Desert Tech 5.56 MDR Optimization
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- The Desert Tech 5.56 MDR shows a lot of promise as being potentially the best bullpup on the market now that we're past the teething pains. The bullpup design sacrifices ergonomics and balance, generally speaking, for OAL. What if we can leverage those differences, particularly the balance, as a benefit rather than a detriment?
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RO: Unload and show clear.
Karl: Umm, if you hold your head like this and look in here, you can kinda see the chamber...
The Fridge have to keep a spare safety mag loaded with snap caps. Insert mag, Chamber snap cap, remove mag then show the snap cap being ejected as you cycle the action. Takes a second but if safety is a priority not a bad idea
@Josh Jones how does one chamber flag this rifle?
@@dfwai7589 very carefully
"What if we can leverage those differences, particularly the balance, as a benefit rather than a detriment?"
Bullpup balance was always a benefit, an even bigger benefit than the OAL in my opinion. Not something that shows up on a short competition stage, but from an infantry perspective, the rear-heaviness makes it very easy to carry on a march or hold on target for long periods. This also makes the nose-heaviness from attachments forced upon you by the mission like PEQ units, flashlights, or as you note, suppressors, much less of a burden (or even beneficial)
I was mulling agreeing with this but after the video I kind of have to stick with Karl. He has made it clear that the MDR's balance point is even further to the rear than other bullpups which would definitely be a disadvantage. The RFBs and RDBs have the balance point at the grip which is as nice as you describe, but the MDR (and I can personally say, the Tavor as well) balances even further rear so you're always pulling the nose back down as it tries to slip down off your shoulder. However, as is being noted, that further rear COG is advantageous if you already knew you had to hang a bunch of attachments off the front for whatever your purpose is. If not, then it just ends up being awkward.
I would disagree on the point of rear weight being better on marching. In my experiance rucking is only made better by less weight. While distribution of weight matters, it more applies to the ruck than the weapon that your holding.
@@Conan_Kilgore The thing that sticks out most in my mind was 8km into a march, the nose of my issued AR felt like it weighed a ton. 15km in, and sergeants would be going up and down the line jacking troops as they started carrying their rifles dangling muzzle down in one hand like a pistol. What I would have given to be able to cradle all that weight in my strong arm and up against my body back then.
The pack has to be balanced correctly, cinched down tight and put on correctly. But once it's there, it's on your back and you stop thinking about it (relatively). The weight of your rifle is in your hands and in your thoughts always.
@@Conan_Kilgore If you're infantry you don't get a choice on whether you're carrying all that stuff or not, that's his point. If your rifle is going to have a laser and an optic and grenade launcher and then maybe some other doodads, then having the rifle itself be as rear heavy as possible will make carrying all of that easier in the long run.
@@RussianBlue4S
I honestly like the rear-heaviness for exactly the reasons I've described, haha. I want that weight as far to the rear as possible, even if the shooting characteristics suffers a bit. If I'm feeling fresher when the shooting starts, it's a fair trade. Maybe the MDR is worse for that, I've never handled one of those.
Slippage has never been a problem with me, and I've owned a variety including both the TAR21 and the X95. I was concerned it might be a problem when I replaced the X95's ridiculous rubber buttpad with the flat buttplate, but I've found it stays firmly in my shoulder, maybe even better. Maybe that texturing helps? The rubber pad is pretty smooth.
The only similar issue I had was when I was really new to bullpups, I would overexert bringing up the buttstock and conk myself in the jaw as I shouldered it, but that went away as I became accustomed to the new weight distribution.
If I ever design a firearm I'm getting these guys to do the T&E. Always well thought out, prudent points with solutions offered. Excellent work.
Is it now ready to fight the Covenant?
Not till it's 3 round burst
Flannel daddy's "remember reach" moment
Not until it’s back in 7.62 either
A Baby Ate My Dingo 7.62 or higher.
Well... It doesn't have the integrated ammo counter so No.
I’m liking the double bipod. That is quite the force multiplier!
Or diminisher ... because we talk of recoil.
Finally a gun for the M320 in under barrel configuration
M320 suuuuuuucks
As a bullpup owner (currently MSAR STG556. Formerly I had a Bushmaster M17S ) and enthusiast, I understand your opinion of the design of bullpups in general. Your criticisms are well-founded. I appreciate the fact that, misgivings aside, you practically move Heaven and Earth to find something positive to say about this rifle!
