Breakdown of The Dominion-Borg War (Animated)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- This is the wanted Dominion-Borg War..
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They send one cube to assimilate. If it gets beat, they know they have a worthy civilization to go after, so they send another cube to push the civilization to develop to develop more tech that they will some day assimilate. Their version of winning is not to destroy, but to basically farm us for better and better tech.
Yes, exactly.
The Federation was never at risk of being assimilated/destroyed by the Borgs as they were bound to be wiped, 10yrs after Picard met them, by species 8472, and Q knew it.
What Q wanted was for Picard to understand the Borgs, so that he could one day work with them, and for Janeway to save them, so that there would still be Borgs to work with.
The knowledge used by the doctor to create his biologic weapon against 8472 was acquired due to Q's involvement, otherwise Voyager's crew would have had no records of the Borgs except for the disconnected colony.
Instead they got there with the results of years of studies by the best scientifics of all the worlds of the Federation, more than enough to do what had to be done.
These records influenced Janeway's decision to attempt to work with them, she speci
You're forgetting that Janeway is back in the alpha quadrant in this period. Just give her a runabout and a couple of phasers and she'll take down that Borg cube no probs!
Or give an STO player character a Delta Flier and their choice of weaponry and they'll solo the cube without breaking a sweat.
Don't forget transphasic torpedoes
Lmfao
@@stavinaircaeruleum2275 LMAO I read it as "transphobic" torpedoes.
@@VestedUTuber I'll pass on the whole Delta Flyer idea and just go with a Galaxy class prototype that can go toe to toe with the borg using it's own technology against it.
Given the cube's ability for automated repair, I am more inclined to believe they would attempt an all-out assault on the cube rather than attacking in waves.
I agree. It would be a war of attrition. The borg's ability to self-repair versus the combined fleets would win over time... unless the borg have a limit on what-ever they'd need. To reach that assumed limit would be "costly".
INHO, the borg would initially send one cube as a 'reconnaissance'.
I wonder what affect something exiting warp IN the cube would do? Timing and aiming would be a challenge.
@@brianj.841 The show indicates accuracy of exiting warp is high (battle fleets travelling together, Picard maneuver) but I think it has shown that objects at warp can't travel through objects. If the show took the approach that objects at warp could pass through other objects then come to a stop inside, I would expect them to be fused similar to transporter accidents, not an explosion from 2 objects occupying the same space.
It does create an interesting battle tactic - a massive number of autonomous objects consisting of just a warp core passing through the area the enemy ship is located, exploding on impact with off the charts energy (from momentum), or circling for another pass if it misses... but that would make battle scenes boring (no beam weapons, just lots of autonomous objects travelling at warp speed until they run into something).
@@1SCme I suspect such physical torpedoes would be expensive. As for cinematic tension, no worse than WW2 naval.
@@brianj.841 Could be recoverable if they don't make contact, warp engines can come in smaller packages (shuttles, torpedo in Voyager, I think the Romulans have a warp capable torpedo), they're a lot cheaper than a warship. A thumbnail calc would indicate it is millions of time more powerful than a beam weapon - you would expect that 1 strike would obliterate a targeted ship.
@@1SCme True.
You may not be a millionaire Lore, however you managed to create a Federation starship fleet better than in Picard season 1. Man, let's start a petition to get you Kurtzman's job. Great work, as always 😉🖖
Wasnt it German trekkie?
Excellent work! (12 January 2021)
Ah hah.. the USS Cerritos and a Mcmahon class ship? Very clever
I strongly believe that a battle would not be drawn out into multiple engagements. Even with upgraded technology, the Federation fleet cannot match the repair and recovery rate of the Borg. Thus by breaking the engagement into multiple sections, you keep attacking an almost full power borg cube. Also, we have seen multiple instances where cubes have delayed engaging the enemy to go into recovery mode.
A better strategy is to utilise the wealth of knowledge of borg ship anatomy with the new weapons. Instead of surrounding the cube, the alliance fleet would most likely have a combined front where they would attempt to knock out a singular shield generator. This would allow them to beam torpedos into the critical locations on the cube. Even if the Borg saves some of its critical components to continue the fight, the damage would be too severe. Another strategy would be to approach a Borg ship in it's damaged/recovery mode with an old undesirable ship and quickly beam aboard explosives. The knowledge the federation has on Borg layout is their biggest weakness.
The battle of sector 001 (first contact ) was
Also a forgotten technique is to lure a cube into a transwarp hole, and then detonate a charge inside to destabilize it thus destroying any ships inside it which get spewed out in the other end as spinning junk debris
I think in TNG FC the starships mobbed the cube ever which way but loose with a monster whiplash several times and preventing and slow the Borg cube down and changing shield nutations constantly making it not to go to warp
Can't say I could help you a lot Lore, but I would be all in to see you dive into animations. It would bring these hypothetical battles to a whole new level.
ahhh the Zapp Brannigan strategy: use their own preset kill limits against them...
Is it weird that I read part of that in Zaps voice?
Kiff - have the boy lay out my Borg shorts.
@@olyrhys8724 whos the boy?
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongey and bruised."
@@aredub1847 You! You're the boy!
