IMPORTANT: In the video I show an image of a workshop with an excessively long length of flex hose. I found the image on Google and thought it was a humorous example of a big piece of hose. I neglected to provide context for the image. The gentleman in the photo was attaching that hose to a much more powerful system than is found in most small workshops. He could afford to lose some airflow from the long flex hose, and it works well for him. By not providing that context I made it appear that HE was making a mistake rather than my intended point, which is that most OTHER folks should not do that with their single-stage systems. I am sorry I didn't make that clear, which is why I have removed the image from the video thumbnail and I am pinning this comment to the top so everyone can see it.
I always turn to your videos to sanity check anything else I watch. No b/s, no over-the-top distracting behaviour, even your promo material is handled professionally. Thank you for being so much help to a budding woodworker.
If you have a limited budget, and have time to wait for the right deal, my experience might help. I noticed an ad on Craigslist for a shop closing, and quite a few tools for sale. Great selection, but overpriced. The 10 year old workshop was a custom 1 man shop, business died, and he was going back to working as a trade school woodworking teacher. He had a large dust collection system, and I enquired about that, he said, "it would take a week to disassemble, I'll just leave it in place when I move out". I offered $200 for everything, and promised to have it out in a week. I ended up with a 4 bag 5 Hp system, with a large cyclone, and more than enough metal piping to complete my whole 1000 sq ft woodshop. So, enter : "closing shop" or similar into CL, and maybe you will find a great deal like I did.
You are a natural narrator! I didn't notice a single "uh" or "um" and your flow of information was smooth as a planed plank of pine, not to mention mighty handy to have in my brain pan! Well done and I've subscribed and punched the like button too!
Nice tip on the fire hazards of sweeping up nails hitting the impeller. Thank you for taking the time to make this video, it will save me lots of time and money.
This is one of the best guides to shop dust collection. In my nearly 50 years of furniture making, I have made most of the mistakes with my systems.If only I could have had this guidance many years ago! I now have mostly short runs, blast gates on all machinery, a single stage collector, and a cyclone. I hardly have any flexible ductwork. When I built my current house, I laid 4” pvc pipe in trenches before the basement slab was poured, coming up at each (planned) piece of equipment. It took a bit of planning and was a leap of faith, but the system has worked well over the last 28 years. Thanks for your great presentation.
This should be an example for all TH-cam to follow imho; straight forward, easy to understand, well organized and informative! Well done, I'll be back.
Great video with a lot of information packed into it. I was very glad that you made the statement that assuming you set your expectations properly, a single stage system may be fine for a small shop woodworker. With all due respect to Bill Pentz, the ability to install a semi-industrial 5HP+ cyclone system with 8" ducts and custom hoods on all machines is simply far beyond the reach of average weekend woodworker. While it would be absolutely necessary for someone exposed on a daily basis, for someone who might make a half a dozen cuts on a table saw every other week, such a setup is simply impractical. Too many internet dust collection pundits insist that your are just wasting your time unless you are going all the way to the extreme, leaving many to give up in frustration and go for nothing.
I wish I'd just watched your video first, it's more comprehensive than the 15 or so videos I've previously spent time watching on TH-cam all combined. New Subscriber here.
I am just becoming a fan of your instructional and review videos. They are the best in terms of detail and underlying rationale. You are also a naturally good presenter, using clear language, concise points, linear-logical progression. You are a very good teacher. The reliance that you have on your own experiences (both good and bad results) is a perfect exclamation mark to the points being made.
After reviewing the video, I started looking through my dust collection system to determine any leaks that could be occurring on 6 blast gates... It hadn't dawned on me that the metal gates were installed the wrong way (tightner needing to be on the back side facing the intake hose to secure the seal when gate is closed). Wow.. closely inspecting the blast gates, I could see the small thin spacing between the closed gate and the intake. Reinstalled and did see significant improvement with the air-flow coming through now .. thanks Stub
You're right Stumpy, in my small basement shop, I use a Harbor Freight single stage dust collector (originally used with its bag filter) and got AMAZING improvement after I replaced the bag with a Wynn Environmental cannister. I also used a Thein baffle that I made from their website. So the dirty air hits my Thein baffle first, then the Wynn filter, then the overflow falls into a gamma lid pail. My overflow pail sees next to nothing. I use the system a couple times a week. The huge pressure loss from the Wynn filter must be just what the Thein baffle needs to perform as well or better than my 7.5 hp commercial Delta cyclone system at the shop. Great video, thanks.
A great post. After a lot of trial and error I have the Oneida after market black cyclone, a 2HP collector with filter bags top and bottom in a closet venting outside and 6” hose on the top of the cyclone and 1 shrinking 5” hose to whatever machine I am using. Also a box air filter hanging from the ceiling. This is finally doing the trick.
I went back today and re-worked my dust collector system today and moved the gates near the main feeds and the air flow really changed for the better. Great tip!
You are spot on about using the right type of steel pipe and joints for dust collection systems. I worked in a very nice woodworking shop that had a large dust collection system. Problem was the airflow was so low. Since I was a metal fabricator as well as a woodworker I examined the duct work. As you observed, the seams leaked like a sieve. So, I took on the job of sealing every joint with high quality heat activated tape. It took me several days to do it. Afterwards it was like night and day. It became so powerful the floor sweeps would pull the sawdust and small pieces vertically through a six inch pipe 12 feet high! The shop stayed so much cleaner after that. Good video as usual.
As an operator of multiple large industrial dust collections systems I would say this is an excellent collection of wisdom. We have a strict policy against “floor sweeps”, they are bad and very unsafe for large systems. If you need a floor sweep your system is not designed right. The only advice I would add is to look at the collection right at the source, are you trying to catch the dust or capture as it fly’s by the opening. Many machines are not designed well for efficient dust capture at the source. Thanks for the video.
@Mike Dillon. I don’t have “working knowledge”, but rather “casual knowledge”. From from my work experience, shouldn’t all ductwork of this type and use, also be of a grounding type ductwork to prevent electro static discharge?
@@charlieodom9107 Thanks for the answer. I retired from Boeing almost 6 years ago. We made titanium structures for the aircraft. In the production lines we developed, where ever titanium chips or dust were collected by vacuum, the portable vacuums were required to be explosion proof. One bench mechanic was using a small hand held pneumatic vacuum and it exploded in his hand. He wasn’t injured, just unpleasantly surprised. The root cause was determined to be static discharge in the canvas collection bag. We had a large central vacuum system in the building but the production lines we developed used portable shop vac’s and they were required to be explosion proof after that incident.
I bought 2 of the Harbor Freight dust collectors about 7 years ago, I have large PVC pipes with some Y's and 90's, but I have to say these are the best machines I've ever bought from them, I bought some gates to go along with them, but when I ran out of gates and they didn't have any in stock at the time, I built my own out of wood. I haven't had a problem with these ever, I've made sure to seal all the joints tightly and YES I have also added grounding wire, very important I think. I do use vac's for smaller tools, just makes sense to me. great video by the way, as usual very instructional.
Matthias Wandel recently posted a number of dust collection related videos, including one with hard numbers comparing a shop vac and a homemade induction motor impeller, and different sizes of hose. A good companion video to this one
He has also gone the route of building dedicated dust/chip solutions for many of his tools. Local =short distance and dedicated = more tailored air flow or pressure for each tool. Also gives redundancy in the room. Personally I think he just likes building things. :-)
@@frederickwood9116take for example the common dewalt 13 inch planer. The thing has a chip blower built right in - all you need to do is duct it to a trashcan and put a canister filter on to exhaust it.
Found this video and it solved my CNC dust collection problem. I was reducing 4" to 2.5" and it was not working. Your point of air volume, not pressure solved my problem. I cut a 4" hole in my CNC enclose so it could draw full air. Then put the 2.5" hose inside of the 4". The CNC has good collection and the 4" hose is trapping find dust in the enclose. Thank you Stumpy
Been researching dust collection systems for a while now. This is by far the best advice I have seen when it comes to dust collection. Thanks, you’ve earned my subscription to your channel.
After Bill Pentz (sorry 😔, no harm intended) I consider your explanations to be the most comprehensive ones out there on the subjects you discuss. You are absolutely thorough and all inclusive in every thing you discuss. I have read literally every thing Mr. Pentz wrote plus and a lot more on the topic of dust collection and can only agree with everything you said in this video (and every other ones of your videos I watched). Thank you for the high professional level of your productions. Paul
I got a single stage Jet and didn't like the expense of the cartridge filters not to mention what it might take to clean them. I ended up attaching a round piece of plywood (routed underneath with a round nose bit for a tighter fit) to the top the the collector using the existing spring clips to hold it down that came with the machine. I made a hole in the top to accommodate the 4" PVC that comes out of the top and with an elbow attaches to a dryer vent about 1" away on the wall. The large chips fall in to the bag while the fine dust goes outside of my shop via a dryer vent.
