ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2022
- I hate it when tier lists combine the two Clouds.
Made possible by my awesome Patreons: / whydo
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I've been using Cloud for years, and I feel like I've always been somewhat aware something was off about Cross Slash. But once I really started to think about it, and look into it, things only got weirder. Before I knew it, I was obsessed with this beautiful, ridiculous move. So today, let's take a look at the only asymmetrical attack in Smash, and all of its very very silly implications.
Source gaming interview:
sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/...
Cloud meme source:
/ 1597864029707710464
Big knight small knight meme artwork source:
www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/559...
Thanks to Thor and Hindsight for playing Cloud dittos with me for this video!
Also thanks to Doog, Flameburst97 & MoonBear for the quality gameplay footage
Music used:
Jake Kaufman - Herbal Empire
various songs from the Transport Tycoon 2014 Soundtrack as usual!
Jake Kaufman - Chefinoff
Jake Kaufman - Lab 1 (Double Dragon 2 - Mission 1)
MvC2 - Training Mode
Slime Rancher - Viktor's Workshop Theme
Street Fighter 6 - E. Honda's Theme: Kumadori
Jake Kaufman - Unreleased 3DS Game from Choice Nuggets
RoR2 - Out of Whose Womb Came the Ice
Slime Rancher - Dry Reef Theme
Kevin MacLeod - Open Those Bright Eyes
pikuniku - Free Money! - เกม
![เก่งแต่ลับหลัง (FINSTA) - ส้ม มารี (Zom Marie) Ft. Punch 4EVE [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OOolBU2aC70/mqdefault.jpg)
Sephiroth's single orb shadow flare always strikes from the right so if you have a reflector it's advantageous to be to the left of him so a reflected orb can hit him
Yet the direction of the reflected orbs is random (with a pronounced bias) because this is smash bros
😐
unless you're bayonetta or sora since they don't change the direction
@@gentlefauna wait TRUE
Wtf I never thought about this, that's hilarious. This whole time I've been spododging the orb "the 2nd time it reaches my right side" and I never even stopped to consider how that means it doesn't flip. Truly Ff7 characters don't care about puny Earth concepts like "symmetrical fighting games."
The only other thing I was considering was Shulk's menu never flipping, so left gives you jump, right gives you buster, etc. which can make the same input harder on left vs. right!
I spend hours in the lab and I found a neat Right Cloud tech that is the ultimate counterplay. If you push the stick to the right, Cloud will do this weird animation that I like to call "turning around". He'll enter a state where his side-b hitbox gets altered and it might be just as good as Left Cloud's.
So he has a limit break AND a transformation? Either ban Cloud or ban this weird 'joystick right' tech you described.
Banger
The strange thing happens to Left Cloud too! If the control stick is pushes left instead, his side B gets NERFED, making it as strong as Right Cloud's :(
That's a lesser known glitch. It causes all of his animations to be HORIZONTALLY MIRRORED with the exception of Side-B. It's actually a very similar glitch to the ones that made King K. Rool and the Koopalings play their animations in REVERSE, so it's a banned technique!
@@thinkublu save it for EVO son
Left cloud? Right cloud? The only Cloud I know is the one on Yoshi's Story.
he has a name, damn it, it's RANDALL!
Put some RESPECT on RANDALL'S NAME!
You dare disrespect the fallen God RANDALL!? You sicken me!
Randall is my idol
But on what side of Yoshi's story is Randall better?
The year is 20FF. Everyone plays Cloud at TAS levels of perfection. Because of this, the winner of a match depends on who starts on the left side of the stage.
20FF is for jigglypuff
It’s 20CC
@@gabrielstrong7322It's 20FF because of Final Fantasy
@@Skioushicinal cantasy
@@Skioushi 20CC because cloud
The Cloud meta is evolving ban Cloud
Nah we have to ban Steve
@@FilletFish778 fuck it, ban everyone no more ultimate \j
@@icegod4849 I’m on board with this
@@icegod4849 Reject ultimate, return to brawl.