A major issue to consider: Federation's destroyed top-notch ships as a source of technology for reverse-engineering/tactical analysis for the Deminion
Man if Janeway doesnt show up for no other reason but for a quick quip and wipe out a wing of cubes I'd be disappointed. Also great job as always, cant wait to see what else you cook up.
The Admiralty would tell her no more coffee til the Borg are gone.
@@khartog01 "Orders from Starfleet HQ. The replicators cannot make coffee until the Borg are defeated."
"You have awoken a sleeping giant..."
I think the most interesting area of this story arch would be how the federation alliance handles suddenly becoming the guarantors of Cardassia’s independence as needing to protect them from the Borg. Especially as the Cardassians become increasingly frustrated with their status as the Federations ward and having updated shields and weapons kept from them due to the previous hostilities.
I’d also be interested to see if the Jem-hada (or however its spelt) can become drones or if their addiction to ketamine white would just kill them after a little while or the Borg would decide their addiction disqualifies them as potential Borg.
Ketamine White would be an interesting drug. The Jem Hadar be flipping out and killing the Vortas and Founders.
For my Star Trek Online Liberated Borg character, I had the Borg actually 'raiding' the Dominion. The Borg analyzed a full invasion would cost too much until enough adaptation could take place. How they got to this point is the Borg started to have 'officer' Borg to allow more creative thinking. Jemhadar breading sites, Dominion tech sites, Vorta cloning sites, and a few others were randomly attacked and assimilated, but the Borg left with what they got. The Federation, Klingons, and a Romulan faction sent ships to help advise the Dominion, but fortunately for them the Borg attacks seemed to be ending.
A few years before this, my character was assimilated from a pre cadet field trip, along with other Starfleet personal and pre cadets on their ship, a Klingon ship that was stalking them, and the Romulans onboard the Borg enhanced ship whose mayday after an accident brought everyone together.
One Borg cube in the Dominion space had several of the drones from that incident onboard, and was disabled during a battle with the Jemhadar, but not disabled by them. The Dominion never told the others what was going on in that system. The 'officer' drones, freed from the collective for a brief moment, instantly liberated the cube and called for rescue. My character can only recall from the last moments before being liberated that the Dominion had obtained some very advance technology from an ancient race, and it must have drawn something else to it that managed to disable the cube before reclaiming the tech. All Dominion ships were destroyed. Liberated Borg characters now went to each faction for the game. A small hint of the Iconians was missed.
At the first encounter they lost but "softened" the Borg cube. By the time the Borg encounter them the second time they would have adapted and the "softened" cube would have repaired itself and made improvements.
Wow lore. You actually did it. This looks very impressive and can say that you've put a lot of effort. Thanks for putting all of this effort into a video for us.
As far as I know German trekkie made the animation though
The thing is though: This is only one cube. We know that the Borg, while often stupid enough to think one will do the trick, could most possibly send a fleet of cubes. Talking 50-100 cubes.
Then it really is game over for the Dominion. They would never be able to produce enough ships and Jem Hadar to kill all of the Borg, even with allied support.
That was my thought too. However, as you alluded to, in the shows/films we only ever see the Borg attack the UFP with one cube at a time, this being despite the vast fleets we see in Voyager. Thus it may be the case that the Borg have some unexplained but logical reason to operate in the manner that they do. For example, their existing territory and surrounding space in the Delta Quadrant may provide them with sufficient resources to make a large scale invasion of the Alpha, Beta or Gamma Quadrants insufficiently profitable. Or maybe the Borg aren't in fact as powerful as they appear and are more like WW2 era Germany and Japan, seemingly extremely advanced militaries capable of tactically overwhelming their enemies but lacking the necessary logistical and strategic strength to win a war. Or possibly they just don't care enough to commit more, after all their stated goal is to add to their Collective not to conquer new territory and resources. Then again they may just be stupid.
though, the dominion do seem to have an advantage there. The Borg do not birth/breed/produce more drones, they only get them from assimilation (except the borg nursery in Q-who and the episode "one" from Voyager which was an accident of seven's nanoprobes. The former of which we never saw them do again and seven specifically said "the borg do not resproduce, which is contradicted by Q-who- unelss they assmiliated a baby) The dominion can produce as many Jem'Hadar and Vorta as they want, though it wasn't enough to win the dominion war.
@@thesnare100 my understanding of the scene in Q-who was that it was Starfleet misinterpreting a Borg maturation chamber, like the Voyager episode with the assimilated children, as a nursery, as they didn't yet know about assimilation. Also, during the Dominion War the Dominion forces were cut of from their logical base in the Gamma Quadran leaving them only the resources of the Cardassians (famously resource poor), Breen (joined war late) , conquered UFP territory (unreliable, vulnerable and likely prone to sabotage) and what they could bring through the wormhole early on and yet they still almost won, that suggests a frankly terrifying military industrial capacity.
There is a theory that since the Federation is so resourceful in finding ways to defeat them, that the Borg do not mass invade so that they can learn from the Federations tactics thereby improve upon themselves even if they lose a cube every time.
Once the Federation finally succumbs to a single cube, the Borg will have gotten everything they could possibly learn from humans and will come out better than if they just assimilated from the start.
@@WizelBalan Now THAT is one good theory. Never thought about it that way.
