I feel bad for Jay being the type of guy who spends a heap of time on his models and making fun flavourful lists meanwhile having a friend who's a massive powergamer.
We had a guy like that in my game group for years. He played multiple spammy annoying armies over that time until one day I flat out told him I hated his army and that every game I played with him was an act of charity. He actually seemed shocked by how much everyone disliked playing with him. We eventually solved it by having everyone refuse to play him if he didn't tone it down, but we'd allow him to go spam crazy once every few games so he could still get to do some of the stuff he liked.
Also i think you guys need to reread a lot of the Rules. I think you misread the "Big Guns Never Tire" rule and also the Detachment rule for guard is lethal hits not rerolls. Also a big tip after hearing you guys's scores at the end of turn 4: Focus more on scoring instead of trying to kill his tanks. Take 3 Ripperswarms in Deepstrike to complete "Behind Enemy Lines" and "Investigate Signals" easily. Try to Play the primary mission well, because if by turn 3 your army is pretty much wiped but you scored like 80 Points there is no way he can catch up. If you keep laming him out like this we will eventually go towards a more balanced list.
This only applies if you're playing Only War, the Leviathan mission rules specify the surviving player can finish up their turns after tabling@@Meako92
Waiting for the episode where we get bated “how could I have more to say? Well I don’t.” Jumps straight to patreon AD, then right back to the episode 😂
@@jaybowler3121-1 to hit for indirect is countered by 'heavy' for staying still, so hitting on 4's. (+1, -1) Then you get ordered to shoot better, so hitting on 3's. +1 to WS, so hitting on 3's. Note that it's WS, not to-hit, so does stack. Then Expert Bombardiers gives +1 to hit with indirect. So +2, -1 -> total of +1. You're now hitting on 2's. With lethals for standing still. Then re-roll 1's from the scout sentinel. Then they stack fields of fire for +1 ap (for free - ursula creed) Or you can use the scout sentinel - on top of reroll 1's, it also ignored the penalty to hit from indirect fire. And the manticore rerolls all hits anyway, against anything with more than 5 models. So... guard really, really doesn't care about that -1 to hit.
Jay won?! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... MASS HYSTERIA! It is the end times, people! I wonder what enjoyment Shaun gets from running his list? It seems really unengaging. Maybe Jay could do a Shaun interview.
Congrats Jay! Honestly what makes me happiest is you're taking the win the right way and not being a sore winner about it. You are the mvp when it comes to good sportsmanship.
They did Warhammer 40k art book called visions of war the art of space marine battles and it is indeed limited edition being the owner of number 40 of 1000
Maybe Jay misspoke? Or his friend made a mistake? Benefit of the doubt out of the way, I don't believe his friend has been playing fair, at all, and that might include getting rules like this completely wrong. Maybe some/all intentionally. Wonder if he's been doing reroll ones and lethal hits together. I don't wanna be that guy and accuse someone of cheating without evidence but Jay's too nice. Very least they should be coaching Jay on how to beat their army, or taking less skew to be more fun.
Yeah I haven't been playing munch against Guard This edition, but hits on 2's rerolls 1 feels like way over tuned and I can't imagine that's the rules for guard when they are at 45% win rate.
@@SamFisk It could just be a mistake of thinking lethal hits means rerolling 1s. There are a couple different weapons keywords in Kill Team that do things like that, which they also play. I'm not trying to accuse Sean of cheating, just curious how it's happening. I just started playing Guard and if there is something I'm missing I'd love to know so I can give it a try myself. I just havent seen anything for armywide rerolls.
The only way to fix tyrant guard is to fix the whole body guard mechanic being that they adopt the move characteristic of the model they’re protecting and once they’re dead u just save on the leaders save profile no dumb “well the units dead but the rest of these saves are on the dead units save characteristic” (edit: spelling)
A 40k art book series should be by era/edition. First book is all Rogue Trader era art, second book could be like 2nd edition era, etc... That way they could come out with a new book at the end of each edition compiling art from that time period.
Hey Jay, I just picked up a new chaplain model. It's a dark angels one from 2012 still on sprue. It's a nice looking 6 part model. There's a scope on his plasma pistol that for some reason just cracks me up.
