They look up because you're making movement noise. You started sneaking AFTER you got noticed in the bit you've shown. You sneak by changing your stance pressing Ctrl or whatever it is you've rebinded it to.
kyle ross there is no problem. Instead of visibility gem you have your lightning icon as Jack pointed out. It works really good. I've seen Rich's stream. He has no patience towards this game and should give up being a ghost and just have fun.
well jhe is the same guy that, for some reason, thinks kojima is a fucking hack because his games are pretentious, even though, mechanic wise, the metal gear solid series is one of the best game series ever made
genkispt maybe, but he is also quite loose and lighthearted about it... at times, despite how absurdly pretentious his stories are he does manage to sneak some fun in there, like fighting a flaming whale on a horse right after escaping some hospital or all the waifu stuff that he sneaks in his games or that doctor pissing his pants or snake talking about his weird box religion, and the point remains, game design wise, his games are stellar, so jack can shove his opinions on kojima up his ass
3:35 Interesting fact, Thief was initially designed to be a fantasy sword-fighting simulator, but when they found out how awful the swordfighting was in their engine, they basically changed the entire framework of the game.
Hahahaha right?? Even all these years later it cracks me up Gotta be in stealth..to be stealthy.. He stands up.. Then, 20 seconds after Jack explained it, it shows the white lightning bolt appear, and he had time to duck back, but he stood there like a dumbass until it went red That was entirely rich sucking and not the game having a bad design (This is a common theme in pre rec reviews, they talk out of their ass a lot when they're either wrong, confused or misunderstanding something. Still love them though.)
So glad you guys reviewed this! I really liked the the first Dishonored and I was one the fence about this one but now I absolutely want to play it. Keep making quality content guys
That opening mission, which is basically a training mission, is the only one where you could conceivably just sprint through everything. And being a ghost, versus being noisy and bloody, affects your "chaos" score, which affects the ending. Never really had an issue with the hidden vs. not hidden thing, but the game also doesn't take place in darkness for the most part - you're usually traversing cities during the day. You can also unlock the power that shows you the vision cones of the enemies.
Rich speed running through that one mission instead of "stealthing" was basically the equivalent of him Mega Punching his way through Pokemon. I love it. It also reminds me his Casual Horse idea. Completely unconventional and yet effective.
I resent the handholding endemic to modern action/stealth/adventure games. Remember stumbling around for an hour trying to figure out what to do and the feeling of accomplishment when you did? You could always look up a guide, but that felt like cheating. Thief, Half Life, No One Lives Forever... Those games were amazing, and although level design was necessarily simpler and more linear back then, the lack of handheld GPS organ necessitated designing around goals.
National Acrobat I understand how someone can dislike this game. Parkour, for example, was so broken. Half of my deaths in this game are me falling to the ground, cause I couldn't catch some piece of wood. But i loved it anyway. Story, soundtrack, voice-acting, gameplay - all of that was on point.
Rich, you said that one of your favorite things about metal gear solid V was that you could either go guns blazing or stealth. but you dont like it in this game?
I didn't say "I don't like it" I'm saying you're trading tension for options. I liked Dishonored 2, It's just having the choice to hide or fight isn't inherently "better" than a purely stealth focused game.
So far my favorite execution of a stealth/action hybrid has been Shadow of Mordor. It's a game that, at least for me, and at least for certain parts of the game, trying to go rambo would usually get you killed. But at the same time, perfect stealth wasn't necessary. It was more a game about adapting to the situation and exploiting the weaknesses of the enemy. And I really enjoyed it (I remember one time I spent something like 15 minutes performing guerrilla tactics against this commander and his forces after I messed up my first attempt to assassinate him)
SlySpy If it's there, I'm going to use it. No self control. Especially with anxiety. They should design the game to have checkpoints or something and make it an option to toggle save states on or off. Because f you design the game with save states in mind, turning it off could be a problem lol.
Hey that Bioshock criticism is bullshit. You CAN not pick up the plasmid, the same way you CAN not go to Rapture at the beginning or not pick up the gun. But the character ( and player ) is put in a situation where the only logical thing to do is using the plasmid or picking up the gun or going to the mysteruous city. With the plasmid is because it's the only way to open the door and hopefully finding a way out of the city.
I'm not sure if the Bioshock plasmid scene was ever intended to be a choice, rather just a way to illustrate how the protagonist is getting fantastical powers. I believe the only reason the player even has control in that scene or the lighthouse scene is the game was made in the Half Life school of thought where they wanted to have a minimum of cutscenes. So I guess I agree it's not a valid criticism because "giving the player a choice" wasn't really what Bioshock was shooting for. I will however also agree with Jack that it's friggin crazy that one would just inject themselves with an unknown glowing liquid even if someone on a radio is telling them to. Not sure of a more concise set-up but there's got to be one that makes more sense.
