I appreciate Megan discussing childhood emotional neglect. The absence of emotional validation in childhood is so harmful and lasting, and many victims have no idea this is why they are struggling, even as adults.
I’m so confused why Kevin gets a pass for his pre-Jody parenting choices. On the channel, he is clearly complicit & enabling the harm Ruby is doing. I don’t blame him to the same extent as Ruby especially once Jody got in the picture. But it’s interesting in seeing how the internet responds to him vs someone like Jen Soto. Is it because we subconsciously don’t give fathers the same agency in parenting as mothers, seeing mothers as the default primary parent? Idk but it’s interesting to think about
I blame Kevin equally. He abandoned his children. He said he hadn't seen them in over a yr I think. That's not a father. That's a whipped dog. As a father I could never let that happen no matter the reason or consequence
Agreed. Jodi hurt countless families, and her tactics were particularly unforgiving towards the men- HOWEVER, Kevin doesn’t deserve to ride the coat-tails of heroes like Adam Steed. Kevin was happy to go along with Ruby’s cold blooded parenting tactics WELL BEFORE Jodi entered their lives.
Yes!! It angers me to no end that he is painted like the "good guy" in this evil mess 😡! Firstly his absence alone is a huge failure as a father to protect his children ...he hadn't seen them in over a year at the time of the arrest. It sounds like he knew things were spiriting out of control and Could see that the fake live in t"therapist " had her claws fully sunk in and he simply nope'd out and left his children to face the emotional turmoil that he himself couldn't hack 🤯.! I don't care if people say "they wouldn't let him see the kids" ...well he had an entire year to go to court and fight for his children if he was so protective ..but he did NOTHING ! Even if he was unaware of Just how bad the abuse had got ..it's his fault because he didn't even visits his children ...if he was so scared of the Witches why not go to the authorities to protect your dam kids!! Even "if" he truly had no idea about the horrific stuff going down in that house ....WHY ...did he call her up after she was arrested and the kids horrendous injuries/treatment were exposed and tell her that he's on her side and loves her spa much 🤢
thank you! its so wild to me how kevin could be so deep in a strongly patriarchal religion that has SO much to say about men being "the head of the household" and then just stand by and let his wife continue to publicly exploit his kids???? it's like kevin wtf were you doing??
I listened to the entire audio book in a day. Couldn't stop listening... Shari is the narrator and hearing her tell her story was heart wrenching and captivating.
Seeing how Kevin “folded” to Jodi’s pressure it made me want to applaud Adam Paul Steed all the more! 👏👏👏 He recognized the manipulation & tried to fight it & Jodi. He deserves a medal of honor!
He didn’t notice it right away though. People fall victim to cults all the time. You guys expect Kevin to be so high and mighty that he’s above everything.,
I reiterate what Megen said. I didn’t realize how impactful this book would be. No, I’ve never been Mormon. No my family didn’t plaster me all over TH-cam growing up. No, my mom didn’t join a cult or harm my younger siblings the way hers did. However, this is also a coming of age story. It’s also a girls story. It’s also a dysfunctional family story. It’s a religious trauma story. It’s a mental health story. It’s a seeking help story…. There are so many ways I connect to this book and I cried at so many moments reading it. This book is important!
I want to praise all of you for the kindness and empathy you brought to the discussion of this book. I also appreciate that the one man in the group left space for the women to discuss their difficult experiences within the church. You all seem like genuinely kind people.
You all really are some of the best podcasters and when you’re all together, you’re on fire. Just fabulous, all of you. Thank you for not only this episode, but all the hard work you all do individually too
I had to drive almost 4 hrs today. I so enjoyed this podcast. (I finished it at my destination). Wow, what a book by Shari. I cried a lot for her. All of you are awesome. Thank you!
Someone said that sharis story of sa did not really connect to rubi but i would debate that. She was groomed to shut down and not be a voice or a person and push her feelings away from herself and her fisrt thought is not "what the h do you think you are doing! Get off me! " It was "oh nono onono not this!" Defeated by shame and groomed to not be rude or offended when showered w inappropriate gifts. Starved for attention. before her predator even made a move, she had been carefully groomed by her mother and the church. Another horrible experience she will have to heal herself . 😢
It also adds to the understanding of generational trauma. Having a hard childhood doesn’t prepare you better for adult life, it weakens you, makes you susceptible to worse stuff
@@TheMouse-gc9ft my hope is for healing among the siblings. It has seemed to me like the youngest two got the brunt of Ruby’s physical behavior, but the two middle girls were taught to trust “no one “ no even their siblings. I also wonder if Shari ever encountered Pam Borchardt, cause she does seem to have a hand in this, even if not to the extent as the youngest.
Some of you haven’t been in an abusive relationship. It appears kevin was in a mentally a suite relationship. (Men can also be abused) just because she was a woman doesn’t mean she couldn’t a suite him and reduce him to nothing.
Yup! Not sure if you read the book but she covered that. She pointed out how she learned to “fawn” because of how Ruby retreated her and in the situation with Derek she was “fawning.”
There is something so right about these long format livestreams on Mormon Stories. Thank you for your vulnerability to the panel. Megan even looks gorgeous while in tears. Shari Franke is to be commended for all of her work. If there is a child in the thumb nail, please do not click!
Yes I’m a never Mormon and so appreciate these long format interviews, oh and getting to know…women. And of course men, couples. Never thought this would be one of my most viewed channels.
I’m never Mormon and I wanted to say that authoritative parenting is not only an LDS method of parenting. I was a child in the’60’s and my parents and others parented the same way. Let the baby cry itself to sleep was a common practice. I remember when my parents were babysitting their first grandchild. I was about 8 when my nephew cried so much, I was in bed crying for the baby. That emotion stuck with me all these years. I don’t blame parents though, because they were doing the best they knew. Many followed Dr. Spock’s book on raising children.
I was interested in this story and this came up on my algorithm, and so am new to the channel. I appreciate so much how the male moderator gives so much room for the women to talk and asks great questions of them!
This channel is amazing for truly sincere and heartfelt discussions. I'm not LDS but this deconstruction of the religion is endlessly fascinating as there are SO many Mormon Stories. 💫
I'm not convinced Ruby Franke ever did want kids. I know that sounds crazy, but Ruby seems to me like she gets ahold of an idea and sort of unquestionably follows it like instructions that will work for everyone, so when her family and her church told her "your fate is marriage and motherhood, that is the only place where you will find success. " I don't think it crossed her mind that she might not _like_ dealing w kids, and I think she struggled to empathize with Sheri or be patient with her (to put it mildly), as though mothering was not like what she thought it would be like.
