I'm so mad at uou r.n.! 😉. I accidentally fell asleep & woke up to this ch & this lovely man talking about his wife & children, not knowing his wife has passed til I read your comment. (Sweet comment anyway, & I could listen to him talk about his family, too🤗. ).
@Ramman1983 I do believe that His goal in sharing isn't to damage anyone's faith, but to share his own journey and how he came to it. He and his wife likely made the decisions of how to treat together. I think it is good to discuss this on a platform like this.
I grew up in my childhood ward with Martin and Jan. They were great people and strong righteous examples. I empathise with Martin and the hard year he's had losing his wife and his faith in the church.
I don't know hi, and I send my condolences for his wife and my congratulations for seeing through the lies of the church. Never too late to take the reigns of your life free of the church's indoctrination!
@@CharlieTaylor-wk4wrisn't it amazing how the interviewee did talk quite a bit about Christ and John let the interviewee talk about what he wanted to talk about? Arnt you tired of people using Christ and good messages of him to control others? Wouldn't you allege John as bad guy for using Jesus if he did talk more about Jesus? I guarantee you did this out of fear. And that's ok.
Dear Martin - your story touched my heart. Your love story is beautiful! If anyone ever asked me if they should leave the church, I would never recommend that road. Because contrary to LDS lore, people do not leave activity in the church because it is an easier path. Leaving exacts a cost. It is not for people who do not know how to embrace change, or who can’t make new friends, or who can’t find joy in other pursuits. Thank you for sharing.
It’s for people who value truth, personal autonomy, and an informed decision for all OUR progeny. I’ve four grandchildren- do I wish them to believe their worthiness of parental love is conditional to obedience?? No Way- that’s the ubermensch concept Hitler brought to our time. And even for Mormon doctrine, it’s the rule-by-submission-without-free will concept of Lucifer the fallen angel.
When I was a Mormon, I attended the temple WEEKLY. I participated in the initiatory and the endowment rituals. I knew most of the wording by heart. When I resigned from the church, I was angry because I knew that I had spent hour upon hour upon hour in the temple -- years, really. I wish that I could get that time back (as well as my tithing back)!
The work and dedication to go as often as possible, taking time to drive an hour and then be there for around 3 hrs and then go home, plus tithing and interviews. What a waste
@@jenniferglover9905 I attended the Portland Oregon Temple. I loved going because I firmly believed that I was lending a helping hand in the salvation of the dead. What a TITANIC waste of time and energy! If Jesus is really the Savior of humanity...why would he be so dependent on me (and everyone else in the temple) for the salvation of others...? The God of Mormonism is capricious....
What an absolute delight to listen. Thank you for sharing Martin Lock. I was raised mormon in New Zealand. Im grateful that I was free of the church as a young adult, but your perspective of have no regrets resonates with me, as I still had a good childhood. Moved to tears. You are a good man and your beautiful wife must be proud of you.
I grew up in Martin and Jan's ward near Bristol, they and their children used to babysit me as a kid. I also lived with them for a month while they were on the temple presidency and I was a temple worker. They are the most wonderful, beautiful people you could possibly know. I was in SHOCK when I saw Martin on Mormon stories, but this interview has made me so happy. Love you Martin, and Rest in Peace Auntie Jan ❤❤❤
Oh how fun to get such a surprise 😊. Listening to him talk about his his wife & fam made me imagine what a wonderful thing it would have bn to be a part of that. (Not Mormonism- but his family).
I remember how let down I was about Joseph. I used to defend him like I would Jesus. Bad thing I know….but my husband started to discover his truth before me and made comments about him. Comments that almost made me leave. I thought I had married a monster. Thankfully the Holy Spirit kept me safe in my marriage and led me to truth. It came later for me but I remember being led. The church hi jacked truth and twisted it with lies, but God still has a way of saving us if we just stay close to him.
I’m not yet done watching this full interview, but I did want to note that the thing that sticks out to me most is how caring and empathetic Martin is. What an amazing person with such a vast capacity for love and kindness!
Martin, you were always a Christian living the mormon experience. Now you have the wisdom and freedom to live the Christian life without the feeling of judgmental guilt or shame. Congratulations! Freedom at last, YES!
The first time I went to the temple, I didn’t realise that you had to pay to rent clothes… so I was super stressed because I had to wait for someone to bring me my wallet. So instead of thinking about Jesus and feeling relaxed it was stress and money…. Really?? With all the tithing payed and they are still asking for a few dollars for clothing rental. Looking back it was so ridiculous
@@Gree263 If you are doing baptisms, you might borrow a white jumpsuit . If you don't have a white dress or white pants and shirt of your own or slippers you would rent those items for the main ceremonies.
Wow, sorry no one told you. The rental was to pay for washing the clothes and provided jobs for handicapped and for poor women. It went to a good cause. There are also other paid jobs in the temple. Keeping our temples pristine takes a few people to oversee the nightly cleaning crews. Hired are often young people needing a job and employment for college. I miss being able to get an inexpensive, high quality meal at some of the temples. Again, the handicapped, the single moms, the older saints were given employment. So sorry, again, that you did not know. It must have been quite embarrassing for you.
The first time I entered the temple, the first thing I heard was a cash register. Such an affront to everything I was expecting or hoping for. Killed it. All I could think was how Jesus chased the money lenders out of the temple..Major red flag. First thing on the shelf. Out now 20+ years thankfully x
This is the single greatest interview on MS I’ve seen in these many years. I’m out of Mormonism +40years. I’ve told many a therapist “Mormonism killed God for me”.. After so much study (when no internet existed). This one Man: Martin Lock 3:32:- Brought Jesus alive again for me in this one moment (and I’m an agnostic/yogi/buddhist) no handshakes, passwords, or 10%$… “Grace” is the key! Jesus did it all for Us- even if he was only a man- he’s a man that said “you’re good enough” “I Forgive you”. “Try forgiving others and see how you feel” Martin mentions Satan in temple endowment (Lucifer). IT IS SATANIC. Why?= because having to earn saving is literally Anti-CHRISTian- it’s Lucifer’s plan in Mormon doctrine. Jesus taught Agape (look it up). Thank You Martin Lock, I’ve read the ‘red words’ (Jesus’ words) yet the pain has been too great these 58 years. Through you 🙏 I can finally conceptualize Jesus’ true message: GRACE. Namaste
For by Grace are ye Saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the Gift of GOD: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his Workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them. EPH 2:8-10 God Bless You Java!
I'm a former sealer. Harold B. Lee bestowed the sealing power on me in 1973. After assigned by my supervisor at The Church Offices in 1975 to research The Church Archives in our work to expand Church Welfare Services globally, I read diaries and journals of the earliest Church leaders and became shocked by what I saw and read. I'd been a sealer and temple ordinance worker for decades. However, for the most part, I agree with this man's testimony, experience, and choices. They've been my own also. Thanks for sharing this interview. I believe in The Gospel of Grace, and in the principles that reach into Eternity: Love, Light, and Truth. The Christ Resurrected is the only way, this I know!
I cannot convey how elated I am to read your testimony. SO MANY who leave LDS reject Jesus Christ & it's heartbreaking. I thank Jesus for your salvation! 😊
@@Anabee3It's like a divorce. Some are still interested in dating, others give up, no longer have faith in relationships. Not exclusive to the LdS church.
I had a friend who was preparing to go to the temple a few years ago. I was a believing but slightly irreverent member at the time. I told her with a smile, "whatever you do, don't fall off the goat!" She was very concerned, and I told her I was just teasing. We went a few times to the temple after that. Earlier this year, I revealed to her that I'd left the church. She let me know that she's also left the church with the response, "I fell off the goat." I laughed so hard.
Being a 100% active member was like being third class on the Titanic. We were all on the same boat but feeling inadequate around wealthier long time members. The ship is going down but since jumping ship we've never been happier.
Well said. Very much my experience as an”stay at home mother” and married to someone not making very much money. It seemed that all the lawyers, doctors and successful business owners set the standard in our stake.
It's accident; mistake; imperfections and weaknesses. We cannot blame captain whose driving the boat. They are human and carnal. We jumped and survive? Not all jumping survivors. Why are you use title" titanic"? it's my childhood memory hunger of love, always cry, wit my pillow every night.. the only one hope is to repent and be numbered..
@@marilynaustin7488 if your children are on the low end of the house hold income spectrum, will this give them low self esteem? I wonder if growing up in a LDS ward like that where money & status / expectations might have a negative impact on family members, cause them unhappiness or worse ?
I never felt the way some of you felt. Never felt second class. I see some of the members who are wealthier working so hard for us, setting aside work and family responsibilities so they can help others. I know some have quietly, anonymously given to a ward member in need and no one else knows, occasionally I was called into service or I would not know even that. I always felt secure in my position with God. Always known I could not buy his grace and I did not need to, but my good works could be my gift to him, my Savior. I had ancestors who knew brother Joseph personally. They have left their journals, a few of them. Very simple people. Poorly educated. But born before electricity, modern medicine, so many things we have. The world was a puzzlement to them. When others attacked them and they were driven barefoot across the corn stubbled fields running, adult and child, leaving their bloody trail, there were no walkie talkies, let alone cell phones, to help them get aid. They were totally alone and isolated. They were against slavery and their respect for their fellow man was mocked by their neighbors. We cannot understand this world. We lack the understanding of a world where women were totally vulnerable, and a pregnant woman especially so. A world that controlled with pillage and rape. One of our own was so brutally raped that it was only in hushed whispers referred to. Unless a woman was tough as nails in these hash environments at the edge of civilization. Only with a man was a little respite from fear available. Polygamy offered some safety, if chosen. It was much as in the time of Christ when a woman caught in adultery or rape was guilty, always. She was stoned, she wore the scarlet letter, while the other party threw the stone and walked off scot-free. Think of the mountain massacre. We judge them on the big picture we can clearly see. We had no cell phones, no opportunities to negotiate. Fear. What would they do to the innocent. The decision was made and now the world judges, but the world judges on a different set of values and with so much more. How can we, the rich, the knowledgable, those blessed with the history books and the big picture, judge them when they made their decisions given what they had, no communication, the fear of the women. People always make the best decisions based on the information available to them. We talk of being kind to one another, of stepping into their shoes for a day, but do we apply it to the past? I am glad for this good man’s life. So sad for the death of the wonderful woman that stood beside him. No good act will go unnoticed by our Savior when he reaches out to him and says, “come back home to me, blessed child. I’ve waited for so long, come back home.” I wonder if his wife is on the other thin side of the veil praying for him. She must be. May they both be blessed. A beautiful life dedicated to God. No matter where he goes beyond the veil, I am sure he will be happy.
