That's easy. The Vault Dweller killed the master before he sent his mutants to those vaults. Fallout 1 has a bad ending where The Master's army invades Vault 13. Maybe that attack on Vault 13 happens simultaneously with 31, 32, 33. But it never happened because Vault Dweller saved the day.
@@andrewkang2429Not easy. The Cathedral and Vault 31, 32, and 33 are both located in Los Angeles California. He could have easily captured the vaults inhabitants with his nearby Nightkin army.
@@Abc1238u Invading Vault 31, 32 and 33 were on the Master's to do list. But the canon version of the Vault dweller was a Fallout 1 speed runner who beat the game in 15 minutes. Didn't even bother with the water chip. Just ran straight down to the Cathedral and killed the master with a speech check.
Why is it so hard for people to admit that the writers either didn't care and fucked up the dates or are intentionally trying to rewrite NV so they can massacre it in season 2...
@EnclaveEmily I don't know why Bethesda always gets a free pass, it seemed like public opinion was shifting after F76 and Starfield, I guess all they need to do is jingle those nostalgia keys and the shills get right back in line.
@EnclaveEmily the fact that they said that,just shows they don't care about original fallout lore really at all. I wonder if this show is just a setup for a fallout 5 on the west coast just so they can have a "blank slate" for their own stupid shit
@Monsoonthegoon Atleast they TRIED fixing every mistake they made on fallout 76 during its run, but i suspect if that game wasnt a live service they wouldve never bothered
@@Monsoonthegoon Well it’s simple, people don’t have standards anymore. I was literally called a right wing incel, just because I have common sense, and want good games, tv shows, and movies. Most people today are so soft and retarded it’s just insane. People need to stop getting on their knees for companies and many other problems. With all the damage the retarded consumers are doing, along with the companies, it may be hundreds of years or so until good movies, tv shows, and video games are made again, unless we can fix it sooner.
My though is the fallout community need to separate itself from the new fallout cannon and reestablish the old fallout cannon by ignoring the Bethesda slop and make fan games/mods that follow the old cannon. Edit:💀
Im doing that. Only im adding SFM animations to this as well. Already had 2 drones complain on a Fallout 4 vid i did where im picking up the torch for Mr Caption in terms of working on reviews and critique of Fallout under Bethesda.
So I actually have a history degree, and I have to say, the Rome comparison makes no sense. No one talks about the Fall of Rome the way the Bethesda apologists seem to be saying they do. The “Fall of Rome” is more of a historiographical framework than a singular event. No one uses the “Fall of Rome” to describe the beginning of the empire’s decline. And no historian worth their salt would put a specific year’s date on the “Fall of Rome.” Now, they might put a date under “Sack of Rome” either as 390 BC, 410 AD, 472 AD, 546 AD, 550 AD, or even 1084 AD or 1527 AD. But using any of those dates as a comparison would only reinforce the argument that Shady Sands was nuked in 2277, as a singular event. If what they were trying to communicate was the “Fall of the Republic,” then remember that the Roman Empire continued to exist long after its “Fall.” With the NCR being a full on nation state, they should have more of a standing government than just some raiders in an observatory. At best, they communicated poorly, and then doubled down on it to act like the fans just didn’t get it. And the saddest part is there are fans who have bought in to that gaslighting.
Very well said, I couldn't have put it better myself (so i'll probably yoink this comment for my review script lol). For real though, its baffling to me how people seem to misunderstand the basic concept of dating events to this degree. Also i'm sad now after seeing so many dates associated with the sacking of Rome, damn.
I agree. And it seems a lot of people do not understand what Bethesda just implied when they introduced the NCR refugees and the NCR remnants. This implies that the NCR fell in one fell swoop. If they meant that they were Shady Sands remnants, then they shouldn’t have attached NCR to it but even then, if the NCR still exists in the show, then it makes it all the more confusing as to why would there be remnants within the proximity if Shady Sands? Wouldn’t their remnants, I don’t know, move up to other territories of the NCR? Being NCR citizens that had been displaced and all?
@@EnclaveEmily Yeah, the basic issue still remains - by far and away the most natural way to interpret the chalkboard scene is "Shady Sands was destroyed by a nuke in 2277". The people who read it that way aren't being unreasonable. You CAN come up with some contorted interpretation where it doesn't mean that, but that's doing some extreme equivocation.
My biggest issue with the show isn't that the NCR died, its how it died. It didn't die because of its corruption or rapid expansionism or anything like that. They died because some vault tec corpo who somhow gets his hands on a nuke and blows up the capital. Thats like The Emperor from star wars dying because he sliped on the stairs. Also i guess everyone in the boneyard got abducted or something because that place is barren.
Yeah that's what gets me aswell, i'm not surpised that it would decline because of growing too fast too handle with mismanagement and corruption. But it's disrespectful to the fans and lore to make the reason pathetic, just a vault tec guy. The same thing with "Jake" Skywalker, he could of sacrificed himself going out fighting in a war but just overdosed on the force and that's it like a wimp. Dude respect our childhood characters & factions more...
Agreed. I could see the NCR dying due to its cities splitting up into becoming their own city-states because of the NCR’s state of affairs, or a civil war perhaps, but not like this. Hell if only Shady Sands got nuked, it shouldn’t have automatically spelled the death of the NCR, but since the show introduced the “NCR remnants”, they give the impression that the NCR died in one fell swoop when Shady Sands got nuked. Hell if Shady Sands was no longer the capital when it got nuked, then it makes even less sense that the NCR died altogether.
Yeah and I hate how the response to the NCR being nuked is the same old tired misused phrase "War never changes." There's a big difference between the NCR falling due to its own corruption, over-extension, and hubris, and being casually nuked by an outside-context who hates you that much. It would've been better for the NCR to split into city-states and brahmin baronies.
Is it just me, or do the Bethesda apologists all seem to really overstate how weak the NCR is in New Vegas? People in game talk about the problems that the NCR is facing, but nowhere do I get the impression that the NCR is on the verge of collapse. The NCR seems to be a country with political corruption and economic issues embroiled in a foreign war in the desert over energy resources- kind of like how the US was, at the time of NV’s release, a country with political corruption and economic issues embroiled in a foreign war in the desert over energy resources. But 15 years later, the US is still here, so it seems like 15 years after NV, the NCR should still be there.
The NCR was relatively weak 'IN VEGAS'. cuz they did not have the resources to reinforce 'en masse' from the home territory. Totally agree, Bethesda just do not get it what so ever.
Using the US as an example isn't very good considering 1 we are facing so many problems from all that spending in the war in the ME and also we aren't a country trying to build up after a nuclear apocalypse. All over new vegas you hear how things aren't looking the best for the NCR. Lakes and reservoirs running dry, possible food shortage, political corruption, and instability. The NCR even faces economic instability thanks to the brotherhood taking their gold reserves and causing their dollar to become almost worthless traders at the time of NV were changing back over to bottle caps but from various side missions having a NCR$ pay out elements of their government arsnt adopting the change. On top of that that add the ncr being unable to protect its trade routes from raiders would cause damage to trading between towns and cities. Take all that is listed, and you can see it was facing many hardships that were not helped with constant spending on the Mojave and loosing much of that money to the casinos instead of back into their economy along with water shortages and food instability that a fall had already started. Now people who live during a fall don't really feel the fall as it is usually gradual, which is probably why no one really noticed, that is why it usually gets labeled a fall after the fact.
The NCR's presence in Nevada specifically was a massive mess, but not the NCR in general. The Nevada Campaign is a mess because they're involved in a war that nobody really wants to fight, lead by a midwit general who's more concerned with glory than actually winning, and their trickle of supplies all come through a single winding road, leading to a poor supply situation. Even with that, they're still holding their own against the Legion. Heck, they're the only faction in New Vegas that the player cannot destroy no matter what you do; the worst you can do to them is drive them back to California with their tails between their legs.
The NCR had power, vehicles and roads all over California by the time of NV. Did the nuke have magical powers that makes infrastructure instantly vanish? Also where tf are all the super mutants? There was a super mutant minority from the days of the masters army that integrated into the NCR
@@Abc1238u whoa bro dont give them any ideas of what to ruin next everyone knows talking deathclaws and super mutants who actually act like.... people? Would be the top of the list of cool ideas to ruin, my bets on the super mutants tho it would be too easy to make a punching bag out of the "runt" and use him as comic relief for a season until he blows himself up making eggs of something
just because todd howard has a hate boner against real fallouts and anything that is better than their shitty games they didn't even bother googleing fallout lore NCR was an entire nation not a city so even if shady sands was nuked (and in wrong location) entire nation would NOT crumble into a small group of bandits led by a lesbian cult lady
Any supermutant in the show will be more akin to the idiots in the East rather than the smart ones West. Mostly because thats how Bethesda wants them to be like and because a character is only as smart as its writer...so take that for what you will.
Well in respect to Super Mutants. They were sterile and couldn’t reproduce. By the events of New Vegas, their numbers were already small and almost extinct. East Super Mutants were the result of Bethesda not knowing the lore. By right they shouldn’t exist there.
@@EnclaveEmily I belive everyone can like anything, I like all of them even tho I recognize new vegas as the best fallout. I just don't think its nice telling people they're wrong just because they like something you don't
@@randomj_904 That's the thing, nobody is saying that. (or at least, most aren't). The problem is that criticizing Bethesda's Fallout gets confused (deliberately) with criticizing people for having fun with it. Nobody is legitimately calling you a weirdo for going back to, say, Fallout 4 to shoot stuff and use mods. They are however calling you a weirdo for, say, trying to state that Fallout 4's storyline makes sense. (just examples) However, I don't believe you're being honest when you state your intentions, because I've read your other comments, and you're behaving as rabbidly as others tend to accuse "new vegas fans" of being.
the world where bethesda won license to fallout by employing some ultra shady tactics only to ruin entire franchise and nobody objected to it and those who actually did were called haters
@@vaughanphillips9316 truly a shill they both lost my respect years ago Bethesda doesn’t care about Fallout lore never did and they have a hard on for the Brotherhood of Steel. They don’t belong in West Virginia 30 years after the bombs dropped but there they are in Falllout 76
Vault 33 would've been cracked open like a walnut by the Children of the Cathedral. It would've been taken before the first game started. This show simply cannot exist within the established lore.
Most people didn't even play Fallout 1 or informed themselves about the actual lore, so for them this is like telling a strange fact, a lie even. They're too blind to look past the superficial "Fallout look" of the show.
They could have simply swapped the locations of Shady and the cathedral. Kinda always rubbed me the wrong way that the master struggled to find vaults when the vault tec corporation started in LA and should have everything including locations, moving Shady may have fixed the issue of why the mutants in fallout 1 struggled to find the vaults La is host to the vault tec building and therefore should have the location of every single vault in it, while ues the time could be prep we can't be certain and can really only estimate that it's because of them looking (also a base of super Mutants in death valley makes more sense for a hard to reach HQ that would be deadly to even get to) it fixes the issue while at the same time not really changing that much. The Boneyard could be more literal and just be a settlement in Death Valley, a place known for death and bones instead of "the bones of civilization"
@@cowbeanboi412 Swapping the cathedral and shady sands is a terrible idea and would also be a goofy retcon. It would be vault 13 in between the military base and the cathedral. Any vault tec building in LA would've been useless. Vaults, military bases and other hardened structures were the only prewar buildings to survive in any meaningful way, prior to Bethesda changing things. Vault 33 would've had the same fate as vault 17 by being so obvious.
B-but master T-todd said that NV still canon! That makes you wrong! It pains me that people think that this is a legit defence. It doesn't matter what they say, it matters what they show to us. Fallout show directly contradicts Fallout 1, 2 and NV. Just like any other Bethesda Fallout.
Seriously, Fallout 4 and 3 have various elements that are not consistent with each other. And even creetosis pointing out the show isn’t consistent with fallout 4. Beth canon is always a mess with horrific patch work, and TES only gets away with it because they have built in retcon devices
I don't understand why Todd and Emil even get so much benefit of the doubt. Why should we believe them? They've never given the impression they really care about any Fallouts not made by them.
Why cant people understand that we are criticising the story and what has been established with logical reasoning like anyone would with fiction like Harry Potter, if the author pulled this kind of shit their fans would be mad and confused because of the blatant contradictions and logical inconsistencies that the HP universe established
It may look nice to an outsider but in Fallout NV NCR land was running out of water and food. Shady Sands was the capital and the "fall" is referring to when NCR began to crumble.
@@zombiebadgr Your argument is identical to saying "US Involvement in WW2: 1941 (image of nuclear explosion)". This also isn't what outsiders are saying about the Fall, it's what the survivors of Shady Sands are teaching their kids.
I can't believe this is a discussion we even need to have. Looking at the show for two seconds and utilising your brain would have you come to the conclusion that it violates many rules and previously established parts of the setting. Moving Shady Sands to the complete other end of the state is not lore friendly. Ghouls needing a serum to not go feral is not lore friendly. Ghouls being able to shrug off multiple bullets like zombies is not lore friendly. Ghouls being able to survive being dug up, fed and given water once a year is not lore friendly. They need water to survive based on dialogue and quests from the first game. Suddenly, stealing that water chip from Necropolis is not so difficult a choice huh? Power Armor having thrusters is not lore friendly. Mr House and Sinclair being part of a conspiracy to end the world is not lore friendly. The Brotherhood of Steel proudly waving American flags despite being seccessionists and hating the US government for the crimes against humanity it commited is NOT lore friendly. How many examples do we need? This is coming from someone who actually enjoyed the show on its own merits. It's a decent show in my opinion but absolutely not lore friendly in the slightest. I swear none of these people have paid attention to Fallout 1 and 2.
Bethesda are morons. Especially with how to Brotherhood became the enclave with Caesar's Legion flavor cuz 'ALL THE LATIN' for names and whatnot. I do not recall all that many latin-named people in any of the fallout games for the Brotherhood... but I do recall a lot of latin-guys from New Vegas, and they wore red skirts.
I have to say it, but no one besides die hard or older fans played those games and that's not to put you down, but you gotta understand that even in 3 and NV did retconing to those to suit the games. Some of those are a little irritating, like the goul stuff, but things like shady sands are getting blown way out of proportions and only really recontextualizes the severity of NV's events, but it doesn't explicitly change or contradicts anything.
@@The__Furry_One no, you do not get to combine two games that happens on opposite sides of the US. Please tell what exactly is retconned in Fallout 3 and new vegas separately.
Some of these I agree with, but others are baffling. Ghouls aren’t surviving multiple gunshots, only one is. Ghouls aren’t “surviving” being dug up, only one is (probably due to that serum), ghouls still need sustenance to survive, hence why the ghoul eats the corpse of the guy who went feral. Although I did initially have issues with House’s stance in the meeting with the executives, it does actually line up with his certain prediction of a nuclear war in the near future. And I don’t think the BOS are waving American flags? I could be mistaken but the flag has the stripes of the flag but is missing the stars. Though I do agree that the show is not very lore friendly overall, even if I don’t mind how the decline of the NCR is depicted (outside of the date of Shady Sands’ nuking and the funny backtrack) and I think having vault tec be the architect of the Great War was much more interesting than China (and in some ways more logical too) since it ties in with the Enclave’s plan in F2.
Remember the showrunners and writer said they nuked Shady Sands just cause they were afraid they couldn't have the western desert theme they wanted if the city still existed.
The showrunners must be the most culturally illiterate dregs on the planet if they don't know about Texas and its association with Westerns and cowboys.
@VitaliyMilonov don't know which of their dumb interviews, but you can find it in Mauler's video on the Fallout show. Along with the quote "why make our characters awesome when we can make them dumb?"
The NCR is definitely dead by the end of Episode 8, too. It wasn't one city, it was all over California - and yet, nowhere Lucy and Max go, is there any sign of the NCR. There's only the Headquarters, and that is not occupied by NCR forces with an NCR government - it's occupied by a blood-drinker cult waving old flags around and led by "Flame Mother", a cult leader. When Max says "it didn't work out", he's NOT talking about JUST Shady Sands. It's the whole nation, and it's gone.
Show mindset is that if they kill capital of nation, then nation dead... which would possibly work for something like Caesar's Legion, or Ashur's The Pitt, but not the NCR. They have a line of succession, they are wider-spread, just cuz president dies dun mean nation dies cuz new president can be sworn in or a line of succession can take over.
My theory: Bethesda wanted to retcon New Vegas, saw the backlash and wanted to backpedal (as they do) but also saw all the social media engagement from people arguing about it, and so, they just let it stand.
