Redeemed Zoomer's Misconceptions about Orthodoxy and Catholicism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2023
- Recently, @redeemedzoomer6053 has been saying quite a lot about Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. He gets a lot right, but certain dated Protestant polemics are still bleeding through. If he is to enter into an honest doctrinal debate and lead a supposed "Reconquista", he needs to eliminate the polemics and the fundamental misunderstandings. This is a lesson for us all in how we approach the other side of our perspectives. In this video, I critique his understanding of Thomistic divine simplicity, the Via Negativa, the causal factors of the East/West split, and his bold assertion that Catholics and Orthodox shouldn't be reading the Bible if they were consistent.
Music intro is "There you are" by Pogo.
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Hey! Thank you for the respectful critique. Finally got around to watching this after dozens of people sent it to me.
1) You are right that I’ve based my knowledge of these churches off of what Protestant scholars say. I will read Orthodox sources before talking about Orthodoxy again.
2) God bless my Catholic and Orthodox brothers in Christ, but I simply cannot embrace an exclusivistic ecclesiology. The fruits and workings of the Spirit to bring people to the gospel are present in many churches, Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc… so I don’t have justification to say only one of them is the true church. This is why I love being Protestant. They way I can equally affirm Catholicism AND Orthodoxy
Very good video overall, and God bless all of you
Thanks for watching. While I disagree with you, I appreciate your willingness to investigate and speak with other positions. I would love to have a live discussion and/or round table sometime. May God grant you many years.
To be fair the Catholic Church does teach that these other churches can have these fruits of the spirit like you say. It’s just that all of these fruits necessarily come from the spirit through one place-that is, the Catholic Church. And why not be closer to the spring which grace flows out of than further away? You’ve probably heard all that before but still.
On point #2: God gives grace to all to find Him. That's what the Church teaches with the testimony of Holy Scripture. There is an institutional Church that goes back to Apostles and ultimately Christ, which is the Catholic Church headed by the Bishop of Rome which sits in the seat of Peter, just as the priests of Old sat the Chair of Moses to teach and rule.
This is where the concept of "imperfect communion" ultimately arises in response to. God wants all his sheep to be of one fold, but He will not abandon them even if they are wandering in other folds they think are safe. He said that all may be one, not that all will be one automatically. There were schisms even during the time of the Apostles, as recorded in Scripture and the very early Fathers. It's one thing to grow up in a schismatic institution, it's another to have a schismatic mentality or spirit.
I am Catholic, but I agree with your second point. Guess I'm kind of an heretic.
God bless this response. It's so easy for me to be venomous in light of criticism, I'm always glad to see a civil response
Redeemed Zoomer unironically led me into the Catholic Church.
Welcome home, brother/sister in CHRIST!
Based
Sometimes a take can seem so clearly one-sided that you just have to look into it yourself, lol. I had to stop one of his videos after he put the Coptic Church in the same tier as EO (C, I think?) because "they're so humble and Christ-like, probably because of all the persecution." Like, bruh... Ever heard of the USSR? More Catholics and EO martyred there than in the last 1900 years combined. Surely enough of his viewers know the mite of history required to question that narrative.
DEUS VULT
Same✝️
As an Orthodox Christian, thanks for defending our position without bias :). Zoomer seems like a nice young man but it's obvious that he doesn't want to let go (consciously or unconsciously) of his protestant biases and misconceptions to fully interact with RC and EO theology. I believe the tweet you showed was after a discussion he had with Jay Dyer about Reformed vs Orthodox theology. To me it made him appear sensitive to the fact that Jay had better points, though that could be my bias poking through
I believe he made a tweet that said he's not gonna say anything more about Orthodoxy until he reads the Church Fathers and admitted he lost to Jay Dyer in that debate. But I do feel like he has an unusual pro-West anti-East bias for some reason.
Who defines the orthodox stand?
I’m in his discord and after that debate with Jay Dyer he vented on there and said some really offensive stuff so no that’s not your bias poking through
As a “Non-denominational” I can agree with you on his Protestant Bias. The reason my church is non denominational isn’t because we rejected our leaders to be more conservative and self led (as he often claims Non-denoms do) but because we had to object to the Legalism in nearby Baptist Churches. We were the first Baptist Church in our County to acknowledge interracial marriage, but he often paints us in a negative light.
Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. The traditional Catholic faith is true Christianity. Protestantism, Eastern "Orthodoxy" & all non-Catholic sects claiming to be Christian are unbiblical and are not true Christianity: The Eastern "Orthodox" broke away from the original church (The Roman Catholic Church) in 1054 & the Protestant revolution was in the 16th century - both developed revolutionary unbiblical heresies that the early church condemned & did not even remotely believe. Without the Catholic Church, there would be no Bible today. History, archeology & the Bible prove that Christ's one true church is the Catholic Church, founded in Rome where the Apostle St. Peter was buried. In Rome right now is a counterfeit non-Catholic sect, the Whore of Babylon, ruled by antipopes, which is prophesied to rise in the final days. Below is a crucial video that everyone should watch, as well as a playlist proving traditional Catholicism is the true Christian faith. Please watch:
Apocalypse Now in the Vatican
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The Bible Proves the Teachings of the Catholic Church
th-cam.com/play/PLel8fyxj9Sar85JEPGNW7SK5lmlduezEc.html
Apostolic Tradition: Christian History Proves The Catholic Church Is The One True Church: th-cam.com/play/PLel8fyxj9Sap5E_R1cAMxmobuKHQluUj5.html
The Vatican II Sect Is Not The Catholic Church
th-cam.com/play/PLel8fyxj9SarqysEwcpow2qDVgzYDFg8S.html
Protestantism Refuted
th-cam.com/play/PLel8fyxj9SaoAKywYZS0YM5miutzhSSIJ.html
Eastern "Orthodoxy" Refuted
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Steps to Convert to Traditional Catholicism
vaticancatholic.com/catholic-baptism-steps-to-convert/
How to Pray the Rosary
vaticancatholic.com/rosary
For crucial information on how to save your soul, please visit:
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It's about time Redeemed Zoomer got corrected!