I saw this too. When I was primary President the rage from the women of the doctors was unreal. Apparently a wealthier woman wanted the position. I walked into the primary room one day to see a woman of a doctor screaming and pointing her finger in the face of the bishops first counselor about me being called. The women that I asked to be my helpers began to sabatoge and it turned into such a dark energy. People say this is why I left but it was this experience that got me to ask God deeper questions and ultimately set me free. It is not God running that church. I’ve moved several times and to many states and the fruits are always the same. It’s an evil that runs that place.
I served in the London South Mission. I loved serving the people in England. It is shocking what is happening in the UK and how the church is trying to turn the narrative and hide the demise. Thank you Martin for speaking out. People need to hear this. 😢
Me too. Birmingham mission as well 14-16. It seemed to be a losing battle there. You could baptize and reactivate all day, but they would fall away very quickly-which was frustrating then, but I’m happy for these people now; hope they are happy.
I have never felt compelled to comment before until now but that was the most touching interview I have experienced. What a man. The depth of his character and love for his wife is profound and inspirational. Should we all be so fortunate as to experience such a love.
Martin and Jan have always had a very special place in my heart/childhood. As a kid growing up in the church I would often see them when they would come to Spain in the Summer holidays. They had a house in the country side, with a pool so it was always exciting when my parents said "we're gonna spend the day with the Lock family" . They were one of the first people I remember thinking as a kid: one day I wanna learn their language (English) and be able to speak with them as they were so nice to me. Now as an adult and father (living in the UK), seeing Martin in the podcast has hit me very hard. As I'm in the same position as him. Thank you Martin for sharing your life experience. I really really enjoyed it. Alfonso Martinez Jr (Cartagena)
Martin is an absolute gem! I thoroughly enjoyed listening to his story. Jan seems like an incredible woman. We are lucky to have had them both in this lifetime. My condolences to Martin, their children, and Jan’s family. ❤
Non Morman from Southern Ireland. So interesting to hear this and do go look up Irish History John!!!!! I'm facinated with your history so go look at mine!!!! Wonderful man lovely insights. CC. S o enjoy your podcasts totally fascinating insights into the human condition. And at least the ornate Catholic Churches welcome visitors and their spires ain't quite so controversial or "sacred". Ha ha go Nemo!!!!!We have a troubled and rich history and today the Catholic Church hasn't the personal intrusive and state control it had in the past. And in looking at the Mormon Church it seems amazing that 21st century people can be so stuck and brainwashed in a very blinkered very 19th century view of life and religion.
Yes!! Everyone and anyone is welcome in our Catholic churches and cathedrals. And they are all so beautiful and unique, reflecting the culture of each location. When we visited the San Diego LDS temple open house I was so disappointed in the interior design and artwork. It’s all very homogenized.
@@MaryKayZolezziThe LDS Church is like a franchise. The local units are run by cookie cutter methods such as handbooks. They are even planning to produce a new hymnbook where each number indicates the same song globally, so in France they will have the same song translated into French, etc. Similarly, the temples are now modular, reusing the same design elements for each temple.
Martin made an excellent point that the main purpose of the temple was likely to provide a mechanism and venue for secret polygamous marriages. I’d never thought of that before, but it makes so much sense! And then the other perks of having a super secret/sacred thing for people to aspire to etc.
I have listened to this podcast twice now. As an avid Mormon Stories Podcast listener, and one who left the church 34 years ago, my heart was so filled with this humble man’s story….someday I will tell mine. Thank you John for making this place for people like me to heal. Even after 34 years (I left at 30) the wound of growing up Mormon in Southern California is still deep.
I, for one, would like to hear your story. I also “left” 40 years ago and still live with the split from family members and general fallout. SoCal native as well.
It runs deep and damaging... not just to the heart, soul and relationships but the stress and damage to the body is deadly. I despise I let them destroy me when I loved them so so deeply
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Especially having grown up in the church in the 60s. Martin is right, the church’s purpose then was community and fellowship. Our friends joined the church because the Mormon kids were fun and did a lot of cool things. The boys had competitive baseball and basketball. The girls had volleyball and softball. We were fierce competitors in road shows. We had dance festivals and music fests. Stake and area dances and the Gold and Green Ball that was a bigger deal than school prom. The church WAS our lives. Even baptisms for the dead were a once-a-year social event. We had to drive 2.5 hours each way and we’d have a nice lunch and each do about 50 names. Only problem, some of us didn’t get as lucky as Martin and find the love of our lives because we were Mormon. Some of us had our self esteem sucked out of us by the church in our teens and replaced with shame and guilt. We were pressured way more about marriage back then and some of us felt like we were lucky if ANY temple worthy man wanted to marry us and we made really bad marriage decisions because we were 21 with no better marriage prospects. And when you marry a narcissistic sociopath and have children by them, you pay for that in many ways that affect the rest of your life. Even long after the marriage ends. But still we trudged on, being the best Mormons we could be. Until faced with a crisis of conscience when we stumbled upon the truth about church history and how it evolved into today’s Mormon church. And today many things are better than I thought they would be when I was nearing 70. But I know I’d have had a much easier retirement if I’d made better education, marriage, and child bearing decisions-decisions that were mostly influenced by our Mormon culture. But I wouldn’t trade my post-Mormon life for that of many of my friends and family who are more financially secure but still steeped in Mormonism. And I remind myself of that often.
Martin, thank you! As John played devil's advocate you answered his questions with the most logical and lovely responses! It's been more than 40 years since the church and I parted ways but I have only in the last 2-3 years listened to and read many of the sources you've mentioned. I knew it was wrong back then but just didn't know why. Back then my father had given me a copy of the Miracle of Forgiveness. Bad, bad book!!!!! I came inches from ending myself to stop feeling the pain of loosing the connections I once had and erase my evil self. But folks like you, John, Bill Reel, RFM, Nemo, Alyssa Grenfell...all of you bring sanity and sweet reason to this person who has felt so conflicted for so long. May you see that lovely wife again. I fear my anger and disgust with the church and it"s leaders who knowingly lead all ASTRAY has soured my belief in anything spiritual. But even that is okay. I look forward to an eventual eternal sleep. As I've since told my believing father, if there is an afterlife, God and I will have a very serious talk where I accuse him of being the worst parent and manager in the universe!
I have a feeling another reason for the temple boom might be a way for the church to deal with the money hoarding issues without giving it away to charity. Real estate is one of a few legal avenues the wealthy have to move money around.
They learned how to do that from the Scientologists. The Co$ does the same thing building all their buildings. The members think that with all the new buildings, it “proves” the church is growing
Don't forget about all of the free publicity benefiting proselytizing efforts gained by just the existence of a huge beautiful temple in rural areas! Even local city councils in turmoil about it are great free publicity for The Church.
One of the best interviews I've watched John! Thank you Martin for sharing your story. Your love for people and your community shines thru your words. Truly enjoyed listening to your Mormon story today. Thank you John, and Mormon stories for providing this space. I can't express how healing it is.
What a truly lovely bloke! A fascinating interview, one of my favorites! My heart hurts for the loss of his sweet wife and his lifelong dedication to an institution that lied to him. He seems very young in spirit and I hope his next chapter is an eyes wide open and joyful one. 🥰❤
Martin, thank you so much for voicing what so many of us have been through. When you said that it was 'devastating' to you to find out the Church's teachings weren't true, I felt you to the very core. I also had to follow my integrity and follow the same path. It is not an easy thing to do. You have definitely been my most favorite speaker on Mormon Stories. Again, many thanks and much love...
Fabulous interview from brother Mr. Lock. His faith was real, his service was real, his heart was in the right place of service. Unfortunately, truth is truth. The LDS church has a cloke over the truth of it's conception and tales. I, like so many others, served in many positions in the auxiliaries. Serving with the thought that my calling was a calling of inspiration. Not true. I filled a spot that needed to be filled. I taught what was in the lesson manual. All the while, not fitting in with the members because I questioned, i had questions that i was told to, " just have faith" Just another sheep....no more....
What a special gift I was given today. Martin Lock is a gentle, loyal, faithful, and loving gentleman. No wonder his wife loved him so. And I know just by the way he says her name he loved her with his whole heart. He is a joy to listen to. I know he would have been a delightful leader with faithful works, but he accepts his new found knowledge with wisdom and acceptance that will give him much peace. He has grown. He has moved on to a new chapter with a bit of regret, but in time he will find so much wisdom and peace. I thank him for sharing that with others. There is much to learn from this wonderful man.
Boy do I agree about the mistake the church has made in getting rid of all those cultural events the church use to have- we barely have any activities anymore- and what few we do have very little effort is put into them. Church nowadays is pretty much attend Sunday meetings and that is it.
