@@Latter-dailyDigest Listen to John and he will cover everything I learned in 1975 and more that has been revealed. He reports it very well. Have a great day.
Right before covid you decided to lure others in pretending you know the beliefs. You are not speaking the truth John. I have watched you a Ling tme now. It didn't take Ling to figure out your game after I heard of your excommunication and what you have worshipped since. It's not Heavenly Father. I don't need to know more about you. You have lost sight of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost John. You are in need of repentance as we all are.
@@esthernwogu6511whatever go spend money in the temple, Jesus forbids you but yet there’s a cashier and register to collect money for garments and stuff inside
Moronism Kullt is man church of darkness you mean. John joined a Christian humane church that is godly but then left that too. Then John is not agnostic but he should at least try giving real beliefs a chance.
I personally really appreciate how safe and respectful this podcast is. When I started questioning the church a few months ago and wanted to find information that the church wasn’t really talking about, I felt like this podcast and their guests were very respectful of their approach to things that I was questioning. That really helped me to listen instead of retreating back to the church and helped me to deconstruct it without being as angry as I otherwise might’ve been about everything that I had been through with the church up to that point.
In the late 50s and into the 60s I was young and went to the church. I was told all the things you have said about J.S. In my 20s I didn't go because somehow I interpreted that I wasn't good enough. Later in my late 30s. I went back for awhile it was very different environment. It got to be very confusing after awhile because a lot of people denied the things I learned about J.S. So glad to hear you validate everything that was taught about J.S. In 50s and 60s. I didn't remember it in detail so I doubted myself. Listening to John talk about it, is kind of healing for me. Truth is so powerful. It's the only way to live. I love, absolutely love John Dehlins videos. They have been food for my soul and spirit. As I sit here thinking about it. Wow! There's no words to describe how freed up I am. The truth will set you free.😇💞😇💞
I’m from Iceland 🇮🇸 and not religious but find the LDS church fascinating im really curious about this because of Chad and Lorie trial and Ruby Frank and Jody case and also their are some LDS members here in Iceland 🇮🇸 from Utah that are going house to house to get people to be in their Church of LDS 😂just really young boys maybe 20 years old but they talk like they have a mountain of knowledge about life i find that interesting and funny at the same time 😂
The Mormons have a huge sales force of youngsters pressured & groomed into giving 2 years of thier lives selling the beliefs door to door, I have such pity for that level of indoctrination
Of course im nice to them i myself have 3 sons 🩵and yes they are around 18-20 years old probably on their mission they dress real nice and look very innocent and happy 😃ignorance is a bliss i guess 🙈but its actually really strange to hear so young men speak like they have so much knowledge about life and really believe themselves that’s so fascinating to me 😂
I am always kind to those I call religious door knockers...I pray for them as I send them on their way....if you can't be kind don't answer the door...I know you suspect who they are❤
Just checked the book of genesis in the old testament and the curse of Ham mentions that the descendants his son Canaan will be enslaved. It doesn't curse him with dark skin. It is the mormon church that interprets it as dark skin, thereby justifying the enslavement of people of African descent. I know I'm being pedantic but I feel it's important to gets the facts straight. Thank you for doing this episode. And thanks for the work you both do.
@@Hallahanify here's what I was taught as a Catholic. The Old Temperament has words such as defeat, slain in thousands and even some specifically that 'God slain the Canaanites', for example. Later on, even in the same Book Canaanites are alive. The Old Testament requires a lot of historical context and understanding that words need to be interpreted as they would when first written. Even now we say 'team A killed team B' after a sporting match. Team B would be alive.
@@6-kids-uk that's some hardcore cafeteria catholicism. Many of the catholics I was raised around had much more literal interpretation of the bible. My uncle who is a devout catholic says the old testament justifies the genocide of the Palestinians.
I’m a never-Mormon. I watch because 1) ex husband’s family is Mormon but not me. 2) Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell/Jodi and Ruby. 3) it’s crazy how cults work, the human condition is fascinating. Many Mormons I know have shiny, sparkly eyes and big smiles, which is attractive. Too bad one has to believe in Joseph Smith’s wild ass teachings to belong.
'Shiny sparkly eyes and big smiles' is often an image that is expressed as the mask for what we wanted so badly to be or become, the 'perfect Mormon.' Because the perfect Mormon is the only thing that will get you into the 'perfect Mormon heaven,' where your family won't be scattered away from you for eternity. It is often a facade, and I run into it now as an ex Mormon, and I find their mask covering some conflicted realities and personalities hiding behind that image they try so hard to present to the world. Sometimes there are very harmful people behind that mask.
Shiny happy people by REM. Inspired by a Chinese propaganda poster after the bloody massacre at Tienanmen square in 1989. Whenever I hear that song I I think of Mormons. I grew up in the church. Members putting on the facade of shiny happy and wholesome perfection. I could see the cracks but never spoke of the hypocrisy while growing up. It wasn’t safe.
I do not understand that you have embraced that Joseph Smith as fiction. Why not become a Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, or some other protestant belief?
My ancestors joined in England and came to the U.S. and were the original handcart pushing Mormon pioneers, so it was very difficult for me to break away from the church. Took about 20 years to de-construct. I believe in some sort of higher power, but cannot attend ANY church. I agree with John, they all have problems. I would just be trading one problem for another.
My ancestors on my Mom's and Dad's side came from England and Denmark respectively. Both were handcart Pioneers. I am 54 years old and have been active and inactive through the years. I have finally let it go. Deconstructing has been hell. I love how Jon is so respectful in his podcasts. Literally, right in the beginning, correcting the interviewer on the church name. This was a great podcast. Thanks Jon. I appreciate your work!
As a Never Mormon, I was fascinated because I struggled with my own Christian belief system and the similarities are so closely related. Cult to consciousness brought me to your channel and I am grateful. ❤
Which Christian belief exactly? I ask because The Book of Mormon is a mockery of the Bible, and nothing like it. The Bible has scholars, and scientists who to this day still study it. I listen to astrophysicists that speak of the Bible describing the things they’re discovering now. Islam, Mormonism, Jehova’s Witnesses are all attempts at trying to copy and call the Bible false at the same time. They all fail.
I'm a never-mormon. I'm honestly amazingly surprised by how many interesting stories I've come across just listening to your podcast. I like listening to people's religious deconstruction stories. The way so many Mormons seem to be very well educated in their own theology is also intriguing.
Mormons in general are pleasant people, deep down they are fine. but when some are uncultured it begs the question of comprehension, as to what they are actually living. I have lived that life so I would know, I feel like im in my right mind now an on a different path. Without the help of worldly Scholars to help us with this deconstruction, life would have been worse for a lot of misguided people.
Wow!!! John never ceases to amaze me. Thank you John, for using your powers for good! What a fascinating conversation in the human experience. Don't we all want to find truth and align ourselves with it, as we find it? Historically, religion has often discouraged that in favor of keeping us isolated in a belief system that dissuades human curiosity and exploration of what reality is. And that's just sad, as a human with a finite number of years to explore life. Thank you to John and Graham for an excellent discussion on the topic!
I like how Graham Martin distinguished between the truth claims of the Church and the community of the Church. And I like how he said the price we pay for the community is having to believe in the outlandish truth claims. That is so true. I know some people are happy to continue participating while quietly being non-believers, but that doesn’t work for many people.
That’s exactly why I couldn’t continue on with the church! I couldn’t/wouldn’t ever sacrifice my integrity and not being my honest and true self with others. And I most definitely wouldn’t just to have a built in community.
When I left as an adult my dad said- you should stay in the church for the community. I said I couldn’t participate in something I didn’t believe in and keep my sanity.
