I've been asked FOR YEARS to do a WC3 Heroes tier list... Here it is.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- I've been asked FOR YEARS to do a WC3 Heroes tier list... Here is it. (Live on 15-April-2024)
Looking for the Level 10 Warden game mentioned at 42:03?, here it is: • [LEGENDARY] NEVER. GIV...
Catch me live all days of the week at: / grubby
Join my community on / discord
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:00 Blademaster
00:03:16 Farseer
00:07:13 Tauren Chieftain
00:11:08 Shadow Hunter
00:18:30 CryptLord
00:21:19 Lich
00:25:00 Death Knight
00:27:23 Dreadlord
00:29:35 Demon Hunter
00:31:55 Keeper Of The Grove
00:35:27 Warden
00:38:41 Priestess Of The Moon
00:42:23 Paladin
00:45:40 Bloodmage
00:51:52 Mountain King
00:54:00 Archmage
00:58:09 About Tavern Heroes
01:04:08 Beastmaster
01:06:30 Alchemist
01:09:26 Goblin Tinker
01:13:23 Firelord
01:14:50 Naga Sea Witch
01:19:48 Pandaren Brewmaster
01:23:33 Dark Ranger
01:26:12 PitLord
#GrubbyTalks #Thoughts #Tierlist #WC3 #Heroes - บันเทิง
I don't even play the game but I need that information
same😂 i prefer watching than playing nowadays
I don’t play either but I watched the whole thing lol
We have all installed the game after watching Grubby, thinking we can execute 1% of what he is doing. Then as soon as a fight happens, you completely freak out, A click in your whole army and get deleted while you're trying to just find and select your hero. Apm at 1 per day.
I'll stick to watching Grubby thank you very much.
@@anbuhyuga8299 Bruh, few years ago I went to internet caffee to play some vidya with friends. WC3 was chosed. I thought I had it since I played it my entire childhood. I got erased by a guy who said he played it a few times.
Hear hear
Not me watching this instead of sleeping even though i last played this game a decade ago
I haven't played WC once, yet i still watch these videos, something very soothing about them 😅
same bro, and i enjoyed it
@@Deceit-hx7ey Because grubby speaking about his craft is ASMR
Same, except two decades ago xD
Exactly this, why is this so interesting that u ruin my sleep over this :D
To this day I find it funny that Priestess' picture shows her Tiger instead of the Priestess herself. 😸
I realized this today lol.
And that tiger is just a glorified horse. It doesn't do anything. No ability linked to it at all.
She IS the tiger, just happens to let a night elf archer ride her for extra dps =)))))
@@alexpopescu8137 you know too much... (casts shadow strike)
To this day
This video is perfect to picture how good the hero protraits are great. So much personalities with so few pixels. Great artworks!
💯
The only one I can complain about is Priestess of the Moon.
Unless you think the tiger is the hero and the priestess is just an accessory.
@@kevingriffith6011well, it is 😅
@@zurcburc Clearly the modders need to get out there and give the priestess a tiger head and put a giant night elf head on the tiger.
@@kevingriffith6011 Well when you look at it from a Kid's point of view, that's the best part of it. I picked PotM every time because cool pretty Tiger haha
If I saw a Sylvanas clone, I would've passed
-"Pitlord was a mistake"
Grubby Miyazaki
"RaRa cleave, then they leave" -Grub'Tsu, Art of Warcraft.
So out of context lol
Noooo, they're one of my favorites! :'(
Pitlord did nothing wrong :((((((
I don't play WC3 since many years now. But this game was just a bit part of my childhood and... I listened 1 hour straight even if it's kind of useless. I just loved to hear your explanations about so much things I loved back in the days. Nostalgia is so strong...
Just come back :)
Grubby, you didnt mentioned one of the most important features of hex, as well, it changes armor type of unit to medium. So it takes additional damage from normal and 100% from spells and magic.
And evasion is disabled, right? At least is how it works in Dota. Haha
I... Never knew this
This is not true unless it's been changed recently in Reforged. Heroes retained hero armor in hex when I used to play.
I dont think it's a right feature
I appreciate the historical background for each hero. I didn't realize they changed so much since 2003! Thank you!