*sings in latin*
ban left cloud
“but this is smash brothers, and we know things can never be that simple”
Makes so much more sense, I’ve been losing to my friend cause I play right cloud, thank you so much for the advice
I just witnessed the birth of an entirely new excuse for losing... beautiful. The john meta is evolving
@@WhyDo You didn’t just witness the birth of a new John, you practically created it yourself.
@@WhyDo This is your john. He is your responsibility now. Remember to use protection!
@@WhyDo and this is why I don't play the game anymore lol
@@WhyDo pay John support or ima sue
I cannot possibly express my enjoyment that I have finally found another fish spatula enjoyer. Best kitchen tool hands down. Also your comedic style is still amazing good stuff.
You would not believe the things I have made my fish spatula do to food. We have been through hell and back together but it is always there to meet my unreasonable demands with grace and durability. It has truly earned the right to call itself my comrade in arms.
@@WhyDo I spent a stupid amount of money on one made in a proper forge and it'll probably last me the rest of my lifetime. That thing cost objectively too much money but I will never say getting it commissioned was a mistake. The strongest weapon in my kitchen arsenal by far.
@@harryreynolds3057 You got one COMMISSIONED??? That is so sick wtf. If I were you I would invite people over to cook with me, and leave a cheap fish spatula from amazon on the counter, so when my friends go to reach for it I could be like "oh no don't use that cheap one use the one I COMMISSIONED" and then slowly pull out the hand wrought fish spatula from its ornate hand carved box
TRUE
@@WhyDo Yeah man my dad has commissioned proper carving knives from them before and I brought up the possibility of a fish spatula which they'd never done before. They were interested as an experiment and so I got to commission one for a lower price than usual because of family connections.
I haven’t started the video, but I am very excited to figure out how in the world this could be 15 minutes long
It could of been condensed into 3 minutes really
@@asrathz1196 never
@@asrathz1196 I coulda done it in 3 seconds.
@@asrathz1196 Much less. Look: Cloud Side-B different each side. Right hit short, Left hit tall. Cloud tall, so Left better in Ditto.
Done.
@@CommentPositionInformer literally saved me 15 minutes. I clicked on the video expecting it to be 2 minutes not 15, I don't give that much of a fuck to fully watch this so ur a goat
This is beautiful
It almost makes me want to analyze hundreds of tournament matches and create a comprehensive list of every time the side that Cloud is on has mattered
Do it !
Cloud should have a taunt or input that lets him switch hands
(At first I thought this video was gonna be about flipping cloud mod but that wouldn't change anything lol)
Sounds like hell
As a proud member of the Elite "knew about left vs right Cloud since Smash 4" group, here is a hilarious trivia fact
Cloud actually writes the kanji with a completely wrong stroke order in both the original Final Fantasy VII and in the Remake, as he finishes it off with the x in the middle, rather than the box, which is the correct version; a fact that Sakurai himself explicitly pointed out when discussing Cloud's implementation previously, but decided to have Cloud use correct caligraphy in his game because he wanted correct caligraphy regardless
Smash forced him to fix his handwriting ☠️
Sakurai really said "we gotta buff his literacy"
Hey, I think It's very in character for cloud to write it wrong. Think about it, he's a faker constantly trying to make himself look cooler.
Imagine his line of thinking, he realizes that cutting caligraphy would make him look very very cool, cus it's artsy or whatever, but like, he doesn't know caligraphy very well, and ends up doing it wrong, while acting like he's hot shit
@@zoromax10 No, that is not in character for Cloud at all. The real reason is that it simply looks cooler for an attack to finish off with an x rather than a box, despite it technically being incorrect stroke order. And that's all it is, stroke order; the kanji is not wrong or misspelled, Japanese is just insistent on a specific stroke order. You wouldn't see a mistake if you didn't see Cloud write it.
@@jonahdewitt2158 that's not how kanji works actually. Someone experienced in Japanese calligraphy will be able to tell if you used correct stroke order or not based on thickness, direction, and connection between brush strokes.
Which kinda furthers the point- most people wouldn't notice, cloud is smart enough to know that he doesn't have to do it right to get the same effect, because he doesn't care about actually cutting out kanji, he cares about how cool it looks
I personally like SoundCloud
Me too
Ikr
Yeah. That mod looks really cool.