Keep up the honest work. Sub'd!
If the gun is rear-heavy, could you strap a small sandbag to the front? You would then have your own cover available.
Titanium armor front plate.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD transparent titanium alloy
@@aaronorr5586 basically black beard
Dessert tech has really done a good job developing this rifle from the disastrous start to now possibly the best bullpup on the market
Holy Cow! Karl escaped from the 3 Gun Cabal!
I really respect how you guys keep coming back to the platform.
I am definitely getting the MDR when I can afford it. Your videos are extremely informative and the support Desert Tech has given you in listening to your feedback and making changes to the firearm based on your tests is helping me to know what I'm getting into.
Thank you for watching this edition of What Wouldn't Stoner Ever Do
It's really nice to see you finally find a bullpup that you can configure to a point that you would actually say you like and appreciate. A lot of this goes to Desert tech themselves. There's nothing like giving you two a gun to really work out the bugs of what looks like a decent platform.
All that said, I'm not a fan of bullpups, but this one might just change my mind. We'll see. Thanx for the content Karl
Always love seeing the MDR on the channel. It's definitely the only bullpup I would happily rely on.
I do really like how much desert tech listens the week after this video they realest there 2020 products which seem aimed at the specific criticism inrange and others have made
The 20” barrel is actually a great solution. It would still be within carbine length yet the added velocity and accuracy increase effectiveness.
You are looking much much slicker on the reload now. I would be interested to see you do a side by side mag change speed comparison with AR/MDR, maybe load one round into 3 magazines for each, starting with the weapon unloaded and see how quickly you can get through each set of 3 mags. Probably important to require hits on target at say 50 yards to see the impact of each design/your proficiency in getting back on target after each mag change...
I like this idea!
Seconded on this.
I third this motion.
That’s basically what I do when I decided to run only 20rd mags with the ranger pull on the end. Better length for resting on the rubber loop (very stable shooting platform) and 20 rounders are almost exactly 1 pound when fully loaded, for better balance on my AR.
vlog about extensive reload testing
20rd + 30rd variations + 60rd surefire + drum mags
ak + ar + bullpups
holding out for the 40 watt conversion
40 Mega watt man, MEGA Watt!! LOL. Love the Terminator reference.
You mean chambered for .25 ACP and with a rate of fire of 30 rpm?
To be honest, you missed the mark with adding a can. You should obviously have used the .308, wit a sword bayonet.
That was what I was looking for, an MDR with a 20 inch barrel. I really like that idea, though really I can't afford it at the moment anyway. But it was nice seeing a deep dive into this gun, particularly since DT actually listened and took the feedback you put out seriously right from the beginning. That was nice to see.
It's crazy how all these years later, they now have longer hand guards and built in bipod hand gaurd options. What a great company!!
Always the most thorough scientific testing from Inrange TV, can guarantee that!
Thanks for all of the reviews on this gun. I bought one in 556
You and Ian give the best indept no BS reviews, more please on the Desert Tech MDRX. Thanks!
iwi for the win! pick your caliber from 9mm, 223,300, 308 and even 12 gauge. tavor/x95/sar in any flavor for the win. thanks for playing. love the vids.
Great video Karl, very nice to see how far you can push the MDR without anything crazy
I don't think there's any FS2000 footage on the channel, I'd absolutely love a video of you re-evaluating the FS2000 and bullpups in general compared to this!
Sounds like the MDR is now roughly where the L85 should have been 3 to 4 decades ago!
L85 A3 is a good rifle. Don't mind it one bit.
Not at all you want the weight on your shoulder... It lets you return fire while doing things, ie SABC, dragging your friends ass, ect. When your firing normally your going to brace it with your other hand... Only civs would find this as a negative, the same goes for the magazine your going to be shooting from behind cover. If not someone somewhere fucked up. This is a rifle for a battlefield, not a sporter rifle.
@@TheExpatpom Two pounds heavier than a loaded L85.
It almost seems as if they intentionally made the weight rear-heavy to accommodate for front-mounted accessories that the audience would no doubt be attaching.
Thanks guys for going the extra mile to get the 'best' out of that MDR. Way to go!
Karl, I respect that you guys really use gear for extended periods before putting out reviews or rendering verdicts. Way too many 200rd reviews out there.
That's a beautiful rifle and you ran it proficiently. That was fun to watch.