I think Ruby saw motherhood as her only means of controlling others within her patriarchal religious structure. She wanted kids because those kids would be the people that she knew she could control completely which is what she craved most.
@@amyk6319 this is true and was the case in my family, where my mother knew she wanted 12 children, asked my dad before they married if he was up for it, he said yes and so they did. Only, my mom then controlled everything (including him, as much as he went along with what she demanded). I believe this happens in many Mormon families, with mom ‘needing’ someplace to feel in control, ‘on top’ of it all, though I don’t feel that this is consciously understood, admitted or realized by the women who are in, and perhaps feel forced into, this role.
to take it further, i think she resented motherhood and her treatment of her last two kids demonstrates how her resentment manifested. ruby was brainwashed into believing her only worth is in having children and being a stay-at-home mom, but it's not what she truly wanted and she took it out on her kids for sure
What an amazing group, thank you for this discussion. You all took this on with so much respect and kindness. Protecting Shari, and each other’s differences with love. Thank you 😊
I learned the hard way that when I began to take responsibility for my actions and get myself straightened out, my children’s behavior also improved. Focusing on “fixing” our children is often a way we ignore our own problematic behavior. 1:55
OK you got me. At an hour and a half in I sample read the first 6 chapters and have now downloaded the audiobook. I'll come back to the video after I finish the book. It is so wonderful that despite her experiences Shari is a kind, funny and expressive person who stands up for justice and human rights.
Just came back wanted to say.. WOW Megan today must have been a whirlwind (emotionally etc) and you are holding it DOWN! I am always so happy when I get the opportunity to hear you speak..your comfort in your own skin, vulnerability and compassion always shine through ❤️🩹💛
I’m so impressed by the emotional maturity and perspective of Shari. Just a note to the inner child of Shari: you don’t have to do or be anything different to please anyone anytime; you’re fine as is.
I was never at the level of Ruby Franke and gave nurture and love to my babies and kids but I felt a bit of guilt and shame listening to this and how some of the LDS doctrines affected my parenting. We were taught to an extent that our kids behavior was on us and it was our job to save them and make sure they were faithful and obedient. This was good parenting. We weren’t taught that kids are independent humans and how to respect their choices on different levels. It did open a convo with my adult kids. I apologized for how my expectations affected them and grace was given for the things we as parents were taught and indoctrinated with.
Love this quartet! Thank you for the deep dive! And this book sounds amazing! A really insightful telling of her own story! I'm very impressed with Shari!
Just started watching American Primeval yesterday, couldn’t keep my eyes off of it and realized my high school teacher taught me about this specific time in history. My history teacher was an ex Mormon in Colorado. It was the apart of the beginning of my deconstruction in the church. He knew exactly what he was doing.
I am here because of Lauren, the host is/was correct, she is wonderful and amazing. I learned a lot so far. I am just 45 minutes in and hope to catch up more later. I just ordered the book and hope to read it in the next few weeks. TY great presentation so far. I will like and subscribe.
I didn’t realize how long this episode was until I was 2 hours in! I could have watched even longer! Great commentary. I appreciated the vulnerability that was shared by the panel. Shari is a truly remarkable woman. She is so young to already have this much awareness of the problems of her upbringing. I wish her nothing but the best in her future.
In Germany they have law against parents showning children on the net! We in Sweden are working to copy that. Here its not ok for any school daycarecenter, any concept that involves children
I grew up in a family deeply embedded in the belief system that underpins waldorf education (anthroposophy). I've known for decades it's extremely toxic and has cult-like overlaps, but it still shocks me how much the culture of emotional/psychological abuse and neglect described in mormonism is utterly familiar to me. The description of SA, the cruelty of shari's parents manipulating her into paying for the meal where she'd hoped to find support, the groundwork laid by her narcissistic family culture that left her a prime target for a groomer and sexual predator - it's all stuff that's so familiar i feel momentarily unable to do anything but collapse and sleep. Poor, poor kid. It's heartbreaking
This is so important to talk about and discuss. I hope Shari's experience and emotions will be listened to and will reach parents who are brrought up to parent the same way❤
3:38:22 Can I get that on a t-shirt? This was such an excellent roundtable. Thanks to everyone at MS for putting this together, and thanks to Lauren, Megan & Mindy for traveling & presenting on such short notice. I so appreciate the sharing of your personal experiences. Your opinions are valuable & important to me. The conversations had in this episode are vital & need to be had publicly & repeatedly. My hope is that doing so will pierce the bubble. Mormon children deserve so much better, as does everyone else. Shari’s book is the 1st first purchase on my new Audible subscription.
Legit question, since I’m not immersed in this world: How many of these family bloggers preach (pun intended) about _not_ letting children be exposed to social media _while putting their children on social media?_ I feel like the Venn diagram of pearl clutching about children’s internet access and making money off of family vlogging is a circle.
In a very small part i also see myself in Shari. The fawning as a response to the trauma of a dysfunctional family is something I'm trying to unlearn. I admire her strenght for sharing her story and i wish her and her siblings all the best for their future!
Extraordinary. Cannot believe I listened to the end. I’m glad I did. Meegan at the end really helped me understand narcism and how it develops. I spent 20 years in high demand religion led by my partner and I wondered how it seems his narcissism seemed to get worse. I wasn’t sure when and where it started and how blind was I from the beginning.
Great podcast 👏👏👏 After reading the book, I would love you to talk more about Pam please. She’s as bad as Ruby and Jodie. I also would like a more in-depth discussion about the in-laws on each side of the family. And the Haymonds, only for them god knows what may have happened to Shari, they gave her the strength to fight and their support is outstanding. If you’re reading this Shari, you are a wonderful young girl, you saved your siblings and one day you’ll be known for the good you’ve brought to this world and the changes you’ve brought to into law to keep children safer ❤🇮🇪
What a great group of smart people and glad you’re covering this book. I put this in my audio book queue (read by author) yesterday. This channel’s in depth coverage of the Franke/Hildebrandt case (through long form, thoughtful interviews) is so helpful. So heartbreaking what happened to Shari re D. I was not expecting that. First I’m glad there’s more understanding of the freeze response now. This a valid and not uncommon response. Megan, you mention how women blame themselves. I recently saw a doc re adult men s/a’d by a certain celebrity years ago. Tough guys. 30s. Ex military in some cases. That was part of the “thrill” for the s/a-er it seems. They routinely thought “what did I do to cause this” and felt shame. Amazing. Why do women and men have that bio-response? And then I think of very young people trying to work through this…
This was a hard episode to watch, but you were all spot on with your critique of life inside the Mormon bubble. I just want more people to understand what it is like to be raised in a Mormon family.
