Accurately Set Your Saddle Height with the 109% Method
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มี.ค. 2019
- No method for finding saddle height is perfect. There are many variables involved in bike fit. But I've found this saddle height method to be the most accurate.
After setting your saddle height with this method, you still may adjust it up or down slightly to what feels best. Remember, if you're getting knee pain on the back or side of the knee, your saddle may be too high. If you're getting pain on the front of the knee, your saddle may be too low.
Here's a link to the very quick heel method that I mentioned in the video:
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Great, now I have to buy a book
Underrated comment
I'll bring the book if you bring the pencil lol 😂
This is exactly what your local Public Library is there for!
@@Bicycles-ot9wl 😂
Great now I have to buy a book and a pencil
Interesting. I've paid for 3 bike fits. One an ex pro, a 'certified' Retul fitter and a physical therapist. All had my saddle height higher than what I thought was comfortable. Over the years I've experimented by feel and settled on a measurement, like yours from the pedal face, and your 109% comes within 1 millimetre. If you had this video a few years ago I could have saved heaps and given you commission.
Thank you Clint. I like your simple no nonsense approach to cycling.
Paid for a bike fit.... what does that even mean
A monetary exchange for a service.
saddle aft, foot placement with shoe on, cleat placement on shoes, stem height, stem rise, bar width, so much more goes into fitting than just saddle height. some saddle have more give plus when you apply load to the pedals when seated angles change due to the rider sliding back into the wedge of the seat...that is why you need fitting. interesting to see power output one vs other.
@@Dude-Smellmyhelmet it's a new scam people do. Whenever people get knee pain the absolute first thing people say is, well a bike should not hurt the knees, if it does it's a bike fit problem as it simply should not hurt.
They say this in order to attract customers to pay for a bike fit and the customer hopes this will solve all of their problems.
When people get knee pain from cycling what these people forget to mention is the 100 other variables that can cause knee pain.
What they also forgot to mention is it is actually far more likely that these 100 other variables are the cause for knee pain.
One particular variable is overtraining. It doesn't matter how perfectly you think your bike is set up, if you have never cycled before and go out 30 miles a day everyday in massive gears up huge hills, grinding away ...it's going to hurt.
I personally think the bike fitting industry is an absolute scandal. Regarding saddle height ballpark is good enough
@@ToThePointCT No I was being kinda sarcastic. I know what bike fit is, and yes a bike should be the right size. You don't wanna be reaching way forward on a huge bike if you're 5'3". But paying someone to tell you which bike is your size and how high the seat should be is def silly. It's like paying the kid at McDonald's to tell you which size fries go w my shake
Thanks Clint. As always your information is thorough without being repetitive and monotonous. When wanting too fine tune one of my rides i look forward to learning form you. Happy holidays.
Awesome video! I have been pondering 🤔 over this issue for a while now, but you have made it much easier to fix. I have two different bikes with different crank lengths. I been using the other formula to figure it out, but it was not putting me in my optimum position on my TT bike with longer crank arms. However, your 109 formula put right where I needed to be. Thanks for the insight!
Shout out to your son. His cameo made the video!
Great!!! I always used the "slight bent knee at extension" and pain pain pain, numb numb numb!!! I couldn't figure it out. Then I heard about lowering to the point where the hips stop rocking, well, it got better but always have to eyeball it. But this 109% is just great! Thank you!
Info that saved me a lot of money! I always thought it was more complicated than this; But, I have a history of making things more difficult than they should be! Thanks. Love the Niner! I’ve owned a Rip9 & Jet9 Carbon...
Per Usual, your stuff is very informative.. Have used many a vids to help with all kinds of stuff.. 🤘👍 Thanx Clint!
I rarely comment on videos but this was an amazing help. I’ve been fighting with seat height for a while now. So much I was ready to pay for a professional bike fit I’ve been so annoyed with getting my seat right. This worked perfectly the first try. The seat and ride has never felt better. Thank you!