That Bethesda and Todd wants to retcon not just New Vegas but all of the previous lore (just New Vegas in particular) is pretty much a fact. The backpeddling is most likely due to the fact that Bethesda got bought by Microsoft, so ultimately, he works for them. He gets too much heat and Microsoft could just buy out his stock and put him on the street. That means he has to keep any controversies under control and the money pouring in. That means walking that tightrope of retconning the lore while dealing with the backlash.
@@mgass1354I mean they stated that if something wasn't present in 3, NV, 4 and 76 or was said in those games then it wasn't canon. So for example stuff that isn't directly stated like Vault 0 etc isn't canon, but stuff like "Brotherhood in the MidWest who went rogue" is, canonizing _a part_ of Tactics and not the whole game. They did the same thing with the OGs
@@thefemboyslayer Except, that isn't true either. They backpedaled so fast from their tv show retcons that the Fallout Wiki on Shady Sands includes all of the lore from Fallout 1 and 2 WHILE claiming there were "revisions and retcons" to Shady Sands location. In other words, they want it both ways because must tamp down controversy. It's not canon if we didn't do it... oh wait... yes it is!
Nah. You’re assuming malice instead of negligence. Go boot up Morrowind, then Oblivion or Skyrim and you will learn quite fast how little Bethesda ever actually cared about lore and canon. Internal consistency was never their thing
Funny thing is, there is a common element in all of the defenses of this show. Every time they want to excuse a lore break or inconsistency they refer to something offscreen or write their own headcanon for it. It NEVER refers to what we see in the show or in the games. Ghoul medicine - "you never play as a ghoul, why should you know about every drug they use" BoS - "years have passed, so what if it changed a bit? It's natural evolution" Mr House - "doesn't matter what he was like in the game, all of that could have been him lying to the player" NCR - "it was already in a decline, it's nothing surprising that they have fallen" Vaults in the open - "Master was not omniscient, it's not strange that he could have missed a couple of vaults" And so on. They never are able to defend the show on its own merit, it always has to be some mental gymnastics.
The amount of brain damage coming from TV show apologists is crazy. Can we not just accept that the writers had a snafu, let them correct it, and move on? 💀
Like creetosis said, it's like doing storytelling for the actual storytellers. Glad I unsubscribed from Juice and MattyPlays. Can't wait for the honeymoon period of the show to be over.
It probably won't happen till Season 2, maybe 3. By then people will blame those future seasons for why the show is bad, not realizing that the foundation for failure was set in season 1. Saw this play out with the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. Thought TFA sucked when it came out. Predicted it would sabotage future Episodes. Fans hated The Last Jedi and blamed it for ruining the Trilogy when all the problems started with The Force Awakens.
💀 All of this could have been avoided if the TV so took place in the Midwest. Think about it Bethesda has their fallout franchise in the east coast when it comes to the games obsidian has the West Coast the TV show could have had the Midwest filling out the whole map almost
So...lore question. If the NCR fell before or soon after New Vegas, how did the West Coast Brotherhood survive? It's established in 4 that Arthur Maxson merged the West Coast, East Coast, and Outcast chapters into what we see in Fallout 4. But how did the West Coast Brotherhood live to see that if the NCR and Shady Sands weren't around to halt the Legion's advance?
@@kinagrill No no no, the East Coast Brotherhood is ALL of the Brotherhood now, Maxson merged them all into one group. The current BoS is made of all three of the chapters we've seen.
@@paragonpoints8420 >The east brotherhood is the brotherhood now Fat chance. The writers don't understand the point of the brotherhood but they did something worse, they made the brotherhood something they never were. Flying American flags and operating like a military is the highest form of heresy. They're soldiers larping as brotherhood. They're functionally the Enclave now.
@@RedStar441 It's still canon, though. I'm not commenting on whether it's good or not, I'm just saying that it IS the case, whether we like it or not. The problem here is that it can't be the case. If the NCR isn't there to halt the Legion, there's NO way the West Coast Brotherhood survives. But THAT can't be the case either, because we KNOW the show agrees with the Fallout 4 lore.
The West coast Brotherhood were in hiding in their bunkers due to losing in a war against the NCR. Best guess is they stayed hiding in holes in the ground.
JuiceHeada thumbnails are very clickbait, just look at his cyberpunk videos thumbnails, Panam looking really sexual in the thumbnails. Only why I bring it up because a lot of his videos is him rambling on same topic over and over again like a broken record, he relies on clickbait thumbnails and eye grabbing titles.
Another thing worth mentioning: the two farmers wearing black ranger armor pretty much confirms NCR is a remnant faction now, otherwise how would they have gotten ahold of such legendary equipment without NCR authorities coming to take it from them? Its meant to be a cool superficial callback to New Vegas but instead it just messes even more with New Vegas Lore.
That is like saying "How could the Vietcong have two M16s? America must be destroyed." The NCR can still be doing well in other regions and simply have lost one part of their former territory.
@@fire_towerWRONG The NCR Ranger Combat Armor is more akin to an F-4 Phantom than a standard issue service rifle during the Vietnam War. Only veteran rangers get issued such equipment. Basically the Tier 1 special forces group of the NCR. No fucking way some rando farmers who get easily wasted would be able to acquire 2 complete sets of the things. Going by lore of how skilled and capable veteran rangers are, if those 2 were _actually_ veteran rangers, *they'd be the protagonists.*
and that is another of bethesda's hateboners towards new vegas they didn't even bother googling ncr rangers it was a pretty important that entire faction of desert rangers joined NCR, they even had a giant fucking monument to the event in front of mojave outpost as far as fallout 1 Tycho - one of possible companions was a desert ranger rangers having territory from nevada to arizona but one city in wrong location being nuked means ENTIRE FUCKING NATION STOPS EXISTING
@@DJWeapon8 the ncr doesn't care about equipment, if the two dudes scavenged it off of a rangers corpse the ncr wouldn't even know let alone care as we can see in new vegas where they actively support mercy killing their own troops and never retrieving the body's in nelson, they also dont try and recover ranger morales' corpse even though there are 2 ncr troppers (or rangers depending on player level) less than 100 meters away
There is a citizens test in Freeside for food rations in which you are asked what the capital of the NCR is. The answer is Vault City... Nah, I'm messin with you, its Shady Sands. Of course it is.
On the point of Vault City, if the NCR collapsed then plenty of cities could very easily petition VC for membership and protection, and not become raiders.
People that claim to be a fan of some work of fiction, but dont give a shit about the lore and history to it really irk me. I'm a fallout normie, i watched the show to see what the hype was, considered it mid at best, noticed a bunch of issues with out knowing much about fallout, and decided I wanted to know a bit more about the games history, and knowing what I know makes it worst cos the show has really contradicted a bunch of shit by the sounds of things. State of entertainment folks. Dont ask questions, just consume product.
I really liked the show's characters and plot, the lore is horrendous, but i can't say i like it because the Vegas Cultists will jump me saying im a Jewish bethesda psyop or some shit like that
@@manz7860You can literally fuck in every fallout game, including Vegas, hell, you even are able to buy condoms on 2, just say you are a grifter who never played the games dude
So Todd came in and clarified that the nuking of shady sands came after the events of FNV, but that chalkboard was vague as it didn't add a date below the nuke drawing, so either the show makers meant to use the word "decline" instead of fall or they saw the backlash and are trying to backpaddle. I still find it dumb as hell that in the 15 years of New Vegas to the show that the west coast wasteland completely went to shit and that the NCR remnants didn't try to hold onto their power, they had around 170,000 people, shady sands was 34,000, sure it's a major loss and we know that things weren't doing so hot from dialogue in FNV, but having it completely collapse besides a singular location that numbers around 100 is dumb. edit: Correction, it was actually 700,000 not 170,000, making the fall even more unbelievable.
You know, I don’t think a lot of the newer fans really grasp what the NCR was. It was an honest-to-goodness nation-state capable of projecting military power beyond its borders. They had trade and industry. It makes no sense that it would just cease to exist because it’s capital was nuked. But if you’re thinking of the NCR like the Fallout 4 factions, then suddenly it might kind of make sense. The Institute, the Brotherhood, the Railroad- you destroy their main base, that’s the end of them. Even the Minutemen apparently just disappear when Quincy is destroyed, hence you having to rebuild them if you choose that route. Let me be clear that this is a criticism of Fallout 4, not a defense of the way the show handled the NCR.
@@tlucas7031 makes sense. Bethesda is retarded enough to make this kind of mistake after all and I bet the people who do defend this shit despite having played new vegas are the types who weren’t so keen to details.
A theory I've seen mentioned was that the NCR is alive and well in the North, but left the South due to the nuking and desertification (which apparently got a mention in New Vegas, most notably by the OSI, I personally don't remember as it's been a while since I did that quest). Even that is still a major and sudden fall for the NCR. Still it's about the best explanation I've come across short of just removing the show from the lore.
@@PrivateDoge My point exactly, even if it WAS their capital, there's no way the fall of ONE city/town could cause the complete collapse of an entire nation of that size in a mere 15 years.
💀 How the hell do you retcon your own video? First saying that Shady Sand didn't fell in 2277, it just began to decay then to say that a calender stops before the date of the decay. Why would it stop if it's just the beginning of a period of decline and not an outright fall? This is completely absurd Also based OWB gameplay
I mean maybe at a far stretch, the library stopped receiving funding in 2277 as part of the decline of Shady Sands? The problem is there wasn't any obvious signs of this in the show, at least none I know of.
@@ronaldsrod Juicehead does a lot of FO4 mod reviews, and among those he's definitely covered mods that replace the assault rifle and combat rifle, with more sensible, lore friendly weapons. For example, he reviewed WARS about 2 months ago as of this reply.
''No point in obeying lore and good stories in the 'Great American Storybook' - People just gonna tear the pages out and make paper aeroplanes with them.'' Normal people can't make sense outta storywriters who have that lack of ethics and morals.
he said something so stupid he unintentionally summed up bethesda games to the letter established lore? who needs it writing a good story and main quest? yeah right let's just make things happen for no reason in the most idiotic way possible AND THEN people just "tear out pages and make paper airplanes with them" 100% agree skyrim, oblivion, failout 4, fallout 3 they all have moronic main quests and every single time people either ditch the main quest or rush it to be done with it or ignore the game completely and install bajillion mods congratulations emil you were completely wrong and absolutely right at the same time
There is a lot wrong with the series just from what I've seen in videos like this one. Let's start and end with the location change of Shady Sands because that is the crux of the entire retcon. Everything AFTER this retcon in the show is merely a continuation of the destruction and rewrite of the lore. In Fallout (the OG), you leave the vault and find the farming community of Shady Sands. You get a quest to rescue Tandi from raiders which you do because it is confirmed in Fallout 2. In Fallout 2, you learn that Tandi grew up, formed the NCR, established Shady Sands as the capital and was even a President of the NCR. New Vegas then expanded upon the role of the NCR in the wasteland. And here, let's be clear, the NCR expanded from its capital in California all the way out to NEVADA and was strong enough to fight and win against all of the raider factions, super mutants, creatures, deathclaws, etc. Heavy losses at Hoover Dam might have weakened the NCR, but, it did...not...fall. So, the crux; all three games are connected BY Shady Sands. When Bethesda changed the location, they retconned everything associated with that one little farming community. The "how" is simple. Shady Sands wasn't in LA. You never went to a Shady Sands in LA. That was the Boneyard. The Shady Sands 200 some odd miles northeast of LA is not just gone; it now never existed. If that Shady Sands never existed, then Tandi never existed. If she never existed, the NCR is never formed in the first place. There NOW has to be all new lore put forth to explain HOW the NCR formed, HOW it expanded out from CA to Nevada, HOW everything that happened but got retconned now happened by in a different way with different people. That is a retcon of the lore. Todd has stated that he was consulted with the ideas for the show, thus, this retcon was all Todd.
First of all, it’s set 15 years after 2281, so ANYTHING could happen. That includes the deterioration of the NCR as it has been confirmed as that by Gods and Nolan, however the nv stans cannot get it through their heads via the sheer copium required to deal with the moving of Shady Sands. Yes the NCR may be militarily weakened after 4 brutal years of the mojave campaign by 81, but you’re forgetting the political result, and with the monopolistic caravan compaines, arms merchants and Brahmin barons essentially owning congress and influencing Kimball to kill off Tandis dream. For the people nothing much can be done, but after possibly finding out the solid proof (heartaches by the number and other reasons too like the sheer fact no good news comes back from the campaign out east) could mean more riots and political groups forming that want to splinter off etc. If you play the hoi4 owb mod like Emily plays here, you’ll know about the shitty political state the NCR is in even around 2275. So therefore after the unknown fate of the NCR, the crumble could still happen even if they did win in 2281, as the republic will no longer have the legion to be an external threat as they either retreat to flagstaff or are halted at the Mojave Outpost. This means that the people will either celebrate before looking for internal threats (ie the monopolies stripping rights away) or immediately overthrowing kimball for losing g the war by being nepotistic and corrupt (can be done by a vote of no confidence or coup etc) The retconn may piss off the sticklers of the community, but it does allow for the story to become more local to LA, after all a lot of new locations pop up, just cause we don’t see the gun runner factory with a moat of goo around it or the blades doesn’t mean it’s a shit show. Better yet that stuff took place over 130 years ago by 2296. Why don’t we see the followers uni, cause it got blown up because the new lore retcon would suggest the followers would put their uni in shady as it looks well done up in the flashbacks. The thesis is that shady should be in Death Valley as the sacred holy book the fallout lore/bible would say. And the Bethesda bad crowd would be satisfied, yet still find nitpicks to hate the show on. The antithesis is that if it were, the fallout to show would not be in LA so no cooper Howard or Lucy and it would be a BoS show which would likely fail cause the show was most likely watched by non fans who don’t fucking know about fallout or it’s lore. Sacrifices therefore had to be made even if it would piss off an obnoxious crowd of new vegas bootlickers.
I like how the people that defend the writing of this show seem to not have watched the show. You really should pay attention to the first 10 minutes of episode 4 fella :>
@@EnclaveEmily So what, Ghouls have to use Rad-Away to keep them going feral, not the worst retcon out there, just some of us can put up with shit while other cannot. Besides, the point of the Roger scene is to show the consequences of Lucy destroying Coopers Rad-Away tin. I've seen the show, what makes us different is that I don't hate on a show because it makes a change (shady in LA) that now has just become cherry picking on your side. If the reason you really dislike the show, is because they didn't do it the exact way you wanted it to play out, then you shouldn't be worthy to criticise it.
No no, that's not what I'm referring to. The show tells you when the nuke happened. Also, keep making up reasons as to why I dislike it. I'm sure it'll go great
@@nottodaywillj2723 Maybe you just skipped over my OP. Go back and read it. ACTUALLY read it. Changing the location of Shady Sands wasn't just some minor "oh well" change. That change literally makes every NCR plot in every game AND the tv show now have to get new lore and until it gets new lore the NCR doesn't exist. The NCR in the series doesn't exist. But, they are in the series you say? Yeah, they say it exists but don't explain HOW it exists now that they retconned Shady Sands. Oh, I see, it's just magic, like what Bethesda says holds up that BoS blimp... they literally say "mysterious technology"... aka magic. It's magic the NCR is in the show. But but you can take a change and not hate and and... but Todd can't. Mr. "It just works" Howard says anything he needs to at the time and the fanboys are all "omg Todd said it so it is gospel". Todd has had a craw in his shorts with New Vegas and the OG fans because we think his fpshooter/looter Fallout sucks. He still isn't over Obsidian's New Vegas being considered the best Fallout game to date so he is just going to retcon as much previous lore as he can.
I keep seeing people say moving Shady Sands isn’t a big deal like having it basically next door to the the Masters Cathedral wouldn’t completely change the lore as we know it
Finally a voice of reason. This show is not good as a Fallout, neither as its own thing. But somehow people are willing to die on that hill and pretend that this show is amazing, it's just hilarious at this point. 💀
Juicehead? Making lazy and bad content? No way. Im totally flabbergasted. He's been doing crappy fallout content for years with the most clickbaity clickbait thumbnails that any human has ever seen.
I'd never purposefully and knowingly watched a Juicehead video. After watching the show I thought I was experiencing a stroke with people defending the lore breaks and crappy writing. In a search I saw this Juicehead video and thought, "Wow, this channel sucks." Then another video of his talked about how good 76 is. At that moment, I just realized Juicehead is some sort of Bethesda lemming.
