but can you generate gold in a diplomacy game if you set your persian ally to neutral and let them feed you his elite elephants? maybe with monks to heal too.
also, the other unit lines of the tatars are way more appealing, since the Keshiks are so expensive you could get instead get husars with the +1P armor bonus. You'll probably go for Cav Archers too, and I would prefer more of their very strong cav archers instead of some melee cav with mediocre stats P.S.: Tatars were totally imba in beta, dont know if they still are though.
@@sandromension4529 Yeah, the Vikings one. Maybe they are holding that mechanic for Age IV, but with this unit something with markets, docs and TCs could also work quite well. Or who knows, even mines and camps...
the main problem as SOTL mentioned is that then you will have a bunch of keshiks farm gold infinitly by stabbing into a wall. though, i could see them making this change, just not allowing them to get gold from any walls and farms.
I think the gold should come from destroying a building and be based on its price. Wall would give next to nothing and takes for ever. Something like a castle or wonder in niche cases would bring the cash. I feel like the gold from units should work the same way. Maybe 5%.
Hey Spirit, love your content. It might be interesting to set up a test, where you have 10 Keshiks fight 10 of an enemy unit and have enemy units respawn when killed. Sort of an analysis of how much money a keshik might earn over their lifespan if they continually fight until they are dead. Then you could repeat with different enemy unit types to see how much Keshiks pay for themselves when used as a response to various units.
It should gain gold converted as how much resource the buildings they attack costed; a house that costed 30 wood then generates, for instance, 10 gold, and you get 10 gold / 900 HP (house HP), for example, then every 90 HP damage Keshiks do to such house, they gain back 1 gold. So it would make sense to raid buildings, but useless against walls and cheap ones.
This is one of the things that really annoyed me about AoE2 and was hoping that will be fixed in DE, there is a whole host of units whos animations are not synced with their attack speed. Most annoying when I see my guy hit his guy on 1 hp with at sword so i micro him away only to see that he didnt kill him...
This bonus seems like it was designed to give SOTL something to talk about, more so than to drastically revolutionise AOE gameplay. A perfectly valid purpose I must say.
You would need 3 monks per keshik in that case, if the Keshiks are unupgraded and your "Ally" has loom. Reducing the damage the Keshiks to 1, like attacking Teutonic knights, lets you have 1 monk for 4 Keshiks. 7 if you involve byzantines.
That lame tactic is why I think this unit is stupid. Raiding generating gold has a historical basis as well, but we didn't have kingdoms forming secret pacts to raid each other just to generate magical gold (cos, you know they actually lost their own gold that way). And it's a lame tactic that's bad in a gaming sense too (military units turned into mail-wearing farmers?!), and I don't think any pro players will use it precisely because of it being lame and cheesy (also trade is better, and also doesn't require an alliance). I'd rather have the devs alter the unit to actually raid i.e. generate a little gold for you AND take it away from the enemy you're attacking. Then we wouldn't have people coming up with these lame infinite gold ideas, and it makes the unit a whole lot more useful as well. Since the amount of gold generated and stolen is (as the video shows) small, I don't think it'd be particularly unbalanced.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I agree in its current state it's dumb, but if it's changed to be less worth than trade then it would be ok I guess .. issue is they would be even more useless if they generated less gold x) then I guess your idea of stealing resources from opponent is nice. It's something I've had in mind for quite a while now : I wish defeating an enemy would grant me his buildings/units in FFA (would still have to define what defeating mean).
@Hoàng Nguyên I believe Tudsamfa is right saying Teutonic knights would be better : what matters is not how much health you have but the rate at which it goes down/up (so armor vs heal rate of monk). Not sure about elephants but I think they have less armor than teutonic knights against melee attack, so on average it would take more monks to maintain them alive. That said, I believe you'll always need at least 1 monk per unit being attacked because I don't think the monk will have time to switch healed unit if the one he's healing is still taking damage .. so in the end an elephant might do.
That's creative, but a trade cart is also comparable to a dark age gold miner. It looks like a constantly attacking Keshik will have a slightly better gold rate over one trade cart on a bad trade route, but considering your plan requires atleast three units (Keshik, target, and monk), it's just better to make three trade carts.
I find it pretty awful. Looks like he's hiding a dwarf under his cape, walks like he just pooped his pants, and also the attacking animation is ridiculous with that whole -unsheathing, attacking and sheathing the wepon again- cycle.
That extra gold you get from healed Keshiks lasting longer in battle, gets balanced by the extra gold you need to spend to make a bunch of monks. I don't know how much more convenient it would be, as opposed to having no monks. Would be interesting if SOTL did an analysis of that !