I also super enjoyed as a dota wc3 player that I could intuit a lot of what he was saying about heroes before he said it. Dota has a similar incredibly interesting history with balancing and many of these abilities are present in some form on various dota heroes.
You actually were right the first time. Cleave damage ignores armor entirely. You can see this against knights, which have very high armor. The pit lord will often be doing more damage to the knights that are cleaved than the one he is actually attacking
lol the first time means is this his first correct statement?
which is also the reason stacking battle furys and attacking everything but the main target was a thing in original dota iirc
I guess the rationale is that the cleaved damage is the one dealt to the first unit, that is, after that one is reduced by that first unit armor, right ? Aka, to not be reduced twice by armor. Or the cleave damage is its base damage ?
@@Winnetou17 That's how you would intuitively think it would work, but I've tested it in the past and the cleave damage is based on the damage before reduction from armor. Cleave level 3 does 90% damage, so as long as the unit you're hitting has more than 10% damage reduction from armor, you're actually doing more damage to the cleaved units than the main one
Example, with simplified values for clarity:
Pit Lord is doing 100 dmg, with level 3 cleave (90%)
PL hits a knight that has 5 armor. Let's say that provides 20% dmg reduction
3 other knights are within cleave range of the first knight
The first knight will take 80 dmg, and the other 3 will take 90 dmg
@@bryansweeney3077 Come to think of it, if it was as I said it in the previous post, you couldn't have done more damage to those behind, that was a brain fart on my part.
Thanks for the info. I remember now from Sven too from DotA :))
18:18 It got changed back in 2011 with patch 1.25b: "Hex will no longer disable mana or health regeneration of Heroes."
46:45 "The moment you are starting to get su**ed... the su***ing continues for some time" getting me a bit flustered Grubby
It is also really interesting because, like your tier list points out, Elf heroes really aren't that strong. You almost always have to go DH to try and shut down the enemy hero instead. But the race is entirely held up by the strength of Staff of Preservation. Staff makes it so ridiculously hard to get a pick and basically acts like a pseudo hero ability. Human also gets a Staff, but way later with a much longer cooldown and root.
Something I think is really broken and underutilized, is picking up items from other races in team games. Staff on Orc is broken stupid, but you never even really think about running over to the Elf to pick it up. You can slap Orb of Corruption on your Shadow Hunter for a ridiculous hero killer. Or power creep with Salve, although your Orc will probably get big mad if you keep buying their stock. I remember making a 4v4 strat of just building Orc shops in my ally bases to supply them with fast expansions and healing salves, and business was boomin'.
Why is that for the shadow hunter ? Do you mean hex change the armor type and the orb reduces it ?
8:56 "Endurance aura effects every unit around him, fr fr, no cap"
End aura is bussin' making me look mid
enduranceauramaxxing ngl
Panda is the best neutral hero evasion and critical
On god.
I think Grubby is not taking into account that the reasons he gives for feral spirit S rank are all much more micro intensive than any other S ranked hero. The early game that apm is affordable, but less so as the game progresses.
Hard to put FS and AM side by side and conclude they should be the same rank.
Holy shit! That story at the end was top notch. People who dont watch all the way through are gonna miss such a gem.
"breakers, sorcerers, and priests, and those three units just happen to be among the best in the human race"
Not one human in them haha
"Once again, it's up to the elves"
*Garithos noise intensified*
"humans" have 3 human units, 3 dwarfs, 4 elves, and 2 machines that should also count as dwarfs. Why do we call them humans?
@@marcinkusmierzak991 It's a carryover from WC1 and WC2. The same way "Orc" has a bunch of other races as The Horde. But they're Orc as a race in WC3.
@@Lefuzain russian localisation 2004 orc is "Horde" and human is "alliance ", although the translation is not accurate like Abomination called just butcher, it was old age of goofy translators but it made fun cringe moments for us pirates like Star wars kotor or gta sa earliest localisations
I have not been asking or waiting for this, but its about time we got a hero tier list from the lord of Warcraft. Now we also need a map and unit tier list. Very nice. This is so much more than just ranking heroes, this is like a tutorial for beginners and at the same time so much information for vetaran players.