Christian here and I started to drift away from his content.
@@b_radbrad8899Success with the algorithm can do terrible things to anyone. As a former "Based Molinist" gone Orthodox, I shudder to think where I'd be now if I were still in that ultra-intellectual paradigm.
Love seeing more Catholic apologists coming up. I hope you branch out ur videos to more topics
We have enough Catholic content in the English language, if you ask me. I'd like to see some Orthodox apologists coming up. Preferably, everyday people like the gentleman in the video and not priests.
@@alexvig2369you can check out kyle, hes a cool guy
@@alexvig2369 I mean most English speaking people belonging to Apostolic Christianity are Catholic. 1.3 billion Catholics vs 220 (?) Million Orthodox is a huge ratio.
Good video. I like how you defend not only the Catholic position but that of the Orthodox too. We have our disagreements with each other, but they pale in comparison to those both have with Protestants, especially of the "low-church" kind. I would add to your remarks that the Vulgate itself is a vernacular translation. Latin may have been lost to much of the uneducated masses by the time of the Reformation, but it was the language commonly used by all in the West back then. In the East, we of course have the Septuagint in Greek, which was the language of much of the faithful, and others like the Peshitta and Slavonic Bibles. I know I'm forgetting some, this is mostly off the top of my head. Keep up the good work, you've got another subscriber!
I hope and pray the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church one day reunite
as a Protestant (Lutheran), I also appreciate any discussion furthering our understanding of the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, because indeed it's not well understood within Protestant communities. me and my friend in our local congregation has been working to provide a better understanding about the Catholic and Orthodox traditions to our church youth colleagues, especially regarding misconceptions such as "Catholics worship Mary" and "statues in churches are a Catholic thing" (Lutherans in Germany do in fact retain a lot of Catholic traditions, but in Indonesia, Lutheranism has been mixed with Calvinist traditions and that has made Lutheran churches in Indonesia more "Protestant" in character imo)
Proud Catholic convert, Baptized easter vigil 2024. Best choice of my life to be apart of the church founded by Christ, The Universal church of Christ (Catholic).
I was baptized last Easter vigil. I'm very glad to be part of the church which has stood since Christ established it :)
Wait you're baptized or you're going to be baptized? (2024)
@@michaelangelo3713 I will be baptized March 2024 on the Easter vigil since I had a invalid baptism.
DEUS VULT
It is a difficult ride. I just got Baptized in 2023.
You must examine your conscience every night, keep track of your confessions.
I was a Protestant for all of my life (I am 16 now), and I probably would have never looked into Eastern Orthodoxy or Church history if I never would have subscribed to Redeemed Zoomer or join his Discord. I do pray that he will come to Eastern Orthodoxy or at least get a better view of it.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, Hold to Peter!
@@TCM1231His first see or his second? Lol I'm just playing. To be fair though, I do think Peter would be far more comfortable in Antioch than Rome, these days
Eastern "Orthodoxy" has many many issues.
@candletabletop154 as does whatever christian doctrine you subscribe to. Humble yourself.
@@TCM1231 I can't read latin or whatever you wrote in. Could you translate please?
I think it's also dishonest to give Protestantism credit for wider lay reading of scripture and theology, given that it emerged only after printing became widespread. Before then, books were too rare and expensive for most, meaning literacy was also useless for most.
Well, many still read for notes, letters which could be written on scraps, shards of pottery, and other junk
The thing also is that protestantism widely spread in cities, as it's also suited cities council to gain land from clergy. Cities always have higher literracy level, because they are far more reliant on law, statues, treaties etc.
every Catholic apologist has a bookshelf in the background.. everytime.
It's required by the Vatican. They have tunnels running all around the world to deliver bookshelves to us so we can psyop the Protestants.
(But don't tell them I said this)
I’m not an apologist but I plan on getting a bookshelf so I can defend the Catholic faith better because there is always lies spreading
I do appreciate Redeemed Zoomer as far as Protestant youtubers go, because he does get some of our basic arguments and doesn't strawman us to the point of the really dumb Protestant groups like Got Questions and whatnot.
That being said, his dives into Catholicism are definitely not deep enough. I'm not even a casual theologian (Have only read like half the Bible and less of the Catechism and even less of the Church historical documents.) and I could probably refute 75% of what he says about why Catholicism/Orthodoxy are wrong off the top of my head. He had a very recent video on why he thinks everyone's converting to Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and all his critiques of these traditions were almost laughable. (He literally said that if you like both Catholicism AND Orthodoxy you should be Protestant because Catholics are forbidden from appreciating Orthodoxy and Orthodox are forbidden from appreciating Catholicism. I am not kidding.)
What good there is to be said about him I think is that he definitely simplifies things down enough that prospective Christians can be engaged by his videos. I especially think series he does like the "KingdomCraft" where he plays Minecraft while talking about Christianity probably gets a lot of outsiders interested. And he does admit that he's biased - sometimes even in the titles of his videos. But yeah, he's definitely not the best on the internet. I'm just saying as far as Protestants go, he's not that bad.