That lame tactic is why I think this unit is stupid. Raiding generating gold has a historical basis as well, but we didn't have kingdoms forming secret pacts to raid each other just to generate magical gold (cos, you know they actually lost their own gold that way). And it's a lame tactic that's bad in a gaming sense too (military units turned into mail-wearing farmers?!), and I don't think any pro players will use it precisely because of it being lame and cheesy (also trade is better, and also doesn't require an alliance). I'd rather have the devs alter the unit to actually raid i.e. generate a little gold for you AND take it away from the enemy you're attacking. Then we wouldn't have people coming up with these lame infinite gold ideas, and it makes the unit a whole lot more useful as well. Since the amount of gold generated and stolen is (as the video shows) small, I don't think it'd be particularly unbalanced.
Plan: Another Tatar ally and I nominally switch to hostile, then send our Keshiks to fight each other, with enough monks to keep them healthy. Infinite gold?
The most efficient setup is 1 Monk, 1 Teutonic knight and 4 Keshiks in a group. 7 Keshiks if your "opponent" has a byzantine ally. It generates a modest amount of gold, but even medium sized trade routes use your population limit more wisely. If you have absolutly no map control, it is still the second worst infinite generator after Malays infinite fish.
That lame tactic is why I think this unit is stupid. Raiding generating gold has a historical basis as well, but we didn't have kingdoms forming secret pacts to raid each other just to generate magical gold (cos, you know they actually lost their own gold that way). And it's a lame tactic that's bad in a gaming sense too (military units turned into mail-wearing farmers?!), and I don't think any pro players will use it precisely because of it being lame and cheesy (also trade is better, and also doesn't require an alliance). I'd rather have the devs alter the unit to actually raid i.e. generate a little gold for you AND take it away from the enemy you're attacking. Then we wouldn't have people coming up with these lame infinite gold ideas, and it makes the unit a whole lot more useful as well. Since the amount of gold generated and stolen is (as the video shows) small, I don't think it'd be particularly unbalanced.
@Hoàng Nguyên Nothing is wrong with them, but they are the worst civ-specific way to generate infinte gold. With everything else being equal, the spanish can reliably generate the most gold through trade, followed by indians, aztecs are slightly better than average with their relics, everyone else trading is here, depending on the market for stone portuguese come next, I would assume tartars should trade instead of using this setup i described, and malay should definetly just trade instead of selling their infinite food. That doesn't make it a bad bonus, but it is definetly bad if your goal is gold generation.
I believe the offset should be made by gains from destroying certain buildings such as a castle or church or even town center. Gaining a ton more gold through destruction of structures would make keshiks worth more as a unit.
@@thedude2131 There is an option to buy both Age of Empires 2 (2013) and Age of Empires 2 Defiinitive Edition as a bundle on its store page, which turns out cheaper than buying DE by itself if you already own the 2013 version on Steam
@@jwpark3693 during a siege in China, the Mongols used cannibalism on their own troops, randomly choosing who would get eaten. I assume cannibalism happened every now and there when food supplies were critically low.
I like it, it's like the soldiers loot the corpses of the enemy they kill, it won't be enough to fill the coffers of the empire, but it is at least something, the looted gold makes up for the gold that exceeds usual heavy cav gold cost.
These guys remind me of...I think it was the Aztecs in Rise of Nations? They couldn't farm or make camps for any basic resources, but got a constant trickle bonus for every kill and every unit alive. Needless to say they tended to quit after a single battle went south.
Step 1. Convince an enemy to throw vast numbers of villagers into a vulnerable position with no defenses but a 25% hill bonus in a post-imperial setting where the villagers have all the upgrades they can get. Step 2. Build a few Keshiks. Step 3. For every villager they lose, tribute them some gold, but not all of it. Step 4. They use the market to convert that gold into wood extremely efficiently, then use the wood to build farms. With the right civs that could be enough to make a net profit in food. Step 5. They use the farms to build more villagers.
Buildings that can fight back, should generate gold. Unique towers, Malay upgraded docks, Castles, Kreposts, Keep line, Bombard towers and of course, where all the gold is stored - the Towncenter. Houses, walls, military production etc makes sense.
Monks should be an important part for this civ. Probably good for raiding and choosing good engagements - e.g. catching a group of skirmishers or archers.
The unit concept is probably taken from Age of Mythology, which has a couple of myth units that generate gold in combat (and vikings generate favor in combat, which other civs have to build buildings or assign villagers to a temple for).
Can you go over the "Steppe Husbandry" unique tech for the Cumans? The technology says it effects light cavalry and cavalry archers, but does that include Hussars, Kipchaks, and Steppe Lancers which in their description says they are light cavalry?
That would make it a lethal long term anti-trash unit. Your dead trash is funding your opponent's later trash. You're going to get ground down and spat out.
I don't know how the engine words in DE,or if it's the same Genie Engine as the former games,but as a modder,I can guarantee your idea is unfeasable without changing pretty much every unit.I have an idea of how Keshiks work and the comparison with the gold miner is accurate,since you can mod units to collect resources like that. I would fix them by raising the amount of god they collect,or give them healing ability,or even give some Lituanian-ish relic bonus like how they have more attack on cavalry depending on the amount of relics,or I would just give better monks for Tatars to heal their units faster,or even having different rates for different classes of units(To stimulate their raiding capabilities,making higher profit by attacking vils,monks and trade carts).
