History of WWI Primer 042: French Model 92 Espagnol a S&W K-Frame Copy Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
The Revolver 1889-1914
AWF Taylerson
Smith and Wesson 1857 - 1945
Barnes
French Service Handguns 1858-2004
Medlin & Huon
The K-Frame Revolver
Mullin
You can now find these and other books through our A-store. When buying through this link we receive a small commission that goes on to help with production.
astore.amazon.c...
Historical music from this episode:
Ils n'passeront pas
Marcelly
Dinah
Peerless Quartet
Original music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
www.themoonandy...
Safe range space thanks to Shoot Logic
www.shootlogic....
In collaboration with The Great War
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Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Visit us at candrsenal.com
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The K frame is truly God's gift to the revolver shooter. My first pistol was a Mod 17 and once proficient with that went to the Mod 15 which was replaced in my duty holster by the Mod 19. My last duty revolver was the Mod 66 2 1/2". In over forty five years of shooting the K frame is still my favorite revolver. I still have and use the 19 and the 66 just wish I had held on to the 15 and 17.
Love your presentations and thank you for the effort you make.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
@@Candrsenaltraducir al español
I love that little smirk Mae has whenever she's finished shooting a mag through a gun, kinda like a "hehe this is fucking awesome but i don't want anyone to know how much i enjoy this" kinda smile.
You guys are awsome!!! I bought one from an online auction 2 years ago and just like you said, it was labeled as 32-20. So while I waited for this to arrive, I ordered all my reloading gear for this caliber. Got into a bit of an argument with the gun store guy because he kept saying it was a 38. Sure enough, on the cylinder it had a clear 38 stamped where the star should be. Anyway, I loaded some 32-20 and it fired them, just not very good at all. Again, just like you said. So it sat in the safe ever since and I could not find any information on this revolver. No markings on it besides serial numbers, 38 on the cylinder and Orbea Hermanos. None of my reloading books were of any help. Until I came across this video. I literally jumped off my couch as if watching a sporting event!!! Scared the crap out of my girlfriend sitting next to me. I looked up this caliber and found a video on how to make this ammo out of 32-20 components. That very day, I spent it making the ammo and tested it. Worked perfectly!!! Othias, Mae, you all rock!!! Thank you so much!!!
I have one of these in 32-20. Not the easiest ammo to find, but I managed to get ahold of some. Love this revolver. Locks up tight, no timing issues. Spanish guns are a bit like the older Japanese guitars. Their copies of sound designs. People give them a lot of grief, but they do the job and they do it fairly well.
You have THE BEST C&R channel on TH-cam. The absolute best.
aww
Definetly underappreciated. But I guess we are all Nerds.
Stew Knoles been watching this channel for ages not knowing what c&r means. Just found out
its true
*[Potentially stupid question warning.]* What does C&R mean?
This is yet another example of the outstanding work of your channel. Who knew that the Model 10 played a role in the war via Spain, yet, it was such a great gun that it was not surprising to learn that this S&W K frame pistol made an appearance in "The Great War". The gun was such a classic design, much like the Colt 1873 Single Action Army, that it was still in use many years after its introduction.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am a history nerd from Denmark and love your channel. I can´t WAIT for the episode on the m/ 1917. I just love than gun
I don't have a thing for guns. I do love history and general knowledge, though. I think you are doing a great job.
Thanks!
See, thats what I said too before I started working for this guy. After he took me shooting though, I kinda have a thing for guns now :P
BAanimations my great great grand father had one in ww1 stuffed in his waist band my grand dad also carried it as well in ww2 and my uncle carried it in nam I still have it as well as a greener shotgun and a winchester model 50
BAanimations I am a gunsmith in training. I want to work for C&Rsenal!
I inherited a 1906 S&W hand ejector many years ago in .32 long from my grandfather which had quite a fascinating history. Fantastic revolver; one of the smoothest operating I have ever handled and amazingly accurate. It's great to learn more about the history of the model evolution. Thanks for your dedication and the fantastic content that you thoroughly and consistently deliver! Keep up the great work fellow beard bearer! (And of course Mae and the all involved)
"An explosive bullet for hunting whales - So metal" Love it :D
Sea shepherd disapproves. Lol. Othais you’re commentary on things is unique and hilarious
The 19th century was a tough time to be a whale
I really loved this one. I've always known about the Spanish copies of Smith & Wesson revolvers but knew nothing about them. Now I know a ton about them. Keep up what you're doing, this is a really great channel.
