Windows On ARM Already Does That! Office, Photo Editing, Gaming, and MORE!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- TEAM SGG PATREON / somegadgetguy I still get a LOT of comments here, from people who don't really want to learn about current ARM PC offerings, but like to speculate and complain about what ARM PCs can't do. Before we start getting X Elite hardware, here's what older ARM PCs can do with SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful chips! It's a LOT more than you think...
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#Qualcomm #windowsonarm #microsoft
0:00 I'm a MOBILE nerd!
0:53 ARM PCs already Exist
1:37 Phones Show Us the Way
2:28 Testing the OLDER Snapdragon
4:05 Synthetic Benchmarks
4:57 Office Apps vs iPad and Android
6:12 Content Creation Apps
8:28 Browser Benchmarks
9:15 Gaming is Pretty Good!
14:17 Legacy Software and Hardware Drivers
16:34 It's time to move forward
18:02 Are you shopping a new laptop? - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Huge thank you to my Patrons! These videos would not be possible without their support! They get early access to my videos, like this editorial here www.patreon.com/posts/windows-on-arm-103062792
Can you post a link to the surface tablet used?
People are committed to holding an opinion from 5 years ago. Once a stigma is set, they don't take the time to see if things have changed. Confirmation bias reigns supreme.
Until "aVurAj cUnZooOmErZ" start buying them and then all the techies act like they totally predicted it would work THIS time. 🙄
As an audiophile, i NEED a fanless computer. Can't stand hearing fans while I'm wearing open-back headphones.
imagine coil whine kicks in
Yeah any fan noise makes using open backs a massive pain, getting a tablet finally made it possible for me to use a big screen alongside my grados!
@@paullebricoleur7873 try the Meze 109 Pro, best bang-for-buck headphones in existence, especially after you EQ them.
I've been saying this for years. My personal laptop that I'll grab when I'm going out for a day of coding is my Thinkpad x13s using the 8cx Gen 3. I love to so much that I wrote an entire article about it. I love that machine so much, and I look forward to the future of Windows on ARM
Link for the article?
Switch sized machine that will run my PC games while giving me more then 20 minutes battery life? Sign me up
It feels like we're getting SO CLOSE...
I mean we have gaming hanhelds from Asus rog ally which gets more than an hour of gameplay
Lenovo Legion Go?
@@SomeGadgetGuy And to think, at one point the best we got was a Passively Cooled Intel x7 chipset (Cherry Trail Atom) in Early 2015. Somewhat pathetic. Then came the Ultra-Low Voltage Intel-Y chipsets (aka Core-M) but very mixed results depending on your expectations. Things stagnated for ages, like 6 years long. Then AMD released the r5-5555u (Aerith) inside the SteamDeck which revitalised the market. Followed closely by the 6600u, 6800u, 7470u, and now the AI-8040u processor. All which bring shame to the level of performance and efficiency we were paying top dollar in 2018 to 2021.
The QC 8cx3 chipset was very good, it just lacked the software support. And to think we could have had this level of performance relative to the competition, had Microsoft got their stuff together. We got a pretty big jump in ARM from the late-2014 level of 32nm 4x Cortex-A17 under 4GB RAM. And upto the early-2016 level with 16nm 8x Cortex-A73 with 8GB RAM. With the use of Windows10 fixing many of the flaws from WindowsRT and 8/8.1 it was just a missed opportunity. Even more telling is the incompetence from the Surface lineup, which is an in-house for Microsoft to test the waters. Too bad the Linux community were not able to capitalise on that opportunity (lack of leadership, focus, funding, interest, etc etc). So we've had to put up with the (albeit excellent) iPad options, since the Android-ARM and x86-Windows options have not been viable or good competition throughout the decade.
Let's see how things evolve!
Man I don't know who's been chipping in the comment sections about arm on Windows but they have pissed Juan off ....
It's all over reddit. "But muh gaming" people.
@@lasue7244as usual, most “gamers” are knee jerk reactionaries who don’t bother to research beyond what they think something is. lol
I want an X Elite 4x4 mini PC. Seems like a total no-brainer.
Want. So. Bad.
That would be TOO dope 😭😭
That would be TOO dope 😭😭
We need to shove an X Elite into every form factor possible just to see what happens 😅
@@nicknorthcutt7680 Oh, yeah! 😁 😁 😁
Thanks a lot for making this video. Windows on ARM discussion seems to be so speculative online that it's hard to tell if *anything* even works at all...
Not a lot of people are using it, yet a lot of discussion's happening, so it's really a minefield of outdated information or just misinformation out there.
I'm so excited for ARM's big relaunch for windows laptops. I'm fully confident in Qualcomm's ability to provide genuine competition to AMD and Intel, which is a surprising twist for a third player in the laptop CPU market!
It's kinda because Qualcomm is leaving too much to the imagination. :/
@@yensteel The X elite laptops aren't released and Qualcomm already have made laptops chips in the past, used in actual laptops, that are functional and showcase Windows on ARM's capabilities perfectly.