Nevermo long-time listener here. I wanted to add to the discussion of why Mormon Stories is so compelling for a nevermo. The core narrative of Mormonism is incredibly far-fetched for anyone not raised in the faith, but it feels and seems close enough to mainline Christianity to be familiar. I think for a lot of listeners, especially Christians and questioning Christians, this allows Mormonism to provide a thought experiment about religion more broadly, and invites all of us to wonder why we believe what we do. Is it family, tradition, logic, culture? When we choose to devote our lives, resources, and money to a belief system, what is our standard of proof? A lot of people in mainline Christian denominations never ask these questions because our belief systems are so normal in America, but Mormonism raises the question, what if ALL of it is strange and illogical? If it is, do we still choose to participate, and why? Is it harmless to participate? It's a completely different lens through which to view faith and obedience, and for me has allowed me to consider what my own standards are for participation in organized religion.
I’ve been listening for about a year and I’ve always loved how John talks to guests with compassion and gentleness. It gives me “father I never had” vibes 😂 I clicked SO fast to hear all about his mormon story and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this episode.
I have grown so much learning from you and your cohorts John! I am an exmormon, and appreciate the good work you put into the world. Informed consent is my goal to with the people iny life, i am not out of my angry phase yet lol. I hope to approach a similar space to promote communication with others, to learn and do what i can to help in this crazy tragic world. Take care, and keep up the great work!
Sometimes I wish I had an ExMormon to talk with. Besides John here, I have no one. My husband a non member, atheist thinks my answer would be just to not mention the Mormons again. That doesn't work. I know no one that left the Church.
This podcast was like a therapy session for me wow. Thank you for putting words to the feelings so many of us exmormon and ex religious people have 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
This is... SUCH....a monumental episode. What a powerhouse interview session. If I were to pick any video to send someone about why I no longer believe, this would be it!!!! Thank you!!!
This is a masterful interview from both of you. Having been out of the church for many years, I’ve learned it’s not my place to unsolicitedly de-convert believing friends and family. That said, if someone really wants to know, this might be the first thing I’d share. Well done!
I seriously appreciate you. I’ve even studied with Maharishi Maheshi Yogi. I’ve studied as many religious regimes and when their God is so poor that he needs so much money to build their own house or a temple or buy a pool or a car; or there is a man that wants to hate any group of people in order to be racist or create any distructive movement. If Gid created humans in his own image, then how can anyone decide to hate if a group isn’t skin color, hold the right job, speak the right language, believe in the different view of children, sex, ugliness of any kind, different opinions, etc. we need to keep studying and learn about others. I’m 79 yo and still doing it.
Never a Mormon, not religious just. stumbled upon the Joseph Smith story a couple of years ago. Bryce blankenagel and David Fitzgerald did a series of 20-something episodes about Smith, his cronies and their escapades in chronological order. I happened to catch the series as they were doing it. My first episode was about episode 5 and after the hour I couldn't wait for episode 6. It was so outlandish and so unbelievable that I got hooked. There is no way any writer , anywhere, could create the characters and the shenanigans that describes early Mormon history. If it was illegal, they did it. Each week I couldn't wait for a new episode. The way Smith continually wiggled his way in and out of trouble actually becomes humorous. His hubris and audacity had no bounds. Once they got to nauvoo, john c Bennett crafted the charter for the town and slipped in a clause that made Smith virtually untouchable. These guys made the mafia look like boy scouts. As they kept moving West, the story of Smith and his pals is the gift that never stops giving. Absolutely captivating and fascinating. People need to know that at the time of his assassination he was running for president. Trump being convicted of financial fraud and paying off a pornstar was just another day in the life of Smith. With the current state of affairs, I'm curious why the news media hasn't picked up on the Joseph Smith story. Are they all that ignorant? Or are they afraid of a Mormon backlash? With the council of 50, Smith had plans of becoming president and turning the United States into a Mormon theocracy. By the time of Smith's death, he was dressing in full military regalia looking like Napoleon and had a huge well armed militia at his disposal. I believe to this day, Smith is the only presidential candidate ever to be assassinated.
Knowing these things (&more) it’s utterly incredible that there’s a religion based on all of this & him, & that generations keep revering & following it. I firmly believe it has to do with their method of teaching (brainwashing). -which has undoubtedly caused many unsafe offshoot situations. The Mormon “church” is not a church. It’s a corporation. & Christianity is not a religion. It’s a relationship with God through the One & Only Savior of the world, Jesus Christ.
John, I am one of your faithful never Mormons. One thing that brings me back again and again is what you talked about at 2:02:00. It is easier to objectively investigate another religion and learn so much about your own.
I’m only at 5:20 here Just want to say I found Mormon stories last year some time probably from the Ruby Frankie case actually.. I’m a never Mormon. But I have been fascinated by the stories I’ve heard on here. The six hour one y’all did where you broke down that book that Lori vallow was reading was SO INTERESTING. I couldn’t stop listening to it. Thank you John 💛 I have slept to your voice many times lol
I'm a Never Mormon, but my parents dragged me to Utah when I was five years old My dad got a job teaching at Utah State University (in Political Science coincidentally). Also coincidentally USU is where John Dehlin got his psychology Doctorate degree I believe. So I lived in a small town in Cache Valley where I was often the only Mormon in my school class. One more coincidence: my town of North Logan is where John lived in during part of his graduate school days. Actually I think he lived just a couple blocks away from our family house. I was in DC during those days where I worked at CNN's Washington bureau as a senior producer for almost 25 years. Now that I am retired and back in Cache Valley (came back for the skiing, stayed for the compound fracture). Now I really enjoy learning a lot more about the LDS church than I ever learned growing up. And I love a good scam or confidence scheme. And, thanks to TH-cam, I've become a bit of a physics nerd and my agnosticism turned into to total non-belief. And I would like to say that my best friend growing up was very Mormon and I spent more time at his house than at my home. His family NEVER tried to convert me or push any theology on m. Except that there was prayer at meals, and they even let me say the Lord's prayer in Russian since back then I was nominally Russian Orthodox.
thank you for your hard work and search for Truth in the Morman belief! I was a member for 3 years from Montana. Any religion that won't learn from its history will end up with great people like you to help others to recover from their mental conditions!
If there's a cult that doesn't tell you about that it's a horrid KULTTT. Is an evil man and a Satanist and anti-theist who's against God for one and says all the deception you can you have to be unbelievably blind in lied to in order to stay in it. Mormonism is one of the worst Jwitnesses are just as bad as well as scientologists.
John, I am glad your “balloon popped “ and you found your true purpose. You have no idea how much you helped me during my faith crisis (2016) and still help me to this day. I was a member for 25+ years in the church in Northern California. Thank you for your great work❤.
Been watching bits and pieces of Mormon Stories for about a year now. This is, for me, the best one yet. So informative and thought provoking. Keep up the good work…
I'm not Mormon, I'm not religious but grew up Lutheran and went to Sunday School and quite when I was old enough. The spiritual world has no religion and what I found in Sunday School was to control people and had so little to with the spiritual world. I wasn't very old when I realized that. So I identify what is wrong with religions including the Mormon religion. It's fun to see people come to realization about how bad so many religions are.
I agree. Grew up Roman Catholic but my parents were just not very religious. I think they thought it was what they were 'supposed' to do. My husband and I raised our children without religion. They have grown up and are four good, decent people 😊
The mo-mo’s silliest and magical thinking is thankfully being exposed more and thanks to Daybell and Vallow types So many more don’t receive such press
Tragic might be a better word than silly. Many Mormons believe their children are possessed by evil spirits (demons) when they misbehave or struggle with mental illness or depression or anything. Ruby Frankes children would have been murdered just like the Vallow kids if the boy hadn't escaped.