I researched dust collection in depth when I set up my dust collection "system" 25 years ago. After looking at everything including the various costs of all of the options, I went with my Craftsman shop vac with a Cleanstream Gortex .5 micron filter and 2.5" flex hose. I ran a hose from each machine that I connect directly to my shop vac when in use, keeping the lengths rather short. It works perfectly even on my table saw once I blocked off all of the gaps around the saw. It absolutely devours the chips from my planer and jointer as well. I'm not a professional woodworker by any means but for most of us weekend warriors, this is going to be your best deal and do a great job without breaking the bank or taking up valuable shop real estate.
@@macklevine8369 I bought it in the mid 1990's while I was building our house. It's a Craftsman 6hp that also converts into a leaf blower. It still runs like a champ and every few years I take a damp cloth with a touch of dish soap and wipe the entire thing down inside and out after blowing out the motor housing with compressed air and it looks like brand new again. I'm pretty sure they don't make them like this anymore.
I’m a beginning woodworker, after completing a project I realized that I needed some kind of dust collection system in my garage workshop. I started designing a system around my shopvac. Thank you for this posting. I’m now re-thinking dust collection and my shop layout.
Thank you for this video, you've just saved me a lot of money and time. I'll stick with my shopvac for the time being rather than buying all the pipes and fittings and a dust collector as I was about to do.
Thanks for this. I "inherited" my school shop about 4 years ago when our previous shop teacher retired and it has always had dust issues in the 16 years I've been working at the school, including failed filtration that had allowed everything from dust to wood chips bypassing the filtration on one collector. Shop was built sometime in the late '60's early '70's and a second collection system added (with equipment expansions) in the late '70's. You've given me a LOT to look at and bring up to speed. Thank you, again, for this.
This is actually the best overview of shop Vacuums, chip separators, Cyclones vacuums that I’ve ever seen. And great info on the types of tubing that can be used. I even talked to fire departments that didn’t catch the fact I do more welding than woodworking. I knew I would need separate systems. Good job on the narration.
Great Video. After dragging 4 inch hose on the floor for 25 years, I finally put in a 25 foot straight run of 4 inch PVC overhead with minimal connections to tools. I wish i had found this video first, but I actually did well with minimal bends and blast gates. thanks!
As an Architectural Technologist, I have a fair understanding of air flow and resistance from a time when we thought warm air heating was good idea. Nevertheless, you have taught me stuff I did not know and made me more aware of the stuff I should know. It just goes to show; "You are never to old to learn". Thanks, Stumpy.
Thank you very much! I have been using a shop vac for my big belt sander as that is all I had. I have been wanting to upgrade my dust collection since I started using it. This is way more information than I have found on any other channel.
Let me be the first to say this was a "sucky" video with lots of useful tips. I'm heading out to my shop and shorten a couple of runs and tape up some leaky seams.
I am in the stages of planning a workshop, I have observed several setups in various shops. In particular, a well known woodworking store has their set up with many ‘don’ts’ you described. Another , I found at an estate sale, was set up in all the right ways. Massive Oneida system using metal duct designed for this purpose, limited flex hose, proper use of gates, the works. I wanted to have the whole shop airlifted to my property as is..😜. I took lots of pictures. One thing you did not touch on, the air cleaner. When is one needed and its overall purpose. Thank you again for this video. I will be doing more research using the link you provided.
I don't do woodwork but TH-cam decided to suggest your video to me. I was not disappointed! Awesome tips very well explained and logical. Thanks for the video
Perfect timing James, I have been using shop-Vac for years and I am thinking of upgrading to a single-stage because I just bought a new table saw and the Shop-Vac just doesn't cut it. I have a very small shop in my garage and the tips that you have just given me will really help me make an educated decision. Thanks as always your videos Rock!!!
After watching this video I got an idea. You have your dust collector and you also have your dust extractor like these for small tools as you know large system is not that great for hand tool dust collecting applications. So, I bought a Kirby vacuum cleaner motor head which has an impeller that is separated from the motor, which has a separate assembly to get cooled. The impeller sucks the dust and within few inches exhausts it to a bag via 3 inch pipe. I’ve removed the bag and connected the three inch hose to a 4 inch hose to my large shop three stage dust extractor with cyclonic action. This way I have one place for all the dust from the small and large tools, none of the filter expense of expensive small systems like festool and other, takes very little space and it’s in-line install setup for under 100 bucks. Awesome video as always very informative. Thank you.
One of the best vids in quite some time. Very valuable. Very clear. I recently made the jump to a DE from a shopvac set up myself and had to do a TON of research over a week to get about 1/2 of the information here. My shop is tiny (1/4 of a two car garage), so fortunately I had a simple job to do. Single stage DE, connected to a chip separator with a remote control ON/OFF. 10' of flex hose reaches everywhere in my tiny space, and I only connect to one tool or attachment at a time, so no need for ductwork. I noticed an immediate difference - far less uncaptured dust on every tool. For a couple tools, I will reduce down to 2-1/2, but I do this with rigid adapters at the tool so it expands to 4" right away, and with the remote control, the DE is only running when I'm using the tool, never more than a minute or so at a time. It still does a bit better than the shop vac.
Excellent video, extremely well-presented with all the important tips anyone thinking about building a system would need :-) One niggle though: You repeated a common misconception about dust collectors, namely that running them with insufficient air flow will cause them to overheat. The opposite is actually true: When an impeller system is running with no airflow, the motor is actually under the *least* load. This is counterintuitive until you think about it in terms of what work it is that the motor is doing, namely moving air. The more it’s moving per unit time, the more power it’s consuming; the less air the less power. It’s important to note though, that most shop vacuums *will* overheat if you restrict airflow. This is because inexpensive models use the vacuum’s exhaust to cool the motor. When you block the airflow, the motor does less work, the same as in a big system, but the motor can’t get any cooling air, so it overheats. High-end shop vacs use a separate air stream to cool the motor, so there’s no problem if their intake is blocked. (My Fein Turbo II is built that way, and I assume other high-end brands like Festool are designed the same.) Oh - another little tip: Shop vac filters are generally pretty bad, in that they don’t filter very finely. Gore-Tex makes a filter that matches Craftsman “red band” filters, which fit not only Craftsman vacs but many others besides. I don’t think they’re true HEPA filters, but they filter much more fine,y than the stock paper ones. They’re expensive but last a very long time if you brush them off well whenever you empty your vac. You can easily find these on Amazon and elsewhere, just be sure to check their dimensions against the filters your vac uses. Once again, a fantastic piece; any woodworker looking at dust collection should see it!
This video is great because most dust collection videos just talk about "upgrading" from a shop vac to a single stage collector and then "upgrading" further. This is the first video that explained that there is a good use for a shop vac, even if you have an HVLP system. You don't get rid of your shop vac, you just add another tool - and who doesn't like more tools?
I am so happy that you mentioned Bill Pence, he is the titan among mortals when it comes to dust collection. His encyclopedic guide to dust collection was maybe the first thing I ever found on the internet that made cable worth paying for.
Another great video. I am getting back in to wood working now that the kids are grown and out of the house. Thanks for all the insight. Making and figuring out your mistakes is by far the best (albeit painful at times) education!
Like everything you produce, it’s an excellent and informative video. I have a harbor freight dust collector with a canister filter (that you recommended in a previous video) with a garbage can separator. I’ve been using too much 4” flex hose. I’ve been reducing it to a 2-1/2” shop vac hose to suck up the dust from my table saw. Now I know why it hasn’t been working well. Thanks so much for all of your excellent videos. I’ll watch this more than once.
I liked everything about your video except the part about starving the air flow thus causing the motor to overheat. As a retired HVAC tech, I've found that starving the air flow results in a lower load on the motor with a corresponding reduction in amp draw. Granted that the efficiency of dust collection suffers, but it doesn't cause the motor to overheat.
I recently invested in a dust collector (single stage) when I bought a 15" planer. I made the mistake of including my table saw with it's 2 1/2" port in the run. Despite using just 6 feet of flex hose, a ton of dust accumulated on the floor instead of in the bag. I was majorly disappointed and switched my table saw back to the shop vac. Thanks for validating my findings. :)
A bunch of good tips. At approx. 6:00 you said a duct that is too large will cause resistance. That is not true but what it does do is decrease the velocity. A minimum velocity (3500-4000 FPM) is required to keep the dust/shavings suspended; otherwise they will collect on the bottom and eventually cause an obstruction. You should also note that when using PVC duct (or most any plastic), you should run a ground wire inside. The chips flowing past a plastic surface will create static electricity which in turn can create a spark. Dust can actually be explosive under the right conditions so you wouldn't want to encourage that.
All true! I came looking for someone that knew and commented this info. Also using shop vacs can be dangerous because the motors can spark acting as an ignition source. Static dissipative flex hoses are also a good idea for the same reason as the PVC pipe. Hope your comment gets more attention.
Thank you for sharing. I am currently looking to address my shop dust collection issue (been putting it off way to long) and really appreciate the video so I can do it right the first time and not run into headaches in the long run.
Very helpful video. I am putting together my shop now and this information helped me realize my dust collection ideas would have taken me in the wrong direction. Essentially you helped me realize that I would have wasted money. I now know I should keep the system much simpler than I thought. Thank you.