@@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person I like that last option, get gold while attacking villagers, trading units, and resource buildings (Including TC and also docks and market)
@@napoleoncomplex2712 Actually, it's the exact mechanic of Cash Bounty from GLA in Command and Conquer Generals. But every faction in that game get Feitoria-like buildings/units to generate infinite resource in the late game so it balanced out as everyone can spam units at each other forever anyway. GLA just need it to spam more to balanced out their sub-par units compared to China and USA.
I actually would like that for everyone. But only with wood, stone and gold. Killing a unit or destroying a building gives you a 5-7-10% (depending of techs) of their cost. Maybe meso civs could get cannibalism, getting the food cost of all units; and maybe some other civs could get it only from cavalry ( civs that were historically more prone to eat horses, camels and/or elephants)
Another way of looking at gold generated is to see how much gold a keshik would generate before it dies (against hussars, pikes, skirms, cavaliers, champions etc). Group size can be an issue here but something standard can be assumed. Food for thought.
I can see a meme strat where instead of (or along with) tradeing, two players build a half-army of Keshik's and "fight" eachother with monks to ensure neither loses any units. a small group of them would be equivalent to a entire, continuous gold-mining group
The bonus is effectively negligible, but if you can keep them alive from battle to battle, they recoup a small percentage of their own cost, which is pretty neat, even if impractical.
How much resources do monks generate? e.g. healing of high cost units, converting enemy units or buildings? Are monks the strongest economic unit? (while having the most DPS as a converted unit is 'killed')
Idea for Diplogames: Get a neutral "teamplayer", attack his elephant/paladin/high HP unit while he is healing it for unlimited gold - you need to pay some tribute to the guy of course
I think a good test for this would be to fight a series of 1v1 battles against the same unit type until the Keshik dies to see how the matchups compare for gold generation over the life of the keshik.
Even though I don't play AoE 2 for the moment, I like your channel, and your content is very interesting. It makes me want to play to AoE2 again. So thank you for your work, I think we all appreciate it very much ! I have a question though. Why did you name your channel Spirit of the Law ? Is it an hommage to Montesquieu's book or is there another story behind this name ?
It seems like there's a micro-intense strat to be had where you cycle teams of Keshiks back to your monks when they get hurt, and cycle another team forward. I doubt it would make all the gold investment back, they're both gold intensive units, but I think you could make a lot of gold with it, and it seems worth it.
So essentially it's a unit whose cost scales depending on the player's skill level. A handful of these clearing up enemy stragglers and stuff like skirms could be very good value over time, especially if they are able to perform decently even without the Elite upgrade. And with a decent enough lead they turn into something of a 'win more' type of unit, as the enemy's already unfavorable fights end up feeding you more gold on top of everything else. Can't wait to see them in action to find out if the numbers actually hold up to the theory.
Would love if it worked against some buildings. Castles, towers, tech buildings. Production buildings. Thees are the kind of buildings players normally want to protect anyway.
I think the way to test this might be to try and see how much gold they generate over their lifetime, depending on what they're fighting, i.e. how much gold do they get when they continually fight Hussars until death, etc. In theory, the way to use these guys is to throw them at weaker units where they will take little damage.
Seem like an odd mechanic to get gold per attack vs for every kill. Got me thinking, though, you should get resources when destroying an enemy market. Disrupting their economy could evolve into raids on their market for gold.
reminds me a little of the vikings in age of mythology. they benefitted from fighting by generating faith, which also was a resource. but as things are now, they arent worth it. you would have to have a trash war while still having some left with a few monks to heal them up again. the keshik should have quite a bit more health and defense in exchange for some attack and speed. that way, they would be a tanky unit that fights for longer, is better to micromanage and generate more gold without adjusting the gold rate. also it would give the keshik a unique role. as things are now, he is just a worse paladin in every way.
one exception: If, in a diplo game, two players agreed to work together such that one sent out a Keshik and the other sent out a unit w/ monks, while the person with a Keshik enemied the other and was not enemied in return, the Keshik could attack the unit indefinitely, provided the monks healed it continuously. the number of monks would be (12-y)/2.5
New idea: They actually work as raiders and instead of this fighting shenanigans, they can carry a portion of resources from killing trade carts/vills with resources
I am happy that the commend I made about when people introduce civilisations SpiritoftheLaw is going to make a video about how much keshiks generate gold I am %100 accurate
Perhaps the most viable way to use their gold generating capability is to protect those Keshiks with monks to heal them and keep them alive for longer time, thus making them more profitable per unit. If you don’t have to create mor of them to fill up the loses the results would improve.