What is there left up for imagination when all we're actually anticipating is a huge gain in performance, software wise the OS's already out there...
Yeah. That's the kind of chat we get a lot.
I can't blame commenters because the people who actually could better educate in the tech space don't follow up on less popular topics.
Even I had to scale back a bit after the Surface launch. TH-cam punishes your channel when videos underperform.
So all you get is a "week one" review, and then no one ever knows how the products improve.
And channels like mine don't get the traffic or the sharing that it used to.
A Robo and Kala tyoe device with the new Quakcomm arm chip would be of great interest to me. However if I could get a One+ flagship in a 24GB/1TB configuration running a Dex like emulation on a large OLED screen plus keyboard, that would be my sweet spot.
It's shocking to me that OPPO hasn't tried their hand at a proper desktop mode.
I really wanna see chips like these in a portable Windows handheld.
Competition amongst tech companies is good for consumers.
I cannot wait for the arm chips in pcs and laptops. It’s gonna be so cool! Low power consumption and high performance is gonna be brilliant
In the end, its all about the software. A good translation layer to run x86_64 software on Windows is needed for Windows on ARM to succeed until most major software vendors have native ports of their software.
I'd say we're in really good shape outside the brutally LEGACY apps that devs have refused to refresh, and rely on obscure or specific libraries and hardware.
@@SomeGadgetGuy 100%
I didn't need a gaming laptop because I had a powerful pc.
I didn't need a tablet because I had a poweful smartphone.
Then life happened I wanted a decent mobile device that was larger than the phone. I wanted to game on the go so I got a laptop, steam deck and rog Ally
I don't see the point in a arm windows laptop (famous last words😅)
There will always be those who are resistant to change and stubborn. Then there are those of us with more disposable income than common sense keeping the economy flourishing. 😅 (I wonder which snapdragon I'll get)
We are the geeks that keep the economy moving 😂
Windows on ARM has been bad. But I say you gotta be bad before you can be good. Windows on ARM looks like it's getting better.
it's gotten * a lot* better. Use it on a Mac M series platform if you have one to see the compatibility and speed.
They've tried and failed in the Windows 8 days. If they're trying again, it's a sign they're confident they have resolved critical issues.
@@yensteel I would hope that they do.
@@yensteelthat's my hesitation as well. Arm chips from back then are much different compared to today. That said, it's up to Microsoft to work with manufacturers and app devs to make there stuff work on arm as well as x86. Even apple had it right for the first year or so before converting everyone over to arm with Mac os. But I'm hoping there going to take the problems from back in the 8/rt days and make a product worth getting. Time will only tell though
It's not.
I need, we need Windows (Microsoft) to have mass support for Arm processors… That way we can get native BootCamp on Apple-Series and Hackintosh support for Arm processors!!!
I cannot open 2 excel files at the same time in android.
How can we use android for work if we cant even copy&paste from one file to another?
LG optimized their dual screen phones to allow for this. You can run office on one screen and then could run the exact same file using the word app or the Excel app etc.... interestingly the surface duo doesn't even let you do this and if you try to download any redundant Microsoft office apps it says they're not available on that device.
Yeah it's frustrating. There are flavors of MS365 that can, like if you use it through Dex you used to be able to open multiple word files.
I gave up trying to figure out what phones could properly do multiple docs open, and now I open one in a browser to copy into the app version when on mobile.
Of course, we won't have to find those workarounds on a proper PC OS.
Am excited that affinity works on ARM, For creative work. This just removes the barrier to entry
It's SLOW on the 8CX, but a little more oomph from the X Elite should help.
Really hoping they deliver ARM native versions soon.
The Surface Pro 10 on ARM is certainly one of the most anticipated launch
The hardware we already have on the 8 and 9 is great, really. Battery life was just average though
X Plus/Elite should take care of that
The SQ3 was really good for work out in the field if you turned off 5G. If we can stay in that power envelope, we're in for a treat on Windows tablets.
Qualcomm has been known to not being good with linux drivers. But I do genuinely hope this time they do it properly and yes I'd also love to see a steam deck with an ARM chip running games good even if it doesn't mean immediate comparability with all games.
I think it'll be awful at launch, but when businesses and IT departments start requesting support it should get better.
Does qualcomm have history work with linux?
Likely Valve consider using qualcomm assuming they're contributing linux.
It's worse than that. MS mandates secure boot for ARM PCs so you can't even run Linux period. These ARM PCs are trying to bring the Android model to PCs and people should not buy them
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv Good to get rid of infested linux from beautiful machines.
Good User Experience Design does not mean "I never thought about it." It means that problems were anticipated and solved before the user gets to them. This idea of frictionless everything means nothing is good for anything but you don't have to think about it. Idk I like having to think about what I want in a product but that's just me. I want amazing battery life especially in a laptop I don't game on my laptop I game on my PC
aVurAj cUnZooOmErZ!