This was a wonderful episode. Thank you so much for sharing so vulnerably. I wish I knew at 20 what I know now at 61 years old, but it never too late to learn to trust your instincts and love yourself. It is great that Shari shared her journey with us.
Does Shari address her relationship with Kevin in this book? He was so NASTY to her after Ruby got arrested. He tried to get Shari arrested for going with CPS to the house to pick up clothing and belongings for the little kids she was granted temporary custody of. She was graciously putting her own life on hold to raise Kevin and Ruby's children, and Kevin wanted Shari in jail. ANY sympathy I may have had for Kevin (and he really deserves none) was gone just from how he treated Shari. 😮
Ruby actually had a steady boyfriend from age 15 until she finished high school. She made a video when Shari turned 16 talking about how proud she was she was doing things differently then she had as she had spent the evening of her own 16th birthday driving around with her steady boyfriend and kissing him. I’m a reformed shameful past viewer of 8 passengers. I grew up in an unstable home and the image the channel put off appealed to 18yo me and since my own mum was catholic and had a relatively strict parenting style, at least up until my mid teens anyway, so ruby’s style didn’t seem too out of the realm to me. Sure she was more strict than my own mum, but not by an unimaginable amount. By the end of my early 20’s I was having a very different view on the channel and stopped watching early 2020.
I just love the work the four of you do on behalf of humanity. You model the tenderness and empathy that we all need ALL the time. Thank you for covering the difficult topics with so much heart. The band needs to do more epic book book studies! Looking forward to the next one (hint, hint)!
I love every one of these women - they are all inspirations! Let me just add that the last time y'all got together I almost cracked a rib laughing with John, who couldn't stop chuckling at one of Jody's videos (the word "hard" was mentioned many times). I will buy Shari's book after listening to today's discussion. I was so horrified by her account of SA and how she was treated by the church afterwards. I mean, I grew up in the church and already know how this sort of story goes, but hearing Shari's own story was so haunting and made me sick to my stomach. Someone expose the perpetrator, please. Justice for Shari!
Accolades to Shari for her courage, strength, wisdom and authenticity. All the caregivers and adults in her life failed her. Seemingly by her BYU affiliation, she has not yet realized the LDS faith has also failed her. Shari has a bright and promising future.
After reading this book I am even more convinced that Ruby is an incredibly angry, belligerent woman who never liked being a parent and took it out on her children. I can’t imagine parenting the way Ruby did. I feel for Shari and her siblings the layers of trauma and betrayal they must have experienced in that family must be immense.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔 So much similarity to my life under the Plymouth Brethren / Cslvsnist / Bob Jones / Bill Gothard / Dianetics etc dynamics that my father and stepmother were immersed in. The 'Everything is good in public' rings loudly. "Your Spirit just needs to be broken" was the 'go to' dictum. When I was finally sent to secular counseling and it was suggested that my issues were understood to be linked to a dysfunctional family dynamic needing to be addressed. The thought that my parents needed to be included in counseling, too, was dismissed, and that was that. I was sent to BJA for handling. So much to unpack here. Thank you so much. Need to get the audio book if and when it is available.
There is so much to be learned from this book. I can't even imagine the level of courage it took to release it. I personally am apart of an organization that are online decoys that pose as underage kids and online preds reach out to us. Long story short, we always involve police. Shari describing her interactions with that man happens more often than people realize. As a decoy, we get told those same things on a daily basis. All in hopes that in these predator's minds, they can gain more and more control. It's crazy to me still how these people can find those who are lost in life almost like a heat seeking missle. I have to give her huge props for sharing such an awful time in her life and I hope that it helps people see the different signs of abuse. I'm excited to see what her future holds.
Awesome panel. Absolutely loved it. Shari(edit) is an amazing strong women. I hope her and her family get to heal and I will definitely be buying the book.
Scientific studies show that when someone is filming they are detached from what is going on in front of the lens. It applies to cameras recording crimes in process without stepping in to help a victim.
I watched 8 Passengers, E&J, Bonnie, and Jennifer (Chad) Griffith vlogs, as well as followed them on Instagram. After Ruby was arrested, I began to reflect on the similar underlying tone of Bonnie & their mother's vlogs. It made me feel like Ruby's upbringing mirrored her own childrearing. Ruby's style of discipline (abuse) was learned, she experienced what she inflicted on her kids. Bonnie's own vlogs also touched on the, "spoil the rod" approach to discipline. Although since Ruby's incarceration Bonnie has rolled back on that what she showed on her vlog. I often felt like Bonnie's eldest child, Olivia would similarly have her own realization as her cousin Shari. I truly hope that the Griffith, Mecham, Hollein, and Deru (Shari's maternal family) will read the book with an open mind, and heart. As I say this the only one I feel that will be genuine will be her aunt Julie, only bc right b4 the Deru's moved the were very present in Shari's life as a safe landing spot during her chaos.
I’m the same as you in following all the family. I met them all at a meet up. The only one I didn’t care for was Jared’s father. I even talked to Ruby and felt that she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She said she wasn’t handling the negativity given her children in the comments by the trolls. I have followed Lauren Mathias, who is awesome. I know Mindy’s aunt who is my high school classmate. Another classmate is an Uncle to Julie’s husband, the Deru’s. It’s a small world.
