I remember when I was racing when Tomba was around. My coaches always said to watch the women because they had the best form. That was back in the straight skis days. Tomba would just sit on the tails. Late is great. We had guys that could do that. Then shaped skis came out and changed everything.
What is the middle way ? A combination of all ideas mentioned here - some leg turning, retraction, extension some foot tipping within the confines of a hard boot, for/aft movement, shin pressure - we see what we want to see :-)
I am not sure what you are indicating? I would certainly not agree with "we see what we want to see"... At least for my self. I have spent the last 25 + years studying, asking questions and working with some of the best athletes, coaches and instructors to understand what movements result in effective high-performance skiing. I show what I have learned and what needs to be shared.
There are many things going on here and leg turning is the least influential of them. Can you describe or point out the movements that are actually making this skiing happen????
For my untrained eye: Active upper leg twisting isn't involved here to tip the knees. Its done by tipping the feet. One question: Why should a racer use leg twisting at all if it has a negative balance impact and twisting upper legs are relatively slow compared to tipping the feet??? I am not used to movement analize videos, but somehow the skiing doesn't look "clean" to me... Maybe you could help me out here: Somehow the legs don't look parallel aligned and the stance width seems a bit to wide. My reference is the turn at 0:24. It seems like the skier has too much weight on the inside ski while the outside edge is still engaged and for that has to step of the outside ski. Because of the wider stance its more difficult to shift balance from outside to inside ski!? Am i total off or is there some valid point in my observation? It would be nice, if you could provide some details, that i can learn what goes wrong in this situation or if some of my noticed aspects are wrong! King regards p.s. I am an amateur recreational skier that wants to understand the technical aspects that results in high quality skiing.
Mikecreativision - I am not sure where you have gotten the idea: "leg twisting at all if it has a negative balance impact" . The reality is that a ski racer cannot keep his upper body (pelvis-shoulders) in the direction of travel and not turn the legs. Its impossible. The feet are actively tipping (see my other videos on feet) and are a critical aspect of making the leg movement effective. But it is not enough. the hips moving over the feet and to the inside of the turn is also involved in the edge change. Each video covers a single aspect of idea. they are not stand alone items. Please understand that my videos are intended for athletes, coaches, and instructors I train. They are to proved visuals to the drills and concepts we do on the hill. They are by no means a stand alone educational tool. I hope you understand. Thanks
from my point oh view, about your reference turn at 0:24: his stance gets really wide open at the end of the turn, because his outside ski is fully extended, weight-charged from the fall-line to the end of the turn, while it should actually be absorving those inercial forces that the skier recieves from the ground at that point.. If you have to much weight on the outside ski at the end of the curve, it will eventually slip (get off-edge)...if you look closely, that is what happends with that outside ski. The inside ski is actually correct...its on the edges and clean contact with the ground all the time, and so should have been the outside if the skier would have released the pressure gradually from the fall-line until the inflexion point, where the next turn begins.
Chicken or the egg? All the movements have to coordinate to guide the Cg where we want it to go. You can isolate different sensations for drill purposes like you would have the horn section practice their part and the percussion section practice theirs but for everything to flow all pieces must work in concert. It's all about managing the path of the Cg. down the hill isn't it?
I remember when I was racing when Tomba was around. My coaches always said to watch the women because they had the best form. That was back in the straight skis days. Tomba would just sit on the tails. Late is great. We had guys that could do that. Then shaped skis came out and changed everything.
What is the middle way ? A combination of all ideas mentioned here - some leg turning, retraction, extension some foot tipping within the confines of a hard boot, for/aft movement, shin pressure - we see what we want to see :-)
I am not sure what you are indicating? I would certainly not agree with "we see what we want to see"... At least for my self. I have spent the last 25 + years studying, asking questions and working with some of the best athletes, coaches and instructors to understand what movements result in effective high-performance skiing. I show what I have learned and what needs to be shared.
sean would I be right in noticing that he also lifts ,or least significantly unweights , his weighted ski in transition
There are many things going on here and leg turning is the least influential of them. Can you describe or point out the movements that are actually making this skiing happen????
For my untrained eye: Active upper leg twisting isn't involved here to tip the knees. Its done by tipping the feet. One question: Why should a racer use leg twisting at all if it has a negative balance impact and twisting upper legs are relatively slow compared to tipping the feet???
I am not used to movement analize videos, but somehow the skiing doesn't look "clean" to me... Maybe you could help me out here:
Somehow the legs don't look parallel aligned and the stance width seems a bit to wide. My reference is the turn at 0:24. It seems like the skier has too much weight on the inside ski while the outside edge is still engaged and for that has to step of the outside ski. Because of the wider stance its more difficult to shift balance from outside to inside ski!? Am i total off or is there some valid point in my observation?
It would be nice, if you could provide some details, that i can learn what goes wrong in this situation or if some of my noticed aspects are wrong!
King regards
p.s. I am an amateur recreational skier that wants to understand the technical aspects that results in high quality skiing.
mikecreativision Well done mike, I agree with your comments.
Mikecreativision - I am not sure where you have gotten the idea: "leg twisting at all if it has a negative balance impact" . The reality is that a ski racer cannot keep his upper body (pelvis-shoulders) in the direction of travel and not turn the legs. Its impossible. The feet are actively tipping (see my other videos on feet) and are a critical aspect of making the leg movement effective. But it is not enough. the hips moving over the feet and to the inside of the turn is also involved in the edge change. Each video covers a single aspect of idea. they are not stand alone items.
Please understand that my videos are intended for athletes, coaches, and instructors I train. They are to proved visuals to the drills and concepts we do on the hill. They are by no means a stand alone educational tool. I hope you understand. Thanks
from my point oh view, about your reference turn at 0:24: his stance gets really wide open at the end of the turn, because his outside ski is fully extended, weight-charged from the fall-line to the end of the turn, while it should actually be absorving those inercial forces that the skier recieves from the ground at that point.. If you have to much weight on the outside ski at the end of the curve, it will eventually slip (get off-edge)...if you look closely, that is what happends with that outside ski. The inside ski is actually correct...its on the edges and clean contact with the ground all the time, and so should have been the outside if the skier would have released the pressure gradually from the fall-line until the inflexion point, where the next turn begins.
Chicken or the egg? All the movements have to coordinate to guide the Cg where we want it to go. You can isolate different sensations for drill purposes like you would have the horn section practice their part and the percussion section practice theirs but for everything to flow all pieces must work in concert. It's all about managing the path of the Cg. down the hill isn't it?
turn turn turn
Thanks Jac!
"shows leg movements are the foundation to creating separation" This makes no sense and teaches nothing.