Agreed. Also, you're in the 60s in a run down city taken over by crazy people. Who in that scenario would be freaked out by injecting yourself with a syringe to get superpowers. Jack's complaint that that is lack of choice is nitpicky bullshit.
+TheTron08 Not sure if this qualifies as a more concise set-up, but System Shock 2 presented the player with a satisfying amount of choice in the very beginning of the game, which also made sense story wise. It boiled down to introducing 3 classes - space marine, engineer, and psyonic - and giving a quick tutorial of their respective play styles and options. Then it gave you 3 more choices: 1) going the "pure" route by sticking to a single class 2) creating a 2 classes hybrid 3) opting for a jack-of-all-trades, with the risk of gimping yourself After this prologue the story unfolds in a rather linear fashion just like in Bioshock. Yet the biggest difference between both games is that SS2 allows for more gameplay freedom through the initial commitment to a particular style, and it also fosters replayability. Whereas in Bioshock you inevitably turn into an unstoppable killing machine - with full access to all the boosted weapons and plasmids - and the only incentives to replay the game are either to see the other ending or going after achievements. Hope this was helpful and not too off-topic.
the game is still easy and stealth is still slower and more tedious that just murdering everything that moves also turning off the indicators just makes it unplayable they talk about why in the video.
I agree with everything Rich is saying except for 9:44. You got seen because you were standing up and walking. They heard your footsteps. Then looked in the direction of the noise. THEN saw you. STAY crouched and you don't emit sound.
Your character unquestioningly using the plasma in Bioshock is in keeping with the Choice theme. Jack is an automaton; "A man chooses, a slave obeys" etc. It establishes that your character is a literal slave. Though this is obviously much clearer later on, the "choices" Jack (and the player) make up until the reveal are completely at Atlas' suggestion. Aside from saving or harvesting the little sisters.
I feel like if you gave Jack a game where you can only see half the screen he would say he liked it because it's fun to guess what's on the other side.
Rich is 100% right. All stealth games, post Thief have vague stealth where even though you could be 100 feet away from an enemy they can see you even if your head just pops up from behind a crate. In Thief that would never happen, but in almost every "stealth" game since Thief it happens. I'm sure there are exceptions which I'm sure everyone will now throw at me, but that is the biggest problem with Dishonored's "stealth". That and nearly every Dishonored mission is in daytime and nearly every mission in Thief is in nighttime. Doesn't make it easy to hide at high noon. So really, you kind of have to play it Jack's way or just be insanely patient and get upset when you get caught when you "felt hidden".
I mean Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is the epitome of stealth games imo and it relies heavily on shadows hiding you, and you could stand all the way up if you were in the pitch black and never be seen. Also, that game can be played full assault but is much more difficult and risky.
Agreed, everyone makes fun of stealth games that lack realistic AI like in MGS games (especially 3) but the AI doesn't have to be realistic to be good in the same way that not every shooter has to be like ARMA to be good.
If you play Dishonored 2 without powers on very hard non-lethal/ghost it essentially becomes a very difficult thief game. Sure these limitations are self-imposed but isn't that true of difficulty settings in general? "Why would I play this game on hard mode when I can finish it faster on easy?" BECAUSE ITS MORE FUN. Sure, the temptation to go non-stealthy if you are in a difficult area is there, where as in Alien:Isolation you don't have that option but for me that's not a downside.
Bethesda Softworks published Dishonored 2, Arkane (France or Austin, Texas, can't remember) made Dishonored 2. Some people working at Arkane worked on the original Thief games.
Multiple ways to achieve objectives? Wow that does sound cool. Reminds me of this Vampire game that came out a few years ago. Of course you had to get past the tutorial to get to that stuff. Wouldn't be a problem for these guys.
Hey guys, just wanted to congratulate you on a great review. The thief comparisons were on point. I love when y'all have different opinions. Keep it up. Reviewers tend to be shit these days. We need people like you creating quality content.
Once you play through Bioshock, you realize you really had no choice to begin with, so I can forgive that glowing liquid thing in the beginning. It did seem lazy, but I can forgive it because the rest of the game more than makes up for it.
I watch the streams pretty often, but I forget that you guys do these reviews of the games. I think watching the streams is a part of getting to know the things you guys love/hate/kinda like etc..which gives more insight into your reviews.
Jack must know that the first Bioshock is all about not having a choice, while thinking you do and do things because you want to help someone, right? That's the whole plot of the game..........you are instructed to kindly inject yourself with it, so you do.