I solved the filter problem by venting my system directly outside. I live in the country and my nearest neighbor is a 1/4 mile away so no danger to others.
Great idea! I thought about doing that as well, but my neighbor is about 15 feet away! But I guess one could build a shed attached to the shop which houses a serious dust collector.
I am just getting into my wood working journey in earnest. Put up a shingle and everything. Thanks so much for your videos James, I am learning a lot! Especially on safety. Knock on wood. Due to a brief foray into contracting, I have 4 shop vacs. Thinking about how to make it all work in a garage. That I do park inside at times. My work bench ( which I plan to build better) folds up on hinges and all stores nearly on one side of my table saw. I am trying to connect dust collection with them to my tools. The shop vacs do well hooked up to sander and mitre saws . . . the upside traffic cone under my table saw hooked to shop vac ( which I wired to start with my table saw switch) is not working as well. I have a traffic cone overflowing with saw dust with very little getting to the shop vac. This video helped me understand why. I am planning on revising that plan somehow. Need to figure out a fine dust solution other than keeping the garage door open and annoying the neighbours. One question: Does the height of the vacuum system in relation to the tools make a difference. For example if you were in a 3 storey building and your machines were on the second storey were would you direct your system to? Up, down or verticle? Or does it not matter?
@@StumpyNubs Well for me, I think I want most of the dust going down, which gravity helps with. My thinking is get the dust as soon as possible after it is creted. Perhaps by means of two collection points. Get it in a contained cyclone quickly ideally through as much pc piping as possible with no abrupt angles. Whatever air comes out of the cyclone is run through at least one filter (Hepa), then exhausted outside. Then have a some sort of other air filtering device near the work filtering whatever makes it's way into the the room. Additionally some overall room air handling device like our HVAC systems could be employed. I do have an old electrostatic air filtration device I could use for that perhaps. Would need regular cleaning with a soap free dishwasher run. Any errors in my thinking?
Yeah I honestly I still do that. Every tool can't be hooked up to a dust collector or I just need to make one cut so my shop still has dust everywhere. I think the dust avoidance system is second best to collecting it. A good squirrel cage fan blowing away the dust while you work is much more affordable and convenient .
Thanks for the more detailed explanation. I put a 4" ducted soil pipe system in which works quite well, I was going to purchase a a better cloth filter bag but now after seeing this I am going for the cannister filter. Your explanation of not losing so much of the airflow using one of these has saved me the pain of a lot of trial and error, not to mention the money saved. So its a thumbs up from me.
Collecting "Dust" as opposed to "Chips" is a quite different thing. A relatively slow air flow does a good job at collecting dust because the particles are small and they are quickly slowed to where they are floating in air. Chips, on the other hand, have a lot more mass to surface area and will travel much farther and escape many dust collection systems. But these are usually few and are easily collected by other means. It is the dust that I want to get rid of because it settles on everything given enough time.
EXCELLENT video that touches on pretty much everything I need to consider for my system. A slight but important correction concerns air velocity though ducts. Ducting that is too large does not clog due to "increased resistance"--it actually reduces air flow resistance. However, its larger diameter reduces air SPEED through the pipe which allows heavier particles to drop out of the air stream easier, and reduces the "push" on any particles being evacuated along the pipe.
That guy is smart, sometimes too smart and yet, at the same time, not so smart. His approach from the last that I've seen, is more of a bit of laziness on his part.
Great information. Instead of using a pleated filter, could you just vent the dust/ air outside. This will increase the air flow. I have a Grizzly 220volt system in a 600sq ft shop. I turn wood bowls, there is alot of sanding. Any pros or cons is appreciated. Keep helping us.
I spent over 30 yrs in the mobile industrial dry vacuum (Air moving) service sector. What you described are known problems in my field. You would think that someone who operates a $400K machine would understand these principles. They are the same whether you are designing a permanent system or a temporary field erected one. Bravo for your video. PS: I have a very small 8X12 shop that I installed a properly sized shop vac powered system. I used 2" rubber wyes that are ment for cast iron plumbing, nice gradual sweeping entries and PVC conduit very large swept elbows. I also used a HD sourced Dustoper dust/debris separator. I only use it on a very few tools, router table and small bandsaw. If I had a larger shop I would definitely install a lot larger system. Thanks again for your video. PS, PS: you were wrong on one point. HVAC piping can be installed where you don't have a case of running against the stream, just turn it around. The male end should be pointing at the female. I know 😜😜
I see your point. However If you really search Wyes are made for air exchanger systems for local collection of the air, such as isolation rooms in hospitals that need negative air pressure (1-2 Hg).
Two things: Install your filter and motor just outside your shop in a protected area; eliminate the fine particle passing through the filter bag into the shop. DON'T grind metal on sanders in a wood shop, sparks will cause a smoldering fire.
Throwing metal sparks into a pile of sawdust is indeed a bad idea, but it should be noted that piles of metal dust (from grinding) can also be ignited, even without wood dust present. Also, I think lung protection maybe didn't get quite enough attention in this video. Regardless of whatever dust/smoke collection system you may have in your shop, it's not going to get everything coming off of a machine. A half-mask respirator with P100 filter cartridges is a must-have for any woodworking, metalworking, or welding.
My recall is that he covers it in the video when they installed the PVC ducting when they moved into the post office. If memory serves he takes the stance that it's not needed (the density of chips/dust isn't high enough for sparks to actually ignite it). However, I think he then reasons that it's easy to add by using a copper wire linking occasional screws through the duct.
Haha, man! This video is like a review of my fluid-dynamics class in college. Everything here is a very solid real-world demonstration of closed-channel fluid dynamics. And yes, air is a "fluid". "Surface roughness", or how "smooth" the pipe is, has a huge impact on how stuff flows through pipes. Joints all also have different flow-sapping coefficients associated with them. It's been a few years and I haven't had the opportunity to review this material since, but man oh man, listen to what he's saying, folks.
Hey buddy one of these days I'm gonna pump the air outside through a vent the way you did it. Your video was a game changer for me. I don't have space for a big filter.
I like the channel name. I went to school with a guy we called 7/8ths. He'd lost the end of his left middle in a "table saw incident". He would also use that finger to flip you off to prove how much he didn't care to send the very best.
I disconnect my 4 inch hose from my table and attach it to my router table which is on wheels so I use the same amount of hose for both, I use my shop vac on my table top band saw but I wsa going to do a whole system until I saw this video which smartened me up 100 %. Great video, even my wife liked it...
I've been eyeballing and trying to figure out a dust collection system for over a year now and this is been the best video out there to help me figure out what I need for my shop thanks a lot
Hey James, You should know I've learned a number of useful things from you and your videos and appreciate the example you represent to the woodworking community. Believing you're a reasonable guy I do hope, since you've snipped a screenshot from my dust collection system: th-cam.com/video/qjI5l4nF9AM/w-d-xo.html to post in your video as an example of what NOT to do in some, maybe even most, ductwork systems, that you'll do me the courtesy of explaining to your viewers the context of my system compared to yours. Regardless of your response to my hopeful comment I'm not going to point out things from your shop and/or workflow to my audience that are woefully lacking from my frame of reference... that would be both cowardly and disrespectful. Best regards, Matt Jackson Next Level Carpentry on TH-cam
Hi, Matt. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not mean the "cowardly and disrespectful" portion of your comment since it GREATLY escalates what would otherwise be a simple misunderstanding of intent. I chose that image from Google not really knowing who you were. It wasn't personal at all. I needed a photo of a long piece of flex hose in a shop setting, and I found yours a little humorous. It was an important point that I was making, as I am sure you will agree. However, I admit that the image I chose lacks context, and I regret that. I own the same Harvey dust processor that you have and it produces an abundance of airflow for the size shop you own, giving you the luxury of using a lot more flex hose than most other woodworkers should use. I said as much while defending you in response to the comment I received about it below. Given that I neglected to provide context in the video I will pin to the top of the comments a statement about it. Because, as you said in the first half of your comment, I am indeed a "reasonable guy". Have a nice day, Matt :)
(This comment is now pinned to the top of the comments section, directly below the video.) IMPORTANT: In the video I show an image of a workshop with an excessively long length of flex hose. I found the image on Google and thought it was a humorous example of a big piece of hose. I neglected to provide context for the image. The gentleman in the photo was attaching that hose to a much more powerful system than is found in most small workshops. He could afford to lose some airflow from the long flex hose, and it works well for him. By not providing that context I made it appear that HE was making a mistake rather than my intended point, which is that most OTHER folks should not do that with their single-stage systems. I am sorry I didn't make that clear, which is why I have removed the image from the video thumbnail and I am pinning this comment to the top so everyone can see it.
