Hey it's finally out! I really appreciate if you would comment and give your thoughts as well as like, bc this obviously took a lot of work. Naoto is my favorite character personally in Persona 4 and I wanted to give a thorough look as I could without the Naoto segment overpowering the rest of things TOO disproportionately haha. I'm still nervous but I hope you enjoy. Naoto's unfortunate history of discussion and controversy probably has people with their heels already dug in on both sides, I just hope people can in the very least understand this is a much more complex topic than people treat it as. The amount of research I did honestly doesn't come across in the video. Anyways, the Adachi segment is next! I'm not sure if it will be done in time for next saturday, but it should atleast be ready by the saturday after next! Enjoy yourselves!
Thanks for the amount of research you do for these videos. Please take the time you need on the Adachi one, I find him such an interesting character and will be waiting for your analysis. Take care.
This was great man it gave me the understanding of the legendary detective heroes story I love her struggle and battles with society and herself and such a inspiration to future heroes
Great video. I don't know you personally but I think you are putting yourself too much in your work. You are more than just these videos or your channels. Even if they 'fail' by the standards of youtube doesn't mean you yourself have failed. You may want to step back a little after all this is done. Talk to people, look around a bit, look at your options. Don't beat yourself up too much just because you weren't favored by the algorithm.
I always liked how Naoto's shadow is designed, with it wearing an oversized labcoat to make it seem small and by extention makes it look like a child in adult clothes. Very good video!
I absolutely love Naoto and I think she is one of the most misunderstood in gaming. The work and effort you put into these videos is phenomenal and honestly I haven't been keeping up with them recently but I will make sure to watch every second of the full version when it drops.
My husband over heard me watching this and gave a neat detail i wanted to share. You mentioned that Naoto used a NEW Nambu gun, apparently the old ones, type 94 to be exact, had issues with accidental discharge. I wonder if Adachi had the old one and if thats what led to him accidentally shooting someone.
Thank you for actually clarifying the whole issue on her whole gender identity in the video. I honestly relate to her heavily and I've felt the idea that she is trans defeats the actual point that's trying to be made. I'm a gender non conforming woman myself, so it's genuinely very frustrating that people do not understand that interpreting her is trans is both ignoring cultural context and implying people need to confirm to societal expectations of what they are. Her character in general is what made me play the game in the first place, as I'd never seen a more accurate depiction of the feelings I'd experienced growing up. Very well researched video.
She’s a masculine men, not exactly a tomboy. But she has masculine traits while still being a woman. The fact people see a feminine man or a masculine woman and think they are trans is sad and really shows the society we live in
I don't think anyone is at fault in thinking that Naoto's storyline comes across as transphobic. The idea of "only wanting to change their sex to escape being subjected to the tyranny of being a woman in a male dominated work space" is a very common negative stigma that many transmen are subjected to. Considering that this a common view on transmen and Persona 4's main theme is accepting oneself and not running from the truth; it's easy to see that if someone were to depict this transphobic rhetoric in this medium, this is probably how it'd look. So even though Atlus is meaning to make meaningful commentary on workplace misogyny, it's incredibly likely that they may also have intended this to be a commentary on transgender men, as well; the fact that Atlus, in their very next game by this team of writers and developers, would make a pretty transphobic depiction of a transwoman (Erica from Catherine), in which her identity is also treated as lying to oneself and the people around her. No one's trying to erase your identity nor your struggles and it's great that Naoto's storyline helped you with your struggles but I don't believe that erases what may very well have been the author's intent when writing it.
@@jeannepixel4692 saying no one is trying to erase my struggles is a bit disingenuous. You personally cannot know that, and I'd argue that I've encountered it a lot, from both cis and trans people. It might be easy to assume Naoto's storyline is transphobic if you ignore the fact that in her story, people's issues with Naoto and subsequently her issues with herself stem from more than just her gender.
The fact that you used someone else's video of Naoto's reversal instead of your own is as wholesome as it is hilarious. You didn't have the heart to reject this girl for anything. I respect that lol
While I’m not surprised since it isn’t as big as a thing in the west compared to Japan I was sad to not see you talke the “tokusatsu” parts of her character. Her dungeon is less directed at detective comics but at Japanese children’s superhero shows even her persona and shadow themselves takes heavy inspiration from them. The dungeon is based on Kamen rider’s shocker based as evident by the amount of bird imagery and the concept of “body modification” which ties in to her persona Hikona, it’s large V shaped head crest and bug motif is a very obvious nod towards Japan’s most popular super hero. Yet it also shows how Naoto’s tendency to wall herself off because she’s different, Kamen rider is a hero known for his lonely rode fighting a secret society by his lonesome mirroring Naoto’s fight with the male dominated society of the police force. It’s also worthy to note that her persona also shows sign’s of sentai, the progenitor of the power ranger’s series. As here in Japan the cape is the symbol of a sentai theme while a scarf announces a rider showcasing that Naoto does want a team, a family, of her own. To be accepted for who she is in her own group of weirdoes. Her shadow however is based on Kikaider. A purely robotic, android hero. Kikaider is different from Rider in that Rider wears a mask to hide the truth of his difference to himself in a way to hide the pain. Kikaider doesn’t change at all, he is still a machine of justice wether he transforms or not which connects to her shadow’s want of turning the facade of being a male detective into a reality. Making the mask true. And here comes Sumeragi with two more references to Rider. First is the flowing blonde hair, which is a reference to how the first Kamen rider mask actually showed the actor’s hair poking in the back showcasing that the cyborg bug man was still human, translating itself to Naoto as underneath the her cold surface is a love able dork. The second is the twin silver lines down her body, Kamen rider in the later half of the season changes from a completely dark looking hero, outfit made of dark green and black the only highlights is the piercing red eyes and crimson scarf, to having light greens, silver gloves and twin silver lines across the body. During this point in the story, Rider wasn’t alone, he had people that understood him and supported him. People that not only cared for him but rode his path with him agaun mirroring Naoto’s journey accepting herself and creating her own group of friends.
Thank you! I will include this in the full video version once it comes out! I actually do mention this being a reference to tokusatsu briefly in my living world of inaba segment but not nearly as indepth as this. Thanks!
@@HidinginPrivate oh! I also forgot to mention that some children here in Japan, mostly those that love Kamen rider, used to stay out late at night so they could get kidnapped and turned into modified humans like Kamen rider lol. You can usually read these types of comments on older rider shows, I’m one of them lol. This makes the secret base and the genome project sound way, WAY more childish as it means it’s a childish interpretation of how surgery works and it’s lasting effects on people.
Naoto ultimately had 2 problems. First, accepting her femininity as part of who she is. But also accepting that liking "childish" things like Featherman etc. is fine, and she doesn't need to pretend to fit in. I like that her dungeon leaned far more into the second part, while her shadow dealt with the first.
Nearly every aspect of this video hurt me with the amount I related to it and then you stating at the end that you also related to nearly every aspect of her character is just a testament to the strength of the characters both in this game and the series as a whole I think. They are realistic in a way where you can really see bits of yourself and the people you know in them. They feel real.
There were several points in this video that I was tearing up. How much care you put into discussing and explaining Naoto shows the dedication and work you have put not only hear but in the rest of this series. Honestly, I never noticed the Algernon reference before, and you tying it in felt like a revelation. Thank you so much.
I have thoroughly enjoyed every part of this series, however I think this one is my favourite. Such a careful, nuanced, and well-researched look at such a contentious topic is worthy of applause. Plus, the analysis of the dungeon design brought up a lot of things I never would have noticed on my own and has made a dungeon I already loved shoot into the position of my favourite one now. Absolutely stellar video in a stellar series!
Thank you. This has been the part I have had to rewrite, and rewrite again and again and spent so much time trying to understand these concepts along modern, historical, cultural and language barriers. It sucks too as even with all the nuance I'm afraid people will have dug their heels in on this historically contentious topic and close their ears. It's unfortunate too since I don't really agree with either of the major perspectives. I'm sort of caught in between here, the worst place to be haha. I just hope people will listen in good faith
@@HidinginPrivate Yeah, I definitely think that, unfortunately, there are a bunch of people who will have taken one reading from their first playthrough and not let it go. Still, you have explained your perspective on the discussion in a very engaging way, so hopefully you're able to sway some people!
One thing I really relate to Naoto with is her struggles with her height. I’m a pretty short woman, with a face like a scared deer on top of that (as more than one person has described me). I have to do a lot to present myself as strong, emotionally and physically, but my size still gives me odd looks when lifting at the gym. On top of that, there’s the idea of “small = cute = child = okay to touch.” I don’t mean that in a harassment sort of way. People just think it’s okay to pull me into hugs or pat me or other things you would do to a child. In a lot of media, you see short people get infantilized a lot or treated like a complete joke. It’s pretty disheartening a lot of the time. It’s not the worst case of weird media tropes, but it is one that has messed with me in the past. Naoto coming to terms with her body and her maturity is an interesting perspective on this. At this point in her life, it’s pretty unlikely that she’ll get taller. She struggles allowing people to help her and with her interests in what society deems as childish. It’s something I relate to a lot. It’s a balance that I’ve been able to achieve, but only after I stopped caring about what other people thought of my harmless likes/dislikes. It’s a little aspect of Naoto’s character that just speaks to me.
I recently found out about this channel, i like Naoto's character and i think you did a very good job explaining Naoto's arc and struggles. I hope this series reach out to more people and learn more about this characters and world. Good job
Just gotta say you’ve completely changed my perception on some of the investigation team and all the characters in p4 in a good way of course so thanks the videos are amazing.
The Naoto gender discussion was the part of the video I was the most intrigued with going into the video because I wasn't entirely what conclusion you'd come to. The discussion around her gender identity has easily been one of the most annoying and toxic debates within the fanbase since it always felt to me that people were willingly ignoring the story in order to come to conclusion that Naoto is a trans character. You were able to provide an expert level analysis on that discussion and even threw in topics I hadn't even considered when it came to that debate. The part where you mention that she projects a male person not for her own sake but for the sake of others is I think one of the stronger arguments against the Naoto trans reading that I haven't seen anyone bring up. I think your mention of how people when talking about Naoto are unintentionally displaying Western chauvinism and jingoism really points out why the discussion can get as toxic as it gets. I think the Western fanbase subconsciously holds the idea that the Western world is the default and everyone should aspire to be like it, so whenever something from another culture displays thoughts or ideas that go against that grain we automatically dismiss it as something inherently bad. I see this a lot with Japanese media and it can pretty frustrating since people can come off across as racist even if that was never there intent. Persona 5 gets a lot of that criticism when it comes to its political philosophy where people would rather it go a more anarchic/revolutionary route rather then the path that game eventually took and then people dismiss it as "classic Japanese conservatism". This isn't to suggest that Persona 5, or even other Japanese titles, are above criticism, but I do think it is important to understand the culture it comes from and how the way they view certain topics could influence the work they create. Sorry if this came off as rambly. Keep up the good work! This has been some of the most in depth analysis on a decade old JRPG I've ever seen.
Great comment. I also grow tired of the cultural imperialism. Let other cultures decide how to handle these issues, it’s not up to us to “save them” from their “backwards” culture.
it's not even the conclusion that she was trans that bugged me; Headcanons are fine, as long as you acknowledge that that's all they are, but the insistence that it's fact, and calling anyone who disagrees a bigot, is infuriating. Certainly, some of the backlash against the headcanons was bigoted in nature, and there's even an argument to be made that the writing itself is at least somewhat transphobic ("Cultural differences" can only excuse so much, and it's not imperialism to want people to be respected), but that doesn't mean it's okay to brand everyone who supports the canon text as a bigot.
@@CABRALFAN27 The cultural imperialism is mainly from the perspective of prescribing a western reading of a character when that was never the author's original intention. I'm pretty sure that what Hiding in Private meant and I agree with that assessment. If she was written as a trans character and the narrative treated her poorly then I'd agree with that criticism, but because she wasn't written with that lense in mind I think the criticism is entirely unfounded as it's essentially criticising an aspect of the game that was never the real intention.
It's so cool how through these videos, not only can I get a better understanding of my favorite characters, but learn more about the Japanese culture and history, as well as gain a little better understanding of the people behind the game. It's super super cool! The amount of detail, both in her writing and your videos is truly impressive. Like, I usually have a very limited understanding of how the personas and the arcanas connect to the characters, outside of the persona designs and the names of their arcana, so it's really cool to see how much thought they put in all of this. All of this just makes me wanna play P4G all over again xd. Amazing job as always! Hope you're having a good day out there, cheers!