The part about his Protestantism that saddens me is how in his very popular books of the Bible explainsd video, he COMPLETELY skips over any and all dueterocanon. Just more people who don't realize many Christians have incomplete bibles
@@ManiacMayhem7256 Right. He begins with the KJV 1611 as if none of the scripture before that date is important
Well, dont try to search, worse protestants out there
Im a brazillian catholic and i have aneurysms from brazillian protestants (brazillian protestantism at least from what i see is majority pentecostal/neo-pentecostal or non denominational) who just shoot insults in my face and use arguments like
"yo you worship images lmaooooooo"
I saw that video as well with redeemzooner on why everyone is converting
It was so lazyily slapped tomorrow, I picked up on the appreciation part as well and how dumb it. You can appreciation and admire aspects of a denomination.....
I forgot rest of my quarrels with the video, I have written a comment there but it was just bad..
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that if you engage in certain online communities you might think we Catholics and Orthodox can't appreciate each other. That being said, irl we're a lot closer than people think when we are near one another. My wife and I got married in our home Catholic Parish and walked one block to have our reception in the Orthodox parish hall. Not to mention Pope St. John Paul II talked of us being two lungs of the same Church, and Bishop Ware continously saw a lot of our divisions as lacking substance throughout his life.
Redeemed zoomer is growing as a person and hopefully that means he'll end up with us.
Subscribed! This video was really refreshing for me as an Orthodox Christian with an interest in the liturgical West; I see so many false polemics online against the West and East and it becomes mind numbing to sit through.I really enjoyed this and look forward to more of your content.
When we look at Protestantism, Catholics and Orthodox come to realize we really have almost no differences and healing the schism is not only possible but critical.
As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I wonder about the side of this divide on which you are; From my current perspective, while the divide between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism is *not* as deep as the divide between Orthodoxy abd Protestantism, there is quite a bit that separates the two. We do not share the same Faith.
YES! Yes! Amen! 🙏 I’m Catholic and seriously for us Christians to come back together in One Body of Christ and unzip the schisms. Us Catholics and Orthodoxy Brothers and Sisters need to come together to tell our Protestant brothers and sisters that faith is much, much more than Doctrines created in the 15th Century. And Our Lady isn’t “dead” she is alive in heaven with Christ, The Father and the Holy Spirit. I can’t stand it when Protestants blasphemy against Our Sweet Virgin Mary!
@@joaomendes6406 Not necessarily we can have a compromise where nobody admits wrongs. A simple declaration that the opinions that lead to the schism can be allowed to differ would do much to heal the devide without constituting heresy as modern scholars usually agree that most of the theological devide between east and west is based on misunderstanding of each other's language and terminology.
From the Catholic side something like the Pope agreeing to a less centralized mode of governance, to treat the orthodox patriarchs as equals, and granting the orthodox exemptions for doctrines, dogmas and conciles passed after the schism. (Obviously the Pope cannot simply drop conciles and dogmas his predecessors declared, but granting an exemption for pastoral reasons is possible.)
From there the Pope calls an ecumenical concile, and the clergy can sort out what can be agreed upon regarding doctrine, dogmas and governance.
(The thing is that politically the Orthodox clergy is not able to rule over the laity effectively, as even if the intellectuals agree to such compromise, there are going to be populist factions who will simply reject their own leaders' authority and begin levying on their clergy the same accusation of heresy that common Orthodox prejudices associate the west with.)
@@Ziiphyr what is blasphemy against Mary?
I also pray for this, I am Catholic but family currently goes to non-denominational church and my girls just started school at a nice private baptist school because it met our criteria and the wife still needs prayers that one day she can fully be onboard with raising the kids catholic.
I grew up with the Focolare movement which really help give me the sense of wanting unity even if i disagree with the Catholics that embrace progressive politics especially those embracing or turning a blind eye to abortion
Can I just say that while you're the last person I would expect to see as a convert, or making such a video, this is genuinely awesome. Please continue, and may God bless you.
It's honestly creepy the first impression of the apostolic churches we Americans get in school. Basically every history teacher in high school will teach about the reformation, about the corruption of the Catholic Church, and leave it at that. Essentially no talk about the council of Trent, no talk about the counter-reformation and how the Church changed afterwards etc. Here where I live, especially with the amount of Baptists, history teachers seem to focus in on the sale of indulgences, specifically to the point where almost every dedicated protestant I've talked to believes they STILL sell them. I was one of those people too, and it still hurts me to think about because I have a cousin in FL who's just like me except a major protestant.
love it or hate, we are a Protestant nation, with all the biases that come with that. Or... were, perhaps?
Anyhow, the secularists hate you just as much, so expect that to continue.
i’m a Catholic in Florida, and let me tell you, I had a great world history teacher in 9th grade. But I’m fairly certain she was protestant, because when we got to the reformation, there was absolutely quite a bit of focus on the errors of the Catholic church and the positives resulting from Martin Luther and John Calvin (especially Luther). I don’t remember for certain if we touched on the counter-reformation or not, and i wouldn’t be surprised if we did at least a little bit, but i know that if we did it wasn’t very much. me not being able to remember if we even covered it testifies to that lol. I’m friends with lots of protestants, and they’re all awesome people. it’s just really saddening to see the catholic church so downtrodden around here, in that even though there’s not tons of people outspokenly against the catholic church, just the obvious lack of catholic influence and parishioners is a bit discouraging and can make basic catholic tradition or happenings culturally unusual and seemingly out of place.
It goes both ways. By catholic uprising i basically was under impression that protestants are worse than satanists
Indulgences were exwmptions fro secular punishments, so for instance, if someone commited a certain crime, they could either go to jail or pay the indulgence, not a "free ticket to heaven" as most say.