My mod mentioned? W
@@PaleBl_nk Yooo. The Legend themselves.
I prefer front facing cloud tbh, keeping eye contact is always important.
Thank you WhyDo, as a Cloud player I can now blame all my losses on my spawn position instead of my own lack of skill!
1:00 left cloud, right cloud, can we just appreciate this hard ass read?
This is the best way to gaslight your Cloud "friends", thanks WhyDo.
Apparently the mold rating thing refers to the Howard Mold Count method, which basically boils down to "if I take a sample and split it into 50 pieces, how many of them have any mold in them?" So 75% would be something like "38 of these sub-samples have mold in them."
Less distressing than the jam literally being 75% mold, but honestly still pretty hard core.
I learned this specifically because of this video.
Right Cloud gang.
buying a fish spatula now thank you whydo
This is the real reason I made this video. To spread fish spatula propaganda and introduce everyone to the best cooking tool
I took some Japanese classes, and I can testify that they care a whole lot about stroke order in those types of languages. So this actually doesn’t really surprise me, actually
Actually actually , actually.
Believe it or not, stroke orders does actually make a difference in writing the words. Try writing them out of wack or from the final step to the first etc. You'll be hating yourself in no time
Source : I've tried it myself.
@@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong do you hate yourself?
They only care because you need to learn the rules but some people write however they want, actually
@@YounesLayachi same actually, like actually actually.
God, this makes so much sense from the writing standpoint but hurts from a gameplay standpoint
imagine 8 player smash and it’s just a bunch of clouds trying to be on the left of all the other ones the entire time
Randall the Cloud easily beats all other Clouds
Correct
But even there I would say right cloud is better since it comes out of the wall lower down and then moves you up rather when the left randall comes out high and moves down. Luckily they already rps for port priority in melee
@@broor oh shit you're right
Nah Fox McCloud is the best
If I was a Cloud main I would change my tag to Randal bcs only some ppl will get the joke and it will be worth it
This kind of devolved into the "trick your opponent into using nuclear arms" during chess meme.
The awkward moment when the differences between Cloud and Cloud are more significant than Peach and Daisy, or Simon and Richter...
Those have differences besides taunts and voicelines?
@ Richter and Simon's down b has a different hitbox type (Simon's is fire, Richter's is aura)
Daisy, before version 3.0.0, had slightly different turnips (they were better for combos at high percents). Now she's near identical.
(EDIT: corrected what special was different for Simon/Richter)
@@nfsman3452I remember Richter feeling faster than Simon at launch which made combos a bit easier
@@nfsman3452 This makes a difference in the Olimar matchup because red pikmin will be immune to Simon's down b but not Richter's.
but now we have to go even deeper.. does Left Randall beat Right Randall??
Hey mysticat
no
Always love how the pacing and quality of jokes in your videos on extremely obscure topics make it feel like I didn't just spend 15 minutes watching a video about the hitboxes of a singular move. I will now spread this cursed knowledge to everyone I know.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up that the left-right advantage also applies to any matchup where one character's left facing self is a mirror image of their right, while the other's is a 180° rotation. The main difference is that Cloud's discrepancy is across the X-axis, while the Inter-character discrepancy is across the Z-axis. It's even less relevant most of the time, but it's very much a thing.
Yes, which is why the Z axis shouldn't exist and smash should at least offer a 2D toggle to make all stages flat like duck hunt & flatzone
True, there is def some hurtbox weirdness that would've been good to talk about - Cloud's difference is just so glaring and clearly impactful compared to other similar jank that I had to focus on it specifically. Like in the move scripts the Z axis offset (edit: which I believe corresponds to the x axis on screen) is literally coded to be different for left cloud's LCS final hit vs. right cloud's, it's just so wild to me haha. Learning how to pick & choose what to include in a video to keep a balance between info & length is always a WIP so I appreciate feedback like this!
