The Savar (new unit for Persians!)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Let's look at the new Persian replacement for the paladin coming on October 31st with the new Mountain Royals DLC, and how the Savar compares in both melee and against ranged units.
0:15 Stats and hidden bonuses
2:00 vs Paladin
2:58 vs Halberdiers/Pikemen
3:55 vs Camels
4:47 vs Skirmishers
5:30 vs Arbalesters
7:05 vs Town Centers
7:45 vs Castles and Hand Cannons
8:25 Final thoughts
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
Anyone else wish the Teutonic Paladin would be replaced by the Crusader Knight scenario editor unit, even as a purely cosmetic change since they already have their extra armour bonus?
i wish!
And the Frankish Paladin for the Franks !
honestly wish they'd give regional Paladin replacements for every civilisation, the Paladin aesthetic fits almost none of the civs in the game and should honestly be unique to the Franks
Currently the Crusader Knight has the unique ability to not be able to be converted by monks
Habibi knight
It must be really gratifying as an AoE dev to see someone really dig into things like this. Looking at how precise the math is I'm sure this was a very deliberate and thought out design choice and not a spaghetti on the wall scenario.
I love the design for this unit. Makes the Persians look more geographically correct. Also, hoping they add the Sogdian Cataphracts as a regular unit in the near future. They had a really unique look to them.
Soggy Deez N
I totally agree! Also
- Teutons and Franks should have access to the Knight Crusader in the monasteries, a unit slower and more expensive than a knight, but impossible to convert with a +4 max melee armor bonus if it's with other knights (like Georgian) or with relics (like Lithuanian), which produces gold by hitting opposing units (like keshik) and which takes monastery bonuses (fervor, sanctity).
For Teutons : Knight crusader increases the speed of Teutonic Knights !
- Coumans / Huns / Hungarians should have a review of their paladin
- Byzantins : should have access to Legionnary
What do you think?
Having a Sogdian civ on its own would be amazing
@@EresirThe1st 100% agreed. Could be a tie-in and testing ground for integrating antiquity civs into Age II.
@@paladinrohanI love the ideas of these civs having Crusader Knights! Could possibly be a monastery unit as well. The notion of different European civs having access to different types of crusader knights as well would hit the spot, such as the Teutonic Knights, Templars, Hospitallers, and the Knights of Santiago.
Also, kind of far fetched but a split of the Teutons into the Germans and Austrians is something I wouldn't mind seeing. The Germans could have landsknechts and the Austrians could have doppelsoldners/zweihander.
As for the Cumans, Huns, and Magyars I do agree with them having unique paladins with their own skins. It would make them more distinctive and add to their flavors.
For the legionary, I like the idea of keeping them for the Romans and giving the Byzantines the Varangian Guard. For me, that makes the most sense and contributes well to their separate identities. These are my humble suggestions though. Hope you love some of them! :D
There should be reskins of some paladins, even if it is minimal, such as adding a new symbol under the horse's breastplate since if they have the fleur-de-lys, it takes away the magic like the Huns, Cumans, Spaniards or the Persians, because it seemed that they have French cavalry in non-corresponding regions.
The fleur de lys isn't limited to the french, it was a heraldic device used by plenty of different families. It is true it doesn't aesthetically at all fit the eastern factions, but neither does the paladin aesthetic as a whole really as it looks extremely western/central european.
More broadly, regional units models (like the trade cart) would be appreciated.
Major changes with the style of armours and so on, and more minor ones within the same region on heraldics
wanna know something funny? there is a turn based version of Age of Empires 2 released for the Nintendo DS more than a decade ago that has unique models for units for every culture (Ex: Japanese villagers have their outfits and wield wooden hammers, while european villagers use pitchforks, Arabs as well etc) all units had specific models for each culture, so a Japanese Champion would look nothing like a Frank Champion.
There needs to be regional skins for generic units just like the regional architecture. People complain about readability but we already have it for American monks and it works fine.
@@EresirThe1st The problem is that the more different skins you add, the more load you're putting on your players' memory. It's already a game with a lot to learn and remember (while reacting quickly to things happening all over the place); it doesn't need unnecessary complexity added by cosmetics
That said, I love the idea of more regional skins. But I do think they'd need to add an option to disable them
The next step should have Teutons or Franks having the appearance of the campaign's Crusader Knights. Just a visual change would be enough, but wouldn't surprise me if they make it a different unit
Isnt there a mod for this?