Immediately subscribed!!! I literally just fpund your channel 30 minutes ago. I strayed away from my Catholic faith up until last year, and as someone who grew up in a Catholic-mostly country, I couldn't even fathom what Protestantism was. So, I naively followed this guy. I unsubscribed to Redeemed Zoomer a few days ago, finally, after he posted abput how Protestants countries are more developed (what a weird argument). Now in my hope I'd wish u to debunk that too. You are doing good works, thank you. Also, thanks for giving me a slightly more understanding on the Orthodox stance. I love our Orthodox brothers and sisters
Its based on a false interpretation of a book by Max Weber, its false because since by many accounts he never implies this anywhere.
@@kinsmarts2217 thank you for giving me a lead. I'm not going to read it because I have better things to do with my life. But I may glance over the main thesis of these "Protestant work ethics" groups.
he just dropped another one of these gems today, I kinda like the guy but he has been uttering some quite ridiculous takes on the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches
his most recent video on why people are becoming ortho/catho is utterly ridiculous
@@yeetus_reetus_deeleetus
Redeemed Zoomer be like: 🤔🤔 hm why are all these people converting to apostolic churches that have a direct tradition and line back to Jesus Christ and his apostles.. must be because those scoundrels wanna be 'trad'
@@Arpitan_Carpenter I mean, I *do* want to be trad, but that's a result of my desire to be in union with Christ's church
@@marvalice3455 Understandable, but I meant 'trad' as a online LARP type of definition.
Good video, from a fellow Roman Catholic
Redeemed Zoomer’s videos about the Trinity and Holy Communion were the first videos that ever popped up on my feed about Christianity. I will always be grateful for him starting my journey into Christianity. If the videos weren’t so short and punchy with simplistic graphics and commentary, i don’t know if I ever would have bothered to look into the Good News. Now I’m grateful to be attending an EO church and looking more deeply into theological matters for the last year. Got my OSB, learned proper arguments for each of these. It’s clear he simply doesn’t understand EO theology and think it’s just for “based trad” people online…
OSB?
@@patrolgaming4094 Orthodox Study Bible. It’s a combination of the Saint Athanasius Academy Septuigant (Old Testament) and NKJV (New Testament) with commentary from orthodox priests and theologians. Basically the best thing we currently have in English before the EOB (Eastern Orthodox Bible) translation is completed.
@@Flame1500 Thanks
You know, that's something I never considered. Some people, especially younger are going to start without catechism and just click on the most simple, digestible video for their information.
@@Malygosblues I will become a catechumen soon, but intake doesnt start til next year at my parish. and yeah, punchy youtube videos is really the thing that evangelised me, imbeggar, cold case christianity, redeemed zoomer
Thankyou brother.
Respect from Orthodox ☝️
CHRIST IS GOD ☦️
Glory to HIM
RZ is one of the many youtubers and influences that have opened my eyes to the good news, but as someone who is denomination-less I appreciate people such as yourself. I wish it were easier sometimes. I know only one of them can be truly "on the money" so to speak. Hopefully one day I will discover the truth, whatever it may be. God bless
I'd recommend "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future" by Fr. Seraphim Rose. God bless you and keep you in your journey. If you seek him, you will find him.
Redeemed Zoomer admits he's bias. Watching his videos with this in mind makes him palatable.
Thank you for making this video. Myself and a lot of people have been talking about this and im glad someone finally made a video on it.
Heading to our weekly Catholic Liturgy where we don't say the Filioque...That's not "the issue" for The Schism.
Eastern Catholics get forgotten by everyone. In fairness - we're so small it's easy to do 😅
Not to come off as Devil’s Advocate here, but RZ’s primary goal is to re-establish a conservative base back into mainline Protestant churches and prevent more churches from splitting across theological liberal lines. This is something that’s not seen in the relatively uniform Catholic and Orthodox churches. RZ is much better when it comes to (intra-)Protestant doctrines than Cathlodox ones.
That is a noble goal, but as a Reformed person I was just as dead in my sins as I would've been as an unhinged secular hedonist. In fact, it was possibly worse, because I had the pretense of righteousness. How deadly it was, to be drowning in sin while claiming to have Christ in me. It wasn't until I found Orthodoxy that I've found true healing in Christ
Very good video. Well done!
Just found this channel. Keep up the great work🫡
Thank you for posting this!
Great Video! God bless you and happy thanksgiving!
I do appreciate your accurate descriptions of the positions of Orthodox and Catholic, i do have some small nit picks, but please take these as kind criticisms and not an "epic owning" of your great defense of both Orthodox and Catholic positions.
We as Orthodox do not, and have not, found our authority in Emperors (see Nicea II in response to the false council of the iconoclasts which was cinvened by an Emperor and supported by him) nor the Roman Pontiff individually, but rather in the overwhelming agreement of all the Sees as well as bishops in the Church to determine doctrine, with a healthy dose of the mind of the Church Fathers regarding these issues, all culminating in the Councils that we find binding
We do indeed still have these binding Councils, our most recent was Jerusalem 1672, as it has been ratifued by all Patriarchs and Sees who are in communion with eachother and agree in matters of defined doctrine. Which shows our non reliance on Emperors to get these Councils done, of course, it was easier when an Emperor could bankroll the entire thing, but it is only a challenge to conducting such a Council, but still finds itself to not be an impossibility, quite far away from such a reality in fact.