Previously Recorded you're right, but is it not heavily implied that Atlas wants you to get it? He is just like "well, you will be fine and I need you to get that" In the end the point still stance that any real choice of your own would kill the whole story of that game. Outside of killing or saving the little sisters, which is part of the story.
Previously Recorded Born and raised in Rapture for this exact reason, you never had a choice in the narrative. Your character was literally born to be a pawn.
+Saddy Martinez Actually it isn't just arguing semantics. It is important to know who developed a game that Bethesda Softworks is publishing because all the different studios make different type of games.
In Bioshock, you had little to no choice, the only freedom you had was to save or kill the little sisters. Until you get to Andrew, every decision was made for you.
To be fair Jack, (spoilers of a 9 year old game) Bioshock was about the illusion of choice. Although you as a player made certain choices, your objective and path was designed by Fontaine. He meant you to crash the plane into the sea and venture into Rapture and use plasmids and your advanced genetics to kill Andrew Ryan. Also if you try to proceed past that first room the door is jammed and Atlas tells you to look for something to open the door with.
The duel nature of the game is a strength in my opinion, you can basically play it twice (or 4 times in this game), and get 4 different experiences. If it was just a stealth game, it would be just another stealth game with nothing special about it.
The Stilton Mansion has three timelines, depending on whether or not you prevent him from attending the seance (without killing him). The present becomes less ruined, but still different from the past. Also Meagan Foster grows her arm and eye back.
Rich just has weird critical opinions sometimes.. Being able to go guns blazing doesn't make stealth less rewarding, it makes it more rewarding because you're taking the harder option.. Sure, it would have higher stakes if you couldn't survive being caught, but idk. It's better than being frustrated if you fuck up and being able to just have cool combat, Its soo minor. He definitely likes being like the "smart critical guy" even if it's not really justified.
"Dishonored 2: The Metal Age". This game really is THIEF 4 as far as I'm concerned. If only the THIEF Reboot game was half as good a stealth game as Dishonored 2 is. PS. Rich is spot-on regarding sooooo many things while debating this game.
Hey Jack would you kindly go get yourself some plasmids? I think you need to play the game,especially if you think bioshock is about choice. Bioshock is about the illusion of choice.
Just started getting into this channel from rlm. Holy fuck Jack can't review for shit. He misplaces his expectations of the game then whines when the game does meet them. Or has no idea how story effects games. You would think a company that spends all day calling out hacks he would have some self awareness
Bethesda Game Studios (developer) are different to but owned by Bethesda Softworks (publisher). The latter published this game but it was developed by Arkane Studios.
7:52 Not always, and here's why: A game should have very understandable rules and limitations. Games that promise you the ability to do whatever you want are seldom anything other than frustration or aimless. The clip from the Stream, also, does not convey a sense that this was designed this way. It looks like the game designers simply failed to take into account that a player might try to do that. You'd think some of these guards would try to shoot you or run you down. Something. There's literally no attempt to take the player on.
About the enemies spotting you in high places. They won't tilt their heads up, but they do have a cone of vision, so if they are far enough away from your high point they can spot you.
I understand what Rich means, I really do. And in a kind of a way I'm on a same page. BUT that said, to me, the strength of a design like this lies in, especially in a game like this (encouraging stealthy approach to challenges), that it allows me to play thru the situations where my sneaky way of progressing just fails, because I failed to take that one thing into account. I just love that in both Dishonored games. I don't have to necessarily load the save, I can try to survive what ever the situation is. In the first installment I was super adamant to play it thru as 100% stealth, but in this one I kinda started to like the playing in the way of "if my sneaking fails, I'll try to adapt" and man did I have a LOT of fun by doing this. And I don't mean, that I then killed everyone by shooting them in the face, no, I always used whatever worked the best in that situation, and a lot of times it is to try to get away, vanish in thin air and then try to sneak your way all over again, with a different approach.
That comment jack made about bioshock sums up jack perfectly, way to miss the entire point of choices in Bioshock, oh wait he probably skipped through every cutscene or talked about star wars through them.
Man Jack, you need to reupload this video with the clip from the stream earlier tonight of when you and Rich were talking about curing the Doctor and then killing her, to just end up killing her instead. Hilarious!!
Maybe they've mentioned before that their videos would have spoilers but some kind of warning would have been nice. It was as if they forgot that this video would be seen by other people.
I think this game is an achievement for the artists behind it! I actually think I'll be getting this game very soon. It's simple but there is sometimes genius within less and not too much!
Sylvarsty I imagine if it remains anything like other modern shooters like CoD they'll still be turned off. They come from a generation of Doom and subsequent arena shooters like Halo where aiming while moving and strafing is key. For a lot of people there's no point in playing modern shooters because there's been a shift to who-sees-who-first twitch reaction and unlockables to reward casual players so there's not that skill gap that you're motivated to overcome anymore.