First, this isn't a 'war' between the Dominion and the Borg. It's a war between the entire alpha, beta, and gamma quadrants and the Borg, so your premise of a Dominion-Borg war isn't represented here. That said, I personally think the Borg would mop the floor with the Dominion. They didn't declare war on earth and one cube nearly wiped us out. Twice. The only 'war' the Borg ever fought was against species 8472. Everything else was just steps taken to assimilate other species and technologies. If they thought of it as an actual war, they wouldn't send just ONE cube. They'd send a dozen tactical cubes with smaller tactical support spheres. They have assimilated the military experience and strategies of thousands of species. If the Borg ever actually declared war with a species other than 8472, it would be like watching a tent try to withstand a hurricane. The Borg are a force of nature. The concerns of individual minds are literally irrelevant to them. Beneath their notice. If there is a flaw or weak spot to the Borg it's that without individuals confronting and creating solutions to challenges they will never grow. If you follow their logic to its end, the assimilation of all species, they will stagnate without new species to assimilate. They rely on individualistic species to do the creative thinking for them. The only logical solution would be for the Borg to break down the hive mind so it's not in complete hegemonic control over all Borg all the time. Since that is their only real weakness, I don't think it can be exploited to create defensive tactics against them. It requires extremely long timelines to affect. The Dominion being in a more weakened state after their last war wouldn't be able to field enough military might to stop the Borg of they were to REALLY come for them. All it would take is for the Borg to assimilate one Vorta, one JemHaddar, one changeling, and the war would be practically over. The Borg would know everything there is to know about Dominion technology, be able to adapt to it, and suddenly nothing can affect their cubes anymore. It's possible they'd figure out how to rotate weapon frequencies the way Starfleet ships did to keep the Borg from adapting but even that will eventually fail. There is one possibility that could give the Dominion an advantage. If they implemented some sort of biological and/or technological virus like the Enterprise and others came up with but actually used them. We've seen the Borg cut off cubes, sacrifice entire fleets, to save the whole. Something like that might back them off until they've adapted, which could but the Dominion time to try something else and so on. The Dominion has an impressive military but their most effective tool of conquest and warfare is their shape-shifting. They use it to infiltrate, sabotage, collect intelligence, spy, etc. This would be useless against the Borg, effectively eliminating the Dominion's biggest and most effective tool. That alone would put it solely in the realm of military might and the Borg would outclass them considerably. So there is just no way the Dominion can win and very slim chance they could put up a fight for very long.
“An ant has no quarrel with a boot.” - Loki. I think the dominion alone COULD take out one cube. Send the largest ships in to kamikaze. But the borg wouldn't care and would just send 3 cubes to assimilate the whole dominion. I think the borg would have interest in the Jemhaddar and how they are "made". And how the Vorta save knowledge with a save button and can reupload it to clones.
Good points. It is needless to let a weakened Dominion fight the Borg, for our war both parties should be at the top of their game. Further I don´t think that the Borg could assimilate changelings, just like they couldn´t assimilate species 8472. What do we have - let´s say hundreds of cubes and thousands of little support ships on the Borg side and maybe a hundred thousand Dominion ships. The Borg tech is superior but the Dominion is not inherently weaker than say the Federation, so we can be optimistic that they could come up with innovative bio-weapons and computer viruses. All in all the battle might be lost for the Dominion but it will cost the Borg a great deal and I am not sure if there will be any life forms left to assimilate for the Borg. In the end the Gamma quadrant might be a dead zone and the Borg might be seriously weakened for a long time.
@@jimbeam4736 One of the Deep Space nine books had the Defiant allowed to do scientific research in the Gamma Quadrant as long as they avoided Dominion space. They came across a crashed Dominion ship that was the result of the Dominion and Borg meeting right before Species 8472 attacked. There was a changeling on board and a reanimated drone tried to assimilate her only for her to condense herself and the nanoprobes down so she expelled them in a little ball.
@@tigerlilly4712 Sounds plausible and as changelings don´t have blood or organs or DNA or a nervous system or a brain, I don´t think how the Borg would ever assimilate them. Changelings even have their own hive mind - the great link and it is even possible that they transform into spaceships that might kill off Borg vessels and planets, much like Species 8472. Even if not, they could modify the genetic code of all gamma quadrant species so that they could not be assimilated or infiltrate/disrupt the Borg network if doing so.
@@jimbeam4736 That's a lot of speculation. I think the Borg would simply destroy them if they couldn't assimilate them. Their technology is not particularly advanced, and genetic manipulation techniques of the Dominion were not so advanced; they just had no scruples in deploying them against other species.
I think it looks like a fun series to get into. I for one would enjoy seeing it.
Yeah, Star Trek isn't bad...
lol
i'm under the impression that Admiral Janeway and her pocket full of advanced futuristic ship and weapon designs would render short work of a borg incursion.
YES WE WANT TO SEE THE ENTIRE WAR!!!
Sorry, just really excited. I would love to see this fully fleshed out 😃
Stay tuned :) big announcements
Brilliance of the Cardassian design is the big phaser/disrupter crystal at the front of the ship; special effect team doesn't have to make sure that beams come out of one, specific pinpoint spot.