Keshiks are alchemists that change the part of the enemy they hit into small chunks of gold. Doesn’t work on buildings or other stuff because their philosopher’s stone spear feeds on life force :p
I see them as a way to generate gold in a pinch later in the game depending on the Situation. You burn some gold now to get the units and you make back some of the gold later when you may need it.
FriedOrange it would be possible it’s just different pre-rendered sprites just like how the units work. The only reason I think they didn’t do it is so buildings are more easily recognizable
I think that Gold generation is only to offset the high Gold Price. Keshiks have a gold cost on par with Elephants and similar heavy Cavalry. But combat stats are only around Light Cavalry. That is why the loose so soundly vs Paladin.
They should just change it to give half gold while attacking buildings, with the exception of walls and gates to avoid exploits. Than it should be really fun.
Could it be more balanced if it was (X)gold for (Y)damage? That would incentivise attacking units they have bonuses against and offset the gold "lost" from any upgrades.
I wish they made a viking-like civilization that would have villagers very bad a gathering resources but that could be changed into army units able to gather resources from attacking buildings/units.
Spirit can you please do a video on how to optimize your PC to play DE? Mine is just a moderate one with just a bit above the recommended requirements, yet i still lose a bit of frames during fights.
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
but can you generate gold in a diplomacy game if you set your persian ally to neutral and let them feed you his elite elephants? maybe with monks to heal too.
in this case they could just trade and generate a lot more of gold
Diego Amoedo indeed. though trade requires long routes and you may or may not have enough map control for that.
@@ahbraveconscript997
>an upgraded heroes V peasant talking about warfare
c'mon
*hardvare wants to know your location*
also, the other unit lines of the tatars are way more appealing, since the Keshiks are so expensive you could get instead get husars with the +1P armor bonus.
You'll probably go for Cav Archers too, and I would prefer more of their very strong cav archers instead of some melee cav with mediocre stats
P.S.: Tatars were totally imba in beta, dont know if they still are though.
Anyone else reminded of Age of Mythology Norse units generating Favor in combat from watching this video?
And charging with an army of worker heroes in the Ragnarok. Hell yeah!
Yao! Phederefá! Thelbuen!
This mechanic of generating gold while fighting is also in AoM. It's a tier 3 chinese myth unit.
@@dragovern Whaaat how do you know the old norse language :O
@@totalmadnesman those are AoM Norse unit sounds.
I'm not sure which makes me happier, DE's release or the plethora of Spirit videos it has generated. Either way 'tis a win-win for us!
The Orcs in Warcraft 3 had an ability like this, the Grunt, Raider and Peon units gained gold from attacking buildings.
From pillage upgrade, amirite?
@@forvafor That's the one.
Confirm! They're basically Reverse Keshiks since Keshiks don't generate from buildings!
@@forvafor that was worth it though, especially if you massed wolf raiders. big chunks of gold
@@corbeau-_- also one of building destroyer (looked at their siege-type attack)
"Hey guys, Spirit of the La Hire"
I can't unheeear
Law here wishes to test sumsing!
Keshiks.. more like CASHiks, amirite?
boooooooooooo
what a t90 joke.
Laaaaame!
You got my upvote 😁👍
More like DISCOUNTiks
amirite... more like Emirate, rite?
They could add the gold bonus when attacking buildings also, without walls, palisades and stuff like that, to see how it works out
this
there was this one scenario in the campaigns where you would destroy markets and such and receive gold. that would be dope
@@sandromension4529 Yeah, the Vikings one. Maybe they are holding that mechanic for Age IV, but with this unit something with markets, docs and TCs could also work quite well. Or who knows, even mines and camps...
the main problem as SOTL mentioned is that then you will have a bunch of keshiks farm gold infinitly by stabbing into a wall.
though, i could see them making this change, just not allowing them to get gold from any walls and farms.
@@xxUrek That is exactly my point. Let the gold gather come just from a few select buildings instead of every single building in the game
I think the gold should come from destroying a building and be based on its price. Wall would give next to nothing and takes for ever. Something like a castle or wonder in niche cases would bring the cash. I feel like the gold from units should work the same way. Maybe 5%.
I'm just so happy that you are now regularly uploading content
Great video, as usual!!
I hope we get see a one about the Hindustanis new unique building??
Thanks for all your work! :)
Hey Spirit, love your content.
It might be interesting to set up a test, where you have 10 Keshiks fight 10 of an enemy unit and have enemy units respawn when killed. Sort of an analysis of how much money a keshik might earn over their lifespan if they continually fight until they are dead. Then you could repeat with different enemy unit types to see how much Keshiks pay for themselves when used as a response to various units.
It should gain gold converted as how much resource the buildings they attack costed; a house that costed 30 wood then generates, for instance, 10 gold, and you get 10 gold / 900 HP (house HP), for example, then every 90 HP damage Keshiks do to such house, they gain back 1 gold. So it would make sense to raid buildings, but useless against walls and cheap ones.