You’re absolutely right about Tyrant Guard being useless with Hive Tyrant or Swarmlord, noticed that myself too. However they do make a pretty nice bodyguard for Neurotyrant.
You said you charged his banehammer so it forced him to kill the screamer killer in order to shoot at other units. He does not have to target the unit in engagement range. He can target any unit, just at a minus -1 to hit. See the diagram #1 under big guns never tire Rules Commentary document... Part A specifically.
Im still disappointed that the First Founding coffee table book limited. I understand the special editions being limited but if they cant make enough, i wish these books were MTO
I would focus more on the primary mission objective and secondary mission objectives. In 10th an army that isn't as "good" as the other can easily win if they are smart with the secondaries and primary. Also Gambit cards...
Funny... i know your suffering. Me and my buddy have been in an armsrace since 9th tyranid codex came out. He threw out more and more infatry and replaced it with Big Bugs and i started to go towards a Parking Lot Chaos Space Marines list. Now he has only Big Bugs and i pretty much only have Tanks and a few scoring units so we can finally play even games but when we play someone else they just get completely destroyed.
40k Really needs to deemphasize first turn. The die roll is so important for that. And instead of doing something smart like making fire phased or simultaneous, they just advise, 'fill up the map with more terrain, lol!'
While I agree that how turn sequencing works now does not make for very fun experiences sometimes, I don't think there are many good solutions to this. Someone will always get to shoot first, which has an inherent advantage. The GW terrain layouts do usually ensure that both players should have ample opportunity to consider a defensive deployment where you have to choose which of your pivotal units you may want to hide for at the very least the opponent's first turn, and which simply don't have space to hide in efficiently. Making more use of reserves could remedy this as well. Having a big tank roll in from a flank on turn 2 and miss the first turn of shooting isn't a disaster, and often even has many benefits, assuring lines of fire your opponent could not have covered if you had put it on the table turn 1. The one thing I personally wish they'd do, is make indirect fire stuff a lot cheaper, but MUCH less efficient. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have a rule where artillery needs to "range" its guns for a turn before being able to shoot. Similarly to how turn 1 flyers would be horrendously unfun, I feel the biggest culprit of "turn 1 feelsbad" moments is by far indirect fire, cause there just is no possible defense against it. Flyers can only come in turn 2, so why would indirect get a possibly crippling free shot in on turn 1? I feel 40k has too many "moving parts" on the table to do anything like sequential actions. It works for smaller scale games like Killteam or Warcry, where the amount of "things" both players can field are at least vaguely similar. It's not uncommon for one player to choose to bring all of the biggest, shootiest, hittiest things and have 8 units in total, and the opponent choosing an MSU approach that can field upward of 16-20. I don't think you can sequence that in a similar way Killteam and Warcry do.
@@maxmagnus377 Legions Imperialis, Epic Space Marine, Squad Leader, Bolt Action all handled this really well with shared turns, alternating activations. The die roll was still moderately important since whomever got to go first got the first shot off in essence, but it was minimized and it also made it so you would still have a good game even in terrain where it wasn't completely filled up with LOS breaks. This was helped with order tokens that you only revealed after you gave orders to every unit. It created a much better feeling of a battle flow, in 40k you are passive about 45% of the time. But having the quick back and forth of alternating activations kept you fully focused.
@@QisforQadim I wonder how those systems handle asymmetry in possible activations then? Cause "fair" would be if everything got an activation in a round, so what happens when one side has 5 more things to activate?
@@maxmagnus377 It's different between each. Some have it so a person activates 1, then another activates 2. Another loads them all up at the end. Though also if one has fewer total detachments then they get an inherent bonus to initiative so the smaller force gets the more valued first activation, while the larger gets the wrap up.
Honestly if GameWorkshop want to sell limited run Artwork boof and want to be taken seriously, both as a collector item and as an art book, they should AT THE VERY LEAST publish it in a lay-flat binding. The fact that their over priced art book are binded normally is a fucking joke.
We know the Kroot Hounds' mouvement stat is 12" already We know they can go up to 30" with advance and charge Advance adds up to 6" and charge up to 12", so that leaves a normal move of 12"
A were-kroot, so a Kroot that got bitten by a Kroot-hound? That's just a Kroot-kroot, or the missing link Kroot. I wouldn't mind an actual were-kroot (a human cursed to turn into a Kroot!).
