Sony a7 iii: Which Color Profile works best for Skintones? a7M3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Course: www.learningvideo.com/store/a7...
This is an excerpt from my latest Sony a7M3 course. To see more about picture profiles and much more (over 5 hours) see the link above.
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Been watching you since you were messing around with magic lantern! Awesome to see all the new things you've done lately. Keep it up!
Some picture profiles aren't meant for skin tones, you can render good skin tones out of Sony, aaaand this is a very informative video on how to achieve that, aaaand that is also dependent on each one's personnal taste.
Thank you Dave, great work as always!
I don't like the way one Dave stares at me, while other one is talking
lol
Dave don’t like the skin he is in.
Really impressed by your investigation on color science. Thanks for your great video!
Seems like "Standard" is the only profile that's working.
But even in "Standard" I don't like that separation between yellow and magenta skin tones... makes people look like they got a cold.
Great job. To the point with getting into the weeds too much. Love the channel
Just got the a7III, and really liking it so far; it's been a nice upgrade from my original a7s. Even though I already own it, I'm still looking forward to your review. ;)
Thanks for doing this, it probably saved me hours.
Thanks, glad I could help.
thorough as always Dave
Thanks James
great video as always! I really enjoy your reviews!
Excellent comparisons. Thanks!
Standard has the best color science. Go figure....
Thank you for this video. Finally usefull video from the "good and bad sites" of a7iii ..... Thank you ...I enyoi thi video a lot.
Excellent comparison. I’m often torn between using Portrait mode (-3,-3,-3) and Neutral Mode (-3,-2,-3 to mimic s-log2), so more often than not I just use Neutral Mode.
Portrait better to me, Neutral makes the image looks dry
Interesting, i liked more your adjs neutral settings over standards, watching it thru the ipad 3.
Lighter reminded me how the highlights falloff of Canon cameras.
Really interesting test, want to see more about skin tones in your channel.
Thanks
Hey Dave just curious if you were ever be coming out with a Sony a 73 user guide. I purchased your Canon 5D Mark III user guide and loved it.
Thanks. Which one dou you think is the best to match with canon? I'm using Sony A6000 and Canon 70D. Absulately two different color science. It's quite hard to match them. What do you think which should i use on both? Before i was using portrait on Sony (0,-4contrast, 0,0), and neutral on Canon similar settings. Thanks.
Are all the third generation Alphas similar by colour? I'd value a colour-response comparison between A7III and the Nikon Z (perhaps also Canon EOS R, Panasonic FF+, Fuji GFX)
VERY good test again! Thank You!
Thanks for this...very helpful!
This was great... any chance to put Sony a7 side by side with a canon and then adjust sony color to match canons?
I'm going to take this course...thanks Dave great work
Thanks for your support Michael.
Yep i got it :)
I think results sometimes can be better if you stop lowering contrast to decrease saturation.
Glad you're back Dave! first comment!!
I'm new to the whole photography/videography thing. I have a question. Using an a7iii, I'm using Imaging Edge to project pictures to review as I take them. I'd like to review video too, how do I do that efficiently without having to disconnect and manually import video to my PC? There has to be a way!
I've found that deep has really nice performance in higlights
I use deep and knock it down to Cont -2 and Sat -1. Has a really great 'film' look to it.
I agree with Wacky Wakes. No matter what you do it never looks right. In contrast, when I compared the Panasonic GH5 "neutral" with contrast and sat. adjustments to my C200, clip shot in 8 bit with C-log 3 and a great looking Canon LUT added in post the Panasonic was almost identical--and both looked great.
Over all, I think Panasonic color science is superior.
No matter how much time I spend on the Sonys I just can't make skin tones look right. The one thing that really matters is the one thing Sony is yet to get right, at least IMO.
Nikon is great in skin tones too. Still trying to fix it with my Sony..
Is it correct that the picture profile is turned off to use Creative Style? Also What shooting mode (M/S/A/Video) do you typically used with Creative Style?
This is very helpful to me.. . thank you for sharing
Glad it was helpful!
How to optimise one of the standard or portrait settings for portraits drew me here but it was pretty pointless going through how to neutralise every specialised setting like autumn or landscape, to minimise the adverse impact on portraits!
This might be the first of your courses that I get, I am really intrigued by this a7iii talk. I am still on the a7s original and very happing using Slog2 with rec709 or pro color space. I really really love that look. I am a little bit worried to upgrade and having to re learn the color science since it has changed. Have you tried this on the Sony a7III? nice seeing you around here. cheers
Thanks Samiebuka, these tests were done on the a7iii if that is what you are asking.