This is one of the things that really annoyed me about AoE2 and was hoping that will be fixed in DE, there is a whole host of units whos animations are not synced with their attack speed. Most annoying when I see my guy hit his guy on 1 hp with at sword so i micro him away only to see that he didnt kill him...
The new Cobra looks gorgeus.
It's like a restoration company got hold of an old cobra from the original game
They remind me of the Norse civilizations in Age of Mythology, who gain favor in battle.
Damn the favor generation is pretty unique to each pantheon in AoM
Or the Chinese myth unit in the Tale of The Dragon, the Pixiu, which also generates gold as it fights.
I main Norse in AoM btw
Prostagma
I was just playing tatars and was wondering😂 thank u for perfect timing! Keep up the good work!
This bonus seems like it was designed to give SOTL something to talk about, more so than to drastically revolutionise AOE gameplay. A perfectly valid purpose I must say.
Infinite gold in FFA diplomacy : attack a villager of one of your ally, have him heal him with a couple monks
You would need 3 monks per keshik in that case, if the Keshiks are unupgraded and your "Ally" has loom. Reducing the damage the Keshiks to 1, like attacking Teutonic knights, lets you have 1 monk for 4 Keshiks. 7 if you involve byzantines.
That lame tactic is why I think this unit is stupid. Raiding generating gold has a historical basis as well, but we didn't have kingdoms forming secret pacts to raid each other just to generate magical gold (cos, you know they actually lost their own gold that way). And it's a lame tactic that's bad in a gaming sense too (military units turned into mail-wearing farmers?!), and I don't think any pro players will use it precisely because of it being lame and cheesy (also trade is better, and also doesn't require an alliance). I'd rather have the devs alter the unit to actually raid i.e. generate a little gold for you AND take it away from the enemy you're attacking. Then we wouldn't have people coming up with these lame infinite gold ideas, and it makes the unit a whole lot more useful as well. Since the amount of gold generated and stolen is (as the video shows) small, I don't think it'd be particularly unbalanced.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I agree in its current state it's dumb, but if it's changed to be less worth than trade then it would be ok I guess .. issue is they would be even more useless if they generated less gold x) then I guess your idea of stealing resources from opponent is nice. It's something I've had in mind for quite a while now : I wish defeating an enemy would grant me his buildings/units in FFA (would still have to define what defeating mean).
@Hoàng Nguyên I believe Tudsamfa is right saying Teutonic knights would be better : what matters is not how much health you have but the rate at which it goes down/up (so armor vs heal rate of monk). Not sure about elephants but I think they have less armor than teutonic knights against melee attack, so on average it would take more monks to maintain them alive. That said, I believe you'll always need at least 1 monk per unit being attacked because I don't think the monk will have time to switch healed unit if the one he's healing is still taking damage .. so in the end an elephant might do.
That's creative, but a trade cart is also comparable to a dark age gold miner. It looks like a constantly attacking Keshik will have a slightly better gold rate over one trade cart on a bad trade route, but considering your plan requires atleast three units (Keshik, target, and monk), it's just better to make three trade carts.
"What about raiding? Technically, your units can do that for a long ti--"
_Li Shimin was defeated_
01:00 I just want to point out how on point the Teutonic knight looks in DE
too bad he's not mounted, lmao
I find it pretty awful. Looks like he's hiding a dwarf under his cape, walks like he just pooped his pants, and also the attacking animation is ridiculous with that whole -unsheathing, attacking and sheathing the wepon again- cycle.
This is why I watch your content.
I need someone else to answer the curious thoughts that come into my head when I play the game.
How about bringing monks into battles to heal them?
That extra gold you get from healed Keshiks lasting longer in battle, gets balanced by the extra gold you need to spend to make a bunch of monks.
I don't know how much more convenient it would be, as opposed to having no monks. Would be interesting if SOTL did an analysis of that !
You're just using even more gold to support a unit that doesn't effectively cover its gold cost in the first place. Not to mention the monk upgrades.
That lame tactic is why I think this unit is stupid. Raiding generating gold has a historical basis as well, but we didn't have kingdoms forming secret pacts to raid each other just to generate magical gold (cos, you know they actually lost their own gold that way). And it's a lame tactic that's bad in a gaming sense too (military units turned into mail-wearing farmers?!), and I don't think any pro players will use it precisely because of it being lame and cheesy (also trade is better, and also doesn't require an alliance). I'd rather have the devs alter the unit to actually raid i.e. generate a little gold for you AND take it away from the enemy you're attacking. Then we wouldn't have people coming up with these lame infinite gold ideas, and it makes the unit a whole lot more useful as well. Since the amount of gold generated and stolen is (as the video shows) small, I don't think it'd be particularly unbalanced.
Plan: Another Tatar ally and I nominally switch to hostile, then send our Keshiks to fight each other, with enough monks to keep them healthy. Infinite gold?
You'll probably start with 2 keshiks and 2-3monks each for a 2 relic worth of income boost, then scale up from there.