I’m pretty sure grammatical it’s ”I won good” . Congratulations on the win!! I have yet to win also!! I always lose to my wife 😢. Thanks gents!! Fantastic as always!!!
The fact that 1st turn advantage matters so much is exactly why 40k just isn’t a very good game. It’s is popular, and it can be fun, but it’s not a good game.
The reason GW produces 6,500 copies of a particular item is simple; it's their brand strategy. They feed on FOMO, and "keeping the brand premium", etc. They've acknowledged this directly for the past 10-15 years at minimum. It's the same reason they "don't do sales", etc. They are very careful to manipulate the market and their audience/consumer base. GW has the production capacity to make...any number of any product. The limited edition books, etc. are a deliberate choice to manipulate their consumers. Just one of the many reasons I don't partake in GW products anymore. I'm not saying it's wrong or evil, but it's simply a marketing/sales strategy. One I choose not to support.
Head to squarespace.com/eonsofbattle to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code eonsofbattle
You've done it, you've become the Warhammer 40,000.
I liked the part where he said "It's Warhbin' Time!" and warhb'd all over the place.
This is the best comment! Love it.
Can't wait for him to kill Horus Heresy
"You've done it Horus, you've beat me. You really are the Warhammer Forty-Thousand."
-The Emperor of Mankind
40,000 point "Oops, All Hammers" list 😄
I feel bad for Jay being the type of guy who spends a heap of time on his models and making fun flavourful lists meanwhile having a friend who's a massive powergamer.
We had a guy like that in my game group for years. He played multiple spammy annoying armies over that time until one day I flat out told him I hated his army and that every game I played with him was an act of charity. He actually seemed shocked by how much everyone disliked playing with him. We eventually solved it by having everyone refuse to play him if he didn't tone it down, but we'd allow him to go spam crazy once every few games so he could still get to do some of the stuff he liked.
The arc has been completed. Congratulations Jay, you'll always be the lovable underdog
now you just need 40000 warhammers
Also i think you guys need to reread a lot of the Rules. I think you misread the "Big Guns Never Tire" rule and also the Detachment rule for guard is lethal hits not rerolls. Also a big tip after hearing you guys's scores at the end of turn 4: Focus more on scoring instead of trying to kill his tanks. Take 3 Ripperswarms in Deepstrike to complete "Behind Enemy Lines" and "Investigate Signals" easily. Try to Play the primary mission well, because if by turn 3 your army is pretty much wiped but you scored like 80 Points there is no way he can catch up. If you keep laming him out like this we will eventually go towards a more balanced list.
Points dont matter if you’ve got no models left on the table..
This only applies if you're playing Only War, the Leviathan mission rules specify the surviving player can finish up their turns after tabling@@Meako92
Waiting for the episode where we get bated “how could I have more to say? Well I don’t.” Jumps straight to patreon AD, then right back to the episode 😂
Or, “how could I have more to say? Well I don’t.”, and the episode ends.
April Fool’s Day episode 😂
Btw you and Shaun have the rules wrong might want to look into it… guard gets lethal hits when stationary not reroll 1s thats from the scout sentinel
Not to mention -1 to hit roll for indirect if not in line of sight
Edit: changed + to -
@@jaybowler3121-1 to hit for indirect is countered by 'heavy' for staying still, so hitting on 4's. (+1, -1)
Then you get ordered to shoot better, so hitting on 3's. +1 to WS, so hitting on 3's. Note that it's WS, not to-hit, so does stack.
Then Expert Bombardiers gives +1 to hit with indirect. So +2, -1 -> total of +1. You're now hitting on 2's. With lethals for standing still. Then re-roll 1's from the scout sentinel.
Then they stack fields of fire for +1 ap (for free - ursula creed)
Or you can use the scout sentinel - on top of reroll 1's, it also ignored the penalty to hit from indirect fire.
And the manticore rerolls all hits anyway, against anything with more than 5 models.
So... guard really, really doesn't care about that -1 to hit.
Not to mention you cant brinng more than 3 of a kind in 10th edition.
I don't think I've ever clicked on one of your videos as quickly before! I saw you won and literally cheered!