Dave
Daveee we need the new video for sony a7s3 please!
great test thanks, standard is nice
Great video. Thank you.
hi dave...is creative style "standard" and Picture profile 1 or pp1 are same colors?thanks
Neutral 1,2,0 is the best imo
What bothers me about all of these is the cyan color coming off the desk just before being blown out completely... any reason for that?
Great job very informative. As far as the course you offer for the Canon6d. Is there any video of just what you are covering in it.
Thanks!
Not sure if I understand your question. There is a lot of video, over 4 hours worth.
Thank you !
Hello Dave, could you please share Yours dual illuminant profile made by a7iii with x-rite color checker?
Which LG monitor is that Dave?
I love this thank u 🙏🏼
Where do you get that clip for the XRite video Passport?
great video . thank you
Yep standard for sure looks the best. Don't even have the camera but still good to know haha
How to set clarity, contrast and kelvin in a7iii?
Standard Dave was so so quiet in this video!
I will have to talk with the Standard Dave to speak up a bit.
Hey Dave! I bought your GH4 course back when you released it and I was very happy with it :) I will probably be buying this one for my new A7III. Just one question: How much are you getting into the new hybrid-log gamma? I've seen some really interesting results over on Scott Jeschke's channel.
Sorry for the late reply. I do not cover HLG in any great detail, once I get an HDR monitor and experiment with HLG and the new monitor I will update this section in the course.
Actually Scott Jeschkle isn't using for HDR displays but he conforms it to rec. 709 and gets better dynamic range, colors and lower noise than cine4 and s-log.
I record with the A7RIII with HLG too. I like the colors better...
Dave... you are the perfectionist teacher. Do you have a shorter version without the beginner stuff? I am filming for some time with the A7sII and FS5, but you have for sure interesting settings like I see in the video here. Maybe think of a short version with the advanced filmguys? Thanks so much anyway and greetings from Austria
I should mention... I´ve sold my A7sII and bought the A7III. Nice upgrade but I cannot find a way to use the eyetracking AF in Video
well... I will buy it anyway Dave because you invested sooo much time in this testing. I will not ask for a discount! I buy it now. Thanks so much. Did you work already in color grading in Premiere with the latest update or do you only work with DaVinci resolve now?
just bought it. Maybe think of uploading your videos to VIMEO as payed content, so people cannot share just by mail.
Thanks Pedro for the support and your comments. Sorry for the late reply.
great job--incredibly useful information, thank you! pm-r :)
so really just use STANDARD. thx dave :)
I see less blown out highlights in the Night mode. 3:15
So wich one have more dynamic range Neutral, Portrait...?
Portrait has the most usable dynamic range of all Creative Styles. Slog has more however.
Very informative, thank you. I think you've highlighted how good and useful the standard profile is, and I'm surprised with how good night is. Until now I was switching between portrait and clear for my jpegs but I'm gonna switch it up. Personally I prefer slightly less saturation in my portraits so I've turned the saturation down -1 on my standard profile.
As someone who likes B&W and actually knows how to convert color to BW - what you like Dave is Gray :P not B&W .... hehe. Compare Fuji, they have one of the best ooc B&W settings.
Could you elaborate on the differences between gray and black? Arent they both the same with varying levels of light/exposure?
Well, watch LOGAN & MAD MAX: FURY ROAD in B&W, there are some trailers on YT, and pay attention to faces. the grey/grey ones are boring, the more contrasty B&W are cool. But tbh B&W is very subjective, it takes awhile until you find your "style". There are tons of books written about it.
Oh yeah Sin City is ofc the ultimate B&W movie - tho heavy stylized.
Are the results the same for photo?
Thank you for this. helped alot
Maybe Sony should introduce a Fuji color profile.
Thanks Dave this is very helpful. Im moving from Nikon to Sony soon (for video) - think I'll just stick standard profile. Either that or buy a 6D MK 2 for an easy life :-)
I have both (6D2/A73) and with RAW photos I still struggle with the Sony. I just can not get my kids face to look right. Every photo looks different between different lighting. I don't have this with my Canon. Very frustrating. Will keep trying.
Steve Tekguy yes the A73 is the higher speced camera - but I need to be able to get video clips the easiest and quickest way - plus I have to turn round my post production very fast - this is the only thing stopping me with the Sony. DPAF and touch focus would be a massive plus for me at the moment.
@@markshirley01
What did you choose? 6d M2 is awesome
Hmm... if I had to chose - then Standard all the way.. You can always tweek it in post, but as a base footage, Standard stands out. Thank you !
Never mind I just seen the link for it
When you are trying the 'optimum' colour profile for the skin tone, by changing the clour profile the color of shirt looks very different which one is more accurate?