What particularly shocked me about Ruby's way of raising children was the stark consistency with a parenting guide from 1936 in Germany Johanna Haarer: "Die deutsche Mutter und ihr erstes Kind"The german mother and her first child. The aim of this book was to educate children to become obedient and strong citizens of Nazi Germany, that is, Hitler’s soldiers and mothers who were keen to give birth to as many babies as possible. I know this is an uncomfortable thesis, but I see similarities of a totalitarian inhumane system to these religious requirements. Personal feelings were not welcome, only the big, fantastic whole mattered. By the way, Johanna Haarer`s book was officially available for purchase until 1986, how creepy. In the meantime, several studies have proven that J. Haarer was an extremely narcissistic mother, brutal and without any connection to her children. One reason: "Leave the child alone for 24 hours after birth so that no monkey-like dependency develops". I love to listen your podcast, greetings from Germany
Excellent episode! The whole time I was reading Shari Franke's book I kept thinking: I hope John reads this and I hope he talks about it! Same with Lauren! Great minds are thinking alike.
After hearing Adam's story, when all the Ruby stuff happened and Kevin was attacked in the media I saw Kevin with an entirely different set of eyes figuring what happened to Adam would happen to him if he didn't follow the "rules". I felt bad for Kevin so was happy to hear this validated. Reading the book so loved this. Thank you all.🙂
The conversation ending at 2:13:00 adds to this. It seems there was a pattern with these couples that makes Kevin’s place in the story and complicity much more complicated.
He really just needed to grow a pair and stand up for his children, which he never did. He had legal ways to help this children but didn’t bother. So I personally don’t think he gets any sympathy.
So many of the things mentioned remind me of my mother too. I think it is high demand religions in general. My mom was raised Catholic, the oldest of 7. She left it but always had the attitude of appearance ingrained in her. When we lived near DC, they didn't go to any church because it wasn't the "in-thing" in that area but became serious church-goers when we moved to Alabama. It seemed much more about appearance than anything else.
Honestly, regarding the journal discussion, I was shocked that Ruby never read Shari's journal to throw a fit about it. Or at least Shari does not mention it. Knowing these types, I was almost certaint there was a section about this coming up (but wasn't) as Ruby was big on kids not having the right to privacy. Edit: on a lighter note, thanks for this, I love the long format whenever I have a pile of ironing in front of me, you guys carry me right through it ❤
This program was very insightful due to Shari Franke's first hand account in her book. I was introduced to 8 passenger via Bonnie Hollein . I remember there were times especially with her youngest daughter that I felt Ruby was extremely mean but after Shari's book,I realized it had gone on for years with other children too. Thank you thank your guests and their sharing. I will be subscribing to this podcast.
This dialogue was so interesting! I was raised in a high demand religion (Catholic). My poor mother had 3 babies 15 months apart. She was college educated and was working when she met my father (Baptist). So she was in her mid-twenties when she had my sisters. She was hospitalized with depression (did having those babies so close together have an impact on her mental health??). I came along 5 years later, and she was once again hospitalized with depression. Being a good Catholic one did not use birth control....... My dad went in and had a vasectomy at this point....Sigh.... the expectations of religion has caused so much trauma to people, unfortunately.
Hi, Johanna, Today there might be more recognition of hormonal imbalances that can take place after childbirth. Your father's solution was often chosen by Catholic husband's. I am Catholic and limited knowledge of LDS through some family mothers. There is no common ground between LDS and any other belief system. The Catholic and Baptist faith and family systems are well-known. Especially Catholic. It is balanced. Anyone can investigate its educational system.The LDS system seems secretive and very difficult to understand. It has its own unique theology, beliefs, version of the Bible, and teachings about marriage. It really is not similar to Catholic family life nor to Protestant family life.
1:09 That is not a decision a child should make. The parent should be reflecting regularly on am I being a good parent? Am I listening to my child’s feelings and needs. Am I being manipulative to make a good show? How is this activity affecting my child’s development…. Just like a parent would do with any activity or weigh the effect of any choice upon their children.
I have so many comments on this book, it healed me in ways I didn’t know I needed, I thank Shari for sharing her story, I recognize so much of my childhood and myself in this. That being said I feel as though the church originally denounced therapy because mental heath specialists recognize the control the church has over its members. And then they now have their own mental heath specialists to council their members and magically it’s okay and important.
I appreciate Megan discussing childhood emotional neglect. The absence of emotional validation in childhood is so harmful and lasting, and many victims have no idea this is why they are struggling, even as adults.
And emotional neglect and abuse is not illegal, which is a huge problem since it can sometimes be even as damaging more damaging.
Kinda hard to follow if you haven’t read the book
I’m so confused why Kevin gets a pass for his pre-Jody parenting choices. On the channel, he is clearly complicit & enabling the harm Ruby is doing. I don’t blame him to the same extent as Ruby especially once Jody got in the picture. But it’s interesting in seeing how the internet responds to him vs someone like Jen Soto. Is it because we subconsciously don’t give fathers the same agency in parenting as mothers, seeing mothers as the default primary parent? Idk but it’s interesting to think about
I blame Kevin equally. He abandoned his children. He said he hadn't seen them in over a yr I think. That's not a father. That's a whipped dog. As a father I could never let that happen no matter the reason or consequence
Agreed. Jodi hurt countless families, and her tactics were particularly unforgiving towards the men- HOWEVER, Kevin doesn’t deserve to ride the coat-tails of heroes like Adam Steed. Kevin was happy to go along with Ruby’s cold blooded parenting tactics WELL BEFORE Jodi entered their lives.
Yes!! It angers me to no end that he is painted like the "good guy" in this evil mess 😡! Firstly his absence alone is a huge failure as a father to protect his children ...he hadn't seen them in over a year at the time of the arrest.
It sounds like he knew things were spiriting out of control and
Could see that the fake live in t"therapist " had her claws fully sunk in and he simply nope'd out and left his children to face the emotional turmoil that he himself couldn't hack 🤯.! I don't care if people say "they wouldn't let him see the kids" ...well he had an entire year to go to court and fight for his children if he was so protective ..but he did NOTHING ! Even if he was unaware of Just how bad the abuse had got ..it's his fault because he didn't even visits his children ...if he was so scared of the Witches why not go to the authorities to protect your dam kids!!
Even "if" he truly had no idea about the horrific stuff going down in that house ....WHY ...did he call her up after she was arrested and the kids horrendous injuries/treatment were exposed and tell her that he's on her side and loves her spa much 🤢
I feel exactly the same way
thank you! its so wild to me how kevin could be so deep in a strongly patriarchal religion that has SO much to say about men being "the head of the household" and then just stand by and let his wife continue to publicly exploit his kids???? it's like kevin wtf were you doing??