Yes, Teutons should have Crusader knights as UU paladins and Frank with the Frankish paladin
The paladins literally bear the fleur-de-lis symbols, Franks paladins are not meant to be changed
They have to keep the playerbase growth in mind as well; if the same unit has 7 or 8 different skins it can be confusing for new players. At least I see it that way. But since they've been testing it with castles, perhaps they're thinking of trying it.
Crusaders should be an european regional unit if you ask me
Love the idea of alternative fourth age upgrades, honestly kind of the best way to do unique units
what a flawed analysis! Totally overlooked the most salient detail-- looks cool. Got to do better next time Spirit!
Lmao
Fun fact: The Savar were so badass that the Romans adopted aspects of their arms and techniques.
The best thing about new content for AOE is that is means more SOTL vids. Great work!
Persians is gonna be a top-tier pocket civ in team games with these new and returning bonuses, calling it now.
Savar will be OP, calling it now it will be slightly nerfed in a couple patches. Probably higher upgrade cost or something of that sort.
The Savar is interesting to me because it's like Age of Empires 2 is taking notes from other modern types of RTS. In age of empires time it made sense to have factions that were mostly the same save for stat diffrences to save on disc space but as time goes on RTS general expect factions that are more diffrent from each other like Zerg Vs terrian and slowly with more unique units and regional units, AOE2 seems to be moving that way
Savar+crossbow could be a really good combo.
Also we have to consider how badass they look
I'm a little disappointed the Paladin and Savar weren't compared to each other in regards to their performance against the genoese xbow. However crunching the numbers the genoese xbow does 17 atk (elite and FU) vs cavalry, same as the hand cannoneer, so I guess it was covered indirectly. Also it'd have been interesting if anything changed with Gurjara camels against Savar given the extra bonus dmg.
I'm a Persian main and I love the new update.
01:46 No one expects the samurai bonus damage.
Armor is best against lower damaging attacks of course and i really like the look of the Savar and the idea of civs with own versions of units
(for example taking 4 damage instead of 5 per hit is a lot better than taking 14 instead of 15 damage)
I was waiting for this video. Glad you realized how much better Savar is. It's a pretty crazy unit for Persians.
one of the best looking unit atm.
you forgot to mention the BIGGEST BONUS BY FAR!!! they look really cool
I like the way they handled this balance with this subtle, but impactful difference with the Savar tbh. I hope that if they make more regional variants/uniques in the future, that they take it along this path
I think vs Genoese Crossbowman is a special scenario that you didn't consider, it counters cavalry while being countered by Savar, I am really interesting in how much would Savar do better here if at all.
FE Savars die in 17 arrows and they need 3 hits to kill FEGC. However since GC has 1 less range than typical archers the results wouldn't be that overwhelming.
@spiritofthelaw, i have a great suggestion for a video for you. I always wondered at what point you actually get more Ressources as a persian player. Because on the one hand you keep pulling ahead on villagers on the other hand it gets more and more expensive to keep your TC working when you reach the next age.
So when is the point were i actually have more Ressources than my opponent to spent on military?
something i only realised till recently is that you are the Vsauce of age of empires
Tarkan suddenly have a new competitor in vs archer and defensive building department.
Unit looks awesome
As cool as it would be to change the aesthetics of every unit to be regional, i totally get why it probably wont happen. As far as clarity of gameplay is concerned - having units with identical stats with different appearances is downright confusing to new players and experienced players alike - especially in the heat of battle! Misinterpreting the unit you're fighting can lead to committing the wrong troops which can lose you a battle, so I doubt regional paladin aesthetic changes will happen sadly :(
8 pierce armor is just insane for a paladin like unit. I already thought the Sicilian cav was pretty good
Really like this design philosophy; it actually feels very AoE 4 to me.
I have no intention to buy/play this game. I have almost no history with it. But I like your videos so I keep watching the content.
Let's also not forget that they are gorgeous.
Everybody knows that the coolest looking units are the strongest.
the art of this unit makes it look like a combination of both a sassanid cataphract and a safavid cavalryman from 1000 years after the fall.
Spirit, I never saw you analysing the effect of formation shapes in battle results. Like atacking from flanks, head to head block, U shape aproach or tatical retreats (now this is more of a micro managenent than the others) into melee fights.