I'm glad to hear all of this! The pursuit of the truth, and of greater knowledge is the core theme of Persona 4, I hope to truly give as much context and as many answer as I can to justify covering a game with such a theme. Thanks for the nice words!
damn that algernon segment brought back memories. broke my heart when charlie was falling apart in the end a few years ago i did not understand why people thought naoto was trans. i thought that the game explained it well enough that she accepted herself as a woman. tho it never really bothered me. i figured they must have their own personal reasons for seeing her as trans and that wasnt really my business buuut then i found out i was trans masc and started relating to certain naoto moments and with some of her feelings with wanting to be male lol. these days i sometime read trans masc fics of her just for some euphoria, non-binary headcanons are cool too her fear of rejection is so relatable. i love her character so much. i cant wait to do her social link myself lol (the compass thing is so cute) i myself found the "i like it higher" line kinda uncomfy but you brought up some good points in that segment
The algernon part was actually the part I was most excited to share, bc I had never seen someone discuss it before and I feel like it adds so much important nuance to the dungeon and character. When I first played the game years back I didn't even register a trans interpretation, but being aware over the years of the community discussion beck and forths and me also coming to terms with my sexuality and gender identity (and still am somewhat) I can't help but see Naoto as atleast on a thematic level, a very positive message of empowerment for any queer people. When I have seen anyone talk about this prior it's always slanted to make the Devs look transphobic and as uncharitable as possible- excluding context and the like. On the other end there are genuinely plenty of people who angrily push back on the Naoto bit clearly coming from a transphobic place and also not understanding the nuance or acknowledging things like how they sort of like the presentation they've taken on after facing themselves. I wanted to provide a complete nuance, and try to find the truth. That's the game's theme afterall. I relate to Naoto heavy
This is my favorite segment of your series Hiding in Private 1. Naoto best girl in P4G. I've always liked Naoto because of her design and character but this makes me like her more. 2. Your delivery and editing. It's kind of a guarantee but I like listening to what you have to say. 3. The Analysis. I find it fascinating that there all of studies and social norms connect to Naotos own character. I find her distancing a clever nod since her persona is based on a distant god. Also I relate to Naoto on a lot of things and this video brought that out. I've been through similar this and felt I needed to put up a facade to fit in for others. Now that is not the case and thanks to this video I feel more confident in my own faith and in myself. I'm glad I made it to this video this has been well worth my time. Side Note: when I was originally typing this I accidentally posted it on a different video that wasn't this one. When I realized my mistake I deleted and begin writing this comment. I was slightly freaked out but after regaining my composure I started to write this comment.
Well I'm glad not only did you like the segment but that it came out to be your favorite. IT was a lot of work but I'm happy with how it came out and happy most people seem to see where I'm coming from and also relate to her character. THe algernon bit was my favorite to share.
Great work as always, so glad to have followed this project since the beginning. Sad to see that we're in the final leg of the journey, but grateful to have been a part of it.
Excellent video. I don't usually comment, but I wanted to say that your analysis videos have given me a new appreciation towards Persona 4. I played p4 for the first time this summer and while i enjoyed it, i didn't appreciate just how much nuances the games writing has until i saw your videos. Naoto was my favorite character from P4 and you really did her justice. cant wait for the Adachi analysis and the eventual complete P4 video. aside from that i hope you have a nice day.
Thanks, well I appreciate the comment. The adachi video is very fun and philosophically the most engaging for me. I'm excited for people to see it. This part was the most difficult to make for sure. Thanks for the support and for appreciating the work I'm trying to put in
You know what? Now that I think about it, Naoto and Kanji are polar opposites and in a way, very similar. Well, at least their struggles are. Both have to deal with wanting to be accepted for who they are, but have been constantly told no because it doesn't fit with their respective gender. So they both put up walls, or acts, to hide they're real selves. Of course, both went about it very differently.
That's true. In all honesty since p4 is about facing yourself, all of the cast's struggles deal with their identity, who they want to be and how they're perceived. It's part of why I love p4
I’ve watched a few of your P4 character analysis videos and I must commend you for all the work put in. I already loved the game but you’ve brought so many little details to my attention that I would have never known otherwise. The true P4 golden experience has included coming back to these videos after completing the game.
Amazing work as always, I find Naoto to be a much deeper character than what alot of people give her credit for on social media, like they never played the game or actualy thought critically about her character and development. keep up the great work Mr. Hiding
in my opinion, naoto is an extremely well written social commentary on sexism and misogyny in asian culture. and i’m really, *really* happy that you covered that as i’m asian (and nb) myself and i struggle with dealing that so much within my culture. i do believe that seeing her as a fully trans man is offensive because of that, as it disregards the struggles of afab people in a misogynistic society. i personally dealt with the same struggles that she did- not caring what i used to like and be seen as until i started to be around people and became aware of how it could cause people to look down on me. this is a personal headcanon of mine, but i’ve always seen naoto as neurodivergent in some way considering how she lacks emotional awareness, molds herself to match what others want of her, how much she fears rejection and how she’s so fixated on detectives and whatnot. anyway. awesome video, it made me really happy to see someone understand her as she’s really, really important to me. sorry for rambling so much, but i hope this conveys my feelings :)
>"i do believe that seeing her as a fully trans man is offensive because of that, as it disregards the struggles of afab people in a misogynistic society." But headcanoning Naoto as trans man would not erase that Naoto is AFAB? Naoto would still be very much looked down for being so if they were transmasc. Did you mean 'women' instead? Also I see the autistic headcanon for Naoto pop up every now and then. I wish it was a more popular headcanon.
I interpret Naoto in exactly the same way , which is pretty cool! See much of myself in her which is probably why (besides the Asian cultural context) . She seems very fixated, playing a role, and a little socially anxious besides anything related to her job. Not to say she isn't strong, or cool, or a very skilled detective. She just has a very limited and stereotypical view of what a brilliant detective looks and acts like, thanks to the influences around her. So, she molds herself to that expectation even though she dosen't seem to realise she's incredibly intelligent and competent and good at professional talk. She's already an ace detective, but she feels like she needs to play the more stereotypical image of one to get the respect of people around her. It's the product of a very restrictive and judgemental society, definitely. But I don't think interpreting her differently, say as a trans man, is offensive. She is initially uncomfortable with dressing more effeminate in the Culture Festival, after all. And even if you don't view her as a trans man but are viewing it through a modern lens, I can see how the constant fixation on her boobs and the scary operation shtick being a bit upsetting.
@@GudetamaSit It's such an underrated headcanon! Maybe it's because of the time period p4 came out in? Futaba is typically accepted as being autistic but I think there was much more awareness/understanding of that type of thing in 2016+ vs late 2000s when p4 came out. I can see Naoto maybe even having Aspergers. This is another thing I don't see talked about! The type of media she consumed and how she got so absorbed in it that she forgot reality! It's not uncommon for detectives that are brought in from the outside are treated pretty badly and tried to be chased out/ignored! It's happened a lot in real life! Naoto was so focused on following her detective stories that she totally shut her eyes from reality and how she would realistically be treated as an outside detective. I feel like the gender stuff gets too focused in on because while it certainly is part of her character, there are other aspects of her character/story that people tend to ignore. It's why I loved Hiding's video because it focused on those things and didn't hyperfocus on the gender stuff. I think each side has their points when it comes to Naoto's gender, that no matter which side you're on there's problematic aspects of it, and that's because the writing is so iffy in the base game. It never feels like she grows comfortable with herself, even in spin offs like Arena and PxDN she is still very much uncomfortable when her sex is brought up. I like all versions of Naoto whether that be the canon version of her as a cis woman, Naoto as transmasc, non-binary, transfem, etc. I love exploring different aspects of characters, and more Naoto headcanons means more ideas to explore and have fun with.
@@Atikal07 I agree with just about everything here except for "She may have aspergers" that term isn't really appropriate anymore given the fact its named after a nazi who did experiments on Autistic kids. Naoto would just be on the Autism Spectrum that I can fully agree with. Her attitude and interests do kind of reflect that, and her having the whole "gifted kid" thing going on, something that many Autistic kids experience before eventual burnout. So yea. 100% believe she's Autistic In some way.
@@TheCosmicJester01 I didn't know that! I remember I had a friend years ago who was diagnosed as such and thats the term that was used then. I'll make sure to keep this in mind in the future thank you for letting me know! :)
@@HidinginPrivate nah man, for what you're doing it's a skill, not a detriment. It's hard finding genuine people on the internet, you're a breath of fresh air
This is an ultimate passion project… Your hard work and countless hours invested really are appreciated by us. Your sincere love for Persona 4 comes out not just in the quality and depth of the videos, but in your voice itself. I love Naoto and Kanji most out of the P4G cast. Naoto… I initially read as a trans representation, but the more I learned of her through gameplay (and your super in depth analysis) the closer I felt to her. I relate SO much to her internal conflicts and feelings on acceptance, gender, sense of self- all of it. She is one of the most human characters in any game I’ve played. In Naoto I see myself, and in her social link there’s a kind of… hope for the future? For my own future.
I haven't finished the video yet but I like how you pick apart almost every line of dialogue to analyze Naoto's character. Most people would only talk about her social link and that's it. I also like that little bit where you talked about how the IT doesn't ever insult Naoto for how she dresses or how she speaks, that's pretty heartwarming.
Thanks and yeah I think it's heartwarming too. For a group who will basically make fun of eachother for anything, it's nice that no one ever even considers that as a thing. When she shows up after her dungeon they ask and Naoto says "I just feel more comfortable like this" and they're like "yeah alright" it's good stuff
something i dont think ive ever seen anyone talk about is that shadow naoto's design is clearly a reference to kikaider, a series about an android created with the ability to look, think and feel like a human, and his struggles with wanting to be percieved as human purely because humans hate robots, and his want for love and acceptance by those around him
@@HidinginPrivate oh sick! the length is a bit intimidating for for me so obvs havent seen it yet, ill be sure to check it out if its got more stuff in it then!
These videos are too good! Really got me to fall in love with persona 4 all over again and replay it with a new perspective. The flowers for algernon parallel was super interesting too. Keep it up!
Naoto's my favourite character in the game, and the struggle she had to face with her identity was kind of similar to something I've faced when first reading about her story, and it made me feel better and help get over this struggle of mine (: .
My main issue with the “Naoto is just a poorly written trans character!” POV is and has always been that it’s a *Western* interpretation of a Japanese story. If you don’t understand Japanese societal/cultural norms and only try to look at her through the Western lens, I don’t think one can ever truly understand her character. Great breakdown, as always.
Yes, the problem seems to be that some people think Japan is this politics free land of fun where these issues don't exist, and some people think Japan is lesser or morally wrong for conceptualizing these ideas differently. It requires a very nuanced look to make a judgement like that, which I was trying to provide.
I'm glad to hear that. An unrestricted honest pursuit of the truth is exactly the sort of thing thematically that fits Persona 4. I don't want to avert my gaze haha
Great analysis, but if you wouldn't mind one extra tidbit that I'm sad often gets overlooked, it's that Naoto's dungeon is a dead ringer for showa era tokusatsu shows. Bad guys would have secret layers and various iterations would conduct themselves like illuminati style world changers with overly grandiose names, but the big thing is the operation. Often in older showa tokusatsu the bad guys would kidnap people and perform an operation to turn them into monsters (chained to the operating table and everything). The very first Kamen Rider is probably the poster boy for this as he was kidnapped and forcibly turned into cyborg but escaped before his brainwashing was complete. A lot of Kamen Riders would borrow this general premises of humans forcibly operated on and transformed into cyborgs with the themes of the kamen riders and evil orgs all drawing their power from the same technology (by the heisei era the operation gimmick is phased out but the same technology theme generally stays). Somewhat similar to how Personas and Shadows are one in the same, but it's also very Japanese pop-culture iconography that I think got lost on western fans since these rarely survived the cross over into Power Rangers. Her shadow's boss form is also a dead ringer for Kikaider, a somwhat-less-obscure-than-most one-shot tokusatsu characters whose whole deal was a robot with an incomplete conscious chip that makes him feel human. A robot stuck between two worlds is reflected in his design of half blue *(representing humanity) and half red (representing him as a machine) with the red side exposing his electronic brain. Shadow Naoto's design is also very similar in that one half is dressed normal and the other half is robotic with an exposed electronic brain. Which is just another duality theme in the end which you already cover. Super Sentai and Kamen Rider is generally regarded as a little boys show, so the fact that she uses these iconographies to represent what she believes is her ideal self (the robot boss mid dungeon as you point out in the video essay) just adds more to her struggle with gender in her inner world. But all in all, I think it's just another statement on Naoto that she's repressing her childhood (and possible obsession with Super Sentai, given she correct Chie on her character archetype when put in the featherman costume) deep down in order to come off as more adult which the video covers. Wether this is just the TV world being the TV world or really integral to Naoto I guess I'm not totally sure. All in all your video covers her perfectly and the extra material just reinforces whats already there. I'm just a tokusatsu nerd that was grinning from ear to ear over everything in Naoto's dungeon.
I actually talk about all of this as an added piece in the full Persona 4 analysis video I just dropped. I added like a 2minute segment about just this!
@@HidinginPrivate 2 minutes is better than no minutes, that's awesome! Just need to find a segment in time to watch it. These are awesome videos, and thank you!
Naoto is also a favourite of mine. You've put it into well into words. I've not heard of Flowers for Algernon before, and it sure sounds like a good fit into the theme and mood here.
The bird logo in Naoto's dungeon could also be a nod to Shocker from 1971's Kamen Rider. Shocker had many secret bases similar to the dungeon, often in remote areas. She also dresses similarly to Robot Detective K. (the coat and flat cap outfit) and her dungeon boss has a face that is grey with a yellow eye on one side, also like K. The half & half design is also very similar to Kikaider.
Pog video as always. I’m grateful to hear your research and opinions on all these characters. Humans in reality are so complex, and I’ve felt it may be uncanny to also see such complexity in fiction beyond explicitly stated motivations and traits. Me and a friend have really enjoyed discussing the characters in these games from our own view and from others that we’ve seen. Knowing he and I will have more to chat about gives me something fun to look forward too. Thanks!
naoto is by far one of the most popular characters from the game, i mean how can you not love her, and also amazing that just like Chie's segment this was also uploaded on Shirogane Sunday, happy coincidence, great video, just it's so well done and so amazing that you could cover so much about her, i appreciate this a lot :-)
Actually fun fact, the first day you can start Naoto's dungeon is September 17th, the same day I uploaded this haha. I'm glad you liked the video, she's my favorite.
