Polyrhythm vs. Polymeter
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
- Learn the difference between polyrhythms and polymeters with this simple lesson, featuring examples inspired by the Stranger Things soundtrack.
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Polyrhythms, polymeters, pollywogs... these are strange things, right? Wrong! They're our friends, well, only when you take the time to get to know them. After our "Polymeter Bass" video last week, our inbox filled up with questions about the difference between polyrhythms (two or more rhythms playing simultaneously) and polymeters (two or more time signatures playing simultaneously), so we decided to make a lesson on this oft-misunderstood topic! In this Hack Music Theory lesson, Ray uses a Stranger Things soundtrack inspired synth chord progression and bass line as the foundation to write two versions of the same melody: one is polyrhythmic, and one is polymetric. He teaches the theory along the way for 4:3 and 3:2 polyrhythms, and an 11/8 over 4/4 polymeter, and finishes with an epic A/B comparison of a polyrhythm and a polymeter, so you can finally hear and know the difference. Click play now, and say goodbye to all your poly-confusion once and for all. But first... tea!
INTRO
0:00 Introduction
1:44 Chord Progression
2:53 Polymeters & Polyrhythms Defined
3:32 Two Melodies: Polymeter vs. Polyrhythm
POLYMETER
3:58 How to Write a Melody in a Polymeter
5:29 Two Ways to Loop the Other Time Signature
6:24 Choosing Notes for the Melody
6:58 Cutting the Last Bar of a Polymeter to Align
9:17 Polymetric Melody (Example)
POLYRHYTHM
9:41 How to Write a Melody in a Polyrhythm
11:19 Moulding the Melody into a Polyrhythm
12:43 Speeding Up the Polyrhythm
13:53 Unpolyrhythm it!
14:50 Polyrhythmic Melody (Example)
COMPARISON
15:41 Polymeter vs. Polyrhythm (Final Example)
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Who is RAY HARMONY?
Ray is an award-winning music lecturer and the author of the critically-acclaimed book series, Hack Music Theory. After decades of teaching ‘popular’ and ‘classical’ music theory, Ray created a unique crossover method for songwriting, which we call Hack Music Theory. We use this method to write all our music. Ray’s songs have even featured Serj Tankian (System of a Down), Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine), Kool Keith, and many more.
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Who is KATE HARMONY?
Kate is the only person on the planet who's been trained by Ray Harmony to teach his Hack Music Theory method. In 2014, she undertook her formal teacher training at the Revolution Harmony School of Music, and has since become a partner and lead teacher, training up the next generation of Hack Music Theory teachers. Kate has a Grade 8 (the highest grade) Distinction in Popular Music Theory from the London College of Music, and is also a songwriter, recording artist and producer.
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Aka: Meshuggah's debunked. Would kill to see a lesson about syncopation! It was the simplest explanation about this topic ever. You've made musical theory so more friendly.
This is amazing. I've just discovered that a lot of my favourite music uses these 'hacks'.
In this one, the polymeter one gives you more of a feeling of exploring and wandering about;
the polyrhythm gives you more of a feeling of being lost.
Both bring you back home.
I absolutely love the multi-layered nature of these melodies.
Thank you guys so much. This video was so helpful to tie up any loose ends I had with regards to Polymeter versus Polyrhythm.
These videos are always so well thought out, structured and well produced, I absolutely love it.
* *VOTE NOW* * Which do you prefer, the *Polymeter* or the *Polyrhythm* ? (listen at 15:41 to compare)
Revolution Harmony *polyrhythm*
although both sound really entertaining
First of all, You guys ROCK! Thank you for this video! I get it now. For me it is Polymeter.
Im a polyrythm guy at heart. So yeah... oh, and pollywogs ( one of my nicknames ).
Really excellent explanation of the two concepts. Well done. Triplets are such a secret weapon.
I feel a Stranger Things binge coming on myself this weekend. :-)
Polymeter is my favorite but the polyrythm still sounds amazing.
