(Reposting as separate comment so everyone can read this) Avoiding tilting the pelvis forward and arching the back is the exact OPPOSITE of what is natural for our spine. It is also not very powerful because you can't properly engage the glutes, you also will suffer less efficient breathing because your torso is effectively being folded in half. Furthermore, the arched spine position places a lot of strain on the neck to simply look down the road (leave alone getting in an aero position), plus it will lead to back pain, shortening of the hamstrings and other issues in the long term. Steve Hogg and a lot of other bike fitters talk about the importance of having a near neutral spine while cycling (i.e. bending from the pelvis rather than the lower back). This requires rotating the pelvis forward, which in turn, requires a saddle with a cutout. Even when sitting with pelvis directly above the saddle, one can still benefit from a cutout. With the success of such racing saddles as the Selle Italia SLR Superflow and Selle SMP Carbon/Composit/Forma etc. it is clear that there are no real meaningful downsides that I can see to running saddles with cutouts. Sitting with your pelvis directly vertical and then bending from the lower back is the lazy, inefficient and old fashioned way of riding a bicycle. Unfortunately, this is not an issue that seems to be on the radar for the majority of bike riders, including the Professionals. It is also interesting to see that now the UCI have relaxed their rules on saddle angles, several riders in the Pro Peleton have began riding a saddle with the nose tilted down, in order to mimic the benefits of a saddle with a cutout. If they were to run a saddle with full length cutout, this would NOT be necessary and they could benefit from a saddle that will not cause them to slide forward, wasting energy subconsciously supporting the extra weight on their upper body. Please consider what I'm saying, it made a huge difference to my comfort and speed on the bike.
I followed this advice on the Fizik website and bought an Aliante. My rides can last 10 hours. The pain from this saddle used to kick in after 3 and a half hours. When I put the bike on the Wahoo kicker, the pain comes after an hour and a half. I have to stop and get off the bike, not because of my legs, but because of the discomfort of the saddle.
Why would you not tilt your pelvis even if you are "flexible" enough not to do so? Everywhere I look every bike fitter says a not tilted pelvis is an incorrect posture, because of glut and hamstring recruition. This is a serious question I really don't get this.
I had the same thought. As Jake mentions, proper form isn't always proper for every person. I still think this is a shortcoming of the Fizik fitting system; I am a chameleon in flexibility but sit really forward on my sit bones like a bull profile suggests. I'm not sure which is better for me so I'm going to visit some bike stores for input.
Before watching this i wanted arione cuz it look cool but after watching this im so happy cuz im a snake cuz im flexible and i have a larger wing span compared to my height.
If you are sitting on your junk, you're doing it wrong. When you've got the right size saddle and your sit bones are in contact with the saddle, having that channel is pretty much irrelevant. One needs to tilt the pelvis and arch the back, thereby lifting the soft tissues and relieving pressure.
I'm sorry, but tilting the pelvis to arch the back is the exact OPPOSITE of what is natural for our spine. It is also not very powerful because you can't properly engage the glutes, you also will suffer less efficient breathing because your torso is effectively being folded in half. Furthermore, the arched spine position places a lot of strain on the neck to simply look down the road (leave alone getting in an aero position), plus it will lead to back pain, shortening of the hamstrings and other issues in the long term. Steve Hogg and a lot of other bike fitters talk about the importance of having a near neutral spine while cycling (i.e. bending from the pelvis rather than the lower back). This requires rotating the pelvis forward, which in turn, requires a saddle with a cutout. Even when sitting with pelvis directly above the saddle, one can still benefit from a cutout. With the success of such racing saddles as the Selle Italia SLR Superflow and Selle SMP Carbon/Composit/Forma etc. it is clear that there are no real meaningful downsides that I can see to running saddles with cutouts. Sitting with your pelvis directly vertical and then bending from the lower back is the lazy, inefficient and old fashioned way of riding a bicycle. Unfortunately, this is not an issue that seems to be on the radar for the majority of bike riders, including the Professionals. Please consider what I'm saying, it made a huge difference to my comfort and speed on the bike.
(Reposting as separate comment so everyone can read this)
Avoiding tilting the pelvis forward and arching the back is the exact OPPOSITE of what is natural for our spine. It is also not very powerful because you can't properly engage the glutes, you also will suffer less efficient breathing because your torso is effectively being folded in half. Furthermore, the arched spine position places a lot of strain on the neck to simply look down the road (leave alone getting in an aero position), plus it will lead to back pain, shortening of the hamstrings and other issues in the long term.
Steve Hogg and a lot of other bike fitters talk about the importance of having a near neutral spine while cycling (i.e. bending from the pelvis rather than the lower back). This requires rotating the pelvis forward, which in turn, requires a saddle with a cutout. Even when sitting with pelvis directly above the saddle, one can still benefit from a cutout. With the success of such racing saddles as the Selle Italia SLR Superflow and Selle SMP Carbon/Composit/Forma etc. it is clear that there are no real meaningful downsides that I can see to running saddles with cutouts.