I guess that according to the show enjoyers Japan just stopped existing after the Oppenheimer and LeMay related incidents and was an empty wasteland for decades to come with no signs of a major civilization (especially near Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Tokio)
I really hate people that argue because a setting has instances of bad writing and absurd events that people should be alright with more bad writing and absurd events. Why should we be alright with it? Why shouldn't we complain about it? Why should we want more bad writing, more ridiculous canon, more awful stories? And then, at least where I frequent, they hit you with the flippant, "I'm just tired of hearing it, bro", excuse, like the story needs to be garbage and drive the likes of me off because they can't avert their eyes from a forum post. It's just so, so incredibly stupid, it's hard to believe people actually think that way, and yet here we are. I want to die.
I’d like to add that the problem here too is that a lot of people don’t understand that this instance of bad writing basically deletes or severely breaks the events of a game which is regarded by many as the favorite or the best out of all the fallout titles.
All those Bethesda copes sure remind me of when people were coping that The Last Jedi had some obscure, elaborate commentary instead of it being a genuinely badly made movie; "Luke tossing the lightsaber away is genius characterisation, it's not the movie saying 'f you' to fans expectations", it very clearly is.
The problem is that Bethesda never understood Fallout in the first place. Great you enjoy those games.. Yes they are fun but I have to say.. Bethesda's Fallout sucks. That's just how it is.. They destroyed the entire fallout lore and rules within that universe. All of a sudden vault tech started the war, the BoS are now white male Christian bullies and the NCR are basically raiders. You will hear that more if you talk to original fallout fans.. Bethesda never understood Fallout or it's mentality. They think that's its about the 50s in a apocalyptic world but it's actually about the 50s world that was destroyed in an ultimate world conflict and mad max arose from that world. It makes no sense that people wear fine outfits in this world because they don't know a THING from the old world. But they don't need the original fallout fans because they're fallout is for the masses.. Not for fans. It's not an anti war game anymore.. It's an modern anti Capitalist game in every aspect. The creativity difference between Obsidian and Bethesda.. Just in the Conversation aspect is so enormous that it's almost laughable that people actually think fallout 3, 4 and 76 are good fallout games with a good story. Basically in every fallout from Bethesda you need to find a family member.
It’s funny because Bethesda Shills can’t even remember any good writing in Bethesda Fallout. The story is so bad and boring and even the side quests. all they do is turn off their brain and shoot things because the writing is so bad. Compare that to F1 F2 FNV where the story/quests are good, you can turn off your brain and shoot things while enjoying a good story. Interplay/Black Ilse/Obsidian Fallout Writing is like Lord of the Rings Game of Thrones and Harry Potter books. Bethesda Fallout writing is like Dragon Evolution. All Bethesda has is the title of the Franchise thats it.
@@lonely_hermit No we dont. We hammer it into Microsoft they screwed up buying Bethesda. It was a toxic purchase and that Fallout needs to be taken from them. The Fallout show is not canon to the games no matter how hard the Drones claim it is.
You are correct that Bethesda never understood why the fans of Fallout 1 loved the game. All they knew was that there was a built-in fanbase and with fpshooter/looters getting popular, they could "update" Fallout into that. This is why they made 3 as they did, then focused on gunplay with 4 and they dropped all pretense with 76. The OG Fallout was more about the world, the characters, the entire "you thought you were a hero? No. This world has no room for heroes" that gets rammed home to the player. The last is the ending that slams it home to the player. It turned everything a player knew from other RPG games onto its head. You weren't the chosen one. You weren't the hero getting the hero's ending. The world of Fallout had no room it because it was a brutal world.
How an entire nation, that's what the NCR is by 2281 doesn't exist in the show? Todd made the fall of shady sands in 2277. Exclusive to retcon New vegas and seems like FO1 & FO2 too Where's Junktown, Dayglow, broken hills, Modoc, the Hub, the stunning and beautiful *Arroyo,* *Vault City* in the show? There's 0 mentions Why everyone in the west coast is living like Mad Max characters?!?!? When by 2281 mostly of the west coast was living like it was the pre-war world again houses, Jobs, medicine, schools, security, actual money instead of bottle caps (you don't use bottle caps in Fallout 2 btw) Thanks to the NCR btw I don't need to make a big text explaining . They didn't even try to hide the lore butchering. Everything we did in FO1 & FO2 seems pointless now I don't even like to think what Bethesda going to do w/ the Legion, the wild tribes and what they going to do w/ the smart-friendly super mutants... My dude Marcus... 😢
💀the constant stabs at new vegas really paints a picture of just how insecure this show's writing is. i haven't even played that much of New Vegas and even i felt like the show was murdering and molesting its corpse in front of me, like stop, you have a problem fallout show
They absolutely made a huge mistake and tried to save face by backpedaling. I wonder how they'll do this as their 2nd season is likely already past the writing phase and into filming and editing, as they were approved for a 2nd season right after the 1st was approved.
Either TH-cam or enclave Emily is censoring/shadow banning my reply to your comment on her video so I’m gonna try to reply to your comment on that other video in this comments section instead. why do you think the bugthestards who like the show and “SlopOut 4” are “socialists/communists”? So far I’ve ONLY SEEN cringey little rightwing (censored) praising the show, who get triggered when you point out how they’re literally TO (censored) to grasp the complex thematic through lines of the series, which is why they think the rabid anti-communism shown as a characteristic of pre-war America isn’t an obvious satire of low-IQ, dogmatic right-wingers who get triggered at anything remotely leftwing and label it as “communist”. Surely you wouldn’t fall into that category right? You’re not a (censored) Bethesda tourist who’s legitimately to (censored) to realize that the REAL fallout games MAKE FUN OF people who cry “communist” as a way to dismiss those they disagree with, right? Surely you’re a real fallout fan who understands that since its inception, fallout has critiqued the thought process of McCarthyist anti-communism as being a (censored), delusional, (censored) and irrational political position, and surely since you’re not a bugthestard tourist, you understand that critiquing McCarthyism is not the same thing as “defending communism” right?
I’ll just treat this show as if it were an alternate earth and that the ncr is still alive with its shitty problems in Obsidian’s Fallout earth. Bethesda just hates FNV man 😢.
@@EnclaveEmily Im really on kool aid right now with the NCR getting nuked off screen but this whole thing also feels like Fallouts 1 and 2 were also retconned. Im really starting to see this as Bethesda trying to grab on to whatever love that still belonged to the fallout games Obsidian had a hand on.
The biggest problem I have is this idolizing of the BoS. Bethesda keeps proping them up like a standing nation, when they were always seen as reclusive and isolationist. They don't have the resources to do anything big as seen in Bethesda titles. Just look at their size. Who are feeding these people? In F4 you are charged with securing farms for them, but that is not nearly enough, and you aren't going to get enough food without willing farmers. In the NCR it shows that they have logistics for food and supplies. It is so big that they have bureaucracy and problems in dealing with supplies or the most common in NV is the camps are too isolated for them to reach them. They don't just have no supplies and then you have to strong arm some peasants into giving the BoS a farm of corn that will give their soldiers a net zero nutrient value.
if bethesda wasn't just going for brand recognition and emil wasn't their lead writer,the bos would have been an extinct faction by now,and realistically they would,but no,the bos is bethesda's IDOL
The only way I see the “the NCR is still around” cope working is if the people who defend the lore inconsistencies would point out that “the show implies that Shady Sands was no longer the capital even before it got nuked”, because this would mean while it would have been devastating to lose the former capital, it would at least show that the NCR is still alive. That way, the events of New Vegas could still take place but it does break a lot of the established lore as a consequence in order to be able to make the claim that the NCR is still around a reality. I would rather that Bethesda comes clean and say “yes it is a retcon” or "yes we fucked up the dates." Although there’s still the NCR remnants issue. It would be understandable that by the time the show takes place, we would see an NCR in a state of decline, not dead, just severely weak and dysfunctional, but because of the NCR remnants, it seems to imply that the Republic fell altogether when Shady Sands got nuked. At the end of the day, trying to defend the lore inconsistencies just brings us at a circular argument hahaha.
Likely the 2nd season is already written and being filmed since they were pre-approved for a 2nd season before the show ran. We'll see what happens. I'm not liking this so far. Fallout is already dead, but the more Bethesda and their pals beat it the more consoomers come running to soyjak at their latest slop they released for $60-70 plus microtransactions.
heres a funny real life story that happened to me yesterday and sums up this whole fallout series as a whole. a friend chatted with me about how great the series was and when asked what they liked about it they didnt say it was the story/ writing/ plot/ characters or in series game refferences it was the actor playing "the Ghoul". when i asked for more details they couldnt provide any and when asked if the series stayed true to the games they said they never played any of the games. this for me says it all, it isnt a show for fans its a mixture of propaganda for Bethesda and something for the GOT moms. to prove this i even asked if they would be watching the new Nuka Breaking episodes on YT and they didnt have a clue what i was talking about and THAT is the real Fallout series not this amazon grabage
Isn’t this just gatekeeping? Why decide who gets to enjoy Fallout and how? People can be fans for any reason-they don’t need to pass a fan purity test. Let’s not narrow down our community with unnecessary barriers. Everyone should be free to enjoy the series in their own way.
@@fistonly if you're only watching the show for "The Ghoul", just watch the first season of Westworld. The directors are the same and the Man in Black is the same character but actually good
@@fistonly Gatekeeping is good and necessary. Don't like it? Too bad, because I'm beyond tired of seeing the things I like destroyed chasing mass appeal.
@@fistonlyand that’s fine but there needs a healthy balance of being able to keep the niche, a niche. This kind of thing is what derailed star wars from being one of the most prestigious, talked about franchises into one of the most “meh” titles out there right now. It just doesn’t carry the same weight it did when it was still a niche. The difference here is that people who came to star wars when it was fresh and fallout was that it was mainly the story that attracted people to Star Wars and as a result, developed a fanbase that was passionate enough to even help grow the lore and stick to it, whereas for Fallout, it’s attracted people who enjoy the aesthetics (and at times, because of the Ghoul), all while sloppily handling lore and not just any lore, mind you, it’s lore surrounding involving a fan favorite game and a fan favorite faction apparently being killed off offscreen.
That character assassination of Mr. House in this show is grounds enough to throw away this stinker. I don't even really like House and even I know that wasn't him I saw in the show.
@@corypowercat7277 these ppl just ragebait each other bc they found their tribe and it makes them feel good. one missing date on a chalkboard and they lose their minds and start insulting people involved with the show. these ppl don't care about Cain or what anyone else involved in creating the games they liked are saying.
This is how you get away with bad writing. Saw it with The Force Awakens. That movie had a lot of problems and instead of seeing problems and the obvious fact they had no plans. Fans assumed they had a plan and that all these problems were mysteries to be solved. Rey isn't super powerful do to a rushed and haphazard script writing process. She must have some important lineage, or origin story that explains this unexplained jump in powers and abilities. I'm getting the same vibes from the Fallout show. Superficially looks really good. Knows how to tickle the fans right in the nostalgia. This manages to trick people into liking what is frankly a garbage story. I predicted Star Wars Episode 8 and 9 would suffer story wise due to Episode 7. I have a feeling future Seasons of Fallout will not be so well received by fans.
Gotta love how about half of the arguments is "Wait until Season 2" as if they had a real thought-out plan for the NCR and not just backtrack/damage control via ADR after the backlash. Also, low key admitting retcons with them moving Shady Sands.
This show is looking like The Force Awakens of Fallout. Superficially looks good. Knows how to dish out the member berries, and fans are just eating it up, but the story just sucks. Characters make no sense and are diven by the plot instead of the characters driving the plot. A plot that relies way too much on coincidence. The show butchers it's own setting and lore. The destruction of the New Republic in The Force Awakens was done just so they could go back to Empire vs Rebels. The New Republic just disappears after Starkiller blows up their capital. For some reason the NCR and all the civilization they built up just disappear after Shady Sands is nuked. They did this because they wanted that desolate wild wasteland, as seen in the first Fallout game. What makes this so much worse was that they could have set the show anywhere else like Texas, or New York where they shot the show. Had their zany wasteland adventures and be consistent with the lore. Back in 2015/16 when I would criticize The Force Awakens a common retort I got was to wait for Episode 8 to come out. It would fix all the issues, I mean answer all the mysteries. I predicted Episode 8 and the rest of the trilogy would suffer because of TFA. Boy was I right. Just like The Force Awakens the people who made the Fallout series don't seem to have a plan at all.
I think the fact that people are calling this show absolutely amazing shows how low our standards have become regarding video game to film adaptations. I suppose it could have been a lot worst... but it also could have been a lot better...
The true canon is that everything past Fo2 is all a pskyer vision bestowed upon world-renowned scientist and learned man Mr. No-Bark Noonan. We simply have the honor of witnessing it.
also know i notice the enclave(that got destroyed 500 times) has more chance to come back in the series/games than the fucking new california republic i mean, i love the enclave but this is bullshit
Fun fact the first 3 Minutes of thr show are literally Impossible to happen, thr nukes dropped in the morning on the east... Why the heck is it day time in L.A
The fact Todd Howard said the show is cannon shows the guy has no spine. I can only hope its going to fall on its face so hard that Todd is like the show is an alternative time line
Something that really bothered me is how the show made everyone in California either savage or retarded, although I suppose that's not entirely unrealistic. What I mean is that between the end of Fallout 2 and the beginning of New Vegas, NCR occupies nearly all of pre-War California, even pushing into Oregon, Baja, and obviously Nevada. Fallout (2024), on the other hand, makes it seem like NCR was exclusively Shady Sands, bolstered by the fact that there are entire Enclave laboratories on the surface, not to mention the impossible existence of the Brotherhood of Steel so deep into NCR, which is another bathtub of worms entirely. And yet, in a few short years, every citizen has reverted into a dirty, uncivilised raider. You can get away with this in something like Fallout 3 and 4, to a short extent, but it makes no sense when you're returning to an established society. This show racks my brain. Nearly every outcome just feels so cheap and unrealistic. It's decent overall, but the only reason audiences act like it's anything more than that is because American television has become starved recently, similarly to films.
Apparently the show runners didn't like the whole post post apocalypse thing about rebuilding civilization and wanted the world to be savage and wild. If they wanted that why didn't they just make the show anywhere else. The ncr built civilization in the west. They could've just stayed east like fo3.
Well you see,this is because its being written like fallout 4,all the factions have a main base that when destroyed leaves them completely nonexistant as a faction afterwards. EXCEPT the minutemen. As they are a fallback faction lol
One thing I find annoying with bethesda Fallout is that it seems bethesda can't get out of their heads the idea of having fallout be some mad max esque perpetual wasteland There is no real rebuilding of civilisation, and whenever it does happen, it always seems to fail. For some reason, it seems bethesda can't get past the idea that Fallout is a constant wasteland of raiders and anarchy, and, imo, it seems to be affecting the writing of recent fallout content for the worse
Fruad Howard, "I made sure the script matched the Lore." Give me a break. Bugthesda has always had it in for New Vegas given they screwed Obsidian Devs out of their bonuses by bribing Game Juornos to make sure FNV didn't make the Meta Critic Clause in their Contracts.
Mkmantis is another braindead shill. But at least Juicehead don't get involved with drama, he is just a consoomer shill, while the other one is a two-faced discount Oxhorn.
This show just sounds like a hodge podge of different pieces from each Fallout game thrown together with no cohesiveness. Wouldn't be suprised to find out 'The Master' is still alive. Which begs the question, where are all the super mutants?
@@dangi6516 Not many, a handful. And they were barely tolerated, legally. Maybe 5% of SMs are sane. The rest are basically just raiders and by the show's time, 2296, most of them will likely have been killed off by the NCR and Brotherhood. I wonder if Jacobstown is still around.
@@Tattletale-Delta I have to correct you here, what was left from Masters army either left California or join NCR . Super mutants are not barely tolerated, thanks to the NCR constitution, racism against non-humans is prohibited and punished (the further from the capital, the less respected, but still valid), that's why dwarfs, Ghouls, Slags and Super mutants are full citizens of NCR . In the west only the 2nd generation is aggressive, but they listen to the 1st generation so there is no problem. And NCR wouldn't kill super mutants, most SMs who are citizens of NCR are miners or soldiers, two very useful professions .
@@EnclaveEmily yes, I mean that in the show, the area where Shady Sands was located would ironically work better as a callback to F1's Cathedral, since Shady Sands (the real one we know since 1997) was way up north and closer to Vegas, which would make tons of sense on how Hank managed to reach it on foot without dehydratating and dying of a stroke in that PA in the last scene of ep.8, instead of walking from LA/Boneyard to Vegas, which pose the question: how much stamina do he have !?
What really set my autism meter off is the fact that Shady Sands is located within the ruins of LA in the show but for over 25 years now, we've known that Shady Sands was located hundreds of miles away from LA based on in-game maps from Fallout 1 & 2.