Thank you, glad it was worth your time!
I think this episode definitely shows Mae's shooting ability. With such an older double action she is able to keep her groups within what appears to be the size of one's hand at 9 meters... one handed.... keep it up!
I think this might be my favorite episode from you guys. Smith & Wessons are beautiful and the guns that came out of Spain during WWI are just fascinating to see every time. Othai's dry humor really got a chuckle out of me too.
I for one thank you for the tight, meaningful, and well produced content. This is such a wonderful series and I greatly look forward to what the future holds for this show.
d'aww thanks!
Spanish guns are a great value, and the ones I've seen are very well made.
Wow I bought one of these a few years back and it totally rocks in 8mm. Thanks for the history I did not know all of this.
"Man of appreciable beardage" I'm jealous now.
GET HIM
I can't even grow a proper goatee let alone a full beard. So I'm jealous.
@@_Wiseguy7 Laughs in “can grow a beard”!
@@colinmasterson666 *chuckles in 'Ned Kelly'*
seeing that disassembly, I have to say, "that sure is a screwy handgun."
Nathan Brown You get 1 thumbs up for that sir.
GO AWAY
You left out "Heyoooooo."
So excited about the S&W Model 3 Russian episode. I am an astute student of Old West guns and know them well but I am also looking forward to your upcoming episodes because I am learning more and more about WWI weapons. I'm so glad to know that you plan on sticking around for a while and doing the great work you're doing. The amount of research and detail you put into each of these episodes is admirable and appreciated. Happy New Year and thank you for bringing us this content.
We'll keep plugging!
Wish the history channel was like this
That spanish pronunciation was quite spot on! Just ignore de "h", its totally silent in spanish. Great episode, as always.
Herr Manos is an honorary title
Great start for the new year. Fantastic show guys, thank you for doing it.
thanks for watching
Nice video, guys! Mae always looks so happy when she's shooting.
Happy new year Othias, Mae and the crews of C&Rsenal!
The Korean History/Gun nut, Jack.
Happy New Year
You guys make really great quality content, and I know, I say this almost every video but I cant keep myself from saying it, congrats!
I appreciate it.
Next Patreon goal: 4 hour videos. Kidding, I guess I can just watch each episode 4-7 times.
jesus man
Happy new year guys. Really fun episode to watch this early (12pm) in the morning :D
Happy new year
"I'm Mae and I'm a revolver-holic."
"Hi, Mae!"
Like we says in Norway: If not for her ears the smile would have vent all around her head!
So great to see you guys grow to 50K. Keep up the amazing job! From a man of inconsiderable beardage.
"Time to get out and start handloading."
Wish I'd heard that 5 years ago, starting from scratch having to buy all the starting equipment and the consumable supplies hasn't come down from the price hikes that started about 4 or 5 years ago, kinda hard to do on a budget until after making 10000 rounds or so...
Great job once again guys, it's definitely thanks to this show that I can educate my family and friends if we come across WW1 surplus in a shop (I'm kind of eyeing a 200 dollar M95 Stutzen with a missing front sight blade because I know I can get the missing parts, but holding back because the ammo and clips are a major undertaking on a casual shooter budget). Can't wait to see the Colts have their day.
Yeah, we're thankful for the Patreon support just for that reason.
happy new year guys and gals!!! im always impressed by the level of research you bring, especially with these more obscure guns. i wish you guys did other military gear!
oh God no more work
But more guns doh .3. also if the Lee-Enfield is the What-Now, then what is the Springfield's nickname? Just curious, I'm more interested in what's coming next than those two rifles.
Trocaola S&W top break clones were good enough to become a British alternative pattern option, very high quality manufacturer.
There's just something special about your voice that keeps me interested :D
you should hear me whisper
I've got one of the Trocaola Aranzabal ones. The shop I bought it from took the badly kerned barrel stamping ("TROCAOLAARAMZABALYCIAEIBAR(ESPANA)") for Mystery Pistol gibberish, figured it was a WWII-vintage Victory clone ("possibly Chinese?"), and listed it as chambered in, and I quote, ".32 S&W???" Thank you for the tidbit about the star marking indicating 8mm French chambering, I'd probably never have figured that out otherwise! I love digging into little mysteries like that.
I think my favorite thing about mine is that they spelled their own name wrong in the aforementioned barrel stamping. It really says TROCAOLA ARAMZABAL, with an M. :)
Topic, which is largely unknown even for handguns enthusiasts. Thank you for that video.