And that's about the sum total of my disagreement. I again truly thank you for this video, and i reiterate that I hold absolutely no ill will toward you for these simple misunderstandings, just things that (as an Orthodox) i would appreciate being represented to further bolster this already wonderful video
Glory to God, Christ is in our midst.
This is a great comment. I have heard a similar perspective to yours before but have heard others that insist that after Rome became Christian, that there is a sort of Divine Plan that insists that an emperor be involved in an Ecumenical Council. The Eastern Fathers sometimes say things that suggest this…
I find that there is a diversity of thought among the East as to what exactly constitutes an Ecumenical Council. I would love to host a round table of various Orthodox and maybe an Eastern Catholic as well for perspectives as to what an Ecumenical Council is. I find it one of the most fascinating questions out there. Thanks for your comment and for watching!
@ConfessionsofAConvert no problem! I'm happy you actually read it! I'm not used to actually having the creator of a video respond (and so quickly, might I add!)
I would love to see such a roundtable in the future
Kilroy was here (there’s a lot of crap on the Internet but looking at this common section. And all the concise very polite and well worded comments really brings glory to God‘s name. God bless y’all)
Great video! God bless you!
As someone looking to get confirmed into the Church of Nigeria - Anglican Communion (mainly because the Episcopalians in my area suck), these are some fair points. You just earned yourself a subscriber.
Subbed.
Reformed Baptist here always wanting to learn more.
The light jazz in the background is a nice touch
I love the use of Pogo music!
Alright gents. Now its our job to get this man to Matt Frad.
I'm 20 years old, from Costa Rica, I was raised a Roman catholic, I converted to orthodoxy 2 years ago, I do respect my Roman catholic fellas, but we must not misunderstand God, for it is our salvation, our generation must be represented by saints and the right faith, not heresy.☦️
very good and unbiased video 👍👍🙏
redeemed newest video is literally laughable!! thank you for this video
Epic, just found this channel.
Thank you!!
What are some sources on Hus and the Waldensians that you would recommend?
I really appreciated this video and feel that I learned a lot. I do have a question about your rebuttal of RZ's comment that 'if they were consistent, Catholics and Eastern Ortho folks wouldn't read Scripture.' If I understood your rebuttal, you basically said that this couldn't be the Catholic or Orthodox line because there are remarks and practices within the traditions that speak against this line. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but that cannot be an answer to RZ. His comment began with claiming that there is some inconsistency. As such, he can acknowledge remarks and practices within those traditions that allow or even encourage lay reading of Scripture. His point, which may be incorrect, is that the HEART of these traditions is deference to clerical authority. If that is the heart, so RZ would say, then one should see these remarks and practices as kind of stray remarks and practices, peripheral to the main thrust of these traditions.
So, I was wondering if I'm understanding the debate rightly. And if I am, what's the fuller response to RZ?
The "heart" of Catholicism (at least) is not "deference to clerical authority". Clerical authority is essential, because an ordained sacrificing priesthood (to offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice of the Mass) and an ordained episcopate (to continue and pass on the Apostolic Deposit of Faith within the Apostolic Tradition, & to teach, rule and sanctify the Church of Christ) are both essential. Even so, the authority of the clergy exists for the sake of something more important than itself. Namely, the life and mission of the Catholic Church as a whole.
As for the Bible, it is an important & valuable means of grace, and the Church would certainly be poorer without it. But it is a witness to Christ, rather than being the supreme judge in all controversies of religion. It is not the foundation of Christianity, and it has many shortcomings if treated as perfect in history, geography, the other natural sciences, theology, doctrine, or morality. One must not over-react to the excessive claims made for it within Protestantism by denigrating it - that would be very wrong - but neither should one be shy about recognising its limitations. It is not, and cannot be, the only source of all Christian doctrine; partly because even inspired texts need interpretation. And the Christian interpretation of the pre-Christian (and later on, Christian) Scriptures, lies with the Christian Church that recognised, in Jesus of Nazareth, the promised Messiah, and - by applying to Him Biblical imagery, passages & motifs - came to see more deeply Who and What He is. And the Church did all this, in the light of the Spirit-illuminated Tradition of the Apostles, that was the result of their intimate fellowship with their Master. Without that Apostolic Tradition, there would be no New Testament books, and no NT canon, and no Christian orthodoxy. The Bible has limitations - and so has the Church. It is no denigration of either to say this.
Catholic practice - if the Church is healthy - should express the Church's Faith, Liturgy, and Tradition. Unavoidably, Catholic practice should therefore be a conservative force, while remaining open to what is praiseworthy and worthy of emulation in the world in which she lives her. Receptiveness to what is good and praiseworthy and in accord with her Faith & Tradition & practice, should - with God's help - make her ever more fully and perfectly Catholic. She ought to become, in the fullest degree & manner possible, the Catholic Church that she already is.
It sounds to me as though RZ may have things inside out (if I have understood your remarks accurately).
God bless ❤
Bro you were so good with Stampy in Gamers Guide
Hey man! I'm glad that you left Hollywood and joined Christ!
Quick question, do you attend an SSPX parish?
I'd love to hear your conversion story.
Redeemed Zoomer's latest video is about comparing Bible Translations, but obviously he is using Protestant Bible translations. Will you be doing the same for Catholic Bibles, or Orthodox Bibles?