That was awesome, I have been riding for 30yrs. And never have I seen or heard of this. I always went with slight bend in the knee at the bottom stroke of the pedal. Never wanted to pay for a professional fitting. Thanks for such a great job and all the great content🤙🏽👍🏽🤘🏽. Live-Life-Loud
I was thinking exactly what you said! I enjoyed the video, but found it VERY confusing!
(I've been watching a LOT of European Pro racing videos lately, and most of the seat heights *look* *too* *low*, based on the method we use.... Their legs look *too* bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Could be they are pointing down toes, heels raised, so it *looks* like their seat is too low, but really isn't. I'm VERY comfortable with my seat height, after 50+ years riding, and can feel a 1/8 - 1/4 inch change easily within a few hundred yards of riding!.... The point of the way WE learned was not to over-stretch muscles on back of leg.... Also we learned sit on seat, put *heel* on pedal, straighten leg, fine tune seat height from their.... Bicycle shops used to have a "Fit Kit" device, I remember....
@@silentumexcubitor6747 From what I've seen (and you are right), European Pro racing seat height is based on mashing pedals and power meters. So the meter says you produce more power at X height and that is where you set it. Then go mash gears until you get strong enough to ride with everyone. The 109 method allows for ankling, spinning and full stretch as you have used. IMHO, better and yes, the "pros" look uncomfortable. Have fun!
I never understood how to adjust the seat and always had problems with the ride. 109 method worked and now the bike is so much easier to ride. Thanks Clint, now I know what to do when my new bike comes in.
Very clear explanation!! Thanks and pass kudos to your son! He had the most significant role in the video!
Thank you my MAN! After three years of various knee and pelvis pain a sat down today on my bike and it felt proper. I had my saddle set 10 cm higher than it should be and every cyclist in my area told me it's okay I should just tweak it couple of cm. Thanks again. My knees are straight and I don't hit the top tube anymore upper body feels relaxed and pedal stroke is smooth.. SMOOTH AS HELL. Recommended to everyone
That's awesome! Ride on.
In the early 2000's I went through a fit system by wobble-naught - approach, and the results are pretty much similar to your results. Although the size of a shoe, its thickness, and the pedal system are taken into account with wobble-naught. This is a great video and a huge help for people who don't have access to a professional or personalized fit!
Very clear method, thanks. As it turns out was bang on so made me feel better having had the same height for years!
Thank you. Just got a new saddle and set this up perfectly. Great method - very accurate.
I've been constantly rising my saddle height over the last year to find my optimal pedaling position.
I think i've got it right in the last few weeks (casual rider). Now i've seen your video and it's spot on 109%!
Thank you! Kind regards from Romania!
👍
Before marking your wall with a marking device.
Run a piece of blue masking tape up the wall for the area that is going to receive the mark.
when done remove the tape.
Bob Sieburg
IDIOT R U F ING KIDDING
Great vid Clint and really helpful! Just realised my dropper was too high and have saved the measurement to my phone so I won't forget it! Great job!
I’m new to cycling, and have been tweaking saddle height with .883 and other methods on my new canyon grail several times and still can’t get it right .... saw your video & your method nails it! Thank you
Today i did the 109 method and reduced my normal lap time by 4:37 on a 20km cross country ride. Thanx dude. Awesome Cameo btw.
Simple, explained neatly. Perfect.
Going to try this immediately.
Great method, wasn't aware of it and thanks a lot for sharing it with us Clint. As for the mark on the wall, must admit it's easier when you have an assistant...! 😉👍😎
I had not adjusted the saddle on my bike since perhaps 1975-ish. I set it by another method then but I was advised to set it another way last year. I had not used the bike for many decades and it is a very lite to peddle bike and has always felt as if it helps me along.
The method recommended last year to me probably gave the same result. - Adjust the saddle with one foot on the ground and the other seated and at almost maximum stretch the ball of my big toe pushing the peddle set the saddle so that at maximum length my leg is almost straight.