Interesting, I recommend doing multiple playthroughs. Your chaos level effects the way the way you play, so if you don't kill anybody there will be fewer guards and fewer blood flies, whereas if you do kill people then there are more guards and more violent interactions. Plus there is always a hidden way to go through missions that you may not have noticed on a previous playthrough the game is full of secrets. It has a lot of hidden layers that can be peeled back.
They look up because you're making movement noise. You started sneaking AFTER you got noticed in the bit you've shown. You sneak by changing your stance pressing Ctrl or whatever it is you've rebinded it to.
shut up
In the video he's standing though. If you're not crouched you're making noise. He did something wrong. The game is functioning as intended.
but that's not the problem, the game fails to tell you when and how it's functioning as intended, that was rich's entire problem.
kyle ross there is no problem. Instead of visibility gem you have your lightning icon as Jack pointed out. It works really good. I've seen Rich's stream. He has no patience towards this game and should give up being a ghost and just have fun.
@kyle ross The game shouldn't have to tell the player how hearing works, unless the player is deaf of course.
I can't believe Rich mispronounced 'Arkane' so many times in a row.
Bioshock is not about choice. It's pretty much the exact opposite - Bioshock is about the *illusion* of choice.
yeah Jack is very mistaken, I facepalmed so hard when he was talking about BioShock
well jhe is the same guy that, for some reason, thinks kojima is a fucking hack because his games are pretentious, even though, mechanic wise, the metal gear solid series is one of the best game series ever made
yes he is.
the "jamming the giant needle into your arm" scene still is solved pretty poorly.
well. story-writing-wise he is...
genkispt maybe, but he is also quite loose and lighthearted about it... at times, despite how absurdly pretentious his stories are he does manage to sneak some fun in there, like fighting a flaming whale on a horse right after escaping some hospital or all the waifu stuff that he sneaks in his games or that doctor pissing his pants or snake talking about his weird box religion, and the point remains, game design wise, his games are stellar, so jack can shove his opinions on kojima up his ass
3:35 Interesting fact, Thief was initially designed to be a fantasy sword-fighting simulator, but when they found out how awful the swordfighting was in their engine, they basically changed the entire framework of the game.
My favorite channel after RLM, of course.
Haha I love when you guys make sound effects to accompany Rich's hand gestures.
I miss the karate chops every time rich smacks his hands together
this game is published by Bethesda, arkane is who actually makes the game.
I was just about to type this.
gh h Bethesda and Arkane are owned by the same company.
@@pattraverse778 actually, Bethesda owns Arkane would be the more accurate statement.
@@apictureoffunction actually no there both owner by zenimax media
Rich, they saw you up top because you were not crouching and they heard you lol
Hahahaha right?? Even all these years later it cracks me up
Gotta be in stealth..to be stealthy..
He stands up..
Then, 20 seconds after Jack explained it, it shows the white lightning bolt appear, and he had time to duck back, but he stood there like a dumbass until it went red
That was entirely rich sucking and not the game having a bad design
(This is a common theme in pre rec reviews, they talk out of their ass a lot when they're either wrong, confused or misunderstanding something. Still love them though.)
@@KaladinVegapunk Rich: game didnt tell me if I was hidden
Also Rich: People need handholding unfortumately
So glad you guys reviewed this! I really liked the the first Dishonored and I was one the fence about this one but now I absolutely want to play it. Keep making quality content guys
That opening mission, which is basically a training mission, is the only one where you could conceivably just sprint through everything. And being a ghost, versus being noisy and bloody, affects your "chaos" score, which affects the ending.
Never really had an issue with the hidden vs. not hidden thing, but the game also doesn't take place in darkness for the most part - you're usually traversing cities during the day. You can also unlock the power that shows you the vision cones of the enemies.
Rich you got caught because you weren't crouched the guards can hear your footsteps if you're standing.
I love watching Pre-Rec. Jack and Rich have great synergy and humor in reviewing games. Please do more!
Gotta love how the “play your way” tutorial came up as rich bum rushed the level
Rich speed running through that one mission instead of "stealthing" was basically the equivalent of him Mega Punching his way through Pokemon. I love it.
It also reminds me his Casual Horse idea. Completely unconventional and yet effective.
I resent the handholding endemic to modern action/stealth/adventure games. Remember stumbling around for an hour trying to figure out what to do and the feeling of accomplishment when you did? You could always look up a guide, but that felt like cheating. Thief, Half Life, No One Lives Forever... Those games were amazing, and although level design was necessarily simpler and more linear back then, the lack of handheld GPS organ necessitated designing around goals.