I think what he's trying to say is he was deceived and while he was deceived through no fault of his own, he deceived others. There is no ignoring that feeling or coming back to the church from that knowledge
One of the hardest things is knowing you exposed your children to such toxic dogma. Also as Mike said, the time taken from relationships with non member family.
If it's any consolation, when I discovered the church wasn't true (in my freshman year at BYU), and in the years afterward when dealing with the feelings of betrayal, I never once got upset or felt deceived by the teachers I had in Sunday School or MIA, or the patriarch who gave me my patriarchal blessing. Or any bishop, or my parents who became converts when I was two. I felt betrayed and deceived by *Joseph Smith*. Leaving the church felt like a painful divorce, where I had to spend years "peeling the onion" trying to decide what to keep and what to toss aside from the indoctrination I'd received. We, as members, were all deceived by a con man. How were we to know? But please know... I never blamed any member of the church for that deceit. I blamed the man who laid the foundation of lies.
Wow! It has been enlightening to listen to Martin today. I have long held doubts about Joseph Smith but because I believed The BOM was true, put those doubts on the back burner. What now for me, can I be as courageous as Martin? Where do I start, what literature should I read? Help. I live in Northern Ireland and was baptised at age 13, now I’m 75. I’ve made excuses for and believed a lie all these years.😢
I am so greatful for God opening your eyes. My encouragement to you is read the bible. And only the bible ! Do not believe the "added" and "new "doctrine of the mormon church. And most importantly say what you just said to us to God. The true god- jesus christ.who was and is and is to come. One member of the holy trinity. God the father son and Holy spirit. And ask him to help you and open your eyes to the truth and he will!! Look at romans - we are saved by faith in Jesus christ alone not by our works Galatians 1:6-12 No Other Gospel I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I’m in my 70’s, during the pandemic I went thru the same experience, I feel the same way. I feel cheated, nothing is the way I was I learned thru my life in the church 😢
Fantastic interview what a lovely man and he speaks the truth. I wasted 38 years in fear of being unworthy I feel free as a bird now but feel very sad I was made to feel I was never enough x
I think the SEC investigation and fine came into play as well. The church was not using tithing money for charitable or church purposes as a tax exempt organization. So, I believe they decided to build all the temples to utilize their massive amount of wealth they built up over the years from excess tithing donations.
Martin you are so refreshing! I’m 66 , left the church four years ago when I learned all this stuff. Joined when I was fifteen, the only member in my family. Totally understand the loneliness you are feeling after leaving! Thank you for sharing your story!💕
Thank you. Martin for your complete honesty and knowledge-- I have felt the same for many many years and have quit attending 40 years ago- lost so called friends and family “ tolerate” me - but I like you can’t pretend and live a lie-- Muriel
I understand his pain and disappointment towards the church. It broke me when I found there truth. I cried and asked why would they lie to so many good people? But now I know the truth and feel free.
I had the privilege of serving a mission at London temple in the visitors centre at the same time as president Lock and his lovely wife, they took me through my endowment and I think they were also apart of my sealing. It shocked me to see him in an episode but also brought me some comfort. I'm grateful to have served with them but I'm grateful as an exmormon to have heard his experience.
Thanks John for setting up Lauren & Dr John over at HTC with those great studio mics etc.! Many viewers over there have been thanking you too in the latest episode’s comments. 👏👏👏❗️
I'm a never Mo, but I've always wondered how come no one talks about the fact that there are many families members, spouses, even grown children that someone may not want to spend eternity with! Why is it assumed that all mormon families are loving kind wonderful ones that none of them would want to be apart in the eternal kingdom? What happens with that?
Temple ordinances offer potential for eternity together. They don't guarantee it. We'll still have our agency in the hereafter and God won't force people to be together who don't want to be.
Ok that's a new twist on what is preached-- makes it all more convenient doesn't it. Never is it said your sealed in temple for eternity UNLESS you get there and decide you want other options.
Well, in the non-LDS King James Bible, it states that there is no marriage in heaven, which also means that we are not “sealed” to each other when/if we get there.
Oh my! I’m on the brink of tears. I joined the church in 1973. I was 19. The church was very strong in my state of Georgia. I met and actually converted a man 1974, and we went to the temple outside of Washington DC. the following year. By 1983,’we had 4 children. For many reasons marriage ended in 1988 and it pretty well ended both of our activity in the Church. For me, it was too hard to be divorced and being a member. I truly loved listening to this podcast. Thank you so much!
It's STILL sooooooo hard being a divorced member in the church. Being relegated to a noticably lesser status and credibility just because of my divorce status was a HUGE eye opener for me. I would probably still be a completely active TBM if it weren't for that. This was in 2015. The organization really never learns.
I'm British and have never had any connection with LDS. It was so interesting to hear Martin's experiences as a fellow Brit. Thank you for sharing your views and your story, especially about your beloved Jan. I lost my Dad to MND last year and my thoughts are with you.
The whole “you learn something new every time you go, “ is kinda gaslighty. It just covers people from having to say they have no forking clue what the point of any of it is. It’s also condescending, this little spiritual pat on the head with this implied meaning that when you’re as spiritual as the person saying it you’ll have all this knowledge unfolded to you and if you don’t it’s prob cause you’re just not good enough. And then the handshake 😂 it’s like a ten year old set up the ordinance. Can’t get in the holy treehouse Jesus club without the super secret handshake.
I was recently taken to a Masonry Grand Lodge. The visit was cloaked in secrecy because women are not welcomed. It was quite an eye opener. I can't understand how Joseph Smith thought he would get away with what he founded. How did he not foresee that his creation would be exposed as a complete ripoff of Free Masonry? I'm Irish. The guest and John are I'll informed on Irish history. Ireland was the victim of British oppression. The Mormon/Masonry hated Catholicism, blaming it for all of the world's ills. Catholicism looks upon the LDS movement as the abuser of women. Today, Ireland is a flourishing country. Britain is a sad basket case.
Because he was a conman. He was focused on the now and his ability to gaslight people. Tons of people are aware of the mason connections but never leave
LOL. Curious if you ever leaned toward another religion. No judgment. I left religious beliefs many years ago and find it freeing. For me, living a life of curiosity, integrity, compassion and community eliminates the hell, fire, and brimstone. Being free of mind controlling (this way or the Highway) and the big grift $$ felt most freeing.
What?I don't get if the membership is declining.And people are not going on missions like they once were and missionaries are leaving the church after returning from their missions.Why are they building so many temples just to fool?People into thinking that the membership is growing growing.I wonder I wonder
Real Estate is commodity- and building temples can grease palms, launder money, hide money, lose money etc. Helping ‘the surplus population’ has little return for sociopaths.
Per tax laws, they can’t keep all their money in the bank. They have to prove they are providing services to their members or the community. They build the temples for the “benefit” of their members. They learned this from the Church of Scientology.
This is the most interesting and informative interview you’ve done, John Dehlin. Martin Lock is a wise and knowledgeable man who knows the truth about the deception of the Mormon church. It confirms once again to me that I made the right decision to leave the church 3 years ago.
Martin Lock was a very nice guest and interview, John. I enjoyed his expressing his integrity and fully agree with the position he has taken regarding the church. It is wonderful hearing from an older member for a change. Those of us who are older and have left, are also living rich spiritual lives, in spite of our feelings of loss and betrayal. We have a collective memory of how much the church has morphed into something that feels quite different from what we were raised in. Please include more interviews of older members in the future. Many of us are at a stage of reconciling our beliefs and tying up loose ends in the absence of certainty in our faith. It feels like quite an adventure has opened up. Thank you.
As a fellow UK citizen, would love to have a chat with this lovely man. I don't want my records removed as it's been a huge part of my life, but I have my issues with it. And the thing is, he talks about how I feel about sacrament meeting. I want to go back but I just CAN'T with what I know now. I can't sit there and pretend to agree. It's heart breaking.
Thank you for sharing your story and providing truth to our active LDS families. Leaving is terribly difficult and can be lonely. But walking hand in hand with Jesus Christ is the definition of happiness.
And hopefully the honesty. Someday maybe TBM like you can be the heroes who can acknowledge the lies, fraud, abuse and destruction of the early deceptions and let an honest Christian denomination emerge. IOW NOT the ONLY true church (which is red light Hitler style narcissism) but, another community who embraces their culture through the love of a Man/God (doesn’t matter) offering GRACE.- namaste
@@jacoblewis2961 I believe that this man was genuine, and I trust and respect his experience. I’ve heard a lot (almost everything) against the church, but my experience and faith is based on things a lot deeper than what I’ve heard. That’s the best way I can explain it.
@@missedinformationpod I can respect that, in my own experience I cannot overlook a lot of the facts that he discussed especially about the history and it's founded Joseph Smith. For instance the book of Ambraham is not the book of Abraham and the translation is not even close to what is says. Yet the church has presented it as cannonized doctrine! It's based completely off of pure bullshit...
After leaving the church, I felt I had to go back to long lost friends and apologize and make amends. I felt I needed to repair relationships cause I put the church first even before my father and family. I feel I fixed those frienships, told them i loved them, shared drinks and solidified those relationships based on real things. Loved this episode, thank you.
I have never had my name removed. I did get the bishops, relief society presidents, etc to stop calling me. It only took moving 3 time, and finally raising my voice to get them to stop.
We have no way to record your desire not to be contacted. New bishops have a duty of care over their congregations, so if your records are transferred to their area, they will get notified and will attempt to contact you. I'm not sure what else you expect. They're not doing it to annoy you or for their own benefit.
Oh Martin thank you so much for your story! Our journeys are all somewhat unique and different and it’s always so interesting to me to see the various directions it leads. To hear you speak of your sweet wife was so beautiful.