How does ARM Lightroom run? I love how speedy Lightroom is on mobile, even if it is a bit more limited, but on desktop it can be pretty slow. Curious if the ARM version would feel 'snappier'?
This is what the Windows phones could have been had microsoft made the eco system more open source and more arm friendly.
Plug the phone into a laptop dock on the go, then step into the office and plug it into a dock station with mouse and keyboard and full enterprise network support.
kinda reminiscent of the "moto Atrix 4g" days. While moto does a great desktop mode support, a more powerful arm phone with great OS and MS office app support in a "modern arm windows" interface with legacy app support would be amazing for businesses.
IFKR! So many potential for Windows Phone to be a truly legit mobile PC OS. Just give Windows on ARM and improved Continuum, and we're all good to go. It's not like it'll hurt the Surface Pro/Laptop sales since you still need to get an external display like a lapdock to get the most out of Continuum, and not everyone is keen on it.
If qualcomm work / have history working with linux on kernel or open source capacity , likely valve can use qualcomm in next product.
Qualcomm is already driving most other AR and VR headsets. If Valve does a standalone follow up to index, what other chip would they use?
What I'm excited about and saw noone talking about is windows SR. For normal game upscaling it's the task of GPU, but in future Snapdragon chip it could be off load to NPU, so it may free up computing power for gpu and with the upscaling being more efficient with NPU
It's surprisingly decent on these older ARM chips too. My Robo&Kala was the first PC I had that supported the new Microsoft Photos app generative erase feature.
I just need it to work with music DAWs specifically Ableton Live. My use case for a laptop is running backing tracks so I don't even need plugins to work, just the DAW itself.
I want to give the ThinkPad X13s Gen 2 a try if Lenovo does end up making a second gen version of it.
Lenovo is HIGH on that list for me.
ARM in Windows laptops with insane battery life will be god sent
This is a well-written video. I appreciate your fine input especially about us letting go of our old windows apps in order for us to move on to the better future of (Windows on) ARM.
There are lots of things we should try to hold on to, but we also have to move forward with other tech innovation. It's a difficult balancing act, but I think Windows has been held back for too long.
That Dimensity beating that 8 Gen 3... Yup, I want more from Mediatek now.
The 9300 is kind of insane.
Adreno still better than Mali though so nah.
@@arkhalis3682The GPU in the 9300 *slightly* beats the 8 gen 3's GPU in performance per watt curves iirc
Efficiency is also such a critical factor to consider. I'm not sure why Qualcomm is pushing their Snapdragon X Elite chips so hard just to win benchmarks.
@@paullebricoleur7873 that's not the point. The point is Adreno can do emulation, Mali cannot.
Appreciate making these update videos on this subject 🙏. God bless.
While not ready to switch to ARM yet, I do appreciate efficiency. I code and design on old laptops and game on Ryzen 7735 miniPCs. I like these new APUs and rather halve resolution than quadruple power consumption. The advantages of on die GPU cores and unified memory will likely gut the GPU market for average gamers within 2 or 3 years. Probably why nVidia is moving toward AI as AMD and Intel are better situated for future PC graphics.
For me, I used my tablet for 80 to 90% of my computing and the other 10 is on my cheap Chromebook for importain emails (typing up docs etc) and more desktop friendly sites. I don't mind being locked down with Chromebook but even they have gotten way better on arm. That said if I can have full windows on an arm tablet that has proper compatibility with x86 apps and what not, sign me up. It would consolidate 2 products into one.
My only hesitation is I would wait to see how it performs as windows has attempted this before but with very poor results or compatibility issues. Apple going full arm might actually help them as many apps on Mac os are also on windows. It would be up to Microsoft to provide the means to port over without too many issues.
Also for the gamers, arm has some a long ways but as Juan mentioned, no one is getting rid of x86 gaming rigs. There here to stay for a while unless some huge performance breakthrough comes out for arm, which is really focusing on more effect nodes for efficiency and AI stuff. Raw performance can be similar to a x86 platform but that will come with cooling and tuning trade offs.
BioShock runs fine on my Surface Pro X since the Microsoft Corporation - System Hardware Update - 3/28/2024 has been installed on tuesday.
How do Android apps perform in Windows on ARM, on this device?
With Windows Subsystem on Android, pretty good. Shame Microsoft killed it.
Yeah. Kills me. This was outperforming the Galaxy tab S8, but we were stuck with side loading and the Amazon store.
I wish ms had just let developers sell ARM apps directly in the MS app store.
@@SomeGadgetGuy 😢
What I would like to see is a gaming handheld that can triple boot Windows Android and Linux. That's totally up to Qualcomm in what platforms they support with drivers, but I think it's technically feasible.
They just announced upstreaming better linux support. I would love to see a Steam Deck on an ARM chip.
