and get it from the depot.
I wouldn't be able sleep in an electric truck worrying about it bursting into flames charging or not.we are 15-20 years from a decent ev truck.stay safe drive.
Because no one is buying evs. They were purchased as company cars that have tax incentives to lease and are cheaper than their ice counterparts. Secondly, they industry is making pre-registered evs. Autotrader has thousands of these pre-registered cars on its books from 2 and 3 years ago that have very low mileage.
The world is on fire, your enemies are circling you, but you all laugh at it as your house is not burning yet. Who will produce vehicles when they are intentionally run into the ground? The ‘trajectory’ about laptops is completely false. Firstly, laptops didn’t get cheaper, in fact apart from the outdated budget ones, they could be even more expensive than a decade ago. Check Apple and their direct competition or simply the prices for a MacBook Air/Pro. Similarly, suggesting that EVs would cost a few thousands, have a thousand mile range is delusional. Cars could have been produced cheaply in the past, but they were never cheap as governments can manipulate supply and demand, regulations, manufacturing costs, complexity and as such, cars are always kept secondary to home costs. It’s not the market primarily that sets the price, but the government by pushing the market as it sees fit. Petrol is more expensive than electricity due to taxation.
If the current situation is a good result heaven help us when there is a bad one, every entity along the chain (apart from those leasing) from the manufacturers and taxpayer to the dealers and private buyer are already losing money in the game, 1,000 new coal fired power stations across Asia in planning or build out so net result of shiting production to Asia is more CO2. Economics and environmentalism of the nut house.
UK power and transport taxation is based on energy (per kWh), although this may be accounted for differently at the point of purchase (such as per litre of petrol or barrels of crude) in the end it's the per kWh cost that attracts taxation. As it stands the taxation on Petrol is actually lower than the taxation on Electricity for public refueling/charging - even taking 44p per kWh (say at a Tesla supercharger), the total taxation on Electricity (10.4p) is 30% higher than that of Petrol (8p). It just seems higher in ICE vehicles due to their lower energy efficiency (low MPG than the MPGe of electric vehicles) meaning most of that taxation goes up in smoke, wasted to heat.
@GruffSillyGoat You and I went through this in a different thread. The Treasury/HMRC doesn’t say that the fuel duty is reflecting any kWh and the cost of public charging widely ranges between 30-90p that still attracts 20% VAT and no fuel duty whatsoever. These suppliers get their electricity at a very low commercial rate, so it’s simply the government pricing out ICE vehicles through taxation that makes any major difference in fuel costs.
@@ComeJesusChrist - All taxation is based on units of energy, they are just accounted for in more convenient ways such as by 'per litre' at the fuel pump. You stated taxation not fuel-duty, above. If we're comparing taxation my comment is valid. Plus as per the other conversation it would equally valid for the government to re-allocate the taxation for domestic/business energy use electicity as vehicle specific taxation for public charging, rather than seek to add new vehicle specific taxation on top (particularly as the use of electricity is being extended to a new use via Vehicles for which the original tax elements were not intended).
@GruffSillyGoat No, you are wrong. Again, the 20% public charging and 5% home-charging/electricity rate has nothing to do with being or not in line with fuel, which is subject to a fixed fuel duty.
Its worth remembering that the 2035 purchase of ev's target is ONLY for NEW vehicles, NOT second hand. Watch the new ev VED rates that will be announced shortly & are expected to be the final straw in killing off ev sales.......
But VED rates for new ICE cars are set to increase drastically too. It has been stated that the VED rates will always be set in a way that incentivises EV's over ICE. Most major car makers have already spent considerable sums of money on the development and preparation for 100% EV manufacture. There will not be any going back.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the price of used ICE vehicles. Will those vehemently opposed to EV put their money where their mouth is and pay over the odds for an ICE car or will they acquiesce. It will also be interesting to see what happens to filling stations and the price of petrol/diesel.
VED rates are only part of the cost of owning a vehicle, be it ICE or EV. If they are still cheaper than ICE ownership then EV sales will continue to increase. Increasing sales will reduce costs and hence prices. ICE will reduce sales and hence increase costs. There’s a tipping point, that is coming shortly, where EVs will become cheaper than ICE to buy never mind run.
Never mind asking the british tax payer to help the stubborn legacy car makers out, ask the oil giants to bail them out. The people actually making the stuff that is getting burnt seem to be getting off much too lightly. They should be paying a ZE tax to subsidise the car makers.
Oil companies are already shutting down operations in the UK because of insanely high taxation, the 'windfall' taxes they are currently paying makes it pretty much pointless operating in the UK already so where are they getting the money to pay even more tax from.
@@schrodingerscat1863 Everything you have said there is incorrect. The two biggest companies in the UK are Shell and BP... and by some margin, twice the size of the next biggest company. They should be made to pay for the damage their highly profitable products have done to peoples health and the environment. That is the right thing to do, It's as simple as that.
@@stevewest131 Oil industry is shutting down in the UK if you hadn't noticed. Higher taxes will just hasten that. Air quality now is hugely better than it was 30 years ago because technology has allowed cleaner burning of fuels and big efficiency improvements together with moving to gas from coal for electricity and heating has also massively improved the situation. Don't blame the supplier of a fuel when it is the users of the fuel that actually cause the pollution.