The most efficient setup is 1 Monk, 1 Teutonic knight and 4 Keshiks in a group. 7 Keshiks if your "opponent" has a byzantine ally.
It generates a modest amount of gold, but even medium sized trade routes use your population limit more wisely.
If you have absolutly no map control, it is still the second worst infinite generator after Malays infinite fish.
Trade is a better option
That lame tactic is why I think this unit is stupid. Raiding generating gold has a historical basis as well, but we didn't have kingdoms forming secret pacts to raid each other just to generate magical gold (cos, you know they actually lost their own gold that way). And it's a lame tactic that's bad in a gaming sense too (military units turned into mail-wearing farmers?!), and I don't think any pro players will use it precisely because of it being lame and cheesy (also trade is better, and also doesn't require an alliance). I'd rather have the devs alter the unit to actually raid i.e. generate a little gold for you AND take it away from the enemy you're attacking. Then we wouldn't have people coming up with these lame infinite gold ideas, and it makes the unit a whole lot more useful as well. Since the amount of gold generated and stolen is (as the video shows) small, I don't think it'd be particularly unbalanced.
@Hoàng Nguyên Nothing is wrong with them, but they are the worst civ-specific way to generate infinte gold.
With everything else being equal, the spanish can reliably generate the most gold through trade, followed by indians, aztecs are slightly better than average with their relics, everyone else trading is here, depending on the market for stone portuguese come next, I would assume tartars should trade instead of using this setup i described, and malay should definetly just trade instead of selling their infinite food.
That doesn't make it a bad bonus, but it is definetly bad if your goal is gold generation.
I believe the offset should be made by gains from destroying certain buildings such as a castle or church or even town center. Gaining a ton more gold through destruction of structures would make keshiks worth more as a unit.
Tiny brain: using your monks to convert enemy units and find relics.
Galaxy brain: using your monks to profit in a Keshik war.
Last time I was this early, Keshiks were still a thing.
Made my night
@@ofsabir Crafted my night
They are now
Hm, i think the Keshiks could use some tuning to make them truly both an interesting and useful unit.
I have 0.0h in Definitive Edition in my copy on Steam, because I was patiently waiting for this video.
DE looks soo good
Both features and visuals
Im really glad we get a discount for owning the 2013 version
@@thedude2131 There is an option to buy both Age of Empires 2 (2013) and Age of Empires 2 Defiinitive Edition as a bundle on its store page, which turns out cheaper than buying DE by itself if you already own the 2013 version on Steam
They should make this tech !
Cannibalism : units generate food when fighting enemy units
Duke of Lorraine and make a new civ for it - barbarians lol
I heard some Cumans practiced cannibalism (rather than Mongols or Tatars) so they need that maybe?
@@jwpark3693 during a siege in China, the Mongols used cannibalism on their own troops, randomly choosing who would get eaten. I assume cannibalism happened every now and there when food supplies were critically low.
I like it, it's like the soldiers loot the corpses of the enemy they kill, it won't be enough to fill the coffers of the empire, but it is at least something, the looted gold makes up for the gold that exceeds usual heavy cav gold cost.
So Keshiks are pretty much a slightly weaker, potentially slightly more gold efficient paladin that's produced from the castle.
They are not gold efficient at all. They basically earn the 5 gold back to be equal with paladin but lose every time because much worse stats.
Much weaker than palas
@@Namonness Things were different 4 years ago mate
The new patch makes these guys so much better. Basically a cavalier that can pay for itself.
These guys remind me of...I think it was the Aztecs in Rise of Nations? They couldn't farm or make camps for any basic resources, but got a constant trickle bonus for every kill and every unit alive. Needless to say they tended to quit after a single battle went south.
So many SoTL videos since DE came out. What a gift
Time for a new outro, with DE Longbowmen getting flattened by DE Onagers, in DE graphics :)
Step 1. Convince an enemy to throw vast numbers of villagers into a vulnerable position with no defenses but a 25% hill bonus in a post-imperial setting where the villagers have all the upgrades they can get.
Step 2. Build a few Keshiks.
Step 3. For every villager they lose, tribute them some gold, but not all of it.
Step 4. They use the market to convert that gold into wood extremely efficiently, then use the wood to build farms. With the right civs that could be enough to make a net profit in food.
Step 5. They use the farms to build more villagers.
Perhaps you want to take a deeper look of the new unit the Steppe Lancer ?
Was waiting for this video since I heard their benefit.
Buildings that can fight back, should generate gold.
Unique towers, Malay upgraded docks, Castles, Kreposts, Keep line, Bombard towers and of course, where all the gold is stored - the Towncenter.
Houses, walls, military production etc makes sense.
Monks should be an important part for this civ. Probably good for raiding and choosing good engagements - e.g. catching a group of skirmishers or archers.