Polymeter in this example...;-)
This is a really well made video. Everything is clearly explained and the examples sound really amazing. My favorite episode to date!
Yay, so thrilled that we made your favourite video to date, Ian! It was fun to make too :D
Hope you had lovely time at the theater, we missed you in the Q&A today!
Take care and have a wonderful weekend! Kate :)
amazingly well explained. Good examples. Big thaks! id love to see how do you apply those concepts on drums, fx or percs to enhace the groove of clasic 4/4
Thank you so much. This was an awesome explanation. It makes things much clearer. I'm a self taught guitarist, I've learnt most things on my own, but it's people like you who propel my understanding of music in leaps and bounds.
Hey Anustuv!! So pumped to hear that this brought you clarity and thanks for sharing a little about yourself. Hope you're having a great weekend! By the way, where are you from? Kate :)
Hi Kate! Great to hear from you, your channel is awesome. I'm from India, and am currently pursuing a phd in Physics. Music is my other love. It was great to see this video right after my previous comment on the other video. Can I make a suggestion for a lesson? Let's say I have composed a song on my guitar, it has a main riff, two or three sections and I can imagine a full composition in my head, I am ready to record. The question is how do I take it to a production quality song. I know that this is not a simple process and I have heard terms like arranging, editing, mixing, mastering and many others. Im not sure what they technically mean but I guess what I am asking is what is the process of making a song with many instruments starting from some basic ideas. I also love that you use Reaper, it's the easiest. Well, if you already have a lesson like that please point me in the right direction. Thanks!
You both have outdone yourself again!
Simple example beats that in the end made me nodd my head with amazement! could see myself driving at night on the autobahn listening to a track made out of this.
👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hallo Jelly! Glad you liked Ray's examples. I think we could probably convince him to do a whole song like this! Wir hoffen, Sie haben ein gutes Wochenende. We just watched the trailer for the upcoming German Netflix show "Dark", so we're looking forward to learning more German words while watching a thriller! Pass auf!
Revolution Harmony Hahaaa 😄 great! I do hope the show is shot in german and not synchronized, as they like to ruin every show/movie with a hideous synchronisation over here 😃 (another reason why we germans suck at speaking engish compared to our surrounding countries in the north)
Viele Grüße und auch Euch ein schönes Wochenende! 😉
The end of the Polymeter then Polyrhythm, was great. You know, 8bars of PM then 4 bars of PR would make a awesome verse & chorus song segment!
I get the difference between Polyrhythm and Polymeter but what about Polyunsaturated fats ;)
Haha, nice Chris! Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment, we're deeply grateful to you. Until next time, happy songwriting!
Just don't try playing polyurethane on an electric guitar. It just doesn't work. ;P
Excellent. Thank you!
Super cool explanation and demonstration. thanks bud.
Thanks big time for stopping by and connecting, Audiowavez Official!
Dude . . mind blown. This is great. Ive written some stuff where is did this by accident, seeing it mapped out like this though. . totally cool.
Haha, happy to hear this one blew your mind, Funk Apus! What kind of music do you make? Thanks big time for being a part of the Hack Music Theory community, we really appreciate you, and we hope to see you again soon for more theory hacks! Until next time, take care :)
I think the polyrhythm suits the "Stranger Things" idea better. Could you do a video where you zoom out a little and talk about overall song structure? I enjoyed your videos on verses and choruses, but I would like to know how to transition from one to the other... and whatever else comes to mind.
Awesome video guys, very informative! 😁
This was super informative and helpful. Thank you!
We're really happy you enjoyed our video, instanthorror! Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment, we're deeply grateful to you. Until next time, happy songwriting! Kate :)
Excellent video Ray, definitely inspired me to write some stuff using this.
Aw thanks for watching and connecting, ConspiresTo, it always makes us happy to know that our hacks are helping musicians! Until next time, take care and happy music making!
