I paid $180 for my B 550 when it launched. That is double of what I paid for my board 6 to 7 years ago. Back when Jay started the channel and ran AMD. He would recommend $60 - $70 boards and I bought $80 for some extras. Now $80 gets you the box and installation guide.
@@lamikal2515 I think u dont get Jay's point either. I just looked at pcpartpicker, $180-$300 seems to be a sweet spot ,theres so many great boards for the price, b650 to x670e, matx to ATX, but people just want the flashiest. Don't overexaggerate.
@@yukisnoww No, we don't want crap VRM implementations or lack of VRM cooling. It's not always about flash unless you are an RGB snob. Get your facts straight. We just get stuck with RGB because all the Twitch/Kick streamers want to showcase their builds.
@@kingelingoverrated? Ok mate. You are a boring person. Tv is far from overrated. You can watch almost every tv channel with an app now. And you have more control over what you watch. And you still need a tv to play your consoles. Tv will be around long after you and me. Smart tv
The trend with mobos, over the last bunch of years, is that the install guide went from being a book explaining every feature to a pamphlet that basically says, "Any questions go to our website." Hmm I'm building a computer so getting on the internet to look up a solution for an install problem is kinda a bit difficult with computer parts spread all over my floor at that moment.. Thanks.. :)
Where I work at 7-eleven, we still run the exact same profit margin as in 2009, but our prices have gone up 2.5X _minimum_ since then. (Alot of stuff is over 3x). Inflation is literally twice as bad as the media is making it out to be, and this is the result. If you're paying less than 2x for a motherboard, you are getting an incredible deal...you should be paying 3X, if not 4X considering the higher inflation of the relevant materials.
@@ChadDidNothingWrong Yes, "The Media" .... nothing screws up your argument faster than blaming "The Media" for it. Seriously, go to the central bank data and look up the inflation data. It's not that hard.
Current AM5 motherboards have fewer PCIe slots, fewer SATA ports, and fewer audio jacks (sometimes only 2 or 3!). The improved aesthetics were nice for a bit but it's time to get back to the basics - connectivity! EDIT: For those wondering why more PCIe slots are needed - 10 Gig NIC (the boards that have it integrated are way more expensive than just using a PCIe card), video capture cards, etc. Plus if you want to make up for the low end boards skimping on audio jacks and SATA ports, that's more cards you need to add.
AM5 is not alone in having fewer PCIe slots. That's universal now. For the most part people don't have additional cards to install other than the GPU. Some people, such as myself, have 2 or 3 cards needed to be installed, and it's frustrating, I agree, that options are more limited now.
@@dominikbehrendt1934 Delock has a number of HBA cards but note that none of them have controllers that are more than x2 so the total bandwidth for any HBA card is only 2000 MB/s total unless you can find a card with more than one controller chip, the SilverStone ECS07 is also another option its an M.2 x4 card with an x2 controller and 5 SATA ports but fits in an M.2 instead of a PCI-E slot
I'd gladly take more PCIe slots even if it meant they run at slower speed allowing for more efficient use of the PCIe 5 standard via bifurcation. Also more SATA ports... preferably 8 of them.
You actually don't have to go that far back in time. The B450 Tomahawk that was highly regarded as one of the best AM4 boards of that generation had a cost of ~120$ brand new. And this was in the middle of the pandemic.
it's interesting, when i built my PC with i7 4790, i bought a mobo for 50 euros, MSI B85, ofcourse no OC support, but man finding a B mobo now, is like 3x more
I remember buying an entry level motherboard just a few years ago for 70 bucks. It doesn't have a whole lot of features, especially no gimmicky ones, but it does the job. Enough connectivity, 2 M.2 slots. No RGB headers, though, but who cares.
I hate the whole led rgb stuff. It’s such a waste. Why are we looking at the computer anyways. My gpu came with leds so I turned them red so it doesn’t bother my vision at all
@@OneNidim Yeah literally EVERYTHING has to have RGB nowadays. Motherboards, RAM, Fans, GPUs, RGB strips in cases, Headphones, Microphones, Mice, Keyboards, Coolers, and even stuff like freaking mousepads, routers, etc. I don't get it either.
I noticed that there is no entry level anymore. X670E is only 28% more than a crippled B650 board. So what is the point of the B650, B650E and X670, if X670E is basically the same cost???!
This is why I wanted my Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX X670. It has no RGB, Super Robust and overbuilt, affordable for its Class, over built cooling systems for its VRMS and lots of storage slots for m.2s because I love having lots of storage
I'm glad this video was finally made. I have been saying this for 3 years. Every company has used excuses to artificially inflate the pricing. When I got my ASUS TUF x570 motherboard about 3 years ago it's price was only just over $200 in Canada.. even threadripper was more affordable than what mainstream is now.
There's some pretty good deals going on for motherboards right now. Like here's one on Newegg Canada, ASRock b650m DDR5 for $160 CAD after rebate. I paid $130 CAD for my TUF b450m back in 2020, and with inflation is about the same.
100% agreed. Even 8 to 10 yrs ago, when the most expensive boards were in the high 200s, i was calling this garbage out. Nowadays, it's gone completely nuts. They're adding in all sorts of low-cost useless components to the boards so they can inflate the price and their profit margins.
@@kutark 10 years that $200 got you top tier chipset, dual GB NIC, 3-4 PCIe x16 slots (x8 in x16 slot), 8-12 gen 3 SATA, 3 or more USB 2.0, at least 1 USB 3.0, 10+ USB on the back IO, and either debug LEDs, or bios readout displays. And baller status. Lol Now, $200 gets you a mid/low end chipset, and barely enough IO to connect the basics.
I love how good content creators are trying to push and help people to buy what they NEED, and not what the companies are pushing, or just something that you can flex with, just because of the price tag. Thank you!!!
@@iikatinggangsengii2471 not sure your comparison is correct. You need a diverse diet, but sellers want you to get stuff you do not need. It feels more like going at the restaurant and you want the steak, but they only sell 3kg pieces, and you are not allowed to take home the rest or share
The thing I want to see them get back to is simplicity. I'm not looking at my PC when I'm using it, I'm looking at the monitor. Why in the heck do people want them lit up like it's Christmas? Give me components that are affordable and efficient. Take all the "fluff" out of it. I need a PC that does what it is built to do. It doesn't need to win fashion shows.
@@Fxrrxt2x I know the simple parts with no lights and stuff are still out there, but they seem to be in the huge minority. For me, if it'll save me a few bucks on the build, take the lights off. The only reason my current build has any lights at all is because the $90 case was on sale for $55.
I’m annoyed that back motherboards all had LED post code display. Now motherboards can have RGB yet they might not even even have a light to help determine errors.
@@lewiscook3918 I, too, remember beep codes. AFAIK Gigabyte still uses them. If I were to build a new computer, a speaker header is actually a feature I would look for because it's a feature I actively use under Linux.
@@lewiscook3918 I still keep my old speaker from one of our first family PCs, a second hand Research Machines beige box, I use it in all my current main PCs, since even if they don't include one of the modern mini speakers in the motherboard box the board still has the speaker pins.
Frustrating for me these days is that it's hard to find motherboards with enough PCIe slots, as all the lanes have gone off to distant places like M.2 and Thunderbolt controllers. Finding a board with 2 16x slots is rare enough, most of the time the second full length slot is only 8x electrically. I know it's more of a niche use case, but some of us like to add stuff to our computers other than GPUs (high end networking, RAID controllers, etc.)
Maybe you desire to have WiFi in your desktop PC, but you're not feeling like upgrading your entire setup every year to keep up with wireless network trends. Even upgrading a PCIe component every two years or so doesn't seem too crazy, but these days even being able to _fit_ it let alone find a board that even HAS an additional slot is indeed becoming a nightmare.
That's because of CPU support. For example the AMD Ryzen 7xxx series only supports 24 PCIe 5.0 lanes. If you need more PCIe lanes, you need a workstation or server CPU.
The real irony here is that if there weren’t thousands of content creators hyping up PC building, parts, frame rates, etc the manufacturers wouldn’t have the customer base to be able to get away with what they’re doing.
Then blame it on fanboys who only hype one brand. Slanted reviews are what cause over demand for any one product. Just look at the stupidly high prices of EK.
@@M_CFVactually I believe the returns on that are dropping horribly so should be interesting to see who continues selling out and who realizes it's worth more to turn on cheap and shady business
Don’t be afraid to do more “cold hard truth” videos J, more truth like this is needed with how crazy priced electronics have become in not even 10 years. So…. It’s needed, and more valuable than you know, so again, keep it up, don’t pull any punches
I remember upgrading to X99 and thinking a $300 motherboard was expensive. It's insane where prices have gotten, and I still can't get 10 regular USB ports.