I know why people think Naoto is trans, but as a woman, I don't really think it was that. Online, when I join communities, I don't tell people my gender, and I let them assume I am male, because a lot of people tend to treat women worse. I don't hate myself or my body, but I would struggle to be looked at or treated the same way if people saw me as a woman. Obviously I can't hide my gender irl, but sometimes I wish I could. I get tired of being harassed.
Short note: when «otoko no ko» is mentioned, it refears to «男の娘» instead of «男の子» (both «otoko no ko»). Otoko no ko means «male child» when written «男の子», where «子» (ko) means «child» (not gendered), but «娘» (ko) means «female child», and that's where the concept changes. There's this thing of using «娘» in male concepts to make them look like boyish girls, like «撲っ娘» (bokukko) for girls that use «boku» (male «I/me») and «俺っ娘» for those who use «ore» (another male «I/me»).
I don't think we can definitively say what Naoto's feelings are towards Kanji because it's plainly obvious that she simply isn't aware of his feelings towards her. This is apparent both from her internal dialogue in Arena and her comments in Golden, such as when Kanji gets flustered seeing her in a skirt and Naoto responds with "*sigh* Come now, Kanji don't force yourself. A tough guy like you, pretending to get all weak in the knees over me is beyond the pale." And even with Yosuke and Yu, most of the times where she gets flustered isn't due to flirting. It's when she feels diminished, like when Yosuke teases her over not being able to help during exams, when Yu makes her feel like a child during her Social Link, or when she assumes the group isn't taking her seriously during the field trip. She has a similar issue with her own grandfather reminding her that she is, in fact, still a child. To be honest, I don't think Naoto has a conscious interest in anyone. She herself states that she has no time or care for such things and only starts to show an interest in Yu after he shows an interest in her...and even then, the player has to be *really* pushy about it. If it weren't for the fact that all player romances are valid, I'd honestly suspect that Naoto wasn't in love with Yu at all and more in love with the idea of being loved and accepted, similar to Ai, who showcases a lot of the same unhealthy behavior in the false lover's path. Nice job on covering Naoto's gender issues...I feel like the reason people have issues with her conflict with her shadow is because they view it as a rejection of transgenderism as a whole. They think Naoto's acceptance of her gender is a denial of transgenderism and that transgenderism is just "lying to yourself". If you assume that transgenderism is the focus here, then it's easy to understand why people come to this conclusion, but transgenderism really isn't the theme at all and that's not the message they're trying to get across. Honestly, out of all the characters, I think Naoto is the hardest to properly localize from a Japanese perspective to a Western perspective. Even in a modern time period, LGBT issues just don't get the same cultural focus in Japan that it does in the west. And aside from that, I think Naoto's romance path transitioned well into western culture, which is probably (partly) why it comes across as so unhealthy to western fans. From what I can tell, her romance was localized well, but there's just a massive cultural barrier that makes Yu's behavior come across as creepy or predatory when it isn't meant to be.
I understand this was posted a year ago, but this is one of the greatest takes I’ve seen EVER on Naoto, I’m a hardcore Naoto fan and seeing a lot of people who TRULY understand her character makes me very happy. Especially the section regarding how Naoto most likely isn’t actually in love with anyone at all throughout the entire story. Because you have to think, Naoto grew up never really having experiences of love like that, since she had no friends growing up, so I definitely feel like she doesn’t truly understand the feeling of love. But likes the idea of being loved, because it’s entirely factual to say she only shows interest in you because you show it in her. Naoto is a character who has completely stolen my heart, so seeing true solders out here fighting the good fight along side me makes me much more optimistic about people’s general view of her character. I honestly think if they remake P4 (which they most likely will within the next decade….hopefully) they’ll probably change some stuff around with her social link or give her significantly more screen time so players get to know her a lot more. That or they could add a character, maybe even a new member for the investigation team also who is just her canon boyfriend in the story, perhaps they both share a social link together like the two athletes for the strength arcana, so you hang out with both of them. Then as it progresses the two start to express their love for one another, I do hate the idea of stealing away peoples chance at romancing her though. But I think they could get away with still letting us see the romance scenes between Naoto and this new male character throughout the story, the one thing I see this being a problem with also is this just creates a love triangle also, which may come off as unoriginal or as a bad thing. Since Kanji would like Naoto, Naoto would like this new guy, and then the new guy would also like Naoto. But I ultimately think it could be for the best, plus adding a new character also means a new dungeon, so even more gameplay. I think it’s an interesting idea, definitely open to other’s opinions on it, especially since to the best of my knowledge there hasn’t been an official couple on any team in a Persona game, so it’s something new also.
Wonderful analysis as always! Hopped on this train recently and I really appreciate all the insight. Your interpretation of the dialogue options that I always see people having a problem with mirrors some thoughts I've had about them but hadn't actualized in my head. With the thing about voice pitch, though, while tailoring herself to someone who accepts her regardless seems very obvious to me now, I actually had a slightly different angle on it. I interpreted it more based on the fact that "I like it higher" gives Bond Points, which lead me to believe that Naoto actually is wanting to speak with her natural, higher pitch but needs a helpful push to switch. Her awkward response to "Whichever you prefer" made me think her plan for you give her the push fails in this instance. Of course, the points could also just stem from you playing along with her own desire to indulge your preferences. Anyway, as with the others, the detailed analysis of historical context and Japanese mythology provided enjoyable insight into things that I probably never would have researched on my own time, but gave me a greater appreciation for the story and characters that I love!
This may just be me but the most striking moments of Naoto for me was the potential Social Link botching you talked about, and her suggestion to throw Namatame into the TV. You already said pretty much everything I could about the first thing, but the second is something I need to address. I'm not going to give her too much crap considering all signs pointed to Namatame being the killer and likely going to get away with it, but for someone as level-headed as her to suggest straight up killing a man was a holy shit moment like few else, especially considering how on board Yosuke and Kanji were with it. Not to mention some concerning bits about her personas that foreshadow this scene. Her original persona, Sukuna-Hikona, was a straight up villain in Devil Summoner, wanting to destroy the capital for a great injustice. Her Ultimate Persona, Yamato-Takeru, murdered his own brother, terrified his own father, and spent a good bit of his life fighting wars by said father. Not to mention she specializes in Almighty Damage and INSTANT DEATH SPELLS, especially pre Golden. Not to say she would've ended up like Adachi, but starting to think the investigation team really did the police force a favor by giving her the support group she needed so much.
Glad you liked it. It was the most surprising discovery for me too researching the video if I'm honest. Glad you liked it. I actually teared up recording that part too haha
SO EXCITED FOR THIS ONE!! The editing has only gotten better, and I'm excited for future projects by you. I saw the previous video and I know you're considering making this your last harrah...please don't. Your content genuinely makes my day and makes me think so critically of an IP that has saved my life in a few ways. No matter what, you're an inspiration. Thanks for your analysis.
Thanks. Well I appreciate the kind words. I'd like to keep doing my best wherever possible. I want ot continue doing thinks sometimes I just feel hopeless and discouraged. Hope you enjoyed the video
i don't like those "I don't care what the creators say, Naoto IS a trans boy, stop misgendering him, this headcanon keeps me going, I know this is true because I see myself in him!" people
I get how they feel but at the same time even if you're trans you don't get to decide if another person is trans or not. It's up that individual to decide. Granted were talking about a fictional character here but the point still stands.
Naoto should've made more of an effort to watch "Murder she wrote". Now that's a great representation of a strong female detective. And mind you Angela Lansbury did that when she was now a senior citizen, so to accomplish as much as her character did really puts into perspective that it's not about age or gender. It's about having the knowledge and drive to succeed in the field you're in.
It always nice to learn more about one of my favorite characters of all time. I never knew about the French article or the reference to Naoto's ultimate weapon! I gotta check that book out!
Hiding-kun, I cannot properly express with words how well done this is. This analysis is just incredible- the amount of thought and detail put into absolutely everything and to hear someone finally put it all into words was just amazing. Keep doing what you’re doing man.
I have to say as someone who loves P4 since 2009 I've been thoroughly impressed with your video series. You've even caught some things I haven't (like the text on the minister or the weapon being a reference to her story. Such an excellent catch and those things are depressing, it really drives home how lonely Naoto is feeling). I think Naoto's story on her gender identity and how she won't be taken seriously as a woman is even that (if at all) outdated, even by today's standards in Japan. Just in 2018 there was this huge scandal about how exams of women who wanted to become a doctor were rigged by several universities because "they didn't want too many women in that profession". In 2018. That was 10 years after(!!!) P4's initial release. It's sad when people think that's outdated. I do get that they might be upset because of the imagery with the surgery, but if the surgery is a reference to a whole other story than that explains it at least why they went there. Also your love for the character really came through to the video. I'll give you a little extra you might not have caught by the design book in reference to Naoto's evolved Personas. Their design is leaned on the protagonist of "The Roses of Versailles", Oscar, a very famous shoujo manga where the heroine is raised like a boy and becomes a soldier. You can esp see it with Yamato sumeragi with golden locks and red uniform, which is a bit more iconic look. But anyways, great work!
Absolutely fantastic, there's no other way to say it. I am so baffled by just how much effort and care is in every single video of yours! Hope you're doing great☆ ^^
I absolutely love the way you covered the gender identity in this episode. I think it was handled very professionally as are all of your other episodes but this one took some finesse I don’t think most creators have the talent to tackle. 💜
I finally finished playing 4 golden and it’s great finally watching your videos on it. You analysis on it gave me a new perspective. Great job on the video!
A beautiful analysis. It really hits home a lot more than I thought it would. When I first encountered her in game I knew she’d end up being my favorite. And having experiencing the whole game there was no one else it could be. And then having watched this too, it just feels complete. Thank you, truly.
Such a fantastic character, easily my favourite of the Investigation Team, along with Kanji. Your discussion of Naoto's gender was really interesting, and really helps break down the related yet distinct differences between sex, gender, and gender expression. I've never bought into the 'Naoto is Trans' theory myself, though I do sympathise with those who earnestly hold to that theory. Despite Atlus writing two really great non-conforming characters in Naoto and Kanji, it can't be denied that there's still work to be done in positive representation on LGBTQ+ characters in the series. They definitely do better with Naoto than Kanji, as you said, it's really heart-warming how the IT really don't mind however Naoto presents, whereas Kanji never quite shakes off scepticism from some members of the IT. In future games, I do hope they consider implementing a trans or non-binary character in the narrative, either as a party member or social link. They almost did it with Lala-chan, but then went and made the investigative reporter the focus instead. To say nothing of adding a same-sex romance into the game, but maybe I'm asking for too much.
Naoto is my favorite as well, along w/ Kanji. I'm glad it could break down a fuller context for the character and that you found it interesting. I wanted to give it the time to breathe without it consuming the video and hope it came across. Yeah them not treating her differently for the dress and vocabulary is really nice i think. Naoto being Trans never crossed my mind on my first playthrough way back when, but the more i replayed and the more cultural understanding changed as well as my own information on the subject I was able to see where people were coming from, although it always seemed to omit something. My biggest problem with the debate from both sides is the insistence that anyone has any idea what they are talking about lmao. There is so much cultural and historical context to consider, so much nuance. People flatly claiming "Naoto is a girl" ignores any allegorical interpretation, which is if anything, fundamental to Persona's identity as a series, and stating angrily that ATLUS was Transphobic in their depiction also shows a sort of racist western exceptionalism bc it is never paired with understanding of actual cultural context. Trying to bridge that gap was hard. In future games I also hope they have more explicitly queer characters, although I also would like ot keep more subtle representation as well, like with Kanji.
Very impressive video. I'm always wary and have gotten into the habit of staying away from video essays that discuss Naoto (and Kanji) because they usually tend to be skewed in just one direction, but quite a few people I follow on twitter really liked this video so I decided to watch. It's nice to see the LGBQT+ parts in p4 acknowledged, even if that wasn't what the game was going for, and how you made part of Naoto's journey (the sections around 20:30) connect to LGBQT+ themes and how that was a positive. Naoto isn't trans and that was never the objective, but it's so easy to see why trans people would relate to that part of her story. Overall, I think gender is a more minor part of her journey, it's still important but people tend to blow it out of proportion (and ironically I hc Naoto as nb after reading the PxDN LN lol) I think you had some good points about the "I'm glad you're a girl" line, but I think the timing of it is really really really bad. Same with the "I like your voice higher." I think if the line was changed to "Higher is also good" or something along those lines I'd be ok with it, but in that context it feels like Naoto is trying to change herself to tailor herself to the protagonist, which I really don't like. I want Naoto to be comfortable with herself and not to have to worry about pleasing me/the player. Also a bit sad you didn't do an analysis about Naoto's friendship rank 10 as I adore her rank 10. It's more satisfying to me as she confidently vows to become a formidable female detective.