Awesome video, so helpful! Thanks for making it c:
Hey thanks for watching and connecting, Spencer, it always makes us happy to know that our hacks are helping musicians! Until next time, take care and happy songwriting! Kate :)
Definitely enjoyed the vintage video effects on this. Stranger things was a great show.. still waiting for season 3 to come out! That will be this year though (I know, 2 years after the video..). Of the 2 play throughs at the end, I noticed the polymeter example seemed to have a higher energy to it while the polyrhythm had more of a morose or melancholy feel to it.
Great video thank you
Great video, just a question: when printing this music to a score will you show the meter changes, or do you leave them to 4/4
thank you this is the peace i´m searching for... this will bring up my music to the next level. :-)
Aw thanks for watching and connecting, d4bk, it always makes us happy to know that our hacks are helping musicians! We hope to hear from you again, so until next time, happy music making! Kate :)
Really exciting tutorial, thanks for doing it.
We're really pumped you enjoyed our video, Jelly Eyes! Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment, we're deeply grateful to you. Until next time, happy songwriting! Kate :)
hi id really love to know how you configured reaper inside the piano roll to make a midi note stick to the grid with a single mouse click, i always need to drag the note in there.
This was incredible.. hooked to your channel. :)
Thanks so much for watching RokZRooM! We're thrilled to hear you're hooked and pumped to welcome you into our Hack Music Theory revolution! Until next time, take care and happy songwriting! Kate :)
Sick outro!!
Great. I will try it for my next song. Thank you. Love your channel. ;-)
Aw thanks for watching and connecting, Explorer2000, it always makes us happy to know that our hacks are helping musicians! Have a great weekend! Kate :)
My new favourite channel. Loving this stuff dude.
Chris my friend, thanks big time for your super kind comment, and a warm welcome to the Hack Music Theory community, we're super stoked and grateful to have you here! Thanks for binge-watching our videos dude, it means the world to us that you're finding them so helpful. By the way, if you haven't already, please help yourself to our free theory book, over at: hackmusictheory.com/books - Thanks again mate, you're awesome!! Ray :)
Fascinating. I love this (I assume) unconventional music making. You have great knowledge. Thanks.
Wow, so awesome that you're loving our videos Francis! Yes, you are right this is an unconventional way of making music these days, that's why we call it revolutionary! So, we a pumped to have you as part of our Hack Music Theory revolution!! By the way, how's your songwriting coming along? Also, where are you based? Kate :)
Hi Kate, thanks. I'm in Sydney, Australia and the song writing is coming along despite distractions. (Mum (& I) seeming to have medical appointments every other day). Yes, your videos are inspiring, interesting & fun. I have to go back and watch from the beginning. I know there is so much more to learn.
Hey Francis, thanks so much for sharing about yourself, sorry to hear that you have many medical appointments, I hope all is well. Yes, there's always so much to learn and so little time, but it's so worth it to hear your creations come alive! All our best to you, take care. Kate :)
Amazing!
Really good job Ray! Music Pedagogy at its best.
Thanks gktde9874 :) Have a fabulous week!
HI! Can anyone tell me when and where they use polymeter on Stranger Things? like what episode etc.. it will really help me! thank you and a great video!!!
You are bloody awesome. Great teacher, great style, great musician. Thank you so much! (And yes you earned a new subscriber :P )
is there a such thing as a super like?
I can't find the super like button
Sooooo happy you dig our video, twoHRdrive, thank you kindly for taking the time to watch, connect and subscribe, we are deeply grateful to you! Take care and until next time, happy songwriting! Kate :)
Very Cool dude, Great video
Will this say, that the essential difference is, that polymeters are different times signatures together and polyrhythms the same but different rhythms.. so 3/4 against 4/4 fx is polymetric or polyrhythmic?
Hi I’m new to the channel & I really am glad I subscribed, I was just wondering what this program you’re using is.
It's Reaper.