Sincerely, a person who reads both the New American Bible - Revised Edition and the New Catholic Bible (The one that was released in 2019, not to be confused with the CTS New Catholic Bible, which mostly had the Jerusalem Bible plus the Grail Psalter and additional footnotes) translations both in print and in online form. (I primarily use Bible Gateway as it has both translations in its list of Bible translations)
does matter if some one is honest about their position. Here is what I mean by that. I will take everyone at their word and not try to assume their motive. If they are lying so be it. So often I see people say, they would agree with me or this conversation would be more productive if only THEY were honest. How does one prove their honesty? relationship. Yes their are academic ways of proving honesty but this is something much more personal. And internet debates lack long term relationship ( or at least it takes time) I see people are so quick to blames the other as being dishonest. So to that I say, who cares. I will still approach them honesty without malice, and out of love. Turn the other cheek, if they lie to me, let them lie again. I will take people for their word and believe they are sincere in their convictions.
I hope and i feel like the Catholic Orthodox Church will reunite soon but idk if I'm being to optimistic
I think the Catholics need to resolve their own internal divisions before that happens...and the fact that the EO and OO which are much more similar to each other still haven't reunited first doesn't make me too optimistic.
@@danshakuimo I agree with you, also..reunion is something the west wants more than the east (unofortunatley since I'm from the west)
We need to heal our schism with Oriental Orthodoxy before we do with Rome. We are much more closer theologically. I don't think Rome would give up the idea of the Bishop of Rome being the one leader of the universal church, among other things.
I engaged both Catholics and Orthodox as a traditionally leaning protestant and the Orthodox did a much better job explaining philosophy and why protestant ecclesiology is untenable, that and it matches much more with what I've seen in the scriptures.
The appeals to the papacy that are a result of the Vatican I council significantly weaken the case for Rome today because it has become all about defending the papacy and not so much about defending the truth presented by the theological framework.
I guess Orthodox apologists did a much better job getting me to want to convert out of protestantism. I had been attending a confessional Lutheran church for a while so the liturgy and the mass wasn't as strange to me, but still quite different.
When was the Great Schism?
And subscribed.
My adhd won't let me get past the audio video not synced up. :(
Redeemd zoomer is a good illustration of the parable of the unjust steward. If he is willing to go through to pain to try to revive schismatic a fallen away church, how much more should we persist in loyaty to the true church.
subbed
Can you do a video criticising liberal theology next?
☦
The catholic church officiating and supporting translations of the bible was a pragmatic move in reaction to Protestantisms growth. To observe that as the truth and to say bible translations are a good thing is to admit that the catholic church is capable of having institutional problems. That doesnt mean that you have to think the problems outweigh the positives at all no, but what the point is that that acknowledment that the catholic church is capable of having those institutional is just a piece of the overall argument against the catholic church serving as “one true church”
The problem is he doesn’t get the importance of apostolic succession.
NICE
Is this dubbed? Also, why is he dressed like a background actor from Harry Potter?
1. Yes it’s fully dubbed, the original was actually recorded in Edo period Japanese, of course.
2. Because I’m a wizard, obviously.
But... American, so more like "Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them", right?
people can only choose what they see good in. if you see know good in a position, than you do not truly understand why people hold it.
Calvinism as a whole I completely reject. This is my bias and I’m unashamed. So redeemed zoomer, as he is bright and has a good heart, unfortunately everything he represents come from completely false doctrines that are logically incoherent. Should he allow himself to open up to actually sound doctrines outside of a Calvinistic basis he could really have some potential.
calvin and luther were heretics and go against the fundamental beliefs
What's crazy is the fact that I don't think I've seen the name Jesus mentioned. You are missing the point without Him.
I think redeemed zoomer is a nice guy with a real passion for Christ, and I think many of your points are correct, but I also think we shouldn't be uncharitable towards him. I'm not saying you are, I think you came off as very charitable and fair, but I know there are some out there that might have that feeling of wanting to "bit back" per se. I experience this just like anyone else, and at the end of the day we're all trying to keep our focus on Christ. He has misconceptions, and all he needs to do is willingly listen to people who can explain those things to him. That's how I went from an agnostic who had negative biases of the catholic church to someone who finally reverted and loves it, every little thing that held me back was answered by God through his many servants.
That an interesting assertion, that Eastern ecumenical councils were under leadership of an emperor. That demands proof. Off the top of my head, an opposing idea is the controversy of iconoclasm. Iconoclasm was begun under Emperor Leo III and successors, but was ultimately overturned by ecumenical council. Still it’s very understandable from the Western perspective how nerve-wracking it was to see an Eastern emperor be able to cause such a horrible thing, and it might even seem that Papal authority was a solution. But ultimately an ecumenical council was the solution.
I think you’re missing redeemed audience. It’s for people who want a overview or a starting point. For some it will enough and move on, for others they might be curious and dig deeper. Not every piece of informational content has to be exhaustive.
That's all fine if he admits that he was being extremely short AND NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE SITUATIONS. He is now being misleading; imagine the audience thinking (a) Orthodox Christians are not intellectual, or (b) Catholics lay people don't even know what a Bible looks like. Now does that sound fair to you?!
At 4:37, Constantine called the Bishops together so that they would iron out their differences and thereby Constantine would have a more cohesive empire. He did it to help himself, but he had no role in making the agreements. He just wanted agreement. Subsequent Roman ("Byzantine") emperors largely did the same for later councils, with a few exceptions. When the emperor and a compliant archbishop tried to steer the Orthodox Church to a Latin view, the assembled bishops might have been cowed to approve, but Orthodoxy has a check on doctrine: the Faithful (the people). Some councils were never accepted. Later emperors were more concerned about their thrones than maintaining Orthodoxy (orthodoxy) in their realm. (They needed help against the Muslims and would do anything to get western help.) But the people through the Holy Spirit corrected the misdeeds.