That time travel level, where you could change the past and the future changes to acomodate that, is one of the neatest shit I've ever seen.
RICH- if you like stealth, try STYX, its a pure stealth game, no guns blazing, amazing maps
Yeah, Styx is the real spiritual successor to Thief. Dishonored 1&2 have more of a Thief tribute mode tacked into their berserk assassin game.
OMG, someone is talking about Styx. Loved this game so much. Can't wait for the second one.
Every time someone brings up Styx there's a bunch of people knocking it. I'd say it's impossible to dislike Styx for a Thief fan at least.
National Acrobat I understand how someone can dislike this game. Parkour, for example, was so broken. Half of my deaths in this game are me falling to the ground, cause I couldn't catch some piece of wood. But i loved it anyway. Story, soundtrack, voice-acting, gameplay - all of that was on point.
Styx: Master of Shadows, is an AWESOME game.
As someone who absolutely adores Dishonored for its gameplay... every single one of Rich's complaints and criticisms are 100% legit.
"Should we gather for whiskey & Robert Z'Dar tonight?"
Rich, you said that one of your favorite things about metal gear solid V was that you could either go guns blazing or stealth. but you dont like it in this game?
I didn't say "I don't like it" I'm saying you're trading tension for options. I liked Dishonored 2, It's just having the choice to hide or fight isn't inherently "better" than a purely stealth focused game.
Previously Recorded Alright alright, fair enough my dude. I love the show and you guys, most underrated people on youtube 100%
So far my favorite execution of a stealth/action hybrid has been Shadow of Mordor. It's a game that, at least for me, and at least for certain parts of the game, trying to go rambo would usually get you killed. But at the same time, perfect stealth wasn't necessary. It was more a game about adapting to the situation and exploiting the weaknesses of the enemy. And I really enjoyed it (I remember one time I spent something like 15 minutes performing guerrilla tactics against this commander and his forces after I messed up my first attempt to assassinate him)
Also the fact that you can save every 5 seconds gets rid of A LOT of tension. Hate that in games.
SlySpy If it's there, I'm going to use it. No self control. Especially with anxiety. They should design the game to have checkpoints or something and make it an option to toggle save states on or off. Because f you design the game with save states in mind, turning it off could be a problem lol.
9:51 they didnt see you. You weren't crouched, they heard you walking around and then saw you. So yeah that's on you sorry Rich.
The Rich sprint run was great
Rich, you made noise which caused the guards to look up
Truly like watching your reviews.
Keep them coming!
@12:00 The point of BioShock was that player choice is an illusion.
Hey that Bioshock criticism is bullshit. You CAN not pick up the plasmid, the same way you CAN not go to Rapture at the beginning or not pick up the gun. But the character ( and player ) is put in a situation where the only logical thing to do is using the plasmid or picking up the gun or going to the mysteruous city. With the plasmid is because it's the only way to open the door and hopefully finding a way out of the city.
I'm not sure if the Bioshock plasmid scene was ever intended to be a choice, rather just a way to illustrate how the protagonist is getting fantastical powers. I believe the only reason the player even has control in that scene or the lighthouse scene is the game was made in the Half Life school of thought where they wanted to have a minimum of cutscenes. So I guess I agree it's not a valid criticism because "giving the player a choice" wasn't really what Bioshock was shooting for.
I will however also agree with Jack that it's friggin crazy that one would just inject themselves with an unknown glowing liquid even if someone on a radio is telling them to. Not sure of a more concise set-up but there's got to be one that makes more sense.
Carlos wasn't he being mind controlled to pick up the plasmid? Spoiler alert.
Agreed. Also, you're in the 60s in a run down city taken over by crazy people. Who in that scenario would be freaked out by injecting yourself with a syringe to get superpowers. Jack's complaint that that is lack of choice is nitpicky bullshit.
Jebas R Would you kindly put the spoiler warning at the start of your message lol
+TheTron08 Not sure if this qualifies as a more concise set-up, but System Shock 2 presented the player with a satisfying amount of choice in the very beginning of the game, which also made sense story wise. It boiled down to introducing 3 classes - space marine, engineer, and psyonic - and giving a quick tutorial of their respective play styles and options.
Then it gave you 3 more choices:
1) going the "pure" route by sticking to a single class
2) creating a 2 classes hybrid
3) opting for a jack-of-all-trades, with the risk of gimping yourself
After this prologue the story unfolds in a rather linear fashion just like in Bioshock. Yet the biggest difference between both games is that SS2 allows for more gameplay freedom through the initial commitment to a particular style, and it also fosters replayability. Whereas in Bioshock you inevitably turn into an unstoppable killing machine - with full access to all the boosted weapons and plasmids - and the only incentives to replay the game are either to see the other ending or going after achievements.
