Midi VS Instrument Tracks : Which ones should you use?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- On this video, I answer one of the most common asked questions about Cubase midi and instrument tracks. And clear up some common misconceptions too ;)
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Instrument track!! 💯💯💯 “Keep your life simpler”
If you use MIDI tracks, it is much more simple to change the entire instrument afterward. Your MIDI track is then assigned to an instrument instead of connected to it and fully integrated. Change an entire instrument on an instrument track is much more complex than with a MIDI track assigned to a Rack Instrument. So that is for me an important pro-MIDI track argument.
agreed , unfortunately there is something of an issue here if you have not made up your mind what instrument to use then if you change to something even relatively close but not the same then the way you play it often needs to change. For example a bass track. Many different acoustic or electric basses you need to play differently because of the way each responds to velocity or note duration these effect the way it sounds and often needs you to replay it again. So its really good to decide first what exact sound you are going to use so your MIDI is played in in a way , for example the piano you choose of bass responds. Of course you can do this later but rerecording a track. its small but important thing to keep in mind to help your work flow be as efficient as possible, Choice of sounds is extremally import in the final mix. planning as much as possible before can help. of course sometimes we may like to just wing completely but in that case at least having a good grasp of what sounds fit well in the mix can help so you grab good ones
Just for fun I quickly benchmarked (very non-scientifically) single patch per instance vs. multitimbral on my AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X (32 cores, SMT disabled), using Omnisphere 2 in Nuendo 10.2.20. I picked Omnisphere, because anecdotally it seems like it has one of the highest per process overheads out of all my VST instruments, so it should provide a "worst case scenario" baseline.
I loaded the first eight patches in the Omnisphere 2 default list and had them play a scale with 1/8s at 120. I kept duplicating the tracks until the machine would play no more, with ASIO Guard at high and my RME HSDPe AIO set to 512 samples.
Results: multimbral Omnisphere capped at 136 patches. Single instances at 152. That's a 12% improvement in the single instances favor, which, while not huge, is still significant. However, I was expecting actually a bit more on my machine, given how much the CPU favors parallel workflows. Clearly the multitimbral Omnisphere utilizes multithreading quite well already.
RAM usage doubled from 10GB to 20GB, so RAM is the currency with which you pay for this improved parallelization (and routing convenience). Calculating the RAM difference per instance here, there's roughly a 81MB RAM cost per instance of Omnisphere, so for each eight patches, you use an extra 567MB. That's quite high, so it's something to keep in mind.
Maximum RAM is going up way faster than single thread perfomance in CPUs, so I agree with the idea that it's definitely time to consider leaving multitimbral workflows behind. The day to do that won't be here for every system yet, especially if you have a CPU with a lower core count and less RAM. But it's coming for sure.
Im happy with my omnisphere. Really happy.
Thank you for this test, that's informative.
No one of us loads 152 instance of Omnisphere. So multitimbral has still his place....as he told in the video for instance for Groove Agent or multilayered Sounds in Halion Sonic
Going by your test, the best would be to have 2 or 3 instances and then do everything internally. Just a theory.
I use midi channels for layering. For example I may create low and high layers of sound on synthesizers and then send midi channel to them so I don't need to always input midi on two channels.
Don't forget... if one sets up their Hardware as a Cubase "External Instrument", there's no need to use Midi tracks at all. The Hardware will load as an instrument track, Midi and Audio combined, in realtime (if you set it up right).
dont worry he don’t know what you talking about , cheers 🥂
How do you use the external instrument as a Cubase Instrument if that is a multi timbral instrument? In this case you should use MIDI channels.
@@vegsozoltan5283 Cubase "External Instruments" works for multitimbral instruments too, but yes, you'd need midi tracks for the extra midi channels to route to the "master" instrument track for the external hardware.
You became my number one cubase tutorial guy really fast and helped me tons already. Just wanted to say thank you :)
Greg is still the best!!!
Totally agree.
This topic had been confusing me for years - makes perfect sense now. Thanks, man.
Greetings from Vegas Dom! There is great value in having both options - I use both MIDI and Instrument Tracks. So many Cubase users are doing cool creative projects - I do jingles, and often I have to work fast. In my situation, the drawbacks of using MIDI tracks with a frequently-used Multi-timbral synth (Halion Sonic, etc.) are overcome with preset templates. In other words - the template loads preset MIDI tracks, and audio pre-routed to preset Group Channels. (In my case - 4, labeled "drums", "bass", "keys", "guitar". I have 4 tracks in Halion preset and prerouted accordingly. Make sense? If i'm on a deadline, I know where to choose patches, and they are already routed.