I think it is somewhat subjective. But if you wanted to find the most accurate you can see which profile has the colors line up from the chart on the vectorscope, I think that one is Standard.
thanks for the reply, wonder you can answer this question; In one of your videos, you say A7RII in 4K video mode you only can take in crop mode, do you advise taking most important videos in 4K mode, and what cropped lens to you use if it's equivalent FF is 28mm FL?
Thanks for the info!
Now stop staring at my soul
Which one best for cinema
My A7 III blow out highlights very quickly compared to my GH5 ( both in standard video mode), it is normal ?
Yes and no. Depends on how you set it up. You can use the knee setting in picture profile mode (not creative) and lower the highlights or use a better gamma like cine 4 or 2 or log if you shoot flat.
i notice this as well
trying to figure it out
@@Ben-fq1lj I tried to play with the knee setting but the Highlights rolloff are just ugly compared to GH5 or NX1.
Did you find some good settings to protect highlights ?@@kathyrothwell7867
Excellent
Thanks
thanks
Which picture profile? PP2?
Sepia. Haven't seen you in a minute.
Standard (xiaomi smartphone)
standard and light are the best but I prefer standard. Then change the AutoWB to A-B:A2 and G-M: G0.25. Done
i'm thinking about this question last night, then i saw this video, WOW, can you read my mind or something? haha
Ha! Glad I could read your mind.
Which picture profile or color mode you like for skin tone?
Great video as always, just one thing, these are CREATIVE STYLES not PICTURE PROFILES.
Sorry if I confused the two. Since I have owned both Sony and Canon I can get those confused at times.
I really appreciate your dedication to Researching color science. Prores RAW will solve all your problems. You have a capable atomos, so you're one-step away from using a format that will eliminate all these color inconsistencies. Look into it. Cheers
Bobby Giggz Camera is still 8-bit 4:2:0. An external recorder can not change that.
Darryl Ephraums I understand. If camera makers implement PRORES raw, and export via hdmi, then we can begin capturing off the camera sensor. Most people would prefer the option to record raw to an external device.
ProRes Raw on the Sony cameras would Rock!
Standard looks the most balanced.. they should make that the standard profile.. hmmmm
Lol
"We are very sorry but our CEO's blind brother need a work too" - Said Sony PR manager about they color science. ))) It's great that SGamut3.Cine is still here) Weirdest color profiles I ever saw)))) Thanks Dave! BTW FilmConvert is an only reason I still own Sony)
Which of your classes best matches the a6500?
I would say the a73 course, but I have been thinking about making a course on the a6500, perhaps this fall.
Same here, i reckon the a7iii has better color science that the a6000 series which have a tendency of green hue.
Great test of all the settings! Honestly none of them look particularly natural or flattering, (just the nature of things with Sony color science) however of them, Neutral looks the most natural. The others all make you look like you need to visit the doctor to be checked for hepatitis.
Please compare a7 III and X-H1
Fuji destroy Sony with color science… No competition outthere
hi Dave, I tried to buy your course but I didn't find my country (lebanon) listed. Do you have any solution so I can buy the course?
Thanks for your interest. Are you referring to PayPal check out?
Hi again, yes sure, and this is where l didn't my country listed, note that all cards are available; credit, debit, internet cards (visa or mastercard)
That is odd that Lebanon is not listed, let me ask Paypal.
Hi Dave, any answer from PayPal? Can I choose another country and pay with one of my cards? I'm really interested with your course and the way you explain the camera.
Sorry for the late reply. From my research this is been happening for years now. You could try another country but Paypal might see that your IP address is from Lebanon. Sorry I am still digging into this.
The contrast and saturation ratios for skin look the best on standard because its flat and even with little to no splotchy hues/saturation. Light style looks like it would be great, its a shame they only give a general contrast control compared to the picture profiles (not picture styles) that allow you to finesse the knee which sony camera's desperately need for punchy in-camera profiles (or just in general).
Also, Dave hope you're doing well. I had a question, why did you choose not to go with the flanders AM210 before you found out about that asus OLED?
At this point I should have gone with the AM210, waiting for an inexpensive OLED might never happen.
Awesome thanks for saying that, I think its clear now what monitor I'm going to get :)
But how does it compare to our old Canon t2i? hehe Just kidding! Nice to see ya Dave! Great info as usual!
Ha, I like the Canon colors better.
Same here.
Why can’t Sony fix this with a firmware update?
Definitely not flattering on your skin. Not an issue if you are good with make up or are going for a "ultra real" look.
Portrait profile looks somewhat promising. At least its slightly softer with a little less ugly contrast between skin tones.