It breaks my heart that the vast majority of those who leave the cult of mormon-ism reject our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. If they only knew the genuine Jesus Christ. 😔😪
The love story is truly beautiful. It’s fascinating to see how all of us are connected. It’s my great grandfather, grandfather and father who served in England and helped to grow the church there during the 60’s and 70’s (Joseph Fielding, and my grandfather, his son, as a mission president in Manchester, and my dad serving there). And now I’m out with 5 children after coming through Hyrum Smith and all the Mormonism in my past. It’s been a heartbreaking journey but there is no other way.
Martin is a wonderful, wonderful man; thank you John for this lovely interview. I just hope that Bart Ehrman (a biblical scholar and now an atheist) doesn't destroy Martin's faith in Jesus, because it is beautiful, and worth hanging onto.
This is the best guest you have had on, that I have seen in your shows. He is someone I could so relate to. I feel so better after watching this, that I am not crazy, I have absolutely every reason to believe the new things I have learned these last several months. I was so confused by the way I have felt about the church for the last ten plus years, and the bad experiences I had/have all make so much more sense now. I believe and have faith in Christ, so ask for God's blessings for you and those like minded, who struggle with the hurt, shame, the disgust, the manipulation from a belief system that consumed the majority of my lifetime, family members lives, and all of the sacrifice, the commitment, the betrayal to family and friends in the name of the LDS church. Shame, shame, shame on those who knew the truth and still held the secrets to themselves in God's name, I can only think, how evil; all their filty lies, and knowing I am not alone here.
It í sad that older people are all classed as feeble-minded when most are sharp and with age comes a beautiful time when the mind is able to expand and make beautiful and insightful connections, taking past learnings, see them in the big picture, and come up with what? Greater wisdom.
@@droundyCubby I would rather converse with a man who is 75 than a boy who is 17. The man who is 75 is TEEMING with experience and wisdom and cool stories; the boy who is 17 is probably entitled and cynical and addicted to his phone.
@@droundyCubby I don't think that our current president is sharp, though. I believe that President Biden is too old to be an effective leader. I'm not a Trump supporter, by the way.
i think it wise to remember Johns last words here "Be kind" Especially in the stream chat. I think the mod went a bit to rough with our faithful visitor today. And it would be best if we remember to not treat them as so many of them have treated us, did treat us, still treat us to this day. If this community is to grow, especially as a safe space for people questioning and leaving the church, we should do better at creating that environment, or they will stay in their perceived safe space- which will not be here with likes of us. i think there is a happy medium we can find between saying our piece with honesty and calling out the things we disagree with. We should try to find that balance, in hopes we do not alienate each other and others. thats all. Great pod today fam. You are all beautiful people thanks for being here.
Martin, thank you so much for sharing your story. This was one of the best Mormon stories I have ever heard. Your relationship with your wife is absolutely beautiful and something most people can only dream of.
What a story. Lovely to hear that he has come to understand that the grace and sufficiency of Jesus is all that is needed. Wishing him all the best as he moves forward.
2:58:10 It was 1998 before I knew what grace was. I had read the New Testament from cover to cover WITHOUT my preconceived Mormon upbringing in my mind. When I read Romans, the entire room exploded (in my mind). I realized the church wasn’t true. At that moment, I didn’t even know if I was real. I touched my face. I touched the bed, and I touched the wall to even know if those were real. I made a list of everything that I thought I knew was real in the world. Then I read cult recovery books. My parents and sisters are still Mormon, I look in their Sunday school manuals to see what part of Romans they contain and assign for reading. The church still skips over all the parts about grace.
Please be careful about Emma. For all we really know, Joseph had an abusive hold on her or a powerful hand of scripture over her head. The fact she didn't believe in polygamy but later did. She knew of only four wives . She kept a lot to herself. I am currently reading No Man Knows My History. Joseph was not a good person. I too am very saddened by this. He manipulated so many people . Faithful people who trusted and believed in him.
No- at least not in my upbringing. Joseph Smith and The Holy Ghost- that’s the main focus, Jesus was secondary. Likely because Joe was a malignant narcissist- he had to be number 1.
@@guymcdude5634 I agree 100%. If this man ends up applying the same logic when researching the “truth” of Christianity and the Bible as he did with the LDS faith and BofM. He ain’t out of the woods yet, not by a long shot.
@@chadwickgordon5817 It was never about the truth of Christianity, Christ is the truth, not Christianity. Of course there’s mess in Christianity, whichever group of Christians claims to have possession of true Christianity. Whatever man touches, there’s some corruption to it but it’s another thing to know the truth Himself and become more like Him as you live your “pilgrim’s progress”.
Hearing how he has gotten out and etc reminds me of a person who just wants life and people to be happy. I feel he is much more rounded about this. Not perfect... but kinda like me and kinda not. He at first seemed he is still new at leaving, but as a California mormon and my upbringing he reminds me of that. He honestly just moved past his anger and wants a good life. Honestly hearing his story makes me feel all the feelings, but it was odd because I also signed and getting ready to get my name taken from church recorders... just got the paper signed
In relation to the temple, my wife and I are both converts. She at 13, me at 26. We were married in the San Diego temple in 1999. Her family flew from England, my family drove 10 hours from Northern California. Guess what we did? Yep they all had to wait outside and only be there for family photos. Of course we told ourselves we were doing the right thing. They were hurt for years because of that. I only realized how wrong that was about a year ago. I've been doing an apology tour to all of them for excluding them. Oh how wrong we were. So messed up.
You missed some key point on why the church builds so many temples.. You are correct in that 1- The only way to show growth. 2- You commit to pay tithes and offerings to go to the temple and be sealed to your family..( like catholic indulgences in a way). 3- Self hypnosis you have to believe in the restoration 4- The Loyalty Oaths... You have to say that the 15 are prophets seers and revelators and you sustain them as such and as the only men on earth with priesthood keys etc... Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ? Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church? I taught GD, served two missions, my wife served one.. We left the church in 2023.
2:15:00 Polygamy is still practiced and believed by the church. Multiple women can be sealed for eternity to one man in the temple (after a wife dies), but women can only be sealed to one man.
One scholar I enjoyed growing up had a strong observation about Mormon doctrine- there was little about grace and forgiveness- and big on laws, rules, time, and tithing
This is pinnacle Mormon Stories right here. I love those episodes that involves former GAs and former high ranking mormon leadership people because of their insight of being in and out of the mormon faith.
I could listen to this man talk about his late wife all day. Their love is so sweet and wholesome.
I'm literally tearing up!
I'm so mad at uou r.n.! 😉.
I accidentally fell asleep & woke up to this ch & this lovely man talking about his wife & children, not knowing his wife has passed til I read your comment. (Sweet comment anyway, & I could listen to him talk about his family, too🤗. ).
🎉
@Ramman1983 you sound like someone still in the cult of Mormonism
@Ramman1983 I do believe that His goal in sharing isn't to damage anyone's faith, but to share his own journey and how he came to it. He and his wife likely made the decisions of how to treat together. I think it is good to discuss this on a platform like this.
I grew up in my childhood ward with Martin and Jan. They were great people and strong righteous examples. I empathise with Martin and the hard year he's had losing his wife and his faith in the church.
I don't know hi, and I send my condolences for his wife and my congratulations for seeing through the lies of the church. Never too late to take the reigns of your life free of the church's indoctrination!
Isn't it amazing that they don't even mention christ ever, the center of everything. John delin never talks about christ in his podcasts
@@CharlieTaylor-wk4wrisn't it amazing how the interviewee did talk quite a bit about Christ and John let the interviewee talk about what he wanted to talk about? Arnt you tired of people using Christ and good messages of him to control others? Wouldn't you allege John as bad guy for using Jesus if he did talk more about Jesus? I guarantee you did this out of fear. And that's ok.
@@CharlieTaylor-wk4wrIsn't it amazing that people can make a statement about the content of a video without ever having watched it?
@@CharlieTaylor-wk4wr why should John talk about Christ, other than to help people escape the cult of Christianity?
Dear Martin - your story touched my heart. Your love story is beautiful! If anyone ever asked me if they should leave the church, I would never recommend that road. Because contrary to LDS lore, people do not leave activity in the church because it is an easier path. Leaving exacts a cost. It is not for people who do not know how to embrace change, or who can’t make new friends, or who can’t find joy in other pursuits. Thank you for sharing.
It’s for people who value truth, personal autonomy, and an informed decision for all OUR progeny.
I’ve four grandchildren- do I wish them to believe their worthiness of parental love is conditional to obedience?? No Way- that’s the ubermensch concept Hitler brought to our time. And even for Mormon doctrine, it’s the rule-by-submission-without-free will concept of Lucifer the fallen angel.
When I was a Mormon, I attended the temple WEEKLY. I participated in the initiatory and the endowment rituals. I knew most of the wording by heart. When I resigned from the church, I was angry because I knew that I had spent hour upon hour upon hour in the temple -- years, really. I wish that I could get that time back (as well as my tithing back)!
😭😭😭
The work and dedication to go as often as possible, taking time to drive an hour and then be there for around 3 hrs and then go home, plus tithing and interviews. What a waste
All based on what they knew were lies. It should be illegal. It's just fraud in every way and so sad.
@@jenniferglover9905 I attended the Portland Oregon Temple. I loved going because I firmly believed that I was lending a helping hand in the salvation of the dead. What a TITANIC waste of time and energy! If Jesus is really the Savior of humanity...why would he be so dependent on me (and everyone else in the temple) for the salvation of others...? The God of Mormonism is capricious....
❤❤❤
What an absolute delight to listen. Thank you for sharing Martin Lock. I was raised mormon in New Zealand. Im grateful that I was free of the church as a young adult, but your perspective of have no regrets resonates with me, as I still had a good childhood. Moved to tears. You are a good man and your beautiful wife must be proud of you.