I think the Romulans would want in on this conflict. The Ferengi would safeguard the supply lines because there has to be some rule about what costs can be incurred in order to avoid losing everything.
For a self produced youtube video yhe graphics were actually pretty cool. Thanks for taking the time to create this.
Happy you took some of our ideas from that early morning stream. I think the Dominion and the alliance would start to come up with different strategies similar to what we see in some of your what if videos. Such using the phase cloak to phase a ship into the cube and destroy it from the inside. Using Brean bio weapons. Section 31 would come up with a doomsday weapon at some point. And so on the war would go, because the Federation would be the ones to realize you can't use the same tactic twice to beat the Borg. Yet the alliance would ultimately win do to the Borg not being able to think and plan ahead. What was it a coronal once said, "give me an hour I'm good, give me a day I'm great, give 8 months I'm unbeatable." Hannibal Smith
Two thoughts:
1) Terran Empire vs The Borg. (Would the Borg be different in the Mirror Universe?)
2) Oufitting ships with NX-01 grappling hooks and pulling a Borg cube apart. (Silly idea, but would be fun to watch.)
I feel like the Jem'Hadar warship ramming the Cube in the initial encounter should have done a lot more damage, but c'est la vie.
Another thing is that the Dominion are utterly ruthless, and it will take a lot more than Odo to get them to see the Jem'Hadar as anything other than expendable assets. We know that Dominion transporters can penetrate shields, and they have a much longer effective range than Starfleet's ones, so a potentially viable tactic would be to transport Jem'Hadar suicide bomber commandos aboard an incoming Borg ship. If the Jem'Hadar can avoid detection by shrouding, then they can spread explosives over more of the Borg ship before detonating. Even if they immediately attract attention, then they just blow themselves up. Any internal damage they cause will (at worst) serve as a distraction, and should soften the Borg ship up at least a little. If they can get their bombers to the right places aboard a Borg ship, they might be able to cause crippling damage before the actual space battle even starts. Set it up so the instant a Jem'Hadar gets any Borg nanoprobes in his system, he explodes. Can't risk the Borg learning anything from assimilating even one Jem'Hadar after all.
An all out war between them... depends on what resources the Borg choose to pile on. From what we've seen of them, except when they're on the defensive like against the Undine (Species 8472), the Borg seem to send out the bare minimum they expect to do the job. If you can't fend off a Cube, you get assimilated. If you defeat the first Cube by trickery, the next attempt will still be one Cube, which won't fall for the same trick and you'll probably get assimilated. If you defeated the first Cube with superior technology, then the next attempt will be two Cubes, or three Cubes. We've never seen them employ overkill. It's just not efficient apparently.
There are no particular weak spots for suicide bombers. Besides borg subspace fields are a different asset than standard issue shields.
Lets give that they could transport in 4 times before they are locked away.
The design of borg ships do not allow for critical damage to specific parts.
@@sigurdrr1015 Except in Voyager ;)
Yeah would love to see more of a battle. I never really thought about this scenario. It's very interesting!
I like the detail of ships entering and leaving warp in the same order
Great work. I think it would be easy for the borg to defeat the dominion. If the federation could overcome the dominion's advanced tech, the borg defo could
Lol What? All the Dominion would have to do is have tons of Gem H Dar in ships and kamikaze the cube and its over. Also, the founders are liquid, the borg couldn't assimilate them.
The dominion does have genetically engineered super soldier shock troopers, which is something the feds don't have.
So I guess the Federation is not bringing the future Admiral Janeway transphasic torpedoes to the table, but saving those for last stand when the Borg decide to bring more than one cube to the battle.
I doubt it.. The borg already adapted to the tech when they scan the future shuttle craft in the last episode.
Who love something like your what if the Dominian won series.
Outstanding video. I found myself sitting on the edge of my seat throughout period If I Was A Millionaire I would definitely find you to make a thousand videos. Once again absolutely outstanding and very well-thought-out. You have a friend in Columbus Ohio!
Really cool! I'd love to see more of this
Glad you enjoyed
@@LoreReloaded the animations are pretty impressive and it's a good topic to cover - always wanted to see how the Dominion would do against the Collective. One idea is that maybe they enlist the help of another faction (the Breen Confederacy perhaps?)
for low budget graphics, i still really enjoyed this. gjgj.
For 10k my friend, I’ll give you trekyards quality :p
Wow, awesome! I’m all for more of this. I’m happy to fund this endeavor.
From my point of view, the Dominion would be technologically outmatched by the Borg.
From when we first witnessed Dominion military technology until the end of the Dominion War, there had been two new developments: The construction of the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought and the installation of Breen Energy Dampeners. The Borg would adapt very quickly to the second one - maybe even have the solution at hand already from assimilated federation or klingon officers/databases. The first one would be a step back when fighting the Borg: Having fewer, but bigger ships increases the risk of being boarded, and thus, taken over and it reduces the chance of a succesfull suicide run, since they are slower and not as maneuverable as Jem'Hadar Fighters.