This has given me some more power and made cycling even easier. I start off by slightly jumping to launch myself off, as was explained to me.
thanks for the video clint! very helpful
Wow, I've done few seat height adjustments by what I felt was best over the last few years of riding. After watching this video, I just checked it's height against what this formula calculates and it is dead-on. Nice!
I finally get it - this was the best explaination so far - thanks - been wondering for so long.
Thank you. Really nice to find a method that takes crank length into the equation. !!!
I started riding 64 years ago on a Raleigh 3 speed. I was told to adjust your saddle height to the notch right below your hipbone. Which I've done since. Using the 1.09 method I find I'm .5 CM low.
J L which one is best for you? The hip or the 109% rule?
@@laureeeent ; I'm not suer. I have one leg that is 1/2" longer than the other so that complicates things but I'm using the shorter height for that reason
I think this is a great place to start! For me, this method yielded a result that was too high as my whole pelvis would shift on either side on the downstrokes, but from there I just started lowering the saddle height by 5mm and after a couple of tests the height was perfect.
It's also 4-5 centimeters too high for me, the 0.883 method is more appropriate in my case.
In fact I don't see how the pedal length could be 20% of the inseam (109 - 88.3 = 20.7%)!
Thanks Clint, I’ve just been and drawn on my wall and fixed all my bikes . Life changing video thanks
Thanks Clint, I had done myself out of an inch and you know how important that extra inch is to a man! Now my seat is set for the max power and best stride :). Oh and using a stick tip from Roger was useful
lol "get back in there son, we aren't ready for you"
Great vid! 👍
Love your useful assistant. 🤣
Needs a credit!
Great video. Many riders I see on the bike paths have their seats very low which makes them unstable and prone to sore legs and knees. When appropriate I recommend this video to them with the following proviso; “If you are uncomfortable at 109% start at 102% and ride for a while, then move to 105%, then 109% when you can”.
Also, I ride on flat pedals on my MTB and path bikes so I measure the inseam with my shoes on because they have fairly thick soles. I find the 109% rule still works fine.
This was a very interesting video. I had no idea there was so many ways to adjust saddle height.
Credits to the assistant ahahja best part of the video
In case we didn't know what a pencil looks like
@@DavidJKM Thank you!
Another victory for the metric system! 😀 Thanks for the video Clint.
Oh pleeeease USA.. catch up with the rest of the world and go metric! It's so easy!
100% agree
LongStraightLines don’t hold your breath.
@@LongStraightLines Absolutely agree. Only the USA, Myanmar and Liberia haven't gone metric.
@@LongStraightLines Why does it matter? It's easy to convert from one unit to the other and back. There are no laws telling Americans not to use metric....
Can't wait to give this a shot and give feedback. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for this video ! Helped me properly adjust my saddle height.
I find it useful to be open about moving the height often. Sometimes changing it a quarter inch or so allows relief in some muscles. Plus there are variables, like saddle softness, shoes, and possibly small changes in your body. As you work out, muscles swell, etc, etc.
Holy cow! just measured my road and gravel bikes and ive naturally set them up to this height, fantastic advice and good to know the simple formula
Mine was same down to the mm 😄👍
Quick, easy and accurate. Very good video.
Wow, this is great tip. Don't know if it's scientific or clinical but I will buy it. Thanks, Clint. Happy biking.
When you are 5, your father says: "Do not draw on the wall!"
You come 15 and he goes: "Take the pencil and mark my crotch level on the wall!" :-D
😂😂
😂🤣👍🏽
Yup 😂😂
lol Thats a good one.
E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.
LOL!
Wait till mom comes home!
Just got my new Canyon Ultimate in and installed the seat at a level that “looked” right. After doing the 109% method I realized that I NAILED the height just by eyeing it. I’ll probably never do that again lol
I've come to the conclusion after riding for a long time I can almost get the height right on. Demoing a lot of bikes probably helped
( ) x 0,883 is beter ...