THAT is the difference between RC and Orthodox churches. Roman Catholics do not have that check. That is a prime weakness. So, the RC can criticize the East for being led/ having been led by a non-clerical head, but at least there is a means in the East to correct the errors, even today with Orthodox churches which are self-led. The people must say "AXIOS" - meaning "he/it is worthy", over ordinations of clerics, and for doctrinal changes.
Also, there wasn't a "Roman Catholic Church" at the time of the schism. There was a Pope/Metropolitan/Archbishop of Rome, and the Orthodox Sees. Only after the fall of Constantinople in 1204 was there an RC church.
Finally, the RC church is a product of Charlemagne to have a religious structure loyal to him and independent of any control. He encouraged outlier practices and exotic doctrines to be promoted as a means to distinguish his church from those in the East. And he perverted the "first among equals" doctrine of Orthodoxy for the Pope of Rome to that of being an overseer.
“Have honest conversations” Like teaching mysticism in the EO church.
11:30 I just watch him bc at freshmen I became Christian but didn’t read Bible this year I’m just getting into it
I'm a Protestant going through Eastern Orthodox Catechism and when it comes down to it. Most of us Protestants don't Understand Orthodoxy. For many Reasons. One Protestants have Exclusively been Dealing with Catholics to Point where most Protestants are only now Discovering Eastern Orthodoxy. The Filioque was just the Final Straw not the Pan Ultimate reason for the Split. Infact the East did not Exccuminicate the West. The Pope was not the One who Excuminicated his Equal Fellow Arch Bishops in the East. It was a low Ranking Diplomatic Bishop who Overstepped his Bounds by Placing a Bowl of Excuminication in the Hagia Sophia and due to Political Tensions at the Time both Sides had to Role with it.
Second because of This Protestants just Assume Eastern Orthodox are just like Catholics when no there are Many Differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Just to use Worship as one Example while Yes the Eucharist/Communion at the End of the Service is Same, except Catholics use Unlevened Bread because the Ancient Jews use Unlevened Bread. Eastern Orthodox do not use Instruments like Organs their Worship is Exclusively Vocal, Eastern Orthodox don't Kneel, the Only Eastern Orthodox Churches that Allow Sitting for a 5 to 15 Minute Part of the Service are American Ones, the Internals of Orthodox Churches are Modeled after the Jewish Temple down to the Holiest of Holies being Closed off from the Inner Court. Another Example is Eastern Orthodox Priest can have Wildly Differentiated Theology so long as they Agree on the Nicean Creed because all Heresies reject the Nicean Creed in Some Way or atleast Part of it. An Example of this would be Heaven and Hell. Some Orthodox Believe in the Same Heaven and Hell as Protestants and Catholics, while Some other Orthodox Believe Heaven for the Believer is Being in Gods Presence because the Believer Loves God Meanwhile Hell for the Unbeliever is being in God's Presence because they Hate God, but also believing in a Sepperate Hell for the Devil and the Fallen Angels because the Bible Memtions Hell was made for the Devil and his Angels and Only Humans who are Particularly Evil or Completely Align themself with the Devil will go to the Same Hell as the Devil which is Total Seperation from God.
Three, also all these Points are the Same Point I am just Dividing it up to Explain it Better anyway, Point Three. A Protestant can come to Understand Catholicism as Stated Above because Catholic Resources have always been Available to us and there are Far more Catholics Resources Online, a Protestant can Learn About Catholicism Online from Catholics Resources without Ever Interacting with a Catholic Christian. It is Significantly Less So with the Eastern Orthodox Church, finding Information about the Eastern Orthodox Church online is Very Hard to do. Now that is Changing but the Eastern Orthodox Coming Online in an Official Extent is being Taken as a Slow Process because if how Easily Rumors Circulate Online, because of this in Order for us Protestants to become Eastern Orthodox we Kinda have to have Eastern Orthodox Friends to Ask Questions to or go through Eastern Orthodox Catechism, which the Latter is Easier. Eastern Orthodox Catechism is Only 8 Weeks and Going through it does not mean you Officially Joined the Eastern Orthodox Church that does not happen till Baptism, which is another Difference between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Catholics will not Rebaptize you Out of Respect for you're Previous Tradition, Orthodoxy will Rebaptize you out of Respect For you're Previous Tradition. If you can Wrap you're Mind around that you can understand the Theological Difference s between both Churches.
Edit: I have decided to Stay Protestant. Sorry I still will Respect Eastern Orthodoxy.
Amen🙏🕊️❤️😇✝️😊😀🍞🍷🎉
The Filioque: the issue is just as much the dogma itself, as well as the way Rome went about.
i just started this, but Eastern Orthodoxy Is The One Truth. And I love Redeemed but im pissed with his newest video!!! i hope this is a right video
I think redeemed zoomer does a good job explaining basic theology SIMPLY while being entertaining. Obviously he is not an objective being which is why he brings in his own understanding and opinion, while this is obviously „wrong“ even though it‘s hard not to do this his videos give the average person a better understanding about theology than they would have without them. What i mean by this is he is spreading more truth than he is spreading „heresy“/ he is benefiting us more rhan he is putting us away from god.
I did not know roman catholics had iconography
10:40 Sure, but the Tyndale Bible was made before that one.
K, but why the rudeness? Not everyone we disagree with is because they're being dishonest.
Uhh yes it is. If you want to engage in apologetics you need to actually represent the other sides arguments correctly. RZ still thinks orthodox Christian’s are against the idea that the Holy Spirit is within Jesus Christ when we just reject the idea that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Jesus
The video and audio are not well synced. All people have bias.