That shows us that the Dominion has issues to adapt to new threats. They just try to flood the enemy with manpower and firepower. The federation learned that that doesn't work after the Battle of Wolf 359. The Dominion likely has yet to recover from their losses in the Dominion War - thousands of ships went down from the first wave and the 2800 that disappeared in the wormhole were probably also hurtful. And since they ruled for a long time in the Gamma Quadrant without any major pushback, they likely didn't have the production capabilities in the Gamma Quadrant either.
Another issue is, that Dominion Ships are limited to Warp 8. So the Borg not only could surprise them with hidden transwarp conduits, but also outrun them easily with conventional propulsion systems, thus, dictating the fights. The Dominon can't just place a thousand ships at every shipyard, Jem'Hadar breeding facility and whatever infrastructure they had. The Borg don't need to fight their amassed fleets, but just destroy the infrastructure needed to reproduce those fleets. And when they're done with that, flooding the enemy with masses of ships becomes an unsustainable strategy. And that the Dominion does not have smart military strategists became apparant, when they had to put a Cardassian officer in charge of all Dominion forces in the Alpha Quadrant during the war with the Federation Alliance.
So, TL;DR: The Dominion has inferior technology, can't adapt easily and can't make up for that with strategy. Their only hope is to benefit from the experience the federation made and the technology they can provide - and I would hardly describe destroying two cubes under immense casualties can be called a resounding success.
Heck yes, I'd love to see a full Dominion-Borg War!
Given how slow the Federation is to adapt at times, the relative speed they used in compensating for Dominion polaron beams tells me the Borg would adapt faster than they do against Federation phasers. But, a Breen energy drain weapon might just wreak havoc given that Borg tech is really just an amalgamation of other technologies.
A whole animated battle? are you kidding Lore Reloaded? Of course, I'd wanna see something like that.
I’m glad to see the vorta maintained their confidence despite the first loss to the dominion ever :)
I’m subscribing for your animation skill alone. Keep it up man
Title Dominion vs Borg in actuality Everyone vs the Borg.
More of these animations. Your Trek imaginations are right on and I really like them. Best Trek channel out there.
I feel like the Dominion is a bit like the Federation in regards to this - they'd be able to continuously beat back the continuous streams of lone cubes that are typical of early Borg probing but would struggle against a full onslaught. With Federation assistance, though, it could possibly push the Borg to the point of sending in the big guns - tactical cubes and Unimatrix Command Ships (the big V'Jer-lookin' ships from STO).
Imagine a fleet of 10 Dominion Battle Cruisers, 5 Klingon Neg'Var plus 7 Vor'Cha Battle Cruisers, 6 Romulan Valdore Heavy Cruisers...
Supplemented by a refitted Constitution Class, 4 Oberth Class "War Canoes" and 2 Miranda Class vessels.
Dominion: "Did they access their supplemental shipyards to form that fleet? What in the Founders' name are they thinking?"
Klingons: "Ha! Their sacrifice and courage will he celebrated with fresh Blood Wine."
Romulans: (Speechless.)
All we've seen of the Borg is advanced exploratory cubes picking the easy low hanging fruit. What has not been encountered yet is the Borg Wall which undoubtedly exist at the expanding borders of their empire.
4:53 Never was clear on those "Subspace Feilds" and what they did. They seemed very effective.
Finally someone realizes... hey... why don't we make warp capable cruise missiles that breaches it's own warp core on contact with the target?.... and suddenly the Borg and every other ship will be one shotted.
You mean like The Cardassian Dreadnaut Missle?
Aka Derpmissile
The Founders are essentially a non-corporeal species. Borg assimilation requires a corporeal body with a circulatory system to invade and 'assimilate'. Toss a few Founders at the Borg cube. They would flow through the ship easily evading assimilation attempts, figure out the ships weaknesses and; BLAM!
I don't know if you will consider this in your analysis, but it would be amazing if one breakdown did include Defiant class starships in swarms using wolf pack tactics like so many have discussed.
Thanks for the work you put into channel.
After a couple decades of deprecation I'm not convinced the borg are a threat to anybody anymore
I don't think the dominion would be humble enough to ask for help from the alpha quadrant
it's no longer under the leadership of the female changeling though
@@samrizzardi2213 Yeah but even with Odo in charge I doubt things would change that fast.
ONLY 98.5k subscribers? 🤔
The idea of borg shapeshifters is intriguing and damned scary
I think the best weapon against the board would be an unmanned vessel, perhaps made for this purpose, ramming it at high speed if not warp speed. They could put an end to any Borg encounter really quick.
You didn't take into account the fire power. In First Contact, 1 Borg Cube almost took out the entire Federation. In the last episode of Voyager, Voyager did the same to the Borg Collective with 1 ship.
Real question. How much would it cost you to do a full hour long battle? 30 cubes vs 100s if not thousands of alpha quadrant ships? Rough estimate???
The cost to do it appropriately would be pretty astronomical. Most companies pay about 1k per animated minute when it’s finished. Animation alone would be multi thousands. This episode was kind of a pilot and testing of the waters . If enough people like it, I’ll try to use my contacts at full sail and others to see what kind of deals I can make and on the cheap, if I was going to do it, it would likely be an hour cut into smaller segments to make it cheaper
One aspect of the conflict I think could be viable but may never talked about is the dominion using boarding techniques to take a cube as they may never win in a space battle without incurring significant losses. The Jem'hadar are excellent soldiers in hand to hand fighting. They could (assuming a Dominion-Federation alliance) use armour equipped ships to get in close and transport soldiers onto the Cube or ram the ship then board it. Using intelligence from Voyager, they could figure out where the central plexus is or could otherwise disable the ship and sever their connection to the Borg; thus neutralizing the ship without having to destroy it.