Maybe this would be very nice to see.
If you like my idea, please up vote this comment so Spirit might do such a video. TY sir.
i think he did a video like this already, at least in regards to avoiding mangonel blast damage
I think he got much more into micro since I put this coment. I'm very pleased.
Burmese need a buff. +5 against archers is practically free (if you're gonna upgrade your knights anyway) for Persians now. It is a terribly niche upgrade, and this made me realize that with the recent reworks and new additions, the game almost seems like its getting a power creep. That said, the balance of all the civs has mostly stayed intact, and what has been broken was quickly hotfixed. The devs really work hard on this game, and the new additions have been fun to play with. They add variety to how you play the game beyond the rock paper scissors of the generic units and resource functions. Anyways, the Burnese could really use one of these touch-ups. I love infantry, and i love elephants. The arumbai is a really cool unit, but just feels so lackluster and underpowered.
But the Burmese UT affects more units than just knight line so I think it's fine
@@windwindy5356 its expensive imp tech. game is usually already resolved when u got timeto think about it... Would be nice if they made it cheaper or just changed it.
@@krystofcisar469 that was my thinking. It's not a terrible upgrade, and on hussars it crushes, but it comes too late to be useful most of the time. Giving Burmese cav a lower flat bonus against archers and a new tech wouldn't be bad, but as far as civ bonuses are concerned, it's not the most creative or anything unique to the Burmese. As far as their archer problems are concerned, I don't see why they don't get the second archer armor upgrade. The arumbai underperform as is, so I don't think it would make them too powerful.
Absolutely love your videos
Hi SotL, do you use the "Enhanced Graphics Pack" available on Steam? The description states that it targets 4K/UHD resolution, which I use. I made a simple test and it seems great, maybe even for 1440p and 1080p, but not sure abou performance drop, what do you think? Are you gonna make a video?
8:18 Mamelukes no longer have the archer armor.
Imagine a Chu Ko Nu in its place. ;)
Teutons should have crusader knights as their second unique unit in their castle and i wonder how powerful savar against Genoese crossbowman
No, it should be in the stables. Castles don't have a second slow for unique units.
Edit: Now that I think about it, isn't the crusader knight more like a Boyar? 😅
@@Hardcore_Remixer not really, they have 4 more attack, are more resistant to arrows and are completely immune to monk conversion.
@@Hardcore_Remixer yeah maybe replacement for knight line and crusader knights very similar like boyar
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon since when are they completely immune to conversion? i converted teutonic knights all the time in the campaign.
@@Daxter250 crusader knights not Teutonic knights
Persian will be OP. No more Douch.
I forse the Savar getting a slight nerf. Propably to their upgrade cost or attack speed.
But I like the new unit :D
Savars makes sense, Persians have battle elephants for raw damage, trash bows to deal with pikes and Savars cover their necesity for an strong anti archer unit.
Still waiting for them to mod the game to where the attack animation matches the damage output
Bruh, "decentivize using these purple-line units against the Japanese" ... Samurai are so goddamn rare they might as well be mythical creatures. If anything, they should see more play along with every other unique melee foot unit.
Please do a video what we gain for taking a sheep, bushes, dear, boar. We know what is faster but what do we won? For example losing a sheep do we loose 20 of food? Because during the time you take the food on the sheep with farming you would have earn 80 of food (and taking in consideration the wood cost)
It's good that the Savar is not just a Paladin re-skin. Killing arbalests in two hits is pretty cool, and Persians could use a bit of help in dealing with archers… but they just need a lot of help in general, and I'm not sure the earlier Parthian tactics (against pikes), the Savar against archers and camels + halbs (against cavalry) are really gonna cut it.
Persians' eco bonus actually pushes you into a booming track, because the faster-working TC competes with resources for any sort of rush you might want to try, and if and when you get there, any camel or monk civ is going to give you a lot of trouble anyway. I still don't see why one would pick Persians outside of, say, water maps, because even with all of the new changes, they still lack an identity beyond "it's cavalry time!".
Awesome new castles!
It's almost like every civ is supposed to have weaknesses... i mean, i don't know why anyone would pick any civ that has any weakness. For shame on them and the devs for not having an omni civilization. 🤷🏽♂️
@@the_SolLoser haha, yes, very amusing.