@@schrodingerscat1863 So stop using their products then
@@schrodingerscat1863 Maybe from the grants successive Governments have given them.
Since the Paris Agreement in 2015, the UK has given approximately £13.6 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas sector. This includes £9.9 billion in tax reliefs for new exploration and production, and £3.7 billion towards decommissioning costs. Why should we be paying to decommission their plants? they should be using their huge profits to put the land right after they have finished with it not us.
If they are struggling this year on the 22%, imagine what will happen next year when it rises to 28%!
They'll just make and sell more EVs in the UK market, which oddly is the intent of the ZEV mandate.
@14:50mins Dave, Stellantis is NOT closing the Ellesmere Port plant, it's Luton that us closing. Ellesmere Port is expanding. 50m investment, taking on electric van production too. It is one of the only (if not the only) Stellantis factory that only makes EVs.
50% of the Luton production has moved to France.
@@brianbarcroft9167AHH, Brexit raises its ugly head again
@@brianbarcroft9167well labour did just add an annual £7000 N.I. Increase for every employee.
I don’t think it really matter both will, close because then Vauxhall vivaro e I own one, and I get 80 miles out of the 141 and no one wants one absolutely garbage and to get 80 miles you have to have it in eco-mode
I freeze to death
A good summary of the current situation. Thnks Dave.
Dave, although the headline target figure is 22% the real figure is actually lower, closer to 19% (not far off the current 18.7% market share level achieved this month). This is due to a little advertised feature of the Vehicle Emissions Trading Scheme (VETS) that implements the ZEV mandate. As well as the features you pointed out in the video one other key facility is the *_Conversion_* feature, which allows low-CO2 vehicle registrations (those beyond the government's CO2 vehicle sales targets) can be converted to ZEV carbon credit figures. This means manufactures with hybrids (HEVs and PHEVs) as well as certain diesel models can use these to count towards the 22% ZEV target (surrendering a number of vehicle CO2 credits per ZEV carbon credit).
Whilst being able to use ICE/Hybrid registrations towards ZEV targets may seem odd at face value, it's a good incentive as it makes manufactures prioritise BEV production first and low CO2 car production second; the conversion ratio for ICE becoming less effective each year under the VETS scheme.
Aston Martin will not be impacted as the VETS has a floor (2,500 vehicles registrations) below which automakers are not subject to the mandate target or penalties.
your very last comments ring very true.I think the western world is about to face unprecedentd social and economic changes. which EV to buy will be the least of our problems
You lost me at the "Politicians know far more than you or I" statement.
Yes, previous government involvement told everybody to buy diesels as they were better for the environment! MP's are really untrained short term contractors who are generally dropped into jobs they know nothing about.
*UK ZEV Mandate Manufacturer performance Jan - October*
1) Tesla: 100% electric
2) Volvo: 28.4% electric
3) Jeep: 28% electric
4) MG: 27.2% electric
5) BMW: 26.6% electric
6) Cupra: 25% electric
7) Mercedes: 22.6% electric
8) Peugeot: 20.8% electric
9) Lexus: 20.4% electric
10) Porsche: 20% electric
11) Hyundai: 18.8% electric
12) Jaguar: 18.5% electric
13) Vauxhall: 18.2% electric
14) Honda: 17.7% electric
15) Audi: 17.5% electric
16) Mini: 14.9% electric
17) Skoda: 14% electric
18) Fiat: 13.6% electric
19) Kia: 13.2% electric
20) Citroen: 13.1% electric
21) Nissan: 12.3% electric
22) Renault: 12.1% electric
23) VW: 11.8% electric
24) Toyota: 8.3% electric
25) Mazda: 6.7% electric
26) Ford: 6.7% electric
Surprised Lexus is that high. Didn't know they had that many models
The automakers can trade ZEV carbon credits with other manufacturers with high volumes of BEV sales, borrow sales from next year and convert CO2 credits to ZEV credits with their low carbon emission vehicles (such as hybrids). Any automaker with a high proportion of hybrid sales is likely to able to use these to meet the ZEV target.
That Volvo figure is odd, considering the number of pre-registered EX30s that seem to be on offer. Why would they have preregistered to push things well about 22%. Are they going to ahip a lot of ICE cars in the last few weeks of the year?
@@steveunderwood3683 - they may be planning to shift the ZEV credits within the Geely group or sell the credits to other automakers to generate revenue.
14:47 STELLANTIS is *NOT* closing Ellesmere Port. It is closing Luton and transferring manufacturing to Ellesmere Port to improve efficiency.
@@stevenjones916 closing Luton because they can't make the larger EV vans in the old buildings.
First the gov needs to mandate the building of ev charging stations like in norway
Luton closing not Ellesmere Port. Stellantis is moving all van production in the UK to Ellesmere Port . It is now the UK’s first electric vehicle-only manufacturing plant .
No it isn't, France are going to produce ICE vans, they don't need so much space as they won't be producing so many vans in the UK, hence the jobs losses, as a direct result of govt policy.
Correct. STELLANTIS are investing £50 million into Ellesmere Port making it an EV Hub.
