Defender doors - why they corrode and a simple way to prevent it!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2018
- Requested video on Defender door and how it can be false economy to repair them IF they have gone to bad
Here is a link to the Dum Dum caulk -there are a few manufactures out there
ca.proformproducts.com/en/prod...
DON'T use silicone or mastic! Tempting as it may be, you may need to take the weather strip door seal out and the Dum Dum comes out easy AND you can use it again!
If you have a pre 2005 Land Rover problem and do not know how to fix it, drop me a line! Maybe I can help!
britrest@britrest.com - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I have a late td5 (2005) and after watching your video I'm glad to have discovered I have the later type door (Puma). No rust at all!
Thank you for sharing your wisdom, wish I could bring my old Defender to you xxx
Hi Mike. great video again thanks. I think the Td5 doors were changed to Puma style doors towards the end of the production, maybe 2004?? The day I bought my Puma brand new in 2011 I removed pretty much every nut and bolt and copper greased them and also waxoyled the chassis and all doors and bulkhead. I also sprayed it around the under seat boxes and up in the joint between wings and bulkhead. Today nearly 9 years on and every nut and bolts come off easily, (even the front lower shock nuts),theres no rust inside the chassis and the doors are all like new. However.... all the pressed steel parts and chassis welds are rusty because GKN/LR couldn't be bothered to prep anything before dipping. AND, I've now found bubbles and grease spots under the paint on chassis and brackets!! But.. the beautiful Keswick green body work is unmarked and in perfect condition.
Galvanic corrosion. How did they not think about it!!! Sometimes I wonder what they do in the engineering department
A great informative video. It's all of these seemingly insignificant little things that make all the difference overall. I have never thought of using Dum Dum on the door top window seals. That's a job i will get onto right away. Thank you.
Mike, you’re a star !
You’re a genius! My Td5 doors are shagged!... Gonna keep an eye out for some tdci doors and keep them sprayed to match. Thanks for the info
Thanks!
Don't forget to rust proof the hell out of them!
Mike
some fantastic tips there Mike I'm definitely using the Dum Dum one
It really is a good product- you can apply it wet or dry, it is paintable and old stuff if clean can be rolled into a ball and used again!
Miles better than silicone!
Mike
@@BritannicaRestorations Thanks for this Mike.
For the European have a look here. www.nonpaints.com/en/3m-strip-calk-6mm-x-30cm.
I agree with a previous statement you made about waxoil, personally I use Dinitrol products having run some experimental tests some years ago on an Austin Ambassador I restored.
Thanks for more great tips Mike.
Thanks David
Mike
Thank you very much Mike. Excellent video. It was very informative! My understanding is much better now:) I really appreciate you taking your time to make these videos! Especially taking in consideration that I forced you out in all that snow!
I guess I will be doing a “hack” repair of the doors and cover it with chequer plate. The car is completely stripped and I think it is better to use the money on the less accessible stuff now, and then in the future I can get som galvanized doors!
Hi Champ!
Thanks for the reply
I managed to did the container doors open and get access to my LR doors, so I am filming right now, typical LR door deconstruction - not looking too bad, but the skins are shot. They will not go back on
That is a good call to do the difficult parts first - a door is easy access.
When I have seen people building Defenders here, most of the time they blow their budget on big wheels and tyres, bull bar and winch etc, only to find the frame is rotten along with the bulkhead!
Mike
Great video! Very informative and I'll defenetly will have use for it. Looking forward to the video of you stripping the door. I need to try to fix my doors, because as a student I cant afford 4 new ones - they are very expensive to ship from UK to Sweden aswell. Luckely I'm not afraid to get working on it or denting/scratching the paint of it (But i try to avoid it as much as i can of course!). Benefits of having a "cheap" usable Land Rover that is my own!
KingBrave
Thanks for your reply!
I know how expensive shipping can be for parts, and I know not all of us are on big budgets, so I really like to cater my channel show you how to do things cost effectively.
Unfortunately in Canada Defenders are seen as a 'cult' vehicle as there are not so many and the prices are high. Consequently, repairs have to be done to a high standard and customers want long warranties on work, and that is why I mentioned fitting new doors as I then have some guarantee myself that no corrosion is going to come through in the next few years.
I have had quite a good feedback both on TH-cam and on email about this subject, so I think I will try and dig out a door and show you what you can do while it is quiet in the shop
Mike
KingBarve ooo
Had some replacement doors top and bottom completely made out of allyminum no electrosi created by a electric current of irons and alloys touching eachother
My 2006 td5 has the pressed type new doors on as standard
Great advice, thanks
Thanks Michael!