I had an X99 with 10 SATA ports sold it to friend that needed a new board and now looking back it was probably one of the last boards that had that many SATA ports maybe other than one of the X99 Rampage boards that had 12 SATA ports
Reminds me in particular of a lot of what's going on in the new car market, all the way from base models up. Companies are no longer selling products for an owner to do work with, they are now selling subscriptions to a limited set of services... that an owner has to balance out by buying even more subscriptions to other competitors who offer the needed features. Owners can no longer get what they need out of any product they buy these days, because companies realized a long time ago that they can earn more off folks by stratifying the utility of any product or service amongst their competitors. They'll do this for as long as they can, make it so we spend more so that they can all earn more. But this is not a new thing, after all it wasn't long ago where you might have had to buy some exorbitant cable plan in order to get the few channels you wanted, all the while wasting hundreds of dollars on channels you'd never ever need. I'm sure other folks can provide their own stories about this.
I remember back in 2018, you'd be able to get a really nice motherboard with future-proofed (for lack of a better term) features for $200 or less. PC gaming is starting to become a hobby for the rich.
Yep, I built an AMD system R7 3700X on a Gigabyte B550. The board cost was like 100 bucks, and I can move into a r7 5700X. Which I will do when they come down in price.
I've been seeing this kind of trend ever since ddr4 *magically* didn't drop in price after it'd been out for a year. Setting new standards for how much the industry could gouge the customer.
Has been a while that rather than old products drastically dropping in price, they just release new products at higher prices. And not just for PC parts.
@@redlimes4808 I do suppose that's also true. Tech has become so good and fast that 2x or more performance isn't even noticable or needed by most people. High-end phones used to be much faster than anything else... but also still fairly affordable, going for like $600-$800 for a while. But now even mid-end phones are so fast most people won't even notice any difference with high-end phones. Even the starter level mid-end phones that go for like $300-$400.
@@thenonexistinghero I literally go for phones that are closer to 100 bucks each, forgo the case and if I drop it and break it and buy a new one I'm STILL paying less than somebody buying even a new 300-400 dollar phone every other year. I also don't see the point in having "gaming" phones or playing games on my phone anyway, if I'm sitting somewhere and need my phone to kill time I probably have my steam deck and can play "real" games anyway, and with the money I didn't pay extra for the phone I can easily afford a steam deck.
@@SherrifOfNottingham Never bought a phone in my entire life. Am using an old nokia as a morning alarm clock and watch mostly, maybe make a phone call a month. Never felt the need to have a phone.
I actually still have 2 of those 990fx boards, I’m still running an fx8350 and 9590 on two of my small scale Minecraft servers I host for my buddies. But yeah the only decent pricing I’ve found on mo-boards is via surplus. I HIGHLY recommend looking at surplus right now. I bought two two super micro boards coupled with 24 core EPYC cpus for under 900 dollars, about the best price I’ve found. Of course if you don’t need server solutions maybe not the best option for you. But I’ve seen some solid mid tier gaming systems running on older Xeon e-5 chips so some things are still possible. Just depends on your application for them.
@@johnmichaels4330 nah, the United States banks and corporations are just completely negligent when handling money. That’s why the world is looking to separate from the US dollar. They know another mismanagement of funds (which is inevitable) will cause ANOTHER global financial crisis…probably much worse than 2008. Corpos panicked during the pandemic and the government gave them money to prevent collapse since they spent it all on stock buybacks…and that’s exactly what they’ve done again. They’d rather fire you and I, give themselves bonuses and golden parachutes, then convince you it’s anyone except for them. It’s a house of cards built on monumental amounts of debt and imaginary money. It doesn’t matter who’s in charge because the financial sector has free reign to plunge our economy once again. I mean, you’re literally seeing it now with the prices of new pc components. Businesses have free reign to charge an arm and a leg while consumer credit debt rises into the trillions.
@@johnmichaels4330 This inflation is being called "Inflation of the Greedy". There's no reason for this outrageous raise in the prices in the post-Covid era. They just steal us more and more.
@@johnmichaels4330 numnuts we’re literally 4 presidents for 4 in a row hitting the money printer. Including papa trump. Take off the rosé tinted glasses.
I can see another trend going on with these. It looks like in another couple of generations the motherboard heat sinks will block out the sun. Seriously, I'm curious. Does anyone encounter problems fitting in the CPU heatsink without these giant blocks interfering?
Yes. And i made such a big mistake to once go away from my Noctia, have not bought another CPU cooler since around 2005 made mistake with BeQuit. It's so fucked up to put this cooler on the CPU and in the case because screws are blocked. Give me Noctua, they know how to design an easy installable fan.
@@DGneoseeker1 Well it was a millimeter tight setting with normal RAMs. If i had any kind of cooler or RBG on them i'm sure i would feel very sorry. Bad again i blame it on the cooler manufactorer. I went back in History via TH-cam and find that they use exactly the same design for 15 years now as their premium system. Just changes the screws a little bit. It is lazy and fucking overpriced when you consider that they tell you R&D is so hard and cost money, but they never lower their prices. Fuck this whole industry. Hope my system will be useable for the next 8 years. I'm just a programmer.
@@SHW5010 There's nothing wrong with powerful processors. if you don't understand what an i9 Raptor Lake is capable of, that's on you. Not all wants the toys from AMD, some of us need a CPU that will do multiple things well for a powerful workstation. Try working with Resolve Studio or Premiere with a 7950X vs a 14900K. That will tell you all you need to know.
I remember buying H series motherboards for 1150/1155 for extreme budget builds for like 40$. while I never expect to see that price for a new board again, its insane how much more they are.
But back then CPUs were consuming like 40 watts and were rated for 65. On AMD side, you could basically see modern motherboard market and by that I mean cheap boards with craptastic VRMs that can't remotely handle power demands, terrible cooling, underdeveloped UEFI and so on. To get perfectly functional AM3+ PC you needed to spend quite a bit of money on board with good VRMs just for using with stock speeds (even more so if you wanted to run 220 watt chips, which in reality were 260-280 watt). If you wanted to overclock, besides Giga 970 UD3P everything else was 200+ USD and if you wanted something that overclocked really well it was 400+ USD. Now CPUs consume even more power if not limited and we pay higher prices just to run PC at stock speed. The real enemy is growing wattage of CPUs and frankly it needs to stop. 65 watts with 95 watt boost is perfectly fine, if chip is too crap with those limits, it just shouldn't exist.
@@MJ-uk6lumy man I'd be totally fine to go back to the pre UEFI bios days, like 90% of bios today are stupidly cluttered with settings hidden behind a dozen menus and some random marketing gimmick names for certain features.
Fed up with mobo prices nowadays. Totally agree with you, a board should simply do its job of interconnecting components. Perhaps some cool features on higher end ones, but that's it. The rest is bs. Thanks for your always brutally honest videos bro 👌🏻
Guys in America are being hit with much higher prices than us in the UK for motherboards for us. It’s the other way round CPUs are the most expensive, probably double that what they are charging in America. I have had CPUs imported from the states to the UK for cheaper than I can get one here.
Back in the early 2000s boards were like $80, they had basiclly no color on them and looked like a pcb out of a radio, single layer, heat sinks that looked like chunks of a car radiator a d all the components were placed onto the pcb by hand using Chinese labour that cost 50 cents an hour
There was a time when a motherboard could be a big factor in the performance of the system, since the chipset contained a DRAM controller and was connected to the CPU bus. Memory controllers have been integrated in PC CPUs for a long time now and CPUs even have some PCIe lanes and other components, so a lot less depends on the chipset.
Jay thank you for making this video! My last build I did was of Z77/Z87 era and have spent the last few months slowing buying parts for my new 13th gen build. Back in the day a $300 motherboard was top of the line with every feature you could want and need and you could actually make it personal with color options, not just black or white and not everything had to look more gaming looking with the more features you wanted. I hope manufacturers watch your video and actually listen.
@@pyromethious I did for 10 years, and I think that should really show how infrequently people do really need to upgrade opposed to the frequency that manufactures persuade us we need to. But that also can be based off use case .In the last I would say few generations at least from intel, it’s the first time to actually upgrade which is why I’m building a new build. Because since the introduction of sandy-bridge it’s the change we have had making it worth while. To each their own. GPU’s are a different conversation.
Definitely agree , I've seen a sharp rise in Motherboards with there being nothing to cover the basic build for people.. most people want a home computer to do their average daily work plus something they can play their favourite computer game in the evening.. The cost of building a basic system here in Australia with a suitable GPU for 1080P gaming is approaching the $1200 AUD .
this has been doing my head in, im looking to build a new PC to replace my old i7 8700k build, and if im remembering correctly the motherboard i have in it was considered about mid to high end and cost around $200 to $300 AUD, and now to get similar features (power and reset physical switches, q-code reader, bios flashback button e.t.c), i need to spend $700 to $900 AUD which costs the same or more than the 7800X3D i want to buy.... its just insane
The q-code display started out as a high end niche feature. At the time q-code came out all the other motherboards had just speaker beep codes for diagnosing boot errors. To be perfectly honest, it is still a niche feature that a vast majority of people would never use - I have built 8 systems in the past 8 or so years and I have never once had an issue that a q-code reader would have solved.
FANTASTIC video. You nailed it here. There is no "value" version of anything at the moment, it's all such a con. The PC industry needs a reality check. Great piece you have done here.