I grew up in Martin and Jan's ward near Bristol, they and their children used to babysit me as a kid. I also lived with them for a month while they were on the temple presidency and I was a temple worker. They are the most wonderful, beautiful people you could possibly know. I was in SHOCK when I saw Martin on Mormon stories, but this interview has made me so happy. Love you Martin, and Rest in Peace Auntie Jan ❤❤❤
So sweet. ❤
Nice to see you here, Luke!
An incredibly articulate guest. I can relate to his devastation in learning the truth on Joseph Smith
Oh how fun to get such a surprise 😊.
Listening to him talk about his his wife & fam made me imagine what a wonderful thing it would have bn to be a part of that. (Not Mormonism- but his family).
I remember how let down I was about Joseph. I used to defend him like I would Jesus. Bad thing I know….but my husband started to discover his truth before me and made comments about him. Comments that almost made me leave. I thought I had married a monster. Thankfully the Holy Spirit kept me safe in my marriage and led me to truth. It came later for me but I remember being led. The church hi jacked truth and twisted it with lies, but God still has a way of saving us if we just stay close to him.
I’m not yet done watching this full interview, but I did want to note that the thing that sticks out to me most is how caring and empathetic Martin is. What an amazing person with such a vast capacity for love and kindness!
I feel sorry for all of the idiots that fall away from truth and righteousness and follow apostates that lead and guide this You Tube program..
How are you so sure who the idiots are
I never learned anything new in the temple. I was always stressed out and confused in the temple.
And a little traumatized after the nekkid touching and the sui(ide pacts.
@@orisonorchards4251 🤣 extremely weird.
Same.
@@orisonorchards4251????
It's confusing until you understand that Joseph stole the ceremony from the Freemasons.
I just want to sit down and have a cup of tea with this man. Such a kind demeanor.
Martin, you were always a Christian living the mormon experience. Now you have the wisdom and freedom to live the Christian life without the feeling of judgmental guilt or shame. Congratulations! Freedom at last, YES!
The first time I went to the temple, I didn’t realise that you had to pay to rent clothes… so I was super stressed because I had to wait for someone to bring me my wallet. So instead of thinking about Jesus and feeling relaxed it was stress and money…. Really??
With all the tithing payed and they are still asking for a few dollars for clothing rental.
Looking back it was so ridiculous
Really? What did you rent? I've never heard of such a thing! Jesus would hate that😢
@@Gree263 If you are doing baptisms, you might borrow a white jumpsuit . If you don't have a white dress or white pants and shirt of your own or slippers you would rent those items for the main ceremonies.
Wow, sorry no one told you. The rental was to pay for washing the clothes and provided jobs for handicapped and for poor women. It went to a good cause. There are also other paid jobs in the temple. Keeping our temples pristine takes a few people to oversee the nightly cleaning crews. Hired are often young people needing a job and employment for college. I miss being able to get an inexpensive, high quality meal at some of the temples. Again, the handicapped, the single moms, the older saints were given employment. So sorry, again, that you did not know. It must have been quite embarrassing for you.
The first time I entered the temple, the first thing I heard was a cash register. Such an affront to everything I was expecting or hoping for. Killed it. All I could think was how Jesus chased the money lenders out of the temple..Major red flag. First thing on the shelf. Out now 20+ years thankfully x
Money changing in the temple
Martin, thanks for your honesty and love of God that has guided your life now, and I'm sure into the eternities.
❤
This is the single greatest interview on MS I’ve seen in these many years. I’m out of Mormonism +40years.
I’ve told many a therapist “Mormonism killed God for me”.. After so much study (when no internet existed).
This one Man: Martin Lock 3:32:- Brought Jesus alive again for me in this one moment (and I’m an agnostic/yogi/buddhist) no handshakes, passwords, or 10%$…
“Grace” is the key! Jesus did it all for Us- even if he was only a man- he’s a man that said “you’re good enough” “I Forgive you”. “Try forgiving others and see how you feel”
Martin mentions Satan in temple endowment (Lucifer). IT IS SATANIC. Why?= because having to earn saving is literally Anti-CHRISTian- it’s Lucifer’s plan in Mormon doctrine. Jesus taught Agape (look it up).
Thank You Martin Lock, I’ve read the ‘red words’ (Jesus’ words) yet the pain has been too great these 58 years. Through you 🙏 I can finally conceptualize Jesus’ true message: GRACE.
Namaste
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.Romans 9:5
Luke 19:27 is my favorite scripture!
Such a beautiful comment. I agree completely. Thank you to Martin and John for your dedication to truth in speaking up about this. 🙏💖
I’m in tears and looking forward to listening!
For by Grace are ye Saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the Gift of GOD: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his Workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them. EPH 2:8-10 God Bless You Java!
What a articulate, insightful, human, one of the best interviews I've heard in a long time
I'm a former sealer. Harold B. Lee bestowed the sealing power on me in 1973. After assigned by my supervisor at The Church Offices in 1975 to research The Church Archives in our work to expand Church Welfare Services globally, I read diaries and journals of the earliest Church leaders and became shocked by what I saw and read. I'd been a sealer and temple ordinance worker for decades. However, for the most part, I agree with this man's testimony, experience, and choices. They've been my own also. Thanks for sharing this interview. I believe in The Gospel of Grace, and in the principles that reach into Eternity: Love, Light, and Truth. The Christ Resurrected is the only way, this I know!
I cannot convey how elated I am to read your testimony. SO MANY who leave LDS reject Jesus Christ & it's heartbreaking. I thank Jesus for your salvation! 😊
Your kind words soothed my questioning soul!
@@Anabee3It's like a divorce. Some are still interested in dating, others give up, no longer have faith in relationships. Not exclusive to the LdS church.
@@Anabee3I’m having trouble finding any God to fill the vacuum created by the Mormon God once it was gone.
@@chubbuck35for me I discovered a larger humanity. I am not apart from it. I joined the Human Condition.
It’s always about Grace. Thank you for sharing this truth and your faith journey.
I had a friend who was preparing to go to the temple a few years ago. I was a believing but slightly irreverent member at the time. I told her with a smile, "whatever you do, don't fall off the goat!" She was very concerned, and I told her I was just teasing. We went a few times to the temple after that. Earlier this year, I revealed to her that I'd left the church. She let me know that she's also left the church with the response, "I fell off the goat." I laughed so hard.
Omg! We use the same joke before the third degree in Freemasonry!
Being a 100% active member was like being third class on the Titanic. We were all on the same boat but feeling inadequate around wealthier long time members. The ship is going down but since jumping ship we've never been happier.
Well said. Very much my experience as an”stay at home mother” and married to someone not making very much money. It seemed that all the lawyers, doctors and successful business owners set the standard in our stake.
It's accident; mistake; imperfections and weaknesses. We cannot blame captain whose driving the boat. They are human and carnal. We jumped and survive? Not all jumping survivors. Why are you use title" titanic"? it's my childhood memory hunger of love, always cry, wit my pillow every night.. the only one hope is to repent and be numbered..
@@marilynaustin7488 if your children are on the low end of the house hold income spectrum, will this give them low self esteem? I wonder if growing up in a LDS ward like that where money & status / expectations might have a negative impact on family members, cause them unhappiness or worse ?
I never felt the way some of you felt. Never felt second class. I see some of the members who are wealthier working so hard for us, setting aside work and family responsibilities so they can help others. I know some have quietly, anonymously given to a ward member in need and no one else knows, occasionally I was called into service or I would not know even that. I always felt secure in my position with God. Always known I could not buy his grace and I did not need to, but my good works could be my gift to him, my Savior. I had ancestors who knew brother Joseph personally. They have left their journals, a few of them. Very simple people. Poorly educated. But born before electricity, modern medicine, so many things we have. The world was a puzzlement to them. When others attacked them and they were driven barefoot across the corn stubbled fields running, adult and child, leaving their bloody trail, there were no walkie talkies, let alone cell phones, to help them get aid. They were totally alone and isolated. They were against slavery and their respect for their fellow man was mocked by their neighbors. We cannot understand this world. We lack the understanding of a world where women were totally vulnerable, and a pregnant woman especially so. A world that controlled with pillage and rape. One of our own was so brutally raped that it was only in hushed whispers referred to. Unless a woman was tough as nails in these hash environments at the edge of civilization. Only with a man was a little respite from fear available. Polygamy offered some safety, if chosen. It was much as in the time of Christ when a woman caught in adultery or rape was guilty, always. She was stoned, she wore the scarlet letter, while the other party threw the stone and walked off scot-free. Think of the mountain massacre. We judge them on the big picture we can clearly see. We had no cell phones, no opportunities to negotiate. Fear. What would they do to the innocent. The decision was made and now the world judges, but the world judges on a different set of values and with so much more. How can we, the rich, the knowledgable, those blessed with the history books and the big picture, judge them when they made their decisions given what they had, no communication, the fear of the women. People always make the best decisions based on the information available to them. We talk of being kind to one another, of stepping into their shoes for a day, but do we apply it to the past? I am glad for this good man’s life. So sad for the death of the wonderful woman that stood beside him. No good act will go unnoticed by our Savior when he reaches out to him and says, “come back home to me, blessed child. I’ve waited for so long, come back home.” I wonder if his wife is on the other thin side of the veil praying for him. She must be. May they both be blessed. A beautiful life dedicated to God. No matter where he goes beyond the veil, I am sure he will be happy.
I saw this too. When I was primary President the rage from the women of the doctors was unreal. Apparently a wealthier woman wanted the position. I walked into the primary room one day to see a woman of a doctor screaming and pointing her finger in the face of the bishops first counselor about me being called. The women that I asked to be my helpers began to sabatoge and it turned into such a dark energy. People say this is why I left but it was this experience that got me to ask God deeper questions and ultimately set me free. It is not God running that church. I’ve moved several times and to many states and the fruits are always the same. It’s an evil that runs that place.