The also got the time of the bombs wrong. According to BETHESDA lore from fallout 3 and 4 They fell during the morning on the east coast. On the west Coast they would be still sleeping or at least getting up. Yet they had a whole party. Also the distance of the detonation is too close to the party. No one would survive. They even said that just before the bombs scene in the show itself.
What gets me, is that dates aside, it makes what you do feel hollow. Fallout 1 and 2, you helped build up the NCR, made it a place where California and the West Coast would be free from the turmoil and violence of the wasteland. Your efforts were to stop the Unity and Enclave, but you did more than that. Seeing the NCR erased makes what you did feel much more hollow. And if New Vegas was destroyed, then it doesn't matter what ending is canon, if it all got wrecked, who cares, all you did was for nothing. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make NV non-canon, it makes it pointless.
You would think a chalk board about the history of shady sands would have the year the city got destroyed(assuming that the writers/showrunners aren't implying that the fall/destruction of shady sands was in 2277). The chalk board being "vague" is just dumb. That darn chalk board is probably one of the biggest blight on the show, imo.
Oh that's the thing, they're not vague at all, they just don't understand how charts work. Because if after watching episode 8 of the the show, you think "when did they say Lucy's mom died?", you realize they were deliberately trying to make New Vegas impossible, but panicked when they got backlash.
panic, pure and simple. It's obvious they want to retcon it to be given freedom of what to do, but realized that the backlash was so strong that, with people now going to play the games, many for the first time, it won't be long before a lot of people realize the slop, and will stop consuming it. Consider the Fallout 76 attempted lore breaks with NCR Ranger Armor, or what happened to Starfield. They want people to keep consuming their slop, but they know that's less likely if they mess with it too much. So they give the bare minimum to let the lobotomized seals keep clapping.
@@Jimboh1637 Todd has never cared about lore or continuity. Nobody at Bethesda does. "We won't be beholden to something somebody wrote twenty years ago" was a line from Pete Hines when asked about how and why the BOS were included in Fallout 76. He can say it's still canon, but that's meaningless with his track record on lore.
lol the chalkboard prop is the biggest issue? You realise that the games have always pushed the idea that every source is either inaccurate and/or biased, etc? The board fits in perfectly with the games. Why are people suddenly expecting this to be a perfect source?
Hollywood tries to adapt something, shits on stablished canon thinking that they can do better than a lowly video game backstory, then they go on to prove that they don't have half the talent that those video game writers had.
You see that a lot in the rare cases video games are adapted to TV/movies. Movies and shows don’t really have lore or world building to the same extent. The Devs at black Isle created an amazing world that in my honest opinion even Bethesda has struggled with in their 3 entries to the series(3,4,76 I count NV as an extension of what BI did)
Nobody can really argue though that this isn't one of the best video game adoption out there though. NV Fanboys have been complaining over nothing when the show very clearly shows its love for it. They're literally setting up an entire season around it.
@@PepicWalrus I can understand the frustration of Fallout 1/2/NV's fans, the NCR got destroyed because of a reason that had nothing to do with all of the plot points that were set up in previous games (let's be honest here, the reason was pretty bad). The Master missing vaults in L.A right under his nose, the confusion with the dates and the nobody knowing what the "fall" of Shady Sands was supposed to be. Things got so bad that Todd Howard had to literally patch the show in an interview (the only time where it wasn't Todd's fault). Also, New Vegas in ruins at the end of the season made me think "Well, guess nothing I did mattered, just like how nothing I did for the NCR in F1/2 mattered. Everything was destroyed anyway". Lastly, the bar for "best video game adaptation" is set pretty low.
@jbiehlable I mean, don't act like both sides aren't doing that... This entire comment section is NV Fans glazing each other and shitting on the show. I personally am fans of both
another problem which isn't huge but bothers me is that there's no sense of time or distance in this show. When they exited vaut 4 I thought 4 or 5 days had passed since the start of the adventure but no, Lucy said she spent 2 weeks in the surface💀
6:12 “I think this reads pretty clearly” no the truth is that it makes absolutely no sense. Ignoring that the fall of shady sands itself in 2277 breaks the lore for just a minute. There are FIVE textboxes and FIVE dates and FIVE arrows. The ONLY implication of it being after 2277 is that there’s an arrow pointing to a picture with no text and more importantly NO DATE underneath it like EVERY other textbox has. I guarantee you that they meant Shady Sands disappeared from the map in 2277 but after being called out they retconned their retcon. It’s baffling it really is baffling. I feel like a teacher deducting marks for not including the date but it seriously was that simple.
I think Enclave Emily is an alternate reality version of myself that has the courage to make videos like this because every single point you've made is identical to mine. Empires don't "begin to fall", they "decline". Shady Sands isn't in LA, it's in Death Valley. The Master is blind if he missed *FOUR* perfectly good Vaults in his backyard. This show is just a mess but we must mindlessly consoom because Vault, Ghoul, Nuka-Cola, Brotherhood, and Dogmeat.
If you're worried about reactions you might get to sharing your opinion, just have Sgt Dornan's voice call the MO-RONs in your head, and it becomes a lot easier. No, I mean it. Give it a try.
Bethesda is pissing on fans and doesn't even have the curtesy to call it rain....just like Disney with marvel and star wars also to anyone crying New Vegas elitist you're damn right why should any self respecting fan accept lesser quality product after a smaller third party studio made the series hit peak and it wasn't even finished like c'mon don't settle for piss labeled lemonade.
Dude is on the same smooth, brain rot wavelength as the show's creators. It was honestly painful to watch him argue his "points" that literally made no damn sense.
I applaud your zeal for the Series, After the show was released i just completely gave up on the franchise. I don't think there's any going back. Feels like star wars all over again ☠
You don’t even have to go that far for the TV show to ignore the game lore. Vault 33…is in Los Angeles. More than that it’s got a really obvious upper structure and is right next to a notable pier. Boy, sure is a good thing there isn’t anyone hunting down vaults based in Los Angeles, someone who knows where all the vaults in the region are roughly and could literally see Vault 33 out his window….
I honestly think the Shady Sands date was a mistake and they didn't actively try to retcon Fallout NV. Like they didn't actively retcon Fallout 1 and 2. They just completely ignored it and made up all their own stuff, as if the old story never existed. It just shows how well a grasp Tod and Emil have on the actual lore and how much they care.
@tirirana the show reinforces 2277. 5 times, to be specific, as I show in my review. If it was a single thing, I might believe it, but a lot of the plot revolves around when Lucy's mother "died", which all evidence points to being 2277
@@EnclaveEmily I agree. What I meant is that that date was put in by some writer who didn't know that it would break canon. And no one at Bethesda caught it and now in typical Bethesda fashion, rather than admitting the date is wrong, they try to justify it, when there is no way to justify it. 2277 is just wrong.
In the final episode, it was said Shady Sands was nuked 20 years ago, and the show takes place in 2296. So, doing the math Shady Sands was nuked 2276, but this could be a tiny error. However, from what the dialogue of the final episode tell and the chalkboard show, the fall and the nuke are one in the same.
yeah when something happened around a round number, people approximate. But yeah, the show didn't so much as goof as it did try its best to retcon vegas, now bethesda is coping
Just goes to show that you can’t just be willy nilly when it comes to language when describing history. When you say it’s “the fall of city X”, it is usually both the beginning and the end.
💀 The one thing I will concede throughout this entire dumpster fire that is the show, is the fall of the NCR itself. I can see it happen, and it would be a very serious and interesting concept to explore, FNV somewhat alludes to the problems the NCR is having, and it may be very possible no matter which ending is made canon. If the NCR wins the second battle of Hoover Dam, then I wouldn't put it past their government to keep marching east, despite the massive problems the Mojave campaign brought them, leading to their forces being way too thinned out to hold any territory. If the Legion wins, the NCR could get pushed back, probably past the outpost on I15, and god knows what would happen next. Maybe while they're licking their wounds and counting the massive losses they took, there could be riots that are started by civilians tired of war, or maybe the government decides to gear up again and have another massive assault on the Mojave region leading to more complications. And finally, if New Vegas goes independent, the NCR still loses the dam, their tight hold on the region, and (assuming Mr. House is out of the picture and we go along the Yes Man ruote), they might even be driven out of the region. There's a million different and much more interesting ways to write out the collapse of the NCR, but having some singular guy literally NUKE Shady Sands because "muh wife" is quite possibly the WORST way of going about it.
All of the silly copes and splitting hairs over the “fall of Shady Sands” and the visual timeline are totally irrelevant to the main problem - the show portrays the NCR’s infrastructure and nearly pre-war society as having completely collapsed within a generation after the destruction of Shady Sands, with the remnants of the faction being a few dozen generic Bethesda raiders. They've reverted things to pre-FO1 status quo lmao
In my opinion the worst thing about the lore-breaking discussion is that's ALL people are talking about, and missing the hundred OTHER things that are wrong with the show. The production designs, sets and costumes are awesome, blindly people to how bad the plot, characters, dialogue and humour are, especially the humour, it almost always misses. The funniest scene was the BoS guy getting shot in the neck and realising he's alive, I laughed my ass off. But ehh, Maximus, what can I say, I can't stand pussies, he's just such a weak stupid character I just can't like him. The modern thing of "zero consequences" pops up soo many times, Lucy's finger cut off/immediately replaced, Lucy drink rad water, immediately meet Maximus and gets Radaway, Maximus stupidly loses his fusion core and immediately Lucy shows up to help him etc.
For me the biggest crime they did was changing Mr House’s personality so completely. It scares me that they are going to New Vegas when they didn’t understand such an important character in that game, but he did look like House.
I don't know any lore or played any games. But me and my dad enjoyed it. I love Walter goggins character. Lucy was ok. I thought Marcus and the brotherhood was kinda weak like this is the guys that are kinda in control/ are struggling with other factions. Other than that at least it's not halo god did they massacre master chief and the Halo franchise.
@@nottodaywillj2723 The writing is insultingly bad and terribly inconsistent. The "humor" is also obnoxious. It's just an all around bad show. The fact it doesn't fit with established lore, in spite of being canon to the games, is just another point against it.
@@nottodaywillj2723 well, other than Shady Sands; there are other things introduced in the show that break continuity, like how the Vaults that Lucy come from somehow weren't intruded upon by the master during FO1, the Brotherhood and Enclave returning again somehow (bonus points is the fact it's the East Coast Brotherhood and they're weird pseudo-techpriests now as opposed to esoteric but otherwise completely secular tech-hoarders of every game previous)
Dude, I've been through this before. My 3 favorite franchises are Star Wars, Halo, and Mass Effect. I had to deal with Disney and 343i (for Star Wars and Halo respectively) shills, all of which unbearable and delusional. I love Fallout, A LOT, so this is just another annoying moment of "true fans vs. corporate shills defending their newest slop rendition of a franchise they previously didn't care about."
The ironic thing is that based of the shows own logic there could not be a different capital. The whole reason why shady sands was nuked was because vault Tec didn’t like that there was a powerful civilization so they nuked their base of operations. If shady sands was no longer the capital the would’ve nuked the new capital instead.
My review of the Fallout Show: th-cam.com/video/sqF32fExnlU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Iw0zA8tyG8cA-y8W
A glaring issue is the fact how Vault 31, 32, and 33 exist when the Master could have easily destroyed them in Fallout 1.
That's easy. The Vault Dweller killed the master before he sent his mutants to those vaults. Fallout 1 has a bad ending where The Master's army invades Vault 13. Maybe that attack on Vault 13 happens simultaneously with 31, 32, 33. But it never happened because Vault Dweller saved the day.
@@andrewkang2429 the master is next door to them. They would have been on the top of his list
@@andrewkang2429Not easy. The Cathedral and Vault 31, 32, and 33 are both located in Los Angeles California. He could have easily captured the vaults inhabitants with his nearby Nightkin army.
@@Abc1238u Invading Vault 31, 32 and 33 were on the Master's to do list. But the canon version of the Vault dweller was a Fallout 1 speed runner who beat the game in 15 minutes. Didn't even bother with the water chip. Just ran straight down to the Cathedral and killed the master with a speech check.
@@andrewkang2429 Your making assumptions. He had no reason not to do it.
Why is it so hard for people to admit that the writers either didn't care and fucked up the dates or are intentionally trying to rewrite NV so they can massacre it in season 2...
they literally admit they did what they did to "keep it a wild west". Yet people tend to ignore that
@EnclaveEmily I don't know why Bethesda always gets a free pass, it seemed like public opinion was shifting after F76 and Starfield, I guess all they need to do is jingle those nostalgia keys and the shills get right back in line.
@EnclaveEmily the fact that they said that,just shows they don't care about original fallout lore really at all.
I wonder if this show is just a setup for a fallout 5 on the west coast just so they can have a "blank slate" for their own stupid shit
@Monsoonthegoon Atleast they TRIED fixing every mistake they made on fallout 76 during its run, but i suspect if that game wasnt a live service they wouldve never bothered
@@Monsoonthegoon Well it’s simple, people don’t have standards anymore. I was literally called a right wing incel, just because I have common sense, and want good games, tv shows, and movies. Most people today are so soft and retarded it’s just insane. People need to stop getting on their knees for companies and many other problems. With all the damage the retarded consumers are doing, along with the companies, it may be hundreds of years or so until good movies, tv shows, and video games are made again, unless we can fix it sooner.
todd finally found a new way to shit on non-bethesda fallout games.
Where is the proof
@@DroidStudios001 the proof has 8 episodes doesn't it?
@@DroidStudios001 sandy city getting nuked
My though is the fallout community need to separate itself from the new fallout cannon and reestablish the old fallout cannon by ignoring the Bethesda slop and make fan games/mods that follow the old cannon. Edit:💀
Yeah like star wars
Im doing that. Only im adding SFM animations to this as well. Already had 2 drones complain on a Fallout 4 vid i did where im picking up the torch for Mr Caption in terms of working on reviews and critique of Fallout under Bethesda.
Fallout Sonora, Nevada, Resurrection and other already do that
@@russianoverkill3715 don’t forget Day-glow
@@silvertrimhill9844 it's a DLC for Sonora though, loved it, classic ghoul talking heads were so scary.
So I actually have a history degree, and I have to say, the Rome comparison makes no sense. No one talks about the Fall of Rome the way the Bethesda apologists seem to be saying they do. The “Fall of Rome” is more of a historiographical framework than a singular event. No one uses the “Fall of Rome” to describe the beginning of the empire’s decline. And no historian worth their salt would put a specific year’s date on the “Fall of Rome.”
Now, they might put a date under “Sack of Rome” either as 390 BC, 410 AD, 472 AD, 546 AD, 550 AD, or even 1084 AD or 1527 AD. But using any of those dates as a comparison would only reinforce the argument that Shady Sands was nuked in 2277, as a singular event.
If what they were trying to communicate was the “Fall of the Republic,” then remember that the Roman Empire continued to exist long after its “Fall.” With the NCR being a full on nation state, they should have more of a standing government than just some raiders in an observatory.
At best, they communicated poorly, and then doubled down on it to act like the fans just didn’t get it. And the saddest part is there are fans who have bought in to that gaslighting.
Very well said, I couldn't have put it better myself (so i'll probably yoink this comment for my review script lol). For real though, its baffling to me how people seem to misunderstand the basic concept of dating events to this degree.
Also i'm sad now after seeing so many dates associated with the sacking of Rome, damn.
I agree. And it seems a lot of people do not understand what Bethesda just implied when they introduced the NCR refugees and the NCR remnants. This implies that the NCR fell in one fell swoop. If they meant that they were Shady Sands remnants, then they shouldn’t have attached NCR to it but even then, if the NCR still exists in the show, then it makes it all the more confusing as to why would there be remnants within the proximity if Shady Sands? Wouldn’t their remnants, I don’t know, move up to other territories of the NCR? Being NCR citizens that had been displaced and all?
@@EnclaveEmily Yeah, the basic issue still remains - by far and away the most natural way to interpret the chalkboard scene is "Shady Sands was destroyed by a nuke in 2277". The people who read it that way aren't being unreasonable. You CAN come up with some contorted interpretation where it doesn't mean that, but that's doing some extreme equivocation.
This is exactly what I tried telling my sister lol
@@gentlemanbronco3246it’s not one fell swoop, and it still doesn’t make sense
When a mod for hoi4 is more accurate to fallout then a multiple billion dollar tv show
old world blues is amazing
@Gyrfalcon312 hearts of iron 4 is a grand strategy game that was heavily streamlined to appeal to more people.