There needs to be a sort of compatibility layer, like Rosetta, for Windows on arm. The old driver situation would be a series problem too if that wasn’t included in some sort of compatibility layer.
when u see what Mobox can do with SD 8gen3 i get really curious to see what X elite/plus will do with way more CPU power and X2 the memory bandwidth
+ i think it's safe to hope that Qualcomm and Microsoft 4will do a better work with the emulation and drivers then 3ed party...
too bad the GPU didn't not get much boost from the 8gen3 to the X elite, really hope the memory bandwidth and drivers will do the job.
I think Qualcomm made the right play for the first SDX, and they worked really hard to say this was NOT going to compete against gaming laptops, but I'm with you on wanting a beefier GPU as a follow up.
@@SomeGadgetGuy just to think about the options it can have with a strong GPU, if the windows emulation is good it could be amazing replacement for the 7840U/Z1E for handhelds...
or maybe some valve magic for a steam deck 2.
+ I bet NV watching that carefully because if it will go well it's only matter of time until we will see NV do the same move.
Got finally my "Life of Brian" blu-ray back, connected my over 10 years old Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive to my Surface Pro X, ripped it with MakeMKV and converted it to H.265&AAC with Handbrake (H.265 Media Foundation Encoder).
been on this wave since you reviewed the LG V60 with the DualScreen a few years back... You spitting again my boy
I often use Win11 on my M1 Mac Mini and play Asphalt 8. Runs as well as it does on either the Mac Mini natively or on my R5 7600/RX 580 desktop. I suspect the X-Elite will run most things fine at launch, and much better in a few months to a year
Yup! I've been using a last gen Snapdragon PC, and even when emulating x86, it's roughly as powerful as an 11th gen Core i3. Folks acting like "ARM can't catch X86" or "average consumers only care about legacy apps" are REALLY out of the loop with what ARM PC's can already do.
Why can't we have a future where Linux acts as the "Android" of Arm based laptops and tablets, with each OEM having their own spin at linux with their own distros, just like various Android skins, that would be so exciting. Linux just looks like the perfect OS for arm devices!
We cant get there until consumers buy more of these machines. It's always been the long term goal though. We might be able to break through with gamers though. Imagine a machine that's more powerful than a Core Ultra 7, but consumes less power than a steam deck. That's running Linux...
Honestly, I’m waiting for the Snapdragon machines to launch. It’ll determine whether I end up with another Mac or come back to Windows for my daily driver.
For recent MacBook converts, it's gonna be nice to have some competition.
Juan comment I'm a big fan you made me buy a V60 damme you!!!
You are a G, I'm sure it's nervous making these videos but you have the love of the LG Community!!!
Caught the V60 cameo huh? 😁
Microsoft prematurely killed the windows phone. I saw some tech gurus here on youtube tinkering old oneplus to run windows 11. It was only lacking the mobile mode.
Now that we have Windows on ARM, there should be no problem for Microsoft to resurrect the Lumia line with modern SoC and upgraded Continuum. I totally doubt it'd hurt the Surface Pro and Surface Laptop sales.
@@farishanafiah8461 I think so too. Back in the day they introduced a desktop mode on some lumias which mimicked the windows os but it wasn't a full windows. They can resurrect windows phone if they wanted too. Windows 11 is able to emulate android environment so there will be no scarcity of apps unlike before.
I have used the surface 9 5g and own the same Robo and Kala tablet, both have very good performance for my needs. I think I am a good representation of the everyman because i don't have any major needs for my pc as it is for personal use and not some business or side gig. You are absolutely correct about SQ3 already being good. I feel like it was underutilized and as you said too expensive. Also, it seems there is the obsession with comparing everything to the Apple m series. People talked about the M1 is so powerful but then the SQ3 is like 3/4 of the performance and then all of a sudden it is slow? Anyways great video.
Yeah, techies riding the hype train rarely do a good job of putting these things in good context. Whatever is the most popular, will get them the most views, make them more money, so it's "the winner" and everything else is "the loser".
I love this video. Personally I've chosen the minisforum V3 this year... I would have loved to see this one with the latest SD. I'm afraid that SD devices (Surface...) will be too expensive again. But at least the V3 allows me to use some Smartphones with it (as display), so I also have an ARM setup... right? 😂
Heck yes you do 😁
A bit of an aside, but it would be interesting to see a company put x elite in ab android tablet. If apple does it with ipad pro why not right?
I'd be curious what the benefit might be if the OS cant make use of that performance.
Great points, and thanks for this.
Maybe one day I'll get one, odd gaming session, work and write and edit as needed. Tinker with Linux because I can. Good.
I think it'll be fun.
I'm a huge fan. Thank you for making these videos!