I listened to the entire audio book in a day. Couldn't stop listening... Shari is the narrator and hearing her tell her story was heart wrenching and captivating.
Same !
I'm starting a second listen!
Same
Seeing how Kevin “folded” to Jodi’s pressure it made me want to applaud Adam Paul Steed all the more! 👏👏👏
He recognized the manipulation & tried to fight it & Jodi. He deserves a medal of honor!
Absolutely!
Agreed..
@@jathompson37 well said .... Justice for Adam Paul Steed and children and present family!
Yes 👏👏👏
He didn’t notice it right away though. People fall victim to cults all the time. You guys expect Kevin to be so high and mighty that he’s above everything.,
I reiterate what Megen said. I didn’t realize how impactful this book would be. No, I’ve never been Mormon. No my family didn’t plaster me all over TH-cam growing up. No, my mom didn’t join a cult or harm my younger siblings the way hers did. However, this is also a coming of age story. It’s also a girls story. It’s also a dysfunctional family story. It’s a religious trauma story. It’s a mental health story. It’s a seeking help story…. There are so many ways I connect to this book and I cried at so many moments reading it. This book is important!
Like Tim Ballard does to his own kids, and involves them in his crimes *allegedly
I want to praise all of you for the kindness and empathy you brought to the discussion of this book. I also appreciate that the one man in the group left space for the women to discuss their difficult experiences within the church. You all seem like genuinely kind people.
Couldn’t have said it better. Exactly how I felt after watching it.
You all really are some of the best podcasters and when you’re all together, you’re on fire. Just fabulous, all of you. Thank you for not only this episode, but all the hard work you all do individually too
Ditto. I agree!
Add Donald Trump same
This is one of the BEST podcasts I have ever watched. Thank you MSP. Well done.
I had to drive almost 4 hrs today. I so enjoyed this podcast. (I finished it at my destination). Wow, what a book by Shari. I cried a lot for her.
All of you are awesome. Thank you!
Someone said that sharis story of sa did not really connect to rubi but i would debate that. She was groomed to shut down and not be a voice or a person and push her feelings away from herself and her fisrt thought is not "what the h do you think you are doing! Get off me! " It was "oh nono onono not this!" Defeated by shame and groomed to not be rude or offended when showered w inappropriate gifts. Starved for attention. before her predator even made a move, she had been carefully groomed by her mother and the church. Another horrible experience she will have to heal herself . 😢
Absolutely, and how are you supposed to learn to stand up for your autonomy when it's beaten out of you from the very start.
It also adds to the understanding of generational trauma. Having a hard childhood doesn’t prepare you better for adult life, it weakens you, makes you susceptible to worse stuff
@@TheMouse-gc9ft my hope is for healing among the siblings. It has seemed to me like the youngest two got the brunt of Ruby’s physical behavior, but the two middle girls were taught to trust “no one “ no even their siblings. I also wonder if Shari ever encountered Pam Borchardt, cause she does seem to have a hand in this, even if not to the extent as the youngest.
Some of you haven’t been in an abusive relationship. It appears kevin was in a mentally a suite relationship. (Men can also be abused) just because she was a woman doesn’t mean she couldn’t a suite him and reduce him to nothing.
Yup! Not sure if you read the book but she covered that. She pointed out how she learned to “fawn” because of how Ruby retreated her and in the situation with Derek she was “fawning.”
There is something so right about these long format livestreams on Mormon Stories. Thank you for your vulnerability to the panel. Megan even looks gorgeous while in tears. Shari Franke is to be commended for all of her work. If there is a child in the thumb nail, please do not click!
Yes I’m a never Mormon and so appreciate these long format interviews, oh and getting to know…women. And of course men, couples. Never thought this would be one of my most viewed channels.
I’m never Mormon and I wanted to say that authoritative parenting is not only an LDS method of parenting. I was a child in the’60’s and my parents and others parented the same way. Let the baby cry itself to sleep was a common practice. I remember when my parents were babysitting their first grandchild. I was about 8 when my nephew cried so much, I was in bed crying for the baby. That emotion stuck with me all these years. I don’t blame parents though, because they were doing the best they knew. Many followed Dr. Spock’s book on raising children.
I was interested in this story and this came up on my algorithm, and so am new to the channel. I appreciate so much how the male moderator gives so much room for the women to talk and asks great questions of them!
I recommend the whole coverage of the whole story
This channel is amazing for truly sincere and heartfelt discussions. I'm not LDS but this deconstruction of the religion is endlessly fascinating as there are SO many Mormon Stories. 💫
@@TrueCrimeDoulatotally agree. I am a never Mo but this channel helped me deconstruct my evangelical upbringing.
Dr John is amazing at giving women space and empathy to express themselves. It’s why I’ve been a long time subscriber
I'm not convinced Ruby Franke ever did want kids. I know that sounds crazy, but Ruby seems to me like she gets ahold of an idea and sort of unquestionably follows it like instructions that will work for everyone, so when her family and her church told her "your fate is marriage and motherhood, that is the only place where you will find success. " I don't think it crossed her mind that she might not _like_ dealing w kids, and I think she struggled to empathize with Sheri or be patient with her (to put it mildly), as though mothering was not like what she thought it would be like.
I think Ruby saw motherhood as her only means of controlling others within her patriarchal religious structure. She wanted kids because those kids would be the people that she knew she could control completely which is what she craved most.
@@amyk6319 100 % This
@@amyk6319 this is true and was the case in my family, where my mother knew she wanted 12 children, asked my dad before they married if he was up for it, he said yes and so they did. Only, my mom then controlled everything (including him, as much as he went along with what she demanded). I believe this happens in many Mormon families, with mom ‘needing’ someplace to feel in control, ‘on top’ of it all, though I don’t feel that this is consciously understood, admitted or realized by the women who are in, and perhaps feel forced into, this role.
@@amyk6319 I agree 100%
to take it further, i think she resented motherhood and her treatment of her last two kids demonstrates how her resentment manifested. ruby was brainwashed into believing her only worth is in having children and being a stay-at-home mom, but it's not what she truly wanted and she took it out on her kids for sure
Great panel!!! So enjoyed this talk and very proud of Sheri. What a remarkable young woman.
Love Mindy, Megan, and Lauren. I appreciate their thoughtful conversation about this book.