Believe it or not I actually looked for one of these for about 7 years before getting my hands on one (at auction for $125). They're very tough to find in Canada. I like the thing! It's clearly not real S&W quality but the changes they made are actually pretty clever and other than a sticky cylinder release it actually handles pretty decently.
35:00 There are actually a few of these on display in Les Invalides, IIRC more of these than Rubies. That's what initially piqued my interest.
I guess they would be an odd find in Canada
Odder still in that you do see Chamelot-Delvige's, Mle 1892s and Rubies fairly often.
Well shit
Ive owned ome of these for years, its been a wall hanger, always wondered what it was about.
pretty damn cool.
Side note, mine is actually marked 32-20 WCF on the barrel, now you have me wondering if they stamped that simply becuase it would fit and fire.
Yours is probably a commercial one after ww1. I have one too, they made them for export because it was as simple as a chamber reamer to convert from 8mm ordinance to 32-20. I just bought one the other day.
Gah, this K-frame geek is in heaven from finding this one. Thanks guys!
Othias, you are looking skinnier there days!
slowly but surely.
Quite a few turned up in here Australia after the War, presumably as souvenirs. I have quite a number of S&W clones and Ruby type pistols in my collection! They are all quite respectable handguns. Thanks for letting people know that they're not as bad as the reputation they seem to have in America!
I bought one of these from a friend. I absolutely love it
Mae, just a quick tip that did wonders for my revolver shooting (with a S&W 10-1 that sits right in front of me as I watch this): Don't try to stage the trigger along your double action pull. An IDPA buddy of mine that shoots a lot more revo than I do, told me "keep the cylinder moving." The smoother and more contiguous that pull is, the more success I think you'll see. Not that your groups were anything at which to sneer, certainly.
Great presentation on these very misunderstood revolvers.
I've seen Fiocchi 8mm Lebel revolver ammo occasionally. I hope they still make and import it.
As far as shooting stance, I also collect old gun books and magazines, and wonder if you ever try to repeat those period correct holds and stances rather than the one handed high grip or the two handed combat stances of today. Would be interesting if you duplicated the 'limped wrist' or 'fencing' hold and see how it works with these old designs.
Yeah a lot of these pistols seem to point down because of that grip. Blegh!
Hey Otsias! I have one of these chambered in .38 Spl. Made for the consumer market some time in the 1920's. It shoots good.
Another great episode! Look forward to seeing the other spanish revolvers covered!
slowly but surely
銃を禁じられた日本ではスペイン製コピーのリバウンド構造がどうしても分からなかったのですが、あなた方のおかげでとてもよく理解できました。
あなた方の活動に心からの敬意と惜しみない拍手を。ありがとう。 ✨✨✨✨😎😎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🎉🎉
Wow. I think this is my favorite video on your channel!
What about Charles Ross though?
Yeah it's hard to beat riding a Chrysler imperial in a pith hat.
ditto1958 did you watch the Ross rifle?
Sweet episode, as always. Looking forward to the S&W Triple Lock and 1917 videos! :-)
One day!
Wow nice shooting Mae. I have one of these and love to shoot it. You shoot it far better than I do. Great show guys. I love the history and the guns. Keep it up.
As always a perfect mix of informative and fun.
and droning
Finally got my posters on Saturday, thanks guys!
Sorry about the delay!
S&W would get their revenge in the sequel. Even in Canada today you still trip over Victory models in gun shop used cabinets and gun shows across the country.
Beautiful revolvers aren't they?
William Barnett-Lewis indeed, I have a slightly crap example that I’m restoring.
Yup, I have a candian marked one. (Probably provost corp) I honestly shoot it way more than my hi power. I love 38sw.
I could have bought one of these for $150 at a pawnshop a few months ago and I'm still kicking myself over letting it go.
War were declared.
t'were indeed
Ah, the K-frame. The piece I carried on duty for an armoured car company. Didn't know the original design was about 100 years old!
The K frame is pretty much THE revolver. If you think of “stereotypical revolver chambered in a conveniently common stereotypical cartridge” you think of a K frame
C&R Channel is my favorite I just love Othias and Mae a girl after my own heart a revolver freak like me
I just got one of these today. I wens to jacobs cave, a swap meet, and saw an old pistol. I asked the guy about it and he said he got it at an estate sale for cheap and didnt know anything about it. I decided to buy it for $85, and it came with a box of 50 rounds. Id say I got a good deal.
great as always
Thanks!