Jay won?! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... MASS HYSTERIA! It is the end times, people!
I wonder what enjoyment Shaun gets from running his list? It seems really unengaging. Maybe Jay could do a Shaun interview.
Guard rules kinda encourage a bit of a shooting line right now because of their army rule.
Throwing things at tanks won't force the tanks to fall back, but it could give them the -1 from Big Guns Never Tire.
Yes, rules have changed regarding this and it sounded as if they did not acknowledge...
Rules Commentary for big guns never tire diagram 1
Can't blast into combat.
Congrats Jay! Honestly what makes me happiest is you're taking the win the right way and not being a sore winner about it. You are the mvp when it comes to good sportsmanship.
So he's bringing that list constantly Damn!! Guess not alot of other people like playing Shawn. Congrats on the win
I can only assume that Shaun is great fun to be around, and so that offsets his unfortunate army choice.
Imagine playing that guard army into someone with leviathan tyranids...many times. Good gracious lol. Well done on the win, Jay!
Guard is one of those armies ive lost all passion for playing against. Just a stat check you win in list building.
I wish i could post the meme reaction pic of the megamind "he did it..." after reading the title XD
Been waiting for this vid for a long time. Well played
They did Warhammer 40k art book called visions of war the art of space marine battles and it is indeed limited edition being the owner of number 40 of 1000
40? 1000?! 40,000?!?
The army rule for Guard is that they get auto wounds on 6s to hit because of Lethal Hits. How is he getting all of those rerolls?
Maybe Jay misspoke? Or his friend made a mistake?
Benefit of the doubt out of the way, I don't believe his friend has been playing fair, at all, and that might include getting rules like this completely wrong. Maybe some/all intentionally. Wonder if he's been doing reroll ones and lethal hits together. I don't wanna be that guy and accuse someone of cheating without evidence but Jay's too nice. Very least they should be coaching Jay on how to beat their army, or taking less skew to be more fun.
Yeah I haven't been playing munch against Guard This edition, but hits on 2's rerolls 1 feels like way over tuned and I can't imagine that's the rules for guard when they are at 45% win rate.
@@SamFisk It could just be a mistake of thinking lethal hits means rerolling 1s. There are a couple different weapons keywords in Kill Team that do things like that, which they also play.
I'm not trying to accuse Sean of cheating, just curious how it's happening. I just started playing Guard and if there is something I'm missing I'd love to know so I can give it a try myself. I just havent seen anything for armywide rerolls.
scout sentinels give rerolls of 1 against a unit it can see. If he has 3 units of them that means he can reroll 1's against 3 units.
@@notaninquisitor7274 yeah could be confused about standing still and targeted by the sentinels.
Haha finally a win! Go jay! Now let’s see your Templar kick some butt.
The only way to fix tyrant guard is to fix the whole body guard mechanic being that they adopt the move characteristic of the model they’re protecting and once they’re dead u just save on the leaders save profile no dumb “well the units dead but the rest of these saves are on the dead units save characteristic” (edit: spelling)
Thats why you have to slow roll sometimes to avoid this
A 40k art book series should be by era/edition. First book is all Rogue Trader era art, second book could be like 2nd edition era, etc... That way they could come out with a new book at the end of each edition compiling art from that time period.
I actually cheered when I saw the title, big congrats on the win Jay
Now I do ask:
HOW?!
do you get through a whole Secondaries deck?
Yet another flawless patreon terrain transition. Never know when its coming, but the patreon is always lurking 🧸
Congratulations on your win!
Hey Jay, I just picked up a new chaplain model. It's a dark angels one from 2012 still on sprue. It's a nice looking 6 part model. There's a scope on his plasma pistol that for some reason just cracks me up.
Chaplain peers through the scope, right in to the blinding flash emanating from his plasma pistol's coils, "Aaaagh! My eyes! My beautiful eyes!"
@@euansmith3699the goggles, they do nothing!!
Well done Jay 👏🙌
I've always understood that the kroot generally 'evolve' when they eat their enemies and the traits are mostly gained by the next generation?
You’re absolutely right about Tyrant Guard being useless with Hive Tyrant or Swarmlord, noticed that myself too. However they do make a pretty nice bodyguard for Neurotyrant.