I know most civs have some sort of weakness. But they also have strengths, which is why people pick them in certain situations, like Huns in Arabia in olden times (even today, they're fairly respectable, I'd say). Or you have a jack-of-all-trades, excelling at nothing in particular but offering you lots of variety to meet whatever's thrown at you - your Byzantines or Chinese, for instance.
Persians are, and still remain, neither of those options. They're a strong eco civ, but in a weird way that actually hampers them in the early stages, so rushing's out. Their late game, while decent enough, isn't as strong as some other civs, featuring no real standout units, so what's the benefit in booming? And their tech tree, while fairly broad, is hamstrung in key places so that they're actually lacking in versatility.
There's a reason you only see them picked in naval maps (where the dock bonus is actually real good) or in niche strategies like the douche or trash wars. Everything they do, someone else does it better - and these changes don't fix that fundamental issue.
It's clear you're new and don't remember how persians were terrorizing the ladder in the past with the 5% in dark age.
no no, I know. The 5% bonus in Dark Age is the best bonus they got (back).
But that's not a new bonus. It's something they got back because of power creep, that's all.
8:26 Why is there a Mameluke there? Wasn’t their archer armour class removed about a year ago?
Are there other unique units like Imp Camels or Imp skirms that dont take bonus dmg from samurai?
Unless missed, how do they perform against genoise crossbow?
@Spirit of the Law, Hera has been saying in his videos that war elephants get the free Muhoots Speed bonus with Elite upgrade? Is that true or not? Or do they get the speed bonus right out of the gate with castle age version?
No, it's behind the elite upgrade. Researching unlocks speed bonus, it's like how Berserkgang got rolled in Elite Breserker.
It seems like the base speed of both the base War Elephant and the Elite Version has been changed from 0.6 to 0.8, so yes you get it right out of the gate in Castle Age. And Husbandry actually makes them a bit faster now, since their base speed is higher. It used to be 0.66 without Mahouts and 0.85 with Mahouts, now you get 0.88 with Husbandry which is base Battle Elephant speed. Still not amazing, but you might actually get somewhere and save 600 Resources.
The differences in pure paladin vs savar fights are so minuscule that they likely don't matter. It has likely less effect than a single fluke of the rng causing a few milliseconds of pathing delay, especially in larger fights. But still, it's great for the lore and for aesthetics.
As an Indian, I would like to say: 'Savar' means one who is riding
Was looking forward to this
8:23 Mameluke was shown with the other archer units, that was an oversight right?
I wish they just remove the kinght-line from the mongols entirely and just give them the last archer and cavalry armor upgrade instead. more fitting imo.
At 3:20 the generic Paladin just barely gets one more hit in than the Frank Paladin. I'm assuming it was a fluke, but is there potentially something hidden going on there?
8:23 mameluke no longer has archer armor class, isnt it?
Crazy civ now. I'm trying in my head to go through the Japanese Matchup and it's certainly not going to be an easy one.
8:16 I don't get what is the Mameluke doing there 11 as far as I know, it doen't count as an archer unit
Guys its time to tell the devs that we need reskins of all units by region.European can stay as it is now by default , then African civs , Asia and so on make it happen devs please...
great stuff!
So basically they get 33% better at killing and at resisting enemy archer units. That's nothing to shake a stick at. An interesting question would be, how many archers does it take to take down a group of 10 generic paladins versus 10 Savars? My hunch is that you would need at least 50% more archers and possibly a great deal more than that. Micro might negate that advantage, but if you can monopolize your opponent's attention with a couple groups of savars, I call that a win.
boy is this one lookin cool
Does de extra pierce armour of the Savar hold up against Genoese Crossbowmen?
I wish there were a lot more unique skins for units. Some of them are so... Weird....
Don’t you love Aztec/Mayan infantry wearing medieval European armor?
So Savar seems better than Paladin at things the Paladin is good at and a little worse at things the Paladin is not so good at.
I think also slingers (not castle UU) also receive bonus damage.
I wonder if you could also include 'break even comparison in your videos? From my understanding you only say "x amount of Savars cost as much as x amount of paladins", but what if you say "Savar upgrade cost + x Savars vs Paladin upgrade cost + y Paladins", but one can only produce less amounts of Paladins after paying more for the upgrade considering both players have the same resources available
Epic content
Hauberk IS a Joke now with savar😂😂😂
Would Saracens run Pikemen tho?