I had to look up a video showcasing shadow hunter because i realized ive never seen big bad voodoo ever
Cryptlord was my favorite hero. I always thought it was amazing that in the middle of a fight he could use his swarm heal and be ready up for another fight. Kinda sad that he ended up that low. :(
Tbf, it's mostly due to Crypt Lord being an Undead hero, meaning that its competition is ridiculously stacked. The general consensus for CL is that it's a good hero fighting for the hero slot against amazing heroes (because Lich and Death Knight are cracked).
At least it's a better solo hero than Lich and most mercenaries
Aww, now I'm sad on your behalf and also recognize myself a bit. I always tried going either Crypt Lord or Dreadlord first, as I think both of them are cooler than the Lich and certainly than the rather generic Death Knight. Leave it to pro players to stomp on the fun of mere mortals😅 I suppose that the consolation is that at lower ranks, you can probably do a great many unorthodox things and still get away with it, as what's optimal in pro play is so far removed from casual play that it is like two different worlds.
Indubitably
17:45 I think Fly yesterday, against Hawk, skipped Reincarnation, and went for 3 point in Aura. He got so fast and Hawk didn't even bother to attack TC, not sure if he realized that Fly went for 3/3 skills.
I mean, not attacking late game TC is not the strangest thing, even without reincarnation
One of the great things about you Grubby is how well formulated and thought out comments and ideas are. I might have not played ladder W3 for at least 10-20 years, but I really do enjoy your explanations and context.
Many moons have I waited for this moment
*Night elf music starts playing loudly*
I was never good at RTS but I remember watching a lot of the pro scene back in the day, including your games, and I don't follow the game now but a video like this is still super interesting to me haha. Glad it popped up on my feed.
Don't be afraid , come with us on a journey, we almost always lose 50:50, I just came to aoe4.
Not playing is passive ,like our parents, feel the adrenaline , feel life again ,don't be contempt , play ,win ,loose ,feel the excitement.
Appreciate the lesson. In-between the tier list you're still getting all the knowledge.
The joy and utter fulfillment on that face from the 2019 clips 😀
You forgot to mention for Blood Mage that his Siphon Mana can be used on friendly Units AND Heroes. And when you do that, instead of Blood Mage sucking their mana, he transfers his own mana to the friendly unit/hero. Which is extremely useful when your Paladin runs out of mana for example. And Blood Mage can afford to sacrifice his mana, cause he can steal it from enemies again, because of no real cooldown and cost.
This was a fun video! And surprisingly educational about WC3, too.
I am still impressed by how much you know about the game and I love hearing you basically ramble and analyze all that information. I dont even play this game yet I cant stop watching your videos!
I wouldn't put Crypt Lord at the bottom, he synergizes brilliantly with the other undead heroes. Cast death pact or dark ritual on a beetle and you get a lot of health/mana back, much more than a skeleton would give, and without wasting a unit that costs gold and wood resources. Also the dreadlord vampiric aura buffs beetles and you can use them to surround/trap enemy heroes with sleep. Also you can put him out in front of your army and let the enemy break themselves on his spiked carapace while you toss death coils on him and buff him and his units with unholy aura. He gives you an undead tank that death knight can actually heal, which is sorely needed prior to abominations.
Agree.
He's outclassed by the DK/Lich bromance, for sure, but he's got some game. Early aggression via beetles and his tankiness, deals fantastic damage with his ult in longer games, and is absurdly tanky if he can get going.
If they allowed DK heal not friendly undeads, but friendly targets - that would be so much fun. For undeads.
Love this video - I honestly love your breakdown of the heroes and even though I played this 15 years ago, I'm seriously considering trying this again - Thanks Grubby.
Grubby's tier list actually makes a lot of sense. S = indispensable. A = very strong, usually best among options. B = makes important but non-critical contributions. C = highly situational. D = not ideal even in their supposed niche.
he s only wrong about dh
@@crymaker9628
DH is S, isn't it??
So FS should be A, then.
@@staceygram5555FS?
I havent played W3 in like 10 years but I needed this tier list in my life nway.
I’ve seen so many hero tier list I didn’t think I’d enjoy this… now I need more! Give us HOTS hero tier list Grub! ❤
Really helps that this is probably the most well presented and most informative wc3 hero list I've seen, clearly done by someone with both extensive top level experience and a nice presentation style. I've tried looking up wc3 hero lists before and the others just dont do it for me. More pls lord grubs! Unit tier list, campaign missions tier list...anything
Ultras would be under D
Great Video.