27:10 actually, “old English” is a formal name for a very old stage of the language, but not the one that the book of Mormon or Bible is written in. Old English is like English back in the Viking times and stuff.
Wow. Before there was a concept of a “shelf”, I started questioning things that didn’t seem right about the church in my late teens. I talked to my (Mormon) friends about my concerns snd was pulled in by my bishop, a man I respected greatly. He explained to me that God allows people yo be tempted to the level they can withstand, and that I was smarter than my friends and could withstand more than they could. He encouraged me to talk to him directly about my faith questions, but not yo tempt my friends because they may not be able to handle the questions. He was sincere and meant well, but created two new giant problems via his “solution”. First, he implied that I could over-rule God, and that my talking to my friends would create a situation God does not allow where people are tempted beyond their ability to resist. Second, when I clarified that I should “act as if everything is OK around my friends” he affirmed. But that was asking me to lie and deceive. Those two problems immediately broke the shelf I didn’t know I had.
The HELLYfather they tell you is man not at all god but a satanic self idolatrous man from planet Lucifer and is Sinful to full. Do you see how wicked and abominationful and False it all is in front you. And their false claims of temptation is their own temptations of their entire Kulltt.
It wasn't anything temptation it was God truly Jehovah Father and Real Only Jesus Christ pulling you to get out of the Darkness And Hell Hoax that mormonism is like the other Kullttts.
It wasn't anything temptation it was God truly Jehovah Father and Real Only Jesus Christ pulling you to get out of the Darkness And Hell Hoax that mormonism is like the other Kullttts.
It's ironic, my family has a law firm. And my one cousin had so much hard time getting a law degree (passing the bar), but he did. My uncle notarized my exit letter though. I was on the debate team, so I've always been able to see both sides of the story. Mr. John you have a great voice, you could have been a DJ or in TV as a news reporter. My mom would understand all of this, she was a computer programmer back then.
I love how John is such a great historian at this point, having gathered so much knowledge throughout the years. It is crucial for one that is trying to get their family out of this cult to attain his knowledge. Thank you!
Thank you for this podcast episode! I've been having doubts about the LDS church since being baptized and this helps me realize my doubts are founded. I can't let my family continue to be apart them. It's only been about 2.5 months. At first I was very curious as to why they never talk about to Bible on Sunday and then I came across an NDE where a guy said he saw Joseph Smith in hell and that made me even more curious. Thank you.
So good to hear more of your own background story John! Even though not Mormon I can really relate to that religious multi-generational thing and also the overloaded shelf!!
Loved hearing your story John, have watched MSP for ages but haven't heard the timeline of your life. I can give my hubby the term Secular Christian as that sounds like his handle, he felt the others are too harsh - fell back on"Scientist" instead. CHEERS both of you.
So great you are using your experience, education and compassion to help others. After 50+ years I am the only one of my extended family, except for my adult daughter, who has left the Charismatic non-denominational church my brother founded. Luckily my family has not shunned me but, we don’t have much in common anymore. So hard to be with them when the focus of every conversation is prayer, “God told me”, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I just can’t live in that fantasy world anymore. They have no idea how crazy they sound to me and I have to work very hard not to constantly point that out. Exhausting!
I love the distinction of identifying as atheist being in some way a validation to theism. I prefer it as an adjective, not a noun. My religious position is atheist. Not me. I'm much more than this one box.
This is awesome! I have not heard John tell his story before. I am not Mormon, nor have I ever been so this is quite informative! Nauvoo, Illinois is not far from me (about 45 minutes) and Joseph Smith's village before he traveled west to Utah still stands and is quite a tourist spot in the area
JS didn’t get to Utah. He was killed before. After a protracted dispute with other men who claimed they were the rightful heirs to Joseph’s church. Brigham Young ultimately won that power struggle and lead the majority of members to Utah. His followers were called Brigamites.
Such a blessing the two of you. Personally, I am a child of the universe LOL. I believe in God I believe in many faiths that have so much to offer but I don’t have to be exclusive…..
I remember that Y2K. I got an A in psych 100 at the community college. There was this other LDS girl there, and we were waiting in the hallway. Everybody knew she was LDS. I was so afraid they would find out I was also LDS. So, I never said anything.
Moroni 10:4 "...when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." Keep searching my friend
Neither did I. I prayed, fasted , went to church, etc. I made the mistake of joining, anyway just to make people happy at the expense of my happiness. I got my ass chewed out for leaving but I'm much happier.
I appreciate the TRUTH. As an Indigenous Native American…I just wish dumb ol’ J.S. would have left Tribal People out of his occult. My FAITH is in the GOSPEL of the GOOD NEWS. Thank you both for the HISTORY of JOSEPH SMITH.
Gaspell yes but the regular Christian one that was the strings that satanist smith pulled from like his fallen kjv is still bad as itself above over too. Jesus the real Jesus Christ is still issuing too like his father lover Satan the devil of yours and your false one idol Jehovah father or yahuwah is bad on its own correct straight terms.
I am a born and raised Utah county mormon. I saw your billboards all over and was told over and over to not "dabble" in that anti-mormom crap. Youll go down that rabbit hole quick. I was afraid to. My brother donated some money to you and he posted it on facebook. I judged him SO hard. My 2nd oldest son tells me he no longer believes, i was appalled. I got into cult documentaries with the FLDS movie..and polygamy fascinated me. I watched stuff from the kingston clan (mind blown that it was right under my nose and no clue). Then got more into cult documentaries. I had not wanted to go to church for years but did so to make my husband and kids happy. But never really questioned it. I had a lot of stuff on my shelf. Now im here...started with some mormon stories, found out about the hat and seer stone (mind blown) and keep trying to get caught up on the videos. Who even am I? I feel so duped and betrayed and all the other things. Someone on one of the stories said that once you hear it, you cant unhear it and its so true. Its either true or its not, right? My mind is so blown.
I went to read about him Warren Jeff because of Mormon Podcast. He mimicked Joseph Smith. He look very charsmatic like David Koresh. My cousin and her husband were think of going to Waco but her husband told her he's to charismatic, I dont trust him. But she lost friends in that catastrophe. One of her friends, husband and wife owned a bakery here in Oahu,Kailua they died in the raid. Couple of her married friends left before they seiged the compound. One two many children died, it was so sad. David Koresh attended the Diamond Head Church in Honolulu.
re: Episcopals + clergy project: A key moment in my faith life was hearing an episcopal priest say from the pulpit: "When we say the creed, we say 'we believe', not 'I believe.' It's not what you happen to believe or disbelieve at the moment. It's not even what *I*, your pastor, believe or disbelieve at the moment. We all believe and disbelieve different things at different times in our lives. The creed is about the principles that we choose to believe collectively, to try to cope with the world, and to make it a better place." If other religions had that attitude, you guys would be out of a job 😊
I enjoyed this so much I’ve watched three times You both are excellent Critical thinking skills are awesome for both of you. Of course I was raised Mormon and I wish I was a lawyer. This was perfect thank you!!!
Not a Mormon. I'm a Christian. (From my view, I find those to not be compatible.) I study comparative religions. I stumbled upon your podcast by reading the book by Elissa Wall, "Stolen Innocence." Then I listened to her podcast series with you. I've wondered about your background.
as an ex catholic, ex moromon content is the like "mainstream" content I can relate to. I have SO MUCH work to do unlearning the religious and sexist nonsense that became part of my moral framework for myself that I really do not want to keep. Thank you for all the work you do.