@@Festoolification Who mentioned France ? He said UK production.
@@stevenjones916 Stellantis are not moving all van production to Ellesmere, they are reducing it and moving a lot to France.
@@Festoolification - Stellantis is consolidating a number of factories across Europe. As 75% of LCVs made in the UK are for the export market with the majority exported to the EU, then it's not suprising that Luton would be identified for closure. Stellantis have said such several times over, even last July stating that with the continuing renegotiations of car tariffs between the UK and the EU since Brexit that Luton was not viable. Plus Luton has structural problems in that the plant isn't able to support the production of high roof line vans.
In Feb this year Stellantis had a change of heart deciding to give Luton a reprive, planning to upgrade Luton to EV production in order to make smaller LCV EV vans there; the ICEV production was already planned to be shifted to the continent. However, with the poor level of sales of electric vans in the UK this year it appears they appear to no longer wish to fund the upgrade of Luton to EV production but instead swap all EV LCV production to Ellesmere Port.
In this respect the OP is correct in their description of planned van production moving to Ellesmere Port. ICEV has little to do with it as Stellantis already planned to move such to it continental facilities.
Another great vid, Dave. Very informative. 👍
If you owe your bank £1000 you have a problem. If you owe your bank £1000000000 the bank has a problem. The ZEV mandate is not a problem for the consumer but a problem for the government as the car industry collapses in the UK which’ll make this a one term government due to the economic fallout.
Yep and any one bigging up this switch to EV and laughing about those who cant comply are in for big shock.
The ZEV mandate was a conservative party law passed during their majority Government.
The vote was 381 for and 37 against.
Given the tories had a clear majority at this time, this was all their doing.
p.s. we don't have a car production industry any more, we have a car assembly industry, our industry collapsed in the 80s when Mrs T decided we should be a service based economy.
If all we do is assemble foreign companies products, it makes no difference whose cars we buy in this country.
@@EwanV Good you should support it.
@@limitedmark We will be pleased.
November is skewed by pre-registrations.
Closing Luton moving some employees to Elsmere yes?
the solution is to nationalise the charging stations and charge the same rate as charging at home, most people live in either a flat or terrace house and unable to charge at home
please no, Michael. never nationalise EV chargers. BTW you are totally wrong about occupancy. The biggest sector by far are semi and detached houses. And of course many terraced houses and apartments do also have off street parking, others have remote garages and therefore all these can have home chargers.
I hope your right but people living in flats have to pay the same as people on houses . I think it will be discontinued for this reason. My guess is we will all charge outside our homes especially when charging becomes as quick as filling with petrol .
The chart at 17:54 is interesting. To me it shows clearly that premium manufacturers have faired far better than the budget car markers. This might be a pointer to the main route of EV car sales which is company cars - many of which are premium car sales. As EV prices come down and more budget cars are slowly appearing i think things might get better for the lower end of the market but it will always be a tougher market for them.
Well explained Dave. I just feel many will still fail to improve and head for failure.
Of course the simplest thing the government could do would be to remove every penny of tax deduction/ subsidy that they allow the oil companies to claim and reduce those to zero, then watch how much the price of petrol and diesel will go up by to make up the difference so that the dividends paid to oil company shareholders receive. Then watch how the sales of new and used EVs go through the roof………..
No they won’t because it won’t solve the actual issues that EV adoption faces.
It simply makes ICE cars more expensive without actual fixing the underlying issue in the country to wholesale EV adoption.
Range of cars is fine, i defy to find someone who can do 300 miles plus without stopping.
Car price for EV becoming more affordable, that isn’t the issue.
Currently fill up at local Tesco where drive past the petrol station on way in, do my shopping then drive out past the petrol station or dive in and fill up.
Filling up is literally the time to dive in, fill up, pay and drive off. I don’t have to either make a special stop to fill up or go out of way.
Number 1 is lack of home charging and you are not going to fix that.
If could home charge then would have bought an EV last year.
95% of my journeys I could get out and back and then recharge overnight.
I work from home for logistics company but go out to either warehouses being refreshed or brand new ones. Both have one thing in common, as I am putting in the network connection then the charging points are not in place yet, so no only do I not have home charge I don’t get destination charging either.
So that either means stopping off and having to charge at rapid chargers at which point certainly not any cheaper then my current car.
Local chargers are Tesco, which are 7kw chargers. So quite a while to top up. Luckily 15 min walk but would be drive to supermarket, walk home leaving car there. Go back and collect before 3 hour park limit up.
Take back next day and repeat. Currently shows as 44p vs 7p at home.
Alternative is to add 15-20 min on journey time to stop and charge at rapid chargers which is from checking apparently 79p a unit.
And before you suggest the channel in path and drape cable then is 1st floor and the car parking whilst off-road is the other side of the road so you have to get across a road with the charge cable or in plain English isn’t going to happen.
Why should I have to pay 6 to 12 times the price to charge my car compared to someone who can charge at home. The extra pricing making it no cheaper to run an EV then ICE and have the additional time to actually charge my car.
With VED added to EV next year then reduces the gap further when doing the maths.
If you are serious about getting EV adoption going then need to positively make it worth while with the carrot, not the stick.