Keep making these videos Jay, its make my week. :)
You said you charged his banehammer so it forced him to kill the screamer killer in order to shoot at other units. He does not have to target the unit in engagement range. He can target any unit, just at a minus -1 to hit. See the diagram #1 under big guns never tire Rules Commentary document... Part A specifically.
The ‘how’ gets me every time, despite myself. Well played, sir.
Congrats on the win!
Can't wait for the scalpers to scalp that HH Art Book. GW just GWing.
Noise Marines Kill team, or vehicle kill team yet?
Im still disappointed that the First Founding coffee table book limited. I understand the special editions being limited but if they cant make enough, i wish these books were MTO
Um you don’t have to fall back you can shoot out of combat but with a minus 1 to hit but that’s only with monsters and vehicles
How's Sean doing though is he OK?
I would focus more on the primary mission objective and secondary mission objectives. In 10th an army that isn't as "good" as the other can easily win if they are smart with the secondaries and primary. Also Gambit cards...
Check out the Claws of Karanak for your "mid-dog" transformation guy.
Hope you were able to get one, Jay. "Only" $65, but it was gone before I could buy it.
$65 for a nice hardbound art book isn't *that* bad.
Well now what..the mountain has been climbed..whats left!
10/10 how this week. 🎉
I once joked and said I would unsubscribe when you finally win a game..
the day has come goodbye old friend.
I want one model you have back in plastic is chaplain on jet bike. We need a plastic model
Let’s goooooo this what I’ve been waiting for!
One of my favorite art books is from the first Cars movie.
Funny... i know your suffering. Me and my buddy have been in an armsrace since 9th tyranid codex came out. He threw out more and more infatry and replaced it with Big Bugs and i started to go towards a Parking Lot Chaos Space Marines list. Now he has only Big Bugs and i pretty much only have Tanks and a few scoring units so we can finally play even games but when we play someone else they just get completely destroyed.
40k Really needs to deemphasize first turn. The die roll is so important for that. And instead of doing something smart like making fire phased or simultaneous, they just advise, 'fill up the map with more terrain, lol!'
While I agree that how turn sequencing works now does not make for very fun experiences sometimes, I don't think there are many good solutions to this. Someone will always get to shoot first, which has an inherent advantage. The GW terrain layouts do usually ensure that both players should have ample opportunity to consider a defensive deployment where you have to choose which of your pivotal units you may want to hide for at the very least the opponent's first turn, and which simply don't have space to hide in efficiently.
Making more use of reserves could remedy this as well. Having a big tank roll in from a flank on turn 2 and miss the first turn of shooting isn't a disaster, and often even has many benefits, assuring lines of fire your opponent could not have covered if you had put it on the table turn 1.
The one thing I personally wish they'd do, is make indirect fire stuff a lot cheaper, but MUCH less efficient. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have a rule where artillery needs to "range" its guns for a turn before being able to shoot. Similarly to how turn 1 flyers would be horrendously unfun, I feel the biggest culprit of "turn 1 feelsbad" moments is by far indirect fire, cause there just is no possible defense against it. Flyers can only come in turn 2, so why would indirect get a possibly crippling free shot in on turn 1?
I feel 40k has too many "moving parts" on the table to do anything like sequential actions. It works for smaller scale games like Killteam or Warcry, where the amount of "things" both players can field are at least vaguely similar. It's not uncommon for one player to choose to bring all of the biggest, shootiest, hittiest things and have 8 units in total, and the opponent choosing an MSU approach that can field upward of 16-20. I don't think you can sequence that in a similar way Killteam and Warcry do.
@@maxmagnus377 Legions Imperialis, Epic Space Marine, Squad Leader, Bolt Action all handled this really well with shared turns, alternating activations. The die roll was still moderately important since whomever got to go first got the first shot off in essence, but it was minimized and it also made it so you would still have a good game even in terrain where it wasn't completely filled up with LOS breaks. This was helped with order tokens that you only revealed after you gave orders to every unit. It created a much better feeling of a battle flow, in 40k you are passive about 45% of the time. But having the quick back and forth of alternating activations kept you fully focused.
@@QisforQadim I wonder how those systems handle asymmetry in possible activations then? Cause "fair" would be if everything got an activation in a round, so what happens when one side has 5 more things to activate?