It really works well! Try it - but get the black Dum Dum as it looks good
Mike
Mike, I love your videos, but... Every time I watch I find new problems with my 90. New doors needed, tick.
Great and very informative. I have a 2002 110 TD5 where both rear passenger doors have gone through on the steel frame on the opening end next to the bottom of the window. Do you know if the rear passenger doors of a Puma will also fit a TD5?
Depends if you are buying used complete doors or just the door shells
They are a direct fit, as I have fitted them to a 300 Tdi, but the door cards have a slightly different shape
I have an idea that you have to get the Puma door check strap assembly too
If you do not get the winder mechanism, I think the Td5 may need some brackets welding on
Mike
I have wax oiled mine 10 years ago and will redo it again this year, no problems. Left the drain holes open. The only problem is that in the hot sun it can drip out at first and make a bit of a mess.
Waxoyl is not so good in Canada - winter is too cold and it gets quite hard. Salt water can get behind it. Does not preform as good as milder climates like the UK.
I have tested a lot of products and our local April wax base rust proofer works quite well, however you need to spray it annually, but I did see a local garage today advertising spraying the underside of a car for $59 inc materials - I might as well take MY vehicle there!
(And anything is better than Ziebart!)
So, what you are saying is that Defenders are a per-assembled unfinished vehicle that are left to the owners to complete. Brilliant! Saves massively on labor costs! No wonder used Defenders sell for U$90000 in the States, they are a continuous source of amusement and befuddlement to their owners,
We are rebuilding some doors soon. We are going to repair the rusted frames and reskin with galv skins. Not sure it's worth getting the door frames hot galvanised. I think we will properly paint them, maybe with cold galv and fill them with fishoilene.
I have problems with galvanizing old stuff that you cannot sandblast both side of the metal - looks nice from the outside, but if you have rust proofing or primer inside a box section, then the zinc will not stick.
The acid in the galvanizing tank will only strip off rust
See here for my thoughts - th-cam.com/video/Xw5J8BO-h9o/w-d-xo.html
Mike
Hi, I’m helping my mate rebuild his series 3 Land Rover. After watching your defender door corrosion video I hoped you may have some advise on the same topic for series 3 with sliding windows. In our case the full doors are being replaced. Many Thanks. PS Gnarly Boot = John
John
I have not seen an S3 here for years!
I seem to get Defenders, Disco 2 and P38's mainly
If I do happen to come across a door I will post a video
I think that the complete door tops are so relatively cheap, that not many bother stripping and rebuilding
Mike
Gnarly Boot
You are lucky with the Series doors. No double layers, covers, window mechanics... Just a plain sheet of metal that can be repaired. But they are also cheap in the UK. Getting them painted is probably the expensive part if you are not doing it yourself.
Door top £35. Door bottom £69. Without glass and locks.
Mine was gone at the top but i stripped off the skin that was salvageable and you can buy the top sections from YRM. I welded in and now as good as new.
Well done!
Unfortunately for us in Canada, vehicles have to be over 15 years old to be imported, so I seem to see a lot of doors that are not cost effective to be repaired .
To me, once they have gone at the tops and bottoms, they are too far gone - and my customers want warranties on work - it is a bit different if you are doing it for yourself
Thanks
Mike
That's the thing, it took me hours. Not cost effective to add labour as you say. I fitted new bottom section, put big drain holes on them, injected paint the lots of Dinitrol. Hopefully it should last a while, now it is in a warm dry garage too. Paddocks want over £600 GBP for a set of doors now!
It really is a dilemma. Cost vs. time.
As I say, for me as business it is not worth it. What you save in money, you use in time, however to be realistic, I would think it reasonable to say, that 2 days per door is normal from start to finish. Even if the skin can be salvaged, you then have to take into account the bodywork job to get the door looking presentable again. Lot of filling and sanding etc.
Unfortunately in Canada, Defenders are not used like utility vehicles like I was brought up with, but more of a 'Range Rover' SUV, so they want them better than they came out of the factory.
And that is not going to happen!
Mike
I have a 14 plate defender. Should I still use the caulk on the doors to be safe? It was raining pretty hard in Scotland today and could see the water streaming in. A quick google and I found myself here!!
Worth a go
the seals only need caulking on the ends - but do not use silicone as you may have to remove them one day
Can you do a video on changing hinge pins? I'm thinking of taking them off and having them hot dip galvanized. I have the pins on the way. Starting with the back door. Thank you. Great vid! Thumbs UP!!!
Do you know, in all my years of Land Rovering I have never got the pins out!