I'm happy to read this. I am also wary of watching videos similarly for similar reasons (someone on my twitter actually said the same thing you did as well) Yeah I think that the "higher" line is mainly incompetence on the translating staff at the time. The actual change is in using the pronoun Boku instead of Watashi, which are not gendered, but instead describe a type of person. So like, young boys or youthful middle/early highschool boys or anyone who fits that kind of look goes by Boku, while highschool more muscular or blatantly masculine boys who are not quite business professionals, maybe college age as well might go by Ore, then Watashi is a gender neutral term used for business professional adult men, and all ages of women. Same thing with identifiers like chan, kun, san etc. San is general and professional, chan is kinda like cute girls, endearing female friendships etc, and kun is adolescent masculine boys. Since these terms are based around aesthetics and not gendered, many women and men use all of such as they feel fit how they look to others. Naoto uses Boku in the game, and people like Yukiko, Yosuke, etc refer ot Naoto as Naoto-kun, so in the japanese it's about Naoto choosing to self describe by a gender neutral adult term Watashi which also more explicitly refers to women, instead of using the boku from before. This is a hard concept to explain easily in translation casually (and many people mistakenly misrepresent boku in Naoto discussions still) but this is what the scene was initially about. I think the higher voice thing was creative in getting across the meaning but it lacks a lot of the context which is why I interpretted the line as is. Maybe I should have included this in the video lmao. Well I can always include it in the full version, anyway hopoe that gives some better context. Yeah, I should address the friendship end as well for sure. I'll try to add that to the full video. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you gave the video a chance! This is my full time job and it doesn't pay much haha so I appreciate you giving me the chance
@@HidinginPrivate I totally get the Boku/Watashi stuff and I'm actually really impressed with what the localization team came up as a substitute for it as it's a pretty damn good way to get a similar point across. I've been doing mini deep dives into the localization of P4 and p5 and uhhh well, I'll look forward to the Adachi video cause they did some intresting stuff with him.... Still need to watch your Chie video, (i've been watching your stuff intermidly, did you go into Chie's use of "Atashi" out of curosity?) Also wondered if you've looked at other games and stuff for Naoto? There's a really good scene in Q where Naoto reflects on herself and how Mitsuru caused her to reflect on herself.
I've been looking forward to this one and of course it's the one i miss on release. Great job as always. Other people have mentioned this as well but there's a clear development in your editing along the length of the series and it really came forward in this one. I think Naoto is one of the two best crafted characters in the game and you did a great job covering her.
I wanted to watch your videos as they came out, but since work starts in a few minutes so all I could really do is leave quick compliments or my thoughts of the characters prior to watching the video. But some things I want to say: -I always thought if had Naoto successfully transitioned, Naoto's life would have been full of discrimination. If female members are already looked down on by japanese police, how much more for a "fake" man? You went so much more into detail than what I could say, even empathizing with those who hold the opposing view point that it's pretty impressive honestly. -Naoto constantly putting up walls around herself and always putting herself to an unattainable standard has always been both admirable yet tragic, and man did you express that insanely well by covering that Algernon reference. -You pointing out that Yosuke or the gang in general fully accepting Naoto and how they don't tease her for the way she dresses or behaves reinforces what I love about P4: that the group feels the most cohesive of main persona games. They have fun moments, poke fun at each other but stepping out of bounds are few and frowned upon, or receive consequences. -I've also appreciated the arcana coverages, seeing how much characters align with their respective arcanas just further reinforces how well written the characters are. All that being said, I can't wait for Best Incel's video. Based on this series, I'm sure you'll have a lot to say about him.
I'm surprised you didn't cover anything regarding the TV show nature of her midnight Channel as you did with the others. If anything I often felt a kind of tokusatsu feeling to the dungeon, the secret base armed with a 70s style robot weapons.
Great video as always hope you are doing better and know that there are a lot of people who enjoy these videos hope they blow up soon in a major way and bring in as many people as possible
Another great analysis vid by Hiding-kun! And we've finally reached one of my favorite characters 😍. I know u have been having doubts abt this project, just know it's impressive how you reveal how Japanese culture is tied together with the characters, how it changed the way I see some of them (Rise and Yukiko specifically.) Keep it up, bro!
yeah I was most anxious of this segment than any other. I'm glad it came across well and that you liked the stuff I put forward across the different segments. I'll try!
so, I saw a random tweet regarding how Naoto Shirogane is a walking Tokusatsu reference. this is the moment where I realized that Naoto is best girl now. (sorry marie)
i was making my exams today while listening to this. And i need to say, thank you so much for your video's man. you genuinely helped me out so much there. I had trouble focusing and doing work because i was super bored haha. And out of nowwhere this video started playing, never have i woken up so quickly before lmao. Really got my sleepy ass to work
Thanks. Yeah I didn't like it either on a first go, but I just had to really focus in on the game itself and what they could be trying to say abt her character with it
47:00 This was written and orchestrated by her grandfather, wasn't it? 50:30 - 56:50 - 1:07:50 Yeah, that's the part I relate to. I just feel really bad for Naoto and what had to happen to her character's reception outside of the game. I really and honestly don't know how to talk about it myself. This is honestly because no one understood me and my interests and treated me like both a fantastical and dreaming kid and a responsible and professional adult and just pushed and shoved me back and forth, from abuse from my entire school system to just not having anyone to guide me through the internet when I first got my tablet and first went onto TH-cam. No one understood why I'm so adamant in defending the intellectual commentaries and the overall writing and animation of a variety of animated shows, games, movies, and being so fascinated by them while criticizing several of the shows, movies, and games that others, including my own family, seem to otherwise just enjoy. I despise war and violence and just pure nihilism and cynicism to the point where I have a nihilistic and cynical worldview of the concepts themselves and rather hang on to the meaning in the positive messages of my favorite works. I don't know how else to describe how both different I am from Naoto and just how much I relate to her feelings whilst having radically different circumstances aside from just separating them into, for now, 4 levels. The first level is my school, and as an extension of that, society's rejection of my own sense of self and my own worldview of the world is shattered once again. The second is the horrifically mismatched Backrooms/SCP Foundation/Existential horror-like interpretation of cyber-world, which once again, is another interpretation of the real world and how I had to pull and build my own sense of self together because it was routinely shattered and killed off as I, either voluntarily or unvoluntarily, dove deeper and deeper into learning more and more about the real world, to the point where there are some days when I just feel stressed out and hopeless and depressed from both of the prior two levels in which I try to understand and input the real world but the more I find out, the more I'm disappointed, underwhelmed and overwhelmed, and just being pulled in so many different directions to getting so many questions and answers. The third point is connected to the second level pulling in all of the positive and negative things and trying to organize them neatly into an inner world. This is essentially the processing factory of the entire thing, as it gets into the innermost world, the fourth level. The fourth level is the inner world, and this is where the world finally makes sense until level one starts to send somethings through level 2 that needs to be understood and finally processed it into the fourth level, where everything finally makes sense and is stable. Okay, nvm, I probably don't know what I'm talking about. So, just take away from this as me trying to say something on her because I just don't know what to say. Yeah, you know what, trash this concept.
I was worried that (like a lot of videos on the subject) you would be unwilling to remove your personal bias on the subject and speak from an unbiased perspective of the subject, so I'm pleasantly surprised to see you do exactly that in an extremely tactful way. I was almost going to skip this video due to how toxic discussions on this particular character's identity quickly become -- how judgemental they are, and how much they frame either side of the conversation -- so I'm glad I can say, only 30 minutes in, that you've already layed a groundwork that can make me trust your arguments, and assures me that you aren't speaking from some bias, or 'for-or-against' a particular pre-conception of the narrative. Moreso than even research, it takes a serious amount of honesty to tackle a subject like this one, and I hope other people can appreciate that quality in your work more so than ever. Translator's note: HE 👏 DON'T 👏 MISS 👏😭
Thank you Novac. This did take a lot of work, and my #1 priority was to try and understand the issue as fully as I could. I'm glad you didn't skip the video and were happy with how it came out. I appreciate that
i love this series, i love your analysis, and i love how truly well written this game is. however, one thing that strikes me as odd, as someone who reads tarot and studies astrology, is why the writers made naoto a taurus when she is written like a virgo. there are very few connections i can see between her in-game arcana and her sign. while taurus is represented on the wheel of fortune on the commonly used rider waite deck, and is considered one of the feminine polarities on it, i don't see very many connections between these two things beyond this. it would make more sense for her to be a virgo, ruled by mercury, rather than the venus-ruled taurus. venus, which is the planet of love, is also the planet of ethics- justice and truth being naoto's main driver. but, even then, taurus is considered the sensual, physical aspect of venus, rather than the ethical, abstract side of it, which is firmly in the domain of libra- another sign that would be more fitting to her character. to me, it would make naoto a great foil to rise if she did represent the other half of mercury, with rise being gemini and naoto being virgo. mercury is the planet of connection and communication, quick thinking, and efficiency- all of which are central to naoto's character. mercury is an androgynous planet as well. the mind and how one thinks has no bearing on whether someone was born male or female or how they represent. virgo is the maiden of the zodiac- a young woman who is chaste and dedicated to service. virgo is also represented by the major arcana card the hermit, which is the card right before naoto's in-game arcana, the wheel- her being sandwiched between herself and what she strives for. I'm sure there's someone out there who can give a justification for this kind of lesser aspect of her character, and truly i would love to hear it! but everyone on the investigation team's zodiac sign makes some level of sense to me except for naoto's. sorry if this is long and silly and not what people are interested in, but i'm gonna put my two cents in on a character i admire a lot!!
I absolutely adore this analysis, you did a phenomenal job picking apart every aspect of her character and you spoke about the controversy quite tastefully. Naoto is such an amazing character and its sad that her amazing writing is often smothered by all the arguments about her identity. I feel that people often forget this game was made years ago, and that western gender norms/ roles are much different then those in Japan, so there is so much room for misinterpretation of what her character was meant to portray.
1:04:15 You forgot to mention that if you ask her to use the lighter voice. You get to see her try on her woman's version of the school outfit the next time you meet her. Good video.
Thanks yeah, ig I just didn't see it as narratively adding much that the voice part didn't. But I should have included it atleast offhand especially considering how many small details i include haha
Excellent analysis! You can really tell Naoto's your favourite just by the editing and lenght. I had no idea a simple weapon called Algernon had so much lore and inspiration behind it, let alone you could find it in the game. The book sounds really interesting, if I ever come across it I'll be sure to pick it up!
![𝗘𝗫𝗣𝗢𝗦𝗘𝗗: Rise Kujikawa's True Self [P4G Analysis]](/img/n.gif)
Hey it's finally out! I really appreciate if you would comment and give your thoughts as well as like, bc this obviously took a lot of work.
Naoto is my favorite character personally in Persona 4 and I wanted to give a thorough look as I could without the Naoto segment overpowering the rest of things TOO disproportionately haha. I'm still nervous but I hope you enjoy. Naoto's unfortunate history of discussion and controversy probably has people with their heels already dug in on both sides, I just hope people can in the very least understand this is a much more complex topic than people treat it as. The amount of research I did honestly doesn't come across in the video. Anyways, the Adachi segment is next! I'm not sure if it will be done in time for next saturday, but it should atleast be ready by the saturday after next! Enjoy yourselves!
by the way why did you put this series on your second channel instead of your main one?
Thanks for the amount of research you do for these videos. Please take the time you need on the Adachi one, I find him such an interesting character and will be waiting for your analysis. Take care.
This was great man it gave me the understanding of the legendary detective heroes story
I love her struggle and battles with society and herself and such a inspiration to future heroes
Great video. I don't know you personally but I think you are putting yourself too much in your work. You are more than just these videos or your channels. Even if they 'fail' by the standards of youtube doesn't mean you yourself have failed. You may want to step back a little after all this is done. Talk to people, look around a bit, look at your options. Don't beat yourself up too much just because you weren't favored by the algorithm.
So excited for the Adachi segment!
Naoto: Let us express ourselves in a gentlemanly way.
Kanji: Are you hitting on me 🤨.
Classic kanji
@@HidinginPrivate 😂
"You sayin' I like dudes?"
@@AZUREREV "M' takin you punks down!"
(And then there was a wacky chase scene!)
I always liked how Naoto's shadow is designed, with it wearing an oversized labcoat to make it seem small and by extention makes it look like a child in adult clothes. Very good video!
I absolutely love Naoto and I think she is one of the most misunderstood in gaming. The work and effort you put into these videos is phenomenal and honestly I haven't been keeping up with them recently but I will make sure to watch every second of the full version when it drops.
The full version sure will be chunky. Hope you enjoy that once it comes
My husband over heard me watching this and gave a neat detail i wanted to share. You mentioned that Naoto used a NEW Nambu gun, apparently the old ones, type 94 to be exact, had issues with accidental discharge. I wonder if Adachi had the old one and if thats what led to him accidentally shooting someone.
Thank you for actually clarifying the whole issue on her whole gender identity in the video. I honestly relate to her heavily and I've felt the idea that she is trans defeats the actual point that's trying to be made. I'm a gender non conforming woman myself, so it's genuinely very frustrating that people do not understand that interpreting her is trans is both ignoring cultural context and implying people need to confirm to societal expectations of what they are. Her character in general is what made me play the game in the first place, as I'd never seen a more accurate depiction of the feelings I'd experienced growing up. Very well researched video.