I knew you would make this video lol and i was waiting for it
The unit concept is probably taken from Age of Mythology, which has a couple of myth units that generate gold in combat (and vikings generate favor in combat, which other civs have to build buildings or assign villagers to a temple for).
after their resource change in december SotL really needs to either revisit this video, or come out with that juicy Tatars overview
Can you go over the "Steppe Husbandry" unique tech for the Cumans? The technology says it effects light cavalry and cavalry archers, but does that include Hussars, Kipchaks, and Steppe Lancers which in their description says they are light cavalry?
Loving all these new videos
Fix: They get a small percentage of the resources the unit costs they kill. i.e. Kill villagers 10 Food. Kill Paladin ~15 Food, 15 Gold
That would make it a lethal long term anti-trash unit. Your dead trash is funding your opponent's later trash. You're going to get ground down and spat out.
I don't know how the engine words in DE,or if it's the same Genie Engine as the former games,but as a modder,I can guarantee your idea is unfeasable without changing pretty much every unit.I have an idea of how Keshiks work and the comparison with the gold miner is accurate,since you can mod units to collect resources like that.
I would fix them by raising the amount of god they collect,or give them healing ability,or even give some Lituanian-ish relic bonus like how they have more attack on cavalry depending on the amount of relics,or I would just give better monks for Tatars to heal their units faster,or even having different rates for different classes of units(To stimulate their raiding capabilities,making higher profit by attacking vils,monks and trade carts).
@@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person I like that last option, get gold while attacking villagers, trading units, and resource buildings (Including TC and also docks and market)
@@napoleoncomplex2712 Actually, it's the exact mechanic of Cash Bounty from GLA in Command and Conquer Generals. But every faction in that game get Feitoria-like buildings/units to generate infinite resource in the late game so it balanced out as everyone can spam units at each other forever anyway. GLA just need it to spam more to balanced out their sub-par units compared to China and USA.
I actually would like that for everyone. But only with wood, stone and gold. Killing a unit or destroying a building gives you a 5-7-10% (depending of techs) of their cost. Maybe meso civs could get cannibalism, getting the food cost of all units; and maybe some other civs could get it only from cavalry ( civs that were historically more prone to eat horses, camels and/or elephants)
Another way of looking at gold generated is to see how much gold a keshik would generate before it dies (against hussars, pikes, skirms, cavaliers, champions etc). Group size can be an issue here but something standard can be assumed. Food for thought.
I can see a meme strat where instead of (or along with) tradeing, two players build a half-army of Keshik's and "fight" eachother with monks to ensure neither loses any units. a small group of them would be equivalent to a entire, continuous gold-mining group
An indepth analizies of Cuman Merceneries tech, plz, I wanna see my mongol machine-gun cav or the turk medieval tank XD
They still need to be on combat for almost 2 minutes... so not that great, but the buff to health(and nerf to attack) will help
3:15 but what if you use a monk to heal u r units ?
The bonus is effectively negligible, but if you can keep them alive from battle to battle, they recoup a small percentage of their own cost, which is pretty neat, even if impractical.
How much resources do monks generate? e.g. healing of high cost units, converting enemy units or buildings? Are monks the strongest economic unit?
(while having the most DPS as a converted unit is 'killed')
4:28 Spirit of the la Hire talking like a research paper
Idea for Diplogames: Get a neutral "teamplayer", attack his elephant/paladin/high HP unit while he is healing it for unlimited gold - you need to pay some tribute to the guy of course
Reminds me of the pixiu from Age of Mythology, generating gold while in combat
Or the Norse way of generating favour
Prostagma
I think a good test for this would be to fight a series of 1v1 battles against the same unit type until the Keshik dies to see how the matchups compare for gold generation over the life of the keshik.
11 videos in 2 weeks = it’s this heaven?
Thinking about the fact that a elit berserkt can stand constant fire from a elite skirmisher....
Even though I don't play AoE 2 for the moment, I like your channel, and your content is very interesting. It makes me want to play to AoE2 again. So thank you for your work, I think we all appreciate it very much !
I have a question though. Why did you name your channel Spirit of the Law ? Is it an hommage to Montesquieu's book or is there another story behind this name ?
Next: how much armor does lithuanians ignore? vsunits and buildings.
It seems like there's a micro-intense strat to be had where you cycle teams of Keshiks back to your monks when they get hurt, and cycle another team forward. I doubt it would make all the gold investment back, they're both gold intensive units, but I think you could make a lot of gold with it, and it seems worth it.
So essentially it's a unit whose cost scales depending on the player's skill level.
A handful of these clearing up enemy stragglers and stuff like skirms could be very good value over time, especially if they are able to perform decently even without the Elite upgrade.
And with a decent enough lead they turn into something of a 'win more' type of unit, as the enemy's already unfavorable fights end up feeding you more gold on top of everything else.
Can't wait to see them in action to find out if the numbers actually hold up to the theory.
Would love if it worked against some buildings. Castles, towers, tech buildings. Production buildings. Thees are the kind of buildings players normally want to protect anyway.