Omega Tours with this you ll receive another résult what do you exactly mean ?
this method is from 1967 when other types of sprinters were driven and berths were used as well as different seats and nowadays different systems are used so the 109% or x 1.09 model is not applicable nowadays I personally tested it on my BMC bicycle (in my opinion, the most reliable would be the coefficient () x 0.89 greetings from SRB
Omega Tours but with your you receive and result smaller and with the other One receive you One bigger result i mean with your méthode you are too low One your position
You are the one stop shop for bike info!
I follow everything that is over 100%. Thank you! Now I'll get the problem of transferring this to my recumbent trike. Maybe you'll create a video where you calculate the optimal angle between the sitting position and the drive wheel?
Thanks for no ads. I'll give it a try.
Got an ad at the end, watched it. If you want quality stuff like this ya gotta support somehow!
This came up on my recommended , I was only THINKING about this earlier .
In that case Yt can read your mind bro hahahaha lol
Thanks Clint , I will try this.
Most helpful information. Thanks
It really depends on shoes type. When riding with clip shoes, seat feels lower while on normal shoes seat is too high
Exactly!!! I tried sitting on the bike at the shop wearing jeans and sneakers and it was impossible to know. I told the owner I had to return home and get my cycling shoes because wearing sneakers was impossible to know. He cut down the saddle post to lower the saddle and fortunately we stopped there. When I returned with my cycling shoes the saddle actually felt a tiny bit too low but he can raise it. This video is a great find and I will see what I come up with. UPDATE: My new saddle is 87.2 from pedal to top of saddle, spot on accurate using this method to the tenth digit but it felt slightly low. I compared that to my old bike that was 89 so that is why the new saddle felt a bit low. I had been riding for years with my saddle almost 2 cm too high.
A very good method to check if ur Position is correct is to check the pain in ur legs. If u have some spots with pain and others without u need to correct it until u feel all ur muscles back,front leg, arse.
This worked awesome. Thank you a million.
Great video I’m going to try this
2:12 when the monster under your bed think your sleep but you’re actually awake
Hi Clint - thanks for this. I adjusted the saddle height earlier today as soon as I finished watching the video. Long story short, the saddle was set at a hair higher than 96cm (my inseam is 86cm!) -- needless to say, too high (the original LBS where I bought the bike a couple of years ago fitted me for the frame and I hadn't touched it until this morning).
I lowered the saddle to 94cm (86 x 1.09 = 93.74cm) and I can't believe the difference! The comfort is through the roof! No more numb "undercarriage" or hands - or foot/feet for that matter! How is this possible?!
Anyway, I thought the fit was OK because my hips never rocked and I never struggled to transfer power to the pedals although I couldn't understand why I was experiencing such discomfort all the time. And all it took was lowering the saddle by 2 bloody centimetres!
THANK YOU!
Thanks for the feedback. Ride on!
I always wondered why some people had their seat high and some low. Found this information useful. Will use this method to adjust my seat height.
Another great explanation😀
A nice easy to understand way to get you somewhere like.
The thing with people is we are not static or rigid and here we are trying make our saddle height ‘fixed’ using mathematics.
Inseam ( 109% ) or Lemond Method (0.8) or Knee Over Pedal Spindle (KOPS) are all good ways to get you in the good enough area of saddle height.
Here’s a curve ball…
Suppose you have a comfort saddle that compresses when you sit on it?
How much saddle height do you lose?
Do your cycle shorts have padding?
Does that padding compress over the length of a ride?
A lot of people adjusting saddle height to mm perfection.
There’s no need.
The first video with the heel on the pedal is good enough.
A quick method I use when renting bikes is to just set the height to perfect when my leg is straight with my heel on the pedal all the way out. fine tune from there
you should Bend your knee just a tiny bit, because if it's totally straight it will make to move your body side to side while on the track
I thought “mark” was my que....it isn’t...oh, it is.. 😂
Mine was exactly right using this method. Surprised me. Thanks for this.