As someone who has recently left the Mormon church, listening to our history in this context is just bonkers 😂 I’m thankful for John and others like him that helped me research the true story and realize I was in a freaking cult!
I fall asleep listening to true crime and wake up to your podcast. Not sure how that happens but this stuff is interesting and you have great guests. I’m not a Mormon and will never be a Mormon but the history is fascinating.
I think it was Ricky Gervais who said that atheism isn't a religion, in the same sense that not skiing is not a hobby. The whole thing about atheism is that it doesn't offer a set framework for identity. For me, personally, it's Russel's Teapot. I see no necessity to suppose any kind of divine intelligence or power. In fact, it only makes the universe less sensible and logical. Religion has just always seemed like working towards a premise, rather than a conclusion, to me.
I was also a Y2K consultant. I started out as a computer software trainer, and before that a computer data operator/data entry operator. I’m 65 so there was no computer training in college unless you were a business major. I was a secretarial person, so I got in as a typist basically. I loved why 2K and I loved coding websites in HTML from scratch. Then I taught people how to do that themselves. It’s the only job I’ve ever had where I made enough money in part of a week to take the rest of the week off. That was fun. I’m fourth generation Unitarian Universalist but I’m devout in my heart, I’m loyal, and I’m full of wonder. When I was in high school in the mid 1970s, I was a Jesus freak for about three years. I finally quit when all these people were telling me that only God could judge anybody, but that guy over there was not a Christian. I figured that the people above me were not trustworthy, even though all the followers had such pure hearts. No regrets.
I can tell you that the reason I listen to John’s podcast is to become well versed in Mormonism. My deceased husband was Mormon, my best friend growing up is Mormon. I’ve been surrounded by Mormons. I never converted because I had done my research. But these podcasts teach me more. I want to be able to help people in my life understand what they are involved in. I’m still trying to figure out how to approach my long time friend. Each guest that comes on brings a different element of how people react to learning the truth. I appreciate this podcast so much.
I didn't grow up religious. Occasional church. I did/ do believe in God and Jesus. When I had my kids, I wanted to introduce them to God through Church. I tried many churches and never felt at home. I looked at Mormons as so well put together and successful. I thought that must be the right way to live. But I had knew about Joseph Smith and the plates. There was no way I could get on board with that. Also, the LDS chapel in my town is so eerily still and quiet that it feels unwelcoming. So I never put much effort there. I find the story of Mormonism fascinating and am so glad I found your channel because I am learning so much!
Here’s what I never understood about the celestial kingdom. Ok so you’re sealed to your spouse and kids and you get to be together in your own world. But then your kids get married, so what world do their spouses and their children go to? And so on and so on. Are families then grouped together in the same world? Or do you get to pick which family’s planet that you go to? I just don’t understand the generational logistics.
Fantastic show. I’ve been listening to John and Mormon stories for months, but never knew the Genesis of his work. Thanks, Graham and John, for this wonderful, articulate, thoughtful episode.
I have never been Morman but I grew up with JWs, another cult. My Dad was hooked, his sister was LDS, also hooked so I often listened to them argue for years as a kid. It was stupid but I was still interested in what made people jump into that swamp so much later in life I agreed to go to Nauvoo with my aunt. Her dream and last road trip before she departed for her heaven. I started reading about Joseph Smith and learned she knew very little about his criminal life. So, she died happy in her beliefs but I remain baffled by it all.....so these podcasts provide a bitof insight.
You are right I am 55 and never knew Joseph was a polygamist let alone polyamourus. All these things are blowing my mind. I feel like a big dummy not even knowing my own religion but at the same time, they went to great lengths to cover it up. I feel violated. Thanks for bringing this to light
58:34 Wait. So if true and worthy believers get their own planet to rule with their family, what happens if a man's son is also a true and worthy believer and also sealed to his own wife? Does the son get his own planet or is he forever sealed to his father and mother to their planet? I thought the appeal was to be sealed with your family forever in the afterlife? You can't both have your own planet AND be sealed together with your father/son if both are true worthy believers.
Regarding Agnostic vs Atheist etc. I would say 'Define God' before I'd want to answer the question. There is no solid definition and God appears to change dramatically even within the bible itself, but if you step outside religions, the word is so flexible that you could conceivably come up with a definition so broad that everyone could believe in. For example, you could define God as.. 'a yet to be understood phenomena that has produced the result of me perceiving myself to exist'. to which I'd say, yes if that's the definition of God I can believe that. I don't think labels are useful except for others to use as leverage against you by calling on collective negative bias against the label.
Thank you, so much for your time, Dr. Dehlin. It was a real joy to work with you!
Come on our show!😊😊😊
I was taught the truth regarding Joseph Smith when I visited Navoo, Illinois.
@@PatriciaTennery what was the truth and who taught it?
@@Latter-dailyDigest
Listen to John and he will cover everything I learned in 1975 and more that has been revealed. He reports it very well. Have a great day.
Dang you should have had him tell you the story of when he dated a famous actress.
I’ve been hooked on Mormon Stories for a few years, and this is the first time I’ve heard John’s story in any detail. Thanks for doing this interview!
Me too. This was a fantastic interview!!!
Me too! I'm learning lots!😊
When he was excommunicated he went bitter to the teachings and TWISTED THEM PUBLICLY OVER AND OVER.
Right before covid you decided to lure others in pretending you know the beliefs. You are not speaking the truth John. I have watched you a Ling tme now. It didn't take Ling to figure out your game after I heard of your excommunication and what you have worshipped since. It's not Heavenly Father. I don't need to know more about you. You have lost sight of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost John. You are in need of repentance as we all are.
"When I was kicked out of the Mormon Church, I joined the Human Church. " John 😱💖
Why disturb yourself about the church of the first born what do you want to achive
CARNAL CHURCH?
@@esthernwogu6511whatever go spend money in the temple, Jesus forbids you but yet there’s a cashier and register to collect money for garments and stuff inside
All the kulltt of them is man not outside but man wicked sinful Lost souls of man in Luciferic Darkness.
Moronism Kullt is man church of darkness you mean.
John joined a Christian humane church that is godly but then left that too.
Then John is not agnostic but he should at least try giving real beliefs a chance.
I personally really appreciate how safe and respectful this podcast is. When I started questioning the church a few months ago and wanted to find information that the church wasn’t really talking about, I felt like this podcast and their guests were very respectful of their approach to things that I was questioning. That really helped me to listen instead of retreating back to the church and helped me to deconstruct it without being as angry as I otherwise might’ve been about everything that I had been through with the church up to that point.
.b,
😅 year s😊
Love this episode. I'm a never Mormon but I love listening to John and his guests.
In the late 50s and into the 60s I was young and went to the church. I was told all the things you have said about J.S. In my 20s I didn't go because somehow I interpreted that I wasn't good enough. Later in my late 30s. I went back for awhile it was very different environment. It got to be very confusing after awhile because a lot of people denied the things I learned about J.S. So glad to hear you validate everything that was taught about J.S. In 50s and 60s. I didn't remember it in detail so I doubted myself.
Listening to John talk about it, is kind of healing for me.
Truth is so powerful. It's the only way to live.
I love, absolutely love John Dehlins videos. They have been food for my soul and spirit.
As I sit here thinking about it. Wow! There's no words to describe how freed up I am.
The truth will set you free.😇💞😇💞
AABSOLUTELY!!! The truth shall make you free!!!