Because some people think she's trans
She’s a masculine men, not exactly a tomboy. But she has masculine traits while still being a woman. The fact people see a feminine man or a masculine woman and think they are trans is sad and really shows the society we live in
Oo😊
I don't think anyone is at fault in thinking that Naoto's storyline comes across as transphobic. The idea of "only wanting to change their sex to escape being subjected to the tyranny of being a woman in a male dominated work space" is a very common negative stigma that many transmen are subjected to. Considering that this a common view on transmen and Persona 4's main theme is accepting oneself and not running from the truth; it's easy to see that if someone were to depict this transphobic rhetoric in this medium, this is probably how it'd look. So even though Atlus is meaning to make meaningful commentary on workplace misogyny, it's incredibly likely that they may also have intended this to be a commentary on transgender men, as well; the fact that Atlus, in their very next game by this team of writers and developers, would make a pretty transphobic depiction of a transwoman (Erica from Catherine), in which her identity is also treated as lying to oneself and the people around her.
No one's trying to erase your identity nor your struggles and it's great that Naoto's storyline helped you with your struggles but I don't believe that erases what may very well have been the author's intent when writing it.
@@jeannepixel4692 saying no one is trying to erase my struggles is a bit disingenuous. You personally cannot know that, and I'd argue that I've encountered it a lot, from both cis and trans people. It might be easy to assume Naoto's storyline is transphobic if you ignore the fact that in her story, people's issues with Naoto and subsequently her issues with herself stem from more than just her gender.
The fact that you used someone else's video of Naoto's reversal instead of your own is as wholesome as it is hilarious. You didn't have the heart to reject this girl for anything. I respect that lol
Haha yeah ain't no way I tell naoto I don't care lmao
While I’m not surprised since it isn’t as big as a thing in the west compared to Japan I was sad to not see you talke the “tokusatsu” parts of her character. Her dungeon is less directed at detective comics but at Japanese children’s superhero shows even her persona and shadow themselves takes heavy inspiration from them.
The dungeon is based on Kamen rider’s shocker based as evident by the amount of bird imagery and the concept of “body modification” which ties in to her persona Hikona, it’s large V shaped head crest and bug motif is a very obvious nod towards Japan’s most popular super hero. Yet it also shows how Naoto’s tendency to wall herself off because she’s different, Kamen rider is a hero known for his lonely rode fighting a secret society by his lonesome mirroring Naoto’s fight with the male dominated society of the police force.
It’s also worthy to note that her persona also shows sign’s of sentai, the progenitor of the power ranger’s series. As here in Japan the cape is the symbol of a sentai theme while a scarf announces a rider showcasing that Naoto does want a team, a family, of her own. To be accepted for who she is in her own group of weirdoes.
Her shadow however is based on Kikaider. A purely robotic, android hero. Kikaider is different from Rider in that Rider wears a mask to hide the truth of his difference to himself in a way to hide the pain. Kikaider doesn’t change at all, he is still a machine of justice wether he transforms or not which connects to her shadow’s want of turning the facade of being a male detective into a reality. Making the mask true.
And here comes Sumeragi with two more references to Rider. First is the flowing blonde hair, which is a reference to how the first Kamen rider mask actually showed the actor’s hair poking in the back showcasing that the cyborg bug man was still human, translating itself to Naoto as underneath the her cold surface is a love able dork. The second is the twin silver lines down her body, Kamen rider in the later half of the season changes from a completely dark looking hero, outfit made of dark green and black the only highlights is the piercing red eyes and crimson scarf, to having light greens, silver gloves and twin silver lines across the body.
During this point in the story, Rider wasn’t alone, he had people that understood him and supported him. People that not only cared for him but rode his path with him agaun mirroring Naoto’s journey accepting herself and creating her own group of friends.
Thank you! I will include this in the full video version once it comes out! I actually do mention this being a reference to tokusatsu briefly in my living world of inaba segment but not nearly as indepth as this. Thanks!
@@HidinginPrivate oh! I also forgot to mention that some children here in Japan, mostly those that love Kamen rider, used to stay out late at night so they could get kidnapped and turned into modified humans like Kamen rider lol. You can usually read these types of comments on older rider shows, I’m one of them lol.
This makes the secret base and the genome project sound way, WAY more childish as it means it’s a childish interpretation of how surgery works and it’s lasting effects on people.
Thanks for the additional context! Was very interesting!
Naoto ultimately had 2 problems. First, accepting her femininity as part of who she is. But also accepting that liking "childish" things like Featherman etc. is fine, and she doesn't need to pretend to fit in. I like that her dungeon leaned far more into the second part, while her shadow dealt with the first.
Nearly every aspect of this video hurt me with the amount I related to it and then you stating at the end that you also related to nearly every aspect of her character is just a testament to the strength of the characters both in this game and the series as a whole I think. They are realistic in a way where you can really see bits of yourself and the people you know in them. They feel real.
I love Naoto. I want to be Naoto
Only 26 seconds in and the editing is definitely a massive step up! Very excited to finish the video and hear your thoughts.
Thanks, yeah this one took a long time. Hope you like it. A lot of complex stuff to wade through
There were several points in this video that I was tearing up. How much care you put into discussing and explaining Naoto shows the dedication and work you have put not only hear but in the rest of this series. Honestly, I never noticed the Algernon reference before, and you tying it in felt like a revelation. Thank you so much.
I have thoroughly enjoyed every part of this series, however I think this one is my favourite. Such a careful, nuanced, and well-researched look at such a contentious topic is worthy of applause. Plus, the analysis of the dungeon design brought up a lot of things I never would have noticed on my own and has made a dungeon I already loved shoot into the position of my favourite one now. Absolutely stellar video in a stellar series!
Thank you. This has been the part I have had to rewrite, and rewrite again and again and spent so much time trying to understand these concepts along modern, historical, cultural and language barriers. It sucks too as even with all the nuance I'm afraid people will have dug their heels in on this historically contentious topic and close their ears. It's unfortunate too since I don't really agree with either of the major perspectives. I'm sort of caught in between here, the worst place to be haha. I just hope people will listen in good faith
@@HidinginPrivate Yeah, I definitely think that, unfortunately, there are a bunch of people who will have taken one reading from their first playthrough and not let it go. Still, you have explained your perspective on the discussion in a very engaging way, so hopefully you're able to sway some people!
@@HidinginPrivate ugh, what can ya do? You have already done ur part. Let them plug their fingers into their ears if they don't wanna listen.
One thing I really relate to Naoto with is her struggles with her height. I’m a pretty short woman, with a face like a scared deer on top of that (as more than one person has described me). I have to do a lot to present myself as strong, emotionally and physically, but my size still gives me odd looks when lifting at the gym. On top of that, there’s the idea of “small = cute = child = okay to touch.” I don’t mean that in a harassment sort of way. People just think it’s okay to pull me into hugs or pat me or other things you would do to a child. In a lot of media, you see short people get infantilized a lot or treated like a complete joke. It’s pretty disheartening a lot of the time. It’s not the worst case of weird media tropes, but it is one that has messed with me in the past.
Naoto coming to terms with her body and her maturity is an interesting perspective on this. At this point in her life, it’s pretty unlikely that she’ll get taller. She struggles allowing people to help her and with her interests in what society deems as childish. It’s something I relate to a lot. It’s a balance that I’ve been able to achieve, but only after I stopped caring about what other people thought of my harmless likes/dislikes. It’s a little aspect of Naoto’s character that just speaks to me.
I recently found out about this channel, i like Naoto's character and i think you did a very good job explaining Naoto's arc and struggles. I hope this series reach out to more people and learn more about this characters and world. Good job
Thank you Olimar. I'm glad you liked it. I love pikmin as well and glad you thought I covered the topic well
Just gotta say you’ve completely changed my perception on some of the investigation team and all the characters in p4 in a good way of course so thanks the videos are amazing.
Thanks for watching them!! I've put a lot of myself into these
The Naoto gender discussion was the part of the video I was the most intrigued with going into the video because I wasn't entirely what conclusion you'd come to. The discussion around her gender identity has easily been one of the most annoying and toxic debates within the fanbase since it always felt to me that people were willingly ignoring the story in order to come to conclusion that Naoto is a trans character. You were able to provide an expert level analysis on that discussion and even threw in topics I hadn't even considered when it came to that debate. The part where you mention that she projects a male person not for her own sake but for the sake of others is I think one of the stronger arguments against the Naoto trans reading that I haven't seen anyone bring up.
I think your mention of how people when talking about Naoto are unintentionally displaying Western chauvinism and jingoism really points out why the discussion can get as toxic as it gets. I think the Western fanbase subconsciously holds the idea that the Western world is the default and everyone should aspire to be like it, so whenever something from another culture displays thoughts or ideas that go against that grain we automatically dismiss it as something inherently bad. I see this a lot with Japanese media and it can pretty frustrating since people can come off across as racist even if that was never there intent. Persona 5 gets a lot of that criticism when it comes to its political philosophy where people would rather it go a more anarchic/revolutionary route rather then the path that game eventually took and then people dismiss it as "classic Japanese conservatism". This isn't to suggest that Persona 5, or even other Japanese titles, are above criticism, but I do think it is important to understand the culture it comes from and how the way they view certain topics could influence the work they create.
Sorry if this came off as rambly. Keep up the good work! This has been some of the most in depth analysis on a decade old JRPG I've ever seen.
Great comment. I also grow tired of the cultural imperialism. Let other cultures decide how to handle these issues, it’s not up to us to “save them” from their “backwards” culture.
Worst example you could've picked but go off
it's not even the conclusion that she was trans that bugged me; Headcanons are fine, as long as you acknowledge that that's all they are, but the insistence that it's fact, and calling anyone who disagrees a bigot, is infuriating. Certainly, some of the backlash against the headcanons was bigoted in nature, and there's even an argument to be made that the writing itself is at least somewhat transphobic ("Cultural differences" can only excuse so much, and it's not imperialism to want people to be respected), but that doesn't mean it's okay to brand everyone who supports the canon text as a bigot.
@@CABRALFAN27 The cultural imperialism is mainly from the perspective of prescribing a western reading of a character when that was never the author's original intention. I'm pretty sure that what Hiding in Private meant and I agree with that assessment. If she was written as a trans character and the narrative treated her poorly then I'd agree with that criticism, but because she wasn't written with that lense in mind I think the criticism is entirely unfounded as it's essentially criticising an aspect of the game that was never the real intention.
@@CABRALFAN27 and are the people why brand everyone as a bigot in the room with us right now?
You did an amazing job covering some very difficult subject matter. Huge props for treating it with the appropriate respect!
Thank you. I really, really, really, tried to understand it the best I could
It's so cool how through these videos, not only can I get a better understanding of my favorite characters, but learn more about the Japanese culture and history, as well as gain a little better understanding of the people behind the game. It's super super cool!
The amount of detail, both in her writing and your videos is truly impressive. Like, I usually have a very limited understanding of how the personas and the arcanas connect to the characters, outside of the persona designs and the names of their arcana, so it's really cool to see how much thought they put in all of this.
All of this just makes me wanna play P4G all over again xd.
Amazing job as always! Hope you're having a good day out there, cheers!
I'm glad to hear all of this! The pursuit of the truth, and of greater knowledge is the core theme of Persona 4, I hope to truly give as much context and as many answer as I can to justify covering a game with such a theme. Thanks for the nice words!
damn that algernon segment brought back memories. broke my heart when charlie was falling apart in the end
a few years ago i did not understand why people thought naoto was trans. i thought that the game explained it well enough that she accepted herself as a woman. tho it never really bothered me. i figured they must have their own personal reasons for seeing her as trans and that wasnt really my business
buuut then i found out i was trans masc and started relating to certain naoto moments and with some of her feelings with wanting to be male lol. these days i sometime read trans masc fics of her just for some euphoria, non-binary headcanons are cool too
her fear of rejection is so relatable. i love her character so much. i cant wait to do her social link myself lol (the compass thing is so cute)
i myself found the "i like it higher" line kinda uncomfy but you brought up some good points in that segment
The algernon part was actually the part I was most excited to share, bc I had never seen someone discuss it before and I feel like it adds so much important nuance to the dungeon and character.
When I first played the game years back I didn't even register a trans interpretation, but being aware over the years of the community discussion beck and forths and me also coming to terms with my sexuality and gender identity (and still am somewhat) I can't help but see Naoto as atleast on a thematic level, a very positive message of empowerment for any queer people. When I have seen anyone talk about this prior it's always slanted to make the Devs look transphobic and as uncharitable as possible- excluding context and the like. On the other end there are genuinely plenty of people who angrily push back on the Naoto bit clearly coming from a transphobic place and also not understanding the nuance or acknowledging things like how they sort of like the presentation they've taken on after facing themselves. I wanted to provide a complete nuance, and try to find the truth. That's the game's theme afterall.
I relate to Naoto heavy
This is my favorite segment of your series Hiding in Private
1. Naoto best girl in P4G. I've always liked Naoto because of her design and character but this makes me like her more.
2. Your delivery and editing. It's kind of a guarantee but I like listening to what you have to say.
3. The Analysis.
I find it fascinating that there all of studies and social norms connect to Naotos own character. I find her distancing a clever nod since her persona is based on a distant god.
Also I relate to Naoto on a lot of things and this video brought that out. I've been through similar this and felt I needed to put up a facade to fit in for others. Now that is not the case and thanks to this video I feel more confident in my own faith and in myself.
I'm glad I made it to this video this has been well worth my time.