@@maxmagnus377 It's different between each. Some have it so a person activates 1, then another activates 2. Another loads them all up at the end. Though also if one has fewer total detachments then they get an inherent bonus to initiative so the smaller force gets the more valued first activation, while the larger gets the wrap up.
I bet Jay could beat Shon in a cage fight
Honestly if GameWorkshop want to sell limited run Artwork boof and want to be taken seriously, both as a collector item and as an art book, they should AT THE VERY LEAST publish it in a lay-flat binding. The fact that their over priced art book are binded normally is a fucking joke.
It feels like every release lately is limited editions.
Congratulations!
Usually the art books are only like $60-$80 max. I think visions of heresy was $65 or something
I've been waiting for this moment for months
You met James (Spacemarine) Workshop??!?
Aight lads we gotta celebrate this win, let's put our pennies together and get Jay that HH artbook.
Congratulations🎉
Why limited edition and costs more? They same reason for "Spaceballs 2: The Quest for More Money"
Warhammer 40,000? Completed it mate.
Congrats :)
he's over 40,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He got his detachment wrong you get lethal hits when you stay still
Now I've noticed, they look like graboids from tremors
Congrats.🎉🎉🎉
yeah you finally did it! congrats!
Tau aren’t slow at all, unless you’re bringing massed fire warriors. Fully expecting the hounds to rival suits in their speed
We know the Kroot Hounds' mouvement stat is 12" already
We know they can go up to 30" with advance and charge
Advance adds up to 6" and charge up to 12", so that leaves a normal move of 12"
Should do videos on printing and building the terrien from patreon
A were-kroot, so a Kroot that got bitten by a Kroot-hound? That's just a Kroot-kroot, or the missing link Kroot.
I wouldn't mind an actual were-kroot (a human cursed to turn into a Kroot!).
52$ for the art of horus heresy. Im intrested but I dont know if I NEED it
Congrats! Here's your golden throne.
Hachette partworks has the 40K artbook😊
I am become Warhammer, bringer of Victories
Congrats!
you did it
They're playing on FOMO like crazy the last couple years I think this new art book plays into that.
The matrix has been broken, reality is falling apart
God-Emperor using the same joke here and in the Discord?
@@FYAjibber000 Shhhhh
😄😄😄 A good joke is worth repeating. @@AriSolMorningstar
Just so you know, vehicles and monsters can shoot out of combat at a -1 to hit
I'd love to see you interact a little more with that 'live studio audience' please!?
I hope someone sends you that book...
You should film your games for us to watch.
If it's limited you're fairly sure to sell out, if not people might buy it "whenever"...
Death guard!!
CONGRATS 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Horus Heresy would be proud of you
Wait, guard, get lethal hits when standing still, not reroll 1's.
Now this is gotta hear
What is he getting reroll 1s from? Also Basilisk shouldnt be able to get to 2+ while indirect
Woohoo! Never thought I’d see the day! Time to retire from 40k
Congrats.
Our boy finally just beat shawn, with a metal pipe.
I heard it was a metal Chaos 'dread in a sock.
“How would you beat him?”
“With a stick, while he slept.”
Games workshop is pronounced James workshops
I’m pretty sure grammatical it’s ”I won good” . Congratulations on the win!! I have yet to win also!! I always lose to my wife 😢. Thanks gents!! Fantastic as always!!!
Press X to "Shaun"
If a game is often won by who goes first, it’s not a good game
The fact that 1st turn advantage matters so much is exactly why 40k just isn’t a very good game. It’s is popular, and it can be fun, but it’s not a good game.
The reason GW produces 6,500 copies of a particular item is simple; it's their brand strategy. They feed on FOMO, and "keeping the brand premium", etc. They've acknowledged this directly for the past 10-15 years at minimum. It's the same reason they "don't do sales", etc. They are very careful to manipulate the market and their audience/consumer base. GW has the production capacity to make...any number of any product. The limited edition books, etc. are a deliberate choice to manipulate their consumers.
Just one of the many reasons I don't partake in GW products anymore. I'm not saying it's wrong or evil, but it's simply a marketing/sales strategy. One I choose not to support.
And he lived happily ever after....
Hazar!
Woke up to victory and i had to tell my wife