I’m from Iceland 🇮🇸 and not religious but find the LDS church fascinating im really curious about this because of Chad and Lorie trial and Ruby Frank and Jody case and also their are some LDS members here in Iceland 🇮🇸 from Utah that are going house to house to get people to be in their Church of LDS 😂just really young boys maybe 20 years old but they talk like they have a mountain of knowledge about life i find that interesting and funny at the same time 😂
The Mormons have a huge sales force of youngsters pressured & groomed into giving 2 years of thier lives selling the beliefs door to door, I have such pity for that level of indoctrination
Don't! Just don't!
Youre right!Be kind to them cuz they're likely 18 yrs old and don't know any better 😵💫😟
Of course im nice to them i myself have 3 sons 🩵and yes they are around 18-20 years old probably on their mission they dress real nice and look very innocent and happy 😃ignorance is a bliss i guess 🙈but its actually really strange to hear so young men speak like they have so much knowledge about life and really believe themselves that’s so fascinating to me 😂
I am always kind to those I call religious door knockers...I pray for them as I send them on their way....if you can't be kind don't answer the door...I know you suspect who they are❤
Just checked the book of genesis in the old testament and the curse of Ham mentions that the descendants his son Canaan will be enslaved. It doesn't curse him with dark skin. It is the mormon church that interprets it as dark skin, thereby justifying the enslavement of people of African descent. I know I'm being pedantic but I feel it's important to gets the facts straight.
Thank you for doing this episode. And thanks for the work you both do.
Wow, that’s good to know!!! I was upset to think the Bible condemned skin color
@LT11721 the bible still condones genocide and all sorts of horrible things so let's not get too excited about it.
@@Hallahanify here's what I was taught as a Catholic. The Old Temperament has words such as defeat, slain in thousands and even some specifically that 'God slain the Canaanites', for example. Later on, even in the same Book Canaanites are alive. The Old Testament requires a lot of historical context and understanding that words need to be interpreted as they would when first written. Even now we say 'team A killed team B' after a sporting match. Team B would be alive.
@@6-kids-uk that's some hardcore cafeteria catholicism. Many of the catholics I was raised around had much more literal interpretation of the bible. My uncle who is a devout catholic says the old testament justifies the genocide of the Palestinians.
I think he said this is what they were taught prior to learning the truth
I’m a never-Mormon. I watch because 1) ex husband’s family is Mormon but not me. 2) Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell/Jodi and Ruby. 3) it’s crazy how cults work, the human condition is fascinating. Many Mormons I know have shiny, sparkly eyes and big smiles, which is attractive. Too bad one has to believe in Joseph Smith’s wild ass teachings to belong.
'Shiny sparkly eyes and big smiles' is often an image that is expressed as the mask for what we wanted so badly to be or become, the 'perfect Mormon.' Because the perfect Mormon is the only thing that will get you into the 'perfect Mormon heaven,' where your family won't be scattered away from you for eternity. It is often a facade, and I run into it now as an ex Mormon, and I find their mask covering some conflicted realities and personalities hiding behind that image they try so hard to present to the world. Sometimes there are very harmful people behind that mask.
Shiny happy people by REM. Inspired by a Chinese propaganda poster after the bloody massacre at Tienanmen square in 1989.
Whenever I hear that song I I think of Mormons. I grew up in the church. Members putting on the facade of shiny happy and wholesome perfection.
I could see the cracks but never spoke of the hypocrisy while growing up. It wasn’t safe.
I do not understand that you have embraced that Joseph Smith as fiction. Why not become a Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, or some other protestant belief?
You have touched on what Neurologists call “The God Factor” and Joseph Smith went through it.
That reminded me of the Amazon documentary on the iBLP. The shiny happy people cult. It's the one the Duggars are part of
My ancestors joined in England and came to the U.S. and were the original handcart pushing Mormon pioneers, so it was very difficult for me to break away from the church. Took about 20 years to de-construct. I believe in some sort of higher power, but cannot attend ANY church. I agree with John, they all have problems. I would just be trading one problem for another.
That sounds very difficult. Especially considering the narrative that your ancestors came to the US from England. That's a great deal of obligation.
Completely understand…my family also came from the original pioneering on the organ trail. Heavy rooted in the religion.
My ancestors on my Mom's and Dad's side came from England and Denmark respectively. Both were handcart Pioneers. I am 54 years old and have been active and inactive through the years. I have finally let it go. Deconstructing has been hell. I love how Jon is so respectful in his podcasts. Literally, right in the beginning, correcting the interviewer on the church name. This was a great podcast. Thanks Jon. I appreciate your work!
My ancestors came from England and a the 12 Handcart Company!
And, you should undo some of the evil that's been done to your great-grandparents and that and apologize and go back to England to undo the darkness.
As a Never Mormon, I was fascinated because I struggled with my own Christian belief system and the similarities are so closely related. Cult to consciousness brought me to your channel and I am grateful. ❤
Yep-same and same!
Which Christian belief exactly? I ask because The Book of Mormon is a mockery of the Bible, and nothing like it. The Bible has scholars, and scientists who to this day still study it. I listen to astrophysicists that speak of the Bible describing the things they’re discovering now. Islam, Mormonism, Jehova’s Witnesses are all attempts at trying to copy and call the Bible false at the same time. They all fail.
At least you have a basic god Beleif and those kulltts don't. But still don't let them come near your loved ones or friends.
@@jondayoung6883 I love that channel too!
Love this version of John, he should be interviewed more often, let him be more ranty, love the expressiveness with the hands
Agree!
I'm a never-mormon. I'm honestly amazingly surprised by how many interesting stories I've come across just listening to your podcast. I like listening to people's religious deconstruction stories. The way so many Mormons seem to be very well educated in their own theology is also intriguing.
Mormons in general are pleasant people, deep down they are fine. but when some are uncultured it begs the question of comprehension, as to what they are actually living. I have lived that life so I would know, I feel like im in my right mind now an on a different path. Without the help of worldly Scholars to help us with this deconstruction, life would have been worse for a lot of misguided people.
"why were native Americans speaking in old English"
John. Why has that never occurred to me??
KJV shitty English you mean. And doing satanic freemasonic acts. And non jews that as stated as Jews aka nephi and laman.
Wow!!! John never ceases to amaze me. Thank you John, for using your powers for good! What a fascinating conversation in the human experience. Don't we all want to find truth and align ourselves with it, as we find it? Historically, religion has often discouraged that in favor of keeping us isolated in a belief system that dissuades human curiosity and exploration of what reality is. And that's just sad, as a human with a finite number of years to explore life. Thank you to John and Graham for an excellent discussion on the topic!
Yes!! Epic episode!
I like how Graham Martin distinguished between the truth claims of the Church and the community of the Church. And I like how he said the price we pay for the community is having to believe in the outlandish truth claims. That is so true. I know some people are happy to continue participating while quietly being non-believers, but that doesn’t work for many people.
That’s exactly why I couldn’t continue on with the church! I couldn’t/wouldn’t ever sacrifice my integrity and not being my honest and true self with others. And I most definitely wouldn’t just to have a built in community.
When I left as an adult my dad said- you should stay in the church for the community.
I said I couldn’t participate in something I didn’t believe in and keep my sanity.
Thank you, thank you, for such an intelligent conversation! I’ve forwarded this on to many.
I feel this so deeply. I also have my own Mormon story. Thank you both!