Thank you for watching/sharing/commenting on them 😊
Cant diabale secure boot so that means Im not buying them. I absolutely REFUSE to buy ANYTHING with a locked bootloader
a foldable rollable phone tablet with win11 and android support on ARM while a launcher icon or app or button is pressed , can be really a game changer for a 16-24gb phones as you can have the best of both worlds
The biggest challenge for Windows on ARM isn't trying to compete with x86 on high power draw. Its actually x86 scaling down to low power, high efficiency performance. AMD and Intel have slowly but surely squeezing more performance into lower wattage machines. By the end of 2025 AMD and Intel will be able to compete directly with ARM if they stick to their roadmaps. Apple will lose their edge but Qualcomm may not even find a foothold in the market before they are deemed irrelevant.
That's good to know. I use legacy music software from 2009 - the developer abandoned it, but I use it regularly. Emulation and translation only get you so far - especially if it's used in a live production environment.
I made the move from Apple to PC when Rosetta stopped translation of 32-bit binaries. Microsoft has been a friend to legacy support, but nowadays I could see them following suit.
That's why us ARM needs have been yelling about better competition in this space for a long while now.
We haven't been getting better laptops. We've been getting good "portable desktops".
So if AMD and Intel can catch ARM by the end of next year, that'll be awesome. I kinda doubt X86 will actually deliver the same performance in fanless systems by then, but if they can, but we wouldn't have gotten it without ARM rocking the boat.
Well said Juan. This video should be shared in every forum.
My desktop is my powerhouse PC. I have a laptop that has a weaker CPU and GPU, but I'm perfectly happy with it. Emulation also has been getting really good. I need to try to get Windows 95 emulation going, but considering a PlayStation 3 can be emulated really well on the laptop, Windows 95 should be easy.
For legacy, emulation can make it possible. The big thing to nail with emulation though is latency. If Microsoft can get a control on latency, it's even less to worry about.
I want a laptop that can last all day long on battery, hopefully this arm based window is the answer
I would love an arm laptop.
Sadly my laptop is my main system at the moment and arm just doesnt give enough performance for what i want to do with it.
as an engineer , hope Autodesk will make native software for Windows on ARM
I'll be very surprised if they don't get on board after this launch.
Imagine Apple being the first to get it. 🤭🤭
My main concern with Office on ARM is how well it handles all sorts of formats in files, which is the problem I've been having with other open source office suites. UI usually isn't much of an issue.
Pretty sure Office works natively on Mac M1's without any hitches so it should be fine on arm.
@@Simulati0n Maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly, but I'm concerned about how the formats stay intact when a file created in an x86 device is opened in Office on ARM, or vice versa. My experience with Office on Android and iOS certainly are not inducing confidence. Things like embedded vector objects, pictures, fonts, margins, animations, page sizes are all things I've experienced issue with.
There is no special flavor of "docx for arm". Office files are office files. The file doesn't need to be translated to work on different CPU architectures. The office app is compiled to run on ARM, and then it supports all the same office files as an x86 machine. Formatting hasn't ever changed on my excel spreadsheets.
@@SomeGadgetGuy There also need not be difference in docx for desktop and docx for mobile, but somehow there is.
I already have an x86 machine at home in the shape of Intel NUC 11 Enthusiasts, so I don't need another x86 machine for mobile travelling. That's why I keen so much on the next step of Windows on ARM. You can miss me about macOS, I'm not a fan of it.
P.S. Would love to see Robo & Kala made a second-gen successor with X Plus/Elite SoC.
I really hope they do a follow up. R&K hardware is so pretty.
Have you Tried W11 24H2/Build 26100 on your arm devices yet? Its supposed to handle arm alot better! Including better x86/amd64 emulation.
as far as i know Snapdragon SOCs are capable of hardware video encoding but didn't find any proof where it has been leveraged in video editing software (Windows or android) hopefully it'll work in the X Elite and we might get outstanding performance similar to the M series from Apple.
I am really rooting for Windows on ARM. I've liked ARM since forever. I can't wait to see the X Elite. I actually plan on getting an X Elite laptop when they start coming out
Has anyone used msi afterburner on arm processors? I mainly interested in overclocking the cpu and gpu since I use msi afterburner with every gaming windows device even with non msi devices. I maxed out the cpu and gpu sliders intentionally when I overclock the cpu and gpu and I always max out the ram speeds on purpose with xmp. For my 4k high end gaming pc from 2019 for my ddr4 ram is set to xmp with 4000 mhz with the g skills trident z royal with the latency at 17 with the timings at 17-17-17-37 with 32gb of 4 sticks of ram. I really wanted the 4600 mhz g skills trident z royal samsung b die ram since my motherboard maxes out at 4600 mhz but only 16gb of samsung b die ram was only available and I wanted 32gb of samsung b die ram specifically for overclocking the ram and because 16gb of ram is not enough. I use the intel core i9-9900k desktop cpu with the msi godlike motherboard, noctua nh-d15 cpu cooler and evga 2080 ti ftw 3. I also have 3 samsung 970 evo plus nvme ssds, 2 samsung 860 evo sata ssds and a seasonic prime titanium 1,000 watt power supply. The 11gb of vram is not enough on the 2080 ti.