Sitting with your pelvis directly vertical and then bending from the lower back is the lazy, inefficient and old fashioned way of riding a bicycle. Unfortunately, this is not an issue that seems to be on the radar for the majority of bike riders, including the Professionals. It is also interesting to see that now the UCI have relaxed their rules on saddle angles, several riders in the Pro Peleton have began riding a saddle with the nose tilted down, in order to mimic the benefits of a saddle with a cutout. If they were to run a saddle with full length cutout, this would NOT be necessary and they could benefit from a saddle that will not cause them to slide forward, wasting energy subconsciously supporting the extra weight on their upper body. Please consider what I'm saying, it made a huge difference to my comfort and speed on the bike.
Check out some pics of Lance Armstrong. He is a super snake (no pun intended). Maybe its bad posture, but it seemed to work for him.
So what do you think people should take away from your comment to summarize?
So are you saying everyone should ride the aliante? As this should allow you to roll your pelvis forward?
I followed this advice on the Fizik website and bought an Aliante. My rides can last 10 hours. The pain from this saddle used to kick in after 3 and a half hours. When I put the bike on the Wahoo kicker, the pain comes after an hour and a half. I have to stop and get off the bike, not because of my legs, but because of the discomfort of the saddle.
Which one did you buy?
I am definitely not a snake, more kind of a bull ;-) - but the Arione is the best saddle I have ever ridden (came standard with my Canyon Aeroad)
Astrology horoscopes simplified. Fantastic!
Think the video should be titled that!
What an impeccable video
Thanks Joey
snake but have slipped disc.
Guess I'm a broken snake?
Why would you not tilt your pelvis even if you are "flexible" enough not to do so? Everywhere I look every bike fitter says a not tilted pelvis is an incorrect posture, because of glut and hamstring recruition. This is a serious question I really don't get this.
Check out some pics of Lance Armstrong. He is a super snake (no pun intended). Maybe its bad posture, but it seemed to work for him.
I had the same thought. As Jake mentions, proper form isn't always proper for every person. I still think this is a shortcoming of the Fizik fitting system; I am a chameleon in flexibility but sit really forward on my sit bones like a bull profile suggests. I'm not sure which is better for me so I'm going to visit some bike stores for input.
According to this video I need an Aliante, but what about R1 R2 or R3?
Fizik Aliante Vs saddle oh boy i wish i found this saddle many years earlier
Arione VS saddle I have on both my bikes ,both bought from wiggle
Way better than the stupid app that doesn't work
Before watching this i wanted arione cuz it look cool but after watching this im so happy cuz im a snake cuz im flexible and i have a larger wing span compared to my height.
Glad we could help Enzo!
Does it still matter if i would just sit on it? I'm riding a fixie with a riser bar.
It does also depend on how aggressive stance of your riding position 👍
Will I be uncomfortable when I am a snake and I am going to use Antares?
You shouldn't be... the best comfort depends on the saddle position and how you position yourself on the bike too 👍
Can you advise which saddle type is used by this gentleman?
tns for the video!
Artem Unknown g
Ppho
I can touch my toes plus rotate my pelvis
Snake! not a horrible on...just a flexible one
Being a man I cannot grasp the concept of not having a relief channel - I'm sure ED is not fun
If you are sitting on your junk, you're doing it wrong. When you've got the right size saddle and your sit bones are in contact with the saddle, having that channel is pretty much irrelevant. One needs to tilt the pelvis and arch the back, thereby lifting the soft tissues and relieving pressure.
I'm sorry, but tilting the pelvis to arch the back is the exact OPPOSITE of what is natural for our spine. It is also not very powerful because you can't properly engage the glutes, you also will suffer less efficient breathing because your torso is effectively being folded in half. Furthermore, the arched spine position places a lot of strain on the neck to simply look down the road (leave alone getting in an aero position), plus it will lead to back pain, shortening of the hamstrings and other issues in the long term.
Steve Hogg and a lot of other bike fitters talk about the importance of having a near neutral spine while cycling (i.e. bending from the pelvis rather than the lower back). This requires rotating the pelvis forward, which in turn, requires a saddle with a cutout. Even when sitting with pelvis directly above the saddle, one can still benefit from a cutout. With the success of such racing saddles as the Selle Italia SLR Superflow and Selle SMP Carbon/Composit/Forma etc. it is clear that there are no real meaningful downsides that I can see to running saddles with cutouts.
Sitting with your pelvis directly vertical and then bending from the lower back is the lazy, inefficient and old fashioned way of riding a bicycle. Unfortunately, this is not an issue that seems to be on the radar for the majority of bike riders, including the Professionals. Please consider what I'm saying, it made a huge difference to my comfort and speed on the bike.
Bs because I have the arione and I'm a bull and it's the most comfy
agreed
I'm a bull :(
The full on Lycra, the shaven head, the beard, the shades...... and the gut. Not the best advert for sales.
What a load of marketing bullshit