Nevermo long-time listener here. I wanted to add to the discussion of why Mormon Stories is so compelling for a nevermo. The core narrative of Mormonism is incredibly far-fetched for anyone not raised in the faith, but it feels and seems close enough to mainline Christianity to be familiar. I think for a lot of listeners, especially Christians and questioning Christians, this allows Mormonism to provide a thought experiment about religion more broadly, and invites all of us to wonder why we believe what we do. Is it family, tradition, logic, culture? When we choose to devote our lives, resources, and money to a belief system, what is our standard of proof? A lot of people in mainline Christian denominations never ask these questions because our belief systems are so normal in America, but Mormonism raises the question, what if ALL of it is strange and illogical? If it is, do we still choose to participate, and why? Is it harmless to participate? It's a completely different lens through which to view faith and obedience, and for me has allowed me to consider what my own standards are for participation in organized religion.
Wow!!! So well said. Thank you. ❤
What is strange and illogical about Christianity?
❤
I’ve been listening for about a year and I’ve always loved how John talks to guests with compassion and gentleness. It gives me “father I never had” vibes 😂 I clicked SO fast to hear all about his mormon story and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this episode.
I have grown so much learning from you and your cohorts John! I am an exmormon, and appreciate the good work you put into the world. Informed consent is my goal to with the people iny life, i am not out of my angry phase yet lol. I hope to approach a similar space to promote communication with others, to learn and do what i can to help in this crazy tragic world. Take care, and keep up the great work!
Sometimes I wish I had an ExMormon to talk with. Besides John here, I have no one. My husband a non member, atheist thinks my answer would be just to not mention the Mormons again. That doesn't work. I know no one that left the Church.
@@barbaralael5092 You’re not alone!
Finally Mormon stories and AXP mentioned together
So glad you mentioned the Mormon belt! I’ve called it the Morridor living adjacent & observing the cult
So close to Mordor
@@rustydog2112 This got me laughing.
I-15
One does not simply walk into morridor.
U mean Kulltt 66666 you mean.
This podcast was like a therapy session for me wow. Thank you for putting words to the feelings so many of us exmormon and ex religious people have 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
This is... SUCH....a monumental episode. What a powerhouse interview session. If I were to pick any video to send someone about why I no longer believe, this would be it!!!! Thank you!!!
Wow, thank you!
100% agree with @CHEVYedsf. 😃🫶🙌🏼
This is a masterful interview from both of you. Having been out of the church for many years, I’ve learned it’s not my place to unsolicitedly de-convert believing friends and family. That said, if someone really wants to know, this might be the first thing I’d share. Well done!
I seriously appreciate you. I’ve even studied with Maharishi Maheshi Yogi. I’ve studied as many religious regimes and when their God is so poor that he needs so much money to build their own house or a temple or buy a pool or a car; or there is a man that wants to hate any group of people in order to be racist or create any distructive movement. If Gid created humans in his own image, then how can anyone decide to hate if a group isn’t skin color, hold the right job, speak the right language, believe in the different view of children, sex, ugliness of any kind, different opinions, etc. we need to keep studying and learn about others. I’m 79 yo and still doing it.
Never a Mormon, not religious just. stumbled upon the Joseph Smith story a couple of years ago. Bryce blankenagel and David Fitzgerald did a series of 20-something episodes about Smith, his cronies and their escapades in chronological order. I happened to catch the series as they were doing it. My first episode was about episode 5 and after the hour I couldn't wait for episode 6. It was so outlandish and so unbelievable that I got hooked. There is no way any writer , anywhere, could create the characters and the shenanigans that describes early Mormon history. If it was illegal, they did it. Each week I couldn't wait for a new episode. The way Smith continually wiggled his way in and out of trouble actually becomes humorous. His hubris and audacity had no bounds. Once they got to nauvoo, john c Bennett crafted the charter for the town and slipped in a clause that made Smith virtually untouchable. These guys made the mafia look like boy scouts. As they kept moving West, the story of Smith and his pals is the gift that never stops giving. Absolutely captivating and fascinating. People need to know that at the time of his assassination he was running for president. Trump being convicted of financial fraud and paying off a pornstar was just another day in the life of Smith. With the current state of affairs, I'm curious why the news media hasn't picked up on the Joseph Smith story. Are they all that ignorant? Or are they afraid of a Mormon backlash? With the council of 50, Smith had plans of becoming president and turning the United States into a Mormon theocracy. By the time of Smith's death, he was dressing in full military regalia looking like Napoleon and had a huge well armed militia at his disposal. I believe to this day, Smith is the only presidential candidate ever to be assassinated.
Actually, from what I understand, they still believe there’s going to be an LDS president and he will turn the USA into an LDS theocracy.
Do you know where this series can be found to watch? Do you remember the title of it? I would live to catch it!
Knowing these things (&more) it’s utterly incredible that there’s a religion based on all of this & him, & that generations keep revering & following it.
I firmly believe it has to do with their method of teaching (brainwashing). -which has undoubtedly caused many unsafe offshoot situations.
The Mormon “church” is not a church. It’s a corporation.
& Christianity is not a religion. It’s a relationship with God through the One & Only Savior of the world, Jesus Christ.
John, I am one of your faithful never Mormons. One thing that brings me back again and again is what you talked about at 2:02:00. It is easier to objectively investigate another religion and learn so much about your own.
This interview = Wow! Thank you both.
Loved this. I love 2+ hours of Just John.
I’m only at 5:20 here
Just want to say I found Mormon stories last year some time probably from the Ruby Frankie case actually..
I’m a never Mormon. But I have been fascinated by the stories I’ve heard on here. The six hour one y’all did where you broke down that book that Lori vallow was reading was SO INTERESTING. I couldn’t stop listening to it.
Thank you John 💛
I have slept to your voice many times lol
I'm a Never Mormon, but my parents dragged me to Utah when I was five years old My dad got a job teaching at Utah State University (in Political Science coincidentally). Also coincidentally USU is where John Dehlin got his psychology Doctorate degree I believe. So I lived in a small town in Cache Valley where I was often the only Mormon in my school class. One more coincidence: my town of North Logan is where John lived in during part of his graduate school days. Actually I think he lived just a couple blocks away from our family house. I was in DC during those days where I worked at CNN's Washington bureau as a senior producer for almost 25 years. Now that I am retired and back in Cache Valley (came back for the skiing, stayed for the compound fracture). Now I really enjoy learning a lot more about the LDS church than I ever learned growing up. And I love a good scam or confidence scheme. And, thanks to TH-cam, I've become a bit of a physics nerd and my agnosticism turned into to total non-belief. And I would like to say that my best friend growing up was very Mormon and I spent more time at his house than at my home. His family NEVER tried to convert me or push any theology on m. Except that there was prayer at meals, and they even let me say the Lord's prayer in Russian since back then I was nominally Russian Orthodox.
I’d love to have lunch some day.
Looking forward to it, appreciate your content!
thank you for your hard work and search for Truth in the Morman belief! I was a member for 3 years from Montana. Any religion that won't learn from its history will end up with great people like you to help others to recover from their mental conditions!
If there's a cult that doesn't tell you about that it's a horrid KULTTT.
Is an evil man and a Satanist and anti-theist who's against God for one and says all the deception you can you have to be unbelievably blind in lied to in order to stay in it. Mormonism is one of the worst Jwitnesses are just as bad as well as scientologists.
John, I am glad your “balloon popped “ and you found your true purpose.
You have no idea how much you helped me during my faith crisis (2016) and still help me to this day. I was a member for 25+ years in the church in Northern California.
Thank you for your great work❤.
It’s amazing what we can learn once we start doing our own research. Thank you for another great eye opening episode. Happy Father’s Day to all dads.
John dehlin, I've been listening to you for 2 years because of the vallow Daybell case. I finally learned your own story today!
….when I was 16 years old, I was told not to come back to meetings in my lutheran church….because I ask questions!