All that said - these days - there are SO many cool instruments out there, it's completely reasonable as you're saying in the video to use Instrument tracks. You're not going to use them on every project, and you're not likely to have them pre-loaded in your template.
I think the bottom line is to be aware of both types, and be willing to use either depending on your workflow.
I totally agree with you. But since you asked about ways I use instrument channels:
I pretty much use one instrument track per patch/sound. But I have found that some libraries, like for example Hollywood orchestra, where you need several patches in one instrument (for example violins - could be up to 10 patches), I use expression maps in order to trigger various channels (one patch per midi channel).
That is, only one instrument track and no midi channels in cubase, but the sampler (in this example "play") have several patches loaded, and each patch is dedicated to a midi channel. The old way was to then have several midi channels in cubase, connected to the instrument channel/rack, but now the map is instead controlling what sound is heard.
I can either change the sound with keyswitches/controller, or I can change it in the key editor.
I recently came across this trick and it is a massive time saver and workflow enhancer. For example, the violins could go from pizzicato to legato to marcato etc, and it is all controlled in the key editor with "articulations". Keyswitches are actually eliminated this way, it is faster, and no need for alignment and having midi notes in the score who are just there for the switching, but I can still control what sounds I want to hear with a controller if needed.
This can be done with any sampler, and is very useful for any patch with no keyswitches built in. But so far this can only be done in Cubase as far as I know.
Thanks for taking the time Dom!
I am totally with you. But I really miss that there is no easy way to convert them into each other (MIDI instrument). This is completely incomprehensible to me.
I build large orchestral templates. I halion\kontakt per track. I agree with you. It would also be so good if the track name would take the name of the preset it allocated to by default. This could be an option in preferences “default track name takes preset name” . Also additionally the actual sound being played I.e. the name of the preset or even its full articulation name could be seen in the track., not just in the tiny expression map panel but clealrly in the project window so when the track is stopped the cursor position might show “staccato” . So much time is spent typing in track names simply calling them by the preset names in most cases.
when you load one instance of VST instrument, Cubase will instantiate that instrument and reserver like 1.5GB memory. When you instantiate second VST instrument, it will reserver more memory. If you load one VST instrument, it will only instantiate memory once. Basically if you have tons of ram, you can just always instantiate new VST instrument, no need just basic midi tracks.
Very useful discussion on separating the output channels. Loved the Groove Agent Trick! Gold level content once again!!
Love those little explanation bubbles
Thanks so much!........I need to watch this again.......and then again to absorb it all. I'm a real newbie to virtual instruments and midi. So much to learn!!
Really helpful and concisely explained. Thanks!
I have seen many videos on this subject, but yours is the best by far.
Brilliant and informative demo. Thanks Dom!
Fantastic Dom. Always learning new features and concepts with your videos and comments. Olé.
That is the most amazing intro track I have ever heard dom! It’s so exciting everytime I hear it 😍. I’ve just gone back to Cubase after years and years of neglecting it. I’ve never been able to fully get my head around it but I must say you have helped re-enthuse me. I loved your cc121 video and I was torn between that and a keyboard controller. I ended up getting a nektar P6 and it’s taking some getting used to.....but I think it’s going to be really good. I have about three albums worth of unfinished stuff on nuendo 2 (yes lol) that I was going to re-do on an akai force! Instead I’ve managed to get Cubase 5 up n running so I’m bringing them all into that 😍
SUPERB !! Many Thanks Dom. Sooooo many tutorials still opening midi tracks & racks, then routing, then grouping mix channels, really confusing when getting started. Very clear, very concise Dom. As always !!
Thanks Again Dom! Nothing beats the access to all the plugin power of an audio track over a midi track. Greetings from Oz!
I just went back over this a day later & assigning the kit to individual outs is a BONUS, thanks again!
I used to use midi chanels as an old user of Cubase. Thaks for the update!
This channel is so promising with good content. Intro gets me pumped up. Wish you good luck for your channel.
Hey thanks! Very useful and I enjoyed your style of teaching, and, like you, I'm gonna continue to use Instrument Tracks a lot!!
I'm never disappointed with these videos, there is always something to be learned! Now I understand the concept of "rack mounted" instruments (it seemed like an odd option). It makes far more sense with its historical context as "genuine virtual outboard midi gear" .
Instrument tracks are faster but the rack is still useful for layering, to give one example. I've also had issues with multi-out instruments like Superior Drummer when not using the rack, so I just use it for all multi-out instruments. You can do some interesting things with midi tracks like use them for patterns using the step sequencer or as events that hold automation that can then be moved around the timeline easily. It can also be conceptually useful to think of a part as notes rather than locked into a sound. I like that Cubase offers such flexibility.