Great video! Whenever I think about pressure I remember this formula. PV = nRT. where Pressure * Volume = moles of gas * idea gas constant * temperature. For a dust collection the nRT is a constant, so that leaves us with P = 1 / V. This just means if the volume of air doubles, the pressure drops by half. What does this have to do with dust collection? Well going back to your comment about gates being close to the split, that helps reduce the total amount of volume in the ducting therefore keeping a higher pressure. Shorter ducting means less volume and more pressure. One thing this formula does not consider is the resistance of the ducting. You want a big enough diameter to make the resistance a small factor. Hence the typical 4-6" range of ducting sizes. On a side note this same formula can be used on tires but with the Temperature being the thing that changes. PV = nR * Temperature. If the temperature drops and your tire pressure stays the same, you can see that the volume must drop proportionally. Temperature is in Kelvin so a 10K degree drop is 3.7% reduction in volume (10 / 273 ) or a loss of ~1.3 PSI on a 35 PSI filled tire.
Thank you, l was so clueless about dust collection. I got using shop Vacs on my orbital sander and mitre saw right. Now l know how to correct my dust collector. Very grateful.
Excellent video. It helped make sense of a number of issues I have encountered trying, unsucessfully, to manage dust in my small DIY workshop. Thank you.
Excellent video, you are so well spoken and able to keep up the monologue without irritating edits. My only comment is that you almost completely discount the use of (snap lock) HVAC steel duct in favor of PVC. Many of us use it and have found it an economical yet effective alternate to PVC or spiral pipe. 10 years and yet to find a clog.
The video was very instructive. Any dust collection system needs to not only work but be cost-effective. My hobby wood shop is in a 2400 sf metal building with a 20' high metal roof with sky-lights, all un-insulated. It's a barn/giant garage. It would take an enormously large system to get even 25% of the dust. More than the cost of installation (and modification as tools are added or moved), there are the significant costs for maintenance and electricity. Where the dust comes off the various tools is not always the same - it depends on what I'm doing with them. Even putting vacuum cleaners on them requires that I have enough power for both the tools and the vacuum cleaner to run off of the same power line. I would be mostly sucking up the air around the tools and not from the tools. These vacuum hoses can also interfere with tool usage. For a centralized system, I would have to run vacuum tubing along metal walls and over 14' doors with the added inconvenience of opening and closing blast gates. And then there's the noise factor -- my hearing is bad enough as it is! Currently, I only use 2 tools that actually require vacuum attachments and those are my thickness planer and my drum sander and I have dedicated vacuum cleaners for them. But their filters usually clog up before their canisters are even 25% full. Without air conditioning, I need to use fans and open the bay doors to keep the temperature inside bearable in the Houston summers. So, air filters would be filtering outside air more than inside. Using a vacuum cleaner, I just clean up around the various work benches and tools when needed. I don't see any other practical and affordable dust collection system for my situation.
My new shop is going up next week 1500SqFt I stumbled across your channel and Thank You. I have been through all of the dust collection mistakes in previous shops. I am leaning toward single stage on wheels moving tool to tool then adding a grizzly overhead filter.
Hay @Stumpy Nubs show some respect for Next Level Carpentry he's a good guy and has contributed a lot the wood working community and the TH-cam creator community. I like is instructional technique his calm demeaner and good sense of humor. I do like this video of yours as it is very factual and packed with GREAT advice, Thank-you.
I was struggling the past few days to make dust collection for an old school combo machine I got recently because I couldn't find 2 1/2" flexible hose to suck dust from the jointer and planer. this was very informative, thank you.
Great video, I have a small garage shop, I'm using small 1HP Harbor freight dust collectors, 1 for my miter saw hood and 1 for my table saw each with less than 3 feet of flex hose & a shop vac for the router table. I'd love a big set up but this works for now !
This was really helpful. I will get a shopvac and use it for now since I only use one machine at a time anyway. Also, all of my equipment is folded away when not in use since my 3-car garage always has my two cars parked in it (my car is in the one-car stall, and my wife drives into the center of the two-car stall). Basically, everything is put away when not in use. Table saw, mitre table, and compound mitre saw are my main tools, but I have lots of hand tools that have ports (circular saw, sabre saw, sander, etc.). I think the shopvac is the way to go. Thanks for preventing me from wasting money!
That Delta your showing is what I brought used. It worked great for a while but recently the capacitor blue. Trying to find a new one has been a nightmare. When I get it repaired I will be taken your advice while I set up my shop. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Stumpy, great information clearly enunciated. I have reverse engineered ( well done things in an obverse way) my dust extraction. I have put all smaller machines (thicknesser, jointer etc) on trolleys so they can be moved to the center of the room where they can connect directly to my single phase dust extractor unit, wheel them out when needed, then put them away for cleanup. I had not properly considered flow rate and power, where collection of chips and dust is directly adjacent to the source, so have now bought a ShopVac to get that high power high speed flow from router etc. Love your channel, Geoff
I have a very small shop (8x26). I use a shop vac with a seperator and the EXHAUST SIDE PIPED TO THE OUTSIDE. I also have a 2'x2' fan with a filter behind it. Plus, I have a 1'x2' window fan permanently mounted in an exterior wall (can close it on cold days) My air quality monitor tells me that this approach is working. In worst case scenarios (cutting mdf), I open my door to allow the fan to move the air outside quicker. If I had a larger shop, the advice in this video would be very useful. Maybe someday! Thanks James.
Stumpy, your presentation is clear, concise, and well supported by your visual aids and explanations. Thank you for sharing your hard-won wisdom. I have watched about a dozen videos so far on dust collection systems and yours was by far the most objective and comprehensive. Based on what I have gleaned from your video I will be using a shop vac with a cyclone separator and 2.5" hoses for all my small power tools. For all the large power tools I will use a single-stage vortex dust collector, with rigid 4" PVC pipe, minimal bends, clean-outs at the end of every straight run, limited 4" flex tubing, and blast gates at the Y-fittings off the main line rigid pipe. I haven't decided on what HEPA system yet. Again, thank you! I was seeing plenty of flex pipe product online and not a lot about the pros and cons. I am certain you have already saved me a lot of grieve and wasted money.
Excellent summary of the issues and the value of KISS. I have the Harbor Freight unit with the pleated filter you recommended earlier. Ran 4" flex hose manifold. No good. Ran separator. Dropped to much flow. I now use 4" pvc manifolds to feed each half of shop with short 4" flex connections with one blast gate each side. One machine at a time for the most part. I may switch out from blast gates to pluggable 4" ports. For table saw I go direct. Summary: Your dust collector must both suck and blow well with minimal interference.
Thanks Again for sharing your journey. The knowledge you have gathered and shared from you experiences will save a great many people many years, dollars, frustration, and disappointment. Very well Done !
Thanks for good explanation about dust collecting and very good explaining about what is not good to invest on. I have learned a lot from you, and you have saved me a lots of time, money and thinking about it. I know that your videos are for professional people and they know whatever tool or system that you mention, but for a beginer like me a photo or a drawing picture help a lot to understand what tool you talk about, what system is not good with a red cross over, or what is ok with a green ok
IMPORTANT: In the video I show an image of a workshop with an excessively long length of flex hose. I found the image on Google and thought it was a humorous example of a big piece of hose. I neglected to provide context for the image. The gentleman in the photo was attaching that hose to a much more powerful system than is found in most small workshops. He could afford to lose some airflow from the long flex hose, and it works well for him. By not providing that context I made it appear that HE was making a mistake rather than my intended point, which is that most OTHER folks should not do that with their single-stage systems. I am sorry I didn't make that clear, which is why I have removed the image from the video thumbnail and I am pinning this comment to the top so everyone can see it.
What was the name of the science website you mentioned at the end? I couldn't quite hear it.
@@oblio9147 billpentz.com
@@StumpyNubs Thanks! I'm putting together a small shop with dust collection next week so very timely episode.
Code is only for minor products. Not the for real deal. Was hoping to get a CV1800 :(
I just tried it. It took $88 off.
The most-effective dust collector I have is my NordicTrack.
I have a treadmill that makes an excellent coat rack.
Undoubtedly the best comment ever.
😂😂😂 You win the internet today! 👍🏼
That is very funny!
Haha, brilliant!
I always turn to your videos to sanity check anything else I watch. No b/s, no over-the-top distracting behaviour, even your promo material is handled professionally. Thank you for being so much help to a budding woodworker.
If you have a limited budget, and have time to wait for the right deal, my experience might help. I noticed an ad on Craigslist for a shop closing, and quite a few tools for sale. Great selection, but overpriced. The 10 year old workshop was a custom 1 man shop, business died, and he was going back to working as a trade school woodworking teacher. He had a large dust collection system, and I enquired about that, he said, "it would take a week to disassemble, I'll just leave it in place when I move out". I offered $200 for everything, and promised to have it out in a week. I ended up with a 4 bag 5 Hp system, with a large cyclone, and more than enough metal piping to complete my whole 1000 sq ft woodshop. So, enter : "closing shop" or similar into CL, and maybe you will find a great deal like I did.
You are a natural narrator! I didn't notice a single "uh" or "um" and your flow of information was smooth as a planed plank of pine, not to mention mighty handy to have in my brain pan! Well done and I've subscribed and punched the like button too!
I agree. These videos are well articulated, with intelligent and insightful comments/ideas. As I said before, my goal is to watch them all.