Hope this was helpful and not too off-topic.
If Rich want pure stealth, he should play on hardest difficulty. Especially with the hud and objective indicators off.
the game is still easy and stealth is still slower and more tedious that just murdering everything that moves also turning off the indicators just makes it unplayable they talk about why in the video.
You can still sprint through.
ya that kinda sucks. i dont remember being able to do that in the first one
You can only sprint because it's the very beginning of the game. Enemies don't have guns yet.
still counts
I agree with everything Rich is saying except for 9:44. You got seen because you were standing up and walking. They heard your footsteps. Then looked in the direction of the noise. THEN saw you. STAY crouched and you don't emit sound.
Your character unquestioningly using the plasma in Bioshock is in keeping with the Choice theme. Jack is an automaton; "A man chooses, a slave obeys" etc. It establishes that your character is a literal slave. Though this is obviously much clearer later on, the "choices" Jack (and the player) make up until the reveal are completely at Atlas' suggestion. Aside from saving or harvesting the little sisters.
I feel like if you gave Jack a game where you can only see half the screen he would say he liked it because it's fun to guess what's on the other side.
Carlos god, you are so right.
Rich is 100% right. All stealth games, post Thief have vague stealth where even though you could be 100 feet away from an enemy they can see you even if your head just pops up from behind a crate. In Thief that would never happen, but in almost every "stealth" game since Thief it happens. I'm sure there are exceptions which I'm sure everyone will now throw at me, but that is the biggest problem with Dishonored's "stealth". That and nearly every Dishonored mission is in daytime and nearly every mission in Thief is in nighttime. Doesn't make it easy to hide at high noon. So really, you kind of have to play it Jack's way or just be insanely patient and get upset when you get caught when you "felt hidden".
MGS3 was one where you always knew how effectively hidden you were,and knowing the enemies field of view.
deus ex human revolution and mankind divided have fantastic mechanics to let you know how hidden you are
I mean Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is the epitome of stealth games imo and it relies heavily on shadows hiding you, and you could stand all the way up if you were in the pitch black and never be seen. Also, that game can be played full assault but is much more difficult and risky.
Agreed, everyone makes fun of stealth games that lack realistic AI like in MGS games (especially 3) but the AI doesn't have to be realistic to be good in the same way that not every shooter has to be like ARMA to be good.
Richard Belcher It's why I can't get into dishonored. There is zero feedback to the player if he's hidden.
this is one of my favorite reviews from you guys.
Jack, you should have edited in a few kids throwing confetti in the air and saying "yaaaay" when Rich got it right.
that's stoklasa's editing style, to make his friends look stupid. jack uses his powers for good, i think.
The Grunt Birthday Party from Halo
If you play Dishonored 2 without powers on very hard non-lethal/ghost it essentially becomes a very difficult thief game.
Sure these limitations are self-imposed but isn't that true of difficulty settings in general?
"Why would I play this game on hard mode when I can finish it faster on easy?" BECAUSE ITS MORE FUN.
Sure, the temptation to go non-stealthy if you are in a difficult area is there, where as in Alien:Isolation you don't have that option but for me that's not a downside.
Bethesda Softworks published Dishonored 2, Arkane (France or Austin, Texas, can't remember) made Dishonored 2. Some people working at Arkane worked on the original Thief games.
When talking about Bioshock, Jack's "choices" comment could be referring to saving/sacrificing the Little Sisters.
1:11 I didn't realize Mike had a job as a voice actor for video games back in the day
This comment is underrated lol
Jack: "Rich! I've come to bargain!"
Multiple ways to achieve objectives? Wow that does sound cool. Reminds me of this Vampire game that came out a few years ago. Of course you had to get past the tutorial to get to that stuff. Wouldn't be a problem for these guys.
I’m 8 years behind these guys.
Just playing the game now.
Oh, happy day! A new PreRec to keep me going!
Hey guys, just wanted to congratulate you on a great review. The thief comparisons were on point. I love when y'all have different opinions.
Keep it up. Reviewers tend to be shit these days. We need people like you creating quality content.
Cool ep, guys! I'm buzzing to play the Dishonored series. Glad you liked it
11:19 "You have options. You can choose to get magic from the guy who's... WHAT THE HELL?! A BLOODY FLYING WHALE?!?"
Dishonored 1 I liked when it came out, but I replayed it this week and love it now. Can't wait to get some time to beat the second one
I like that Rich Evans hears out differing opinions and considers them. It's refreshing.
Once you play through Bioshock, you realize you really had no choice to begin with, so I can forgive that glowing liquid thing in the beginning. It did seem lazy, but I can forgive it because the rest of the game more than makes up for it.