You can multi output instrument tracks too
Great explanation, Dom. Very useful!!!
You can load a HALion (Sonic) full of the same sound in several slots with variation you've made and then use an expression map to switch between MIDI channels in one instance you have on screen all the time. You can have one big phat Anima (or Trium or SkyLab or ... n), or one thin one with some hi pass filter, one with some flanger or chorus super stereo etc.. It's less of a hassle to my brain to have the variations in one plugin unit but everybody's different.
In the same manner you can save a little orchestra with leads, pads and basses as a template if you save the sounds as a bank. Then you're ready to go in a similar project.
I don't like the mess in the inspector with both MIDI and audio inserts sends and whathaveyou. It's hard to teach an old dog to shit! :D
There are benefits of both ways so I use both. Monotimbral VSTi:s I sometimes use Intrument Tracks for like most bass tracks only need one.
Maybe I should have more of a method to my madness? 🙃😂
Thanks Dom! Another great tutorial!
Another great informative video. Thanks Dom.
Your videos have been really helpful, thank you
Makes a lot of sense man! :-) There is a lot of "suggestions" in the production world that seems to just be information left over from the legacy days.
Cheers my man,always easy to understand.
One crucial piece of info here is that for those who load lots of tracks in templates - the disable track feature is useful. Nothing is active but all tracks can be ready at your fingertips without having to add tracks repeatedly in every big project.
Man how do I insert a vsti if I import a midi track i create with other software.
Bcs in cubase it is created as midi track, since you need instrument track to play the midi
@@firmans12 Two ways I can think of would be - select "Destination" to be instrument tracks in the import options. See the help here for more info:
steinberg.help/cubase_ai/v10/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/importing_audio_and_midi/importing_audio_and_midi_import_options_for_midi_files_r.html
Otherwise, just create instrument track, and then drag the midi events you imported over to that track from the midi track and delete the midi track afterwards. Hope that helps.
Great info Dom!
Thanks a lot. This questions bothered me for years.
Thank you for this, Dom. I have had that question in the back of my mind about using MIDI tracks and since I don't use outboard instruments besides guitars, I now know I don't need to worry about it!
I have been a Cubase user for 6 years and always thought that Groove Agent would be pointless for me, so thank you for that output tip, I can now see it becoming a part of my work flow
thanks dude this was superhelpfull!!
Very very very helpful; thanks for this one!
Definitely enjoy working with Instrument tracks more than MIDI for the same reasons you highlighted!
brilliant video Dom. i've always wondwered about this. i use instrument tracks most of the time, and in fact midi tracks very rarely nowadays. Usually only use midi tracks if i'm importing a midi drum groove form a 3rd party developer - although not exclusively.
Dom, you’ve done it again. I know all about instrument versus midi track but..........reminding me of the GA mixer to Cubase that I had forgotten about. I gave myself a slap.
So many years as a semi pro dabbler and never really spending enough time on individual beneficial tweaks. At last I learn the right way. Cheers
You don’t have to load instruments into the rack for multi out instruments anymore.
Since about Cubase 8 or 9 the instrument tracks were overhauled to handle multi timbral instruments. You can add additional outputs to an instrument track now & just add MIDI tracks to route MIDI to the additional instruments in Halion or whatever sampler you are using
Simple answer - create templates - the number of steps (midi tracks) is done once. I use both because sometimes you need midi only e.g. Original groove agent or having visual cues on the arrangement page (not as nice if embedded within several takes of single instrument track)
Great tutorial. Thanks
thank you! Been using Cubase for 20 years didn't realize the new way was better
Thanks! Since I started with Cubase many years ago I was using one instance of HAlion Sonic. Now based on your advice I' changing my project to have one per track. I also was using MIDI tracks and now using Instrument tracks. Great advice especially for Groove Agent SE outputs.
Great work Dom! I have used instrument tracks from the time I started using Cubase. As yet I have not had a problem with overloading the CPU at all. It is so much easier to use multiple instances of Halion or Halion Sonic or Groove Agent. There is too much to think about if you use midi tracks!
One (bug?) I've noticed about using instrument tracks, certainly with EZ Drummer, is that the instrument track name is always the same as output 1, changing one changes the other and vice versa. This means you can't meaningfully name your track if you also want to meaningfully name output 1. For example, output 1 is Kick - you whole drum track is now called Kick. This is why I stick with using the VST Rack 😐
Really helpful tutorial thank you very much
Tis was very helpful, thank you kindly.