Hate to say it, but that's a lot of gamers for you. You can still buy a nice Z790 Wifi board for about 250 or so, if not even less. Nobody forces anyone to buy that silly 800+ $ crap.
I've been running the cheapest x570 for a few years now, Gigabyte x570 UD... I think it was like $120ish. It felt bad buying bottom tier... but it's 100% functional and never let me down. Good purchase.
the x470 Gigabyte gaming wifi 5 is decent and the other one I have is X570 Gigabyte Aorus elite +wifi. both were less than 160 CAD used(250+ new ... still decent). both are the top end chipset with many additional features .new boards adding only pcie 5.0 or extra chipsets are super silly to have such a price increase.
When I built my Ryzen 1600 system in 2018, the motherboard only costed by $68, and the only probelm I've ever had was that it didn't have a second M.2 slot... so I payed 12 dollars to buy a M.2 to PCIe x4 adapter. And I could've gotten cheaper if I didn't care about looks
@@jakob_z Word. My only complaint is my x570 only has 1 m.2 slot like yours. PCIE 4.0 has been 100% worthless to me. A x470 with a second m.2 would have been cheaper and better for my uses... although 16gigs of 3600 dual channel ddr4 has been 😙👌 perfecto.
I remember when Fry's electronics had weekly specials where you buy a processor & motherboard combo and with the discount it was like you paid full price for the cpu but the motherboard was free.
@@justinvanhorne9958 Would you mind explaining the context of what you're talking about in your comment a bit more? I'm afraid I just don't quite understand exactly what you are talking about.
You from Houston??? Man we had the most huge Fys electro... it was so fun to walk in And.... Yes the Processor, mobo, memory deals were insane... as in. You were not looking at all to buy anything.. but you could not let the deal slip
Hey Jay, I think what catches so many of us out is just how vocal these brands are about what features are on their boards but say nothing about what kind of audience that specific product is aimed at. It'd be nice if you made a video breaking down the different parts and features found on modern motherboards and explained which ones are relevant and why, and what kind of demographic would be interested in them. Haven't seen anyone else doing it like that and It'll probably help clear up a few misconceptions people have when entering the hobby.
I upgraded to an x670e board and 7950x in large part for quad m.2 drives in addition to some of the other x670e specifics, the pcie gen 5 doubles chipset bandwidth and guarantees that the board will live to the end of AM5 socket as a good useful board. I value data storage, run multiple boot drives and make heavy use of them for code compiling, video transcoding and storage, in addition to a massive 3tb+ steam library.
@@WhisperingDeath You can probably get 2-digit 7 segment displays for half of that. Steve at Gamers Nexus was right in saying that the lower tier MoBos these days don't have the features (like a 7 segment display) that would be of benefit for their target audience, which is typically first-time/novice builders.
The cheapest alternative is 8 red LEDs, each displaying one bit of the post code directly. Still needs the bus interface/chipset pins that provide the 8 bit value, then maybe a chip to amplify the current strength from a few mA to the 20mA needed by low end indicator LEDs (each). Human decoding will be slightly more work, and the postcode table in the BIOS manual will be wider to spell out R_RR R__R instead of B9.
I don't like mobos not having it and I don't recommend mobos without it. I may have bricked a $450 mobo without it and it made troubleshooting a breeze.
Great video. You hit the nail on the head Jay. These companies are doing this because "they can" no other reason at all. They push up their margin because people keep paying for it. Same as GPUs..
@@kingeryck1 That must stop, the same with Software, requirements, licensing models, etc... I'm moving from macos and windows to linux on apple hardware to stay away from the trend...
I'm glad that Jay is also covering this, same way Steve [GN] is. This has been annoying me for the past several years and is perhaps one the biggest reasons why I haven't built/upgraded my PC since 2015. There's no motherboard out there that I feel is worth buying, none of them seem to be on par or much better than my decent motherboard from 2015. Sure SLI isn't a thing anymore, but other useful features like the error code panels are essential for folks building at home. I hleped my pal build a few years back and it was tricky fixing issues without one.
my aio cooler cracked a seal and killed my PSU not long ago and I was kind of forced to upgrade my 10 year old system. Shopping for the right mobo was just awful. I remember looking at what was available last time I needed a new one and it was so easy to get something with enough i/o. Nowadays that's a premium? Like they've gone backwards. Good luck getting everything hooked up if you have more than a keyboard and a mouse.
@@pilsplease7561 this one was pretty good. had it for 8 years. All in all it was a good purchase. The advantage of water cooling is that you can pull fresh air directly over the cpu rad instead of getting secondhand air from the gpu. Not necessarily cooling effectiveness.
Cannot agree more to this topic. Thanks for making a video about it! I think these prices are bad for the PC market itself, as they drive more ppl away from building their own dream PCs.
This is why I love microcenter's cpu+motherboard bundles/open box section. I've gotten some great deals with mobos thanks to them. Current pricing is nuts otherwise.
Same here, I love Microcenter. I also had the Gigabyte FX motherboard he is talking about, it's still chugging along. I did pick up the X570S MAG TOMAHAWK at with the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X and I love the combo. Hassle free and works great. I'm very happy to have a Microcenter 10 miles from my home.
And are those MBs the same as they sell separately? Because many companies have their special bioses where half of settings (especially OC) is missing, that's why MB taken out from some DELL or HP PC is mostly worthless if you don't want it just as office PC.
Thank you Jay for pointing this out. I think a lot of people have gotten numb to inflated pricing. I also agree completely with everything you said in this video. It's arrogance of the manufacturers to keep the pricing of a motherboard way above reasonable pricing. Just like team green is learning, consumers will eventually dictate reasonable pricing, with allowing stores to keep plenty of inventory. Aka not buying their shhhhhtuf. Thanks for continuing to educate what common sense consumers should consider before blowing their wad prematurely, on overpriced wares. I've been an ROG fan since the crosshair III. It's sad to think, I simply can't afford to be an ASUS consumer anymore, and I'm a 50 yo.
yeah I mean if they are going to have the balls to ask for more for a motherboard they should be giving you more like that motherboard shown at 4:28 you get more ram slot more cpu's sockets and more pci-e slots unlike the pointless motherboard for 1200 and it has one cpu socket and four ram slots and two pci-e slots it's like why would it have to cost that much for that pathetic allowance of features🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Team green (Nvidia) is learning? Uh… did you see Nvidia's quarterly earnings. They're doing more than fine merely missing their RECORD revenue by 20%. They made record revenue during the pandemic. They have GPUs that are in a league of their own. What the hell did they learn?
It'll never come back down in pricing because people continue to pay it and don't care. That's the problem. Blame them, not the company because they want more profits. Blame the idiots paying these ridiculous prices.
Everyone is lied to about how much performance they need to play games. I run helldivers 2 on a gtx 980 on an ultrawide at medium. People will say that card was unusable 4 years ago. 11 years and it still works fine. Only upgrading soon because the true EOL is like 2 years from now and prices are falling a little
My first true gaming PC that I built myself, was a Pentium 4. The motherboard I bought was the first that moved from Rambus to DDR… it cost me about $100 bucks. This was an expensive board. I had gotten AMD boards for $50-$75 dollars. The cost of PC parts, most especially GPUs, just blow my mind…
Almost always bought basically the cheapest possible motherboard with the features I wanted (generally meaning having 4 memory slots and such) and never really had any problems because indeed as long as you can plug in what you need then that's that. Never understood the crazy-priced ones.
up to a point they used to make some sense when they were the only chipsets for overclocking and you could actually wring out 20% + overclocks. Anymore when at best you're going to get something like a 10% overclock anyways it doesn't make any sense to do anything besides just buying the cheapest thing possible that's going to do what you want it to
Until you buy one with terrible VRMs that can't handle CPU in games at stock speed without severe throttling. Then you realize that maybe expensive boards aren't all that dumb after all.
@@trulsrohk1 Today's CPU's are now pre-overclocked, so there's no need to go there today. Any meagre gain you might get will be immediately depressed by the significantly extra power/energy usage/costs required.
If the motherboard manufacturers would replace the 12-phase 1920-vintage VRM with a 2-phase 2011 VRM they would improve efficiency, reduce cost, free up board space, and eliminate the single-FET destroys CPU failure mode.
It's frustrating too, because I was helping my friend spec out a potential build in the future and he's just drawn to the x670-e Strix and asks why I didn't suggest that over the b650 TUF. I gave him a tired look and said "Because you'd be paying twice as much for basically no meaningful improvement to put into a case that's going to have a tinted glass panel."
@@GodDragonLich Not to mention that the friends questioned was “Why this over that?” It’s good to have a friend who - as you said - knows what they’re talking about, but I will add that said friend shouldn’t be afraid to be honest and tell you when something is just a crap idea and there’s better options for you … but will support you even if you choose the crappy option anyway.
@@iamstd2 All I do is give advice. It’s up to you to take it or not. If we’re close enough friends, I’ll tell you you’re an idiot for not listening, but I’d still help you build the thing. 😂
This was an important video to make. Thank you for addressing this issue. How tf did we get from $70 motherboards to $250+? 15:55 EXACTLY! THANK YOU! 16:34 Artificially inflated, yeah.