Thanks man I was wondering the same thing, you solved it👍
As it is often said, in comedy and instructional videos timing is everything :-)
I think this is the best way to set your own saddle height ever :)) But i think i can make it better though. After you take the 109% result, you should minus the length of the crank. That will eliminate the chance of you getting your crank at the wrong angle, which also make it easier to measure the seat height. Good video as usual (y)
Solid.
Good call...
Hmm. Wouldn't you need to make some other adjustment to then get the right height?
I agree, but, according to this video, which btw, does not apply the 109% correctly, you measure from "top of pedal" whatever that means...the correct method is to measure from the center of pedal spindle
Excellent info...most appreciated brother
I've been using this method to set saddle for some years on mine and customers bikes. I've found it to be the most accurate and reliable method. It does often need a fine adjustment but is a very good starting point. As you say it takes into account crank length.
How do you further fine tune?
Clint, I found it interesting how much it varied from setting the seat height with the heel method. I had just reset my seat height that way and then tried the 109% method, and it was 21mm or 7/8" lower at 109%. I didn't expect the two approaches to vary that much. Which one do you prefer? So my seat was definitely too high. I should have checked it when I bought a new pair of 5 10's a year and a half ago, they were a lower profile shoe than I was wearing.
This is the ultimate method and one I recommend if you get that much variance. th-cam.com/video/lZ1_4HmUXRY/w-d-xo.html
So I use the heel method with a bit of fine tuning and that's good enough for me.
Anyone tried the 110% method?
Sounds like a great idea. Going to try it out and let you know. Thanks for the tip
Thank you! I have been having so much trouble trying to do much more complicated techniques, but this was simple, and I hope it will be effective.
Add instructions and logic on setting seat angle up, down, level please?
Every seat is made to be different angle, but in general they should all be flat. Check out Bike Fit Advisor on youtube. He has some good videos on setting seat angle for road bikes which also translates to mountain bikes. Really for me I set them flat and then ride and make slight adjustments until I'm comfortable. Tilting nose down will cause you to slide forward and put too much pressure on your hands, making your hands numb. Tilting nose high will cut circulation off to your perineum.
I am been cycling since the 1980's and went in for a bike fit. I am so glad that I went and it was an interesting experience. The fit wasn't based on any rigid formula even though the bike fitter did say that Lemond's formula (inseam x .883 = saddle height) was only a starting point. I have one leg shorter than the other which he says is common since most humans are not evenly proportional. His challenge was to get my seat height at where I was cycling efficiently with both legs. After an hour and a half and a dozen seat changes and using both a Goniometer, plumb bob, and putting on a wide flat saddle to stabilize my hips because for a man I have wide sit bones. He got me where he was happy with my pedaling, he finally got to where adjustments was within a milimeter, extremely thorough man and meticulous. Taking out my bike for a ride was a whole new experience, efficiency on my bike was off the charts and my hand numbness was gone. The guy was awesome, I came home feeling like I rode my bike, but not tired at all and barely broke a sweat. I was fortunate that my frame size was perfect for me, but I actually recommend that you go in and get fitted first before purchasing a bicycle.
Helpfull tips bro!
Great video Clint . I'd just like to put my take on what I've found using a selle smp saddle. Because it tilts upwards from the centre of the saddle to the back , if you have it all the way back in the rail clamp then the 109% will be too high by 10mm because your measuring through the seat tube and clamp area but your sitting further back on the saddle not where you measure , hope this makes sense . On a flat type saddle the 109% is almost always accurate.
I'm pretty confident in my guestimated saddle height so I did the measurement and then measured the height of my saddle and it was within just about 1.1 cm of what the rule would suggest. I'll chalk it up to a win for team close enough.
Lol. That's eleven milimeters off. If that is accurate, then how the hell did you guy's got to the moon?
Oh! You used germans. Ok. That explains it. ;)
Cut a stick of the appropriate length and use this to adjust saddle height, easier than a bendy tape measure.
That's clever. I gotta do that.
get a decent tape measure and it works great
This is good. I would add that whenever you change your saddle height if you have to change it more than a few millimeters, especially if you are raising the saddle, you should do it slowly over the course of several days. Allow your muscles to adapt to the new position. This is particularly necessary if you are making a large change in saddle height.