Should I mention Fallout Nevada, nice mod for Fallout 2 leagues better than the Bethesda fanfictions!
What mod?
@@ecksdee1149 old world blues mod for hearts of iron 4 ( basically turns the game into fallout)
My biggest issue with the show isn't that the NCR died, its how it died. It didn't die because of its corruption or rapid expansionism or anything like that. They died because some vault tec corpo who somhow gets his hands on a nuke and blows up the capital. Thats like The Emperor from star wars dying because he sliped on the stairs. Also i guess everyone in the boneyard got abducted or something because that place is barren.
Yeah that's what gets me aswell, i'm not surpised that it would decline because of growing too fast too handle with mismanagement and corruption. But it's disrespectful to the fans and lore to make the reason pathetic, just a vault tec guy. The same thing with "Jake" Skywalker, he could of sacrificed himself going out fighting in a war but just overdosed on the force and that's it like a wimp. Dude respect our childhood characters & factions more...
It kinda spit on existing NCR issues.
To know they had massive corruption and their money was devalued didn’t ultimately kill them is crazy
Agreed. I could see the NCR dying due to its cities splitting up into becoming their own city-states because of the NCR’s state of affairs, or a civil war perhaps, but not like this. Hell if only Shady Sands got nuked, it shouldn’t have automatically spelled the death of the NCR, but since the show introduced the “NCR remnants”, they give the impression that the NCR died in one fell swoop when Shady Sands got nuked. Hell if Shady Sands was no longer the capital when it got nuked, then it makes even less sense that the NCR died altogether.
Yeah and I hate how the response to the NCR being nuked is the same old tired misused phrase "War never changes." There's a big difference between the NCR falling due to its own corruption, over-extension, and hubris, and being casually nuked by an outside-context who hates you that much.
It would've been better for the NCR to split into city-states and brahmin baronies.
@@Dante.- It never does. They control the money, so they control their corner of the world.
Is it just me, or do the Bethesda apologists all seem to really overstate how weak the NCR is in New Vegas? People in game talk about the problems that the NCR is facing, but nowhere do I get the impression that the NCR is on the verge of collapse. The NCR seems to be a country with political corruption and economic issues embroiled in a foreign war in the desert over energy resources- kind of like how the US was, at the time of NV’s release, a country with political corruption and economic issues embroiled in a foreign war in the desert over energy resources. But 15 years later, the US is still here, so it seems like 15 years after NV, the NCR should still be there.
The NCR was relatively weak 'IN VEGAS'. cuz they did not have the resources to reinforce 'en masse' from the home territory.
Totally agree, Bethesda just do not get it what so ever.
Exactly. I’ve seen people overstate the state of the NCR in New Vegas.
Using the US as an example isn't very good considering 1 we are facing so many problems from all that spending in the war in the ME and also we aren't a country trying to build up after a nuclear apocalypse.
All over new vegas you hear how things aren't looking the best for the NCR. Lakes and reservoirs running dry, possible food shortage, political corruption, and instability. The NCR even faces economic instability thanks to the brotherhood taking their gold reserves and causing their dollar to become almost worthless traders at the time of NV were changing back over to bottle caps but from various side missions having a NCR$ pay out elements of their government arsnt adopting the change. On top of that that add the ncr being unable to protect its trade routes from raiders would cause damage to trading between towns and cities.
Take all that is listed, and you can see it was facing many hardships that were not helped with constant spending on the Mojave and loosing much of that money to the casinos instead of back into their economy along with water shortages and food instability that a fall had already started. Now people who live during a fall don't really feel the fall as it is usually gradual, which is probably why no one really noticed, that is why it usually gets labeled a fall after the fact.
The NCR's presence in Nevada specifically was a massive mess, but not the NCR in general. The Nevada Campaign is a mess because they're involved in a war that nobody really wants to fight, lead by a midwit general who's more concerned with glory than actually winning, and their trickle of supplies all come through a single winding road, leading to a poor supply situation. Even with that, they're still holding their own against the Legion. Heck, they're the only faction in New Vegas that the player cannot destroy no matter what you do; the worst you can do to them is drive them back to California with their tails between their legs.
@@CantusTropus plus armchair generals like Lee Oliver.
The NCR had power, vehicles and roads all over California by the time of NV. Did the nuke have magical powers that makes infrastructure instantly vanish? Also where tf are all the super mutants? There was a super mutant minority from the days of the masters army that integrated into the NCR
For real. Some of the first California Rangers you meet in Fallout 2 are mutants.
@@Abc1238u whoa bro dont give them any ideas of what to ruin next everyone knows talking deathclaws and super mutants who actually act like.... people? Would be the top of the list of cool ideas to ruin, my bets on the super mutants tho it would be too easy to make a punching bag out of the "runt" and use him as comic relief for a season until he blows himself up making eggs of something
just because todd howard has a hate boner against real fallouts and anything that is better than their shitty games they didn't even bother googleing fallout lore
NCR was an entire nation not a city
so even if shady sands was nuked (and in wrong location)
entire nation would NOT crumble into a small group of bandits led by a lesbian cult lady
Any supermutant in the show will be more akin to the idiots in the East rather than the smart ones West. Mostly because thats how Bethesda wants them to be like and because a character is only as smart as its writer...so take that for what you will.
Well in respect to Super Mutants. They were sterile and couldn’t reproduce. By the events of New Vegas, their numbers were already small and almost extinct.
East Super Mutants were the result of Bethesda not knowing the lore. By right they shouldn’t exist there.
Bethesda fans have Stockholm syndrome.
Or maybe, we just like the games. You don't need to like the games, but other people are allowed to enjoy stuff regardless of your opinions
@@randomj_904 that's something someone with Stockholm syndrome would say.
So let us enjoy New Vegas and the OGs and explain why we like them more without being called "purists" or similar.
@@EnclaveEmily I belive everyone can like anything, I like all of them even tho I recognize new vegas as the best fallout. I just don't think its nice telling people they're wrong just because they like something you don't
@@randomj_904 That's the thing, nobody is saying that. (or at least, most aren't). The problem is that criticizing Bethesda's Fallout gets confused (deliberately) with criticizing people for having fun with it.
Nobody is legitimately calling you a weirdo for going back to, say, Fallout 4 to shoot stuff and use mods. They are however calling you a weirdo for, say, trying to state that Fallout 4's storyline makes sense. (just examples)
However, I don't believe you're being honest when you state your intentions, because I've read your other comments, and you're behaving as rabbidly as others tend to accuse "new vegas fans" of being.
Since when has Todd Howard been ever seen as the arbiter of Fallout Cannon? What world am I living in?
the world where bethesda won license to fallout by employing some ultra shady tactics only to ruin entire franchise and nobody objected to it and those who actually did were called haters
Real world
@@ryszakowy so, do you remember when Bethesda sued Interplay just to kill it?
The guy who himself doesn't understand fallout and whose fallout games all have shitty lore is the official arbiter 🤡
a clown world, if you will
"Oh, lovely, they've sent me a moron!" 🤣
THEY'VE SENT ME A MO-RON
basically any Bethesda fan that doesn't understand Fallout well enough to really be a fan of Fallout
@@nathanlevesque7812 Juicehead is a shell just like Oxhorn too.
@@nathanlevesque7812 fallout 4 Fan Here, i agree with you, fallout 4 was my First fallout, but totally f Bethesda.. NV Fans are right
@@vaughanphillips9316 truly a shill they both lost my respect years ago Bethesda doesn’t care about Fallout lore never did and they have a hard on for the Brotherhood of Steel. They don’t belong in West Virginia 30 years after the bombs dropped but there they are in Falllout 76
Vault 33 would've been cracked open like a walnut by the Children of the Cathedral. It would've been taken before the first game started. This show simply cannot exist within the established lore.
Exactly
Most people didn't even play Fallout 1 or informed themselves about the actual lore, so for them this is like telling a strange fact, a lie even. They're too blind to look past the superficial "Fallout look" of the show.
They could have simply swapped the locations of Shady and the cathedral. Kinda always rubbed me the wrong way that the master struggled to find vaults when the vault tec corporation started in LA and should have everything including locations, moving Shady may have fixed the issue of why the mutants in fallout 1 struggled to find the vaults
La is host to the vault tec building and therefore should have the location of every single vault in it, while ues the time could be prep we can't be certain and can really only estimate that it's because of them looking (also a base of super Mutants in death valley makes more sense for a hard to reach HQ that would be deadly to even get to) it fixes the issue while at the same time not really changing that much.
The Boneyard could be more literal and just be a settlement in Death Valley, a place known for death and bones instead of "the bones of civilization"
@@cowbeanboi412 Swapping the cathedral and shady sands is a terrible idea and would also be a goofy retcon. It would be vault 13 in between the military base and the cathedral.
Any vault tec building in LA would've been useless. Vaults, military bases and other hardened structures were the only prewar buildings to survive in any meaningful way, prior to Bethesda changing things. Vault 33 would've had the same fate as vault 17 by being so obvious.
@Mirthful_Midori vault 33 is a 6 hr walk from LA it would be entirely possible for the master to miss it if he was much farther away
B-but master T-todd said that NV still canon! That makes you wrong!
It pains me that people think that this is a legit defence. It doesn't matter what they say, it matters what they show to us. Fallout show directly contradicts Fallout 1, 2 and NV. Just like any other Bethesda Fallout.
Much like how it contradicts their own games, and how their own games contradict each other as well.
Seriously, Fallout 4 and 3 have various elements that are not consistent with each other. And even creetosis pointing out the show isn’t consistent with fallout 4. Beth canon is always a mess with horrific patch work, and TES only gets away with it because they have built in retcon devices
I don't understand why Todd and Emil even get so much benefit of the doubt. Why should we believe them? They've never given the impression they really care about any Fallouts not made by them.
And it rams their nebulous version of the BoS down our throats yet again, because they just have to keep putting them in everything.
Why cant people understand that we are criticising the story and what has been established with logical reasoning like anyone would with fiction like Harry Potter, if the author pulled this kind of shit their fans would be mad and confused because of the blatant contradictions and logical inconsistencies that the HP universe established
Episode 8 literally states that shady Sands was a wonderful place before Hank blew it up. That does not sound like a city that has "Fallen"
He did blow it up, but fall of Shady Sands is stating when it STARTED, not when it happened. The creators literally confirmed this...
It may look nice to an outsider but in Fallout NV NCR land was running out of water and food. Shady Sands was the capital and the "fall" is referring to when NCR began to crumble.
Use this to scare new Vegas fans: ->
Well a place can both be nice to live and also be worse than it used to be
@@zombiebadgr Your argument is identical to saying "US Involvement in WW2: 1941 (image of nuclear explosion)". This also isn't what outsiders are saying about the Fall, it's what the survivors of Shady Sands are teaching their kids.
I can't believe this is a discussion we even need to have. Looking at the show for two seconds and utilising your brain would have you come to the conclusion that it violates many rules and previously established parts of the setting. Moving Shady Sands to the complete other end of the state is not lore friendly. Ghouls needing a serum to not go feral is not lore friendly. Ghouls being able to shrug off multiple bullets like zombies is not lore friendly. Ghouls being able to survive being dug up, fed and given water once a year is not lore friendly. They need water to survive based on dialogue and quests from the first game. Suddenly, stealing that water chip from Necropolis is not so difficult a choice huh? Power Armor having thrusters is not lore friendly. Mr House and Sinclair being part of a conspiracy to end the world is not lore friendly. The Brotherhood of Steel proudly waving American flags despite being seccessionists and hating the US government for the crimes against humanity it commited is NOT lore friendly. How many examples do we need?
This is coming from someone who actually enjoyed the show on its own merits. It's a decent show in my opinion but absolutely not lore friendly in the slightest.
I swear none of these people have paid attention to Fallout 1 and 2.
most of them never played it
Bethesda are morons.
Especially with how to Brotherhood became the enclave with Caesar's Legion flavor cuz 'ALL THE LATIN' for names and whatnot.
I do not recall all that many latin-named people in any of the fallout games for the Brotherhood... but I do recall a lot of latin-guys from New Vegas, and they wore red skirts.
I have to say it, but no one besides die hard or older fans played those games and that's not to put you down, but you gotta understand that even in 3 and NV did retconing to those to suit the games.
Some of those are a little irritating, like the goul stuff, but things like shady sands are getting blown way out of proportions and only really recontextualizes the severity of NV's events, but it doesn't explicitly change or contradicts anything.
@@The__Furry_One no, you do not get to combine two games that happens on opposite sides of the US. Please tell what exactly is retconned in Fallout 3 and new vegas separately.
Some of these I agree with, but others are baffling. Ghouls aren’t surviving multiple gunshots, only one is. Ghouls aren’t “surviving” being dug up, only one is (probably due to that serum), ghouls still need sustenance to survive, hence why the ghoul eats the corpse of the guy who went feral. Although I did initially have issues with House’s stance in the meeting with the executives, it does actually line up with his certain prediction of a nuclear war in the near future. And I don’t think the BOS are waving American flags? I could be mistaken but the flag has the stripes of the flag but is missing the stars.
Though I do agree that the show is not very lore friendly overall, even if I don’t mind how the decline of the NCR is depicted (outside of the date of Shady Sands’ nuking and the funny backtrack) and I think having vault tec be the architect of the Great War was much more interesting than China (and in some ways more logical too) since it ties in with the Enclave’s plan in F2.
Remember the showrunners and writer said they nuked Shady Sands just cause they were afraid they couldn't have the western desert theme they wanted if the city still existed.
The showrunners must be the most culturally illiterate dregs on the planet if they don't know about Texas and its association with Westerns and cowboys.
You remember where they said it?
@VitaliyMilonov don't know which of their dumb interviews, but you can find it in Mauler's video on the Fallout show. Along with the quote "why make our characters awesome when we can make them dumb?"
Should have set the show before fallout 1 if they wanted that
The NCR is definitely dead by the end of Episode 8, too. It wasn't one city, it was all over California - and yet, nowhere Lucy and Max go, is there any sign of the NCR. There's only the Headquarters, and that is not occupied by NCR forces with an NCR government - it's occupied by a blood-drinker cult waving old flags around and led by "Flame Mother", a cult leader.
When Max says "it didn't work out", he's NOT talking about JUST Shady Sands. It's the whole nation, and it's gone.
Definitely one of my biggest complaints about the show. Places like the Boneyard, which should have lots of people in it, is completely barren.
Show mindset is that if they kill capital of nation, then nation dead... which would possibly work for something like Caesar's Legion, or Ashur's The Pitt, but not the NCR. They have a line of succession, they are wider-spread, just cuz president dies dun mean nation dies cuz new president can be sworn in or a line of succession can take over.
Ulysses pretty much told us both NCR and Legion would fall eventually regardless
@@darth1864 True, but the NCR didn't die because of its flaws, like Ulysses predicted. It died because a random, unrelated 3rd party nuked them.
@@darth1864 yeah but he was also half-insane.
My theory: Bethesda wanted to retcon New Vegas, saw the backlash and wanted to backpedal (as they do) but also saw all the social media engagement from people arguing about it, and so, they just let it stand.
I'd say that's more reality than a theory
That Bethesda and Todd wants to retcon not just New Vegas but all of the previous lore (just New Vegas in particular) is pretty much a fact.
The backpeddling is most likely due to the fact that Bethesda got bought by Microsoft, so ultimately, he works for them. He gets too much heat and Microsoft could just buy out his stock and put him on the street. That means he has to keep any controversies under control and the money pouring in. That means walking that tightrope of retconning the lore while dealing with the backlash.
@@mgass1354I mean they stated that if something wasn't present in 3, NV, 4 and 76 or was said in those games then it wasn't canon. So for example stuff that isn't directly stated like Vault 0 etc isn't canon, but stuff like "Brotherhood in the MidWest who went rogue" is, canonizing _a part_ of Tactics and not the whole game. They did the same thing with the OGs
@@thefemboyslayer
Except, that isn't true either. They backpedaled so fast from their tv show retcons that the Fallout Wiki on Shady Sands includes all of the lore from Fallout 1 and 2 WHILE claiming there were "revisions and retcons" to Shady Sands location.
In other words, they want it both ways because must tamp down controversy. It's not canon if we didn't do it... oh wait... yes it is!
Nah. You’re assuming malice instead of negligence. Go boot up Morrowind, then Oblivion or Skyrim and you will learn quite fast how little Bethesda ever actually cared about lore and canon. Internal consistency was never their thing
Funny thing is, there is a common element in all of the defenses of this show. Every time they want to excuse a lore break or inconsistency they refer to something offscreen or write their own headcanon for it. It NEVER refers to what we see in the show or in the games.