Plus, our John... wise, compassionate, knowledgeable, caring, dedicated. Bless you, Dear John.
Yesterday I was thinking to myself - I wonder when John will release an episode on Shari’s book! You never disappoint and you brought in the A team!!!
What an amazing group, thank you for this discussion. You all took this on with so much respect and kindness. Protecting Shari, and each other’s differences with love. Thank you 😊
I learned the hard way that when I began to take responsibility for my actions and get myself straightened out, my children’s behavior also improved. Focusing on “fixing” our children is often a way we ignore our own problematic behavior. 1:55
OK you got me. At an hour and a half in I sample read the first 6 chapters and have now downloaded the audiobook. I'll come back to the video after I finish the book. It is so wonderful that despite her experiences Shari is a kind, funny and expressive person who stands up for justice and human rights.
Just came back wanted to say.. WOW Megan today must have been a whirlwind (emotionally etc) and you are holding it DOWN! I am always so happy when I get the opportunity to hear you speak..your comfort in your own skin, vulnerability and compassion always shine through ❤️🩹💛
Thank you so much!
I’m so impressed by the emotional maturity and perspective of Shari. Just a note to the inner child of Shari: you don’t have to do or be anything different to please anyone anytime; you’re fine as is.
I was never at the level of Ruby Franke and gave nurture and love to my babies and kids but I felt a bit of guilt and shame listening to this and how some of the LDS doctrines affected my parenting. We were taught to an extent that our kids behavior was on us and it was our job to save them and make sure they were faithful and obedient. This was good parenting. We weren’t taught that kids are independent humans and how to respect their choices on different levels. It did open a convo with my adult kids. I apologized for how my expectations affected them and grace was given for the things we as parents were taught and indoctrinated with.
This was amazing. Thank you so much for the in-depth discussion.
Thank you, John, for having Lauren, Megan, and Mindy on your show. It was so informative 😊
Omg?! The video quality is CRISP! Idk what yall changed but keep it up! Looks great!
Beautifully done. Thank you all for being vulnerable and sharing your experience.
Love this quartet! Thank you for the deep dive! And this book sounds amazing! A really insightful telling of her own story! I'm very impressed with Shari!
Just started watching American Primeval yesterday, couldn’t keep my eyes off of it and realized my high school teacher taught me about this specific time in history. My history teacher was an ex Mormon in Colorado. It was the apart of the beginning of my deconstruction in the church. He knew exactly what he was doing.
I am here because of Lauren, the host is/was correct, she is wonderful and amazing. I learned a lot so far. I am just 45 minutes in and hope to catch up more later. I just ordered the book and hope to read it in the next few weeks. TY great presentation so far. I will like and subscribe.
I didn’t realize how long this episode was until I was 2 hours in! I could have watched even longer! Great commentary. I appreciated the vulnerability that was shared by the panel. Shari is a truly remarkable woman. She is so young to already have this much awareness of the problems of her upbringing. I wish her nothing but the best in her future.
SO COOL to see the Band together!! Watching on replay. ❤
In Germany they have law against parents showning children on the net! We in Sweden are working to copy that. Here its not ok for any school daycarecenter, any concept that involves children
I grew up in a family deeply embedded in the belief system that underpins waldorf education (anthroposophy). I've known for decades it's extremely toxic and has cult-like overlaps, but it still shocks me how much the culture of emotional/psychological abuse and neglect described in mormonism is utterly familiar to me.
The description of SA, the cruelty of shari's parents manipulating her into paying for the meal where she'd hoped to find support, the groundwork laid by her narcissistic family culture that left her a prime target for a groomer and sexual predator - it's all stuff that's so familiar i feel momentarily unable to do anything but collapse and sleep.
Poor, poor kid. It's heartbreaking
This was a fabulous episode. Great job to you all!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is so important to talk about and discuss. I hope Shari's experience and emotions will be listened to and will reach parents who are brrought up to parent the same way❤
3:38:22 Can I get that on a t-shirt?
This was such an excellent roundtable. Thanks to everyone at MS for putting this together, and thanks to Lauren, Megan & Mindy for traveling & presenting on such short notice. I so appreciate the sharing of your personal experiences. Your opinions are valuable & important to me.
The conversations had in this episode are vital & need to be had publicly & repeatedly. My hope is that doing so will pierce the bubble. Mormon children deserve so much better, as does everyone else.
Shari’s book is the 1st first purchase on my new Audible subscription.
Legit question, since I’m not immersed in this world: How many of these family bloggers preach (pun intended) about _not_ letting children be exposed to social media _while putting their children on social media?_ I feel like the Venn diagram of pearl clutching about children’s internet access and making money off of family vlogging is a circle.
In a very small part i also see myself in Shari. The fawning as a response to the trauma of a dysfunctional family is something I'm trying to unlearn. I admire her strenght for sharing her story and i wish her and her siblings all the best for their future!
Tuning in from South Africa 🇿🇦 at breakfast time on the 11th. Looking forward to this read-party! 💜🤗
Extraordinary. Cannot believe I listened to the end. I’m glad I did. Meegan at the end really helped me understand narcism and how it develops. I spent 20 years in high demand religion led by my partner and I wondered how it seems his narcissism seemed to get worse. I wasn’t sure when and where it started and how blind was I from the beginning.
This is like the Mormon Stories Avengers reuniting again.
Great podcast 👏👏👏 After reading the book, I would love you to talk more about Pam please. She’s as bad as Ruby and Jodie. I also would like a more in-depth discussion about the in-laws on each side of the family. And the Haymonds, only for them god knows what may have happened to Shari, they gave her the strength to fight and their support is outstanding.
If you’re reading this Shari, you are a wonderful young girl, you saved your siblings and one day you’ll be known for the good you’ve brought to this world and the changes you’ve brought to into law to keep children safer ❤🇮🇪
What a great panel. Thank you all.
What a great group of smart people and glad you’re covering this book. I put this in my audio book queue (read by author) yesterday. This channel’s in depth coverage of the Franke/Hildebrandt case (through long form, thoughtful interviews) is so helpful.