Most underrated motherboard currently has got to be the proart x670E creator wifi, a good $500+ cheaper then the "extreme extreme " with pretty much all the same stuff
Completely agree with this, the prices have gone nuts. I’ve always bought ASUS in the past, but I find now it confusing to know which is their top of the line motherboard as there as some many SKUs, nor easily compare with competitors. Also motherboards seem to have gone M.2 crazy. Even E-ATX boards seem to only have 2 PCI slots, but a million M.2 slots and using a M.2 will reduce the PCI slots speed by a half. The size of graphics cards has killed the number of PCI slots which is a shame.
dude you're overreacting. m2 slots are a win, because it means having less cables. right now i only have the mobo connector, cpu conector and gpu connector installed in my case. the less cables the better. love the m2 slots. they are a massive win. who the fuck goes sli/crossfire anyways dude? i do agree with your last sentense though, these gpus are fucking huge. kinda makes me not want to upgrade.
@@deathrager2404 well SLI/crossfire basically doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for a while, so aside from fairly niche components which use pci-e slots, the only common use for them today is soundcards and/or solid state storage (which is also becoming less common with m.2 slots).
The Q-Code thing isn't even an expensive thing to add, yet if you want it, you have to shop in the $300+ category for something that should be widely available on midrange boards.
My first build was an Z97X-UD5H from Gigabyte with and 4790k. This motherboard had an M.2 PCiE Slot and a Q-Code Reader an dedicated Power Button on the board, dual BIOS, 6 Fan Headers and it cost like 150 Euros back than. It was pretty much Highend in my opinion but also affordable. Nowdays i got an B550 Pro from gigabyte and ill dont got Dual Bios, no Q-Code Reader, no Power Button and it is pretty much Mid Range for the same price (inflation adjsuted)
I think choosing the right motherboard is arguably now the hardest part of a build. Trying to get a decently priced motherboard with a Q code display is really tough. The manufacturers have so many different ranges which in its self must increase cost, not to mention keeping on top of the software.
Motherboard features that I look for are bios flashback, dual bios would be nice, I actually really like the Q code readouts, and I will look for reviews on how well the motherboard handles power delivery.
One thing I would like to see is BIOS upgrades that **don't** f**k around with your existing settings (that means *YOU*, MSI) just because they decided to grovel before Microsoft rather than consider the needs of their customers. As in, if I have (in)Secure Boot DISabled, it should stay that way, and if the rarely-used MSWin partition is not currently the default boot (or for that matter, isn't in the list of active UEFI boot options at all), then do NOT switch it to the primary boot option.
I started building computers back in the late '90s. Back then you basically had a choice between Pentium 3, Celeron, athlon, and duron. Yeah, you didn't have a lot of options, but it was kind of nice to be honest 🙂
Ah, the memories. The 90's into the early 00's were great for pc builders. The increases in computational power was exponential from year to year. Built my first pc in the mid 90's, a 75 Mhz Pentium. By the end of the decade 2 GHz cpus were knocking at the door.
LOL, we had a system running on a 8088 processor that my dad bought in '87, we used it for ten years in which time most of my friends got a computer that would run on windows 3.1 and where my best friend's dad bought a computer that would run windows 95!! The WOW! factor of the new computers in those days had far more impact than the machines we see coming out these days.
@@gags730 ROFL! We had a service where we could call into an internet service using the phone line where the modem would dial a number and we couldn't receive any phone calls...
Even better when the early Celerons were notorious for being able to easily overclock to the moon, eg. you could OC a Covington or Mendocino-era Celeron to the speeds of the higher-end P2s and P3s that were out at the time, granted that doesn't necessarily mean they performed better, eg. the previous XOC record holder was an FX-8370 until an i9-13900K broke that record in October of last year, and Bulldozer/Piledriver silicon was never a very strong performer in its day vs. its direct competition from Intel, although it could OC to ridiculous heights.
The timing on this hits me hard, as I've been taking an initial look at starting a new build. I haven't shopped motherboards for a gaming box since 2017, and just seeing so many mobos starting around $250-$300 (and climbing) shocked me. Clearly I've been ignoring pricing outside of the graphic card market. As you put it, there's something nuts about potentially spending more money on the motherboard than the processor itself!
I have only bought 2 prebuilts, but just this week i spoiled myself with a new MOBO and CPU. Its funny cause i bought the exact same MSI mpg EDGE he has here with an i5 13600k and its great. Over the past 2 years since i bought my second IBP prebuilt i have replaced everything except the GPU. It was surprisingly easy, but working with such expensive fragile parts adds allot of doubt.
I find it crazy frustrating. I would like to go for a build with a phanteks ultra pro to connect with my msi RS pro. The website of phanteks said i needed mystic lights. When i looked for msi mobo's with mystic lights, i couldnt find the RS Pro but when i checked in the manual of the RS pro, i did see mythic lights. Its so confusing. I compared it with a manual of a mobo that according to msi did have mythic lights and i saw NO difference. What is going on here??
Shocking how things have changed so quick. My build was around 700 to 800 (i didn't really keep track of it) when I built it, but nowadays thats the price of only one component!
Going "overkill" on the motherboard or video card is where much of the price increases come from. Top end consumer CPU in 2017 was in that $500 range. Top end consumer CPU did go up from there, but double the number of CPU cores will push up prices a bit, or you can stick to an 8-core CPU(ignoring those pathetic E-cores from Intel). Video cards are quite a bit more, but 8GB VRAM cards in 2017 to 24GB VRAM cards that are double the physical size. But, going to something like a RTX 4090 seems a bit excessive.
It all started when Nvidia decided to price the GTX 580 at $499. I remember it vividly. Since then, price shot up. This isn't about supply chain, COVID, or inflation. It's artificial inflation prices as Jay pointed out.
@@allisknu11 The supply chain "issues" and the Flu were also examples of artificial inflation. -One is- Both are caused by everything being made in China (including that "bug").
Last September I replaced a six year old 6600K system with a 5600X/B550. The CPU cost £200 and the MB (MSI A Pro) was £85. Don't regret it at all. A month later replaced the 1060 with a 6700XT and don't regret that either. More than powerful enough for all I use it for including 1440p gaming.
My latest build is now 3 years old but I still remember the agony of comparing boards and their features. And yes, it is getting much much worse (doing builds since 1999). If only someone could scrape all the pecs, align them in a spreadsheet and show it to everyone Choosing a board would be reduced to filtering columns
Pc builders need to set a budget for each component and stick to it. I’m not spending more than $300 for a motherboard or $500 for a gpu. I’m not going to endorse the ridiculous prices component manufacturers are charging. And if I can’t get the parts at the price I want to spend, I’ll wait. As new tech comes on the market, older tech gets cheaper.
I'm at a point where the thing I might care most about when shopping for a motherboard is having lots of USB ports and m.2 sockets. Oh, and if I can avoid having a chipset fan, that's brilliant.
Absolutely this. I'm out of USB ports so I had to get a hub; turns out, I'm hot swapping the last port on the 4 (functionally actually 3) port hub. And storage? I have 4 or 5 drives and could definitely use another m.2.
That was really the only reason I got my Asus ROG Strix B760-A motherboard, compared 8t to the price of the z790 stuff that was in the $300-400 range and was like nahh, just give me USB ports (for streaming) and make it white to match my build
Why in the world, would the manufacturers install non replaceable fan or a fan that is proprietary to the particular mother-board? It might make sense if they partnered with a company that focuses on fans, like Noctua, having them supply 25mm (or whatever size that is available, by itself)
@@superskrub4209 I have a hub, but that's just yet-another-hardware device laying next to the PC or resting on top of the PC or on the desk. I don't like the extra clutter. But yeah, I'm in the situation where I could use another hub already..
I still use a 4790k daily on a z97i itx motherboard. It cost 110€ back then. I thought it was expensive but I wanted the wifi, the usb 3, the overclocking and it even has an m.2 slot (in 2013). That thing was (and still is) awesome.
I used the same combination, the motherboard did not have a M.2 slot, nevertheless, I purchased a PCIE adapter and running the latest Samsung SSD 990 Pro 2TB on it on full speed. Most get confused about technical terms, DDR 5 can still not saturate a PCIE gen 3 slot; you will have the same speed as DDR 5, same with the latest GPU's. My reason to build recently a new system, is the 32 GB on RAM limitation that the old board has, nevertheless, the old Granny is still going strong without any hick-ups.
@@Pasi123 Then it might have been from 2014. It has been awhile ;) I just remember informing myself about it and thinking that i probably won't need it.
This video really helped me by the simple fact that you kept it conceptual, in spite of the examples given….I think this really made me a more shrewd shopper/builder
Thanks for addressing this issue. I haven't built a PC since 2016 or so. I started looking at current components available to configure a new build and was shocked at the prices of CPU and Board. Core i3 are selling at the price point of an unlocked i5 😅😅😅 ₹8000-12000 was the sweet spot for boards up untill a few years back, most people didn't need anything costly than that. Now it's just a mess.