Ghoul medicine - "you never play as a ghoul, why should you know about every drug they use"
BoS - "years have passed, so what if it changed a bit? It's natural evolution"
Mr House - "doesn't matter what he was like in the game, all of that could have been him lying to the player"
NCR - "it was already in a decline, it's nothing surprising that they have fallen"
Vaults in the open - "Master was not omniscient, it's not strange that he could have missed a couple of vaults"
And so on. They never are able to defend the show on its own merit, it always has to be some mental gymnastics.
matty's video was worse imo feels like hes saying "tim cain likes it so we should too"
exactly. It's like saying 'J.K. Rowling made changes to lore after books and movies so it is fine now'. Which is just asinine.
Matty is a moron and a shill. Plain and simple.
yeah because irrelevant sellout who does nothing but shits on develop time of first two fallout games for views has anything of substance to say
The amount of brain damage coming from TV show apologists is crazy. Can we not just accept that the writers had a snafu, let them correct it, and move on? 💀
Or just have the showrunners just say it's their reimagining of the events before New Vegas?
Like creetosis said, it's like doing storytelling for the actual storytellers. Glad I unsubscribed from Juice and MattyPlays. Can't wait for the honeymoon period of the show to be over.
It probably won't happen till Season 2, maybe 3. By then people will blame those future seasons for why the show is bad, not realizing that the foundation for failure was set in season 1. Saw this play out with the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. Thought TFA sucked when it came out. Predicted it would sabotage future Episodes. Fans hated The Last Jedi and blamed it for ruining the Trilogy when all the problems started with The Force Awakens.
@@ShamanMcLamie the show from what i seen is above average at best
💀 All of this could have been avoided if the TV so took place in the Midwest. Think about it Bethesda has their fallout franchise in the east coast when it comes to the games obsidian has the West Coast the TV show could have had the Midwest filling out the whole map almost
Well, it's obvious they wanted to retcon F:NV despite BGS (Emil) saying it's canon.
@@abrahambobst4602 Nobody at Bethesda cares about lore or continuity. Emil saying it fits means as much as a blind man telling me I look nice.
@@Mirthful_Midori Agreed!
Honestly that could've been really cool too, it provides a much better setting for an escaped Enclave scientist.
So...lore question.
If the NCR fell before or soon after New Vegas, how did the West Coast Brotherhood survive? It's established in 4 that Arthur Maxson merged the West Coast, East Coast, and Outcast chapters into what we see in Fallout 4. But how did the West Coast Brotherhood live to see that if the NCR and Shady Sands weren't around to halt the Legion's advance?
Ahh but they have the magic blimp so that would indicate it's the east coast brotherhood returned to the west coast... I would guess.
@@kinagrill No no no, the East Coast Brotherhood is ALL of the Brotherhood now, Maxson merged them all into one group. The current BoS is made of all three of the chapters we've seen.
@@paragonpoints8420 >The east brotherhood is the brotherhood now
Fat chance. The writers don't understand the point of the brotherhood but they did something worse, they made the brotherhood something they never were. Flying American flags and operating like a military is the highest form of heresy. They're soldiers larping as brotherhood. They're functionally the Enclave now.
@@RedStar441 It's still canon, though. I'm not commenting on whether it's good or not, I'm just saying that it IS the case, whether we like it or not.
The problem here is that it can't be the case. If the NCR isn't there to halt the Legion, there's NO way the West Coast Brotherhood survives. But THAT can't be the case either, because we KNOW the show agrees with the Fallout 4 lore.
The West coast Brotherhood were in hiding in their bunkers due to losing in a war against the NCR. Best guess is they stayed hiding in holes in the ground.
JuiceHeada thumbnails are very clickbait, just look at his cyberpunk videos thumbnails, Panam looking really sexual in the thumbnails. Only why I bring it up because a lot of his videos is him rambling on same topic over and over again like a broken record, he relies on clickbait thumbnails and eye grabbing titles.
atleast his not like some gta content creators we know lol
Remember that he defended mods like The Frontier and New California which were both fucking terrible.
@@rangerboo788 dont put new cali on the same shit level as the frontier.
@@rangerboo788i thought new california was a good mod
Another thing worth mentioning: the two farmers wearing black ranger armor pretty much confirms NCR is a remnant faction now, otherwise how would they have gotten ahold of such legendary equipment without NCR authorities coming to take it from them?
Its meant to be a cool superficial callback to New Vegas but instead it just messes even more with New Vegas Lore.
Clearly they scavenged it or took it off rangers' corpses.
At least this is what I bet Emil Pagliarullo thought
That is like saying "How could the Vietcong have two M16s? America must be destroyed." The NCR can still be doing well in other regions and simply have lost one part of their former territory.
@@fire_towerWRONG
The NCR Ranger Combat Armor is more akin to an F-4 Phantom than a standard issue service rifle during the Vietnam War.
Only veteran rangers get issued such equipment. Basically the Tier 1 special forces group of the NCR.
No fucking way some rando farmers who get easily wasted would be able to acquire 2 complete sets of the things.
Going by lore of how skilled and capable veteran rangers are, if those 2 were _actually_ veteran rangers, *they'd be the protagonists.*
and that is another of bethesda's hateboners towards new vegas
they didn't even bother googling ncr rangers
it was a pretty important that entire faction of desert rangers joined NCR, they even had a giant fucking monument to the event in front of mojave outpost
as far as fallout 1 Tycho - one of possible companions was a desert ranger
rangers having territory from nevada to arizona
but one city in wrong location being nuked means ENTIRE FUCKING NATION STOPS EXISTING
@@DJWeapon8 the ncr doesn't care about equipment, if the two dudes scavenged it off of a rangers corpse the ncr wouldn't even know let alone care as we can see in new vegas where they actively support mercy killing their own troops and never retrieving the body's in nelson, they also dont try and recover ranger morales' corpse even though there are 2 ncr troppers (or rangers depending on player level) less than 100 meters away
There is a citizens test in Freeside for food rations in which you are asked what the capital of the NCR is. The answer is Vault City...
Nah, I'm messin with you, its Shady Sands. Of course it is.
On the point of Vault City, if the NCR collapsed then plenty of cities could very easily petition VC for membership and protection, and not become raiders.
People that claim to be a fan of some work of fiction, but dont give a shit about the lore and history to it really irk me. I'm a fallout normie, i watched the show to see what the hype was, considered it mid at best, noticed a bunch of issues with out knowing much about fallout, and decided I wanted to know a bit more about the games history, and knowing what I know makes it worst cos the show has really contradicted a bunch of shit by the sounds of things. State of entertainment folks. Dont ask questions, just consume product.
Of course it had a sez scene in the very first episode.
You know the pea brained TV enjoyers lapped it up.
I really liked the show's characters and plot, the lore is horrendous, but i can't say i like it because the Vegas Cultists will jump me saying im a Jewish bethesda psyop or some shit like that
@@manz7860You can literally fuck in every fallout game, including Vegas, hell, you even are able to buy condoms on 2, just say you are a grifter who never played the games dude
See what i mean? I cant say i dont like it because i would get grouped with dudes who think the legion is unironically based and redpilled
So Todd came in and clarified that the nuking of shady sands came after the events of FNV, but that chalkboard was vague as it didn't add a date below the nuke drawing, so either the show makers meant to use the word "decline" instead of fall or they saw the backlash and are trying to backpaddle. I still find it dumb as hell that in the 15 years of New Vegas to the show that the west coast wasteland completely went to shit and that the NCR remnants didn't try to hold onto their power, they had around 170,000 people, shady sands was 34,000, sure it's a major loss and we know that things weren't doing so hot from dialogue in FNV, but having it completely collapse besides a singular location that numbers around 100 is dumb.
edit: Correction, it was actually 700,000 not 170,000, making the fall even more unbelievable.
You know, I don’t think a lot of the newer fans really grasp what the NCR was. It was an honest-to-goodness nation-state capable of projecting military power beyond its borders. They had trade and industry. It makes no sense that it would just cease to exist because it’s capital was nuked.
But if you’re thinking of the NCR like the Fallout 4 factions, then suddenly it might kind of make sense. The Institute, the Brotherhood, the Railroad- you destroy their main base, that’s the end of them. Even the Minutemen apparently just disappear when Quincy is destroyed, hence you having to rebuild them if you choose that route.
Let me be clear that this is a criticism of Fallout 4, not a defense of the way the show handled the NCR.
@@tlucas7031 makes sense. Bethesda is retarded enough to make this kind of mistake after all and I bet the people who do defend this shit despite having played new vegas are the types who weren’t so keen to details.
A theory I've seen mentioned was that the NCR is alive and well in the North, but left the South due to the nuking and desertification (which apparently got a mention in New Vegas, most notably by the OSI, I personally don't remember as it's been a while since I did that quest). Even that is still a major and sudden fall for the NCR. Still it's about the best explanation I've come across short of just removing the show from the lore.
Even worse, 700.000 thousand was the population count in 2241, by 2281 (fnv) they should well be at a million at their pace of growth.
@@PrivateDoge My point exactly, even if it WAS their capital, there's no way the fall of ONE city/town could cause the complete collapse of an entire nation of that size in a mere 15 years.
💀
How the hell do you retcon your own video? First saying that Shady Sand didn't fell in 2277, it just began to decay then to say that a calender stops before the date of the decay. Why would it stop if it's just the beginning of a period of decline and not an outright fall? This is completely absurd
Also based OWB gameplay
Must be an Oxhorn fan... cuz 'scientists retcon reality all the time' XD
@@kinagrill lmao, pretty much
I mean maybe at a far stretch, the library stopped receiving funding in 2277 as part of the decline of Shady Sands? The problem is there wasn't any obvious signs of this in the show, at least none I know of.
@@kinagrill are they just gonna ignore the fact that those same types of people would call retconning actual history "Historical revisionism?"
I find it kinda funny that a lot of these people talk about how the show doesn't break lore while having to mod FO4 to make the guns more accurate
no one does that
@@ronaldsrod Juicehead does a lot of FO4 mod reviews, and among those he's definitely covered mods that replace the assault rifle and combat rifle, with more sensible, lore friendly weapons. For example, he reviewed WARS about 2 months ago as of this reply.
and not to mention hes a giant clickbaiter@@zhop951
@@ronaldsrod literally everyone does that
especially "in defense of" type of videos
The fallout 4 guns are an abomination i hate looking at them😭
''No point in obeying lore and good stories in the 'Great American Storybook' - People just gonna tear the pages out and make paper aeroplanes with them.''
Normal people can't make sense outta storywriters who have that lack of ethics and morals.
I forgot about that quote. Might use it.
he said something so stupid he unintentionally summed up bethesda games to the letter
established lore? who needs it
writing a good story and main quest? yeah right let's just make things happen for no reason in the most idiotic way possible
AND THEN people just "tear out pages and make paper airplanes with them"
100% agree
skyrim, oblivion, failout 4, fallout 3
they all have moronic main quests
and every single time people either ditch the main quest or rush it to be done with it
or ignore the game completely and install bajillion mods
congratulations emil you were completely wrong and absolutely right at the same time
There is a lot wrong with the series just from what I've seen in videos like this one.
Let's start and end with the location change of Shady Sands because that is the crux of the entire retcon. Everything AFTER this retcon in the show is merely a continuation of the destruction and rewrite of the lore.
In Fallout (the OG), you leave the vault and find the farming community of Shady Sands. You get a quest to rescue Tandi from raiders which you do because it is confirmed in Fallout 2. In Fallout 2, you learn that Tandi grew up, formed the NCR, established Shady Sands as the capital and was even a President of the NCR. New Vegas then expanded upon the role of the NCR in the wasteland. And here, let's be clear, the NCR expanded from its capital in California all the way out to NEVADA and was strong enough to fight and win against all of the raider factions, super mutants, creatures, deathclaws, etc. Heavy losses at Hoover Dam might have weakened the NCR, but, it did...not...fall.
So, the crux; all three games are connected BY Shady Sands. When Bethesda changed the location, they retconned everything associated with that one little farming community.
The "how" is simple. Shady Sands wasn't in LA. You never went to a Shady Sands in LA. That was the Boneyard. The Shady Sands 200 some odd miles northeast of LA is not just gone; it now never existed. If that Shady Sands never existed, then Tandi never existed. If she never existed, the NCR is never formed in the first place. There NOW has to be all new lore put forth to explain HOW the NCR formed, HOW it expanded out from CA to Nevada, HOW everything that happened but got retconned now happened by in a different way with different people. That is a retcon of the lore.
Todd has stated that he was consulted with the ideas for the show, thus, this retcon was all Todd.
First of all, it’s set 15 years after 2281, so ANYTHING could happen.
That includes the deterioration of the NCR as it has been confirmed as that by Gods and Nolan, however the nv stans cannot get it through their heads via the sheer copium required to deal with the moving of Shady Sands.
Yes the NCR may be militarily weakened after 4 brutal years of the mojave campaign by 81, but you’re forgetting the political result, and with the monopolistic caravan compaines, arms merchants and Brahmin barons essentially owning congress and influencing Kimball to kill off Tandis dream.
For the people nothing much can be done, but after possibly finding out the solid proof (heartaches by the number and other reasons too like the sheer fact no good news comes back from the campaign out east) could mean more riots and political groups forming that want to splinter off etc.
If you play the hoi4 owb mod like Emily plays here, you’ll know about the shitty political state the NCR is in even around 2275.
So therefore after the unknown fate of the NCR, the crumble could still happen even if they did win in 2281, as the republic will no longer have the legion to be an external threat as they either retreat to flagstaff or are halted at the Mojave Outpost. This means that the people will either celebrate before looking for internal threats (ie the monopolies stripping rights away) or immediately overthrowing kimball for losing g the war by being nepotistic and corrupt (can be done by a vote of no confidence or coup etc)
The retconn may piss off the sticklers of the community, but it does allow for the story to become more local to LA, after all a lot of new locations pop up, just cause we don’t see the gun runner factory with a moat of goo around it or the blades doesn’t mean it’s a shit show. Better yet that stuff took place over 130 years ago by 2296.
Why don’t we see the followers uni, cause it got blown up because the new lore retcon would suggest the followers would put their uni in shady as it looks well done up in the flashbacks.
The thesis is that shady should be in Death Valley as the sacred holy book the fallout lore/bible would say. And the Bethesda bad crowd would be satisfied, yet still find nitpicks to hate the show on.
The antithesis is that if it were, the fallout to show would not be in LA so no cooper Howard or Lucy and it would be a BoS show which would likely fail cause the show was most likely watched by non fans who don’t fucking know about fallout or it’s lore.
Sacrifices therefore had to be made even if it would piss off an obnoxious crowd of new vegas bootlickers.
I like how the people that defend the writing of this show seem to not have watched the show. You really should pay attention to the first 10 minutes of episode 4 fella :>
@@EnclaveEmily So what, Ghouls have to use Rad-Away to keep them going feral, not the worst retcon out there, just some of us can put up with shit while other cannot. Besides, the point of the Roger scene is to show the consequences of Lucy destroying Coopers Rad-Away tin.
I've seen the show, what makes us different is that I don't hate on a show because it makes a change (shady in LA) that now has just become cherry picking on your side.
If the reason you really dislike the show, is because they didn't do it the exact way you wanted it to play out, then you shouldn't be worthy to criticise it.
No no, that's not what I'm referring to. The show tells you when the nuke happened. Also, keep making up reasons as to why I dislike it. I'm sure it'll go great
@@nottodaywillj2723
Maybe you just skipped over my OP. Go back and read it. ACTUALLY read it.
Changing the location of Shady Sands wasn't just some minor "oh well" change. That change literally makes every NCR plot in every game AND the tv show now have to get new lore and until it gets new lore the NCR doesn't exist. The NCR in the series doesn't exist. But, they are in the series you say? Yeah, they say it exists but don't explain HOW it exists now that they retconned Shady Sands. Oh, I see, it's just magic, like what Bethesda says holds up that BoS blimp... they literally say "mysterious technology"... aka magic. It's magic the NCR is in the show.
But but you can take a change and not hate and and... but Todd can't. Mr. "It just works" Howard says anything he needs to at the time and the fanboys are all "omg Todd said it so it is gospel". Todd has had a craw in his shorts with New Vegas and the OG fans because we think his fpshooter/looter Fallout sucks. He still isn't over Obsidian's New Vegas being considered the best Fallout game to date so he is just going to retcon as much previous lore as he can.
I keep seeing people say moving Shady Sands isn’t a big deal like having it basically next door to the the Masters Cathedral wouldn’t completely change the lore as we know it
no-one who has played the original games thinks that
Finally a voice of reason. This show is not good as a Fallout, neither as its own thing. But somehow people are willing to die on that hill and pretend that this show is amazing, it's just hilarious at this point.