Nice tip on the fire hazards of sweeping up nails hitting the impeller. Thank you for taking the time to make this video, it will save me lots of time and money.
This is one of the best guides to shop dust collection. In my nearly 50 years of furniture making, I have made most of the mistakes with my systems.If only I could have had this guidance many years ago!
I now have mostly short runs, blast gates on all machinery, a single stage collector, and a cyclone. I hardly have any flexible ductwork. When I built my current house, I laid 4” pvc pipe in trenches before the basement slab was poured, coming up at each (planned) piece of equipment. It took a bit of planning and was a leap of faith, but the system has worked well over the last 28 years.
Thanks for your great presentation.
As always you have a way of boiling it down to the essentials in such a clear and concise way. Love your way of teaching!
Great video. Teaching people your previous mistakes best way to pay it forward.
This should be an example for all TH-cam to follow imho; straight forward, easy to understand, well organized and informative! Well done, I'll be back.
Great video with a lot of information packed into it. I was very glad that you made the statement that assuming you set your expectations properly, a single stage system may be fine for a small shop woodworker. With all due respect to Bill Pentz, the ability to install a semi-industrial 5HP+ cyclone system with 8" ducts and custom hoods on all machines is simply far beyond the reach of average weekend woodworker. While it would be absolutely necessary for someone exposed on a daily basis, for someone who might make a half a dozen cuts on a table saw every other week, such a setup is simply impractical. Too many internet dust collection pundits insist that your are just wasting your time unless you are going all the way to the extreme, leaving many to give up in frustration and go for nothing.
Amen true that
I wish I'd just watched your video first, it's more comprehensive than the 15 or so videos I've previously spent time watching on TH-cam all combined. New Subscriber here.
I am just becoming a fan of your instructional and review videos. They are the best in terms of detail and underlying rationale. You are also a naturally good presenter, using clear language, concise points, linear-logical progression. You are a very good teacher. The reliance that you have on your own experiences (both good and bad results) is a perfect exclamation mark to the points being made.
You are so right. I’ve made every single mistake you talked about. Wish I would have found your channel about 15 years ago.
After reviewing the video, I started looking through my dust collection system to determine any leaks that could be occurring on 6 blast gates... It hadn't dawned on me that the metal gates were installed the wrong way (tightner needing to be on the back side facing the intake hose to secure the seal when gate is closed). Wow.. closely inspecting the blast gates, I could see the small thin spacing between the closed gate and the intake. Reinstalled and did see significant improvement with the air-flow coming through now .. thanks Stub
You're right Stumpy, in my small basement shop, I use a Harbor Freight single stage dust collector (originally used with its bag filter) and got AMAZING improvement after I replaced the bag with a Wynn Environmental cannister. I also used a Thein baffle that I made from their website.
So the dirty air hits my Thein baffle first, then the Wynn filter, then the overflow falls into a gamma lid pail. My overflow pail sees next to nothing. I use the system a couple times a week. The huge pressure loss from the Wynn filter must be just what the Thein baffle needs to perform as well or better than my 7.5 hp commercial Delta cyclone system at the shop.
Great video, thanks.
Once again, you've come up with a ton of valuable info without wasting time on useless info. You really have a way of communicating great ideas!
A great post. After a lot of trial and error I have the Oneida after market black cyclone, a 2HP collector with filter bags top and bottom in a closet venting outside and 6” hose on the top of the cyclone and 1 shrinking 5” hose to whatever machine I am using. Also a box air filter hanging from the ceiling. This is finally doing the trick.
I went back today and re-worked my dust collector system today and moved the gates near the main feeds and the air flow really changed for the better. Great tip!
You are spot on about using the right type of steel pipe and joints for dust collection systems. I worked in a very nice woodworking shop that had a large dust collection system. Problem was the airflow was so low. Since I was a metal fabricator as well as a woodworker I examined the duct work. As you observed, the seams leaked like a sieve. So, I took on the job of sealing every joint with high quality heat activated tape. It took me several days to do it. Afterwards it was like night and day. It became so powerful the floor sweeps would pull the sawdust and small pieces vertically through a six inch pipe 12 feet high! The shop stayed so much cleaner after that. Good video as usual.
As an operator of multiple large industrial dust collections systems I would say this is an excellent collection of wisdom. We have a strict policy against “floor sweeps”, they are bad and very unsafe for large systems. If you need a floor sweep your system is not designed right. The only advice I would add is to look at the collection right at the source, are you trying to catch the dust or capture as it fly’s by the opening. Many machines are not designed well for efficient dust capture at the source. Thanks for the video.
This is true of older machines which although work efficiently preparing wood do not have any respect for ones lungs. So buyer beware.
I thought sweeps were a great idea. I'll stick to making a pile of sawdust on the floor and picking it up with the shop vac.
@Mike Dillon. I don’t have “working knowledge”, but rather “casual knowledge”. From from my work experience, shouldn’t all ductwork of this type and use, also be of a grounding type ductwork to prevent electro static discharge?
@@chriscarter7182 I think Stumpy has a good video on this topic.
@@charlieodom9107 Thanks for the answer. I retired from Boeing almost 6 years ago. We made titanium structures for the aircraft. In the production lines we developed, where ever titanium chips or dust were collected by vacuum, the portable vacuums were required to be explosion proof. One bench mechanic was using a small hand held pneumatic vacuum and it exploded in his hand. He wasn’t injured, just unpleasantly surprised. The root cause was determined to be static discharge in the canvas collection bag. We had a large central vacuum system in the building but the production lines we developed used portable shop vac’s and they were required to be explosion proof after that incident.
I bought 2 of the Harbor Freight dust collectors about 7 years ago, I have large PVC pipes with some Y's and 90's, but I have to say these are the best machines I've ever bought from them, I bought some gates to go along with them, but when I ran out of gates and they didn't have any in stock at the time, I built my own out of wood. I haven't had a problem with these ever, I've made sure to seal all the joints tightly and YES I have also added grounding wire, very important I think. I do use vac's for smaller tools, just makes sense to me. great video by the way, as usual very instructional.
Matthias Wandel recently posted a number of dust collection related videos, including one with hard numbers comparing a shop vac and a homemade induction motor impeller, and different sizes of hose. A good companion video to this one
He has also gone the route of building dedicated dust/chip solutions for many of his tools. Local =short distance and dedicated = more tailored air flow or pressure for each tool. Also gives redundancy in the room.
Personally I think he just likes building things. :-)
@@frederickwood9116take for example the common dewalt 13 inch planer. The thing has a chip blower built right in - all you need to do is duct it to a trashcan and put a canister filter on to exhaust it.
Found this video and it solved my CNC dust collection problem. I was reducing 4" to 2.5" and it was not working. Your point of air volume, not pressure solved my problem. I cut a 4" hole in my CNC enclose so it could draw full air. Then put the 2.5" hose inside of the 4". The CNC has good collection and the 4" hose is trapping find dust in the enclose. Thank you Stumpy
Been researching dust collection systems for a while now. This is by far the best advice I have seen when it comes to dust collection. Thanks, you’ve earned my subscription to your channel.
After Bill Pentz (sorry 😔, no harm intended) I consider your explanations to be the most comprehensive ones out there on the subjects you discuss. You are absolutely thorough and all inclusive in every thing you discuss.
I have read literally every thing Mr. Pentz wrote plus and a lot more on the topic of dust collection and can only agree with everything you said in this video (and every other ones of your videos I watched).
Thank you for the high professional level of your productions.
Paul
I got a single stage Jet and didn't like the expense of the cartridge filters not to mention what it might take to clean them. I ended up attaching a round piece of plywood (routed underneath with a round nose bit for a tighter fit) to the top the the collector using the existing spring clips to hold it down that came with the machine. I made a hole in the top to accommodate the 4" PVC that comes out of the top and with an elbow attaches to a dryer vent about 1" away on the wall. The large chips fall in to the bag while the fine dust goes outside of my shop via a dryer vent.
I researched dust collection in depth when I set up my dust collection "system" 25 years ago. After looking at everything including the various costs of all of the options, I went with my Craftsman shop vac with a Cleanstream Gortex .5 micron filter and 2.5" flex hose. I ran a hose from each machine that I connect directly to my shop vac when in use, keeping the lengths rather short. It works perfectly even on my table saw once I blocked off all of the gaps around the saw. It absolutely devours the chips from my planer and jointer as well. I'm not a professional woodworker by any means but for most of us weekend warriors, this is going to be your best deal and do a great job without breaking the bank or taking up valuable shop real estate.
what model shop vac did you go with?
@@macklevine8369 I bought it in the mid 1990's while I was building our house. It's a Craftsman 6hp that also converts into a leaf blower. It still runs like a champ and every few years I take a damp cloth with a touch of dish soap and wipe the entire thing down inside and out after blowing out the motor housing with compressed air and it looks like brand new again. I'm pretty sure they don't make them like this anymore.