Like the issue with British housing and the replacement for gas boilers then much of the current stock isn’t suitable for EV.
So of course you could simply have the govt mandate that the current housing stock is cleared and new housing with home charging and suitable design for heat pump with much better insulation put up in place.
Currently filling the car up is call in at supermarket to do food shopping, on way out then instead of driving past filling station then dive in and fill up, pay and be on way again.
Nobody is really being serious about fixing the issue so that EVERYONE can get access to domestic rate charging.
@@michaelmcnally2331your comment is quite comprehensive and balanced. You correctly point out that EVs are great for those that can charge at home. You also need to be able to afford the inflated purchase price as well, but that’s another story. Roughly a third of all houses in the uk will not support home charging. So unless we intend to relegate these people to non-car ownership, this needs resolving and fast. Also, and I have a vested interest here, there are many motoring applications/use cases that currently won’t work with EVs such as long distance/high load applications. Vans are a perfect example of this. For instance there is not a single electric 3.5T van that could be used as a recovery truck. There are currently tens of thousands of these plying their trade. In the future, all car deliveries will have to be using 7.5T diesel lorries. What’s green about that? There are cost implications too. When National deliveries have to be made by lorries instead of vans, it will be inflationary. So long as we all realise this. And all the while China, India etc carry on regardless having a good giggle at our expense
Just got a new bev.
All the c segment cars were £25-£26k after discounts. Which really is where they need to be anyway (not £40k).
The payments on any of them on pcp matched the lease deal i was on for an Corsa-e, which matched the payments i was making on a diesel Insignia 4 years ago.
The real problem with end of year fire sales is that anyone sensible won't pay the higher prices charged the rest of the time.
Don't expect the PCP deals to remain this cheap, providers are being left with a lot of cars they can't sell on right now so are taking a loss to shift them in the second hand market. At some point this is going to get passed onto new PCP contracts.
And who is going to buy an EV if they live in a flat or a terraced house where a lead to charge the vehicle at home has to go out of a window or across a pavement, which is illegal in the UK. It'll never be possible for the nation to go 100% EV. Also, the cost of charging at home WILL go up and as now, to charge in a service station etc is far more expensive than filling up a petrol or diesel car
This will change in 10 years or so time your see a charger on every lamp post . And it will be the same cost as filling an ice car would have been …
Also even if it’s more expensive it will be the same for everyone .
80% of car drivers have off road parking. Of the 20% left some will be able to charge at work. I know a few people in flats who use friends / family chargers. In a few years people will charge at the shops.
@@trickshotishand what about where there is no street parking for residents. I stick by what I say, it'll never go 100% EV.
And the people who have home chargers will pay more to charge as the smart meter will identify that amount used to charge the car, hence charged more.
Dave, you may want to check your 'facts' - I nearly fell off my chair when you suggested BMW was an older company than Mercedes-Benz... not least because Karl Benz registered his company in 1885 whereas BMW didn't come into existence until 1916. Karl Benz of course was the inventor of the car in the modern sense of the word.
If every driver gets an electric car it will be a lucky dip if you get any electricity to charge it with.Thats unless you buy a diesel generator to charge it with.
That has to be a concern. I was thinking, EVs currently account for 5% of vehicles. So by my maths, there are 20 times more to come. That’s 20 times the current amount of electricity. 20 times the current number of people frequenting public chargers. Has anybody a plan for this?
Good summary Dave.
Though I would suggest the previous govt had a “target” but not ”plan”.
Or at least not a plan with any more thought and detail that a 6th former would use for a A-Level project.
Liebour have very few real plans on anything. The new ICE sales ban being one of the rare exceptions. Which I support btw for public health air pollution reasons (the stuff other rhan C02).
@@paulbuckingham15what new ICE sales ban?
Very informative video thanks Dave
Toyota underinvested and undersold on EVs, being convinced that Hydrogen-Electric Vehicles are the future. So until that was ready, Toyota were lobbying hard to keep ICE and Hybrid vehicles as the norm. Unfortunately for them, Hydrogen is not receiving much adoption (there are currently issues producing, storing and transporting it safely because it is ridiculously volatile). So Toyota have shot themselves in the foot as the EVs they do sell lack in the efficiency departments. The best EVs are getting 3.5-4 Miles per kWh. Toyota are languishing at 2.7 Miles per kWh with smaller battery packs and have some serious catching up to do to make their EVs appealing enough when the likes of Tesla, VW and even Stellantis all have appealing options at different price points.
So does less than the range of the Leaf. Leaf is afforable .
We need a video on the constant Tesla prices increase... I am away up at 51p off peak now 😮
BMW sells to the heavily subsidised company car market. Many large companies give their employees no option other than EV for company cars. Lease deals on these cars has massively increased as lease companies are pricing in zero value at the end of a 5 year lease. What are the sales figures for BYD and Geely in the uk. 40% of very little is next to nothing.
Lease companies are pricing in zero value? Don’t make laugh?