Hope this succeed and i believe it will so microsoft will finally return phone market with arm win32 capabilities.
I wish I could run Windows on my snapdragon phone,that would be great, not nedding to buy anything else. A shame that dex still doesn't behave like a desktop even when just browsing the web.
DeX is still Android at heart. It can be a great Chromebook replacement, but definitely not for Windows. Heck, there's still no straightforward solution to use desktop Linux inside Android.
See why locked bootloaders are bad?
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv Its even worst than that. I cant even use governement apps if I unlock it here in brazil
All I wanted was the REFERENCE TAB on word on a tablet keyboard android setup for long long battery life slim forget it’s there profile in my bag.
I was unaware of the drama... and of Windows on Arm's existing capabilities. Ever since the Deck came out, my desire for gaming on laptops plummeted, but even without a Deck, thanks to your explainer, I would be willing to game on Windows on Arm. (And if I wasn't... I have way too many devices that can game already. Including some old dockable Arm tablet with detachable controllers... I think it's a Japanese design from 2017?)
We want these laptops to do well so we get these chips in a steam deck like form factor next year 😁
@@SomeGadgetGuy hell even a future Switch!
Qualcomm just published an experimental build of debian for X Elite... Running Steam OS on one of these would be pretty sweet...
Of course I am excited for the next level of laptop ARM. If the Kompanio 1380 Spin 513 Chromebook had been released with the 714's storage and an FHD webcam I'd probably be on laptop ARM right now!
I'd imagine that the cost of these X Elite machines is going to be such that it will be a couple years before I jump in, but my next main laptop will definitely be an ARM laptop.
Maybe Intel and AMD need to trim down x86 more for regular consumers now to actually compete. It doesn't make sense to include it when Windows themselves might not include it in regular version of their OS.
how so? Don't think Windows will abandon x86/x64 anytime soon as a lot of legacy solutions (especially in the enterprise market) depend on it.
I'm wondering, if x86 has too many legacy instructions (A supporting argument for Risc V), could software emulation help with that? It could cut down costs and reduce area. It likely won't trim much, but enough to make a difference.
The bios and OS will have legacy instructions removed, but any software that still needs legacy instructions will not break. They're so old they should be easy to run too.
So far, the two companies AMD and Intel said no, it's not worth it. But sooner or later it will be.
@@yensteel i believe the legacy instruction is the first thing it goes through, hence why simply making it via emulation layer won't work.
@@ocvjw8734 I'm not saying they should, especially for enterprises and businesses. But regular consumer, maybe it's the better that most of the legacy support to be trim down.
@SomeGadgetGuy supposedly one of the benefits of an ARM chip you get an instant wake, like your mobile.
I literally cannot find a single video of this. Is this true/can you show me this?
+ liked. good video mate
Windows sleep rules still kinda suck. MOST of the time I push the power button on my R&K, it fires right up, but every now and then it hibernates into a deeper sleep, and it requires more of start up. I can't determine what triggers that hibernation, as it doesn't seem tied to time or battery remaining.
@@SomeGadgetGuy appreciate your response! cheers mate
I love the idea of arm, but like you pointed out, legacy software support isn't perfect. It is getting better and better, and that is great, but my concern is with future software. programs designed to run on arm are very dependent on the hardware being exactly how they expect it, look at the orange pi the raspberry pi and the long list of other arm based single board computers, its not like you can just take a program from a android phone and run it on em, it doesn't work like that. that's my concern, weather its a game or utility, or whatever, theirs a chance it just wont work on the next revision of the hardware. that is my only concern with windows on arm. other than that, it is pretty cool.
Galaxy tab S9 storage can be added via SD card.
Yes although I'm pretty sure he was referencing upgrading the SD entirely
@@michaelcorcoran8768 I think so too.
i love kdenlive! been waiting for an android port for a while. excited for more arm stuff!
Would kill for a mobile kdenlive.
I'm a huge fan. This is why I'm against fanless ARM computer.
Can you speak up? I can't hear you over the fans of this creator laptop...
Well i do agree with him that a phone might be enough for video editing i would still prefer my ARM Tablet mostly for screen size is helpful for video editing and 3D modeling.
The difference from 1 L40 and whatever Qualcomm has on their SoC for video editing is huge for video encoding but for video editing it will be the same. You go from minutes on a L40 to maybe hours on the Qualcomm SoC. The down side is the L40 GPU draws more power at 350Watts when under 100% load and has to be in a PCie gen 4 x16 electrical and physical slot for it to be fully utilized or you are just leaving performance behind.