Hey thanks so much Alex, and a warm welcome to our Hack Music Theory community! As Peter kindly commented, we use Reaper :) What kind of music are you making? We publish new vids every Monday, so we hope to see you again soon for more theory hacks! Until then, have a wonderful week :)
Hey Ray, love your videos! What's the midi controller you use on your computer?
Hi Lena H, thanks so much for watching and connecting! We use Reaper and are big fans of the software and the company for so many reasons! They give you a free 60-day trial of the full program and it's relatively inexpensive to buy at US$60. You can check it out here: www.reaper.fm. Take care and we hope to hear from you again. Happy Songwriting! Kate :)
Thanks!
Fun stuff, thank you
Super glad you liked the video Dan! Hope you're well and having a great weekend :)
whats the name of the synths you're using? sounds cool
Why do I want to type Polystyrene? Or, more to the point, why did I type it? Time for more Yorkshire tea down here in Essex along with thanks!
Hey ajadrew! Thanks for being so engaged, we're pumped to have you here in our Hack Music Theory revolution...or should I say there in Essex in our revolution?! Regardless, we're happy you're here! We stay connected to the British culture by watching Channel4...last night we binged on house programs :) Enough about us, what kind of music do you make? Hope you're having a great weekend! Kate :) ps. not sure about your Polystyrene... but it fits in with the poly theme we got going on ;)
Yep, it was the poly theme that created the mindless styrene..;-)) I make stuff up off the top of my head but have realised I didn't know anything so started studying harmony a while back which I love! I play bass & use Logic but again, I'm not very teknickle... Also I don't make videos but had a go on a track called Festival I recorded about 9yrs ago. Your videos inspire me & I'm gonna use your polymeter idea to creat a different feel over a funk groove I did yesterday...should be fun!!!
th-cam.com/video/Jzf-ly0ZX2s/w-d-xo.html
The combination of the two at he end sound very edgy. Awesome!
Super happy to hear that you enjoyed this one Augusto, it's a super fun topic!
Awesome
unique
The polymeter version sounds more chaotic and random to me, which is great if that is the effect you're after. If I want my listeners to feel unsettled, I'll consider polymeter. If I want them to dance with confidence, polyrhythm is the way to go. Am I right in assuming that all polymeter phrases are also polyrhythmic?
Nice, Ray. 👌🏻
Kevin my friend, how are ya? It's sooooo good to hear from you, and you won't believe it, I still have a draft email half written to you! My inbox has exploded over the last few months, so I semi-abandoned it haha! Will definitely get that email finished and sent to you though, before Christmas I promise, and yes, Christmas 2017 haha :) Hope you're well dude, and looking forward to chatting more...
Revolution Harmony Ray, no worries dude! I can imagine you’ve got a lot of online communication going on. No rush, really, but that was nice of you to write me a note. Going to be a busy upcoming year for me with music as well so it’ll be fun to keep an eye on each other! Still love the channel, man, keep it up!
Amazingly amazing, sounds like an exciting year ahead, so happy for you Kevin! Will get that email over to you soon, then we can start chatting about some potential ideas :)
Oh my god i used the polymeterthing with my band! I wrote a 3/4 melodie over a 4/4 chordprogression, i didnt know that its a technique with a name xD I wanted that melodie to feel like its floating above the rest and is not locked in a static rythm. Sad that a girl didnt understand that and just said its bullshit we cant do that because i wasnt even able to write a proper melody that fits into the 4/4 bars...
Hey hey MusikFreak! Happy to hear that you can now put a name to the music you're making. Now you can share this video with your band and everyone can be on the same page with you :) Thanks so much for watching and sharing, we really appreciate it, until next time, take care and happy songwriting!
What is the name of that software?
I must be a poly-something because people think I'm strange but if get to know me... =D
Now thank you for clarifying the notions of polyrhythm and polymeter because I've seen a ton of miscellaneous things on the internet and what I ended up is feeling confusion and feeling that it is somewhat incorrect or vague to the least.
Holy f*ck i love switching from one to the other. The effect is super cool.