I tied the MDR 308. It's really cool and what you mentioned about it is true. But I ended up going with keltec and there RFB-24. Had it for a couple months now. Never had any issues on the gun's fault. Extreme and I mean extremely accurate. Or as accurate as the shooter. Rings steel at a 1000 using M118LR
Knowing Karls nature towards bullpups, I'm really loving this content. And the match footage was slick.
Happy New year InRangeTV. Thank you for the content.
This channel is like a redemption quest for Bullpups.
Needs an M203 for perfect balance!
Can't you get like both WWSDs for that 6 kg carry weight, though?
The alpha group AK weighed approximately the same amount as the MDR now and I can remember watching Karl complain how unpleasant that was to carry around. Perhaps because the balance on this is better and the OAL is less it's easier to carry, due to your hands offering better leverage. Still, if you have 13 lbs of gun versus 5 lbs of gun thats 8lbs of other stuff you aren't carrying in the field or a lot less weighing you down in a match environment.
First FDE rifle I love more than the black variant! Very Nice!
on subject of balance its possible while they tested the gun it was meant to be used in a military "work" format wear a suppressor, IR laser, and weapon light would be attached. This would mean once all the weight of the attachments were present the gun would even out balance wise. The issue with using the gun prone would still be present but it doesn't mean that a bipod couldnt still go there either and resolve this issue.
Ergo wise I still think there is better options but I think the MDR is a step closer in compared to other bulpups.
I agree, 308 honestly makes no sense for this gun. This is nobody's ideal 308 rifle.
They really screwed up by not advertising the 223/556 version more.
only in specific conditions does it make sense. i used mine in a tiny hunting blind with while hog hunting. switching from one window to the other was a lot easier than my bolt action rifle
Edward Kim Yes threading a 24 inch bolt action from window to window gets old. Did you get anything?
It was partially a marketing decision, I guarantee. There’s a lot of semi-auto rifles (and pistols too) in .223/5.56 right now. There’s a fair number of .308 also, but a bull pup stands out much more in that space and really grabs attention.
And, yeah, it’s also relatively easy to scale a .308 down to a .223. .223 to .308, not so much.
..although .308 is really handy when your opposing force has .556 and is behind medium sized trees....
@@nc_classics_9610 I had that issue deer hunting this year. Bucks were chasing does up and down a trail that went from my 12 to my 9 o'clock. Finally had one stop out front, but I almost got busted when a banged the butt into the back wall.
10:30 in loin impulse... :)
ouch
I'm feeling the impulse :D
Freudian slip, perchance ...
I bet target presentations and transitions feel real sluggish coming off the WWSD carbine. I can't wait to buy a complete one from Brownells. One of those proto ARs they have as well just to compare and appreciate the weapon's full evolution.
I know it's apples to oranges but it'd be really interesting to see how this stacks up against the WWSD AR-15. While obviously they're very different rifles (conventional lightweight carbine vs bullpup assault rifle), I'd be really interested to see specifically how well the MDR holds up in close range CQB type drills that the AR-15 would obviously excel at, and if the MDRs longer barrel length would be significant or noticeable for long range accuracy (200+ yards). Obviously the exact ranges and distances would vary as I'm not sure what's realistic with weapons like these in any kind of practical trial but to me the main questions are "Is this rifle comparable with a typical weapon in CQB" and "Does the extra barrel length offer any real advantage in marksmanship at range". In essence, is this gun okay at what bullpups are supposedly bad at, and is it better at what they should be good at, then a high end conventional rifle.
“Inloine”
Karl turned British there in 10:30
May be an 18” barrel would feel better.make the grip 2” longer. Edit: Ill be damned he just said what i was typing.
Sappy-Seaman 18.5 maybe?
Amazing, the second you mentioned Bipod "oh but what about that grip-flush one" and then it popped on screen
I own one. I wish they would make a 20" barrel.
Wish has been granted my friend.
Check their blog post deserttech.com/blog/universal-mdr-and-the-19-inch-barrel/
What’s your personal review of the gun?
Agree with you , the MP Scorpion has a counterweight on the handle, as I used it longe Time ..
The Grip Pod has one, and only one, actual purpose. When in the sandbox, you can deploy Grip Pod, and set your rifle down so that you only get moon dust on the Grip Pod and the toe of the buttstock. This helps reduce the number of times you have to clean your rifle in order to keep the most annoying 'sand' on planet earth from gumming up everything. Again, this is the only actual purpose of the Grip Pod (coming from a US Marine who deployed with on in 07).