Been watching bits and pieces of Mormon Stories for about a year now. This is, for me, the best one yet. So informative and thought provoking. Keep up the good work…
Really appreciate this conversation
I missed the beginning. I was out with my friend. I wanted to support your channel. You and Without a Crystal Ball I support.
I'm not Mormon, I'm not religious but grew up Lutheran and went to Sunday School and quite when I was old enough. The spiritual world has no religion and what I found in Sunday School was to control people and had so little to with the spiritual world. I wasn't very old when I realized that. So I identify what is wrong with religions including the Mormon religion. It's fun to see people come to realization about how bad so many religions are.
I agree. Grew up Roman Catholic but my parents were just not very religious. I think they thought it was what they were 'supposed' to do. My husband and I raised our children without religion. They have grown up and are four good, decent people 😊
@@dorothyd7929 I raised my kids to be honest, caring and loving but never took them to church.
Such an interesting interview!
The mo-mo’s silliest and magical thinking is thankfully being exposed more and thanks to Daybell and Vallow types
So many more don’t receive such press
Tragic might be a better word than silly. Many Mormons believe their children are possessed by evil spirits (demons) when they misbehave or struggle with mental illness or depression or anything. Ruby Frankes children would have been murdered just like the Vallow kids if the boy hadn't escaped.
Lori’s innocent. It was Chad who is responsible for the heinous crimes committed
27:10 actually, “old English” is a formal name for a very old stage of the language, but not the one that the book of Mormon or Bible is written in. Old English is like English back in the Viking times and stuff.
Wow. Before there was a concept of a “shelf”, I started questioning things that didn’t seem right about the church in my late teens. I talked to my (Mormon) friends about my concerns snd was pulled in by my bishop, a man I respected greatly. He explained to me that God allows people yo be tempted to the level they can withstand, and that I was smarter than my friends and could withstand more than they could. He encouraged me to talk to him directly about my faith questions, but not yo tempt my friends because they may not be able to handle the questions. He was sincere and meant well, but created two new giant problems via his “solution”.
First, he implied that I could over-rule God, and that my talking to my friends would create a situation God does not allow where people are tempted beyond their ability to resist.
Second, when I clarified that I should “act as if everything is OK around my friends” he affirmed. But that was asking me to lie and deceive.
Those two problems immediately broke the shelf I didn’t know I had.
The HELLYfather they tell you is man not at all god but a satanic self idolatrous man from planet Lucifer and is Sinful to full.
Do you see how wicked and abominationful and False it all is in front you.
And their false claims of temptation is their own temptations of their entire Kulltt.
It wasn't anything temptation it was God truly Jehovah Father and Real Only Jesus Christ pulling you to get out of the Darkness And Hell Hoax that mormonism is like the other Kullttts.
It wasn't anything temptation it was God truly Jehovah Father and Real Only Jesus Christ pulling you to get out of the Darkness And Hell Hoax that mormonism is like the other Kullttts.
Really loved this episode!!! Thank you!!
It's ironic, my family has a law firm. And my one cousin had so much hard time getting a law degree (passing the bar), but he did. My uncle notarized my exit letter though. I was on the debate team, so I've always been able to see both sides of the story. Mr. John you have a great voice, you could have been a DJ or in TV as a news reporter. My mom would understand all of this, she was a computer programmer back then.
What an amazing episode! I learnt so much. Very thought provoking.
I love how John is such a great historian at this point, having gathered so much knowledge throughout the years. It is crucial for one that is trying to get their family out of this cult to attain his knowledge. Thank you!
John, this is the most amazing podcast you have ever shared, by far! Thank yuou.
Wow, thank you!
This is EPIC having you on as a guest John 😊❤
This was very educational! I never knew about the roots of the LDS church leader(s). Thank you for this!
Thank you for this podcast episode! I've been having doubts about the LDS church since being baptized and this helps me realize my doubts are founded. I can't let my family continue to be apart them. It's only been about 2.5 months. At first I was very curious as to why they never talk about to Bible on Sunday and then I came across an NDE where a guy said he saw Joseph Smith in hell and that made me even more curious. Thank you.
So good to hear more of your own background story John! Even though not Mormon I can really relate to that religious multi-generational thing and also the overloaded shelf!!
Loved hearing your story John, have watched MSP for ages but haven't heard the timeline of your life. I can give my hubby the term Secular Christian as that sounds like his handle, he felt the others are too harsh - fell back on"Scientist" instead. CHEERS both of you.
So great you are using your experience, education and compassion to help others. After 50+ years I am the only one of my extended family, except for my adult daughter, who has left the Charismatic non-denominational church my brother founded. Luckily my family has not shunned me but, we don’t have much in common anymore. So hard to be with them when the focus of every conversation is prayer, “God told me”, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I just can’t live in that fantasy world anymore. They have no idea how crazy they sound to me and I have to work very hard not to constantly point that out. Exhausting!
I love the distinction of identifying as atheist being in some way a validation to theism. I prefer it as an adjective, not a noun. My religious position is atheist. Not me. I'm much more than this one box.
This is awesome! I have not heard John tell his story before. I am not Mormon, nor have I ever been so this is quite informative! Nauvoo, Illinois is not far from me (about 45 minutes) and Joseph Smith's village before he traveled west to Utah still stands and is quite a tourist spot in the area
JS didn’t get to Utah. He was killed before.
After a protracted dispute with other men who claimed they were the rightful heirs to Joseph’s church. Brigham Young ultimately won that power struggle and lead the majority of members to Utah.
His followers were called Brigamites.
Such a blessing the two of you. Personally, I am a child of the universe LOL. I believe in God I believe in many faiths that have so much to offer but I don’t have to be exclusive…..
Great interview!
Love all of Mormon Stories. I am totally unreligious. I do however love hearing the stories. Being in or out. Love your podcasts John
Great stuff. This was one l needed. So much truth and educational gain.
I remember that Y2K. I got an A in psych 100 at the community college. There was this other LDS girl there, and we were waiting in the hallway. Everybody knew she was LDS. I was so afraid they would find out I was also LDS. So, I never said anything.
That was great, thanks guys!
Just watched the ted talk from way back. Stilly so beautifully relevant and applicable today.
I never did get a confirmation of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon after I read it. And, I was looking forward to it!
Me niether since I was. Young girl but I was afraid to be an outcast
I told them I prayed daily for a year and the spirit told me it wasn’t true. They told me I didn’t pray hard enough.
Satanic confirmation can't happen those spiritually wise and prudent.
Did really though get confirmation from Spirit Truly that was a Fraud and HOAXX.
Moroni 10:4
"...when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
Keep searching my friend
Neither did I. I prayed, fasted , went to church, etc. I made the mistake of joining, anyway just to make people happy at the expense of my happiness. I got my ass chewed out for leaving but I'm much happier.
Love you John! You are a treasure.
This is great … thank you for such a clear and honest approach ?
I appreciate the TRUTH. As an Indigenous Native American…I just wish dumb ol’ J.S. would have left Tribal People out of his occult. My FAITH is in the GOSPEL of the GOOD NEWS. Thank you both for the HISTORY of JOSEPH SMITH.
Gaspell yes but the regular Christian one that was the strings that satanist smith pulled from like his fallen kjv is still bad as itself above over too.
Jesus the real Jesus Christ is still issuing too like his father lover Satan the devil of yours and your false one idol Jehovah father or yahuwah is bad on its own correct straight terms.
Native you should go to God-s like Great Spirit(s) and Quetezalcoatl The holy ones Who did make all.
Great content, point of view, and context👏
John, you've got a lot of heart! I was excommunicated, too, but came back after ten years. I hope you come back...and live in my little ward!