Haha, I like it! I suppose we're all a little bit of a poly-something :)
Thanks so much for watching and connecting, ooo ooo, it always makes us happy to know that our hacks are helping musicians! On that note, what kinda music do you make, and where are you based?
Take care and happy songwriting! Kate :)
lol my brain doesn't like the polyrythm rubbing against each other XD
What MIDI editor are you using?
He's using Reaper. He's mentions it in one of the first videos on the channel. I picked it up after seeing him mute individual selections.
ok so a polyrhythm is when two different patterns, are going on in the same time signature, but polymeter is when two different instruments(guitarists, bass drum + snare etc) are going at two different time signatures? does time signature matter? confused 🙃love your channel!!
You got it, Ryan! A polyrhythm is when the subdivision is different, for example, one instrument is playing on an 1/8 notes grid and the other one is playing on an 1/8 note triplet grid. And yes, they align on beat 1, so the time signature can actually be the same. Whereas in a polymeter, the time signatures are different, like one instrument is playing in 7|8 while the other one is playing in 4|4. But, in a polymeter the subdivision is the same, for example, both instruments are playing on an 1/8 note grid. Anyhoo, hope that helps, and welcome to the Hack Music Theory community, Ryan, we're super stoked to have you here :)
Hack Music Theory you two are the best! it’s all clear now 👍🏼😎✌🏼 thank you!!
What is program you use in this video? Is this a Reaper ?
Hi Константин Лактионов, sorry for the late reply! Yes, you're right, we use Reaper and are big fans of the software. We'd love to know what kind of music you make? A very warm welcome to the Hack Music Theory community and we wish you a lovely 2022!
@@HackMusicTheory I am too music hacker, but without theory. I am absolute amateur. I make soundtracks for my game. I play with midi. I take classical midi music, revert it (if it was going down now it's going up) and find some relations between notes. Then combine this in patterns. Find new speed. And add some twists. I like keep it in minimalism. Sometimes I do geometry-music, like dark midi, I mirrored pattern and draw some visuals from it. I can do only octave(several) up and down, it's fits my ears. If I do tones and halftones it's not work for me and my skill. So I take one ready pattern and do copy of it in other octave. My main sound is piano and others sound are modern synth. From one classical piece I can "extract" many and many new pieces.
I use Reason Studio and like for me there are not much midi manipulations tools. Also I would like to add some vocal in my music, like instrument, not lyrics.
👍Nice
Thank you, Just hear it! Cheers!
Thanks! I was wondering why all the comments were a year old lol
Totally mind fucked when trying to play these in real instruments with a band/backing track!
Boom! There goes the brain!
Haha! Fun right?! Thanks for watching and I hope you're having a super fantastic week! Kate :)
Dude! Spoiler Alert on Stranger Things 2.
We are watching it til tomorrow night.
Hope we didn't spoil it too much! Did you enjoy your weekend binge? Thanks for watching and have a great week!
Polymeter
Yay polymeters! Thanks for watching Franz :)
What is the software you are using?
Hi manash, thanks so much for watching and connecting! We use Reaper and are big fans of the software and the company for so many reasons! They give you a free 60-day trial of the full program and it's relatively inexpensive to buy at US$60. You can check it out here: www.reaper.fm. Take care and we hope to hear from you again. Happy Songwriting! Kate :)
Hack Music Theory Love your videos. Keep making them man, these are really helpful for self taught musicians.
Hack Music Theory Hey one more thing. Can you make a video explaining downbeats and upbeats for different time signatures like in 7/8, 5/4, 17/16 and for the different sibdivisions. Because most of the videos explain them only in 4/4.
polyrhythms 4 the win
Yay!! Thanks for watching and connecting Cole , hope you're having a great weekend!
make "how to make better lyrics" you have songs, pls teach us
Here's our video on writing lyrics, hope it inspires you! Thanks for watching :) th-cam.com/video/9784l_Glgdg/w-d-xo.html
Someone likes t
that's a huge amount of drugs