Hey Karl... Look into the *MID-EVIL* forearm grip / tripod system.
You just might be surprised by it.
I love the way your voice cracks when you get excited. XD
Fab defense has a badass grip pod i love it
BTW, they do have this available with 20in barrels and extended handguards!
Just pulled up Desert Tech's website. They now offer 20" barrels in 5.56, 6.5 Creedmoor and 7.62
Also 300 Blackout in 16"
Thumbs up if you prefer in-loin impulse to in-line impulse
Your MDR content is great. Keep it coming.
10:30 LOL "In loin impulse" sounds like a term I need to get more familiar with.
Desert Tech should consider putting integrated bipod in the same style you showed the other day on that. I also bet it would be also possible to shift weight to the closer to the center with a careful engineering.
Marek Kochanowicz so make it more like a famas lol
@@zedoktor979 Well, there is no shame in copying good aspects of a design. Especially since technology progressed somewhat forward and by using modern materials a lot more can be done (see WWSD).
I think you want the balance point to be in the midpoint of of both hands. The gun's weight has the smallest effect on the shooter there, and it is easier to use both hands in unison when they are both doing the same thing.
Beside mdr Singapore's br18 is also a good design hope that Ian can get hands on one on his trips. It has quick access to chamber with forward ejection.
In talking about bullpups you've tried, you left out the RDB. Have your views on it changed? Previously it seemed that you rather liked it.
I hope DT makes a dedicated 5.56 / .300 blk version. It would be lighter and shorter in the rear for better balance and easier carry. It would also cost less too.
They have 20 inch barrels that came out with for California but anyone can buy them.
Yes, .223 is a much weaker cardrige than a .308 - but there is a ton of .223 bullpups out there, many of them military proven.
What the MDR has is the stronger calibers and the suppressor settings. I would love to see more of that since I am interested in it as a hunting rifle (short = good for high stands and brushes, much less front heavy = faster on moving targets)
You really can see the muzzle flip with this rifle. Very interesting to watch it perform while being more balanced. Makes one wonder how it handled prior
Desert Tech just released a new compensator specifically designed to reduce recoil and minimize muzzle flip. Not sure how the suppressor would work with it, probably negate any effect.
I think if the ejection port was captive it would be much better. Still could make it swappable with the field strip but make it’s so you can access the chamber while using the rifle without removing a piece.
I had a bulpup .22lr the damn walther g22 that things balance was right under your rear hand, i got quite good with that thing, you could hold it on target all day and not get tired.
I came for a shitpost and stayed for quality content #doublebipodgang
Dugan Ashley may be missing in space, fighting space aliens, but his spirit lives on earth, in you, Karl.
Been saving up for one of these... now do I get black or tan? Hmm
13 pounds, holy crap! My all steel DSA Fal .308 weighs that much. The POF Revolution DI is about half as much.
If someone can't afford, or doesn't want the hassle of buying a can, the noveske KX3 should give you the same benefits.
I wonder if its more pleasant to shoot because it has a suppressor, removing blowback, and reducing noise so its easier on the ears.
This one is on my bucket list.
Or alternative to a suppressor is add a threaded muzzle weight / false suppressor tube.
Shame that the grip pod idea didn't work out but good on Karl for explaining why without coming of as condescending.
Oh and one point you heavily mention when it comes to bullpup issues ... maintenance.
The HS Produkt VHS-2 absolutely needs to be avaible for civilians.
That's a nice rifle, I like it. I'd like to get into bullpup rifles, the only experience I have with bullpups is the keltec KSG
I have the RBD, absolutely love it. Only issue I have with it and a lot of Bullpups is that when you have a malfunction, it is a lot harder to quickly clear in the field. For a particularly nasty double-feed, I essentially have to completely disassemble the gun. Not exactly fast
The AUG A3 is also a great pick if you can find one at a good price point (though they're absolutely worth Steyr's RRP in my opinion). The A3 in particular is just a better modernized AUG with more real estate, slimmer profile and a noticeably slicker trigger. It may have taken them forty years, but Steyr has finally worked out how to get a slick two stage trigger going. On civilian market rifles the trigger isn't a big issue for obvious reasons, and you can get aftermarket trigger groups to lessen the weight of pull even more.
Don’t thank me watching the MDR content. I’d take a whole lot more!
Me: Cool, good recommendation! I've been wondering about getting a bullpup (In the future, because no monies atm), since I live in a state that poo-poos NFA items.