I served in the London South Mission. I loved serving the people in England. It is shocking what is happening in the UK and how the church is trying to turn the narrative and hide the demise. Thank you Martin for speaking out. People need to hear this. 😢
England has much worse problems than anything that goes on in Mormonism.
Me too. Birmingham mission 07-09
Me too. Birmingham mission as well 14-16. It seemed to be a losing battle there. You could baptize and reactivate all day, but they would fall away very quickly-which was frustrating then, but I’m happy for these people now; hope they are happy.
I have never felt compelled to comment before until now but that was the most touching interview I have experienced. What a man. The depth of his character and love for his wife is profound and inspirational. Should we all be so fortunate as to experience such a love.
Much respect to Mr. Martin for his transparency, authenticity, and search for truth. Blessings and Peace from Oregon.
Go Ducks! 💛💚
Martin and Jan have always had a very special place in my heart/childhood. As a kid growing up in the church I would often see them when they would come to Spain in the Summer holidays.
They had a house in the country side, with a pool so it was always exciting when my parents said "we're gonna spend the day with the Lock family" . They were one of the first people I remember thinking as a kid: one day I wanna learn their language (English) and be able to speak with them as they were so nice to me.
Now as an adult and father (living in the UK), seeing Martin in the podcast has hit me very hard. As I'm in the same position as him.
Thank you Martin for sharing your life experience. I really really enjoyed it.
Alfonso Martinez Jr (Cartagena)
Martin is an absolute gem! I thoroughly enjoyed listening to his story. Jan seems like an incredible woman. We are lucky to have had them both in this lifetime. My condolences to Martin, their children, and Jan’s family. ❤
Non Morman from Southern Ireland. So interesting to hear this and do go look up Irish History John!!!!! I'm facinated with your history so go look at mine!!!! Wonderful man lovely insights. CC. S o enjoy your podcasts totally fascinating insights into the human condition. And at least the ornate Catholic Churches welcome visitors and their spires ain't quite so controversial or "sacred". Ha ha go Nemo!!!!!We have a troubled and rich history and today the Catholic Church hasn't the personal intrusive and state control it had in the past. And in looking at the Mormon Church it seems amazing that 21st century people can be so stuck and brainwashed in a very blinkered very 19th century view of life and religion.
Yes!! Everyone and anyone is welcome in our Catholic churches and cathedrals. And they are all so beautiful and unique, reflecting the culture of each location. When we visited the San Diego LDS temple open house I was so disappointed in the interior design and artwork. It’s all very homogenized.
@@MaryKayZolezziThe LDS Church is like a franchise. The local units are run by cookie cutter methods such as handbooks. They are even planning to produce a new hymnbook where each number indicates the same song globally, so in France they will have the same song translated into French, etc. Similarly, the temples are now modular, reusing the same design elements for each temple.
Martin made an excellent point that the main purpose of the temple was likely to provide a mechanism and venue for secret polygamous marriages. I’d never thought of that before, but it makes so much sense! And then the other perks of having a super secret/sacred thing for people to aspire to etc.
I have listened to this podcast twice now. As an avid Mormon Stories Podcast listener, and one who left the church 34 years ago, my heart was so filled with this humble man’s story….someday I will tell mine. Thank you John for making this place for people like me to heal. Even after 34 years (I left at 30) the wound of growing up Mormon in Southern California is still deep.
I, for one, would like to hear your story. I also “left” 40 years ago and still live with the split from family members and general fallout. SoCal native as well.
God Bless you Sharon. Read the Book Of Proverbs. Remember, it was the church, not JESUS CHRIST!
It runs deep and damaging... not just to the heart, soul and relationships but the stress and damage to the body is deadly. I despise I let them destroy me when I loved them so so deeply
We all will be delighted to hear your story, once you’re ready to tell it. Bless you Sharon
I'm@@bedazzlejuju
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Especially having grown up in the church in the 60s. Martin is right, the church’s purpose then was community and fellowship. Our friends joined the church because the Mormon kids were fun and did a lot of cool things. The boys had competitive baseball and basketball. The girls had volleyball and softball. We were fierce competitors in road shows. We had dance festivals and music fests. Stake and area dances and the Gold and Green Ball that was a bigger deal than school prom. The church WAS our lives. Even baptisms for the dead were a once-a-year social event. We had to drive 2.5 hours each way and we’d have a nice lunch and each do about 50 names.
Only problem, some of us didn’t get as lucky as Martin and find the love of our lives because we were Mormon. Some of us had our self esteem sucked out of us by the church in our teens and replaced with shame and guilt. We were pressured way more about marriage back then and some of us felt like we were lucky if ANY temple worthy man wanted to marry us and we made really bad marriage decisions because we were 21 with no better marriage prospects. And when you marry a narcissistic sociopath and have children by them, you pay for that in many ways that affect the rest of your life. Even long after the marriage ends.
But still we trudged on, being the best Mormons we could be. Until faced with a crisis of conscience when we stumbled upon the truth about church history and how it evolved into today’s Mormon church.
And today many things are better than I thought they would be when I was nearing 70. But I know I’d have had a much easier retirement if I’d made better education, marriage, and child bearing decisions-decisions that were mostly influenced by our Mormon culture. But I wouldn’t trade my post-Mormon life for that of many of my friends and family who are more financially secure but still steeped in Mormonism. And I remind myself of that often.
Martin, thank you! As John played devil's advocate you answered his questions with the most logical and lovely responses! It's been more than 40 years since the church and I parted ways but I have only in the last 2-3 years listened to and read many of the sources you've mentioned. I knew it was wrong back then but just didn't know why. Back then my father had given me a copy of the Miracle of Forgiveness. Bad, bad book!!!!! I came inches from ending myself to stop feeling the pain of loosing the connections I once had and erase my evil self. But folks like you, John, Bill Reel, RFM, Nemo, Alyssa Grenfell...all of you bring sanity and sweet reason to this person who has felt so conflicted for so long. May you see that lovely wife again. I fear my anger and disgust with the church and it"s leaders who knowingly lead all ASTRAY has soured my belief in anything spiritual. But even that is okay. I look forward to an eventual eternal sleep. As I've since told my believing father, if there is an afterlife, God and I will have a very serious talk where I accuse him of being the worst parent and manager in the universe!
Loved Martin’s honesty, generosity, and candid observations
I have a feeling another reason for the temple boom might be a way for the church to deal with the money hoarding issues without giving it away to charity. Real estate is one of a few legal avenues the wealthy have to move money around.
Agree
They learned how to do that from the Scientologists. The Co$ does the same thing building all their buildings. The members think that with all the new buildings, it “proves” the church is growing
Don't forget about all of the free publicity benefiting proselytizing efforts gained by just the existence of a huge beautiful temple in rural areas! Even local city councils in turmoil about it are great free publicity for The Church.
@AntonioAFelizJr and then the preceding open house tour of the Temple
Yeah, of course. It's pretty obvious, really. It's all good, though. Blessings 🙌
One of the best interviews I've watched John! Thank you Martin for sharing your story. Your love for people and your community shines thru your words. Truly enjoyed listening to your Mormon story today. Thank you John, and Mormon stories for providing this space. I can't express how healing it is.
What a truly lovely bloke! A fascinating interview, one of my favorites! My heart hurts for the loss of his sweet wife and his lifelong dedication to an institution that lied to him. He seems very young in spirit and I hope his next chapter is an eyes wide open and joyful one. 🥰❤
This man is so delightful!❤
Martin, thank you so much for voicing what so many of us have been through. When you said that it was 'devastating' to you to find out the Church's teachings weren't true, I felt you to the very core. I also had to follow my integrity and follow the same path. It is not an easy thing to do. You have definitely been my most favorite speaker on Mormon Stories. Again, many thanks and much love...
Fabulous interview from brother Mr. Lock. His faith was real, his service was real, his heart was in the right place of service. Unfortunately, truth is truth. The LDS church has a cloke over the truth of it's conception and tales.
I, like so many others, served in many positions in the auxiliaries. Serving with the thought that my calling was a calling of inspiration. Not true. I filled a spot that needed to be filled. I taught what was in the lesson manual. All the while, not fitting in with the members because I questioned, i had questions that i was told to, " just have faith"
Just another sheep....no more....
What a special gift I was given today. Martin Lock is a gentle, loyal, faithful, and loving gentleman. No wonder his wife loved him so. And I know just by the way he says her name he loved her with his whole heart. He is a joy to listen to. I know he would have been a delightful leader with faithful works, but he accepts his new found knowledge with wisdom and acceptance that will give him much peace. He has grown. He has moved on to a new chapter with a bit of regret, but in time he will find so much wisdom and peace. I thank him for sharing that with others. There is much to learn from this wonderful man.
Boy do I agree about the mistake the church has made in getting rid of all those cultural events the church use to have- we barely have any activities anymore- and what few we do have very little effort is put into them. Church nowadays is pretty much attend Sunday meetings and that is it.
I think what he's trying to say is he was deceived and while he was deceived through no fault of his own, he deceived others. There is no ignoring that feeling or coming back to the church from that knowledge
One of the hardest things is knowing you exposed your children to such toxic dogma. Also as Mike said, the time taken from relationships with non member family.
If it's any consolation, when I discovered the church wasn't true (in my freshman year at BYU), and in the years afterward when dealing with the feelings of betrayal, I never once got upset or felt deceived by the teachers I had in Sunday School or MIA, or the patriarch who gave me my patriarchal blessing. Or any bishop, or my parents who became converts when I was two. I felt betrayed and deceived by *Joseph Smith*. Leaving the church felt like a painful divorce, where I had to spend years "peeling the onion" trying to decide what to keep and what to toss aside from the indoctrination I'd received. We, as members, were all deceived by a con man. How were we to know? But please know... I never blamed any member of the church for that deceit. I blamed the man who laid the foundation of lies.