It is very good method, that helps set up very good starting point. From this point heigh might change only by milimiters. There is also fore/aft sadle possition that can affect height, type of shoes, cleat possition, mobility, personal pedaling technic, or back pain problems. Personaly after I set up possition by this method, I prefer to do some power test, and see how I feel, if it is comfortable. Right now I am so used to my own saddle height, that I feel right away if saddle post slip, even by 2mm.
How hard am I suppose to push up when measuring? It can vary lile 3-4 cm...? Up until you barely touch the crotch or push it up like you are sitting on the bike? And isn't this measurement different depending on the shoes used?
Exactly, I definitely feel a difference when I am wearing my riding shoes or other footwear. The measurement would be more accurate if wearing your riding shoes. Now, would it still work out to 109% is the question?
Measuring the length of my crank is always fun.
XD
Do you have to use two hands?
Thank you Clint for yr simple and clear making this saddle height measurements. I'm 5.5 guy and I will use yr method on my MTB. TQ 😊
What frame size do you own?
Good simple method thanks!
Raise the seat till it hurts then down just a smidge- been working for me since the 60s
Okay, but what about handlebar height?
Thanks so much for posting this I now realise I have spent the last 30 years riding around on bikes with the seat way to low👍
I just followed your method, then checked my bikes, they are already at the measurement determined by your method so whatever method I used it worked, I now have noted my measurement
I can't believe that this is so complicated. Sit on the saddle with the crank at the bottom and your knee slightly bent and there is your height. I have done this with so many people , works every time.
Ummm, yeah.
the 0.883 was developed when Greg Lemond was using 80's style cycling shoes and pedals with toe clips. and no matter what, don't ever EVER use a cactus to measure your inseam... DO NOT DO THIS
Good tip
Oh man, I didn't read the last part and now I'm all fucked up
Thanks man. I was just reaching for my cactus to use for this.
You can't tell me what to do.
If you can't ride with cactus spikes you need a better saddle.
Thanks Clint!
Interesting and easy method. I will try it. ty
2:09 that guy in the back : oh thats awkward
Milan2124 I think it’s his son
Not awkward, but funny
I thought Clint was about to get killed. LMAO
Damn. I just did this and realized my seat was too low! Let's see how this feels on the road!
Answer: yeah, pretty good. Thanks man!
@@afptoronto1 thanks for coming back to comment and delivering on what we needed to read
I tried it and it's very hard for me to land my feet on the ground, only the front part of my feet can touch the ground. Is this normal?
@@rushbcykablyat1792 The entire soles of your feet aren't supposed to touch the ground when you're on your saddle.
@@djdelarosa25 Ah ok thanks! Just gotta get used to it I guess.
Thanks for the info really like your educational video
Thank you. That was very helpful.
You should push the book up hard so the spine of the book is firm against the perinium. Thats what a fitter told me for a diy fit.
Interesting. That actually make sense.
You're correct, in fact I use a short piece of 2" PVC pipe with a small level on top to make sure it's parallel to the floor, and pull up from the front and back. It compresses the foam like it would be on the saddle.
Glenny, Jan Bartos and John Williamson, even worse(?) we used to use a 12" vinyl LP record cover for the book and slid it up one leg to the 'sit bone'... Perineum. LOL Then measure to the floor in your riding shoes, which were not as thick as they are today. Have fun!
sure, sure if thats how you rationalize it. keep lyin to yourself
I read this without seeing the video
this might be my ignorance showing but don't you need your mtn bike saddle to be lower than your road bike saddle so you have room to absorb more impacts?
Charlton Cruz no you still want the saddle height that gives you the best peddling efficiency. A dropper post is a great option to lower the saddle when you need more room to maneuver.
@@tgoods5049 "Peddling"... Sigh...
ThatMontmorency more riding, less grammar policing
Thank you for the good tutorial
Thanks for this info... Appreciate it... 👍🏼