Built mine in 17, after looking at current market I have decided to keep motherboard and CPU and just upgrade memory and GPU. Should be good for a few more years before it's totally obsolete and I can do it for like 350 bucks vs spending 2k just to be in the ballpark of a mud grade build. Unreal.
Got into pc Building when I was 13 years old, saved up from birthday money and Christmas money to build my own computer and made it happen with cheap / decent parts that lasted me 6 years. finally an adult at 26 with a decent job and everything sky rockets to the point I can’t make it as a hobby as I wanted to when I was younger. Life sucks
Manufacturers have increased cost while removing features. You used to need a sound card for good sound, then onboard sound got so good even audiophiles didn't need a separate card. But for my most recent build, the cheapest ATX mobo I could find was $220 and it uses an old bargain audio chip and doesn't even have enough ports for 5.1 sound and a mic.
Would you recommend the MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard? I dont wanna go overboard with a motherboard, but it's pretty much covering the bases with what else ive got selected for my build.
The 1080ti was costing 700$ at start. I bought it nearly 7 years ago. But the power of 4090 in term of cuda cores is 4.6x. So 1600$ is reasonable to me. 1200$ for rtx 4080. It is a prosumer card for video/rendering 3d/games. Adding inflation to that, 1200$ is the price.
Rtx 5090 32GB will be 1800$ at least and 1600$ for 24GB. This is my bet. But i will target probably a rtx5080 or 5080ti to replace my 1080ti that will have well served for 8 years in 2025. I bet rtx 5080 will be 1200$.
Couldn't agree more. My prior system was built on that MSI MPower board, and I really had to think on it because an over $200 mobo just seemed bananas to me. I made that system last for a long time. It was replaced by the current system with another MSI board that was slightly less expensive, but was at best a middle of the pack board (MSI MPG Gaming Plus) about 3 years ago. At this point it seems like I'll be back to buying used generation or two older stuff because I'm not going to pay $300+ for ridiculous RGB plate plastered motherboards. I want useful features, not fluff. I don't care about all the extras, I don't stare at my PC's innards all day. If my case doesn't have a window, I don't care. Mobo makers seem to be completely out of touch.
not to sound too "double tanjenty" here: I used to overthink my gamer PCs. Now I over think my car''s upgrades/mechanical stuff! I no longer plan on flushing my coolant every 6 months(in my Dodge Ram since its modern not classic) nor putting in liquid coolers in my gaming rig when it didn't come with one! That's obsessive these days I understand. The "extended" ATX is overkill I always insistred on those in my full towers for cooling. I understand from watching many of your vids and online research(Tom's Hardware and talking to Falcon-NW agents they seem more honest than most sales), Big mobos, this is unnessasary. I think, I thought, and I pondered on it, then thunk, and I'm done with it! guts are all I listen to now!
Preach!! I used to cringe at spending $130 on a mid-range motherboard. Yeah, there are (I'm sure) a handful of folks out there who will actually make use of some of the features of the high end boards ... but if you're not looking to overclock, you're not looking for OLED displays, etc .. why bother spending money on parts that aren't going to give you any performance gains while stripping your budget for the parts that WILL make a big difference? It's crazy.
Honestly the biggest thing I noticed when getting a new AM5 board was that hardly any boards offer enough full length - or even x4 PCIe slots and instead offer completely useless x1 slots.
Not really. Pcie wifi 6/6e works only on x1 slot. If your wifi nvme slot on the mb die then a pcie x1 is your only choice. If you don’t have it, the mb is RIP.
@@CC-gt3roWhat? That makes absolutely no sense to me. PCIe slot sizes are fully downwards compatible. You can use a 4x card in a 8x or 16x slot no problem. Same for 1x and 2x.
@@mechadeka the wifi component can stop working, or if the motherboard has no wifi card slot pciexpress and you want futur wifi 7 for example. My mb has 7 years.
@@Minecraftrok999 Apparently that is not the case. Wifi pci card indicates they don’t work on slot other than pciexpress x1. I read that in reviews and mentioned by manufacturers. I haven’t tested it myself because i have a wifi car pciexpress slot and was able to upgrade to wifi 6/6e by removing the chip from the pciexpress x1 card Asus and connecting the external antennas directly to the motherboard. But i remember it is indicated the provided full pci card with the chip inside don’t work on slot other than pcie x1 and i have read that on two manufacturer Asus and Gigabyte because originally i bought an extension card for my pc that did have the motherboard wifi slot card but no card install. (First zen 1 asus crosshair 6 hero wifi ready)
Same thing with cars now. They are forced to come with so many unnecessary bells and whistles that it makes the price of a new car as much as a house used to be
I genuinely hadn't realized this was an issue for some -> I have a $120 motherboard from a few years ago when I was upgrading my CPU from 4th gen to 10th gen and absolutely refuse to pay more than ~$200 for a motherboard lol
Lots of love to Phil for suffering through the era of IEEE 1394 as I did. One of my first computer builds included a drive bay mounted firewire (and other input ports) plate.
When I did my first build, 1394 didn't even exist, and to this day I never even used it when it was around. It was a total waste of tech. It tried catching on but USB was more widely adopted.
@@SyntheticFuture Cue the clueless me, hopping on to Digital 8 like sure it's digital both on the storage and the connection side, it shouldn't be real time transfer... right? Nope :D
I miss all those expansion slots. I use my computer for many things, and it’s sucks to be hindered by lack of pcie slots. Thunderbolt helps, but it just ain’t the same as kitting your system out with multiple cards.
My m.2 memory DIED after 4years. Better than SSDs or HDDs my ass. Never again. They arent worth the price or hassle if they die as quickly as the other options. SSD for speed and HDD for storage. Easy to plug in 'n out. At best, M.2 is light weight and slim for short builds.
Basically confirmed all the reasoning I went through for the last 2 systems I built. I had been some years and I was just totally pissed off by what I was finding while looking for compatible parts for different CPU / mobo.
As I remember the prices started to go up since the motherboards / ram supporting the fancy RGB lightning, which I didn't want. Recently, my CPU burnt and I needed a new build. I decided to get a new DDR5 build as my old CPU model was pretty old. I tried to find some mid-tier motherboard at my local stores without RGB lightning and Wifi without luck, and finally got a flashy motherboard with some flashy RAM. I don't want bloated prices for light pollution. 😥
Same gripe. I don't want my PC making pointless light. I don't want to waste money on lights that I'm probably going to find distracting and leave off all the time when I'm too poor to afford the basic hardware I want.
I think at tops a motherboard should be 300. Their shouldn’t be motherboards that cost as the same as build. On a lighter note, I’d love to see a video of all the motherboards / systems you’ve used in the past Jay and what where some of your favorites! Some of the boards on display are works of art!
Inflation and price gouging aside, a motherboard is just a product like anything else, and like everything else its worth what people are willing to spend. Putting an arbitrary figure on a product type is illogical.
@@lolzlolz69 economics are not that simple. It would only work as you mentioned, if there were any substitutes and people would still buy the more expensive product. Motherboards don't have substitute products, and higher prices are translating in actual numbers: supply has gone up, but demand for pc components has gone down. If a market has a product with no substitute, the product has the flexibility to decide the price range, as consumers don't have any other alternative. I don't want to get to deep into economics, but the pc market is shifting heavily on new so-called para-substitutes: handheld pc gaming, laptop gaming, used components and so on. They are para-substitutes (and not true substitutes) because they are not part of the same category of products as motherboards, but they do potentially influence the supply/demand scheme long-term through the external influence.
@@A_d_e_k You're wrong about just about everything. Supply has gone down or stayed the same, but demand has gone way up since a lot of people got into pc gaming in the last 3 years. People deciding not to buy something doesn't mean demand went down. Either way whining about expensive motherboards that do exactly the same thing as the cheap motherboards is silly.
@@squidwardo7074 During covid demand grew. It went (and is still going) down after Covid. I don't even understand your point about demand not decreasing if people decide to buy something else, that's what demand in a pinch is.
Especially ASUS is really cheaping out on their motherboards. Prime in the beginning was a really solid quality mid range motherboard, these days it's the cheapest shit of all brands! TUF Gaming once came with 5 year warranty but these days it's a basic motherboard with marketing. At Strix it becomes what 15 years ago was called Deluxe. ASUS is in a fast decline. It's the brand to avoid in terms of value.
Id love to see a basic board get released that just have super basic features, green PCB, super tough power circuitry, minimal heatsinks and a low price. Id love that TBH.
Its so bad at the moment that I would be happy to pay more for a green mobo that didn't have rgb led, panels and god knows what...but did have extra slots. Maybe I'm old school but I can't really stand mobos that looks like the dash of a luxury car or unicorn puke.
Honestly, I bought the ROG STRIX Z690-E GAMING WIFI for a few features that stood out. I wanted the most USB inputs as possible because I use almost all of them, and the Z690-E is almost unrivaled in the amount of inputs that are available. Being a new build I also wanted to take advantage of all the next gen features like NVMe M.2, PCI-E Gen4/5, DDR5 RAM, WIFI 6E. It was a good to upgrade from my Z97 Chipset, I just wish I would have waited for the 13th Gen Raptor Lake CPU, I ended up with the 12th Gen Alder Lake 12900k. I paid around $500 for the ROG STRIX Z690-E GAMING WIFI.