So I thought this would be mentioned in the video, but with the exchange of HP for armor, the Savar is worse than the Paladin vs units that ignore armor such as the Leitis and Composite bowman
I'm not sure how much this really matters for Composite Bowman, they take 21 shots to a Paladins 23 (24 for Franks). Composite Bowman have trash range and defenses and die in 3 hits to Savars and Paladins. If you can close the cap, there is likely little difference.
Against Leitis with 4 Relics, both take 10 hits and take 12 attacks to kill one, so there is virtually no difference. Against Leitis without any Relics, the Savar takes 11 hits to a Paladins 12, so again very little difference. And against Leitis you likely are better off going Halbs and/or Camels anyway as Persians.
Not saying this doesn't matter at all, but these are some very specific match ups with only marginal differences.
Why didn't he talk about the new Archer unique unit that can ignore armour? Could 15 still take on 40?
I miss your old music.
@8:25 mameluke?
Yeah that’s either a mistake or he’s sad it’s gone.
The mongols and huns should have a unique knight line and light cavalry line.
The whole muslim world too.
Huns should have an architecture change too.
But teutons and franks are easy for the devs to change next.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Thus Savar are like Huskarl but on a horse. How do 2 Svar fare against a watch tower or a guard tower?
Also how does a Savar fare against a cavalry archer?
Does the Savar have more basic speed than a paladin? im very curious about that, maybe a Savar can catch up to a cavalry archer?
I'm 1000% for more "reskinned" units so that they fit more with their civ visually, it's one of the few things I envy from AoE 3. (Please don't lynch me for saying that 3 might've done something better than 2, it's okay to like both!)
Please reskin the generic archer, militia and spear lines for the American civs next!
I'd appreciate if, every time you mentioned a tech being cheaper or free, you'd show how much that translate in actual things. For example, the upgrade cost difference gets you 2 Savar + 3 villagers or get Bloodlines + Husbandry + leftover gold
Keep up the good content!
i feel like the devs are using your videos as reference
They any good vs genovese crossbow’s
oh yes dudes AOE2 is more alive than ever
its a buff fast huskarl
Savar Definitely has tanks but less versatility. That makes stand out amkng units.
It says +5 gold for cavalry. Does it also apply to the scout line?
It applies to all Cavalry, so yes, Scout Line, Knight Line, Camel Line, Cav Archers and War Elephants.
@@Edelweiss1102 wow, that makes the bonus superb In Trash wars
Would really like the Aztecs and other Mesoamerican civs to get some unique flavors mixed in with them also beyond just Eagle Warriors. Aztecs especially need some help.
I just feel the Mongols, Vikings and the Mesoamerican civs could really use some overhauls. Mongols and Vikings more for Nomadic play styles and Raiding mechanics for gold like Persians get for their cavalry.
Yay!
They need to make a kingdom of Jerusalem civ like the movie kingdom of heaven with a unique unit like a mounted Teutonic knight.
no they dont
All these people in the comments wanting cosmetic changes for the sake of having a cosmetic change... THAT'S WHAT MODS ARE FOR!
I certainly wouldn't pay money for a meaningless cosmetic change. People don't seem to understand that the Savar is NOT A COSMETIC.
Call of Duty has ruined y'all.
All civs should have certain cultural units if they’re doing cultural units at this point.
Persian op now ?
Don't like hard counters.. İn this case Savar vs archer is one of the hardest in the game
Persian gotted aswarans. But arabians and other non-europeanian nations have europeanian knights in their cavalry tier yet (and persian has too lol)
Together with the op aoe heal persians Will be unstopable they Will be nerfed no doubt.
The gold and value Will be insane you cant keep up with it.
Composite bowmen:
I wish a human rider for War Elephant was added in this update.
Then we can't convert elephants to christianity or buddhism anymore.
eh, I wish they just gave old Savar unit design, which looked much cooler, maybe with a mace/sword if animation was the issue. This savar, unlike old one, looks very generic islamic heavy cavalry from any period of history to any region. While previous one was distinct for Persians.
Savars about to run all over everybody
I hope the vikings get a rework some day, neither their unique units nor their civ name makes any sense, at least rename them to Norse ffs, viking is an occupation not a culture.
Keshik: am I a joke to you?
Keshik are much much cheaper tho and they don't need to kill to generate gold and they can do that by attacking any unit including villager.