You wouldn‘t even need to turn the whole stage flat visually. You could just extend hitboxes across the z-axis infinitely, which I don‘t get why this isn’t done universally (except that hitboxes are probably a feature handled by the engine and you‘d have to tamper with it to fix that)
@@marzipancutter8144 The way I'd imagine it working is calculating the hitboxes' positions relative to their animation bones, converting that to positions in the universal grid, then setting the Z coordinate to 0. Characters still get to be 3D, but now only 2 of those Ds matter for the 2D platform fighter.
@@robhillen8007 Yeah, that could work. I thought you could change the hitbox detection to ignore the third coordinate altogether, but your take would require less tampering with how coordinates are handled internally.
Shulk also has asymmetry baked into his kit because of monado art positioning. Since jump art is on the left, it's easier to recover from the right side than the left (since holding left when you're off the right side of the stage to select jump will make you drift towards the stage.) There are ways to play around this, like switching to jump early or using the smash 4 style art selection, but I have still lost sets because I have fewer recovery mixups on the left side.
6:27 your making a good point its probably easier to pick up stuff from the pan ill take that into consideration when im shopping for cooking tools
Whydo yet again posting the most fucking amazing content on this app. Never would I have cared about tiny things like this but now that I’m no longer spending all of my time eating jam and spaghetti I can spend all of my time having a mental breakdown of why tf this exists
You unironically inspired me to buy a fish spatula
I AM GLAD!!!! You can use it to flip stuff over so easily when you pan fry, transfer baked goods to a cooking rack, even cut stuff like brownies... the versatility will change your life I swear
"A skilled right Cloud..."
You really had to say it
10:21 I had to look into that because it was absoudre. What I found was that 75% mold count is actually a defect and they were going over a specific issue with one batch of jam. The real amount they allow is 30% mold. Which is still a LOT for sure
edit: nvm. I saw all the resources I were finding were for cherry jam. Blackcurrant jam (as the one shown in the video) is allowed 75% mold count
op, nvm. I edited my original comment
I tried looking up wtf a "mold count" is and all I learned is that there are apparently several hundred mold spores in every room everywhere always and it's normal??
@@guy-sl3kr wait until you find out about mushrooms
mold is fruit yeast it's fine
@@guy-sl3kr I looked it up too, and apparently the FDA uses something called the "Howard mold count method" and the 75% does not refer to the amount of the jam which is mold, it refers to how many microscope fields (when the microscope is set up in a particular way for the Howard method) have visible mold. Up to 75% of fields can be positive for mold hyphae, but those might actually only be a miniscule fraction of the % of the jam. ~The More you Know ~ *
An underrated part of this video is just how incredibly fucking funny WhyDo is, the jokes, the spatula tangent, the image choices, all in a video that's also super informative
It's a whole standup performance hidden under a video about smashy brothers
8:13 "Having two Clouds on screen..."
I can see several clouds onscreen there. Most are just in the background.
It’s pretty funny that left and right cloud have more meaningful differences than multiple echo fighters in this game
daisy and?
@@vecvecvec Dark Samus. Lucina.
@ dark samus yes, lucina what the hell are you talking about they are completely different
@@vecvecvec Just Marth with no tipper.
@ as a former marth main i can tell you that leads to a pretty significant difference in playstyle. lucina is good at spacing but doesnt need to rely on it, and a lot of moves are better on marth or vice versa depending on how consistent the marth version is (marths tilts are overall better, lucinas aerials are better)
Of course, the only character with a distinct gameplay difference in his Final Smash depending on his costume, is also the only character in the game with a hitbox difference depending on facing left or right.
Cloud is just built uniquely.
popping up sakurai's 'Microtransactions' at 3:12 was fucking hilarious. god tier jokes
The last hit on limit cross slash has more range for Left Cloud because the last hit is the rightmost stroke of the kanji, which is farther from Left Cloud while closer to Right Cloud because of the perspective. That's the reason.
i feel like this is gonna have a similar impact to the gimr phantom footstool tech. every time it happens everyone is gonna point it out and be like "yoooo it's the whydo"
I didn't know there was a left cloud
Ok so first off. Thank you I’m not a big cloud player but I did subconsciously pick up on these facts. And was like “why is the hit box on this move so unreliable” not realizing it was simply the direction I was facing
Super cool and interesting video. Well out together too. Thumbs up!