Karl: "Run it suppressed."
Me: ...Well, shit.
As a MD resident, I 100% want a longer MDR, as the 16" is too short under MD law, but an 18 or 20" would be good to go (29" oal minimum on semi auto center fire rifles)
Your wish has been granted. DT just announced a 20" CA Compliant version. Should also work for MD.
Hey Karl, have you looked back into the Kel-Tec RDB? You guys had heaps of praise for it a while back. My buddy has one and its a joy to shoot and weighs a lot less than the MDR without the need for a finicky left/right conversion with me being wrong handed and all xD
Jesus, I nearly spat out my drink when you revealed the unloaded weight was 13lbs. That's insane for a 5.56.
I think a 6.5 Grendel would be the most optimal round in this platform for every thing you talked about in this video!
Great video as always! Ergonomics is always a matter of design and preference, but the balance of the rifle can shift especially if you're considering mounting all the laser, flashlight, suppressor and foregrip, which made the normal configuration rifle more front heavy while bullpup rifles would have it's rear biased weight "re-balanced".
Now that said... where's the M27 IAR follow up video? All about the internals and firing thing? Maybe you can try configure the MDR to kinda follow the IAR configuration with all the lasers and stuff and compare both of them? Because the while the IAR is a great rifle, it's also longer than your standard M4(not to mention heavier), plus modern armed forces around the world are starting to modernize their rifles with all kinds of attachments that made them more front heavy, could we reconsider bullpup configuration and see it in more mainstream use, especially that it doesn't sacrifice long range performance while retaining compactness for close quarters combat and having a more rear biased weight that will be balanced out by all those attachments?
Thanks.
I think a mini can would be perfect for the MDR. The 16in barrel probably doesn't need a full length can and it would keep the OAL shorter as well but still keep the balance point forward.
Get the side eject upgrade and slap that extended rail and please do another review!
I know during the lead up to release they talked about the MDR-E with a 20 inch barrel
looks like a cool dual purpose plinking and hunting rifle. Bit heavy but that can be fixed with longer e.g 24 inch light weight proof carbon barrel and like you said, perhaps with titanium suppressor. Needs to drop weight to 10lbs for a solid hunting unit shooting a bigger caliber and heavy bullets.
I am a strong supporter of ergonomic grips like the FAB Defense AG 44S, which works amazingly well on my FAMAS.
It keeps your rifle short and compact, and you still can use your weak arm as a support for mid range shooting (200 m) and get rid of the additional weight of the bipod.
I have to admit I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
Yes I am 😂
I like to keep it simple and light when it comes to rifle stuff: a sight, a forward grip and a good sling are, IMO, all what most people actually need
Unless they want to go super tacticool and shit
It seems weird to say, "I want the most out of a bullpup without focusing on the overall length." A 16" AR-15 is going to out perform a 16" Bullpup in almost every situation, but draw the line at 26" and now a 10.5" AR has to compete with a 16" barrel bullpup. Speaking of 10.5", the eventual MDR-C has a 10.5" barrel and sports a 20" overall length, which is nutty to me cause now we're comparing length to a 4.5" AR. And of course, the opposite is true: a 20" barrel in 6.5 grendel or 6.8 SPC would give us a nice compact (30") precision shooter. There's an aftermarket 6.5 CM barrel out there, I'd be interested in seeing how it performs with that.
thats a nope from me, 5.9kg is way to much
I want side eject (save half pound in the rear) with an 18 inch barrel and a weapon light upfront. I bet the balance would be perfect and likely still much shorter than a 16 inch Ar
Similar solution to the classic British way of fixing car handling on a racetrack...sling a bag of cement in the boot/trunk. heh. Cheers for the upload.
I thought sound supressors were forbidden, I really like them!
Nice suggestions for using the weapon "optimally". MDR is still the rifle I'd like to get, but I have a feeling I wouldn't be able to get the conversion kit for it. I'd really like to use it .223 for competitive shooting and .308 for hunting/longer range shooting.
UTG makes a 2 piece bipod that attaches to the side mlok slots on the handguard. I have a used one that I am replacing with a BLK LBL on my AR10. I would happily donate the UTG bipod to the channel. Let me know if you are interested.
i have never felt that ive needed a bipod at the ranges he's shooting... i think a foregrip and actually pulling the rifle into your shoulder would fix alot of his "snappy" issues...