So heartbreaking what happened to Shari re D. I was not expecting that. First I’m glad there’s more understanding of the freeze response now. This a valid and not uncommon response. Megan, you mention how women blame themselves. I recently saw a doc re adult men s/a’d by a certain celebrity years ago. Tough guys. 30s. Ex military in some cases. That was part of the “thrill” for the s/a-er it seems. They routinely thought “what did I do to cause this” and felt shame. Amazing. Why do women and men have that bio-response? And then I think of very young people trying to work through this…
This was a hard episode to watch, but you were all spot on with your critique of life inside the Mormon bubble. I just want more people to understand what it is like to be raised in a Mormon family.
This was a wonderful episode. Thank you so much for sharing so vulnerably. I wish I knew at 20 what I know now at 61 years old, but it never too late to learn to trust your instincts and love yourself. It is great that Shari shared her journey with us.
So so good to see the group back together again 💓
I got it on audible and couldn't stop listening till it was over. It is awesome.She did such a good job
Thank you all! Thank you, Shari!!! Praying for all of you🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Love this panel! Thanks for the content!
The best panel! Thanks ladies and John! ❤❤❤❤
Does Shari address her relationship with Kevin in this book? He was so NASTY to her after Ruby got arrested. He tried to get Shari arrested for going with CPS to the house to pick up clothing and belongings for the little kids she was granted temporary custody of. She was graciously putting her own life on hold to raise Kevin and Ruby's children, and Kevin wanted Shari in jail. ANY sympathy I may have had for Kevin (and he really deserves none) was gone just from how he treated Shari. 😮
Kevin has no empathy, which is revealed by his porn use. He is a pervert and a creep. People should not give him a free pass.
Yes. She addresses this in the book.
@mormonstories Thank you for the reply. I am only 1/3 of the way through your program so far.
It is more about money for them rather than doing it as a missionary tool for the church. Greed.
Thank goodness for this video. Here I was trying to process this book all on my own.
I didn’t know this book was written! So, I’ve just bought and read/listened to it. This is amazing. Now to watch with no spoilers.
I’m so looking forward to this episode so many of my absolute FAVS ! ❤❤❤ Re Watch crew 🎉
Ruby actually had a steady boyfriend from age 15 until she finished high school. She made a video when Shari turned 16 talking about how proud she was she was doing things differently then she had as she had spent the evening of her own 16th birthday driving around with her steady boyfriend and kissing him. I’m a reformed shameful past viewer of 8 passengers. I grew up in an unstable home and the image the channel put off appealed to 18yo me and since my own mum was catholic and had a relatively strict parenting style, at least up until my mid teens anyway, so ruby’s style didn’t seem too out of the realm to me. Sure she was more strict than my own mum, but not by an unimaginable amount. By the end of my early 20’s I was having a very different view on the channel and stopped watching early 2020.
Thank you for sharing ❤️
This is amazing. Thank you all for an extraordinary podcast.
this was beautiful, respectful, and powerful. thank you for sharing. 🩷
I just love the work the four of you do on behalf of humanity. You model the tenderness and empathy that we all need ALL the time. Thank you for covering the difficult topics with so much heart. The band needs to do more epic book book studies! Looking forward to the next one (hint, hint)!
I love every one of these women - they are all inspirations! Let me just add that the last time y'all got together I almost cracked a rib laughing with John, who couldn't stop chuckling at one of Jody's videos (the word "hard" was mentioned many times). I will buy Shari's book after listening to today's discussion. I was so horrified by her account of SA and how she was treated by the church afterwards. I mean, I grew up in the church and already know how this sort of story goes, but hearing Shari's own story was so haunting and made me sick to my stomach. Someone expose the perpetrator, please. Justice for Shari!
This was class! Loved every minute ❤
Accolades to Shari for her courage, strength, wisdom and authenticity. All the caregivers and adults in her life failed her. Seemingly by her BYU affiliation, she has not yet realized the LDS faith has also failed her. Shari has a bright and promising future.
Great session, Team. Thank you!🙏
After reading this book I am even more convinced that Ruby is an incredibly angry, belligerent woman who never liked being a parent and took it out on her children. I can’t imagine parenting the way Ruby did. I feel for Shari and her siblings the layers of trauma and betrayal they must have experienced in that family must be immense.
All of these women are so spot on and impressive. Excellent discussion
This was so good! You guys are true marathoners. The book is in my queue!
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔
So much similarity to my life under the Plymouth Brethren / Cslvsnist / Bob Jones / Bill Gothard / Dianetics etc dynamics that my father and stepmother were immersed in.
The 'Everything is good in public' rings loudly.
"Your Spirit just needs to be broken" was the 'go to' dictum.
When I was finally sent to secular counseling and it was suggested that my issues were understood to be linked to a dysfunctional family dynamic needing to be addressed.
The thought that my parents needed to be included in counseling, too, was dismissed, and that was that.
I was sent to BJA for handling.
So much to unpack here. Thank you so much.
Need to get the audio book if and when it is available.
Ooh great panel! I am looking forward to this one!
Love these women! Great work by all!!
The "dream team" panel!! Excellent show.
Kevin should also be held accountable 🤷🏻♀️
He should be in prison for neglect and abuse as well. Just my opinion.
There is so much to be learned from this book. I can't even imagine the level of courage it took to release it. I personally am apart of an organization that are online decoys that pose as underage kids and online preds reach out to us. Long story short, we always involve police. Shari describing her interactions with that man happens more often than people realize. As a decoy, we get told those same things on a daily basis. All in hopes that in these predator's minds, they can gain more and more control. It's crazy to me still how these people can find those who are lost in life almost like a heat seeking missle. I have to give her huge props for sharing such an awful time in her life and I hope that it helps people see the different signs of abuse. I'm excited to see what her future holds.
Awesome panel. Absolutely loved it. Shari(edit) is an amazing strong women. I hope her and her family get to heal and I will definitely be buying the book.
Great commentary. Mindy with her encyclopedic knowledge of the book on such short notice and page references was impressive
Can't wait to listen, excellent group of humans ❤❤❤
Very enlightening conversation. Loved her book. So well-written. And I loved the final chapter on narcissism.
Glad to see the band back together 🫶🏼
I miss Geraldo [sp?]. He is part of the gang.
Such a harrowing story, I commend Shari's bravery and will be getting the book
Amazing discussion! Thank you! Also, I wish Daniella Mestyanek Young had been a part of this conversation too.
Scientific studies show that when someone is filming they are detached from what is going on in front of the lens. It applies to cameras recording crimes in process without stepping in to help a victim.