Great video...it cleared up a lot. I tend to use the rack feature only when I'm starting a project and I'm 'sketching' an initial arrangement and just want a Halion instrument with a preset containing basic instruments; Drums, bass, piano, etc.. I then put the drums into Groove Agent and select different instruments and put them on instrument tracks. So I don't really use the rack feature any longer.
The one thing I was not aware of was the quick way you assigned the drums, with names, to each output. I always did the slow, tedious way. It made the whole video worth the watch. Since I've been using Cubase since VST32, I tend to miss some subtle improvements that are great time savers. Thx.
Dom Great videos ! Cubase users should be verryyyyyy happy about this channel! Greeting from GR! Keep it up!
Great videos dom.
Dom, as usually great video and tips.
Thank you Dom!
Helps a Lot! Thank you : )
Great info given, the section at Export mixer to Cubase , I will find very useful.
Hi Dom, great advice as always. I'm basically a novice. I use outboard gear and soft synths but usually only one patch per synth so instrument tracks are fine. Where I do vary is with drum machines like Battery. I'll have one instance of Battery and one midi track for each drum sound, then when I'm happy with the arrangement I bounce to audio. I'm sure I'm probably missing a trick and could simplify but I do like each drum sound in its own midi track.
I love your stuff 💖
This is gold, cheers.
Thank you... Great info..
Thanks Dom .....really nice and clear....you stay safe!
Thanks, you too!
Thanks friend !
Thank you so much, Dom! Will be sticking to instrument channel. Seems the most logical for me at this moment.
You saved my life today!
Thank you very much for this tutorial!
Glad to hear that! :) :) :)
nicely done sir
Thanks again, Dom! This was the clearest explanation I've seen. Having used Cubase all the way back to Steinberg VST on an Atari, I have some long ingrained habits and have been averse to switching from rack instruments to instrument tracks. You have led me to see the light!
Same here. Exactly.
Snap! Though I changed about 2 weeks ago. Haven't seen any CPU issues and the flexibility is so much better. Goodbye MIDI track you served me well :-) Actually MIDI tracks can be useful for sending controller commands to multiple instruments using MIDI sends.
Great explanation and video. I still use Rack Instruments when using Vienna Ensemble Pro because I like to freely move the outputs next to each one of my midi channels in the arrange window. The Instrument track locks the outputs all to it so the additional midi tracks (channels 2-16) can not have the outputs next to them (midi track 2, output 2, etc). I like to have them next to each midi track so I can do automation in the arrange window and such. I think when one just wants a single instrument, instrument tracks are great because the midi and audio are together as a hybrid but for VE PRO environments with multi-timbral it doesn't quite work as well for me.
wow, i dont comment often, but very good video! you just got yourself a new subscriber! very helpful info!!
Great info as always. I use a 32 channel halion 6 sampler midi rack filled with my fav sounds. I have lots of converted EMU, Ensoniq & Giga lib patches that I still use. Then ASAP I render the parts 2 audio, so I don’t have to assign multi outputs. Love that Halion
I had difficulty using midi tracks probably because I didn't understand how to use it.
I only use instrument tracks exclusively...
Thanks for sharing your expertise.
Learned lots of things bro.. Big thumb from Sri Lanka ❤️
I use midi tracks to automate some elements in fabfilter plugins.
I also use separate midi channels for some other data besides notes. A lot of times when creating, it's very convenient to have some extra track that only does the cutoff frequency or some other parameter. I use a lot of outboard gear. So in the end, tracks are merged. The cpr is exported as a midi file and imported in the MPC. It plays all synths and modules and sets the effect processor to the desired program. In a few cases I exported some audio as well and used that in the sampler, but sinds it's the intention to play and sing along live, I only use that for drum loops and strange effect samples.
You don't need to activate the audiotracks per se, if you assign outputs in the plugin, they will be activated automatically.
Best 12 minutes ever!! Yup, I arrived at the same conclusion (instrument track), but what you really clarified was how the computer processing was great for that decision now. Ahhhhh.
After almost 20 years of screwing around with FL, I'm finally here 😊 really helpful this guy. Love his enthusiasm
Welcome!
Useful vid, thanks. I use Cubase Elements for VSTi projects and use individual instrument tracks. I don’t really need any more than the 24 tracks included but could always use the midi track/rack instrument method if needed.
Eu uso track de instrumentos desde sempre. Tentei usar track midi algumas vezes mais achei pouco prático. Não fez sentido já que usar track de instrumentos no Cubase é tão prático e intuitivo nas produções. Obrigado pelo video. Ótimo trabalho, sou seu fã.