I am a born and raised Utah county mormon. I saw your billboards all over and was told over and over to not "dabble" in that anti-mormom crap. Youll go down that rabbit hole quick. I was afraid to.
My brother donated some money to you and he posted it on facebook. I judged him SO hard.
My 2nd oldest son tells me he no longer believes, i was appalled.
I got into cult documentaries with the FLDS movie..and polygamy fascinated me. I watched stuff from the kingston clan (mind blown that it was right under my nose and no clue). Then got more into cult documentaries.
I had not wanted to go to church for years but did so to make my husband and kids happy. But never really questioned it. I had a lot of stuff on my shelf.
Now im here...started with some mormon stories, found out about the hat and seer stone (mind blown) and keep trying to get caught up on the videos.
Who even am I? I feel so duped and betrayed and all the other things. Someone on one of the stories said that once you hear it, you cant unhear it and its so true.
Its either true or its not, right?
My mind is so blown.
Let us know if we can help @hollih4839!!! You’re not alone! ❤️🙏
I went to read about him Warren Jeff because of Mormon Podcast. He mimicked Joseph Smith. He look very charsmatic like David Koresh. My cousin and her husband were think of going to Waco but her husband told her he's to charismatic, I dont trust him. But she lost friends in that catastrophe. One of her friends, husband and wife owned a bakery here in Oahu,Kailua they died in the raid. Couple of her married friends left before they seiged the compound. One two many children died, it was so sad. David Koresh attended the Diamond Head Church in Honolulu.
Kamaaina Oahu here. I didn't know the connection to Koresh.
Wasn’t Koresh sda?
re: Episcopals + clergy project: A key moment in my faith life was hearing an episcopal priest say from the pulpit: "When we say the creed, we say 'we believe', not 'I believe.' It's not what you happen to believe or disbelieve at the moment. It's not even what *I*, your pastor, believe or disbelieve at the moment. We all believe and disbelieve different things at different times in our lives. The creed is about the principles that we choose to believe collectively, to try to cope with the world, and to make it a better place."
If other religions had that attitude, you guys would be out of a job 😊
THIS IS SO GOOD!!!
I enjoyed this so much I’ve watched three times
You both are excellent
Critical thinking skills are awesome for both of you.
Of course I was raised Mormon and I wish I was a lawyer. This was perfect thank you!!!
I’m not nor never will be a Mormon. But I like listening to you. About your crazy religion and the craziness it attracts
That was very educational
Not a Mormon. I'm a Christian. (From my view, I find those to not be compatible.) I study comparative religions. I stumbled upon your podcast by reading the book by Elissa Wall, "Stolen Innocence." Then I listened to her podcast series with you. I've wondered about your background.
as an ex catholic, ex moromon content is the like "mainstream" content I can relate to. I have SO MUCH work to do unlearning the religious and sexist nonsense that became part of my moral framework for myself that I really do not want to keep. Thank you for all the work you do.
As someone who has recently left the Mormon church, listening to our history in this context is just bonkers 😂 I’m thankful for John and others like him that helped me research the true story and realize I was in a freaking cult!
I like when you said, I like to be open and who knows that is after life!
Welcome to the human race, John Dehlin and winning the blue ribbon.
I fall asleep listening to true crime and wake up to your podcast. Not sure how that happens but this stuff is interesting and you have great guests. I’m not a Mormon and will never be a Mormon but the history is fascinating.
I think it was Ricky Gervais who said that atheism isn't a religion, in the same sense that not skiing is not a hobby. The whole thing about atheism is that it doesn't offer a set framework for identity. For me, personally, it's Russel's Teapot. I see no necessity to suppose any kind of divine intelligence or power. In fact, it only makes the universe less sensible and logical. Religion has just always seemed like working towards a premise, rather than a conclusion, to me.
I was also a Y2K consultant. I started out as a computer software trainer, and before that a computer data operator/data entry operator. I’m 65 so there was no computer training in college unless you were a business major. I was a secretarial person, so I got in as a typist basically.
I loved why 2K and I loved coding websites in HTML from scratch. Then I taught people how to do that themselves. It’s the only job I’ve ever had where I made enough money in part of a week to take the rest of the week off. That was fun.
I’m fourth generation Unitarian Universalist but I’m devout in my heart, I’m loyal, and I’m full of wonder.
When I was in high school in the mid 1970s, I was a Jesus freak for about three years. I finally quit when all these people were telling me that only God could judge anybody, but that guy over there was not a Christian. I figured that the people above me were not trustworthy, even though all the followers had such pure hearts.
No regrets.
I can tell you that the reason I listen to John’s podcast is to become well versed in Mormonism. My deceased husband was Mormon, my best friend growing up is Mormon. I’ve been surrounded by Mormons. I never converted because I had done my research. But these podcasts teach me more. I want to be able to help people in my life understand what they are involved in. I’m still trying to figure out how to approach my long time friend. Each guest that comes on brings a different element of how people react to learning the truth. I appreciate this podcast so much.
Great discussion.
Nice episode 👏
I didn't grow up religious. Occasional church. I did/ do believe in God and Jesus. When I had my kids, I wanted to introduce them to God through Church. I tried many churches and never felt at home. I looked at Mormons as so well put together and successful. I thought that must be the right way to live. But I had knew about Joseph Smith and the plates. There was no way I could get on board with that. Also, the LDS chapel in my town is so eerily still and quiet that it feels unwelcoming. So I never put much effort there. I find the story of Mormonism fascinating and am so glad I found your channel because I am learning so much!
Here’s what I never understood about the celestial kingdom. Ok so you’re sealed to your spouse and kids and you get to be together in your own world. But then your kids get married, so what world do their spouses and their children go to? And so on and so on.
Are families then grouped together in the same world? Or do you get to pick which family’s planet that you go to? I just don’t understand the generational logistics.
Ooooop I literally asked the exact same thing just a moment ago 😵
My family too is in a weird dark place, so tough!
Fantastic show. I’ve been listening to John and Mormon stories for months, but never knew the Genesis of his work. Thanks, Graham and John, for this wonderful, articulate, thoughtful episode.
I have never been Morman but I grew up with JWs, another cult. My Dad was hooked, his sister was LDS, also hooked so I often listened to them argue for years as a kid. It was stupid but I was still interested in what made people jump into that swamp so much later in life I agreed to go to Nauvoo with my aunt. Her dream and last road trip before she departed for her heaven. I started reading about Joseph Smith and learned she knew very little about his criminal life. So, she died happy in her beliefs but I remain baffled by it all.....so these podcasts provide a bitof insight.
You are right I am 55 and never knew Joseph was a polygamist let alone polyamourus. All these things are blowing my mind. I feel like a big dummy not even knowing my own religion but at the same time, they went to great lengths to cover it up. I feel violated. Thanks for bringing this to light
Such an interesting conversation!
58:34 Wait. So if true and worthy believers get their own planet to rule with their family, what happens if a man's son is also a true and worthy believer and also sealed to his own wife?
Does the son get his own planet or is he forever sealed to his father and mother to their planet?
I thought the appeal was to be sealed with your family forever in the afterlife? You can't both have your own planet AND be sealed together with your father/son if both are true worthy believers.
Regarding Agnostic vs Atheist etc. I would say 'Define God' before I'd want to answer the question. There is no solid definition and God appears to change dramatically even within the bible itself, but if you step outside religions, the word is so flexible that you could conceivably come up with a definition so broad that everyone could believe in. For example, you could define God as.. 'a yet to be understood phenomena that has produced the result of me perceiving myself to exist'. to which I'd say, yes if that's the definition of God I can believe that. I don't think labels are useful except for others to use as leverage against you by calling on collective negative bias against the label.