Well done Jay, you and the team have done a good thing with this and your last video. Content that shows the problem with modern PC component manufacturers and exploitation. Style over Function only for the additional cost!
Did you find any difference in performance say compared Z to B series boards? Or different Z series boards like MSI PRO Z690-A vs MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk? thinking to build one and got stuck at Mobo! CPU would be 13600k!
I've used ASRock for my last 3 builds, their mid tier stuff has been great value propositions and I like their UEFI, it's very functional. Don't see them mentioned by many people, would love to see someone with more experience with other brands comment on the pros/cons
I've used ASRock on my last five builds. One 9th gen i5, one B450 and three B550 boards. Only two were purchased new, and none were more than $150 shipped. My last three are all 5600X processors with 16gb of 3200 RAM. I don't need anything more, even for gaming at this point for myself or my son.
@@Kyle1444 they did, yes. I was a little nervous when I built the ITX 9th Gen, but obviously I went back to them four more times. I had been an gigabyte & MSI mobo guy for years. I still love my two MSI laptops, and will get a new one later this year for work again.
When speccing mine, I started with the chipset I wanted then looked for the cheapest board that carried it. The ASrock b650e riptide was the top pick until the in-stock date pushed back an extra month, so went for an open box NZXT N7 b650e as it was next cheapest in stock 😂
It's crazy how quickly the prices jumped. My system is on a Z390 Aorus Master, I believe it was 259 when I got it. The Z790 Aorus Master is nearly 500. Double the price in a few years is crazy.
i picked up the same feature set on a msi z790 w the q code for 500 cdn (400usd) wifi all only con was the back up gpu testing port was hdmi not DP. I'm so glad I skipped spending 1000 usd on the Asus EXTREME roG one.
The worst part of buying a motherboard anymore is getting a digital readout for debugging. It’s so useful and so cheap to add for the manufacturer, yet you basically can’t get one without spending $350+ Lights blinking different colors isn’t user friendly at all, so if there’s an issue with my folks motherboard, it would be nice if they could tell me an error code, rather than trying to find and decoder the blinks
It's been a long time since I've built my own system I'm researching now. Everything is ridiculously expensive! Motherboards like like spaceships ready for battle. Nothing costs under $500 (I'm in Canada so it's all 30% more than USA). A video card like an RTX4090 ($2,200 CDN) is what a complete high end system would have cost not too long ago. edit: just wait until Intel ATC12VO and another bump in cost once what were once PSU duties get added to motherboards.
You mean like motherboards now having to have the 5V regulator, and power outputs, onboard in order to power SATA/IDE drives, case USB hubs, and similar devices?
Cheapest RTX4090 I could find in the Netherlands would cost you $2650 CDN. Im researching/contemplating a new build aswell. Almost made all the decissions on what parts to buy, but im unwilling to spend the money. Lets not forget that the industry struggles to give us quality for our money. SSD with firmware problems, $1000 graphic cards that are unable to run 4k properly, inflamable gpu cables, overheating cpu’s, noisy psu’s and the list goes on.
Well part of your problem is looking at a 4000 series card, all the prices are stupid. You can get a 3070 ti for under 800 bucks new, even better used. And btw I'm using USD, not sure what that is in Canadian
@@ToTheKneeProductions so your advice is to spend $800 usd on a graphics card with 8gb VRAM when building a new gaming system in 2023? Im surprised you dont reccomend people to go and buy a used gtx1050, im sure its cheaper than a 3070ti , problem solved. (Read with sarcasm)
I was pretty happy with my Ryzen 5 & B450 Aorus Pro build several years ago (still using). Recently, I though it might be time to upgrade but just looking at what motherboards and CPUs have become in the last few years, I've lost interest in building another PC. 😕😟
Better to upgrade parts every couple years than hold on to a system till total obsolescence. Either way you’re spending a lot but at least with occasional upgrades spread over time you keep your system relevent and your older still relevant components still have some re-sale value that you can claw back on for new things you bought. Hurts less than finding £1000 for a new system all at once.
I most recently built a mini-itx system and was astounded by the pricing, but assumed that £320 for a motherboard was the mini-itx tax. My previous build from back in 2013 used a £100 discounted motherboard and did all I asked of it.
Itx Premium on top of the current prices is completely bonkers. I looked for AM5 boards and decided to just get an AM4 one with a 5700X and wait for some time...
Especially with having most features inside the CPU and the motherboard chipset making no difference. When AM4 was "new" you would find B350 for way less than 100€ offering the same as X370 boards. This continued with B450 / X470. Still you could run your high end CPU with B350. Many makers also did offer rich OC options for these boards. Premium boards for 300€ existed, but other than fancy PWM and cooling they did not realy offer more. Intel was a bit late to (re)join mITX at that time, but the same logic can be applied later on for DDR4 "generations". Then the shortage came in. Suddenly you could sell your 3 year old used board for double the price. The companies adjusted their product line. Cheap boards were phased out and premium products were refreshed with higher price tag. There is almost no reason to have the top chipset on an mITX board. The only reason I can think of, is you want to use two m.2 slots with maximum speed. But sadly the boards with middle class chipsets are just as expansive, as the top ones used to be, 3 years ago.
I need a motherboard that supports DDR5 rams, LGA 1700 Z790 for the cpu and a 4080. Found MSI Z790 DDR5 tomahawk. Would that motherboard be a good purchase or am I missing a better value board? I am open to recommendations but I don't feel confident in ASUS motherboards.
The motherboard manufacturers have all seen what Nvidia got away with and decided they're going to do that too.
Every industry is doing it right now.
Nvidia has completely different supply/demand dynamics for GPUs which is a FAR more in-demand component that also is upgraded a whole lot more
@@Sandriell $500 toilet paper.
I'm glad @JayzTwoCents did this video. The prices for components are ridiculous - and Nvidia deserves all the hate that we give them.
Nvidia is still competing with the 2nd hand market of their old gpus just like apple
I paid $180 for my B 550 when it launched. That is double of what I paid for my board 6 to 7 years ago. Back when Jay started the channel and ran AMD. He would recommend $60 - $70 boards and I bought $80 for some extras. Now $80 gets you the box and installation guide.
😂👍
@@jelly.1899 for 75% PC users is useless buy mainboard that costs more than 150$
I bought a Z270 motherboard in 2017 (mistake) for 130€. I remember thinking that this was insane for a motherboard. now 130€ is ultra budget.
atleast its $110 with inflation meybe XD
i paid $104 dollars for a 660. they don't have to cost that much.
Finding a half decent motherboard with the I/O and features you want while not breaking the bank has never been so hard istg
AM4 used deals ~$100, thats enough imo. I bought so many in the past half a year. flagship X570 even.
@@yukisnoww sure, but for AM5, the prices have fone crazy ! 300 bucks gets you barely more than a mobo with a PCB not made of wood.
@@lamikal2515 I think u dont get Jay's point either. I just looked at pcpartpicker, $180-$300 seems to be a sweet spot ,theres so many great boards for the price, b650 to x670e, matx to ATX, but people just want the flashiest. Don't overexaggerate.
@@yukisnoww No, we don't want crap VRM implementations or lack of VRM cooling. It's not always about flash unless you are an RGB snob. Get your facts straight. We just get stuck with RGB because all the Twitch/Kick streamers want to showcase their builds.
@@lamikal2515 Not really. ASRock B650 can be had for $120 and can handle 170W CPU no problem.
Me: I don't watch TV.
Also me: watches a 20 minute retrospective on motherboards
Me too!
You get to watch what you want, TV is overrated boomer technology nowadays
This is the new tv. However old tv will not die. Radio is still here.
@@kingelingoverrated? Ok mate. You are a boring person. Tv is far from overrated. You can watch almost every tv channel with an app now. And you have more control over what you watch. And you still need a tv to play your consoles.
Tv will be around long after you and me. Smart tv
@@KingDarkOne1996Why so triggerd lol
The trend with mobos, over the last bunch of years, is that the install guide went from being a book explaining every feature to a pamphlet that basically says, "Any questions go to our website." Hmm I'm building a computer so getting on the internet to look up a solution for an install problem is kinda a bit difficult with computer parts spread all over my floor at that moment.. Thanks.. :)
Where I work at 7-eleven, we still run the exact same profit margin as in 2009, but our prices have gone up 2.5X _minimum_ since then. (Alot of stuff is over 3x).
Inflation is literally twice as bad as the media is making it out to be, and this is the result.
If you're paying less than 2x for a motherboard, you are getting an incredible deal...you should be paying 3X, if not 4X considering the higher inflation of the relevant materials.
I miss real manuals too.
To quote once legendary developer on the decline, “Don’t you guys have phones?!”
@@ChadDidNothingWrong Yes, "The Media" .... nothing screws up your argument faster than blaming "The Media" for it. Seriously, go to the central bank data and look up the inflation data. It's not that hard.
It's also 2023 and everyone has a phone thats connected to the internet right?