I didn't know about the Hex effects like denying exp and mana regen.... incredible.
Says Blood Mage is the most underrated hero, then immediately proceeds to underrate Blood Mage :D pretty much agree with all the other placements (Orc heroes imba).
AM/Beastmaster vs Orc brought back some good memories haha, it was my bread and butter back in the day.
I think the problem with BM is not so much how he is as a hero, but how important AM is to get past the early game. There are a few heroes like that where they aren't bad, but you can't realistically use them because other heroes are forced choices. Much like the DK for UD, HU kind of need AM to remain competitive at a high level.
Seen some people in the stream chat commenting about how in depth and how long this video is gonna take to make. GOOD, could listen to this kinda info all day lol
I need practice in RTS games in general but i have a passionate love for the genre, wc3 and good, applicable knowledge just watching you play and talk so keenly about your strategies and reasonings for things.
You bet your sweet hiney im going to enjoy watching this list and educated guessing where heroes would rank!
Please do a similar unit tier list!!! Loved this grubby
WC3 is my childhood game, I used to suck and even now.
Even that I don't play it anymore, I do enjoy your wc3 content!
I've been dying for this video for like 10 years, thanks so much Grubster! Would love to see the ultimates tier list next! =)
The background music added in this video is very appreciated. The Warcraft III music is underrated. Nice to have music to go along with good explanation of the heroes.
Grubby, I'm really happy to see this channel taking off. Your positivity and insights make all of your videos, regardless of topic, a joy to listen to!
"I AM HERO AND OBEY" -what i thought the blademaster was saying back then
U telling me that he isnt saying that?
wait what does he say?
@@Sprintspeed10 "I will hear you and obey", I think
My whole life’s a lie
Pitlord is bugged btw his rain of fire damage values are wrong when you check it in the editor which is why its weak no matter what rank it is
When you do some quick math and make the changes it works like its stated lol
Really good editing on this one. Had to dig to find it though
I turned this on while working on something. The audio itself was enough to make me want to reinstall the game and make yet another playthrough. Speaks how great the game is. Thank you for the vid Grubby, it is really interesting!
Same! I immediately got an itch to try out all those heroes once again. WC3 is so great that I actually enjoy all heroes. Except BM and DH, from those I get 'Nam flashbacks instead.
Havent played the game since a year after the expansion release, but i still love watching your vids. Keep it up:)
loving the list, thanks!
TC is my favorite hero
Oh yeah the shockwave is the best❤❤❤
Maaan, my thoughts are all about the same like yours!
Havn´t played War3 a decade yet all these hero icons and spell icons are just so iconic, they live rent free in my mind
Also, tho im not sure how it is in english, but russian localisation is a masterpiece of a kind, I still can immideately remember any unit phrase or even voice, its amazing, hope it was as cool in english
Grubby, have you ever heard of a custom campaign called To the Bitter End? I swear you should cover this master piece, it is a full game within a game.
Azgalore should be in S+ tier unlike regular Pit Lords.
Regular pitlord is ok tbh
The problem is he wasn't made correctly
Check his rain of fire ability and then look at its damage values in the editor
@@zytha2890i don't get it. Explain further.
Azgalor or Assgalore. Not Azgalore.
@@eafesaf6934
The Rain of Fire spell on Pit Lord is mediocre to the point where in most cases it will do comparable damage by just auto attacking with Cleave. Him being a Strength hero also means he can't really spam spells aggressively so in 9/10 situations it's better to save his mana for Howl of Terror (an actually very good spell).
Basically, having a mediocre DoT splash spell on a hero whose auto attack is splash makes the spell large redundant (and less versatile since it locks the Pit Lord in place while only able to rain on a small designated area). Another major issue is that the Doom spell, his Ultimate Ability, is a slow-acting debuff...which can be easily cleansed with Dispel Magic/Purge/Abolish Magic and it having a massively obvious visual indicator also doesn't help hide it. So the result is that, unless you're going against specifically Undead, the Pit Lord functionally only has 1 spell (Howl) and splash melee auto attacks. The amusing thing is that in the WC3 campaign, there's a special Pit Lord in the Reign of Chaos final mission, Azgalor, who has an entirely different spell kit (Shockwave, Thunderclap, Reincarnation, and Earthquake) which is substantially more dangerous because even 20 years ago, Blizzard's devs were aware of how unthreatening the Pit Lord's base kit is.