@@tomj528 That vacuum sounds like a beast. 6HP is pretty wild. Thanks for reminding me to blast all the crap out of my motor housing on mine
This is gold, I was just getting ready to try and figure out what I wanted to do for my first ever dust collection system
ditto
I’m a beginning woodworker, after completing a project I realized that I needed some kind of dust collection system in my garage workshop. I started designing a system around my shopvac. Thank you for this posting. I’m now re-thinking dust collection and my shop layout.
Thank you for this video, you've just saved me a lot of money and time. I'll stick with my shopvac for the time being rather than buying all the pipes and fittings and a dust collector as I was about to do.
Thanks for this. I "inherited" my school shop about 4 years ago when our previous shop teacher retired and it has always had dust issues in the 16 years I've been working at the school, including failed filtration that had allowed everything from dust to wood chips bypassing the filtration on one collector. Shop was built sometime in the late '60's early '70's and a second collection system added (with equipment expansions) in the late '70's. You've given me a LOT to look at and bring up to speed. Thank you, again, for this.
I'm a silversmith, and you have provided outstanding information for this type of workshop. Many thanks!
This is actually the best overview of shop Vacuums, chip separators, Cyclones vacuums that I’ve ever seen. And great info on the types of tubing that can be used. I even talked to fire departments that didn’t catch the fact I do more welding than woodworking. I knew I would need separate systems. Good job on the narration.
Great Video. After dragging 4 inch hose on the floor for 25 years, I finally put in a 25 foot straight run of 4 inch PVC overhead with minimal connections to tools. I wish i had found this video first, but I actually did well with minimal bends and blast gates. thanks!
As an Architectural Technologist, I have a fair understanding of air flow and resistance from a time when we thought warm air heating was good idea.
Nevertheless, you have taught me stuff I did not know and made me more aware of the stuff I should know. It just goes to show; "You are never to old to learn".
Thanks, Stumpy.
Thank you very much! I have been using a shop vac for my big belt sander as that is all I had. I have been wanting to upgrade my dust collection since I started using it. This is way more information than I have found on any other channel.
Let me be the first to say this was a "sucky" video with lots of useful tips. I'm heading out to my shop and shorten a couple of runs and tape up some leaky seams.
I am in the stages of planning a workshop, I have observed several setups in various shops. In particular, a well known woodworking store has their set up with many ‘don’ts’ you described.
Another , I found at an estate sale, was set up in all the right ways. Massive Oneida system using metal duct designed for this purpose, limited flex hose, proper use of gates, the works.
I wanted to have the whole shop airlifted to my property as is..😜. I took lots of pictures.
One thing you did not touch on, the air cleaner.
When is one needed and its overall purpose.
Thank you again for this video. I will be doing more research using the link you provided.
I can picture myself making every single one of these mistakes. Thanks for the tip stumpy
But those are not mistakes? Not everyone can or wants to put 4k into a dust collection system amd have the best of everything.
I don't do woodwork but TH-cam decided to suggest your video to me. I was not disappointed! Awesome tips very well explained and logical. Thanks for the video
Perfect timing James, I have been using shop-Vac for years and I am thinking of upgrading to a single-stage because I just bought a new table saw and the Shop-Vac just doesn't cut it. I have a very small shop in my garage and the tips that you have just given me will really help me make an educated decision. Thanks as always your videos Rock!!!
After watching this video I got an idea. You have your dust collector and you also have your dust extractor like these for small tools as you know large system is not that great for hand tool dust collecting applications. So, I bought a Kirby vacuum cleaner motor head which has an impeller that is separated from the motor, which has a separate assembly to get cooled. The impeller sucks the dust and within few inches exhausts it to a bag via 3 inch pipe. I’ve removed the bag and connected the three inch hose to a 4 inch hose to my large shop three stage dust extractor with cyclonic action. This way I have one place for all the dust from the small and large tools, none of the filter expense of expensive small systems like festool and other, takes very little space and it’s in-line install setup for under 100 bucks. Awesome video as always very informative. Thank you.
I can't thank you enough for this. I finally get it! You rock James!
One of the best vids in quite some time. Very valuable. Very clear. I recently made the jump to a DE from a shopvac set up myself and had to do a TON of research over a week to get about 1/2 of the information here. My shop is tiny (1/4 of a two car garage), so fortunately I had a simple job to do. Single stage DE, connected to a chip separator with a remote control ON/OFF. 10' of flex hose reaches everywhere in my tiny space, and I only connect to one tool or attachment at a time, so no need for ductwork. I noticed an immediate difference - far less uncaptured dust on every tool. For a couple tools, I will reduce down to 2-1/2, but I do this with rigid adapters at the tool so it expands to 4" right away, and with the remote control, the DE is only running when I'm using the tool, never more than a minute or so at a time. It still does a bit better than the shop vac.
Excellent video, extremely well-presented with all the important tips anyone thinking about building a system would need :-)
One niggle though: You repeated a common misconception about dust collectors, namely that running them with insufficient air flow will cause them to overheat. The opposite is actually true: When an impeller system is running with no airflow, the motor is actually under the *least* load. This is counterintuitive until you think about it in terms of what work it is that the motor is doing, namely moving air. The more it’s moving per unit time, the more power it’s consuming; the less air the less power.
It’s important to note though, that most shop vacuums *will* overheat if you restrict airflow. This is because inexpensive models use the vacuum’s exhaust to cool the motor. When you block the airflow, the motor does less work, the same as in a big system, but the motor can’t get any cooling air, so it overheats.
High-end shop vacs use a separate air stream to cool the motor, so there’s no problem if their intake is blocked. (My Fein Turbo II is built that way, and I assume other high-end brands like Festool are designed the same.)
Oh - another little tip: Shop vac filters are generally pretty bad, in that they don’t filter very finely. Gore-Tex makes a filter that matches Craftsman “red band” filters, which fit not only Craftsman vacs but many others besides. I don’t think they’re true HEPA filters, but they filter much more fine,y than the stock paper ones. They’re expensive but last a very long time if you brush them off well whenever you empty your vac. You can easily find these on Amazon and elsewhere, just be sure to check their dimensions against the filters your vac uses.
Once again, a fantastic piece; any woodworker looking at dust collection should see it!
This video is great because most dust collection videos just talk about "upgrading" from a shop vac to a single stage collector and then "upgrading" further. This is the first video that explained that there is a good use for a shop vac, even if you have an HVLP system. You don't get rid of your shop vac, you just add another tool - and who doesn't like more tools?
I am so happy that you mentioned Bill Pence, he is the titan among mortals when it comes to dust collection. His encyclopedic guide to dust collection was maybe the first thing I ever found on the internet that made cable worth paying for.
80% of my dust collection system is my broom. Love to upgrade some day.
My other 20 is a leaf blower
Here I was thinking my 2.5 gallon shop vac was so awesome. Thanks so much for putting this video together, super helpful!
Another great video. I am getting back in to wood working now that the kids are grown and out of the house. Thanks for all the insight. Making and figuring out your mistakes is by far the best (albeit painful at times) education!
Like everything you produce, it’s an excellent and informative video. I have a harbor freight dust collector with a canister filter (that you recommended in a previous video) with a garbage can separator. I’ve been using too much 4” flex hose. I’ve been reducing it to a 2-1/2” shop vac hose to suck up the dust from my table saw. Now I know why it hasn’t been working well. Thanks so much for all of your excellent videos. I’ll watch this more than once.
I liked everything about your video except the part about starving the air flow thus causing the motor to overheat. As a retired HVAC tech, I've found that starving the air flow results in a lower load on the motor with a corresponding reduction in amp draw. Granted that the efficiency of dust collection suffers, but it doesn't cause the motor to overheat.
also the air that cools the motor is separate from the dust collection air
I recently invested in a dust collector (single stage) when I bought a 15" planer. I made the mistake of including my table saw with it's 2 1/2" port in the run. Despite using just 6 feet of flex hose, a ton of dust accumulated on the floor instead of in the bag. I was majorly disappointed and switched my table saw back to the shop vac. Thanks for validating my findings. :)
A bunch of good tips. At approx. 6:00 you said a duct that is too large will cause resistance. That is not true but what it does do is decrease the velocity. A minimum velocity (3500-4000 FPM) is required to keep the dust/shavings suspended; otherwise they will collect on the bottom and eventually cause an obstruction. You should also note that when using PVC duct (or most any plastic), you should run a ground wire inside. The chips flowing past a plastic surface will create static electricity which in turn can create a spark. Dust can actually be explosive under the right conditions so you wouldn't want to encourage that.
All true! I came looking for someone that knew and commented this info. Also using shop vacs can be dangerous because the motors can spark acting as an ignition source. Static dissipative flex hoses are also a good idea for the same reason as the PVC pipe. Hope your comment gets more attention.
Thank you for sharing. I am currently looking to address my shop dust collection issue (been putting it off way to long) and really appreciate the video so I can do it right the first time and not run into headaches in the long run.
Once again, Stumpy shares verbal gold. I'll be setting up my first real dust collection soon, so this dropped at the perfect time.
Very helpful video. I am putting together my shop now and this information helped me realize my dust collection ideas would have taken me in the wrong direction. Essentially you helped me realize that I would have wasted money. I now know I should keep the system much simpler than I thought. Thank you.