@ yes they are lease prices have gone up massively a 60 month EV is practically worthless and the lease rates are showing this. On many EVs the lease prices have doubled once the market adjusted for the manufacturer discounts and lack of secondhand demand has created fields of unsold EVs. The auctions are full of EVs that can’t make CAP clean and remain unsold. Main dealers have warrantied EVs on their forecourts advertised below CAP clean that don’t sell. Take something simple like the ID Buzz earlier this year leased price was £313 a month it’s now £540. The lease company is increasing the cost because the estimated resale value is half what they thought.
60x540 = £32,400
60x314 = £18,840
The lease company is calculating that depreciation will be £13,500 more than calculated 6 months ago.
@@tobycolin6271 Yeah of course it does. You never see any privately owned BMWs do you?
@@tobycolin6271 Hmmm.
First, the ID Buzz is a £64k vehicle, The depreciated value will be 30% to 40% of the original value in 5 years, even £540 implies the lease is subsidised below market value.
Second, a quick google shows £375-£409 per month for 48 months direct from VW available now.
@ I can see where the figures are different you’ve forgotten the 12 month initial payment or £4800. This used to be £3130 earlier in the year. Anyway the point is lease prices for EVs are going up due to depreciation by 35% despite this being the time of year where leases are traditionally lowest and pre registration of EVs is highest (low sales volume in December can make low selling models look good in % terms). ICE on the other hand seems to be much more stable as the ice market depreciation is not affected by massive dealer discount because the manufacturers of frozen ice sales to meet EV targets.
Excellent update Dave.Thank you.👍👍
It's easy to manipulate statistics. Many of the so called EV sales are not actual sales but cars being preregistered to try and meet the ZEV mandate. People who think they are being virtuous by thinking that their EV has zero emissions are deluded.
The fact that the manufacture of an EV has a massive emission problems to include the mining of rare earth minerals, the transporting them to refining plants and then onto the battery manufacturers. These then have to be transported to the car assembly plants along with the steel and plastic components required.The finished cars then have to be distributed around the world. So in effect an EV owner has just transfered all his toxic emissions to some other poor people , probably mainly in Africa and the Far East and who knows where else.
Nobody makes money selling EVs, its all about who can throw the most public money at them. The CCP was always going to win that contest. About half a TRILLION $ by some estimates. Let them have the entire EV 'market' if they want that albatross. They can pay for all the chargers too if they want. Let the free world sell the cars people actually want and the problem is solved overnight.
Tesla has the highest profit margins in the auto industry. You have to produce a lot of EVs to make a profit, but it certainly can be done.
@@amosbatto3051 Elon has said he only really makes profit in China. But how much is from actually from selling EVs themselves at market value, and how much is from subsidies, carbon credits, free factories etc etc. Ultimately the cars cost more to manufacture than people are willing to pay for something with such limitations.
Great video as usual but one point I noticed , Mercedes is over 100 years old , it’s the oldest carmaker and invented the car . Carl Benz’s wife made the first ‘ long ‘ distance journey in a ICE car and had range anxiety , history repeats itself lol ! It also used to own BMW and what was then Audi . Modern BMW is only about 70 years old and used to make aircraft engines before it was cars , that’s why its badge is a spinning propeller .
Stukas apparently
@@stevenbarrett7648doesn’t really work considering whilst BMW made aero engines the Ju87 Stuka had Jumo 211 engines not BMW.
@@michaelmcnally2331 whatever they made they should have been closed down when Germany lost this second war, same for Krupp's, Siemens and all the other businesses over there that used slave labour
They will charge at the petrol station where the petrol pumps used to be 😂
6/10 of the vehicles BYD manufacture are PHEVs and their sales are growing much faster than their BEVs.
And PHEVs aren't ZEVs.
Those BYD purchasers will change their mind for their next BYD car as they find they have wasted their money on a PHEV. BYD PHEV's do have an advantage for those that live in remote areas of the world (not Europe).
@3:28 Nonsense.
*Best Selling Vehicles in London 2024*
1) Tesla Model 3
2) Nissan Leaf
3) Mini Cooper
4) VW Golf
5) BMW 3 Series
6) Toyota Prius
7) Ford Fiesta
8) Audi A3
9) Hyundai Kona Electric
10) Renault Zoe
*Source: London Loves Business*
Dave, what happens with a company like Renault who's production is 30% EVs in Europe as a whole but, according to your graph, only 5% in the UK?
They get a massive fine. EU sales don't count towards the total.
@robinbennett5994 I didn't say EU. I said European.
At the moment it's based on UK sales. So fines or buying credits is the consequence if they miss UK targets.
January to October, Renault were 12.1% BEV. That percentage will shoot up when the 5 is launched and rise again when the 4 is launched.
@stevenjones916 That's the UK figure? According to Dave's graph it was 5%.
Why are BMW and Mercedes BEVs selling well ? Because their vehicles have always been expensive so their customers don't suffer *"Sticker Price Shock"* when they go into the showroom.
I would also point out that being higher price cars that the people buying these cars brand new tend to have homes where can home charge.
Quite frankly if you can home charge then buying an EV is a no brainer.
Govt figures show 80% of EV charging done at home.
So you obviously don’t like Ford. Just say it.
Yep we will all go back to being ripped off in the end …
Total rubbish. My first car did about 25 to the gallon, and it was a small car, compared to todays cars, which do 40 to 50 miles per gallon and are bigger cars.
