Delta Speed SUPREMACY! ⚡ CarbonShrike Delta 3D Printer Speed Testing TO THE LIMIT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2024
- Holy smokes, ya'll. The things you learn when you sack up and go for broke! I wonder what'll happen when I take another 100+g out of the flying extruder system 😂
Actual fast PRINTING is coming, just waiting on a bigger hot end ... 😁
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Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
00:27 - Printer and Testing Overview
01:45 - Testing Begins: 800 x 200k
03:05 - The 1200mm/s barrier ...
04:35 - ... Broken at last
05:44 - Now this is just getting silly
06:17 - The actual limit
06:38 - Slowmo and Head to Head comparisons
07:33 - Charting and Discussing findings
Music credits:
Track: Max Brhon - Redemption [NCS Release]
Music provided by NoCopyrightSounds.
Watch: • Max Brhon - Redemption...
Free Download / Stream: ncs.io/MB_Redemption
Keywords and stuff: Kossel Delta 3D printer, Ultralight printer, CPAP cooling, Toolchanging, Bambu, FLSUN, V400, Super Racer, Voron, VzBot, Creality, Ender, extreme speed, Carbon X1, Klipper, RRF, RepRapFirmware - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![BOWKYLION - ส่วนต่าง (do it without me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7x-pwcMopzE/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m planning a pretty insane delta build. Insane in the sense that I’m insane for thinking it’ll work. BUT, part of the build is some aluminum corners that accept 2040 extrusion towers, and also have 12mm holes on either side that I plan on shoving some carbon fiber tubes into. I’ve calculated about 0.0056mm sway with this setup, maybe even less. I will also be cabling the corners down to the table to reinforce the top even more. Because of this, I think I can get away with 3 extra motors on top for 2 motors per tower, which may fix the issues you are having if you’d like to give it a shot. Shooting for a reliable 2000mm/s base print speed to put that core XY guy to shame and get deltas back on top ;)
Delta force is growing all the time!
Current max flow for high end hotends is around 116mm3/s for the goliath ( 100 usd ) and 118 mm3/s for the mosquito prime ( around 1000 usd and this is more of a claim in difference of a real test with the other hotend) from that we could assume, if we wanted the fastest xy speed using that volumetric flow as input so i would say for example in a 0.4 mm diameter nozzle at 0.2mm layer height Vin=Vout roughly and since we already have Vin
We could say that max xy speed for this max flow is
Xyspeed=Vin/(LH*LW) which would be something like 1450mm/s ish. It would be nice to see a test on a high output extrusion system and the delta printer to see at which point is still feasible to print.
what is your expectation for reasonable speeds?
I mean if lets say it can print 680mm/s but very sloppy then even if 1000 is possible, nobody wold print that fast.
(or am I missing something)
Great video! It's nice to see more delta content
Thanks! Glad to hear it. Deltas need more love and I'ma do my best 😄
came here to say this
Excellent work!
There are only 2 types of people. Some love delta, some hate it. Nothing between :D Personally, I love delta printers, even it is sometimes really hard to find what is problem and what limits it have. Currently got 3 deltas, building another one from scratch.
Built well, they are a joy to use. Built poorly, they'll punish you until you give up. I think if more people understood how to build deltas well, they'd be a lot more popular. I'm hoping to change that!
same here, I have 2x Atom2.0 printers.@@jamespray what are the crucial points at Deltas that need to be fixed?
Let's shake it!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL I had the exact same experience when I tested mine. Except my Super Racer limits were at 1000mm/s. So I was able to achieve 400mm/s at 120k. But 1000mm/s at 20k. I used the klipper macros from ellis3D’s tuning guide. What I found is that these limits drastically reduce the closer to the edge of the print bed that I print. I'd be interested if that's your experience as well? At the edge I can safely print 400mm/s at 30k, but at the center, 120k is no problem.
Speed limits drop off when the arm angle goes below 45 degrees, because that's when the steppers tip over to spinning faster than the commanded speeds. So yes, bed edge performance is a different story!
@@jamespray so the solution is longer arms?
@@ManjaroBlack That will reduce the effect, yes, though it comes with tradeoffs (including reduced Z).
Also, I wonder how input shaper may affect these limits? I honestly don't know if it would, but maybe it does?
Good question, not sure! I ran these tests with MZV 62 enabled
@@jamespray In my experience (not with deltas) input shaper helps you going fast as the machine doesn't have to fight against resonances
Danger !Danger will Robinson !
Makes me think if ordering 6x48v 2.8A LDOs was too much 😂
No way
What is the purpose of the springs on your effector arms?
It was a test to see if I could fix the lack of side-to-side preload on the Igus ball joints I was using in the build at time of filming. it didn't work, so I rebuilt the motion system not long after with different joints.
Might not be possible but having those giant tubes loosely hanging means that they will rock with each start and stop and probably add to quality issues & affect your max speeds. Maybe consolidate into one tube and tie down for weight savings and reduce the independent movements
Consolidating isn't possible as the tubes serve different functions (one for hot end, one for part cooling). While floppy, they're also fairly lightweight, so although I'm sure you're right that they have some impact on print quality, I believe it is very minor (print quality at normal speeds is very good). I am more concerned with the 320g flying extruder system, which is what the tubes and bowden are attached to. That doesn't move too much but it is attached to the carriages and is clearly moving around long after the effector stops moving. It's my next target for mass reduction.