Now when you get back down to what people who have to mind how much money they are spending like a RTX 4070 and below i do agree with him the newest software on an ARM processor can encode videos quicker though with less encoding options. For TH-cam it will have enough options same for Twitch as they share the same supported video support. So it goes to where you want to use non-standard video encoding with non-standard audio encoding for whatever reason. VLC and MLC are good with decoding those videos but TH-cam and Twitch are not. The iPhone and Android just will not allow you to do so forcing you to use the standard settings.
Now for like the majority of tasks the avg consumer does ARM is good enough to do them with a few modifications for the user to make as it is windows for ARM not windows for x86. Mostly get the ARM version of software not the x86 version of it.
I like to say Windows on ARM was far earlier a thing than you praising it for. Sadly the tech crowd was too stupborn to see it.
I have a Lenovo Yoga with an Nvidia ARM CPU and Windows 8 on ARM. It worked beautifully back then. Win 8 with an touchscreen, awesome. The processor did everyday task more than good. Surfing the web, wachting youtube. Everything was possible back then. Also games did work. Okay, had only phone games but they are fun too.
But everything you could read about it in the news, reviews and so on. It got destoyed. Too sad.
Nowadays I don't want Windows on ARM anymore. Because I moved away from Windows. But I still want a decent ARM Computer. But with linux or BSD please
If you want Linux on ARM, your best bet is Raspberry Pi.
Yeah I abbreviated the RT days because techies can't handle that kind of nuance. They hear RT and then the entire conversation is sidetracked by how it was a fail.
As for Linux support on x elite, I don't think we'll get good support unless this first wave of Windows machines do well with businesses. Then there will be enough corporate pressure to encourage Qualcomm to support Linux.
Either that or you start with WSL. The 8CX runs Linux apps like a champ.
ARM is bad for Linux, MS mandates secure boot to be enabled for ARM devices and you can't load custom keys
I think it would be cool if gaming pc's could use arm, maybe one day
I'm waiting for Windows on ARM with buying a laptop. I can't afford MacBook, so I'm very excited for Snapdragon X Plus this year:D
i use poco f1(sd845) to install windows 11
It's crazy how well windows can run older phone chips. Not something I'd want to daily, but it's a fun project.
@@SomeGadgetGuy Its very help me so i can learn coding now & i don't need to go internet cafe again Its safe my money
@@SomeGadgetGuyI remembered the Snapdragon 850. That was basically Snapdragon 845 for Windows on ARM. No idea why Qualcomm won't do the same with modern Snapdragon mobile chipsets.
Fanless is a huge draw for me. Especially since it's ideal for productivity and rpg gaming
Exciting I noticed I get much better battery life with my i7 1355u on best power efficiency mode on battery. So I'm excited to see how ARM would obviously be able to blow that efficiency out of the water on Windows systems.
I imagine that is Windows laptops didn't have that nice 2 in 1 form factor or gaming laptop specs, they'd lose so much mor market share. Chromebooks have taken over the sub $300 dollar range, where a non 2 in 1 $1000 laptop without a dgpu is Mac territory.
glad to see windows is finally working good on arm. in the beginning it sucked so hard...
It's been pretty good for a while now.
if only microsoft release emulation codes open source, it will help with lots of capable developers on board around the globe to make x86 on ARM as normal as possible. i'm more interested in dual fold & dual rollable device which means a 6.7inch phone can simply convert to a max 15.3inch tablet or laptop mode . also a replaceable upgradeable board with SOC+memory+fans or pipelines for future path will be nice and probably sth that framework or clevo may use for future devices.
for me legacy programs are very important when the company refuses to upgrade it, or making something that's worse... so the new version sucks, and you need the legacy. but... if they can emulate this well, I'm good to move on
Holding off buying a new laptop until these new snapdragon arm laptops come out. Currently use a surface pro 7 with an i7 and its great , except for battery life. And the way it performs on and off battery is def not the same.
Yeah. LOTS of PC nerds love telling me how much more powerful their gaming laptops are, but I know they aren't talking about running on battery 😄
I'm hoping the new chips come with good Linux support like they say is possible. Windows is kind of a becoming a dumpster fire
I think Linux support will be awful at launch, but when businesses and IT departments start requesting support it should get better.
They won't. ARM = locked down. Just go try to buy an Android phone with a unlocked bootloader and see how much it sucks
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv Thats not true. Windows ARM devices are generally not locked down and you can disable secure boot in the EFI.
Keep on Keepin on Primo! 🙂
ARM is making a bundle ($) nowadays with licensing I would think.
It's so crazy that ARM was using Qualcomm over the different kinds of licensing fees.
@@SomeGadgetGuy
Please forgive me, but Apple? M1/2/3.
Choice is good for consumers and market competition. I'll stick with Wintel ❤❤
Microsoft should just make Windows modular and platform-agnostic. Build it as a software layer over a Linux kernel. :D Man, I can hear the purists screaming bloody murder at the mere THOUGHT of Windows being Linux-based, can't you? Hehehehehehe. I shouldn't think out loud when I'm just waking up.