Wow! It has been enlightening to listen to Martin today. I have long held doubts about Joseph Smith but because I believed The BOM was true, put those doubts on the back burner. What now for me, can I be as courageous as Martin? Where do I start, what literature should I read? Help. I live in Northern Ireland and was baptised at age 13, now I’m 75. I’ve made excuses for and believed a lie all these years.😢
Ooh, Victoria, Read The Holy Scriptures! Start with the Gospels/New Testament; he will guide you. God Bless You.
I am so greatful for God opening your eyes. My encouragement to you is read the bible. And only the bible ! Do not believe the "added" and "new "doctrine of the mormon church. And most importantly say what you just said to us to God. The true god- jesus christ.who was and is and is to come. One member of the holy trinity. God the father son and Holy spirit. And ask him to help you and open your eyes to the truth and he will!! Look at romans - we are saved by faith in Jesus christ alone not by our works
Galatians 1:6-12
No Other Gospel
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
He is a wonderful story-teller. Thank you, John, for not rushing him along.
I’m in my 70’s, during the pandemic I went thru the same experience, I feel the same way. I feel cheated, nothing is the way I was I learned thru my life in the church 😢
Listening to Mormon Stories is way better than watching TV. 💙
Fantastic interview what a lovely man and he speaks the truth. I wasted 38 years in fear of being unworthy I feel free as a bird now but feel very sad I was made to feel I was never enough x
2:35:00 feed the hungry, love the addict, help the homeless, there is the mission field
The leader of this church is insane for building these Temples where they will eventually just,"sit there, rotting!" Perhaps, ego is at play here? 🤔
I think the SEC investigation and fine came into play as well. The church was not using tithing money for charitable or church purposes as a tax exempt organization. So, I believe they decided to build all the temples to utilize their massive amount of wealth they built up over the years from excess tithing donations.
It's such a waste! They could change millions of lives but they build dead things
It’s primarily ego, combined with a need to convert their financial reserves into tangible, non-taxable assets.
Perhaps...
Martin you are so refreshing! I’m 66 , left the church four years ago when I learned all this stuff. Joined when I was fifteen, the only member in my family. Totally understand the loneliness you are feeling after leaving! Thank you for sharing your story!💕
Thank you. Martin for your complete honesty and knowledge-- I have felt the same for many many years and have quit attending 40 years ago- lost so called friends and family “ tolerate” me - but I like you can’t pretend and live a lie-- Muriel
It's been 5 years since the Don Casias interview. Love to see an update on what's going on in temples.
I understand his pain and disappointment towards the church. It broke me when I found there truth. I cried and asked why would they lie to so many good people? But now I know the truth and feel free.
I had the privilege of serving a mission at London temple in the visitors centre at the same time as president Lock and his lovely wife, they took me through my endowment and I think they were also apart of my sealing. It shocked me to see him in an episode but also brought me some comfort. I'm grateful to have served with them but I'm grateful as an exmormon to have heard his experience.
Thanks John for setting up Lauren & Dr John over at HTC with those great studio mics etc.! Many viewers over there have been thanking you too in the latest episode’s comments.
👏👏👏❗️
Our pleasure!
I'm a never Mo, but I've always wondered how come no one talks about the fact that there are many families members, spouses, even grown children that someone may not want to spend eternity with! Why is it assumed that all mormon families are loving kind wonderful ones that none of them would want to be apart in the eternal kingdom? What happens with that?
Temple ordinances offer potential for eternity together. They don't guarantee it. We'll still have our agency in the hereafter and God won't force people to be together who don't want to be.
Ok that's a new twist on what is preached-- makes it all more convenient doesn't it. Never is it said your sealed in temple for eternity UNLESS you get there and decide you want other options.
Well, in the non-LDS King James Bible, it states that there is no marriage in heaven, which also means that we are not “sealed” to each other when/if we get there.
That’s if you take any translations of the Bible literally.
Well, we won’t have bodies, now will we? Makes sense.
I grew up in Bristol. Hearing this story in this accent is very healing for me.
Oh my! I’m on the brink of tears. I joined the church in 1973. I was 19. The church was very strong in my state of Georgia. I met and actually converted a man 1974, and we went to the temple outside of Washington DC. the following year. By 1983,’we had 4 children. For many reasons marriage ended in 1988 and it pretty well ended both of our activity in the Church. For me, it was too hard to be divorced and being a member.
I truly loved listening to this podcast. Thank you so much!
I’m so sorry. Lots of Divorced Members in the Church.
I’m in my late 50’s. I’m still single. Oh well!
It's STILL sooooooo hard being a divorced member in the church. Being relegated to a noticably lesser status and credibility just because of my divorce status was a HUGE eye opener for me. I would probably still be a completely active TBM if it weren't for that. This was in 2015. The organization really never learns.
I'm British and have never had any connection with LDS. It was so interesting to hear Martin's experiences as a fellow Brit. Thank you for sharing your views and your story, especially about your beloved Jan. I lost my Dad to MND last year and my thoughts are with you.
The whole “you learn something new every time you go, “ is kinda gaslighty. It just covers people from having to say they have no forking clue what the point of any of it is. It’s also condescending, this little spiritual pat on the head with this implied meaning that when you’re as spiritual as the person saying it you’ll have all this knowledge unfolded to you and if you don’t it’s prob cause you’re just not good enough.
And then the handshake 😂 it’s like a ten year old set up the ordinance. Can’t get in the holy treehouse Jesus club without the super secret handshake.
Martin Lock you are a true and lovely man. I know you are speaking truth. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and pain. You are loved.
I was recently taken to a Masonry Grand Lodge. The visit was cloaked in secrecy because women are not welcomed. It was quite an eye opener. I can't understand how Joseph Smith thought he would get away with what he founded. How did he not foresee that his creation would be exposed as a complete ripoff of Free Masonry?
I'm Irish. The guest and John are I'll informed on Irish history. Ireland was the victim of British oppression. The Mormon/Masonry hated Catholicism, blaming it for all of the world's ills. Catholicism looks upon the LDS movement as the abuser of women.
Today, Ireland is a flourishing country. Britain is a sad basket case.
Because he was a conman. He was focused on the now and his ability to gaslight people. Tons of people are aware of the mason connections but never leave
I'm from the UK. The historical commentary re Ireland was cringe worthy. Our Irish son in law would not have been impressed.
Interesting
I think he thought he’d get away with the Masonic ceremony because he NEVER thought we’d have computers and global communication. 😮
@@PatriciaNoel-qp2ff and his ability to gaslight and con people. lots of people know about masonry but are still mormon
I joined alone @ 14 and got asked to sit down in a branch meeting when I gave a talk. I was 16. Never went back.
I hope & pray you went on to a real relationship with Jesus Christ & accepted the salvation he offers.
LOL. Curious if you ever leaned toward another religion. No judgment. I left religious beliefs many years ago and find it freeing. For me, living a life of curiosity, integrity, compassion and community eliminates the hell, fire, and brimstone. Being free of mind controlling (this way or the Highway) and the big grift $$ felt most freeing.
@@Anabee3 One cult to another?
I am sorry. That is messed up
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean you were told to sit down .. A bit confused.
What a beautiful and truly loving man. I wish I could hear more of his story.
What?I don't get if the membership is declining.And people are not going on missions like they once were and missionaries are leaving the church after returning from their missions.Why are they building so many temples just to fool?People into thinking that the membership is growing growing.I wonder I wonder
A way to use the billions.
Real Estate is commodity- and building temples can grease palms, launder money, hide money, lose money etc. Helping ‘the surplus population’ has little return for sociopaths.
Per tax laws, they can’t keep all their money in the bank. They have to prove they are providing services to their members or the community. They build the temples for the “benefit” of their members. They learned this from the Church of Scientology.
This was one of my favorite Mormon Stories interviews I've ever listened to. He is such an incredible and sweet man
I’m sorry for your loss. I could tell you really really loved your wife. Stay true to Jesus and not religion.
This is the most interesting and informative interview you’ve done, John Dehlin. Martin Lock is a wise and knowledgeable man who knows the truth about the deception of the Mormon church. It confirms once again to me that I made the right decision to leave the church 3 years ago.
Martin Lock was a very nice guest and interview, John. I enjoyed his expressing his integrity and fully agree with the position he has taken regarding the church. It is wonderful hearing from an older member for a change. Those of us who are older and have left, are also living rich spiritual lives, in spite of our feelings of loss and betrayal. We have a collective memory of how much the church has morphed into something that feels quite different from what we were raised in. Please include more interviews of older members in the future. Many of us are at a stage of reconciling our beliefs and tying up loose ends in the absence of certainty in our faith. It feels like quite an adventure has opened up. Thank you.
As a fellow UK citizen, would love to have a chat with this lovely man. I don't want my records removed as it's been a huge part of my life, but I have my issues with it. And the thing is, he talks about how I feel about sacrament meeting. I want to go back but I just CAN'T with what I know now. I can't sit there and pretend to agree. It's heart breaking.
Thank you for sharing your story and providing truth to our active LDS families. Leaving is terribly difficult and can be lonely. But walking hand in hand with Jesus Christ is the definition of happiness.
Active member of the lds church here… I’m very appreciative of the respectfulness of John.
And hopefully the honesty. Someday maybe TBM like you can be the heroes who can acknowledge the lies, fraud, abuse and destruction of the early deceptions and let an honest Christian denomination emerge. IOW NOT the ONLY true church (which is red light Hitler style narcissism) but, another community who embraces their culture through the love of a Man/God (doesn’t matter) offering GRACE.- namaste
He's not the demon TBMs wish him to be.