The Jem'hadar are genetically bread to require a drug to survive, making them unworthy of assimilation (detract from perfection). The founders may be able to alter the genetic make up of the Jem'hadar to make them more effective for this war, plus they can breed soldiers to be come effective very quickly. These advantages could make the Dominion one of the few serious threats to the Borg. Finally, with the vast territory the Dominion holds in the Gamma quadrant, they could loose lots of territory buying them time to adapt and seriously fight the Borg. Either way, this would be a great thing to see on screen; however, given the state of CBS and what they are currently putting out, I will not hold my breath.
I appreciate your videos
Yes. I will support this for sure.
I just realized where all of those Dominion ships that vanished in the worm hole went to.
04:30 having the Cerritos making a single pass, firing one phaser shot and then making a run for it, is a very nice touch. 😀
edit: oh, at 5:55 you had to point it out and explain it. I think you underestimated your viewers.
I had a fan fiction idea for a sequel to Nemesis called Star Trek Dominion. Basically the story is that the Borg have captured a Founder, and are close to figuring out how to assimilate the Great Link. The Dominion is fighting the collective in the Gamma Quadrant.
4:30 the Cerritos sneaks in! and sneaks out!
I really don’t think one Borg cube would hold out long against an alliance of this type. In fact the dominion wouldn’t need an alliance at all for the reason stated:
Suicide runs.
Klingons would have less trouble as well.
Tactics Briefing, we are beaming aboard with a torpedo, spatial charges, nuke, ect. I wonder who would be willing to give their life to accomplish this task. Jemhadar : Victory is Life!
To be honest, DS9 did need a Borg episode. Sisko never got a chance for closure with the Borg after Wolf 359. It was needed for his character if you ask me. Here's my idea: Sisko and friends are on a runabout and they encounter some distortion which forces them down on a planet. Only to discover a Borg scout ship and a Jem'Hadar fighter also crash landed there. Sisko and Jem'Hadar call a temporary truce while they are being hunted by the Borg survivors. Sisko battles some of the Borg hand-to-hand, but the fight doesn't go well. The Jem'Hadar end up assimilated and some killed. Just when it seems hopeless the Defiant arrives and beams Sisko away just before a Borg cube arrives to pick up the Borg survivors.
Two things I would expect:
1. Temporal intervention.
2. The Borg only send exactly as much force as is required, no more. I’d expect early battles where the alliance would commit too many resources would end in failure when the Borg simply overwhelmed them, and they had to adapt to using slightly fewer forces than could win a battle, and then reinforce them later to push it over the edge, in order to prevent having a second Borg ship show up and curbstomp them.
The main problem with an attritional strategy is that it plays to the Borg's strengths. It gives time for the Borg to regenerate and adapt. Every battle will either be decisive... or wasted.
That said, ultimately, we have only seen the Borg at war once, with species 8472. I believe that the attempts on the Federation are, for the most part, probes. The purpose is to assimilate, if possible, but if not the secondary goal is to allow the Collective to adapt to the current generation of Federation technology, to keep it from pulling so far ahead that they end up with another 8472 situation.
If the Collective were to believe that the situation was becoming critical, they would probably build a transwarp gate facility (which is possibly why Voyager encountered one that could reach Sol) and send dozens - if not hundreds - of ships, at which point, someone is going to have a really bad day. :)
I Loved this. Definitely expand on this. Consider this subscribed
Hell yeah, you've outdone yourself.
The Cardassian and Klingon ships get immediately wrecked because their ships are antiques, the Romulans fair a little better until the Borg beat their cloak, the Federation bugs out and then the Jem'Hadar destroy the Cube with Warp Speed kamikaze attacks.
This appears to be only the screen cannon of the Star Trek Universe. I like to use the ST Online additions. In it, the Federation has gotten MAD buffs from all the data and tech Voyager brought back. Now a ship like the Enterprise can go 1v1 against a standard cube and expect to win. Also because of what future Janeway did the Borg have been set back a bit and are only regaining their footing after 30 years. However because the Borg got their hands on both a 8472 corpse AND ship, courtesy of the Hirogen, 8472 weapons are no longer as effective against the Borg. So much so that they successfully invaded fluidic space.
Correct, I only use alpha canon - or that found on screen. Beta canon can be a lot of fun though and often finds it way to alpha canon
I like the inclusion of the Cerritos LOL
Invite Species 8472 to the party. They hate the Borg with an unrivalled passion.
I encourage continuing efforts. Sadly, like you, I am not particularly wealthy, so I hope many of your other fans are better off than us enough to help you.