LOL what if, WHAT IF, we just put Linux INSIDE Windows 😅
@@SomeGadgetGuy nah, they already did that, and cool, but not super impressive. 🙃
As a lazy millennial snowflake I need it wrapped in late 80s early 90s nostalgia and it has to be acronized to WOA (pronounced WOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHH)
Montage of old 90s Keanu Reeves saying "whoa".
well, performance per watt for sq3 is literally shit
owner of both sq3 and ryzen 5 7535u and ryzen is much much better. Hope this will change with this new chips
Well yeah, 8CXg3 is more than a year older in design, but still arrives at an overall lower TDP than the ryzen. Better for low power tasks, but at the high end, the ryzen definitely beats it in X86 apps.
If you're digging the better performance per watt of X86 (especially seeing AMD take that more seriously than Intel) you have the pressure from ARM chips to thank.
@@SomeGadgetGuy its even more than that. I've did some testing with setting the power saver mode (probably 15w tdp, not really sure TBH)
Ryzen did better job on doing almost everything consuming only 22w while surface's number is closer to 25+ all the time with lower scores. And its not only emulation, chrome is very similar for me
I blame the manufacturer of SQ3, that is Samsung, so it's the same as for exynos chips so we'll see what will come with this new chips. if this is TSMC then I believe they could get close to what they are anounced. well, I've already spent a good chunk of my budget for surface so not really sure if I want to test this things again (that is probably will be an issue even if the new chips are really nice)
windows is getting on my nerves harder and harder. i m moving to linux, it can do most things easy these days. don t care about windows tablet until they have a decent OS
The trick to the 8CX, it runs Ubuntu and Linux apps really well in WSL.
@@SomeGadgetGuy yeah but running ubuntu under windows does not make sense to me
The Switch is not a good example of good gaming. FYI, x86 computers can emulate the Switch without breaking a sweat.
LOL. I'm saving this screen shot.
"The most successful console of this last generation, with a wildly underpowered SOC, is NOT a good example of how far we can drive the gaming experience on an ARM chip."
Ok... Sure...
😂
What about coding?
I want this to sucseed but, I recently bought a ryzen 6800h (an apu that's almost 2.5 year old now) miniPC with 32gb and 2tb for $290. It's gpu performance in gaming looks to be around %250 of this . I suspect that it handles cpu tasks probably even better since it doesn't need to bother with x86 emulation. I don't see the incentive for windows users to pay more for a slower non-proven tech (yet) .
Btw the HP EliteBook 865 HD the same chip on a laptop and was getting upto 22 hours.
Yeah the 6800h is a great chip. It can't do anything you're describing for long on battery and the fans will crank.
But you do you.
Microsoft's fan base is the worst. Think about windows rt would have taken off where we would be now we would have had better software compatibility. Think about if it's fans would have let them do wat they originally had planned on Xbox one where we are now. Microsoft is ahead of innovation before anyone.
No joke. Plenty of issues with RT and supporting developers, but we could have been so much farther along. Microsoft should have carved out a part of the surface line and treated it like apple does changes to the Mac.
People fail to understand that x86 is like having a Ferrari Sports car with a LADA engine.
Get rid of x86, Microsoft is itching to drop it, but afraid of losing business, so they keep catering to the antiquated crowd that are scared lil girls, with Mega Huge GPU and CPU, Power sucking time machines, with a LADA engine.
And I don't begrudge someone who wants to build a crazy workstation. I have a thread ripper and a 4070ti. But I don't want that kind of architecture in a portable machine.
@@SomeGadgetGuy
I build them too.
Referring to antiquated x86.
It's like having dos on win 11, which we do lol.
I don't have an issue with ARM PCs being an *option*, my issue is that a lot of the ARM PC fans I have talked to want them to completely replace all consumer X86 PCs and make them obsolete, and when asked "What about my old software" or "what about my games" I am just told, no joke, to switch to Linux, compile it myself if it's FOSS, and/or just give up on my incompatible software/games and switch to new ones that are ARM compatible. Has not exactly put a good taste in my mouth towards ARM computing when most of the proponents of it have basically been telling me "It's going to kill your PC and you will have to give up all your old software/games anyway, suck it up." And if you're going to tell me that my entire 1500+ Steam library is going to be ported to ARM, or even all be playable through an emulation layer, then I have a RTX 5090 to sell you for $15.
(Also I would like to point out, constantly bringing up the Switch is not the slam-dunk argument you think it is. Even most Nintendo fans have been arguing for years the Switch is way too underpowered for many of even the 1st party titles it's been getting lately.)
Literally the first line of the video.
And while folks complain about the switch being under powered, and it is, still doesn't mean Nintendo hasn't squeezed every dime out of that platform they could.
Whenever techies act like more powerful ARM chips in currently available gaming hardware "aren't good enough for gaming", they sound like total morons.
@@SomeGadgetGuy My argument is not an issue of power, it's an issue of compatibility.