Haven't played W3 in like 10 years, but I'm still very familiar with these heroes (not so much their patch notes) and hearing about them coming from a pro like you is always great content
This might be my second most anticipated movie release of 2024, next to pannenkoek's nearly 4 hour long video about walls in Super Mario 64.
I remember not 3 years ago, Fly100% went BM + *PL* + SH (unsure on the order of 2nd and 3rd hero) in an Orc mirror against Lyn (I believe?) on Concealed Hill and it was absolutely glorious...!
It was a one-off, no doubt, but in an Orc mirror with mass Raiders and Shamans, a bloodlusted PL with cleave and HoT was a real force of nature and a spectacle to behold.
Such a pleasure to watch the whole thing, plus this tier list reminds me of old DotA hero portraits
1:31:02 you had me chuckle, but this is also why i always followed you since like forever. Authentic, at it, inspring and well mannered. Thanks for being around, Grubby!
Caught it ongoing on stream, decided to wait for video. Sweet.
Started listening to this on vacation while in shower.. FINALLY time to finish it! The moment many of us have been waiting for.
Grubby, I have been following you since 2005. But only in this in-depth analysis I have been able to fully appreciate your knowledge of the game and how complex WC actually is. Take care m8, you rock!
I don't know if this changed since the Reforged version, but back then I remember Pitlord's Cleave ability bypassing armour and could actually deal more damage to the secondary targets than the main one if hitting a bunch of high armour targets, which is quite odd
I really love that Glad you can bake it Uther reference. I laughed out of nowhere here in the office
I'm a sucker for a tier list. I will watch all the WC3 tier lists, lol. Units, Ults, Maps, WC3 players of all time, etc
I would love to see more of this for each of the races. Either a unit tier list (or spells), or just an in depth description of each races pay styles/strengths/weaknesses/strats/current and past metas. WC3 is a hard game for me to understand with so much going on.
i also enjoyed the beastmaster/dh aow creep with quilbeast and tinker third with mass master talons
vs orc. that strat was BIG for a long, long time knocking out tons of orcs. i think i've only seen 1 or 2
orcs ever beat it in a big tournament. i think i've seen you beat it once back when you were playin in
WCG Competitively
Reminds me of another beta moment when the dreadlord had mass teleport. If I remember correctly, he would turn into a swarm of bats with his units. It was so cool!
Mercenary tier list next!
Also Alchemist and Paladin are a fun duo.
will be nice to see voting on how community sees these heroes in comparison
Totally accurate list
I won so many games with my orc farseer and 3 grunts rush at first midnight back in the day. Then tinker came out and I won even more with the same strat in 2v2 using factory.
I would like to see you play a showmatch as Orc against a Human player, but the heroes of the races are switched, so you get Human heroes at the altar and the Human gets Orc heroes. This would be a fun way to test the relative strength of the races' heroes.
Love this! even though all my heroes (MK,DH, BM) was A tier list. keep up the great work! even though havnt played for 14 years ish, this game is still close to heart.
Thank you dearly for this tierlist, very in depth but also straight to the point, i am a NE Warden enjoyer btw
Idk man. My bottom 50 ranked strat of solo TC destroying everyone works just fine! 😂😂
seeing this summary makes me realise even more so just how awesome wc3 is. The development team back in the date was fire.
Last time I play WC3 was like 8 years ago but I need this hour and a half information for my incoming exam. 👍
Priestess of the Moon
:-)
How crazy is it that this game has existed for 20 years+ and this ranking video is uploaded the same week I search for it
Any chance we can have a tier list for items ? The ones from the shop and also the drops from the creeps camps, that would be awesome ! Thanks for the video
Thanks Grubby. Your people demands a part II with ultimates. Except for a very few, they're so mana expensive that i'd often skip them for basic ability
I've been wondering this since watching your OG days Grubby.