Quoting Chinese cars...any of them, as quality, is not in my book!
I have used Chinese wire at work and it's pretty rubbish. We soon changed our supplier!
China can supply any quality you want.
Suzuki have made an EV. It’s called the E Vitara goes on sale summer 2025
Suzuki have not made an EV, they have made pre-production models of what they hope to launch in 2025.
@ it will come
Ford and VW have been sharing platforms and powertrains for decades, petrol and diesel. It is nothing new or exclusive to BEVs.
Indeed, and Ford will be making VWs vans next. My partner's dad went over to Germany nearly 30yrs ago to help design the Galaxy/Sharan shared platform.
MG might be ok
If you believe all the cladding and old buildings will be knocked down and replaced by 2029 you need to go and have head looked into .
You do know how many buildings are waiting to have the cladding replaced ????
All the buildings knocked down? Are you serious? Replacing cladding does not need every building to be replaced, the clue is in the words.
@
Honestly you seriously need to read before you reply .
I was answering to a reply where the person said that the new buildings were being built with electric charges after another person saying he won’t be able to have a Ev because he lives in a flat . I said yes unfortunately that it will take 80 years to knock down all the old flats and replace with new ones where they can have electric chargers . My point was that they will need to allow people that charge on the road who live in flats to be able to charge at the same price as you do in your house . Go back and read what I wrote for Gods sake …. It’s not rocket science that it will not take 80 years to place chargers in all the streets . My other point was they can’t even replace the cladding let alone replace old flats with new ..
There's a much simpler & cheaper way to help the environment & personally be net zero compliant.
Just buy carbon offsets.
From whom will you buy that many? Even simpler, I could open my freezer door for a few hours each day to cool down global warming.
I thanks China for pushing/forcing the world into this direction. We may have hardships in the short term but overall It is a good thing for the future.
Who would have thought we'd ever be saying that!
Ah yes, China. The most polluting nation on earth
My comment seems to have “disappeared” - how strange! Maybe pointing out that China is the most polluting country in the world isn’t acceptable?
And how is China pushing/forcing this. This is being pushed by western governments to decarbonise. China not having the “legacy” car manufacturers has found much easier to bring out car manufacturers for the direction western governments going. Of course in China much easier for the govt to tell the manufacturers what to do as well.
China is still approving and building NEW Coal Power Stations in 2024 whilst UK has shutdown its last coal fired power station.
In no way is China pushing or forcing decarbonisation.
In my opinion, I’ve been frustrated with the lack of choices and innovation by legacy auto in the United States where I live. I’m glad Tesla and China have tipped the scales and forced the hand of auto manufacturers to offer competitive products.
You asserted that politicians understand the issues better than us. Brown promoted diesel and was wrong. Few mp's have degrees in science so it is likely that you are wrong, as you are, in stating in this blog that lead is a non-metal
That might depend, in the transcript, where a comma should/might be inserted. Examples of ‘metals and non-metals’ is correct, is it not - when an example of both a metal and non-metal are provided viz Lead and Sulphur.
Reading (and listening) are good characteristics that are so often not even nearly achieved by lesser learned individuals. I’ve not actually read the transcript, btw, but those do not always give a perfect transcription of all the speech.
@@oliver90owner it's not the only error....
and it's certainly imprecise, at best.
He also thinks Ellesmere Port is in Luton
@@jimmys6566 I am suggesting it may not have been an error at all. I did look at the transcript and considered it was not an error - but perhaps you may not have analysed the comment with adequate understanding of the true precision in Dave’s examples of those two elements?
@@oliver90owner the context is that he doesn't know the difference between Luton and Ellesmere Port
@ I was not disputing that. Your later assumption that he made those two errors was my point re your post re him making two errors. One error is not two errors in my book.
The EV trends are not sustainable. In the current economic climate the demand of the new passenger cars will decrease greatly especially in the much poorer developing countries. Not just the demand of the EV but the ICE cars too, because the companies artificially increasing the price of the ICE cars to reach the CO2 goal. For a small increasing in the EV segment they throw away a big portion of the ICE segment which still generates tha majority of their income. The operation was a success, but the patient died. This is the European Industry future.
I am surprised none of the companies have spawned off a fleet company and sell there "junk company" literally junk cars. I mean how much can a 1 or 2 seater with no bells or whistles at all and a small battery that can go 50 miles. I mean if they make these and sell them to there fleet company to use as run around vehicles they could probably make something cheap enough and sell enough of them at a price they sell to themselves as needed and bam they make the marker for a year or two
Citroen have effectively made a compliance car, sold around 70k, passenger/commerical variants. One advantage in France is the age limits for driving such cars so there is a demographic that can only buy such vehicles. Still pricey for a first car and volume sales of electric city cars have largely been a failure in terms of natural demand as the logistics of charging and living space arrangements within a city. Producing millions of EVs that nobody wants and laying them up in fields after a couple of years is China's forte.
Probably not worth it for just a year or two of sales. Also, there's a minimum standard a new car needs to reach that includes all sorts of expensive tech like LKAS and automated emergency braking.