Came across one chambered in 32 s&w long at a gunshow last week though it was 38 special because thats what the tag said ended up getting the smith and wesson model 10 above it.
I have a Garate Anitua in .38 long colt. Thanks for the cool video.
Thank you for this. I'm at home with a wretched cold today, and this was something I could watch in bed.
Also, I kept waiting for Mae to go 'welp, he dead.'
get better
Othais, Spanish manufacturers picked single V spring mechanism from Gasser 1877 copies which used Warnant mechanism with single V spring. About same time Swiss started using pretty similar mechanism with single V spring on their model 1882 revolver. Fagnus revolver (which was one of highest quality European revolvers of the period) also used it since 1878.
I agree it comes from Warranty but had not seen another Eibar variation pre war with it. I assumed the experience came from.cloning both the Boden and S&W
Gasser 1877 copies should have it...
Speaking of Bodeo, look at this, it is in french 8mm Mle 92 caliber with 9(!) rounds cylinder. No markings at all, except "1892" on the lanyard ring mount. I suspect it is Spanish but have no proof... Owners grandfather brought it from WW1 and despite appearance mechanically it is still excellent with very good timing and cylinder lock.
68.media.tumblr.com/d8771aed7272d57befa42ab5845ebcbe/tumblr_oj8b0sBCHv1sfltapo1_1280.jpg
miniaturesandcostumes.tumblr.com/post/155365155005/most-probably-spanish-9-shot-copy-of-the-italian
Never knew about these fascinating artifacts being chambered in French service 8mm, thanks.
ps being misinformed thought they were ".32"s.
Glad to hear!
you produce great content and information you provide is spot on. carry on guys - you rock!
Thanks!
Three years late but happy new year to you too ;) !
Im amazed by the quality of your work, the animations, diagrams, etc coming from such a small channel. Your hard work shows. I just wish you guys could find a way to streamline your videos, cut the fat as it were, because an hour long youtube video is just a bit much. Just a recommendation....
Anyway saw a post war Spanish revolver at a gun shop for 100 bucks yesterday. Even at that price I couldnt justify buying it without knowing what it was. Went home to research and sure enough C&R has a detailed video on it haha! Went back today and it was sold. Just my luck.
I am reminded about how Keith in his "Sixguns" talked up the S&W trigger as being superior to Colt. I agree completely. I've owned both. I've sold all my Colts and still have the S&W's.
Isn't it the middle of the night for you guys. Thank you. Go to bed now.
Hey, I got to sleep by 6am
So you can get up bright and early at 6:30? c:
Man, I love my victory. Super accurate. 38sw is such a pussycat to shoot.
I just noticed how you tongue-tripped ALL OVER "Connecticut," but absolutely nailed the pronunciation of "Worcester."
According to gunsmith Grant Cunningham, the Colts keep time just as well as the S&Ws do IF you keep up on the scheduled maintenance. The Colt system uses the hand to exert pressure on the cylinder, holding it solidly in place. When the trigger is pressed and held down on an S&W, there will be a tiny amount of play in the cylinder. This is not a problem, it's how the gun is designed and supposed to work. The Colt, on the other hand, when the trigger is pressed and held down, should have NO play in the cylinder AT ALL. None. The cylinder should stay put like it was welded to the frame until you release the trigger. Colts get out of time because when the hand starts to wear out, there begins to be a little play in the cylinder, and shooters used to S&Ws and other revolvers that are supposed to have this tiny amount of play think nothing of it and keep shooting the gun long after it should be serviced, and then it does go out of time. The Colt system causes the hand to wear a bit faster, but this is the most easily replaced part in the lockwork, and it gave the cylinder the "bank vault lockup" which was supposed to improve the gun's accuracy. As long as you replace the hand at the recommended intervals, Colt's keep time as well as any other revolver, but the wear to the hand is something you need to watch out for.
Always fantastic content. Keep up the good work.
thanks
Excellent as always!
Thank you!
awesome. awesome....awesome....
Would it be possible for Mae to do a short piece on hold/grip & trigger technique for pistol & revolver stocks please, including the "looser grip" of Mae's. Thanks in advance. Pete, (with small hands & short trigger finger).
Oh boy! A four hour episode!
no
I saw a nickel plated TAC at a local shop the other day, very nice price, in .38 I think. I'll go back tomorrow and actually handle it. For the asking price it might be worth picking up. This review and a couple of print articles make me look more favorably at it, even though some of the forums have more negative opinions, probably out of ignorance, some lump them into the Saturday night special camp when clearly they are not that.