I watched 8 Passengers, E&J, Bonnie, and Jennifer (Chad) Griffith vlogs, as well as followed them on Instagram. After Ruby was arrested, I began to reflect on the similar underlying tone of Bonnie & their mother's vlogs. It made me feel like Ruby's upbringing mirrored her own childrearing. Ruby's style of discipline (abuse) was learned, she experienced what she inflicted on her kids. Bonnie's own vlogs also touched on the, "spoil the rod" approach to discipline. Although since Ruby's incarceration Bonnie has rolled back on that what she showed on her vlog. I often felt like Bonnie's eldest child, Olivia would similarly have her own realization as her cousin Shari. I truly hope that the Griffith, Mecham, Hollein, and Deru (Shari's maternal family) will read the book with an open mind, and heart. As I say this the only one I feel that will be genuine will be her aunt Julie, only bc right b4 the Deru's moved the were very present in Shari's life as a safe landing spot during her chaos.
I’m the same as you in following all the family. I met them all at a meet up. The only one I didn’t care for was Jared’s father. I even talked to Ruby and felt that she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She said she wasn’t handling the negativity given her children in the comments by the trolls.
I have followed Lauren Mathias, who is awesome. I know Mindy’s aunt who is my high school classmate. Another classmate is an Uncle to Julie’s husband, the Deru’s. It’s a small world.
I love listening to you girls (I'm 64), you are so reflective and emotional.
What particularly shocked me about Ruby's way of raising children was the stark consistency with a parenting guide from 1936 in Germany Johanna Haarer: "Die deutsche Mutter und ihr erstes Kind"The german mother and her first child. The aim of this book was to educate children to become obedient and strong citizens of Nazi Germany, that is, Hitler’s soldiers and mothers who were keen to give birth to as many babies as possible. I know this is an uncomfortable thesis, but I see similarities of a totalitarian inhumane system to these religious requirements. Personal feelings were not welcome, only the big, fantastic whole mattered. By the way, Johanna Haarer`s book was officially available for purchase until 1986, how creepy. In the meantime, several studies have proven that J. Haarer was an extremely narcissistic mother, brutal and without any connection to her children. One reason: "Leave the child alone for 24 hours after birth so that no monkey-like dependency develops".
I love to listen your podcast, greetings from Germany
I love that Lauren is honest about regretting not having kids earlier. I do too.
Excellent episode! The whole time I was reading Shari Franke's book I kept thinking: I hope John reads this and I hope he talks about it! Same with Lauren! Great minds are thinking alike.
I was waiting for you to cover Shari's book! Thank you for this great discussion!
After hearing Adam's story, when all the Ruby stuff happened and Kevin was attacked in the media I saw Kevin with an entirely different set of eyes figuring what happened to Adam would happen to him if he didn't follow the "rules". I felt bad for Kevin so was happy to hear this validated.
Reading the book so loved this. Thank you all.🙂
The conversation ending at 2:13:00 adds to this. It seems there was a pattern with these couples that makes Kevin’s place in the story and complicity much more complicated.
He really just needed to grow a pair and stand up for his children, which he never did. He had legal ways to help this children but didn’t bother. So I personally don’t think he gets any sympathy.
I love this so much. Sheri is eloquent for someone so young.
So many of the things mentioned remind me of my mother too. I think it is high demand religions in general. My mom was raised Catholic, the oldest of 7. She left it but always had the attitude of appearance ingrained in her. When we lived near DC, they didn't go to any church because it wasn't the "in-thing" in that area but became serious church-goers when we moved to Alabama. It seemed much more about appearance than anything else.
Honestly, regarding the journal discussion, I was shocked that Ruby never read Shari's journal to throw a fit about it. Or at least Shari does not mention it. Knowing these types, I was almost certaint there was a section about this coming up (but wasn't) as Ruby was big on kids not having the right to privacy.
Edit: on a lighter note, thanks for this, I love the long format whenever I have a pile of ironing in front of me, you guys carry me right through it ❤
This program was very insightful due to Shari Franke's first hand account in her book.
I was introduced to 8 passenger via Bonnie Hollein . I remember there were times especially with her youngest daughter that I felt Ruby was extremely mean but after Shari's book,I realized it had gone on for years with other children too.
Thank you thank your guests and their sharing.
I will be subscribing to this podcast.
Catholics: Flogging
Mormons: Vlogging
I just finished it today and I purchased it the day before yesterday!
This dialogue was so interesting! I was raised in a high demand religion (Catholic). My poor mother had 3 babies 15 months apart. She was college educated and was working when she met my father (Baptist). So she was in her mid-twenties when she had my sisters. She was hospitalized with depression (did having those babies so close together have an impact on her mental health??). I came along 5 years later, and she was once again hospitalized with depression. Being a good Catholic one did not use birth control....... My dad went in and had a vasectomy at this point....Sigh.... the expectations of religion has caused so much trauma to people, unfortunately.
Hi, Johanna, Today there might be more recognition of hormonal imbalances that can take place after childbirth. Your father's solution was often chosen by Catholic husband's. I am Catholic and limited knowledge of LDS through some family mothers. There is no common ground between LDS and any other belief system. The Catholic and Baptist faith and family systems are well-known. Especially Catholic. It is balanced. Anyone can investigate its educational system.The LDS system seems secretive and very difficult to understand. It has its own unique theology, beliefs, version of the Bible, and teachings about marriage. It really is not similar to Catholic family life nor to Protestant family life.
I was so hoping you would cover this!!! I’m listening to it on audiobook right now 🩷
Love this episode, super real guests, 💐for Shari.
33:09 I can’t imagine having more than my two kids. I miss my alone time with my oldest so much.
1:09 That is not a decision a child should make. The parent should be reflecting regularly on am I being a good parent? Am I listening to my child’s feelings and needs. Am I being manipulative to make a good show? How is this activity affecting my child’s development…. Just like a parent would do with any activity or weigh the effect of any choice upon their children.
I have so many comments on this book, it healed me in ways I didn’t know I needed, I thank Shari for sharing her story, I recognize so much of my childhood and myself in this. That being said I feel as though the church originally denounced therapy because mental heath specialists recognize the control the church has over its members. And then they now have their own mental heath specialists to council their members and magically it’s okay and important.