The only move that isn't mirrored
I Like Right Cloud more since it has “chewy caramel on crisp cookie, cloaked in velvety chocolate” whereas Left Cloud has “smooth caramel on crunchy cookie, enveloped in creamy chocolate.” There’s a big difference for sure.
14:15 “In loving memory of Panda Global”
BRUTAL.
Sorry I’m out of the loop can someone enlighten me on what happened
@@dee7352 The short version is that it recently came to light that Panda Global's CEO, Alan Bunney, has:
- been abusing Panda's position of being backed by Nintendo to intimidate tournament organizers into being part of the Panda Cup
- may or may not have been (but probably were) involved in Nintendo's last-minute decision to effectively block Smash World Tour from operating all the way through 2023, particularly considering that both Nintendo and Panda gave statements where they basically just jerked each other off
This has backfired in spectacular fashion for Panda - signed players are leaving en masse and the organization probably won't last much longer. Keep in mind this is all very recent (past week or so) so it's still an ongoing situation.
Can we get a spatula tier list sometime? I've never even thought about that there might be a superior spatula before. Does left fish spatula beat right fish spatula?
The only other time I can think of something like this is Mr. Heart in the arcsys Fist of the North Star fighting game. Left and right Mr Heart are apparently so different the dust loop wiki counts them as separate characters.
Just looked it up, that's hilarious. "When playing as player 2, all of his attacks gain increased hitstun." No way LMAO
This explains so much about why I can’t anti air with this move sometimes. Also. If you go watch the MainStage 2022 grand finals you’ll see the smaller hit box on right cloud whiff multiple times on tweek’s shield throughout the set early on.
I’m glad WhyDo is always there to deliver information that’ll make my day slightly worse whenever I need him
Your comedic timing is always biting and extremely incisive, so that In Memoriam at the end was like going for the jugular. I loved it. Great vid, great editing, great humor.
The thing is, in Cloud duels and Smash in general, they move from left to right so much that it actually sort of cancels itself out into even.
Dude your videos are so great, keep up the good work!
Dude btw your comedic style and timing is faaaarrrr too good. Like seriously, you manage so many good jokes but not too much to distract from the video, and it works soooo well that you’re now one of my favorite TH-camrs period!
I'm glad a whole video was made about this. I remember being fascinated when I noticed that the calligraphy was the same no matter where Cloud was on the map, but I was too lazy to look into it.
It baffles me that they didn't just change the visuals and keep the hitbox the same. I doubt many people would notice the slight discrepancy between the visuals and hitbox, and the people who do would probably be more bothered by left cloud.
Honestly I think the hit box should just be a straight vertical instead of slanted, that way it's the same on both sides with a less pronounced discrepancy between visual and hitbox
broo what people would notice the buggy hitbox sooo damn quick wdym the hitboxes being consistent with the animation is the reason why this is obscure. the moment one person found out they'd go into training and test it and then let people know
The thing is that this is a game developed by Japanese and nintendo's homeground is Japan.
Dude have you seen Cloud mains? They noticed discrepancies between animation and hitboxes all the time.
I'm gonna go watch a Cloud ditto now :)
This guy is a front for the big fish spatula lobby
Holy smokes. The editing and quips were top notch! Subbed so I get more left cloud meta.
I'm so glad someone sees this the same way I do! I'm not alone in this aspect and it's really cool you're pointing this out. Limit Cross slash does look like the blue French fry attack! So glad we feel the same, and thanks for spreading the news!
me: *enjoying spaghetti *
the video: 0:52
me: 🤤
Extra protein
As a cloud main since day one ultimate you open my eyes and my brain shoot it self from seing this mind blowing thing
Awesome video as always. And the Durarara reference is just the cherry on top!
Love how out of nowhere he just started talking about fish spatula and why it is the best spatula and that we should own one
u where right tho, what a masterpiece
Yeah, very informative video. Btw i love my right hand most of all (it hits people harder than left)
Someone needs to make a mod where you can pick left and right cloud so that the hitboxes are the same on each side depending on which side of cloud you choose that will make my day
this is my new favorite smash bros video. you've truly refined almost every aspect of your prior videos.