I watch the streams pretty often, but I forget that you guys do these reviews of the games. I think watching the streams is a part of getting to know the things you guys love/hate/kinda like etc..which gives more insight into your reviews.
Jack must know that the first Bioshock is all about not having a choice, while thinking you do and do things because you want to help someone, right?
That's the whole plot of the game..........you are instructed to kindly inject yourself with it, so you do.
replay that section. You are not "asked" would you kindly inject yourself.
Previously Recorded you're right, but is it not heavily implied that Atlas wants you to get it? He is just like "well, you will be fine and I need you to get that"
In the end the point still stance that any real choice of your own would kill the whole story of that game. Outside of killing or saving the little sisters, which is part of the story.
Previously Recorded Born and raised in Rapture for this exact reason, you never had a choice in the narrative. Your character was literally born to be a pawn.
Arkane made Dishonored 1 & 2, Bethesda published it.
Why do people always forget that Bethesda is a publisher as well as a developer?
Because people want to think that Bethesda can do something that isn't recycling the same open-world game over and over again.
Bethesda Softworks does not develop games, they only publish games. Bethesda Game Studios develops games.
They're all owned by the same company.It's just arguing semantics at this point.
+Saddy Martinez Actually it isn't just arguing semantics. It is important to know who developed a game that Bethesda Softworks is publishing because all the different studios make different type of games.
People say that Pokemon are games made by Nintendo when it's actually Game Freak. Because in the end it doesn't really matter.
The clockwork mansion was incredible! That and the level where you get given a "clock" by the outsider are utterly brilliant.
In Bioshock, you had little to no choice, the only freedom you had was to save or kill the little sisters. Until you get to Andrew, every decision was made for you.
not injecting the syringe, there was no "will you kindly"
Well, Atlus was still guiding you to it, and that door will not open without it, so you still didn't have a choice, even without the "WYK."
20:10 i want to know why the word puzzles is overdubbed? and what did it dub over?
Yeah, I caught that too. It not only looks like a dub, but some kind of janky video edit too.
paul sneddon They probably stuck 2 sentences together because they talked too much
Rich Evans
Rich is reaching hard enough he's going to strain himself.
To be fair Jack, (spoilers of a 9 year old game) Bioshock was about the illusion of choice. Although you as a player made certain choices, your objective and path was designed by Fontaine. He meant you to crash the plane into the sea and venture into Rapture and use plasmids and your advanced genetics to kill Andrew Ryan. Also if you try to proceed past that first room the door is jammed and Atlas tells you to look for something to open the door with.
THEY HEARD YOU WHEN YOU WERE UP, YOU DIDNT START SNEAKING UNTIL THEY ALREADY DETECTED YOU
Yeah, rich is a dumbass.
The duel nature of the game is a strength in my opinion, you can basically play it twice (or 4 times in this game), and get 4 different experiences.
If it was just a stealth game, it would be just another stealth game with nothing special about it.
The Stilton Mansion has three timelines, depending on whether or not you prevent him from attending the seance (without killing him). The present becomes less ruined, but still different from the past.
Also Meagan Foster grows her arm and eye back.
i loved the first couple of Tenchu games. i miss those
Just want to say you guys r great,also fuckin love the intro and outro music on everything RLM does!!!
Bring this series back!
Rich just has weird critical opinions sometimes..
Being able to go guns blazing doesn't make stealth less rewarding, it makes it more rewarding because you're taking the harder option.. Sure, it would have higher stakes if you couldn't survive being caught, but idk. It's better than being frustrated if you fuck up and being able to just have cool combat, Its soo minor.
He definitely likes being like the "smart critical guy" even if it's not really justified.
OK, I'm sold. I'll have to get this out when I get a new PC. I love stealth games, especially those with options and open level layouts.
That white Sox hat always makes me wanna slap rich! Go Cubs!
"Dishonored 2: The Metal Age". This game really is THIEF 4 as far as I'm concerned. If only the THIEF Reboot game was half as good a stealth game as Dishonored 2 is.
PS. Rich is spot-on regarding sooooo many things while debating this game.
guys you can lock onto runes and bonecharms so you dont have to have that heart out all the time
Well I learned something today!
the problem of stealth is that if the part not stalth is more easy, the stealth just doen't make sense
Hey Jack would you kindly go get yourself some plasmids? I think you need to play the game,especially if you think bioshock is about choice. Bioshock is about the illusion of choice.
Bioshock wasn't about choice Jack, it was about the lack of choice under the illusion of it.