Current AM5 motherboards have fewer PCIe slots, fewer SATA ports, and fewer audio jacks (sometimes only 2 or 3!). The improved aesthetics were nice for a bit but it's time to get back to the basics - connectivity!
EDIT: For those wondering why more PCIe slots are needed - 10 Gig NIC (the boards that have it integrated are way more expensive than just using a PCIe card), video capture cards, etc.
Plus if you want to make up for the low end boards skimping on audio jacks and SATA ports, that's more cards you need to add.
AM5 is not alone in having fewer PCIe slots. That's universal now. For the most part people don't have additional cards to install other than the GPU. Some people, such as myself, have 2 or 3 cards needed to be installed, and it's frustrating, I agree, that options are more limited now.
The missing PCIe slots have become m.2 sockets. You can even get adapters that let you plug a PCIe card into an m.2 socket.
I'll actually have to get a pcie sata card because there's too few on am5 boards that are acceptably priced
@@dominikbehrendt1934 Delock has a number of HBA cards but note that none of them have controllers that are more than x2 so the total bandwidth for any HBA card is only 2000 MB/s total unless you can find a card with more than one controller chip, the SilverStone ECS07 is also another option its an M.2 x4 card with an x2 controller and 5 SATA ports but fits in an M.2 instead of a PCI-E slot
I'd gladly take more PCIe slots even if it meant they run at slower speed allowing for more efficient use of the PCIe 5 standard via bifurcation.
Also more SATA ports... preferably 8 of them.
You actually don't have to go that far back in time. The B450 Tomahawk that was highly regarded as one of the best AM4 boards of that generation had a cost of ~120$ brand new. And this was in the middle of the pandemic.
it's interesting, when i built my PC with i7 4790, i bought a mobo for 50 euros, MSI B85, ofcourse no OC support, but man finding a B mobo now, is like 3x more
@@Hagia-Sofia-Must-Be-Restored well I bought the B450 Tomahawk MAX and I have OC and everything. Serves me well for 3 years now.
Am4 motherboards were literally going for next to nothing during the pandemic
Used that is
@@derruhl5982 Nop.
As I said a BRAND NEW B450 Tomahawk was going out for ~120$.
I remember buying an entry level motherboard just a few years ago for 70 bucks. It doesn't have a whole lot of features, especially no gimmicky ones, but it does the job. Enough connectivity, 2 M.2 slots. No RGB headers, though, but who cares.
I hate the whole led rgb stuff. It’s such a waste. Why are we looking at the computer anyways. My gpu came with leds so I turned them red so it doesn’t bother my vision at all
@@OneNidim Yeah literally EVERYTHING has to have RGB nowadays. Motherboards, RAM, Fans, GPUs, RGB strips in cases, Headphones, Microphones, Mice, Keyboards, Coolers, and even stuff like freaking mousepads, routers, etc. I don't get it either.
I noticed that there is no entry level anymore. X670E is only 28% more than a crippled B650 board. So what is the point of the B650, B650E and X670, if X670E is basically the same cost???!
@@OneNidimjust looks good. Almost like a center piece for a room.
This is why I wanted my Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX X670. It has no RGB, Super Robust and overbuilt, affordable for its Class, over built cooling systems for its VRMS and lots of storage slots for m.2s because I love having lots of storage
Best video in a long time. It is about time somebody starts using their platform to acknowledge all these abusive consumer sales trends.
Supply wouldn't be kept up without demand.
I'm glad this video was finally made. I have been saying this for 3 years. Every company has used excuses to artificially inflate the pricing. When I got my ASUS TUF x570 motherboard about 3 years ago it's price was only just over $200 in Canada.. even threadripper was more affordable than what mainstream is now.
There's some pretty good deals going on for motherboards right now. Like here's one on Newegg Canada, ASRock b650m DDR5 for $160 CAD after rebate. I paid $130 CAD for my TUF b450m back in 2020, and with inflation is about the same.
100% agreed. Even 8 to 10 yrs ago, when the most expensive boards were in the high 200s, i was calling this garbage out.
Nowadays, it's gone completely nuts. They're adding in all sorts of low-cost useless components to the boards so they can inflate the price and their profit margins.
You can still get good MBs for $200. Chill my friend.
@@kutark 10 years that $200 got you top tier chipset, dual GB NIC, 3-4 PCIe x16 slots (x8 in x16 slot), 8-12 gen 3 SATA, 3 or more USB 2.0, at least 1 USB 3.0, 10+ USB on the back IO, and either debug LEDs, or bios readout displays. And baller status. Lol
Now, $200 gets you a mid/low end chipset, and barely enough IO to connect the basics.
That's only 150 usd how is that expensive?
I love how good content creators are trying to push and help people to buy what they NEED, and not what the companies are pushing, or just something that you can flex with, just because of the price tag.
Thank you!!!
You're like, the ONE person in this enitre comment section who got the point of the video...
might as well only eat rice and plain water bcs theyre sufficient
pride, aesthetic, looks etc also happiness, they improve your quality of life
@@iikatinggangsengii2471 not sure your comparison is correct. You need a diverse diet, but sellers want you to get stuff you do not need.
It feels more like going at the restaurant and you want the steak, but they only sell 3kg pieces, and you are not allowed to take home the rest or share
I’m brand new and looking to drop in the rabbit hole, anyone have some recommendations for channels? I’d appreciate it hella 😭
The thing I want to see them get back to is simplicity. I'm not looking at my PC when I'm using it, I'm looking at the monitor. Why in the heck do people want them lit up like it's Christmas? Give me components that are affordable and efficient. Take all the "fluff" out of it. I need a PC that does what it is built to do. It doesn't need to win fashion shows.
Mine sits on my desk because of my desk, I like it to look nice. But also, yeah, cheap utilitarian designs need to come back
I don't understand how that's still not a thing. I have a simplistic design set-up with no lights or anything.
@@Fxrrxt2x I know the simple parts with no lights and stuff are still out there, but they seem to be in the huge minority. For me, if it'll save me a few bucks on the build, take the lights off. The only reason my current build has any lights at all is because the $90 case was on sale for $55.
I’m annoyed that back motherboards all had LED post code display. Now motherboards can have RGB yet they might not even even have a light to help determine errors.
Lmao that's so true. I'm a newbie to the field and i got confused seeing an rgb or ever addressable rgb port but no LED code display
hey mobos used to beep at you that's all you needed ...Beep Codes
@@lewiscook3918 I, too, remember beep codes. AFAIK Gigabyte still uses them. If I were to build a new computer, a speaker header is actually a feature I would look for because it's a feature I actively use under Linux.
@@lewiscook3918 I still keep my old speaker from one of our first family PCs, a second hand Research Machines beige box, I use it in all my current main PCs, since even if they don't include one of the modern mini speakers in the motherboard box the board still has the speaker pins.
Frustrating for me these days is that it's hard to find motherboards with enough PCIe slots, as all the lanes have gone off to distant places like M.2 and Thunderbolt controllers. Finding a board with 2 16x slots is rare enough, most of the time the second full length slot is only 8x electrically. I know it's more of a niche use case, but some of us like to add stuff to our computers other than GPUs (high end networking, RAID controllers, etc.)
It is confusing when a pcie slot goes dead only to find that's normal because you are using a m.2 slot that uses up its resources.
Maybe you desire to have WiFi in your desktop PC, but you're not feeling like upgrading your entire setup every year to keep up with wireless network trends. Even upgrading a PCIe component every two years or so doesn't seem too crazy, but these days even being able to _fit_ it let alone find a board that even HAS an additional slot is indeed becoming a nightmare.
Server and workstation mobos...
That's because of CPU support. For example the AMD Ryzen 7xxx series only supports 24 PCIe 5.0 lanes. If you need more PCIe lanes, you need a workstation or server CPU.
@@Tempus0 Chipsets have PCIe lanes too
The real irony here is that if there weren’t thousands of content creators hyping up PC building, parts, frame rates, etc the manufacturers wouldn’t have the customer base to be able to get away with what they’re doing.
Content creators don't care about repercussions, they only care about the Google ad revenue gravy train
Then blame it on fanboys who only hype one brand. Slanted reviews are what cause over demand for any one product. Just look at the stupidly high prices of EK.
@@aleksandrbmelnikov, oh, I'm so glad someone else gets it. Thank you!
👍
@@M_CFVactually I believe the returns on that are dropping horribly so should be interesting to see who continues selling out and who realizes it's worth more to turn on cheap and shady business
I have been doing this for 30 years and to hear someone else say what I have been thinking is so refreshing. Thank you
Don’t be afraid to do more “cold hard truth” videos J, more truth like this is needed with how crazy priced electronics have become in not even 10 years. So…. It’s needed, and more valuable than you know, so again, keep it up, don’t pull any punches
I miss when boards standard for the current time was affordable and usually ranged around $80-$140
I built an AM4 system and got a Gigabyte Aorus M board for like $125 just a few years ago.....
who doesnt...
Or when you could spend 200$ on a motherboard and get pretty much every single feature you could imagine
I also remember when the best graphics cards on the market you can buy were $500 🙃
@@jamesg8246 with pcie 4?