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Same here!
I shall add my algo ju-ju.
Thank you for sharing your expertise with simplicity and clarity. It is a rare treat!
Great info. Thank you. I would highly encourage you to try/review Oneida’s supercell system to add to your video series. It’s beyond incredible!
Everytime I start a project I check to see if Stumpy has something to say on the topic..
Thanks James you just helped me make a decision
I solved the filter problem by venting my system directly outside. I live in the country and my nearest neighbor is a 1/4 mile away so no danger to others.
Great idea! I thought about doing that as well, but my neighbor is about 15 feet away! But I guess one could build a shed attached to the shop which houses a serious dust collector.
@@TubeHammel Just run a hose to your neighbors system when they aren't home!
@@boydmerriman He doesn't have a shop. I think he doesn't even know how to grip a hammer! ;-) But he is still a nice feller.
I was going to do the same but my concern is is the winter when it’s -20 -30c
I would have to replace that air with outside air
I am just getting into my wood working journey in earnest. Put up a shingle and everything.
Thanks so much for your videos James, I am learning a lot! Especially on safety. Knock on wood.
Due to a brief foray into contracting, I have 4 shop vacs. Thinking about how to make it all work in a garage. That I do park inside at times. My work bench ( which I plan to build better) folds up on hinges and all stores nearly on one side of my table saw. I am trying to connect dust collection with them to my tools.
The shop vacs do well hooked up to sander and mitre saws . . . the upside traffic cone under my table saw hooked to shop vac ( which I wired to start with my table saw switch) is not working as well. I have a traffic cone overflowing with saw dust with very little getting to the shop vac. This video helped me understand why.
I am planning on revising that plan somehow.
Need to figure out a fine dust solution other than keeping the garage door open and annoying the neighbours.
One question: Does the height of the vacuum system in relation to the tools make a difference.
For example if you were in a 3 storey building and your machines were on the second storey were would you direct your system to? Up, down or verticle? Or does it not matter?
Gravity does have an effect on how much power it takes to lift the sawdust. But I think the length of the hose is the greater factor.
@@StumpyNubs Well for me, I think I want most of the dust going down, which gravity helps with.
My thinking is get the dust as soon as possible after it is creted. Perhaps by means of two collection points. Get it in a contained cyclone quickly ideally through as much pc piping as possible with no abrupt angles.
Whatever air comes out of the cyclone is run through at least one filter (Hepa), then exhausted outside.
Then have a some sort of other air filtering device near the work filtering whatever makes it's way into the the room.
Additionally some overall room air handling device like our HVAC systems could be employed.
I do have an old electrostatic air filtration device I could use for that perhaps. Would need regular cleaning with a soap free dishwasher run.
Any errors in my thinking?
I guess I’ll stick to blowing my garage out with my leaf blower. 😏
😂😂😂
same here
Yeah I honestly I still do that. Every tool can't be hooked up to a dust collector or I just need to make one cut so my shop still has dust everywhere. I think the dust avoidance system is second best to collecting it. A good squirrel cage fan blowing away the dust while you work is much more affordable and convenient .
Glad I'm not the only one who does that. This video makes me a little ashamed of my shop setup
I do that. Hahahaha!
Thanks for the more detailed explanation. I put a 4" ducted soil pipe system in which works quite well, I was going to purchase a a better cloth filter bag but now after seeing this I am going for the cannister filter. Your explanation of not losing so much of the airflow using one of these has saved me the pain of a lot of trial and error, not to mention the money saved. So its a thumbs up from me.
Collecting "Dust" as opposed to "Chips" is a quite different thing. A relatively slow air flow does a good job at collecting dust because the particles are small and they are quickly slowed to where they are floating in air. Chips, on the other hand, have a lot more mass to surface area and will travel much farther and escape many dust collection systems. But these are usually few and are easily collected by other means. It is the dust that I want to get rid of because it settles on everything given enough time.
EXCELLENT video that touches on pretty much everything I need to consider for my system. A slight but important correction concerns air velocity though ducts. Ducting that is too large does not clog due to "increased resistance"--it actually reduces air flow resistance. However, its larger diameter reduces air SPEED through the pipe which allows heavier particles to drop out of the air stream easier, and reduces the "push" on any particles being evacuated along the pipe.
Just go the Matthias Wandel approach... and have a dust collector for every machine 😂🤣
That guy is smart, sometimes too smart and yet, at the same time, not so smart. His approach from the last that I've seen, is more of a bit of laziness on his part.
Great information. Instead of using a pleated filter, could you just vent the dust/ air outside. This will increase the air flow. I have a Grizzly 220volt system in a 600sq ft shop. I turn wood bowls, there is alot of sanding. Any pros or cons is appreciated. Keep helping us.
I spent over 30 yrs in the mobile industrial dry vacuum (Air moving) service sector. What you described are known problems in my field. You would think that someone who operates a $400K machine would understand these principles. They are the same whether you are designing a permanent system or a temporary field erected one. Bravo for your video.
PS: I have a very small 8X12 shop that I installed a properly sized shop vac powered system. I used 2" rubber wyes that are ment for cast iron plumbing, nice gradual sweeping entries and PVC conduit very large swept elbows. I also used a HD sourced Dustoper dust/debris separator. I only use it on a very few tools, router table and small bandsaw. If I had a larger shop I would definitely install a lot larger system.
Thanks again for your video.
PS, PS: you were wrong on one point. HVAC piping can be installed where you don't have a case of running against the stream, just turn it around. The male end should be pointing at the female. I know 😜😜
If you turn the wyes around, they point in the wrong direction. And the crimped seams leak like crazy.
I see your point. However If you really search Wyes are made for air exchanger systems for local collection of the air, such as isolation rooms in hospitals that need negative air pressure (1-2 Hg).
Two things: Install your filter and motor just outside your shop in a protected area; eliminate the fine particle passing through the filter bag into the shop. DON'T grind metal on sanders in a wood shop, sparks will cause a smoldering fire.
Throwing metal sparks into a pile of sawdust is indeed a bad idea, but it should be noted that piles of metal dust (from grinding) can also be ignited, even without wood dust present.
Also, I think lung protection maybe didn't get quite enough attention in this video. Regardless of whatever dust/smoke collection system you may have in your shop, it's not going to get everything coming off of a machine. A half-mask respirator with P100 filter cartridges is a must-have for any woodworking, metalworking, or welding.
Thank's, I have very small shop and I want to set a vacuum system. I think you have saved me some time money. Have a great day.
Stumpy: You mention using PVC pipe however, I didn't see any grounding wire in the photos. Do you ground your PVC piping ?
That's pretty much a myth, or an old wives tail as we call it. No need to ground, it's not going to ignite.
My recall is that he covers it in the video when they installed the PVC ducting when they moved into the post office. If memory serves he takes the stance that it's not needed (the density of chips/dust isn't high enough for sparks to actually ignite it). However, I think he then reasons that it's easy to add by using a copper wire linking occasional screws through the duct.
th-cam.com/video/WJ8NMYlhaLQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/WJ8NMYlhaLQ/w-d-xo.html
Haha, man! This video is like a review of my fluid-dynamics class in college.
Everything here is a very solid real-world demonstration of closed-channel fluid dynamics. And yes, air is a "fluid".
"Surface roughness", or how "smooth" the pipe is, has a huge impact on how stuff flows through pipes. Joints all also have different flow-sapping coefficients associated with them.
It's been a few years and I haven't had the opportunity to review this material since, but man oh man, listen to what he's saying, folks.
Woot my hands at 6:06
You could be a model, a hand model.
Hey buddy one of these days I'm gonna pump the air outside through a vent the way you did it. Your video was a game changer for me. I don't have space for a big filter.
I like the channel name. I went to school with a guy we called 7/8ths. He'd lost the end of his left middle in a "table saw incident". He would also use that finger to flip you off to prove how much he didn't care to send the very best.
I disconnect my 4 inch hose from my table and attach it to my router table which is on wheels so I use the same amount of hose for both, I use my shop vac on my table top band saw but I wsa going to do a whole system until I saw this video which smartened me up 100 %. Great video, even my wife liked it...
I havre a perfect dust collector. I just hand my son a broom.
😂😂
I've been eyeballing and trying to figure out a dust collection system for over a year now and this is been the best video out there to help me figure out what I need for my shop thanks a lot
Hey James, You should know I've learned a number of useful things from you and your videos and appreciate the example you represent to the woodworking community.
Believing you're a reasonable guy I do hope, since you've snipped a screenshot from my dust collection system: th-cam.com/video/qjI5l4nF9AM/w-d-xo.html to post in your video as an example of what NOT to do in some, maybe even most, ductwork systems, that you'll do me the courtesy of explaining to your viewers the context of my system compared to yours. Regardless of your response to my hopeful comment I'm not going to point out things from your shop and/or workflow to my audience that are woefully lacking from my frame of reference... that would be both cowardly and disrespectful.