💀
Juicehead? Making lazy and bad content? No way. Im totally flabbergasted. He's been doing crappy fallout content for years with the most clickbaity clickbait thumbnails that any human has ever seen.
I'd never purposefully and knowingly watched a Juicehead video. After watching the show I thought I was experiencing a stroke with people defending the lore breaks and crappy writing. In a search I saw this Juicehead video and thought, "Wow, this channel sucks." Then another video of his talked about how good 76 is. At that moment, I just realized Juicehead is some sort of Bethesda lemming.
I guess that according to the show enjoyers Japan just stopped existing after the Oppenheimer and LeMay related incidents and was an empty wasteland for decades to come with no signs of a major civilization (especially near Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Tokio)
I really hate people that argue because a setting has instances of bad writing and absurd events that people should be alright with more bad writing and absurd events.
Why should we be alright with it? Why shouldn't we complain about it? Why should we want more bad writing, more ridiculous canon, more awful stories?
And then, at least where I frequent, they hit you with the flippant, "I'm just tired of hearing it, bro", excuse, like the story needs to be garbage and drive the likes of me off because they can't avert their eyes from a forum post. It's just so, so incredibly stupid, it's hard to believe people actually think that way, and yet here we are.
I want to die.
@jbiehlable Also the eminently idiotic, "Yet you're still watching / playing, curious!"
Forgot to mention that one.
"I didn't like the inclusion of 1 tomato in my hamburger"
"OH SO HERE'S 2 TOMATOS THEN"
"but i don't like it"
"HOW DARE YOU?"
I’d like to add that the problem here too is that a lot of people don’t understand that this instance of bad writing basically deletes or severely breaks the events of a game which is regarded by many as the favorite or the best out of all the fallout titles.
💀 Good. I can disregard the story like 3 and 4 like usual.... in addition to just pretend the show never happened.
Dude doesn't know the difference between 'the fall' of something and the 'decline' of something... *facepalm*
The WRITERS don't know the difference.
@@RedStar441 Calling them writers is rather polite of you :D
@@aragmarverilian8238 well they most likely DID write something down.
@@kinagrillthey wrote fanfiction
@@roachdoggjr8399 Man, yall really like sucking each other off huh?
I simply can't understand ppl who defend this show 💀
@@zadristok_live me neither. Its bizarre
All those Bethesda copes sure remind me of when people were coping that The Last Jedi had some obscure, elaborate commentary instead of it being a genuinely badly made movie; "Luke tossing the lightsaber away is genius characterisation, it's not the movie saying 'f you' to fans expectations", it very clearly is.
Weird how everyone forgot starfield and the fact reviews from paid sites are biased. God I miss the sneedclave
The problem is that Bethesda never understood Fallout in the first place.
Great you enjoy those games.. Yes they are fun but I have to say.. Bethesda's Fallout sucks. That's just how it is.. They destroyed the entire fallout lore and rules within that universe. All of a sudden vault tech started the war, the BoS are now white male Christian bullies and the NCR are basically raiders.
You will hear that more if you talk to original fallout fans.. Bethesda never understood Fallout or it's mentality.
They think that's its about the 50s in a apocalyptic world but it's actually about the 50s world that was destroyed in an ultimate world conflict and mad max arose from that world. It makes no sense that people wear fine outfits in this world because they don't know a THING from the old world.
But they don't need the original fallout fans because they're fallout is for the masses.. Not for fans.
It's not an anti war game anymore.. It's an modern anti Capitalist game in every aspect.
The creativity difference between Obsidian and Bethesda.. Just in the Conversation aspect is so enormous that it's almost laughable that people actually think fallout 3, 4 and 76 are good fallout games with a good story.
Basically in every fallout from Bethesda you need to find a family member.
It’s funny because Bethesda Shills can’t even remember any good writing in Bethesda Fallout. The story is so bad and boring and even the side quests. all they do is turn off their brain and shoot things because the writing is so bad. Compare that to F1 F2 FNV where the story/quests are good, you can turn off your brain and shoot things while enjoying a good story. Interplay/Black Ilse/Obsidian Fallout Writing is like Lord of the Rings Game of Thrones and Harry Potter books. Bethesda Fallout writing is like Dragon Evolution. All Bethesda has is the title of the Franchise thats it.
Sooner or later we're all gonna have to accept the fact the Fallout died at 4. It's a hard to swallow pill, but it's truth.
Ok
@@lonely_hermit No we dont. We hammer it into Microsoft they screwed up buying Bethesda. It was a toxic purchase and that Fallout needs to be taken from them. The Fallout show is not canon to the games no matter how hard the Drones claim it is.
You are correct that Bethesda never understood why the fans of Fallout 1 loved the game. All they knew was that there was a built-in fanbase and with fpshooter/looters getting popular, they could "update" Fallout into that. This is why they made 3 as they did, then focused on gunplay with 4 and they dropped all pretense with 76.
The OG Fallout was more about the world, the characters, the entire "you thought you were a hero? No. This world has no room for heroes" that gets rammed home to the player. The last is the ending that slams it home to the player. It turned everything a player knew from other RPG games onto its head. You weren't the chosen one. You weren't the hero getting the hero's ending. The world of Fallout had no room it because it was a brutal world.
How an entire nation, that's what the NCR is by 2281 doesn't exist in the show?
Todd made the fall of shady sands in 2277. Exclusive to retcon New vegas and seems like FO1 & FO2 too
Where's Junktown, Dayglow, broken hills, Modoc, the Hub, the stunning and beautiful *Arroyo,* *Vault City* in the show?
There's 0 mentions
Why everyone in the west coast is living like Mad Max characters?!?!? When by 2281 mostly of the west coast was living like it was the pre-war world again houses, Jobs, medicine, schools, security, actual money instead of bottle caps (you don't use bottle caps in Fallout 2 btw)
Thanks to the NCR btw
I don't need to make a big text explaining . They didn't even try to hide the lore butchering.
Everything we did in FO1 & FO2 seems pointless now
I don't even like to think what Bethesda going to do w/ the Legion, the wild tribes and what they going to do w/ the smart-friendly super mutants...
My dude Marcus... 😢
💀the constant stabs at new vegas really paints a picture of just how insecure this show's writing is. i haven't even played that much of New Vegas and even i felt like the show was murdering and molesting its corpse in front of me, like stop, you have a problem fallout show
They absolutely made a huge mistake and tried to save face by backpedaling. I wonder how they'll do this as their 2nd season is likely already past the writing phase and into filming and editing, as they were approved for a 2nd season right after the 1st was approved.
Either TH-cam or enclave Emily is censoring/shadow banning my reply to your comment on her video so I’m gonna try to reply to your comment on that other video in this comments section instead.
why do you think the bugthestards who like the show and “SlopOut 4” are “socialists/communists”? So far I’ve ONLY SEEN cringey little rightwing (censored) praising the show, who get triggered when you point out how they’re literally TO (censored) to grasp the complex thematic through lines of the series, which is why they think the rabid anti-communism shown as a characteristic of pre-war America isn’t an obvious satire of low-IQ, dogmatic right-wingers who get triggered at anything remotely leftwing and label it as “communist”. Surely you wouldn’t fall into that category right? You’re not a (censored) Bethesda tourist who’s legitimately to (censored) to realize that the REAL fallout games MAKE FUN OF people who cry “communist” as a way to dismiss those they disagree with, right? Surely you’re a real fallout fan who understands that since its inception, fallout has critiqued the thought process of McCarthyist anti-communism as being a (censored), delusional, (censored) and irrational political position, and surely since you’re not a bugthestard tourist, you understand that critiquing McCarthyism is not the same thing as “defending communism” right?
I’ll just treat this show as if it were an alternate earth and that the ncr is still alive with its shitty problems in Obsidian’s Fallout earth. Bethesda just hates FNV man 😢.
We are citizens of the Old World Fallout
@@EnclaveEmily Im really on kool aid right now with the NCR getting nuked off screen but this whole thing also feels like Fallouts 1 and 2 were also retconned. Im really starting to see this as Bethesda trying to grab on to whatever love that still belonged to the fallout games Obsidian had a hand on.
I feel like Dornan has the only sane response to this show and its worshippers.
"Oh lovely, they sent me a MOROAAN...."
The biggest problem I have is this idolizing of the BoS. Bethesda keeps proping them up like a standing nation, when they were always seen as reclusive and isolationist. They don't have the resources to do anything big as seen in Bethesda titles. Just look at their size. Who are feeding these people? In F4 you are charged with securing farms for them, but that is not nearly enough, and you aren't going to get enough food without willing farmers. In the NCR it shows that they have logistics for food and supplies. It is so big that they have bureaucracy and problems in dealing with supplies or the most common in NV is the camps are too isolated for them to reach them. They don't just have no supplies and then you have to strong arm some peasants into giving the BoS a farm of corn that will give their soldiers a net zero nutrient value.
if bethesda wasn't just going for brand recognition and emil wasn't their lead writer,the bos would have been an extinct faction by now,and realistically they would,but no,the bos is bethesda's IDOL
The only way I see the “the NCR is still around” cope working is if the people who defend the lore inconsistencies would point out that “the show implies that Shady Sands was no longer the capital even before it got nuked”, because this would mean while it would have been devastating to lose the former capital, it would at least show that the NCR is still alive. That way, the events of New Vegas could still take place but it does break a lot of the established lore as a consequence in order to be able to make the claim that the NCR is still around a reality. I would rather that Bethesda comes clean and say “yes it is a retcon” or "yes we fucked up the dates." Although there’s still the NCR remnants issue. It would be understandable that by the time the show takes place, we would see an NCR in a state of decline, not dead, just severely weak and dysfunctional, but because of the NCR remnants, it seems to imply that the Republic fell altogether when Shady Sands got nuked. At the end of the day, trying to defend the lore inconsistencies just brings us at a circular argument hahaha.
Likely the 2nd season is already written and being filmed since they were pre-approved for a 2nd season before the show ran. We'll see what happens. I'm not liking this so far. Fallout is already dead, but the more Bethesda and their pals beat it the more consoomers come running to soyjak at their latest slop they released for $60-70 plus microtransactions.
heres a funny real life story that happened to me yesterday and sums up this whole fallout series as a whole. a friend chatted with me about how great the series was and when asked what they liked about it they didnt say it was the story/ writing/ plot/ characters or in series game refferences it was the actor playing "the Ghoul". when i asked for more details they couldnt provide any and when asked if the series stayed true to the games they said they never played any of the games. this for me says it all, it isnt a show for fans its a mixture of propaganda for Bethesda and something for the GOT moms. to prove this i even asked if they would be watching the new Nuka Breaking episodes on YT and they didnt have a clue what i was talking about and THAT is the real Fallout series not this amazon grabage
I also thought the show was kinda ass. The writing is awful
Isn’t this just gatekeeping? Why decide who gets to enjoy Fallout and how? People can be fans for any reason-they don’t need to pass a fan purity test. Let’s not narrow down our community with unnecessary barriers. Everyone should be free to enjoy the series in their own way.
@@fistonly if you're only watching the show for "The Ghoul", just watch the first season of Westworld. The directors are the same and the Man in Black is the same character but actually good
@@fistonly Gatekeeping is good and necessary. Don't like it? Too bad, because I'm beyond tired of seeing the things I like destroyed chasing mass appeal.
@@fistonlyand that’s fine but there needs a healthy balance of being able to keep the niche, a niche. This kind of thing is what derailed star wars from being one of the most prestigious, talked about franchises into one of the most “meh” titles out there right now. It just doesn’t carry the same weight it did when it was still a niche. The difference here is that people who came to star wars when it was fresh and fallout was that it was mainly the story that attracted people to Star Wars and as a result, developed a fanbase that was passionate enough to even help grow the lore and stick to it, whereas for Fallout, it’s attracted people who enjoy the aesthetics (and at times, because of the Ghoul), all while sloppily handling lore and not just any lore, mind you, it’s lore surrounding involving a fan favorite game and a fan favorite faction apparently being killed off offscreen.
That character assassination of Mr. House in this show is grounds enough to throw away this stinker. I don't even really like House and even I know that wasn't him I saw in the show.
My favorite thing about the show is the mental gymnastics shills are using to justify a retcon of an entire game.
Shit is absolutely baffling! It feels like Disney’s Star Wars all over again.
Toddslop defenders have an IV full of corn syrup going into their bloodstreams.
They literally confirmed that NV isn’t retconned
It wasn't retconned. PLEASE listen to Tim Cain and stop starting issues.
@@corypowercat7277 these ppl just ragebait each other bc they found their tribe and it makes them feel good. one missing date on a chalkboard and they lose their minds and start insulting people involved with the show. these ppl don't care about Cain or what anyone else involved in creating the games they liked are saying.
Do you think they are being ambiguous about everything on purpose?
I don't think, I know.
It's clear gaslighting.
This is how you get away with bad writing. Saw it with The Force Awakens. That movie had a lot of problems and instead of seeing problems and the obvious fact they had no plans. Fans assumed they had a plan and that all these problems were mysteries to be solved. Rey isn't super powerful do to a rushed and haphazard script writing process. She must have some important lineage, or origin story that explains this unexplained jump in powers and abilities. I'm getting the same vibes from the Fallout show. Superficially looks really good. Knows how to tickle the fans right in the nostalgia. This manages to trick people into liking what is frankly a garbage story. I predicted Star Wars Episode 8 and 9 would suffer story wise due to Episode 7. I have a feeling future Seasons of Fallout will not be so well received by fans.
@@EnclaveEmilyGot the first half right.
@@fire_tower Cry
Gotta love how about half of the arguments is "Wait until Season 2" as if they had a real thought-out plan for the NCR and not just backtrack/damage control via ADR after the backlash. Also, low key admitting retcons with them moving Shady Sands.
This show is looking like The Force Awakens of Fallout. Superficially looks good. Knows how to dish out the member berries, and fans are just eating it up, but the story just sucks. Characters make no sense and are diven by the plot instead of the characters driving the plot. A plot that relies way too much on coincidence. The show butchers it's own setting and lore. The destruction of the New Republic in The Force Awakens was done just so they could go back to Empire vs Rebels. The New Republic just disappears after Starkiller blows up their capital. For some reason the NCR and all the civilization they built up just disappear after Shady Sands is nuked. They did this because they wanted that desolate wild wasteland, as seen in the first Fallout game. What makes this so much worse was that they could have set the show anywhere else like Texas, or New York where they shot the show. Had their zany wasteland adventures and be consistent with the lore.
Back in 2015/16 when I would criticize The Force Awakens a common retort I got was to wait for Episode 8 to come out. It would fix all the issues, I mean answer all the mysteries. I predicted Episode 8 and the rest of the trilogy would suffer because of TFA. Boy was I right. Just like The Force Awakens the people who made the Fallout series don't seem to have a plan at all.
I think the fact that people are calling this show absolutely amazing shows how low our standards have become regarding video game to film adaptations. I suppose it could have been a lot worst...
but it also could have been a lot better...
I want Fallout to get a true spiritual successor, Fallout ended with New Vegas for me.
Fallout ended with New Vegas
I'd rather have it as "stopped", since I still have hope for an actual successor, as impossible as it is right now, or ever.
The true canon is that everything past Fo2 is all a pskyer vision bestowed upon world-renowned scientist and learned man Mr. No-Bark Noonan.
We simply have the honor of witnessing it.
(except new vegas that is actually okay)
Juicehead is an absolute Bethesda shill. Id take whatever he says with a hint of salt
try a fucking spoon of salt
The entire fucking sea
a god damn salt mine even
People are really in denial of the fact that the timeline was just a really shitty form of plot exposition.
also know i notice
the enclave(that got destroyed 500 times) has more chance to come back in the series/games than the fucking new california republic
i mean, i love the enclave but this is bullshit
As Qui Gon would say to Juice's Head:
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.
Fun fact the first 3 Minutes of thr show are literally Impossible to happen, thr nukes dropped in the morning on the east... Why the heck is it day time in L.A
The fact Todd Howard said the show is cannon shows the guy has no spine.
I can only hope its going to fall on its face so hard that Todd is like the show is an alternative time line
Something that really bothered me is how the show made everyone in California either savage or retarded, although I suppose that's not entirely unrealistic.