Horse coming out
...you have a gay horse?😂
Yes new flats will all be set up for electric cars but your talking 80 years before they start knocking the old ones down lol they need to sort the cladding out first 😂
80 years, what a cracking totally made up figure. The cladding law actually says by 2029, that's 5 years. And EV chargers can happily be added today many years before the cladding needs to be gone. Busted!!!!
Dave talking crap again, I do not support ice vehicles as I have an EV, but even with a car capable of 50 mpg on fossil fuel even if you utilise 100% efficency from the fuel you would only get around 200 mpg nowhere near 1000 mpg. An ice engine is at least 25% efficent so the theoretical maximum would be 4 time better then we are currently getting. The goverments mandate for net zero by 2050 has already by been dropped to 95% and the promise of cheap electric has gone out the window. Even when EV take up is passed the tipping point the goverment will do their usual thing of raising the taxes on VED and Electricity just enjoy you cheap motoring while you can.
Erm, what he said is that if ICE had improved like PCs THEN they would do 1000 mpg (true, but they would also be the size of a matchbox).
@stevetodd7383 as I said talking crap, what's the point about talking about that, you can't fit in a match box or go beyond the laws of physics.
@@brianbailey4565 the point being that car manufacturers aren’t making smaller, lighter vehicles. They could get better than 50 mpg if they built smaller and lighter vehicles (heck, I used to own a Citroen AX diesel that would manage 80 mpg back in the 90s). They are all about making bigger, heavier vehicles with more toys.
@@stevetodd7383 Is part of that increase in size linked to the ever increasing safety standards.
@@stevetodd7383this is the old Bill Gates Vs vehicle manufacturer quote.
www-users.york.ac.uk/~ss44/joke/crash.htm
Interestingly, points 3, 5, 6, 9 and 10 of GM's rebuttal appear at least partly if not wholly true.
I find it very odd that you or anyone else who support tariffs on electric cars do not see the unfairness that ordinary working people like myself are locked out of being able to afford a EV. how does that make sense?
I’m going with Dave on this one. It’s the sentiment that matters. Legacy vehicle manufacturers have deliberately dug their heels in to make as much money as possible rather than invest enough in electrification. I think we would be much better off without them. Start from scratch. What is ridiculous is that just under 30% of Renaults sales are pure electric. Something Dave doesn’t mention because he doesn’t like Renault, instead quoting inaccurate figures.
Several manufacturers will pull out of the uk
That's fine. The Chinese will replace them. The legacy auto can race to become the next Blackberry.
Mitsubishi has already gone.
Good. We'll have the clean ones.
We don’t want Chinese domination. There does need more pragmatic solutions on net zero to give our own manufacturers and society the time to adopt processes. Otherwise we’ll have mass Job losses, unemployment and higher taxes meaning less people will be able to buy cleaner transportation or be greener, plus China builds them using Cole fire power stations and ships them on massive diesel container ships doing more damage than it improves. More pragmatism and solutions, we’re 1% of global co2. Let’s help the manufacturers not beat them with a stick
@@TMan786 And where do you think that will lead. There will be thousands thrown out of work and you and I will have massive tax rises to pay for all the unemployment. Don't be so narrow minded
'EV's don't have exhaust pipes, so produce no emissions'...I've heard it all now. Being a real goon in this video!
And saying those in government know a whole lot more than the public, sorry that's barely true!
They have their under-studies who get their info from various motoring interested groups, that will have some or a heavy bias one way or another! There might be the odd group who does not have a bias, but it's rare!
Most of this info is on the internet, probably only days after the government get it...unless there's something to hide?
I get that Dave is trying relay a message, but he does have some gaping holes in many videos!
The car makers that planned well?
Why do you talk so slowly
Just imagine how good engines would be now and there MPG would be if all the money spend on Ev's had been used on ICE engines. Old cars do way better mpg than new ones just why I had a 2006 2 ltr diseal that did 60 mpg now a 1 ltr 2020 petrol that does 41mpg jeez even my mothers 2011 12 does 40 mpg no investment in engines shows. Oh and before you all rant I am not against Ev's just why just push 1 type of car jusr sell all let the public decide what they want.
Happy for any car type providing it emits no CO2 whilst being driven (or the same or more CO2 is removed from the atmosphere in producing the power source) or any exhaust pipe toxins. At the moment that's BEVs or hydrogen fuel cells ( using green hydrogen). There is very little of the latter. I'm fine with a circa 20 years transition to this, which is what we have got.
I believe the maximum theoretical thermodynamic efficiency of an ICE is 37% and is unlikely ever to be obtained. So an electric motor will be 3x efficient if not more.
@@crm114. for me also comes down to range give me a Ev that will do 500 miles in winter I would buy 1 tomorrow ( this figure I believe we will get to at some point )
@@paulbuckingham15I’d be amazed if H2 cars ever take off. Just too inefficient use of energy.
@@Kai_of_lexxThat would be nice. Mine will do about half that which is enough for me.