27:51 also gargoyles, skeletons, beetles, even acolytes, mercenaries and possessed. Dreadlord was clearly designed as fast farmer and support, devs just didn't think about even faster farm strats. Great design on paper, B/C tier in reality.
I don't think Night Elf having generally weaker heroes is that much of a hot take - the same logic of orc and undead being carried by their heroes is true of night elf being carried by moon wells. That's why they've historically been the race that uses tavern heroes the most. Honestly, it's because of moon wells that neutral heroes aren't a strong as they generally should be in my opinion, you basically have to balance neutral heroes under the pretense that they have access to moon wells.
Bro i also don't play this game but I know everything about it just watching your videos and soaking all like I would play this game every day. You're a hero bro thanks !
I used to do DK/Pit/Necro frenzy in 2v2 (one player picking dk, the other pit). Pretty fun cleave rush.
Everybody loves tierlist video, I think it's a good idea you do more of them
Dunno why i watched this since i havent played wc3 in like 15+ years, but it was entertaining.
Such in-depth analysis! This requires absolute understanding of the game. Your explanation is much better than many professors in the universities. Or maybe, many professors do not have full understanding of the field they are in. 😄😄😄
Hey grubby I really felt excited when I saw the video and its so awesome how you explain everything in detail. I just feel confused about DH, how can he have so much good stuff and strenght that he was called superman but hes not S tier in your opinion, it feels always hard playing against him. Maybe its because of the general NE concept but still he has everything, abilities, stats,…
Happy got Crypt Lord nerfed after Reforged and he never came back 😢 I still play him at 5k because I’m Kinky! Oblivion awaits!
OBLIVION AWAITS!
I feel like Blood Mage is the most underrated hero. Maybe 20 years later he will be meta when people will understand how to play him
I love how Grubby has the pauses and rhetorical questioning that a university instructor uses, shows how much experience he has with the game.
If there would be a tierlist for WC3 tierlists, this tierlist would be a D.
14:10 ish, man, getting lvl3 serpent wards for the FIRST time ever in a 2v2 or i think it might've been a 3v3 tournament
since we had many many big battles, and we were on ventrilo or maybe teamspeak?
we could coordinate hero nukes, hex into a bolt into a coil/nova nuke? is gnarly.
but then a TC stomp, coil/nova+hex, into another nuke... having stomp come back up and that dudes still alive, they have
no chance to use pots or invuln or anything cept rely on other allies healing (healing wards, heal scrolls, etc)
which reminds me of a particular team who always played ud/ud which a LOT of people considered horrible but they
constantly remained in the top 5-8 in 2v2 AT. and we played them a lot. they managed to snag a couple wins off of us
whenever we got really bad maps and matchups. my worst race in TFT was 100% without question human. hence
why i came up with so many cheesy builds.
Havnt watched yet but over 1.5 hours is excellent analysis lol
I feel like if the crypt lords aoe effect of his Q hits more units in a bigger cone his use would sky rocket
I love this tierlist video grub. I think wc3 biggest issue is the hard accessability. Very complicated game to get into😊
One spell Idea I could see being a positive for POTM would be to replace searing arrow (which doesn't fit night elf lore anyway they don't catch things on fire) and give her something like enchant weapon. The spell would target units the same way frost armor does, you enchant their weapons to gain the positive effects of magic damage on top of their normal attacks. Each level adds a percentage of the magic damage benefit. Suddenly your projectile army can pierce through heavy armor units like butter.
I played few games of Warcraft 3 skirmish. I had invented Paladin build for myself where I would prioritize armor and healing. However, I would go for Priests to create sturdy backline. Commenters also said that Paladin should go with priests. I do not know how good it is at the very top, but it was rock solid strategy for me to start playing with.
That's quite amazing. I didn't think they were so complex. Btw would you include in that tier list custom/unique heroes like Garithos etc?
Hex disabling HP and MP regeneration was fixed in 1.25
Some fun history on Hex. You could waste consumable like teleport scrolls without them getting used. It used to change the target's armor type. You were not able to buy items. And please correct if I'm wrong on this one, it was ages ago, it completely negated Evasion from all sources
I'm recalling all of these based on how impactful they were to Dota, since the hard coded Hex ability was used, and not a custom one 😁