What I mean is that between the end of Fallout 2 and the beginning of New Vegas, NCR occupies nearly all of pre-War California, even pushing into Oregon, Baja, and obviously Nevada. Fallout (2024), on the other hand, makes it seem like NCR was exclusively Shady Sands, bolstered by the fact that there are entire Enclave laboratories on the surface, not to mention the impossible existence of the Brotherhood of Steel so deep into NCR, which is another bathtub of worms entirely. And yet, in a few short years, every citizen has reverted into a dirty, uncivilised raider. You can get away with this in something like Fallout 3 and 4, to a short extent, but it makes no sense when you're returning to an established society.
This show racks my brain. Nearly every outcome just feels so cheap and unrealistic. It's decent overall, but the only reason audiences act like it's anything more than that is because American television has become starved recently, similarly to films.
Apparently the show runners didn't like the whole post post apocalypse thing about rebuilding civilization and wanted the world to be savage and wild.
If they wanted that why didn't they just make the show anywhere else. The ncr built civilization in the west. They could've just stayed east like fo3.
I was laughing when the first episode had softcore adult entertainment.
Of course. Anything to satisfy the pea brained individuals who watch TV.
Well you see,this is because its being written like fallout 4,all the factions have a main base that when destroyed leaves them completely nonexistant as a faction afterwards. EXCEPT the minutemen. As they are a fallback faction lol
The show feels like a big middle finger to classic fallout fans
that's because it might as well be.
One thing I find annoying with bethesda Fallout is that it seems bethesda can't get out of their heads the idea of having fallout be some mad max esque perpetual wasteland
There is no real rebuilding of civilisation, and whenever it does happen, it always seems to fail. For some reason, it seems bethesda can't get past the idea that Fallout is a constant wasteland of raiders and anarchy, and, imo, it seems to be affecting the writing of recent fallout content for the worse
Oh they literally admitted to it.
Fruad Howard, "I made sure the script matched the Lore." Give me a break. Bugthesda has always had it in for New Vegas given they screwed Obsidian Devs out of their bonuses by bribing Game Juornos to make sure FNV didn't make the Meta Critic Clause in their Contracts.
Juicehead is a shill and a click baiter.
He wants those ES6 early access codes like the rest of them.
"Everybody who disagrees with me is a shill"
@@jacobs6771 Really any game, he will shill for that reason.
@jbiehlable Not a feeling, I know it is.
Mkmantis is another braindead shill. But at least Juicehead don't get involved with drama, he is just a consoomer shill, while the other one is a two-faced discount Oxhorn.
This show just sounds like a hodge podge of different pieces from each Fallout game thrown together with no cohesiveness. Wouldn't be suprised to find out 'The Master' is still alive. Which begs the question, where are all the super mutants?
The year is almost 2300, there can't be many left.
@@Tattletale-Delta there can , super mutants live longer than humans and many of them became citizens of ncr
@@dangi6516 Not many, a handful. And they were barely tolerated, legally. Maybe 5% of SMs are sane. The rest are basically just raiders and by the show's time, 2296, most of them will likely have been killed off by the NCR and Brotherhood.
I wonder if Jacobstown is still around.
@@Tattletale-Delta I have to correct you here, what was left from Masters army either left California or join NCR . Super mutants are not barely tolerated, thanks to the NCR constitution, racism against non-humans is prohibited and punished (the further from the capital, the less respected, but still valid), that's why dwarfs, Ghouls, Slags and Super mutants are full citizens of NCR . In the west only the 2nd generation is aggressive, but they listen to the 1st generation so there is no problem. And NCR wouldn't kill super mutants, most SMs who are citizens of NCR are miners or soldiers, two very useful professions .
Btw, why is Shady Sands placed literally where the Cathedral was blown up?
Do you mean the LA Boneyard or something more specific?
@@EnclaveEmily yes, I mean that in the show, the area where Shady Sands was located would ironically work better as a callback to F1's Cathedral, since Shady Sands (the real one we know since 1997) was way up north and closer to Vegas, which would make tons of sense on how Hank managed to reach it on foot without dehydratating and dying of a stroke in that PA in the last scene of ep.8, instead of walking from LA/Boneyard to Vegas, which pose the question: how much stamina do he have !?
What really set my autism meter off is the fact that Shady Sands is located within the ruins of LA in the show but for over 25 years now, we've known that Shady Sands was located hundreds of miles away from LA based on in-game maps from Fallout 1 & 2.
Shady Sands is just outside of real-life Bishop, California. Literally on the other edge of Cali
In FO2, Shady Sands magically teleports 100+ miles to the west of where it was in FO1, along with Vault's 13 & 15.
@@Tattletale-Delta fair but to be fair,the location never moved to a conpletely different location that wasn't nearby
The also got the time of the bombs wrong. According to BETHESDA lore from fallout 3 and 4 They fell during the morning on the east coast. On the west Coast they would be still sleeping or at least getting up. Yet they had a whole party. Also the distance of the detonation is too close to the party. No one would survive. They even said that just before the bombs scene in the show itself.
The show is garbage
What gets me, is that dates aside, it makes what you do feel hollow. Fallout 1 and 2, you helped build up the NCR, made it a place where California and the West Coast would be free from the turmoil and violence of the wasteland. Your efforts were to stop the Unity and Enclave, but you did more than that. Seeing the NCR erased makes what you did feel much more hollow. And if New Vegas was destroyed, then it doesn't matter what ending is canon, if it all got wrecked, who cares, all you did was for nothing. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make NV non-canon, it makes it pointless.
Why would anyone expect the NCR to be stable in the long turn, when the games have always pushed the NCR as repeating the mistakes of the old world?
You would think a chalk board about the history of shady sands would have the year the city got destroyed(assuming that the writers/showrunners aren't implying that the fall/destruction of shady sands was in 2277). The chalk board being "vague" is just dumb. That darn chalk board is probably one of the biggest blight on the show, imo.
Oh that's the thing, they're not vague at all, they just don't understand how charts work. Because if after watching episode 8 of the the show, you think "when did they say Lucy's mom died?", you realize they were deliberately trying to make New Vegas impossible, but panicked when they got backlash.
@@EnclaveEmily thoughts on Todd saying new Vegas is still canon in a recent IGN interview?
panic, pure and simple. It's obvious they want to retcon it to be given freedom of what to do, but realized that the backlash was so strong that, with people now going to play the games, many for the first time, it won't be long before a lot of people realize the slop, and will stop consuming it. Consider the Fallout 76 attempted lore breaks with NCR Ranger Armor, or what happened to Starfield. They want people to keep consuming their slop, but they know that's less likely if they mess with it too much. So they give the bare minimum to let the lobotomized seals keep clapping.
@@Jimboh1637 Todd has never cared about lore or continuity. Nobody at Bethesda does. "We won't be beholden to something somebody wrote twenty years ago" was a line from Pete Hines when asked about how and why the BOS were included in Fallout 76. He can say it's still canon, but that's meaningless with his track record on lore.
lol the chalkboard prop is the biggest issue? You realise that the games have always pushed the idea that every source is either inaccurate and/or biased, etc? The board fits in perfectly with the games. Why are people suddenly expecting this to be a perfect source?
I believe you mixed up Shady Sands being around the Californian-Nevada border with like something with New Mexico at 7:10 but don’t worry it’s fine
yeah I did. Whoops
Hollywood tries to adapt something, shits on stablished canon thinking that they can do better than a lowly video game backstory, then they go on to prove that they don't have half the talent that those video game writers had.
You see that a lot in the rare cases video games are adapted to TV/movies. Movies and shows don’t really have lore or world building to the same extent. The Devs at black Isle created an amazing world that in my honest opinion even Bethesda has struggled with in their 3 entries to the series(3,4,76 I count NV as an extension of what BI did)
Nobody can really argue though that this isn't one of the best video game adoption out there though. NV Fanboys have been complaining over nothing when the show very clearly shows its love for it. They're literally setting up an entire season around it.
@@PepicWalrus love means nothing, it all matters on what they do to the story, they already killed a lot of the lore we love.
@@PepicWalrus I can understand the frustration of Fallout 1/2/NV's fans, the NCR got destroyed because of a reason that had nothing to do with all of the plot points that were set up in previous games (let's be honest here, the reason was pretty bad). The Master missing vaults in L.A right under his nose, the confusion with the dates and the nobody knowing what the "fall" of Shady Sands was supposed to be. Things got so bad that Todd Howard had to literally patch the show in an interview (the only time where it wasn't Todd's fault).
Also, New Vegas in ruins at the end of the season made me think "Well, guess nothing I did mattered, just like how nothing I did for the NCR in F1/2 mattered. Everything was destroyed anyway".
Lastly, the bar for "best video game adaptation" is set pretty low.
@jbiehlable I mean, don't act like both sides aren't doing that... This entire comment section is NV Fans glazing each other and shitting on the show. I personally am fans of both
another problem which isn't huge but bothers me is that there's no sense of time or distance in this show. When they exited vaut 4 I thought 4 or 5 days had passed since the start of the adventure but no, Lucy said she spent 2 weeks in the surface💀
didn't she say that before going into Vault 4?
6:12 “I think this reads pretty clearly” no the truth is that it makes absolutely no sense. Ignoring that the fall of shady sands itself in 2277 breaks the lore for just a minute. There are FIVE textboxes and FIVE dates and FIVE arrows. The ONLY implication of it being after 2277 is that there’s an arrow pointing to a picture with no text and more importantly NO DATE underneath it like EVERY other textbox has. I guarantee you that they meant Shady Sands disappeared from the map in 2277 but after being called out they retconned their retcon. It’s baffling it really is baffling. I feel like a teacher deducting marks for not including the date but it seriously was that simple.
I think Enclave Emily is an alternate reality version of myself that has the courage to make videos like this because every single point you've made is identical to mine. Empires don't "begin to fall", they "decline". Shady Sands isn't in LA, it's in Death Valley. The Master is blind if he missed *FOUR* perfectly good Vaults in his backyard.
This show is just a mess but we must mindlessly consoom because Vault, Ghoul, Nuka-Cola, Brotherhood, and Dogmeat.
If you're worried about reactions you might get to sharing your opinion, just have Sgt Dornan's voice call the MO-RONs in your head, and it becomes a lot easier. No, I mean it. Give it a try.
Bethesda is pissing on fans and doesn't even have the curtesy to call it rain....just like Disney with marvel and star wars also to anyone crying New Vegas elitist you're damn right why should any self respecting fan accept lesser quality product after a smaller third party studio made the series hit peak and it wasn't even finished like c'mon don't settle for piss labeled lemonade.
Dude is on the same smooth, brain rot wavelength as the show's creators. It was honestly painful to watch him argue his "points" that literally made no damn sense.
He stretched a bad argument that could be made in 2-3 sentences into a video with an ad optimised time and it hurts to watch
I applaud your zeal for the Series, After the show was released i just completely gave up on the franchise. I don't think there's any going back. Feels like star wars all over again
☠
You don’t even have to go that far for the TV show to ignore the game lore.
Vault 33…is in Los Angeles. More than that it’s got a really obvious upper structure and is right next to a notable pier.
Boy, sure is a good thing there isn’t anyone hunting down vaults based in Los Angeles, someone who knows where all the vaults in the region are roughly and could literally see Vault 33 out his window….
I honestly think the Shady Sands date was a mistake and they didn't actively try to retcon Fallout NV.
Like they didn't actively retcon Fallout 1 and 2. They just completely ignored it and made up all their own stuff, as if the old story never existed.
It just shows how well a grasp Tod and Emil have on the actual lore and how much they care.
@tirirana the show reinforces 2277. 5 times, to be specific, as I show in my review. If it was a single thing, I might believe it, but a lot of the plot revolves around when Lucy's mother "died", which all evidence points to being 2277
@@EnclaveEmily I agree. What I meant is that that date was put in by some writer who didn't know that it would break canon.
And no one at Bethesda caught it and now in typical Bethesda fashion, rather than admitting the date is wrong, they try to justify it, when there is no way to justify it.
2277 is just wrong.
@@tirirana16times details as Todd said...
In the final episode, it was said Shady Sands was nuked 20 years ago, and the show takes place in 2296. So, doing the math Shady Sands was nuked 2276, but this could be a tiny error. However, from what the dialogue of the final episode tell and the chalkboard show, the fall and the nuke are one in the same.
yeah when something happened around a round number, people approximate. But yeah, the show didn't so much as goof as it did try its best to retcon vegas, now bethesda is coping
@@EnclaveEmily yep
timestamp pls?
Just goes to show that you can’t just be willy nilly when it comes to language when describing history. When you say it’s “the fall of city X”, it is usually both the beginning and the end.
💀
The one thing I will concede throughout this entire dumpster fire that is the show, is the fall of the NCR itself. I can see it happen, and it would be a very serious and interesting concept to explore, FNV somewhat alludes to the problems the NCR is having, and it may be very possible no matter which ending is made canon.
If the NCR wins the second battle of Hoover Dam, then I wouldn't put it past their government to keep marching east, despite the massive problems the Mojave campaign brought them, leading to their forces being way too thinned out to hold any territory.
If the Legion wins, the NCR could get pushed back, probably past the outpost on I15, and god knows what would happen next. Maybe while they're licking their wounds and counting the massive losses they took, there could be riots that are started by civilians tired of war, or maybe the government decides to gear up again and have another massive assault on the Mojave region leading to more complications.
And finally, if New Vegas goes independent, the NCR still loses the dam, their tight hold on the region, and (assuming Mr. House is out of the picture and we go along the Yes Man ruote), they might even be driven out of the region.
There's a million different and much more interesting ways to write out the collapse of the NCR, but having some singular guy literally NUKE Shady Sands because "muh wife" is quite possibly the WORST way of going about it.
All of the silly copes and splitting hairs over the “fall of Shady Sands” and the visual timeline are totally irrelevant to the main problem - the show portrays the NCR’s infrastructure and nearly pre-war society as having completely collapsed within a generation after the destruction of Shady Sands, with the remnants of the faction being a few dozen generic Bethesda raiders. They've reverted things to pre-FO1 status quo lmao
No, stahp... you are using too much logic and lore! It is hurting npc heads :D
In my opinion the worst thing about the lore-breaking discussion is that's ALL people are talking about, and missing the hundred OTHER things that are wrong with the show. The production designs, sets and costumes are awesome, blindly people to how bad the plot, characters, dialogue and humour are, especially the humour, it almost always misses. The funniest scene was the BoS guy getting shot in the neck and realising he's alive, I laughed my ass off. But ehh, Maximus, what can I say, I can't stand pussies, he's just such a weak stupid character I just can't like him. The modern thing of "zero consequences" pops up soo many times, Lucy's finger cut off/immediately replaced, Lucy drink rad water, immediately meet Maximus and gets Radaway, Maximus stupidly loses his fusion core and immediately Lucy shows up to help him etc.
For me the biggest crime they did was changing Mr House’s personality so completely. It scares me that they are going to New Vegas when they didn’t understand such an important character in that game, but he did look like House.
The show is embarrassing.
The amount of people defending and praising it - soulcrushing.
I don't know any lore or played any games. But me and my dad enjoyed it. I love Walter goggins character. Lucy was ok. I thought Marcus and the brotherhood was kinda weak like this is the guys that are kinda in control/ are struggling with other factions. Other than that at least it's not halo god did they massacre master chief and the Halo franchise.
So due to one major retconn, everything else the show brings is compelely dogshit by your nv stan logic?
@@nottodaywillj2723 The writing is insultingly bad and terribly inconsistent. The "humor" is also obnoxious. It's just an all around bad show. The fact it doesn't fit with established lore, in spite of being canon to the games, is just another point against it.
@@nottodaywillj2723 well, other than Shady Sands; there are other things introduced in the show that break continuity, like how the Vaults that Lucy come from somehow weren't intruded upon by the master during FO1, the Brotherhood and Enclave returning again somehow (bonus points is the fact it's the East Coast Brotherhood and they're weird pseudo-techpriests now as opposed to esoteric but otherwise completely secular tech-hoarders of every game previous)
Dude, I've been through this before. My 3 favorite franchises are Star Wars, Halo, and Mass Effect. I had to deal with Disney and 343i (for Star Wars and Halo respectively) shills, all of which unbearable and delusional. I love Fallout, A LOT, so this is just another annoying moment of "true fans vs. corporate shills defending their newest slop rendition of a franchise they previously didn't care about."
We need to gate keep the og Fallout, and make the Fallout bible cannon. We also must stop purchasing Bethesda Fallout games good or not.
They have no response, they just say "why do you care" or they don't know the lore.
The ironic thing is that based of the shows own logic there could not be a different capital. The whole reason why shady sands was nuked was because vault Tec didn’t like that there was a powerful civilization so they nuked their base of operations. If shady sands was no longer the capital the would’ve nuked the new capital instead.