Ok I feel dumb, I only knew of you from Twitter and had no idea you make amazing YT content. Subscribed.
Also, shoutout to the shoutout of fish spatulas-- you're so right
the cloud ditto is truly a 60/40 matchup
51/49
Brawl Snake moment
@@Luigiofthegodswhat was special about Brawl Snake?
@@velvetbutterfly In Brawl, whenever one person is grabbing another, and both of them get hit at the same time (for example, by a explosion), the lower port player always gets knocked back while the higher port player takes the damage but no knockback, meaning regardless if Player 1 grabs Player 2 or vice versa, Player 1 always gets launched. Since Brawl Snake does this all the time by grabbing the opponent next to his grenade, down smash, or C4, it's important that he gets the higher port so he can actually follow up from it, and in the Snake ditto, this unbalances the matchup enough to the point where it's not considered even.
I thought Marth might have the same issue with his aerials attacks since he turns his body. But no, clouds issue is strikingly different.
I liked every joke in this video but the one that got me to laugh the most was the “in loving memory of panda global” at the end lmao
I love the editing!!
The real question about clouds is whether Randal is better on the left or right
We need a character with a completely different left and right moveset.
Amazing video. Absolutely well made. Subbed!! 🙏🏼🔥
Gotta admit, my favorite cloud has to be Cumulonimbus calvus. You see one on the distance and you just know you’ll have a good thunderstorm. Cumulus clouds are also pretty good but a little basic in my opinion.
10:28
Bro WHAT
I solo main left cloud. I will refuse to play right cloud. I am a certified right cloud hater. The only thing worse than people who play right cloud are people who play ambidextrous cloud. You shouldn't be allowed a free counter pick mid set by switching clouds.
Really good video, this was super fun to watch
I might just be totally wrong because it’s been a minute since I checked, but there’s a particular case of this in Tekken 7 that’s kinda nuts. The character armor king has a combo starter that is a hugely important and effective tool for starting combos, but it only works if he’s facing right. So an armor king ditto is actually impacted by which side you are on.
I cany believe they put politics in my smash🤬🤬🤬🤬😡
Incredible video! I can't unsee this now and hold you personally responsible!
The algorithm is loving this one!!! Great vid Whydo!!
cloud dittos are going to be so funny to watch while they fight for the left side of the map
i found your channel the other day and i gotta say i love your content! good humor and uselessly informative!! i would love it if you made videos about other things than smash bros (even tho smash bros is very interesting). regardless, keep doing what you're doing and i'll stay tuned!!
I sit blindfolded. A woman in a lab coat feeds me a Cloud.
"Left."
She marks her notes. 329 consecutive correct guesses.
13:38 realized you werent talking about actual clouds with cool smash gameplay in the background
This feels like how falcon’s skin changes his ecb in melee, green falcon beats neutral falcon
I haven't played smash in over a year, but I really enjoyed this video. You did a great job.
I think Smash Jank is some of my favorite stuff in gaming. Thank you for making the days you upload so much more entertaining.
Also I'm gonna have a hard time sleeping with that FDA knowledge what the fuck
singlehandedly the best smash video i've watched with an independent cooking utensil ad in it
This is a really great video. I’ll keep this in mind next time I’m buying spatulas.
The FDA related facts made me cry throughout the rest of the video that I couldn’t even focus on whether big brother likes to use the left or right side of his brain the most? Ah, why?? My life is a lie?? Is this what despair feels like??
WhyDo: "How Left Cloud might actually beat Right Cloud!"
Also WhyDo: *shows Right Cloud winning*
The balance of weird yet interesting niche info w/ good pacing & great comedic pacing & good commentary is top tier.
I really like your comedic style!
Informative and funny. Excellent work.
Dead serious glad for you opinion of fish spatulas. Definitely buying two of them
This was pretty entertaining for a video about a slight hitbox difference on one attack
Thank you for passing on this incredible information. Fish spatulas are definitely way to go when cooking.