Net zero is not a done deal it's upto the people not the government,if people don't want ev's and manufacturers are going under something has to give,Diesel and petrol will be around for years,get with it 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
EV vans are almost at the point of being scrapped as A, the range when fully loaded is dire sub 100 miles in some cases and B, nobody is buying them. Trucks as in class 1 will never be all electric as the battery technology to match the range of diesel is years and years off and also the charging infrastructure is non existent for HGVs. Petrol and diesel will be around for another 40-50 years at least.
@@Nearly-Insane i'm a class 1 driver and we had volvo give us a demo volvo FM with a promised range of 180 miles at 44T and it did 150 miles with 5% left at only 27T,He called volvo to come and get it from the depot.
I wouldn't be able sleep in an electric truck worrying about it bursting into flames charging or not.we are 15-20 years from a decent ev truck.stay safe drive.
Fear not.
The madness mandate will be scrapped around 2027.
Thanks mystic Meg…
Yeah when reform get into government, I imagine😂😂😂😂😂 oh look a flying pig!
You're very welcome 😁
And you know this because????
Because no one is buying evs. They were purchased as company cars that have tax incentives to lease and are cheaper than their ice counterparts. Secondly, they industry is making pre-registered evs. Autotrader has thousands of these pre-registered cars on its books from 2 and 3 years ago that have very low mileage.
I loved the Fiesta, but FORD EV's are a joke. The Capri😂😂😂
The Ford Explorer BEV matched Tesla's efficiency on Car Wow's recent road test comparison video.
@@stevenjones916 How exciting!
The world is on fire, your enemies are circling you, but you all laugh at it as your house is not burning yet.
Who will produce vehicles when they are intentionally run into the ground?
The ‘trajectory’ about laptops is completely false. Firstly, laptops didn’t get cheaper, in fact apart from the outdated budget ones, they could be even more expensive than a decade ago. Check Apple and their direct competition or simply the prices for a MacBook Air/Pro.
Similarly, suggesting that EVs would cost a few thousands, have a thousand mile range is delusional. Cars could have been produced cheaply in the past, but they were never cheap as governments can manipulate supply and demand, regulations, manufacturing costs, complexity and as such, cars are always kept secondary to home costs. It’s not the market primarily that sets the price, but the government by pushing the market as it sees fit. Petrol is more expensive than electricity due to taxation.
If the current situation is a good result heaven help us when there is a bad one, every entity along the chain (apart from those leasing) from the manufacturers and taxpayer to the dealers and private buyer are already losing money in the game, 1,000 new coal fired power stations across Asia in planning or build out so net result of shiting production to Asia is more CO2. Economics and environmentalism of the nut house.
UK power and transport taxation is based on energy (per kWh), although this may be accounted for differently at the point of purchase (such as per litre of petrol or barrels of crude) in the end it's the per kWh cost that attracts taxation. As it stands the taxation on Petrol is actually lower than the taxation on Electricity for public refueling/charging - even taking 44p per kWh (say at a Tesla supercharger), the total taxation on Electricity (10.4p) is 30% higher than that of Petrol (8p).
It just seems higher in ICE vehicles due to their lower energy efficiency (low MPG than the MPGe of electric vehicles) meaning most of that taxation goes up in smoke, wasted to heat.
@GruffSillyGoat You and I went through this in a different thread. The Treasury/HMRC doesn’t say that the fuel duty is reflecting any kWh and the cost of public charging widely ranges between 30-90p that still attracts 20% VAT and no fuel duty whatsoever. These suppliers get their electricity at a very low commercial rate, so it’s simply the government pricing out ICE vehicles through taxation that makes any major difference in fuel costs.
@@ComeJesusChrist - All taxation is based on units of energy, they are just accounted for in more convenient ways such as by 'per litre' at the fuel pump.
You stated taxation not fuel-duty, above. If we're comparing taxation my comment is valid. Plus as per the other conversation it would equally valid for the government to re-allocate the taxation for domestic/business energy use electicity as vehicle specific taxation for public charging, rather than seek to add new vehicle specific taxation on top (particularly as the use of electricity is being extended to a new use via Vehicles for which the original tax elements were not intended).
@GruffSillyGoat No, you are wrong. Again, the 20% public charging and 5% home-charging/electricity rate has nothing to do with being or not in line with fuel, which is subject to a fixed fuel duty.
Its worth remembering that the 2035 purchase of ev's target is ONLY for NEW vehicles, NOT second hand.
Watch the new ev VED rates that will be announced shortly & are expected to be the final straw in killing off ev sales.......
But VED rates for new ICE cars are set to increase drastically too. It has been stated that the VED rates will always be set in a way that incentivises EV's over ICE. Most major car makers have already spent considerable sums of money on the development and preparation for 100% EV manufacture. There will not be any going back.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the price of used ICE vehicles. Will those vehemently opposed to EV put their money where their mouth is and pay over the odds for an ICE car or will they acquiesce. It will also be interesting to see what happens to filling stations and the price of petrol/diesel.
VED rates are only part of the cost of owning a vehicle, be it ICE or EV. If they are still cheaper than ICE ownership then EV sales will continue to increase. Increasing sales will reduce costs and hence prices. ICE will reduce sales and hence increase costs. There’s a tipping point, that is coming shortly, where EVs will become cheaper than ICE to buy never mind run.
@@Brian-om2hh No, they will be going bankrupt