Side Note: when I was originally typing this I accidentally posted it on a different video that wasn't this one. When I realized my mistake I deleted and begin writing this comment. I was slightly freaked out but after regaining my composure I started to write this comment.
Well I'm glad not only did you like the segment but that it came out to be your favorite. IT was a lot of work but I'm happy with how it came out and happy most people seem to see where I'm coming from and also relate to her character. THe algernon bit was my favorite to share.
@@HidinginPrivate The Algernon was probably the most surprising part for me.
Great work as always, so glad to have followed this project since the beginning. Sad to see that we're in the final leg of the journey, but grateful to have been a part of it.
I hope I can continue with future projects going forward. We still have a bit before it's over though
Excellent video. I don't usually comment, but I wanted to say that your analysis videos have given me a new appreciation towards Persona 4. I played p4 for the first time this summer and while i enjoyed it, i didn't appreciate just how much nuances the games writing has until i saw your videos. Naoto was my favorite character from P4 and you really did her justice. cant wait for the Adachi analysis and the eventual complete P4 video. aside from that i hope you have a nice day.
Thanks, well I appreciate the comment. The adachi video is very fun and philosophically the most engaging for me. I'm excited for people to see it. This part was the most difficult to make for sure. Thanks for the support and for appreciating the work I'm trying to put in
You know what? Now that I think about it, Naoto and Kanji are polar opposites and in a way, very similar. Well, at least their struggles are.
Both have to deal with wanting to be accepted for who they are, but have been constantly told no because it doesn't fit with their respective gender. So they both put up walls, or acts, to hide they're real selves. Of course, both went about it very differently.
That's true. In all honesty since p4 is about facing yourself, all of the cast's struggles deal with their identity, who they want to be and how they're perceived. It's part of why I love p4
@@HidinginPrivate Yeah, me too. It makes you relate to them more than the other Persona games do.
I’ve watched a few of your P4 character analysis videos and I must commend you for all the work put in. I already loved the game but you’ve brought so many little details to my attention that I would have never known otherwise. The true P4 golden experience has included coming back to these videos after completing the game.
Amazing work as always, I find Naoto to be a much deeper character than what alot of people give her credit for on social media, like they never played the game or actualy thought critically about her character and development.
keep up the great work Mr. Hiding
in my opinion, naoto is an extremely well written social commentary on sexism and misogyny in asian culture. and i’m really, *really* happy that you covered that as i’m asian (and nb) myself and i struggle with dealing that so much within my culture. i do believe that seeing her as a fully trans man is offensive because of that, as it disregards the struggles of afab people in a misogynistic society. i personally dealt with the same struggles that she did- not caring what i used to like and be seen as until i started to be around people and became aware of how it could cause people to look down on me.
this is a personal headcanon of mine, but i’ve always seen naoto as neurodivergent in some way considering how she lacks emotional awareness, molds herself to match what others want of her, how much she fears rejection and how she’s so fixated on detectives and whatnot.
anyway. awesome video, it made me really happy to see someone understand her as she’s really, really important to me. sorry for rambling so much, but i hope this conveys my feelings :)
>"i do believe that seeing her as a fully trans man is offensive because of that, as it disregards the struggles of afab people in a misogynistic society."
But headcanoning Naoto as trans man would not erase that Naoto is AFAB? Naoto would still be very much looked down for being so if they were transmasc. Did you mean 'women' instead?
Also I see the autistic headcanon for Naoto pop up every now and then. I wish it was a more popular headcanon.
I interpret Naoto in exactly the same way , which is pretty cool! See much of myself in her which is probably why (besides the Asian cultural context) . She seems very fixated, playing a role, and a little socially anxious besides anything related to her job. Not to say she isn't strong, or cool, or a very skilled detective. She just has a very limited and stereotypical view of what a brilliant detective looks and acts like, thanks to the influences around her.
So, she molds herself to that expectation even though she dosen't seem to realise she's incredibly intelligent and competent and good at professional talk. She's already an ace detective, but she feels like she needs to play the more stereotypical image of one to get the respect of people around her. It's the product of a very restrictive and judgemental society, definitely.
But I don't think interpreting her differently, say as a trans man, is offensive. She is initially uncomfortable with dressing more effeminate in the Culture Festival, after all. And even if you don't view her as a trans man but are viewing it through a modern lens, I can see how the constant fixation on her boobs and the scary operation shtick being a bit upsetting.
@@GudetamaSit It's such an underrated headcanon! Maybe it's because of the time period p4 came out in? Futaba is typically accepted as being autistic but I think there was much more awareness/understanding of that type of thing in 2016+ vs late 2000s when p4 came out. I can see Naoto maybe even having Aspergers.
This is another thing I don't see talked about! The type of media she consumed and how she got so absorbed in it that she forgot reality! It's not uncommon for detectives that are brought in from the outside are treated pretty badly and tried to be chased out/ignored! It's happened a lot in real life! Naoto was so focused on following her detective stories that she totally shut her eyes from reality and how she would realistically be treated as an outside detective. I feel like the gender stuff gets too focused in on because while it certainly is part of her character, there are other aspects of her character/story that people tend to ignore. It's why I loved Hiding's video because it focused on those things and didn't hyperfocus on the gender stuff.
I think each side has their points when it comes to Naoto's gender, that no matter which side you're on there's problematic aspects of it, and that's because the writing is so iffy in the base game. It never feels like she grows comfortable with herself, even in spin offs like Arena and PxDN she is still very much uncomfortable when her sex is brought up. I like all versions of Naoto whether that be the canon version of her as a cis woman, Naoto as transmasc, non-binary, transfem, etc. I love exploring different aspects of characters, and more Naoto headcanons means more ideas to explore and have fun with.
@@Atikal07 I agree with just about everything here except for "She may have aspergers" that term isn't really appropriate anymore given the fact its named after a nazi who did experiments on Autistic kids. Naoto would just be on the Autism Spectrum that I can fully agree with. Her attitude and interests do kind of reflect that, and her having the whole "gifted kid" thing going on, something that many Autistic kids experience before eventual burnout. So yea. 100% believe she's Autistic In some way.
@@TheCosmicJester01 I didn't know that! I remember I had a friend years ago who was diagnosed as such and thats the term that was used then. I'll make sure to keep this in mind in the future thank you for letting me know! :)
Epic video, you can tell how much passion and effort goes into the analysis.
A little too much tbh. I need to hide under a rock . It's hard putting so much of yourself out into the world
@@HidinginPrivate nah man, for what you're doing it's a skill, not a detriment. It's hard finding genuine people on the internet, you're a breath of fresh air
This is an ultimate passion project… Your hard work and countless hours invested really are appreciated by us. Your sincere love for Persona 4 comes out not just in the quality and depth of the videos, but in your voice itself.
I love Naoto and Kanji most out of the P4G cast. Naoto… I initially read as a trans representation, but the more I learned of her through gameplay (and your super in depth analysis) the closer I felt to her. I relate SO much to her internal conflicts and feelings on acceptance, gender, sense of self- all of it. She is one of the most human characters in any game I’ve played. In Naoto I see myself, and in her social link there’s a kind of… hope for the future? For my own future.
I haven't finished the video yet but I like how you pick apart almost every line of dialogue to analyze Naoto's character.
Most people would only talk about her social link and that's it.
I also like that little bit where you talked about how the IT doesn't ever insult Naoto for how she dresses or how she speaks, that's pretty heartwarming.
Thanks and yeah I think it's heartwarming too. For a group who will basically make fun of eachother for anything, it's nice that no one ever even considers that as a thing. When she shows up after her dungeon they ask and Naoto says "I just feel more comfortable like this" and they're like "yeah alright" it's good stuff
Genuinely the best video on Naoto I've seen. Very well done.
something i dont think ive ever seen anyone talk about is that shadow naoto's design is clearly a reference to kikaider, a series about an android created with the ability to look, think and feel like a human, and his struggles with wanting to be percieved as human purely because humans hate robots, and his want for love and acceptance by those around him
I cover that in the full version of the P4 analysis in Naoto's section actually!
@@HidinginPrivate oh sick! the length is a bit intimidating for for me so obvs havent seen it yet, ill be sure to check it out if its got more stuff in it then!
These videos are too good! Really got me to fall in love with persona 4 all over again and replay it with a new perspective. The flowers for algernon parallel was super interesting too. Keep it up!
Naoto's my favourite character in the game, and the struggle she had to face with her identity was kind of similar to something I've faced when first reading about her story, and it made me feel better and help get over this struggle of mine (: .
Idk what that struggle was, but I'm glad you could conquer it. Naoto is also my favorite character in the game
My main issue with the “Naoto is just a poorly written trans character!” POV is and has always been that it’s a *Western* interpretation of a Japanese story. If you don’t understand Japanese societal/cultural norms and only try to look at her through the Western lens, I don’t think one can ever truly understand her character.
Great breakdown, as always.
Yes, the problem seems to be that some people think Japan is this politics free land of fun where these issues don't exist, and some people think Japan is lesser or morally wrong for conceptualizing these ideas differently. It requires a very nuanced look to make a judgement like that, which I was trying to provide.
You don't need to understand "japanese culture" for this, you only need basic understanding in general 💀
This is one of my favorite videos you've ever done, you really did her character justice. Keep it up, dude
Thank you, I gave it an earnest effort.
I love the research and work you put in these videos. Really adds more to a game and story I hold dear.
I'm glad to hear that. An unrestricted honest pursuit of the truth is exactly the sort of thing thematically that fits Persona 4. I don't want to avert my gaze haha
Great analysis, but if you wouldn't mind one extra tidbit that I'm sad often gets overlooked, it's that Naoto's dungeon is a dead ringer for showa era tokusatsu shows. Bad guys would have secret layers and various iterations would conduct themselves like illuminati style world changers with overly grandiose names, but the big thing is the operation. Often in older showa tokusatsu the bad guys would kidnap people and perform an operation to turn them into monsters (chained to the operating table and everything).
The very first Kamen Rider is probably the poster boy for this as he was kidnapped and forcibly turned into cyborg but escaped before his brainwashing was complete. A lot of Kamen Riders would borrow this general premises of humans forcibly operated on and transformed into cyborgs with the themes of the kamen riders and evil orgs all drawing their power from the same technology (by the heisei era the operation gimmick is phased out but the same technology theme generally stays). Somewhat similar to how Personas and Shadows are one in the same, but it's also very Japanese pop-culture iconography that I think got lost on western fans since these rarely survived the cross over into Power Rangers.
Her shadow's boss form is also a dead ringer for Kikaider, a somwhat-less-obscure-than-most one-shot tokusatsu characters whose whole deal was a robot with an incomplete conscious chip that makes him feel human. A robot stuck between two worlds is reflected in his design of half blue *(representing humanity) and half red (representing him as a machine) with the red side exposing his electronic brain. Shadow Naoto's design is also very similar in that one half is dressed normal and the other half is robotic with an exposed electronic brain. Which is just another duality theme in the end which you already cover.
Super Sentai and Kamen Rider is generally regarded as a little boys show, so the fact that she uses these iconographies to represent what she believes is her ideal self (the robot boss mid dungeon as you point out in the video essay) just adds more to her struggle with gender in her inner world. But all in all, I think it's just another statement on Naoto that she's repressing her childhood (and possible obsession with Super Sentai, given she correct Chie on her character archetype when put in the featherman costume) deep down in order to come off as more adult which the video covers.
Wether this is just the TV world being the TV world or really integral to Naoto I guess I'm not totally sure. All in all your video covers her perfectly and the extra material just reinforces whats already there. I'm just a tokusatsu nerd that was grinning from ear to ear over everything in Naoto's dungeon.
I actually talk about all of this as an added piece in the full Persona 4 analysis video I just dropped. I added like a 2minute segment about just this!
@@HidinginPrivate 2 minutes is better than no minutes, that's awesome! Just need to find a segment in time to watch it. These are awesome videos, and thank you!
Naoto is also a favourite of mine. You've put it into well into words.
I've not heard of Flowers for Algernon before, and it sure sounds like a good fit into the theme and mood here.
Glad you thought I put things into words well here. The flowers of algernon bit was the discovery I was most excited to share.
The bird logo in Naoto's dungeon could also be a nod to Shocker from 1971's Kamen Rider. Shocker had many secret bases similar to the dungeon, often in remote areas.
She also dresses similarly to Robot Detective K. (the coat and flat cap outfit) and her dungeon boss has a face that is grey with a yellow eye on one side, also like K. The half & half design is also very similar to Kikaider.
i like how you cover the polarities and stuff. it really helps with my understanding of the characters associated with that tarot
Thanks! I'm by no means an expert, I just researched and tried to find correlations!
Pog video as always.
I’m grateful to hear your research and opinions on all these characters. Humans in reality are so complex, and I’ve felt it may be uncanny to also see such complexity in fiction beyond explicitly stated motivations and traits. Me and a friend have really enjoyed discussing the characters in these games from our own view and from others that we’ve seen. Knowing he and I will have more to chat about gives me something fun to look forward too. Thanks!
Naoto is a favorite of mine and I appreciate her a ton now. Thanks for such a fun series man
naoto is by far one of the most popular characters from the game, i mean how can you not love her, and also amazing that just like Chie's segment this was also uploaded on Shirogane Sunday, happy coincidence, great video, just it's so well done and so amazing that you could cover so much about her, i appreciate this a lot :-)
Actually fun fact, the first day you can start Naoto's dungeon is September 17th, the same day I uploaded this haha. I'm glad you liked the video, she's my favorite.