Caliber differences aside if its anything like my Victory Model which I sold over a decade ago, they are solid shooting revolvers, and though it was reputed to be under powered against the native tribesmen in Southeastern Asia, they were a Lend-lease import to Great Britain for the Pacific Theatre of Operations. The 1892 was a like case in point, an indiscriminate and descent copy by a foreign maker for a combatant unable to produce their own field service weapons in ample quantities, and made to run readily available munitions stores. If the idea is to put six home in a fit fashion, and not fall apart in your hands while reloading the cylinder for the next unlucky chap who may wander before your sights, it is a fine weapon for home defense or a camp gun to keep things in order. I would welcome having one if the situation demanded its necessity.
2:22 Holy Cow! Jeffrey Wright is a time traveler!
I think Othais said Hermanos hand of fate... and I died laughing 😂
someone got it.
i have a Orbea revolver and I love it.
Hi, l have one of these guns with an entwined c & w. It's different because it's chambered for 38 special and 38 S&W. Otherwise it's the same as you show, Spanish proof marks and all. Good show. Thank you.
awesome, probably a post-war sale. The sort that drove S&W nuts!
Great job. Springs of Fate!!
Thanks!
Nice video. I have one of those Eibar Spanish revolvers. Mine is in .38 special, is nickel plated, and was made in 1924. It's timing is still good but I had to retire it, it began having light strikes. v_v
why this channel don"t hit a millions subscribe
it's long?
I sense the us army 1917's are coming. can't wait!
woke up. saw this video. it's gonna have to wait till after work lads. hope it's good
hi.I'm french and my father has two of these guns for ages...from his own father i guess, i'm not sure.Anyway, one of these two guns is double action only .
Love your work, Othias and Mae! I only recently discovered your channel, and I've been watching flat-out in an attempt to catch up; enjoying everything you've made well beyond this point, thank you! ...So I would feel really bad if you took the following as anything other than an appreciative constructive suggestion: Some of us would find it easier if you described weapons that are well known in the US with the same level of unassumed knowledge as you do with foreign things. I do realise that most of your audience knows a 'Military and Police revolver' is a '1905' is a 'K-frame' (and possibly also a 'Model 10'?). But, as someone whose hands-on experience of handguns has been limited to the wartime 'service' and 'personal' handguns used by Australian forces and their former enemies, it took me quite a bit of internet research before I worked out that the 'Smith and Wesson .455 MkII Hand Ejector' is considered a different revolver because it was an 'N-Frame' (I think?...I'm sure there are more differences, which I'm yet hopeful to learn?). My main message is that you guys do awesome work and I'm a big fan.
Glad you are enjoying it! We try to walk a line of details vs fatiguing viewers into losing the topic. Also that 455 is nearly ready for a whole episode.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply! I really admire how well you manage to walk that line, and very much look forward to the episode you mention.
You are right Othais, I knew nothing about these Español copies.
Dope right?
Like the storeys you tell , keep up the good work
Thanks!
What's your EDC these days, Mae? You said you carried the K-frame for a couple of years when you got your CCW permit.
Grizz Axxemann right now it's a s&w shield 9mm.
Mae Winchester your snubbie is beautiful. Don't know why but I fell in love with it. What model is it
excellent guys
Thanks!
Mae: Love that snubbie. Props for going Old School on your CC. Out of curiosity, does Othais CC? If so, what's on his hip? Great episode again, by the way. You guys are reliable in that respect, each and every time. It makes me forget the fact that I still haven't seen a primer on my dear old SMLE; almost......
I carry a cz75 D compact
Nice episode. I love my K-frames; one of them dates to 1920. If I was running around the Western Front, I'd pick a M&P in .38 Special over any of the .32s.
werd
Yay, the tables are right!!
Hello, great video! Could you help me identify a Spanish copy of a smith and Wesson
It's a Fagnus! 🤯
Okay, Othais, you cant pronounce Connecticut but you can pronounce Worcester? I'm impressed.
When Serbian army was reformed at Salonica some of those revolvers were supplied (main handgun supplied were Ruby pistols, but there were also revolvers, both Mle.1892 and Spanish ones). No idea which ones were supplied as local sources only list them as “Revolver, M.92, spanski (Spanish), 8mm
probably this and / or the colt clone
i have this one :P
Don't ditch the Peacemaker, it's still the most popular revolver ever made... And still in production!