Also the issue of priest marriage was another thing that divided the church. The question, "Can men of God marry?" was disagreed upon, and the very nature of marriage (both with a love and as godly devotion to God) suggests that you're either for or against. You can't say, "He can only half marry!"
Silly dogma doesn't exist in heaven. Outside of the three core commands, disagreement, I think, puts a smile on God's face as it breeds more knowledge and thought. It's only when division and divorce becomes paramount as the church becomes prideful is when scowls begin to form on the face of man, and possibly God's great sigh. I can't wait to get to heaven and *not* get called a random denomination, as if heaven is divided up into sections or something.
Catholic: "See, all those others didn't make it!"
Each protestant denomination: "See, all those others didn't make it!"
Pfft
I noticed the sspx tag are you a sedevacantist?
I am not a sedevacantist.
@@ConfessionsofAConvert then you have earned a subscription I just try to not follow the schismatics.
you said the West was influenced by St. Dionysius, while the east Scholastic. I think you meant it to be the other way around.
No sir. The West’s canon law was fathered by St. Dionysius Exiguus, while the East largely followed St. John Scholasticus. Not to be mistaken with Scholastic theology (St. Thomas, Bl. Scotus, etc)
Orthodox and Catholics both believe that they are Schematic but not Heretical. Meaning the organization is split but they still share the same foundational beliefs. So beyond the human politics they are still the same church.
Im EO and I think maybe only the RCC believes the other is not heretical
EO definitely think RCC are heretical.
not really catholics are heretical. The pope authority is heretical as are many of its iventions
as a non denominationist i have no idea what either of you are talking about
Id recommend Kyle if yall want more Redeemed Zoomer critiuqes.
Look into contacting Jay Dyer for a discussion, god bless!
I think its very difficult for protestants to understand the orthodox way of worship let alone the Catholic. I believe its because they have a different point of view in theology and faith . The orthodox are people who live there life for god and they try to do all the prayers and fastings and they live calmly following and defending the old traditions most of these things protestants dont even consider to do they mostly live normally
In society but also believe in god on their free time while the orthodox are trying to escape the society because it blocks there spiritual path. But both protestants and orthodox in my opinion have a nice way of believing in god
off topic but I to watched Gamers guide to pretty much everything when I was younger lmao
As a Baptist his "rank of Christian denominations" was very inaccurate. Even that which he said of Orthodox and Catholic faiths were off (and as a Baptist you would expect me to skew towards criticism). Calling the Baptist movement anti-intellectual was probably one of the most ignorant things I've heard recently next to, "Charles Finney wasn't saved."
It is not a difficult thing to make videos ranting about subjects you are not informed on.
I couldn’t agree more, which is why my life’s mission is to resurrect the Arian Gothic Church.
2:05 whoa, he’s talking about the Schism and not mentioning the extensive history of Christianity having divisions dating back to James the Just vs Saul of Tarsus.
This is excellent work. I was raised Roman Catholic but I have a lot of friends who are Eastern Orthodox, I’ve dated a girl who was Russian Orthodox and a girl who was Greek Orthodox. Been to their masses and such. I really don’t have a problem with any faith that makes someone feel closer to our Creator.
Read your catechism’s
Audio and video are out of sync brother
Why do you have orthodox style icons as a Catholic? I know little to nothing about Catholicism.
Finally, someone speaks about this. I love Redeemed Zoomer but he's so incorrect about Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Catholic here
Come to Croatia, it is 90% Catholic country, with huge Catholic tradition(Pope has let Croatians have liturgy on peoples language in 11th century), may GOD bless you and your family. ✝️✝️✝️
Why do you think that Christians are so argumentative and divisive? It has always been the case and was a major argument of Celsus in his writings against Christianity and he has a point. We are supposed to note how much Christians love each other and the reverse is often the case.
It's not that Christians are divisive, humans are divisive. How many Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim sects are there? Hundreds, plus many newer religions inspired by them like Sikhism, Baha'i or Seicho-no-ie which have been brought into existence. Even Mormons have split, and they're only about 200 years old. If anything, the fact that half of all Christians in the world are still united in a single Catholic Church after 2000 years is surprising.
@@valerioluizfelipe Yes - I agree with your view that Christians as a whole are no different from any other group. Remember that Celsus was writing in the early period and Origen tried to refute him. We sing "They will know we are Christians by our love" and the truth is a little more nuanced. How long before the Roman Church splits?
@@adrianthomas1473 by Roman Church you mean the Catholic Church? If so, it has already split, that's what the Great Schism was all about. Jesus prayed for our unity though so it could be a sign of His message, so sure it will come a day where we will unite and we must be working on it. But as of now, Christians are just like any other group of humans.
@@valerioluizfelipeI think he meant the Catholic church now and the tensions with the traditional congregations.
@@tylere.8436 such a "tension" is mostly a North American feeling, and as someone from a majorly Catholic country it just sounds like a lot of USA Catholics think like Protestants (a lot of them are, in fact, converts), or the fake USA democracy with two parties that pretend to be opposites is shaping how those people look at the Church with polarized glasses. I know Protestant denominations often are split by those political lines, but Catholics have always had multiple acceptable political views and practices inside the boundaries of the Church. I won't be arguing about how the Church used to be structured, but as of today, the power is much centralized, to the point a split again like the Great Schism is impossible: those who side against the Pope will simply be out of the Church by definition.
Him saging we say the gospel is wrong was when i decidxed hes delusional and actuall doesnt understand our position
I'm a non-denominational Christian who watches a lot of Redeemed Zoomer, and I care far far less about what divides us than about what unites us. Let's work together to make disciples rather than begin arguments with each other.
100% agree
Come to Catholicism 🇻🇦✝️