I know why people think Naoto is trans, but as a woman, I don't really think it was that. Online, when I join communities, I don't tell people my gender, and I let them assume I am male, because a lot of people tend to treat women worse. I don't hate myself or my body, but I would struggle to be looked at or treated the same way if people saw me as a woman. Obviously I can't hide my gender irl, but sometimes I wish I could. I get tired of being harassed.
I have a friend who is trans and she was wondering how in the world people thought naoto is trans 😂
Short note: when «otoko no ko» is mentioned, it refears to «男の娘» instead of «男の子» (both «otoko no ko»). Otoko no ko means «male child» when written «男の子», where «子» (ko) means «child» (not gendered), but «娘» (ko) means «female child», and that's where the concept changes.
There's this thing of using «娘» in male concepts to make them look like boyish girls, like «撲っ娘» (bokukko) for girls that use «boku» (male «I/me») and «俺っ娘» for those who use «ore» (another male «I/me»).
I'm pretty sure of my statements, but if any error's found, feel free to say so.
I don't think we can definitively say what Naoto's feelings are towards Kanji because it's plainly obvious that she simply isn't aware of his feelings towards her. This is apparent both from her internal dialogue in Arena and her comments in Golden, such as when Kanji gets flustered seeing her in a skirt and Naoto responds with "*sigh* Come now, Kanji don't force yourself. A tough guy like you, pretending to get all weak in the knees over me is beyond the pale."
And even with Yosuke and Yu, most of the times where she gets flustered isn't due to flirting. It's when she feels diminished, like when Yosuke teases her over not being able to help during exams, when Yu makes her feel like a child during her Social Link, or when she assumes the group isn't taking her seriously during the field trip. She has a similar issue with her own grandfather reminding her that she is, in fact, still a child.
To be honest, I don't think Naoto has a conscious interest in anyone. She herself states that she has no time or care for such things and only starts to show an interest in Yu after he shows an interest in her...and even then, the player has to be *really* pushy about it. If it weren't for the fact that all player romances are valid, I'd honestly suspect that Naoto wasn't in love with Yu at all and more in love with the idea of being loved and accepted, similar to Ai, who showcases a lot of the same unhealthy behavior in the false lover's path.
Nice job on covering Naoto's gender issues...I feel like the reason people have issues with her conflict with her shadow is because they view it as a rejection of transgenderism as a whole. They think Naoto's acceptance of her gender is a denial of transgenderism and that transgenderism is just "lying to yourself". If you assume that transgenderism is the focus here, then it's easy to understand why people come to this conclusion, but transgenderism really isn't the theme at all and that's not the message they're trying to get across.
Honestly, out of all the characters, I think Naoto is the hardest to properly localize from a Japanese perspective to a Western perspective. Even in a modern time period, LGBT issues just don't get the same cultural focus in Japan that it does in the west. And aside from that, I think Naoto's romance path transitioned well into western culture, which is probably (partly) why it comes across as so unhealthy to western fans. From what I can tell, her romance was localized well, but there's just a massive cultural barrier that makes Yu's behavior come across as creepy or predatory when it isn't meant to be.
I understand this was posted a year ago, but this is one of the greatest takes I’ve seen EVER on Naoto, I’m a hardcore Naoto fan and seeing a lot of people who TRULY understand her character makes me very happy. Especially the section regarding how Naoto most likely isn’t actually in love with anyone at all throughout the entire story. Because you have to think, Naoto grew up never really having experiences of love like that, since she had no friends growing up, so I definitely feel like she doesn’t truly understand the feeling of love. But likes the idea of being loved, because it’s entirely factual to say she only shows interest in you because you show it in her. Naoto is a character who has completely stolen my heart, so seeing true solders out here fighting the good fight along side me makes me much more optimistic about people’s general view of her character. I honestly think if they remake P4 (which they most likely will within the next decade….hopefully) they’ll probably change some stuff around with her social link or give her significantly more screen time so players get to know her a lot more. That or they could add a character, maybe even a new member for the investigation team also who is just her canon boyfriend in the story, perhaps they both share a social link together like the two athletes for the strength arcana, so you hang out with both of them. Then as it progresses the two start to express their love for one another, I do hate the idea of stealing away peoples chance at romancing her though. But I think they could get away with still letting us see the romance scenes between Naoto and this new male character throughout the story, the one thing I see this being a problem with also is this just creates a love triangle also, which may come off as unoriginal or as a bad thing. Since Kanji would like Naoto, Naoto would like this new guy, and then the new guy would also like Naoto. But I ultimately think it could be for the best, plus adding a new character also means a new dungeon, so even more gameplay. I think it’s an interesting idea, definitely open to other’s opinions on it, especially since to the best of my knowledge there hasn’t been an official couple on any team in a Persona game, so it’s something new also.
That is such a pretty thumbnail, a lot of work and ambition clearly has went into making this
Thank you. Sorry I changed it, I really want more people to see it but I liked the thumbnail too
Wonderful analysis as always! Hopped on this train recently and I really appreciate all the insight. Your interpretation of the dialogue options that I always see people having a problem with mirrors some thoughts I've had about them but hadn't actualized in my head.
With the thing about voice pitch, though, while tailoring herself to someone who accepts her regardless seems very obvious to me now, I actually had a slightly different angle on it.
I interpreted it more based on the fact that "I like it higher" gives Bond Points, which lead me to believe that Naoto actually is wanting to speak with her natural, higher pitch but needs a helpful push to switch. Her awkward response to "Whichever you prefer" made me think her plan for you give her the push fails in this instance. Of course, the points could also just stem from you playing along with her own desire to indulge your preferences.
Anyway, as with the others, the detailed analysis of historical context and Japanese mythology provided enjoyable insight into things that I probably never would have researched on my own time, but gave me a greater appreciation for the story and characters that I love!
Had to go back to this video because there's a new one ignoring half the points made here...
This may just be me but the most striking moments of Naoto for me was the potential Social Link botching you talked about, and her suggestion to throw Namatame into the TV. You already said pretty much everything I could about the first thing, but the second is something I need to address. I'm not going to give her too much crap considering all signs pointed to Namatame being the killer and likely going to get away with it, but for someone as level-headed as her to suggest straight up killing a man was a holy shit moment like few else, especially considering how on board Yosuke and Kanji were with it. Not to mention some concerning bits about her personas that foreshadow this scene. Her original persona, Sukuna-Hikona, was a straight up villain in Devil Summoner, wanting to destroy the capital for a great injustice. Her Ultimate Persona, Yamato-Takeru, murdered his own brother, terrified his own father, and spent a good bit of his life fighting wars by said father. Not to mention she specializes in Almighty Damage and INSTANT DEATH SPELLS, especially pre Golden. Not to say she would've ended up like Adachi, but starting to think the investigation team really did the police force a favor by giving her the support group she needed so much.
The murderous intent of police work coming for new recruits
I always like the effort you put into the editing of this video series, an underrated aspect.
Well it sure takes a while haha
The Algernon section of the video fucking broke me......
Glad you liked it. It was the most surprising discovery for me too researching the video if I'm honest. Glad you liked it. I actually teared up recording that part too haha
That was amazingly well done, I cant wait for the full version of the combined analysis later on!
Thanks! Hope to finish it soon prob next minth
holy hell this is one insanely impressive analysis, awesome work.
Best character in the series IMO, and best choice for the MC's love interest.
SO EXCITED FOR THIS ONE!! The editing has only gotten better, and I'm excited for future projects by you.
I saw the previous video and I know you're considering making this your last harrah...please don't. Your content genuinely makes my day and makes me think so critically of an IP that has saved my life in a few ways.
No matter what, you're an inspiration. Thanks for your analysis.
Thanks. Well I appreciate the kind words. I'd like to keep doing my best wherever possible. I want ot continue doing thinks sometimes I just feel hopeless and discouraged. Hope you enjoyed the video
Noooo i never made that connection that her gun was named algernon 😭😭😭 that book had me crying for days dawg, i cant
i don't like those "I don't care what the creators say, Naoto IS a trans boy, stop misgendering him, this headcanon keeps me going, I know this is true because I see myself in him!" people
I get how they feel but at the same time even if you're trans you don't get to decide if another person is trans or not. It's up that individual to decide.
Granted were talking about a fictional character here but the point still stands.
@@NiohArcadia ehhh kinda a stretch to call naoto trans. Anyone saying she is, didnt pay attention to the story or have a lack of understanding.
Naoto should've made more of an effort to watch "Murder she wrote". Now that's a great representation of a strong female detective. And mind you Angela Lansbury did that when she was now a senior citizen, so to accomplish as much as her character did really puts into perspective that it's not about age or gender. It's about having the knowledge and drive to succeed in the field you're in.
It always nice to learn more about one of my favorite characters of all time. I never knew about the French article or the reference to Naoto's ultimate weapon! I gotta check that book out!
Hiding back at it with the best hour I'll spend on TH-cam today.
Yoooo
Thank you for putting into words why she's my favorite Social Link in the game
Absolutey, thanks for watching it
Hiding-kun, I cannot properly express with words how well done this is. This analysis is just incredible- the amount of thought and detail put into absolutely everything and to hear someone finally put it all into words was just amazing. Keep doing what you’re doing man.
"...because I am based and I love androgyny."
Hell yeah, brother.
"...reminds me of Skypeia."
HELL YEAH, BROTHER!
Woooo
I have to say as someone who loves P4 since 2009 I've been thoroughly impressed with your video series. You've even caught some things I haven't (like the text on the minister or the weapon being a reference to her story. Such an excellent catch and those things are depressing, it really drives home how lonely Naoto is feeling).
I think Naoto's story on her gender identity and how she won't be taken seriously as a woman is even that (if at all) outdated, even by today's standards in Japan. Just in 2018 there was this huge scandal about how exams of women who wanted to become a doctor were rigged by several universities because "they didn't want too many women in that profession". In 2018. That was 10 years after(!!!) P4's initial release. It's sad when people think that's outdated. I do get that they might be upset because of the imagery with the surgery, but if the surgery is a reference to a whole other story than that explains it at least why they went there.
Also your love for the character really came through to the video. I'll give you a little extra you might not have caught by the design book in reference to Naoto's evolved Personas. Their design is leaned on the protagonist of "The Roses of Versailles", Oscar, a very famous shoujo manga where the heroine is raised like a boy and becomes a soldier. You can esp see it with Yamato sumeragi with golden locks and red uniform, which is a bit more iconic look.
But anyways, great work!
Absolutely fantastic, there's no other way to say it.
I am so baffled by just how much effort and care is in every single video of yours!
Hope you're doing great☆ ^^
I absolutely love the way you covered the gender identity in this episode. I think it was handled very professionally as are all of your other episodes but this one took some finesse I don’t think most creators have the talent to tackle. 💜
I finally finished playing 4 golden and it’s great finally watching your videos on it. You analysis on it gave me a new perspective. Great job on the video!
A beautiful analysis. It really hits home a lot more than I thought it would. When I first encountered her in game I knew she’d end up being my favorite. And having experiencing the whole game there was no one else it could be. And then having watched this too, it just feels complete. Thank you, truly.
Such a fantastic character, easily my favourite of the Investigation Team, along with Kanji. Your discussion of Naoto's gender was really interesting, and really helps break down the related yet distinct differences between sex, gender, and gender expression.
I've never bought into the 'Naoto is Trans' theory myself, though I do sympathise with those who earnestly hold to that theory. Despite Atlus writing two really great non-conforming characters in Naoto and Kanji, it can't be denied that there's still work to be done in positive representation on LGBTQ+ characters in the series. They definitely do better with Naoto than Kanji, as you said, it's really heart-warming how the IT really don't mind however Naoto presents, whereas Kanji never quite shakes off scepticism from some members of the IT.
In future games, I do hope they consider implementing a trans or non-binary character in the narrative, either as a party member or social link. They almost did it with Lala-chan, but then went and made the investigative reporter the focus instead. To say nothing of adding a same-sex romance into the game, but maybe I'm asking for too much.
Naoto is my favorite as well, along w/ Kanji. I'm glad it could break down a fuller context for the character and that you found it interesting. I wanted to give it the time to breathe without it consuming the video and hope it came across.
Yeah them not treating her differently for the dress and vocabulary is really nice i think. Naoto being Trans never crossed my mind on my first playthrough way back when, but the more i replayed and the more cultural understanding changed as well as my own information on the subject I was able to see where people were coming from, although it always seemed to omit something. My biggest problem with the debate from both sides is the insistence that anyone has any idea what they are talking about lmao. There is so much cultural and historical context to consider, so much nuance. People flatly claiming "Naoto is a girl" ignores any allegorical interpretation, which is if anything, fundamental to Persona's identity as a series, and stating angrily that ATLUS was Transphobic in their depiction also shows a sort of racist western exceptionalism bc it is never paired with understanding of actual cultural context. Trying to bridge that gap was hard.
In future games I also hope they have more explicitly queer characters, although I also would like ot keep more subtle representation as well, like with Kanji.