Just started getting into this channel from rlm. Holy fuck Jack can't review for shit. He misplaces his expectations of the game then whines when the game does meet them. Or has no idea how story effects games. You would think a company that spends all day calling out hacks he would have some self awareness
Darksiders 2 has a pretty fun time travel level as well. Especially fun since it crosses over with the events of Darksiders 1 as well
Bethesda Game Studios (developer) are different to but owned by Bethesda Softworks (publisher). The latter published this game but it was developed by Arkane Studios.
its pretty obvious why they would be confused by that though
Yes, and my comment is meant to clear up the confusion
7:52 Not always, and here's why: A game should have very understandable rules and limitations. Games that promise you the ability to do whatever you want are seldom anything other than frustration or aimless.
The clip from the Stream, also, does not convey a sense that this was designed this way. It looks like the game designers simply failed to take into account that a player might try to do that. You'd think some of these guards would try to shoot you or run you down. Something. There's literally no attempt to take the player on.
I'm gonna start quoting PreRec reviews on Wikipedia pages. You're welcome, Jack and Rich.
This game and this studio consistently disappoints me.
About the enemies spotting you in high places. They won't tilt their heads up, but they do have a cone of vision, so if they are far enough away from your high point they can spot you.
I understand what Rich means, I really do. And in a kind of a way I'm on a same page. BUT that said, to me, the strength of a design like this lies in, especially in a game like this (encouraging stealthy approach to challenges), that it allows me to play thru the situations where my sneaky way of progressing just fails, because I failed to take that one thing into account. I just love that in both Dishonored games. I don't have to necessarily load the save, I can try to survive what ever the situation is.
In the first installment I was super adamant to play it thru as 100% stealth, but in this one I kinda started to like the playing in the way of "if my sneaking fails, I'll try to adapt" and man did I have a LOT of fun by doing this. And I don't mean, that I then killed everyone by shooting them in the face, no, I always used whatever worked the best in that situation, and a lot of times it is to try to get away, vanish in thin air and then try to sneak your way all over again, with a different approach.
That comment jack made about bioshock sums up jack perfectly, way to miss the entire point of choices in Bioshock, oh wait he probably skipped through every cutscene or talked about star wars through them.
What is the old school music that plays when Rich just says F it and goes directly for the ship?
I need to know this
20:10 what happened here when Jack says "puzzles"?
Man Jack, you need to reupload this video with the clip from the stream earlier tonight of when you and Rich were talking about curing the Doctor and then killing her, to just end up killing her instead. Hilarious!!
Maybe they've mentioned before that their videos would have spoilers but some kind of warning would have been nice. It was as if they forgot that this video would be seen by other people.
Rich really needs to play the new Hitman if he wants stealth in which you really can't go guns blazing.
Is "over and over again" replacing the "replacing" meme?
Can Rich Evans poke another hole...into my iPhone 7? I need a headphone jack.
I notice Rich is still wearing that White Sox hat even though the Cubs won the world series...
I think this game is an achievement for the artists behind it! I actually think I'll be getting this game very soon. It's simple but there is sometimes genius within less and not too much!
can you guys review Final Fantasy XV? love your vids guys!
Can anyone tell me the name of the music at 6:04?
Blue Mystery Block - Tires On Fire
Much appreciated Crom, close enough. You my dawg
What's the music playing when Rich ran through the streets? They used it in Friday the 13th montage as well.
The guards saw you up on the ledge because you weren't sneaking, you were stomping around up there making noise.
Jack should play Titanfal 2, its campaign has a very similar time travel mechanic in one mission, albeit with a totally different style of gameplay.
I think they found Titanfall so dull and derivative they probably won't play the sequel at all
Stephen Carroll which is a shame because the sequel fixed a lot of the issues they had, especially their issue with both teams looking the same.
Sylvarsty
I imagine if it remains anything like other modern shooters like CoD they'll still be turned off. They come from a generation of Doom and subsequent arena shooters like Halo where aiming while moving and strafing is key. For a lot of people there's no point in playing modern shooters because there's been a shift to who-sees-who-first twitch reaction and unlockables to reward casual players so there's not that skill gap that you're motivated to overcome anymore.
9:44 rich is not crouched in stealth mode, that is why the guards noticed him. they heard his footsteps.
Interesting, I recommend doing multiple playthroughs. Your chaos level effects the way the way you play, so if you don't kill anybody there will be fewer guards and fewer blood flies, whereas if you do kill people then there are more guards and more violent interactions. Plus there is always a hidden way to go through missions that you may not have noticed on a previous playthrough the game is full of secrets. It has a lot of hidden layers that can be peeled back.
They didn't see him up top... They heard him because he wasn't crouching.
Is "which way should I go now?" replacing "remove skeleton"?
That Evil Dead shirt is amazing.
That ending? I loved it.
This was a good prerec episode guys!