The first battle would consist of a single Borg cube. Once they got a taste of the Dominion's firepower and tactics, they'd send a few thousand cubes. Maybe 10-20,000 if they were in a hurry. Except they're never in a hurry. They're as patient as the Dominion, and most importantly, the Borg WANT their enemies to keep improving their weapons and defensive capabilities. That's their whole strategy. They're essentially farming technological civilizations and they want the best crop possible. That's why they keep poking the Federation intermittently, but have never attacked in vast numbers. They want Federation tech to keep improving. But in all likelihood, the Dominion would be assimilated within a few decades at the most. To the Borg that's basically the middle of next week. As for the Changelings, the Romulans have tech that can prevent them from shape-shifting, and it's likely the Borg will have assimilated that knowledge too.
I think there's some miss understandings going on. Odo returned to the link it was never declared he was the links leader. There's also the fact the forces the dominion have are way understated. Remeber they put together massive fleets very quickly. Let's also take into account they had enough ships to keep control of the dominion and invade the alpha quadrant. Theres no reason to assume they stopped building ships during the dominion war. Even if they couldn't come through the wormhole.
We also know the founders ability to shape shift is on a godly level compared to odo. I'd imaging even the borg would not be able to detect them. Even odo states if you scane me when I'm a rock all you read is a rock. The borg who ignore people who Beam on, would not be ready for this level of infiltration.
The best bet is the fight would be a faint at first with the borg lured into a since of false security in the mathematical plan they liad out. Then out of nowhere founder sabotaging would disable critical systems. Then a massive fleet would show up out of no where and in the brief moment destroy the ship.
The founders ability of infiltration is the reason the borg will lose. Keep in mind if the federation hadn't given them a virus chances are they would have lost too.
Captian of the USS Mcmahon "Borg vessel YOU'RE FIRED!!!"
Wouldn't rotating shield and weapons modulation/frequency prove effective against them and with much less casualties to the fleet?
I'd guess the Borg would at first ignore the Klingons, Federation & Cardassian ships; while draining the shields of the Dominion ships, beam Borg drones onto those ships, assimilate the Jem'Hadar & Vorta on those ships, then use those ships as extra resources to fight the Federation, Klingon, Cardassian & any other ships that come against them.
This is single cube as usual not only would the borg adapt to any attack.But if necessary they can always bring 10s if not hundreds of cubes.This is why in voyager they has to introduce soecies 8472.Excellent production al round
So by the time this was set, that’s not true. Starfleet had found a way to defeat the borg and their systems not adapt, we see this in first contact . So the weapons systems would be able to penetrate the vessel, that said .. them not bringing ten cubes has never been adequately explained.. but for some reason they don’t
Don't forget Voyager returns to the Sol system, after the Dominion war?, with advanced weapons systems and tech which could be used against the Borg. Captain Janeway had also destroyed a major transwarp conduit to the Alpha quadrant AND had killed a Borg queen in the same engagement.
So a Borg incursion even a year later would see the Borg losing the first engagements with very little loss to Starfleet and any alliance fleet, even to the point of losing planets.
However this would be a long war, and the Borg being who they are, could potentially start to turn the tide, potentially through strategic use and knowledge of the multiple transwarp networks at their disposal, even with Seven's knowledge in Starfleet's hands.
It's possible that either (a) the end of the war would only occur if the Borg become dormant, hide the last queen & some drones and do a Vadwaar (?) on Starfleet.
(b) it could be a generational war - never ending until "The Burn" occurs (and not heard about in ST:Picard) or
(c) the Dominion/Breen develops something that shut down the Borg network galaxy wide and so only pockets of Borg exist who can't communicate with other Borg and therefore end up regenerating endlessly.
But either way would be impressive to see something.
Lore voicing the Borg. Well done on everything guys!
Anyone recall in TOS, the critters that 'tunneled' through mines? From 'The Devil in the Dark; Hortas? They laid eggs, and were impervious to Phasers for the most part. The Federation should 'clone' those, provide them with decompression and bio armor (to be deployed if needed) and transporter receivers (to 'deploy or recover them more easily), and equip them with Antimatter Grenades they can 'drop-off' as they go. Beam them in, let them 'Eat' thru decks, dropping A/M Grenades. Then beam them Out after they're too 'stuffed' to move freely, leaving a few more A/M grenades behind. They're the perfect Soldier for taking down the Borg!
Hello Lore. U know ive always wondered about this conflict. Points:
1. Jim hedar would be no issue. Ketracel white would be a non issue for those assimilated due to borg implants
2. The vorta would be a non issue but would provide the borg with extremely useful dominion info
3. The founders would be different. As we seen in ds9, the founders can become mist. Nanites and mist....smh. however
4. The borg assimilated the tal shear and obsidian order which means they have founder restriction fields which the borg would employ to assimilate the founders. Also
5. The federation has bio weapons designed specifically for the founders which the borg would also know.
6. As the borg would know of the dominion threat, they would send a fleet to surround the dominion systems and work in as we seen in voyager.
In trek, they knew they made the borg so powerful that sending anything other than one cube would render that episode/movie what we call in the hood, phoney. All other species assimilated in cannon worked the other way tho. Thanks for the vid as always Lore!
I find it a little hard to believe that the Dominion even with Odo's influence would be so quick to request assistance from any of the Alpha and Beta quadrant powers. It's also a bit of a stretch that any Cardassians would be willing to assist at all especially after the Dominion genocide of their people. In my mind it plays out that it would take several Dominion defeats before they would ask for help. Still enjoyed the video though! Thanks!