@@jamespray You're probably right in the scheme of things but every gram matters when looking for speed & precision. I assume the tubes are delivering air to each part youre talking about. You could have a design that divides the air flow and throw a larger fan at the top of the intake.
But yeah there's probably bigger things to tackle at the end of the day.
@@Jonj57 I'm a borderline psychotic gram chaser, no worries there! The concern isn't air supply but control -- hot end cooling must be on whenever the hot end is hot (and it must be steady so the heater control isn't thrown off), but part cooling is only selectively active and may vary a lot (I even change the air supply based on what I'm printing). It would require active valving on the effector to run a single hose. I could size down the tubes from 19 to 15mm, though, and may eventually do that. As-is, though, the effector is only 60g (10g more than a Voron Tap kit by itself), and the moving mass besides the flying extruder is only 240g. If there's a machine of comparable build volume that's lighter than this, I'd like to know about it and see what I can learn!
@@jamespray Would be cool to change some of the spokes and use them as air pipe with a hole near their end feeding into a lightweight pipe or even a simple plastic bag bladder to air cooling inlet port.
Well I guess the carbon tube spoke pulling double duty as an air pipe part sounds cooler than the plastic bag bladder.
Mental
Wow, nice, im into the delta myself, having a Super Racer. My max it 500mm/s @ 60k accel at the moment (heavy head DD 373 grams) me subscribe
what for flow rate are you able to get from your hotend?
Welcome aboard! And that sounds like awesome performance, especially as it's with a DD.
@@jamespray I'm getting inspiration now 😁 just did 700mm/s @90000 accel (X and Y movment and a arc movement (i have e3d 0.9 high torque steppers). Next on the list is external fans, and a printed effector (the aluminum one from SR is like 75 grams) I can wait for your hotend upgrade review! im using a CHC pro atm with a CHT clone nozzle.
@@SuperKoe Sweet!
Do you think it can go faster?
The community has known for a long time - delta = fast. However, corexy and klipper are really taking the spotlight lately in terms of speed. Speed that is a fraction of what a delta can do, why?
I think it's partly optics (Voron, VZBot, etc. have popularized CoreXY and there's nothing wrong with that, while there's simply no "community delta" equivalent to those, yet) and partly that deltas can be very punishing/discouraging if they're not properly built and set up (and the inverse is also true: a properly built/set up delta tends to "just work" because there are fewer components to go wrong or wear out, which is probably they're more common in the industrial printer space). I also think that deltas had a big heyday some years back when people saw how simply they could be built, but this resulted in a bunch of terrible deltas being built and then abandoned and traumatizing their builders in the process. It's really not that deltas are more work to run than other types of printers, but they are very different from other types of printers, and poor advice / misunderstandings abound. I plan to do a video at some point that I hope can correct some of this and encourage more people to try the delta platform ... that will have to come after the next round of compressor stuff, though!
And yes, it could go faster with 48V and/or AWD, for sure. Those directions aren't in my near-term development pipeline, but I know a couple of folks currently experimenting with both. There are some exciting delta projects in the works right now -- more than there've been in quite a while!
@@jamespray OK you've got my subscription. I'm new here so not sure what you're doing on the compressor front but when I looked at your video it sounds like you might need a desk. How can I support you and contribute to the cause? Do you have a patreon?
@@raeliean Welcome aboard, then! Unfortunately, not much can change the desk situation except a bigger house, but I appreciate the willingness to help, a lot! I hate asking for anything, but I am actively looking at ways to do just that -- any way to help offset the time and money investment in my content would be great. I was thinking of selling some of my cooler designs on Cults, but I could also start a Patreon and make designs available there to subscribers. I was leaning toward the selling designs idea before, but the 3D printing community has a big stigma toward that and it does worry me. Patreon feels more accepted but also a bigger ask from folks. If you have any thoughts on the matter I'd absolutely take them into consideration!
@@jamespray I hate asking for help myself, if I'm being perfectly honest. So, this is my mindset; I am asking you for help. You make great content and do amazing research (that I don't have time for because of my own commitments), but nevertheless that is my ask from you, more content. I would gladly contribute some dollars to that cause, because I know it's time consuming. So, it's a mutual trade the way I see it. With all my patreon subscriptions I tell them the same thing - I don't want merch, I don't want stuff. I just want to see you do more of the things you do. That doesn't mean make videos I want to see, by all means Ive suggested plenty of videos and gotten denied - because it doesn't fit the theme or what it's after and that's OK! The goal is to support you as a person, because you're doing cool and interesting stuff. If I can help you do that cool and interesting stuff and make a great living, then it's a win-win, because there will be better content out there for me to learn from :). So, it's a no-questions-asked kind of support. If you want to make a patreon I'll be your first subscriber.
I mean, if you like an inherently inferior 3D printing experience, sure - get a delta. And then probably Duet electronics and use their RepRapfirmware.
Check, check, and check, but it's been six years of fun over here. I guess my inferior experience got lost in the mail? But if a bad delta touched you. I'm sorry. I know it happens.
Speed doesn't means quality.
That's true. This does happen to be a quality-oriented build, and prints extremely well at normal print speeds. It just happens that most of the work I did to achieve high print quality also contributed to raising the speed envelope. I cannot make any claims about the high-speed print quality at the moment because the extrusion system can't keep up with the rest of the motion system, but that is next on the list of changes, and then we'll see!
Not by itself, but the faster you can print a passable benchy, the closer printer tech will be to printing huge parts at quality in an hour or two.