Hey buddy, Hows it going? long time no talk. I have this camera, do yourself a favor and get EOSHD ProLog and Pro Color 3, it's $36 and WAY Y worth it
they have not been updated for the A7iii yet, but Andrew is suppose to update them shortly. That said, it's great to really understand what your tool is doing. So what Dave has done is very valuable.
I have the EOSHD Pro and it’s not the same on the a7iii as it was on my a7sii!
is there a reason we can't make our own pro color? isn't it just tweaked profiles settings? ah, here we go. www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4232810 and something like this www.4kshooters.net/2015/09/02/three-custom-picture-profiles-for-your-sony-a7ii-mirrorless-camera/
It should work for the A7III. Most photogs or artist would prefer to spend less time in post fighting against the ICC and RAW converter. Tons of other things to be doing than fighting color gamut algorithms
EOSHD Pro Color V4 HDR: www.eoshd.com/2018/05/eoshd-pro-color-v4-hdr-for-the-sony-a7-iii-and-a7r-iii/
wow How can sony do such a bad work with skin tones? standard is the best but looks like yellowish to my eyes.
Standard profile turns your blue shirt green... Casts a yellow jaundice-like tint on your face.
Rather than spending ton of hours in post deviating from the art, one may find it a simpler solution by using Mr Andrew Reids EOSHD Pro.
Portrait makes you look like you just smoked a joint XD
Dude! :)
I don't shoot jpeg so is kind of useless for raw. But I guess if one day i become lazy and i have to buy a 1.5k camera I will buy a Fuji for the jpeg colors.b
Why cant sony just fix the damn colors already.. i find it ridiculous in cameras of this price range to have such unflattering skin tones.
long story short; shoot standard.
why the color changed. ur shirt. sony sux
Man I really don't like the Sony color science. It's just not where it's supposed to be.
true - they will come up with the color science from the FS5 II for the A7sIII - hopefully soon and hopefully with eye tracking also in video. Fingers crossed
When you say skin tones, are you talking about color or texture? Cause I think what a lot of people seem to mean when they say that is detail. The sony series capture way too much detail on the skin, but if you lower sharpening, use a diffusion screw-on filter, or use midtone detail in davinci, this isn't a problem. I think the skin tones on standard would look almost perfect if they changed the exposure of the skin (which you can do in post anyways).
I am referring to both, I agree that Sony has a little too much micro contrast in the skintones which really makes blemishes stand out.
Sorry Dave, I was talking to Wacky. (Not sure if you were talking to me). But either way thanks for adding in, as I get confused sometimes what people mean by skin tones. Agreed. I've made correction luts for my sony a7sii to match canon and the contrast on the face luma without the lut is not as flat as canon (at least with the profile I use).
100% I agree. With some of the Sony color profiles skin tones tend to look yellowish and magnify blemishes, often requiring more work in post to fix it. It undoubtedly yields an incredibly sharp picture with excellent dynamic range, though I do believe the color straight out of camera can be better.
These all look terrible. Sony can throw every feature they want into their cameras but the truth is Canon buries them when it comes to colors and especially skin tones and as a fashion/glamour photographer, thats far more important to me than all the bells and whistles.
Bought the sony a7riii and very disappointed with sony skin tone , very hard to set it right , nikon ,canon and leica far better .
still searching for better skin tones..
@@sotosnik still struggling with my sony😆bad bad skin tones
Try no colour profiles, add some red too..
Had to go with canon because of these stupid colors. Come on sony!
When sony repair their Orange faces then it Will bé a great Day and probably i buy a sony camera because of its high iso advantages. Please sony repair your terrible Orange skin tones. Do not be deaf. I Will be lucky.
Best way to get good skin tones from a Sony is to leave it on the shelf and use a Canon instead.
Canon does have some nice skin tones that is for sure.
Best way to get good skin tones is to know how to use color correctly. Canon is nothing special other than that it just requires a different type of correction (canon is actually very monotone compared to sony when it comes to indoor lighting, hence more imperfections). Sony is just a matter of creating a camera profile that doesn't use the s-gammuts or cinema color space and just knowing how good color works: i.e. tightening/compressing the hues of the skin tones, desaturating the highlights/shadows/oversaturated skin colors, creating scientific luts, etc...
Most people are lazy and just don't put in the time or waste their time doing it the wrong way.
Lmaaaooo
Best way to get stupid opinions from Canon fanboys indeed.
Camera Perv LOL! That was good! 😂
skin tones are the absolute worse on sony. What good is it to have good dynamic range, and high iso capability if your subjects look sickly do to atrocious color science. Sony you haver had more than enough time to get this right. I'm not hopping on this bandwagon just yet. Images for video look cheap and frail, compared to canon's thicker and richer colors.