Wow. I had not even thought about those differences. I mainly used instrument tracks so far. I really like the tip about routing Groove Agent to different tracks. Thx Dom.
Heads up:
- for those who like to route the Groove Agent individual sounds to different output tracks (as shown in the video) ... This only works when you use drumsets from "The Kit Se".
- If you use a different kit (for example Beat Agent), then the "Export mixer to Cubase" will be missing from the menu.
tnx for video!
Thank you Dom👋👍
Good job , and this, works .👍
Hi Dom , thanks for the great advice . I just realized that I uselessly use multiple rack instruments and probably waste cpu power. I am switching over to instrument . All you videos are really helpful. I use your tricks daily,. Thank you.
Awesome Dom ! I will follow your way of doing things, let's keep it simple, why complicate :) I'm using MIDI for my Yamaha PSR-SX900 and Yamaha P515. Thank you for sharing !
Thanks Dom. I do use Inst track with software sinths except when i m doing arrangements and final instrument is not finally defined. It is easy for an A /B comparison.
Hey, Dom. Love your videos and have learned a lot from watching them. Thanks for posting!
This video asks a question I have wondered about for a long time. I too come from the olden days when one tried everything one could find to save computer resources. And the reason you are giving here for performance gains is that using multiple instances of multitimbral plugins like HALion and/or Kontakt allows the spread of different instruments to multiple cores or, more appropriately, to additional single cores. However, in looking this up on the Steinberg and Native instruments websites it shows that a single instance of both HALion and Kontakt can indeed use multiple cores. So I wonder if this changes anything in regards to this specific reason you use multiple instances of HALion, etc.
Thanks again for the great work!
I have a sample server, where I use Vienna Ensemble Pro. In Pro Tools, they allow you to route Instrument Tracks to other instrument tracks' instruments. (In Cubase, this would be routing them to a Rack or Track Instrument.) Boy, this functionality would be so handy in Cubase, for those of use with a similar setup.
Sure, I _could_ just use a single box and do without the VEP, but... the sample box is kept extremely cool, which means its super noisy, and I prefer having it in a different room so it doesn't disrupt the composition process.
Very interesting, thanks for the clear explanation, Dom. I am also on the instrument tracks wagon :-)
I use Vienna Ensemble Pro for my orchestral projects. So, I use MIDI tracks. Thats the standard. However, when I'm not doing orchestral, instrument tracks all the way. Thus was an awesome video. Good confirmation of how I use all my DAWs. Now, you should check out Digital Performer. Lol...beast of a DAW!
In fact, a lot of users do not know the difference, thanks for your explanation.
I only use multiple outputs when I use groove agent easy to keep the drums separated, still nice to know what and why Didnt know about the activate menu I was renaming them manualy! thanks for that
Excellent video Dom, thank you. I would like to add 2 additional reasons to use midi tracks:
1. when we need to control plugins like PitchCorrect If you want to drive the voice with a midi keyboard you need to set pitchcorrect to external midi input and add a midi track which outputs to inserts>pitch correct and voila.
2. When you want to use midi sends to create a layer of different instruments without creating several instrument tracks and copying the same midi part several times in the project window. Instrument tracks do not have midi sends.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Very good!
Nice Tip Dom✌️
Hey, you have changed track colors, that's great! xD Much better )
Talking about MIDI, you can set one MIDI track to send signal to 4 VST synths at the same time and there are use cases when you want that but cloned midi clips.
It's really convenient to have Groove Agent as a VST instrument and export a kit's mix to Cubase. One drawback that I have found is that the audio channel for the kick, for example, cannot be "ungrouped" or moved out from under the VST instrument. This is inconvenient in the mixer if you have downstream group channels or FX channels associated with it and you would like to group them together in the mixer view. For example, say you add an FX channel with a sine wave generator to add a bit of energy to your kick, and then say you also add some parallel compression after that, then those extra channels cannot be next to the original kick audio channel in the mixer which could lead to a lot of scrolling or navigation in the channel settings window.
Hi Dom!
In the main, I prefer to use Instruments as Tracks, but the whole 'Track v Rack' approach depends on individual workflow preferences. I know that for opening old projects and multi-timbral MIDI files (especially old GM Atari ones) you would be faster using a rack instrument to load.
MIDI tracks by themselves can be used to record Sysex data dumps from external hardware, to control external FX units with MIDI (such as Reverbs and Delays) and for triggering Plug-ins like Stutter Edit, Vocal synth and Break Tweaker from Izotope (to name a few). In addition to all of this, I understand that you can even control a lighting rig with MIDI!
Thanks for the video :-)