I know they are pressed in from the top, but do not want to lose and eye trying to change a 10 cent pin!
I fit the Td5 hinges which are better
Sorry for not being very helpful
Mike
Britannica Restorations well. I live in Brazil and a $60 set of hinges plus shipping plus import tax, gets close to $160. At that price I’d like to have stainless. Anyway, I’m bringing $6 new pins with a friend from the states.
Britannica Restorations só basically I need to remove the hinge, and tap the pin out the top?
OK - give it a go BUT I have never got the pins out - tell you what - take a video and I will host it here and I will honestly given you 100% recognition
No joke - I really want to see somebody do this - I have not seen the pins on the market
This would be great if I can get it to work - serious
Mike
Whats the colour code on that Defender ?
Additional to the Dumdum could you fill the cavity with Waxoyl ?
If you mean the cavity below the window, the you maybe could - but difficult to get something in - not much space
You need to be REALLY careful using an air-tool to fit door skins.
If you don't hold the tool perfectly flat against the door you can make an ugly crease all the way around the edge of the outside skin of the door.
For DIY purposes, it's probably better to just fit it by hand, slowly.
My mechy uses an oil-based rust-treatment. Not as waxy.
Thanks again! I couldn't find a source for Dum Dum here in Germany (for some reason Germans associate that term only with dumdum bullets... even though you can't easily get them here - or any other bullets or guns, fortunately ;-).
I came across 3M 8578 strip calk (yeah, it's US american ;-) would that work as well?
Yes that will work - it seems the original company no longer makes it - the 3M is good, but not as sticky as the original - I warm it up a bit before using
Mike
Butylband ist das Stichwort
ah, ok, thanks! that's what "fred" is using extensively here th-cam.com/video/WZn5rnh7XlE/w-d-xo.html
Hi great informative video, but why not galvanize the frame instead of the skin?
Because we have no local galvanize facilities
@@BritannicaRestorations well, not much to do in that case than indeed :)
hi mate. is there a bigger pic of yer landy there? looks like ya got the cabin extended? i am interested to do the same
th-cam.com/video/vjb5xnplX_8/w-d-xo.html
tx mate! 😄
Use ACF50
Why no silicone? I was thinking liquid nails would work great.
Silicone is very 1980's, it is difficult to remove if you need to take the weather stripping/door seal off again if you need to work inside the door - for example, if you need to change the door latch, you have to take the glass out which means you have to take the weather stripping off. Dum Dum is easy to remove, AND you can use it again
Mike
Hallo, my door is toast at the bottom anyway, but I'm trying to get the door card off to clear out the rust, yes I know, don't cringe, but I can't seem to get the internal lock off to remove the door card, am I being stupid (yeah i know I've got a defender so it goes without saying!) But thank you for all your advice.
Have you got the plastic outside handles or the metal lift up type?
@@BritannicaRestorations I've got plastic handles where the button pushes in. (Its a 97, 300tdi).
th-cam.com/video/yWsOjHRvH30/w-d-xo.html
@@BritannicaRestorations fantastic, thank you. I was fiddling about for ages trying to get that off, and it's so easy! You're a star! Love the videos, you're my go to guy for doing stuff to the landy.
Best way to solve the Defender door issue is remove the skin, have the frame cleaned and repaired and galvanised, then paint the galvanised frame before reattaching the skin, when fitting the skin add a layer of seam sealer or similar (NOT SILICONE BASED) right along the frame where it makes contact with the skin thus isolating the metals, fold the skin over and then do final paint - done properly with proper paint and materials it will last forever.
The issue is that steel and aluminium are not painted before assembly of these doors so they sit together, then they get wet and galvanic corrosion starts as steel and aluminium are relativity speaking quite far apart on the galvanic series, so they react badly, by reducing the separation on the galvanic series by coating the steel in zinc (galvanising) you are reducing the reactivity of the two metals, however, if you paint and further isolate the dissimilar metals you will effectively remove the issue in its entirety.
But then by the time you've painted and Galvanised it all, you may aswell buy another door.
may i ask why against using a silicone base?
@@adieismail46 Silicone products anywhere near surfaces to be painted are a nightmare, even using silicone in the same area as spray painting will contaminate the paint and leave marks. Look up silicone and paint shops! I have banned silicone based products in my home workshop as I spray paint a lot.
Also, silicone is fine for sealing a door or window, but it is actually a poor product at adhering and staying put. A bead of silicone will begin to peel and debond fairly quickly in a setting like this. Polyurethane, particularly automotive based products should be used. Puraflex 40 is a good product as an example.
@@peterpeterson9903 thx for taking me to school mate!