Very impressive video. I'm always wary and have gotten into the habit of staying away from video essays that discuss Naoto (and Kanji) because they usually tend to be skewed in just one direction, but quite a few people I follow on twitter really liked this video so I decided to watch. It's nice to see the LGBQT+ parts in p4 acknowledged, even if that wasn't what the game was going for, and how you made part of Naoto's journey (the sections around 20:30) connect to LGBQT+ themes and how that was a positive. Naoto isn't trans and that was never the objective, but it's so easy to see why trans people would relate to that part of her story. Overall, I think gender is a more minor part of her journey, it's still important but people tend to blow it out of proportion (and ironically I hc Naoto as nb after reading the PxDN LN lol)
I think you had some good points about the "I'm glad you're a girl" line, but I think the timing of it is really really really bad. Same with the "I like your voice higher." I think if the line was changed to "Higher is also good" or something along those lines I'd be ok with it, but in that context it feels like Naoto is trying to change herself to tailor herself to the protagonist, which I really don't like. I want Naoto to be comfortable with herself and not to have to worry about pleasing me/the player. Also a bit sad you didn't do an analysis about Naoto's friendship rank 10 as I adore her rank 10. It's more satisfying to me as she confidently vows to become a formidable female detective.
I'm happy to read this. I am also wary of watching videos similarly for similar reasons (someone on my twitter actually said the same thing you did as well)
Yeah I think that the "higher" line is mainly incompetence on the translating staff at the time. The actual change is in using the pronoun Boku instead of Watashi, which are not gendered, but instead describe a type of person. So like, young boys or youthful middle/early highschool boys or anyone who fits that kind of look goes by Boku, while highschool more muscular or blatantly masculine boys who are not quite business professionals, maybe college age as well might go by Ore, then Watashi is a gender neutral term used for business professional adult men, and all ages of women. Same thing with identifiers like chan, kun, san etc. San is general and professional, chan is kinda like cute girls, endearing female friendships etc, and kun is adolescent masculine boys. Since these terms are based around aesthetics and not gendered, many women and men use all of such as they feel fit how they look to others. Naoto uses Boku in the game, and people like Yukiko, Yosuke, etc refer ot Naoto as Naoto-kun, so in the japanese it's about Naoto choosing to self describe by a gender neutral adult term Watashi which also more explicitly refers to women, instead of using the boku from before. This is a hard concept to explain easily in translation casually (and many people mistakenly misrepresent boku in Naoto discussions still) but this is what the scene was initially about. I think the higher voice thing was creative in getting across the meaning but it lacks a lot of the context which is why I interpretted the line as is. Maybe I should have included this in the video lmao. Well I can always include it in the full version, anyway hopoe that gives some better context.
Yeah, I should address the friendship end as well for sure. I'll try to add that to the full video. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you gave the video a chance! This is my full time job and it doesn't pay much haha so I appreciate you giving me the chance
@@HidinginPrivate I totally get the Boku/Watashi stuff and I'm actually really impressed with what the localization team came up as a substitute for it as it's a pretty damn good way to get a similar point across. I've been doing mini deep dives into the localization of P4 and p5 and uhhh well, I'll look forward to the Adachi video cause they did some intresting stuff with him.... Still need to watch your Chie video, (i've been watching your stuff intermidly, did you go into Chie's use of "Atashi" out of curosity?)
Also wondered if you've looked at other games and stuff for Naoto? There's a really good scene in Q where Naoto reflects on herself and how Mitsuru caused her to reflect on herself.
I've been looking forward to this one and of course it's the one i miss on release. Great job as always. Other people have mentioned this as well but there's a clear development in your editing along the length of the series and it really came forward in this one. I think Naoto is one of the two best crafted characters in the game and you did a great job covering her.
Naoto is for sure my favorite character in the game, I wish it was possible to get her in your party much sooner though.
Been watching these as I make dinner, one night at a time, for months. So impressive and always a great watch!
I never caught that Naoto had a gun called Algernon, this parallel honestly makes me appreciate her character arc more.
I wanted to watch your videos as they came out, but since work starts in a few minutes so all I could really do is leave quick compliments or my thoughts of the characters prior to watching the video.
But some things I want to say:
-I always thought if had Naoto successfully transitioned, Naoto's life would have been full of discrimination. If female members are already looked down on by japanese police, how much more for a "fake" man? You went so much more into detail than what I could say, even empathizing with those who hold the opposing view point that it's pretty impressive honestly.
-Naoto constantly putting up walls around herself and always putting herself to an unattainable standard has always been both admirable yet tragic, and man did you express that insanely well by covering that Algernon reference.
-You pointing out that Yosuke or the gang in general fully accepting Naoto and how they don't tease her for the way she dresses or behaves reinforces what I love about P4: that the group feels the most cohesive of main persona games. They have fun moments, poke fun at each other but stepping out of bounds are few and frowned upon, or receive consequences.
-I've also appreciated the arcana coverages, seeing how much characters align with their respective arcanas just further reinforces how well written the characters are.
All that being said, I can't wait for Best Incel's video.
Based on this series, I'm sure you'll have a lot to say about him.
I'm surprised you didn't cover anything regarding the TV show nature of her midnight Channel as you did with the others. If anything I often felt a kind of tokusatsu feeling to the dungeon, the secret base armed with a 70s style robot weapons.
I added the tokusatsu but in the full version of this. It's the most recent channel upload
Great video as always hope you are doing better and know that there are a lot of people who enjoy these videos hope they blow up soon in a major way and bring in as many people as possible
well I'm trucking along atleast. I hope they get more successful as well (as my financial independence depends on it lmao)
Another great analysis vid by Hiding-kun! And we've finally reached one of my favorite characters 😍. I know u have been having doubts abt this project, just know it's impressive how you reveal how Japanese culture is tied together with the characters, how it changed the way I see some of them (Rise and Yukiko specifically.) Keep it up, bro!
yeah I was most anxious of this segment than any other. I'm glad it came across well and that you liked the stuff I put forward across the different segments. I'll try!
Thank you for the great work! Glad to see you went with the flowery thumbnail in the end. So excited about the video
I'm not overly concerned about it blowing up by itself so I figured I'd go with my gut. Hope you find it satisfying.
I love Naoto and her dungeon because of just how complex her personal story and said dungeon are.
Awesome video. Naoto’s one of my favs and I really appreciate your analysis!
I also love Naoto. Thanks for supporting!
Thank you for the great work! I’ve been waiting for this!
Hope you enjoy it!
so, I saw a random tweet regarding how Naoto Shirogane is a walking Tokusatsu reference.
this is the moment where I realized that Naoto is best girl now. (sorry marie)
i was making my exams today while listening to this. And i need to say, thank you so much for your video's man.
you genuinely helped me out so much there. I had trouble focusing and doing work because i was super bored haha. And out of nowwhere this video started playing, never have i woken up so quickly before lmao. Really got my sleepy ass to work
Naoto is one of my favs from P4. I was bummed that I couldn’t finish her social link on my first play through. I’ll have to try next time around.
Best luck! I really like Naoto but yeah if you're not doing Marie and don't focus on her heavily it can take a but of work
@@HidinginPrivateis it possible to do all social links, fishing, catching bugs and leveling up intelligence etc in one playthrough?
Thank you for this man and I hope you are having a good day.
I'm feeling quite anxious honestly but I'm glad it's out
i've been waiting for this!
an hour and ten mins, i can tell it's gonna be great.
It's certainly gonna take some time to consume
ayy best girl! Can't wait to watch it.
Hope you enjoy
Really insightful reading of Naoto's social link, especially rank 10, which I honestly hated when I played it, lol
Enjoyed this a lot!
Thanks. Yeah I didn't like it either on a first go, but I just had to really focus in on the game itself and what they could be trying to say abt her character with it
47:00 This was written and orchestrated by her grandfather, wasn't it?
50:30 - 56:50 - 1:07:50 Yeah, that's the part I relate to.
I just feel really bad for Naoto and what had to happen to her character's reception outside of the game.
I really and honestly don't know how to talk about it myself. This is honestly because no one understood me and my interests and treated me like both a fantastical and dreaming kid and a responsible and professional adult and just pushed and shoved me back and forth, from abuse from my entire school system to just not having anyone to guide me through the internet when I first got my tablet and first went onto TH-cam. No one understood why I'm so adamant in defending the intellectual commentaries and the overall writing and animation of a variety of animated shows, games, movies, and being so fascinated by them while criticizing several of the shows, movies, and games that others, including my own family, seem to otherwise just enjoy.
I despise war and violence and just pure nihilism and cynicism to the point where I have a nihilistic and cynical worldview of the concepts themselves and rather hang on to the meaning in the positive messages of my favorite works.
I don't know how else to describe how both different I am from Naoto and just how much I relate to her feelings whilst having radically different circumstances aside from just separating them into, for now, 4 levels.
The first level is my school, and as an extension of that, society's rejection of my own sense of self and my own worldview of the world is shattered once again.
The second is the horrifically mismatched Backrooms/SCP Foundation/Existential horror-like interpretation of cyber-world, which once again, is another interpretation of the real world and how I had to pull and build my own sense of self together because it was routinely shattered and killed off as I, either voluntarily or unvoluntarily, dove deeper and deeper into learning more and more about the real world, to the point where there are some days when I just feel stressed out and hopeless and depressed from both of the prior two levels in which I try to understand and input the real world but the more I find out, the more I'm disappointed, underwhelmed and overwhelmed, and just being pulled in so many different directions to getting so many questions and answers.
The third point is connected to the second level pulling in all of the positive and negative things and trying to organize them neatly into an inner world. This is essentially the processing factory of the entire thing, as it gets into the innermost world, the fourth level.
The fourth level is the inner world, and this is where the world finally makes sense until level one starts to send somethings through level 2 that needs to be understood and finally processed it into the fourth level, where everything finally makes sense and is stable.
Okay, nvm, I probably don't know what I'm talking about. So, just take away from this as me trying to say something on her because I just don't know what to say. Yeah, you know what, trash this concept.
That thumbnail looks something completely out of madoka, kinda fitting the more I think about it
Haha thanks, it's certainly more artsy
I was worried that (like a lot of videos on the subject) you would be unwilling to remove your personal bias on the subject and speak from an unbiased perspective of the subject, so I'm pleasantly surprised to see you do exactly that in an extremely tactful way. I was almost going to skip this video due to how toxic discussions on this particular character's identity quickly become -- how judgemental they are, and how much they frame either side of the conversation -- so I'm glad I can say, only 30 minutes in, that you've already layed a groundwork that can make me trust your arguments, and assures me that you aren't speaking from some bias, or 'for-or-against' a particular pre-conception of the narrative.
Moreso than even research, it takes a serious amount of honesty to tackle a subject like this one, and I hope other people can appreciate that quality in your work more so than ever.
Translator's note: HE 👏 DON'T 👏 MISS 👏😭
Thank you Novac. This did take a lot of work, and my #1 priority was to try and understand the issue as fully as I could. I'm glad you didn't skip the video and were happy with how it came out. I appreciate that
i love this series, i love your analysis, and i love how truly well written this game is. however, one thing that strikes me as odd, as someone who reads tarot and studies astrology, is why the writers made naoto a taurus when she is written like a virgo. there are very few connections i can see between her in-game arcana and her sign. while taurus is represented on the wheel of fortune on the commonly used rider waite deck, and is considered one of the feminine polarities on it, i don't see very many connections between these two things beyond this. it would make more sense for her to be a virgo, ruled by mercury, rather than the venus-ruled taurus. venus, which is the planet of love, is also the planet of ethics- justice and truth being naoto's main driver. but, even then, taurus is considered the sensual, physical aspect of venus, rather than the ethical, abstract side of it, which is firmly in the domain of libra- another sign that would be more fitting to her character. to me, it would make naoto a great foil to rise if she did represent the other half of mercury, with rise being gemini and naoto being virgo. mercury is the planet of connection and communication, quick thinking, and efficiency- all of which are central to naoto's character. mercury is an androgynous planet as well. the mind and how one thinks has no bearing on whether someone was born male or female or how they represent. virgo is the maiden of the zodiac- a young woman who is chaste and dedicated to service. virgo is also represented by the major arcana card the hermit, which is the card right before naoto's in-game arcana, the wheel- her being sandwiched between herself and what she strives for. I'm sure there's someone out there who can give a justification for this kind of lesser aspect of her character, and truly i would love to hear it! but everyone on the investigation team's zodiac sign makes some level of sense to me except for naoto's. sorry if this is long and silly and not what people are interested in, but i'm gonna put my two cents in on a character i admire a lot!!
Naoto is so scared to show weakness, but she is the only one who simply doesnt have one.
You work is just amazing!
I absolutely adore this analysis, you did a phenomenal job picking apart every aspect of her character and you spoke about the controversy quite tastefully. Naoto is such an amazing character and its sad that her amazing writing is often smothered by all the arguments about her identity. I feel that people often forget this game was made years ago, and that western gender norms/ roles are much different then those in Japan, so there is so much room for misinterpretation of what her character was meant to portray.
1:04:15 You forgot to mention that if you ask her to use the lighter voice. You get to see her try on her woman's version of the school outfit the next time you meet her. Good video.
Thanks yeah, ig I just didn't see it as narratively adding much that the voice part didn't. But I should have included it atleast offhand especially considering how many small details i include haha
Nothing can beat your analysis of Persona 4. Nothing.
❤️💕
Excellent analysis! You can really tell Naoto's your favourite just by the editing and lenght. I had no idea a simple weapon called Algernon had so much lore and inspiration behind it, let alone you could find it in the game. The book sounds really interesting, if I ever come across it I'll be sure to pick it up!