Why wouldn’t the dominion be ok with other powers wasting their resources and weakening themselves ? Additionally the cardassians might be given a choice in name alone :p
Damn you! That's a good point.
Honestly I think you could make an argument that the dominion would use this to attack the alpha quadrant again if it weakened them enough
As much as I agree with the genocide point, for the Cardassians that may be a strong valid reason to rebuild military capabilities with Federation's vast material support.
You touch on it. But if you are willing to throw lives away. Lure the Borg into a starsystem make the star go nova
Love to see the long-term view. How the war this progress long-term, who would ultimately win? What consequences would this have for the federation?
The Romulan Warbird should have launched one of their old 23 century plasma weapons against the Borg cube. The nature of the weapon from balance of terror episode, would have disintegrated the molecular structure in significant portions of the Cube before they could adapt.
Honestly, I would have to question the Federation's sanity for involving themselves in the Borg - Dominion war. There would be dissension amongst the ranks in Starfleet even from the most principled at the very notion of sending ships to help the Dominion. There would be veterans of the war who would argue to let the Borg and the Dominion wipe each other out. Most likely the Borg would decimate the Dominion unless Starfleet act as military advisors on combating the borg.
If anyone of them wins guess who is going to be next? Enemy of my enemy is my friend.
It would be in the best interest of the Frederation and other alpha/beta quadrant governments to help the Dominion. The last thing they'd want or need is an assimilated Dominion with access to a wormhole leading to their territory.
Whenever there was combat with the borg, the only way anyone defeated them was because of cunning and something the borg hadn’t encountered before. The first time, Q just saved the Enterprise, the second time Data connected to the Cube to shut it down. The third time Picard could hear the voices of the Borg to discover a weakness. In Voyager, they used Nanotechnology on their torpedoes. In End Game, they had future technology and tactics from Admiral Janeway.
You see. No one wins a toe to toe fight with the borg unless they have a trick or two up their sleeve to gain an advantage.
Except the nanotech on voyager's torpedoes were designed to destroy species 8472. Admiral Janeway had a nano-virus which led to the unicomplex' destruction, and Voyager with the future weapons and armor to take out the cubes and the transwarp hub.
Yes please
I have always maintained that I would like to see how the borg faired against projectile weapons. In hand to hand combat this would be like high powered rifles with armor piercing rounds but on a ship to ship level it would mean rail guns shooting tungsten (or whatever the 24th century equivalent would be) darts traveling at the speed of light. Follow the dart up with a photon torpedo shot into the deep hole the dart makes and you would get much more damage than a surface impact.
Give us the entire war! Sadly, I have no money, but I would LOVE to see this!
If faced with being forcibly joined to the Borg collective as an inevitable alternative, the Klingons, Romulans and Federation should jointly develop and deployed phased cloaked antimatter bombs that can take out a large portion of a Borg cube.
The federation was worried that a dominion force locked in the cardassian system, cut off on all sides, would be capable of building a fleet which could continue, or even win, the war. Drowning them in their own blood is a viable dominion tactic. Though, if you just want to guck a warp core at someone you don’t need to crew the ship to do it. Just fit as much antimatter as you can (maybe behind forcefields specifically designed to drive antimatter deep into the target rather than mostly exploding on the outside) around a hill capable of not being kablooied before it got in too close. Hell, have it lower its shields and be boarded before firing on the tractor beam, gunning its impulse engines, and going kablooie.
Or here’s a neat idea. Just hurl a giant chunk of shit at them at 99% the speed of light. Borg have proven very squishy to the simplest methods of attack. Even when the bullets were made of forcefields (theoretically, they could have been replicated, I guess) they didn’t adapt to a damn thing.
I think the Founders would want to infiltrate a Borg vessel, allow themselves to be assimilated to learn more about them. Perhaps a Trojan horse like mission where a Jem Hadar vessel gets captured and a founder gets assimilated as a typical solid. However, the founder's connection to the link is not completely severed. Maybe this is done several times throughout the quadrant, keeping their strategy hidden for as long as possible.
Perhaps one Founder takes control of a Borg vessel and brings it back to the home world where they dissect it and learn about all the Borg and the species they have assimilated.
Other Founders can have varying degrees of success or failures aboard their ships as they encounter ships with different complement of assimilated species. Learning more each time.
Another interesting encounter would be the Borg capturing a Founder and trying to integrate their nanotech to the Founder biology, which does not initially work. Eventually, the Borg adapt a make a connection to the mind but does not allow full control of it. Then they realize they have encountered another hive mind - the Great Link. A collective mind but one that allows individuality.
A battle of collective minds would be far more interesting than more ship-to-ship engagements. IMHO
Considering that the Dominion would most likely not be prepared for the Borg attack I think your assessment is right on target.
Based on Federation intelligence I also believe that boarding parties would be sent to the Borg cube quite possibly with tactical nukes.
If Picard and Janeway can defeat the Borg there shouldn't be any reason that a coalition of forces with intelligence gathered by Enterprise should not be able to do the same.
Actually they released it in a comic recently. Borg tech is leagues above what the Dominion has