Do you believe what this gentleman said? If so why are you still an active member?
@@jacoblewis2961 I believe that this man was genuine, and I trust and respect his experience. I’ve heard a lot (almost everything) against the church, but my experience and faith is based on things a lot deeper than what I’ve heard. That’s the best way I can explain it.
@@missedinformationpod I can respect that, in my own experience I cannot overlook a lot of the facts that he discussed especially about the history and it's founded Joseph Smith. For instance the book of Ambraham is not the book of Abraham and the translation is not even close to what is says. Yet the church has presented it as cannonized doctrine! It's based completely off of pure bullshit...
After leaving the church, I felt I had to go back to long lost friends and apologize and make amends. I felt I needed to repair relationships cause I put the church first even before my father and family. I feel I fixed those frienships, told them i loved them, shared drinks and solidified those relationships based on real things. Loved this episode, thank you.
I have never had my name removed. I did get the bishops, relief society presidents, etc to stop calling me. It only took moving 3 time, and finally raising my voice to get them to stop.
We have no way to record your desire not to be contacted. New bishops have a duty of care over their congregations, so if your records are transferred to their area, they will get notified and will attempt to contact you. I'm not sure what else you expect. They're not doing it to annoy you or for their own benefit.
This is one of the best interviews of all time .
Great job , thank you for sharing .
Glad you enjoyed it!
Oh Martin thank you so much for your story! Our journeys are all somewhat unique and different and it’s always so interesting to me to see the various directions it leads. To hear you speak of your sweet wife was so beautiful.
It breaks my heart that the vast majority of those who leave the cult of mormon-ism reject our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. If they only knew the genuine Jesus Christ. 😔😪
I knew this guy from east grinstead ward and served in the same mission. Awesome to hear a uk relatable story on here 😀
The love story is truly beautiful.
It’s fascinating to see how all of us are connected. It’s my great grandfather, grandfather and father who served in England and helped to grow the church there during the 60’s and 70’s (Joseph Fielding, and my grandfather, his son, as a mission president in Manchester, and my dad serving there).
And now I’m out with 5 children after coming through Hyrum Smith and all the Mormonism in my past.
It’s been a heartbreaking journey but there is no other way.
Martin is a wonderful, wonderful man; thank you John for this lovely interview. I just hope that Bart Ehrman (a biblical scholar and now an atheist) doesn't destroy Martin's faith in Jesus, because it is beautiful, and worth hanging onto.
This is the best guest you have had on, that I have seen in your shows. He is someone I could so relate to. I feel so better after watching this, that I am not crazy, I have absolutely every reason to believe the new things I have learned these last several months. I was so confused by the way I have felt about the church for the last ten plus years, and the bad experiences I had/have all make so much more sense now. I believe and have faith in Christ, so ask for God's blessings for you and those like minded, who struggle with the hurt, shame, the disgust, the manipulation from a belief system that consumed the majority of my lifetime, family members lives, and all of the sacrifice, the commitment, the betrayal to family and friends in the name of the LDS church. Shame, shame, shame on those who knew the truth and still held the secrets to themselves in God's name, I can only think, how evil; all their filty lies, and knowing I am not alone here.
Wow. This man is sharp. His memory seems to be very clear.
It í sad that older people are all classed as feeble-minded when most are sharp and with age comes a beautiful time when the mind is able to expand and make beautiful and insightful connections, taking past learnings, see them in the big picture, and come up with what? Greater wisdom.
@@droundyCubby I would rather converse with a man who is 75 than a boy who is 17. The man who is 75 is TEEMING with experience and wisdom and cool stories; the boy who is 17 is probably entitled and cynical and addicted to his phone.
@@droundyCubby I don't think that our current president is sharp, though. I believe that President Biden is too old to be an effective leader. I'm not a Trump supporter, by the way.
@@jeffcarlin5866but, who to vote for is the biggest question!!
i think it wise to remember Johns last words here "Be kind"
Especially in the stream chat. I think the mod went a bit to rough with our faithful visitor today. And it would be best if we remember to not treat them as so many of them have treated us, did treat us, still treat us to this day.
If this community is to grow, especially as a safe space for people questioning and leaving the church, we should do better at creating that environment, or they will stay in their perceived safe space- which will not be here with likes of us. i think there is a happy medium we can find between saying our piece with honesty and calling out the things we disagree with. We should try to find that balance, in hopes we do not alienate each other and others.
thats all. Great pod today fam. You are all beautiful people thanks for being here.
So so so sad that people on benefits are effectively locked out of the temple. What the heck are leadership thinking?
The same holds true for retired people. Many retired people cannot afford to pay 10% to a filthy rich church which hoards the money anyway.
Martin, thank you so much for sharing your story. This was one of the best Mormon stories I have ever heard. Your relationship with your wife is absolutely beautiful and something most people can only dream of.
A wonderful interview ❤
What a story. Lovely to hear that he has come to understand that the grace and sufficiency of Jesus is all that is needed. Wishing him all the best as he moves forward.
2:58:10 It was 1998 before I knew what grace was. I had read the New Testament from cover to cover WITHOUT my preconceived Mormon upbringing in my mind.
When I read Romans, the entire room exploded (in my mind). I realized the church wasn’t true.
At that moment, I didn’t even know if I was real. I touched my face. I touched the bed, and I touched the wall to even know if those were real.
I made a list of everything that I thought I knew was real in the world. Then I read cult recovery books.
My parents and sisters are still Mormon, I look in their Sunday school manuals to see what part of Romans they contain and assign for reading.
The church still skips over all the parts about grace.
Such a relatable deconstruction story shared by Bro. Lock. Thank you for this episode. My heart is with you.
Please be careful about Emma. For all we really know, Joseph had an abusive hold on her or a powerful hand of scripture over her head. The fact she didn't believe in polygamy but later did. She knew of only four wives . She kept a lot to herself. I am currently reading No Man Knows My History. Joseph was not a good person. I too am very saddened by this. He manipulated so many people . Faithful people who trusted and believed in him.
Love the integrity of your guest! A church who absorbs so many lies can't claim the Truth at the same time.
😮..."actual Satan's character in the temple"!? Is this a Christ centered church?🤔
Yes. Satan is an actual character in the temple. It’s a cult.
No- at least not in my upbringing. Joseph Smith and The Holy Ghost- that’s the main focus, Jesus was secondary. Likely because Joe was a malignant narcissist- he had to be number 1.
@@jivajenmoreno-adams9984 Are you disagreeing that Satan is in the temple?
I remember 20-30 years ago, when a general authority said in general conference, “Christ might not return for 200 years.”
This podcast makes me so grateful to have been a Methodist for the last forty years.
Oh the pain you could feel upon realizing the con of Christianity. Take note this episode could easily be you.
@@guymcdude5634 Don't be so arrogant. We all realize that. The distinctions in theology is what's important in this case!
@@guymcdude5634 I agree 100%. If this man ends up applying the same logic when researching the “truth” of Christianity and the Bible as he did with the LDS faith and BofM. He ain’t out of the woods yet, not by a long shot.
@@chadwickgordon5817 It was never about the truth of Christianity, Christ is the truth, not Christianity. Of course there’s mess in Christianity, whichever group of Christians claims to have possession of true Christianity. Whatever man touches, there’s some corruption to it but it’s another thing to know the truth Himself and become more like Him as you live your “pilgrim’s progress”.
Hearing how he has gotten out and etc reminds me of a person who just wants life and people to be happy. I feel he is much more rounded about this. Not perfect... but kinda like me and kinda not. He at first seemed he is still new at leaving, but as a California mormon and my upbringing he reminds me of that. He honestly just moved past his anger and wants a good life. Honestly hearing his story makes me feel all the feelings, but it was odd because I also signed and getting ready to get my name taken from church recorders... just got the paper signed
In relation to the temple, my wife and I are both converts. She at 13, me at 26. We were married in the San Diego temple in 1999. Her family flew from England, my family drove 10 hours from Northern California. Guess what we did? Yep they all had to wait outside and only be there for family photos. Of course we told ourselves we were doing the right thing. They were hurt for years because of that. I only realized how wrong that was about a year ago. I've been doing an apology tour to all of them for excluding them. Oh how wrong we were. So messed up.
By there green aprons ☘️and they're 🍏💚 Jello ye shall indeed know them "
Outstanding interview! Thank you. I was also a 50 yr member, joining at the age of 42.
Wow, How old are you now?
Can you add?50+42=?
They could as young ad 92 or they could be 102, understand?
Him talking about his wife brought tears to my eyes. What a beautiful relationship they had!
Loved road shows as a young teen. Thw whole ward came together. Unfortunatly tjey stopped wen I was about 13
You missed some key point on why the church builds so many temples.. You are correct in that 1- The only way to show growth. 2- You commit to pay tithes and offerings to go to the temple and be sealed to your family..( like catholic indulgences in a way). 3- Self hypnosis you have to believe in the restoration 4- The Loyalty Oaths... You have to say that the 15 are prophets seers and revelators and you sustain them as such and as the only men on earth with priesthood keys etc...
Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?
I taught GD, served two missions, my wife served one.. We left the church in 2023.
So true.
2:15:00 Polygamy is still practiced and believed by the church. Multiple women can be sealed for eternity to one man in the temple (after a wife dies), but women can only be sealed to one man.
I don’t like the word “ward” it really grates my spirit
One scholar I enjoyed growing up had a strong observation about Mormon doctrine- there was little about grace and forgiveness- and big on laws, rules, time, and tithing
This is pinnacle Mormon Stories right here. I love those episodes that involves former GAs and former high ranking mormon leadership people because of their insight of being in and out of the mormon faith.