Best regards,
Matt Jackson
Next Level Carpentry on TH-cam
Hi, Matt. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not mean the "cowardly and disrespectful" portion of your comment since it GREATLY escalates what would otherwise be a simple misunderstanding of intent. I chose that image from Google not really knowing who you were. It wasn't personal at all. I needed a photo of a long piece of flex hose in a shop setting, and I found yours a little humorous. It was an important point that I was making, as I am sure you will agree. However, I admit that the image I chose lacks context, and I regret that. I own the same Harvey dust processor that you have and it produces an abundance of airflow for the size shop you own, giving you the luxury of using a lot more flex hose than most other woodworkers should use. I said as much while defending you in response to the comment I received about it below. Given that I neglected to provide context in the video I will pin to the top of the comments a statement about it. Because, as you said in the first half of your comment, I am indeed a "reasonable guy". Have a nice day, Matt :)
(This comment is now pinned to the top of the comments section, directly below the video.) IMPORTANT: In the video I show an image of a workshop with an excessively long length of flex hose. I found the image on Google and thought it was a humorous example of a big piece of hose. I neglected to provide context for the image. The gentleman in the photo was attaching that hose to a much more powerful system than is found in most small workshops. He could afford to lose some airflow from the long flex hose, and it works well for him. By not providing that context I made it appear that HE was making a mistake rather than my intended point, which is that most OTHER folks should not do that with their single-stage systems. I am sorry I didn't make that clear, which is why I have removed the image from the video thumbnail and I am pinning this comment to the top so everyone can see it.
Concise, simple, easy to understand. The summary was great. I will be back! This is important stuff. Thank you.
This video saved me hundreds of dollars. Thank you so much. I was in the process of ordering plumbing for a new system. You made many great points.
Great video! Whenever I think about pressure I remember this formula. PV = nRT. where Pressure * Volume = moles of gas * idea gas constant * temperature. For a dust collection the nRT is a constant, so that leaves us with P = 1 / V. This just means if the volume of air doubles, the pressure drops by half. What does this have to do with dust collection? Well going back to your comment about gates being close to the split, that helps reduce the total amount of volume in the ducting therefore keeping a higher pressure. Shorter ducting means less volume and more pressure. One thing this formula does not consider is the resistance of the ducting. You want a big enough diameter to make the resistance a small factor. Hence the typical 4-6" range of ducting sizes.
On a side note this same formula can be used on tires but with the Temperature being the thing that changes. PV = nR * Temperature. If the temperature drops and your tire pressure stays the same, you can see that the volume must drop proportionally. Temperature is in Kelvin so a 10K degree drop is 3.7% reduction in volume (10 / 273 ) or a loss of ~1.3 PSI on a 35 PSI filled tire.
Thank you, l was so clueless about dust collection. I got using shop Vacs on my orbital sander and mitre saw right. Now l know how to correct my dust collector. Very grateful.
Excellent video - packed with valuable information, void of filler and annoying background music. Thanks for sharing this content.
Excellent video. It helped make sense of a number of issues I have encountered trying, unsucessfully, to manage dust in my small DIY workshop. Thank you.
Excellent video, you are so well spoken and able to keep up the monologue without irritating edits. My only comment is that you almost completely discount the use of (snap lock) HVAC steel duct in favor of PVC. Many of us use it and have found it an economical yet effective alternate to PVC or spiral pipe. 10 years and yet to find a clog.
The video was very instructive. Any dust collection system needs to not only work but be cost-effective. My hobby wood shop is in a 2400 sf metal building with a 20' high metal roof with sky-lights, all un-insulated. It's a barn/giant garage. It would take an enormously large system to get even 25% of the dust. More than the cost of installation (and modification as tools are added or moved), there are the significant costs for maintenance and electricity. Where the dust comes off the various tools is not always the same - it depends on what I'm doing with them. Even putting vacuum cleaners on them requires that I have enough power for both the tools and the vacuum cleaner to run off of the same power line. I would be mostly sucking up the air around the tools and not from the tools. These vacuum hoses can also interfere with tool usage. For a centralized system, I would have to run vacuum tubing along metal walls and over 14' doors with the added inconvenience of opening and closing blast gates. And then there's the noise factor -- my hearing is bad enough as it is! Currently, I only use 2 tools that actually require vacuum attachments and those are my thickness planer and my drum sander and I have dedicated vacuum cleaners for them. But their filters usually clog up before their canisters are even 25% full. Without air conditioning, I need to use fans and open the bay doors to keep the temperature inside bearable in the Houston summers. So, air filters would be filtering outside air more than inside. Using a vacuum cleaner, I just clean up around the various work benches and tools when needed. I don't see any other practical and affordable dust collection system for my situation.
My new shop is going up next week 1500SqFt I stumbled across your channel and Thank You. I have been through all of the dust collection mistakes in previous shops. I am leaning toward single stage on wheels moving tool to tool then adding a grizzly overhead filter.
Hay @Stumpy Nubs show some respect for Next Level Carpentry he's a good guy and has contributed a lot the wood working community and the TH-cam creator community. I like is instructional technique his calm demeaner and good sense of humor. I do like this video of yours as it is very factual and packed with GREAT advice, Thank-you.
Read the comment pinned to the top of the comments.
I was struggling the past few days to make dust collection for an old school combo machine I got recently because I couldn't find 2 1/2" flexible hose to suck dust from the jointer and planer. this was very informative, thank you.
Great video, I have a small garage shop, I'm using small 1HP Harbor freight dust collectors, 1 for my miter saw hood and 1 for my table saw each with less than 3 feet of flex hose & a shop vac for the router table. I'd love a big set up but this works for now !
This is the best video I have found that provides a full explanation of dust collection. Great job!!
This was really helpful. I will get a shopvac and use it for now since I only use one machine at a time anyway. Also, all of my equipment is folded away when not in use since my 3-car garage always has my two cars parked in it (my car is in the one-car stall, and my wife drives into the center of the two-car stall). Basically, everything is put away when not in use. Table saw, mitre table, and compound mitre saw are my main tools, but I have lots of hand tools that have ports (circular saw, sabre saw, sander, etc.). I think the shopvac is the way to go. Thanks for preventing me from wasting money!
That Delta your showing is what I brought used. It worked great for a while but recently the capacitor blue. Trying to find a new one has been a nightmare. When I get it repaired I will be taken your advice while I set up my shop. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Stumpy, great information clearly enunciated.
I have reverse engineered ( well done things in an obverse way) my dust extraction. I have put all smaller machines (thicknesser, jointer etc) on trolleys so they can be moved to the center of the room where they can connect directly to my single phase dust extractor unit, wheel them out when needed, then put them away for cleanup.
I had not properly considered flow rate and power, where collection of chips and dust is directly adjacent to the source, so have now bought a ShopVac to get that high power high speed flow from router etc.
Love your channel, Geoff
I have a very small shop (8x26). I use a shop vac with a seperator and the EXHAUST SIDE PIPED TO THE OUTSIDE. I also have a 2'x2' fan with a filter behind it. Plus, I have a 1'x2' window fan permanently mounted in an exterior wall (can close it on cold days) My air quality monitor tells me that this approach is working. In worst case scenarios (cutting mdf), I open my door to allow the fan to move the air outside quicker. If I had a larger shop, the advice in this video would be very useful. Maybe someday! Thanks James.
Thank you for this! I've made all these mistakes as well, now working on a new system so thank you for the great summery.
Stumpy, your presentation is clear, concise, and well supported by your visual aids and explanations. Thank you for sharing your hard-won wisdom. I have watched about a dozen videos so far on dust collection systems and yours was by far the most objective and comprehensive. Based on what I have gleaned from your video I will be using a shop vac with a cyclone separator and 2.5" hoses for all my small power tools. For all the large power tools I will use a single-stage vortex dust collector, with rigid 4" PVC pipe, minimal bends, clean-outs at the end of every straight run, limited 4" flex tubing, and blast gates at the Y-fittings off the main line rigid pipe. I haven't decided on what HEPA system yet. Again, thank you! I was seeing plenty of flex pipe product online and not a lot about the pros and cons. I am certain you have already saved me a lot of grieve and wasted money.
Excellent summary of the issues and the value of KISS. I have the Harbor Freight unit with the pleated filter you recommended earlier. Ran 4" flex hose manifold. No good. Ran separator. Dropped to much flow. I now use 4" pvc manifolds to feed each half of shop with short 4" flex connections with one blast gate each side. One machine at a time for the most part. I may switch out from blast gates to pluggable 4" ports. For table saw I go direct. Summary: Your dust collector must both suck and blow well with minimal interference.
Thanks Again for sharing your journey. The knowledge you have gathered and shared from you experiences will save a great many people many years, dollars, frustration, and disappointment. Very well Done !
Thanks for good explanation about dust collecting and very good explaining about what is not good to invest on. I have learned a lot from you, and you have saved me a lots of time, money and thinking about it. I know that your videos are for professional people and they know whatever tool or system that you mention, but for a beginer like me a photo or a drawing picture help a lot to understand what tool you talk about, what system is not good with a red cross over, or what is ok with a green ok