Make a crossover with CarbotAnimations. Both your videos gives people the same genuine smile.
I think the way to test this might be to try and see how much gold they generate over their lifetime, depending on what they're fighting, i.e. how much gold do they get when they continually fight Hussars until death, etc. In theory, the way to use these guys is to throw them at weaker units where they will take little damage.
Seem like an odd mechanic to get gold per attack vs for every kill. Got me thinking, though, you should get resources when destroying an enemy market. Disrupting their economy could evolve into raids on their market for gold.
reminds me a little of the vikings in age of mythology. they benefitted from fighting by generating faith, which also was a resource. but as things are now, they arent worth it. you would have to have a trash war while still having some left with a few monks to heal them up again. the keshik should have quite a bit more health and defense in exchange for some attack and speed. that way, they would be a tanky unit that fights for longer, is better to micromanage and generate more gold without adjusting the gold rate.
also it would give the keshik a unique role. as things are now, he is just a worse paladin in every way.
one exception:
If, in a diplo game, two players agreed to work together such that one sent out a Keshik and the other sent out a unit w/ monks, while the person with a Keshik enemied the other and was not enemied in return, the Keshik could attack the unit indefinitely, provided the monks healed it continuously. the number of monks would be (12-y)/2.5
New idea: They actually work as raiders and instead of this fighting shenanigans, they can carry a portion of resources from killing trade carts/vills with resources
I remember spies in Red Alert, if they got into an enemies' refinery, they would steal money. Good times.
Keshyyk generating infinite gold? That sounds like we need some Jedi on the case...
0:30 Yes we do love him and his elephant facts. ^ ~ ^
I am happy that the commend I made about when people introduce civilisations SpiritoftheLaw is going to make a video about how much keshiks generate gold I am %100 accurate
Perhaps the most viable way to use their gold generating capability is to protect those Keshiks with monks to heal them and keep them alive for longer time, thus making them more profitable per unit. If you don’t have to create mor of them to fill up the loses the results would improve.
Keshiks are alchemists that change the part of the enemy they hit into small chunks of gold. Doesn’t work on buildings or other stuff because their philosopher’s stone spear feeds on life force :p
THIS VIDEO WAS GOLDEN!!!
I see them as a way to generate gold in a pinch later in the game depending on the Situation. You burn some gold now to get the units and you make back some of the gold later when you may need it.
Spirit uploading a video every day miracle or he used to take a week
Question that I found answered no where: does the definitive edition allow rotating buildings?
You can rotate Gates now but not regular buildings.
Exactly. That wouldn't be possible since it still uses pre-rendered (2D) graphics
FriedOrange it would be possible it’s just different pre-rendered sprites just like how the units work. The only reason I think they didn’t do it is so buildings are more easily recognizable
I'd like to have all my houses facing the same direction.
Pressing the "build a house" button multiple times seems to rotate houses (seen on TheViper video), don't know for other buildings
I feared that it would be too OP, but now it seems to be a bit underpowered.
My gosh, look at those beautiful animation and graphic of DE.
I don't know about balance, but I would also give them gold for attacking Towncenters, farms, mills, houses markets, and monasteries.
This is like Orcs in Warcraft 3, but getting them from the units, and not the buildings.
Keshiks are now 50 food 40 gold now...
I think that Gold generation is only to offset the high Gold Price.
Keshiks have a gold cost on par with Elephants and similar heavy Cavalry.
But combat stats are only around Light Cavalry. That is why the loose so soundly vs Paladin.
They should just change it to give half gold while attacking buildings, with the exception of walls and gates to avoid exploits. Than it should be really fun.
I wish you can have an even battle between Keshiks vs other units and see how much Keshiks can offset their extra costs.
Could it be more balanced if it was (X)gold for (Y)damage? That would incentivise attacking units they have bonuses against and offset the gold "lost" from any upgrades.
The idea of earning resources by fighting kinda reminds me of AOE 3 where you can earn shipments by killing enemy.
SOTL (2019): I like like this new idea.
Grunt (with pillage upgrade - 2001):???
This unit is really beautiful.
I wish they made a viking-like civilization that would have villagers very bad a gathering resources but that could be changed into army units able to gather resources from attacking buildings/units.
I started palying this game ago, and I jsut played my first tatar game tonight.
They're a blast to play. I'd love for SotL to amke their overview.
Can you do persians gold free archer line or the koreans 15% wood discount next please?
Keshik attacks Teutonic Knights who is being repeatedly healed for gold? :Thonk:
I was wondering when this video would be uploaded.
Spirit can you please do a video on how to optimize your PC to play DE?
Mine is just a moderate one with just a bit above the recommended requirements, yet i still lose a bit of frames during fights.
Berserks or other famous raiders should be the units with this ability !!
I had the idea of Keshiks being as tanky as a Paladin but having weaker attack. That way, the gold received may actually be noticable