I remember upgrading to X99 and thinking a $300 motherboard was expensive. It's insane where prices have gotten, and I still can't get 10 regular USB ports.
why would you NEED that when you can get a USB Hub though ?
@@brotherrogue2310 pcie lanes son.
@@brotherrogue2310 you’ve never played a flight sim have you?
@@Chrisp707- I caught ya drift
I had an X99 with 10 SATA ports sold it to friend that needed a new board and now looking back it was probably one of the last boards that had that many SATA ports maybe other than one of the X99 Rampage boards that had 12 SATA ports
Reminds me in particular of a lot of what's going on in the new car market, all the way from base models up.
Companies are no longer selling products for an owner to do work with, they are now selling subscriptions to a limited set of services... that an owner has to balance out by buying even more subscriptions to other competitors who offer the needed features. Owners can no longer get what they need out of any product they buy these days, because companies realized a long time ago that they can earn more off folks by stratifying the utility of any product or service amongst their competitors. They'll do this for as long as they can, make it so we spend more so that they can all earn more.
But this is not a new thing, after all it wasn't long ago where you might have had to buy some exorbitant cable plan in order to get the few channels you wanted, all the while wasting hundreds of dollars on channels you'd never ever need. I'm sure other folks can provide their own stories about this.
I remember back in 2018, you'd be able to get a really nice motherboard with future-proofed (for lack of a better term) features for $200 or less. PC gaming is starting to become a hobby for the rich.
always was son
so dont be poor
@Juan Shaft Patel don't be such a punt
@@juanshaftpatel7488 ok mr krabs
Yep, I built an AMD system R7 3700X on a Gigabyte B550. The board cost was like 100 bucks, and I can move into a r7 5700X. Which I will do when they come down in price.
I've been seeing this kind of trend ever since ddr4 *magically* didn't drop in price after it'd been out for a year. Setting new standards for how much the industry could gouge the customer.
Has been a while that rather than old products drastically dropping in price, they just release new products at higher prices. And not just for PC parts.
@@thenonexistingheroto be fair, technology is not obsoleted the way it was back in the day. DDR5 is not much better than DDR4
@@redlimes4808 I do suppose that's also true. Tech has become so good and fast that 2x or more performance isn't even noticable or needed by most people. High-end phones used to be much faster than anything else... but also still fairly affordable, going for like $600-$800 for a while. But now even mid-end phones are so fast most people won't even notice any difference with high-end phones. Even the starter level mid-end phones that go for like $300-$400.
@@thenonexistinghero I literally go for phones that are closer to 100 bucks each, forgo the case and if I drop it and break it and buy a new one I'm STILL paying less than somebody buying even a new 300-400 dollar phone every other year. I also don't see the point in having "gaming" phones or playing games on my phone anyway, if I'm sitting somewhere and need my phone to kill time I probably have my steam deck and can play "real" games anyway, and with the money I didn't pay extra for the phone I can easily afford a steam deck.
@@SherrifOfNottingham Never bought a phone in my entire life. Am using an old nokia as a morning alarm clock and watch mostly, maybe make a phone call a month. Never felt the need to have a phone.
That adjusted for inflation price on the 990fx board killed me on the spot, hard to believe we've had 30% inflation since I bought that exact board
I actually still have 2 of those 990fx boards, I’m still running an fx8350 and 9590 on two of my small scale Minecraft servers I host for my buddies. But yeah the only decent pricing I’ve found on mo-boards is via surplus. I HIGHLY recommend looking at surplus right now. I bought two two super micro boards coupled with 24 core EPYC cpus for under 900 dollars, about the best price I’ve found. Of course if you don’t need server solutions maybe not the best option for you. But I’ve seen some solid mid tier gaming systems running on older Xeon e-5 chips so some things are still possible. Just depends on your application for them.
Thank the democrats in America. Where the US goes, so does the rest of the world. Happens everytime those people get in charge.
@@johnmichaels4330 nah, the United States banks and corporations are just completely negligent when handling money. That’s why the world is looking to separate from the US dollar. They know another mismanagement of funds (which is inevitable) will cause ANOTHER global financial crisis…probably much worse than 2008. Corpos panicked during the pandemic and the government gave them money to prevent collapse since they spent it all on stock buybacks…and that’s exactly what they’ve done again. They’d rather fire you and I, give themselves bonuses and golden parachutes, then convince you it’s anyone except for them. It’s a house of cards built on monumental amounts of debt and imaginary money. It doesn’t matter who’s in charge because the financial sector has free reign to plunge our economy once again. I mean, you’re literally seeing it now with the prices of new pc components. Businesses have free reign to charge an arm and a leg while consumer credit debt rises into the trillions.
@@johnmichaels4330 This inflation is being called "Inflation of the Greedy". There's no reason for this outrageous raise in the prices in the post-Covid era. They just steal us more and more.
@@johnmichaels4330 numnuts we’re literally 4 presidents for 4 in a row hitting the money printer. Including papa trump. Take off the rosé tinted glasses.
I can see another trend going on with these. It looks like in another couple of generations the motherboard heat sinks will block out the sun.
Seriously, I'm curious. Does anyone encounter problems fitting in the CPU heatsink without these giant blocks interfering?
Yes. And i made such a big mistake to once go away from my Noctia, have not bought another CPU cooler since around 2005 made mistake with BeQuit. It's so fucked up to put this cooler on the CPU and in the case because screws are blocked. Give me Noctua, they know how to design an easy installable fan.
@@llothar68 Any issues with the ram slots? My Titan Fenrir had problems with taking up the same space the ram heat spreaders wanted to.
@@DGneoseeker1 Well it was a millimeter tight setting with normal RAMs. If i had any kind of cooler or RBG on them i'm sure i would feel very sorry. Bad again i blame it on the cooler manufactorer. I went back in History via TH-cam and find that they use exactly the same design for 15 years now as their premium system. Just changes the screws a little bit. It is lazy and fucking overpriced when you consider that they tell you R&D is so hard and cost money, but they never lower their prices. Fuck this whole industry. Hope my system will be useable for the next 8 years. I'm just a programmer.
It’s comical to see manufacturers touting their amazing leaps and bounds with 350watt processors…
@@SHW5010
There's nothing wrong with powerful processors. if you don't understand what an i9 Raptor Lake is capable of, that's on you.
Not all wants the toys from AMD, some of us need a CPU that will do multiple things well for a powerful workstation. Try working with Resolve Studio or Premiere with a 7950X vs a 14900K. That will tell you all you need to know.
I remember buying H series motherboards for 1150/1155 for extreme budget builds for like 40$. while I never expect to see that price for a new board again, its insane how much more they are.
Im remember those ultra low prices too 👍😉
And when High-End gamimg PC cost around 1.500$ while a high-end Mohterboard costed around 120$
But back then CPUs were consuming like 40 watts and were rated for 65. On AMD side, you could basically see modern motherboard market and by that I mean cheap boards with craptastic VRMs that can't remotely handle power demands, terrible cooling, underdeveloped UEFI and so on. To get perfectly functional AM3+ PC you needed to spend quite a bit of money on board with good VRMs just for using with stock speeds (even more so if you wanted to run 220 watt chips, which in reality were 260-280 watt). If you wanted to overclock, besides Giga 970 UD3P everything else was 200+ USD and if you wanted something that overclocked really well it was 400+ USD. Now CPUs consume even more power if not limited and we pay higher prices just to run PC at stock speed. The real enemy is growing wattage of CPUs and frankly it needs to stop. 65 watts with 95 watt boost is perfectly fine, if chip is too crap with those limits, it just shouldn't exist.
Greed. Greed never changes.
@@MJ-uk6lumy man I'd be totally fine to go back to the pre UEFI bios days, like 90% of bios today are stupidly cluttered with settings hidden behind a dozen menus and some random marketing gimmick names for certain features.
Fed up with mobo prices nowadays. Totally agree with you, a board should simply do its job of interconnecting components. Perhaps some cool features on higher end ones, but that's it. The rest is bs. Thanks for your always brutally honest videos bro 👌🏻
Guys in America are being hit with much higher prices than us in the UK for motherboards for us. It’s the other way round CPUs are the most expensive, probably double that what they are charging in America. I have had CPUs imported from the states to the UK for cheaper than I can get one here.
Back in the early 2000s boards were like $80, they had basiclly no color on them and looked like a pcb out of a radio, single layer, heat sinks that looked like chunks of a car radiator a d all the components were placed onto the pcb by hand using Chinese labour that cost 50 cents an hour
prices is one thing but also the way that features are described by brands makes deciding which one you want almost impossible
There was a time when a motherboard could be a big factor in the performance of the system, since the chipset contained a DRAM controller and was connected to the CPU bus.
Memory controllers have been integrated in PC CPUs for a long time now and CPUs even have some PCIe lanes and other components, so a lot less depends on the chipset.
@@ms3862 They weren't single layer. that was early to mid 90s
Jay thank you for making this video! My last build I did was of Z77/Z87 era and have spent the last few months slowing buying parts for my new 13th gen build. Back in the day a $300 motherboard was top of the line with every feature you could want and need and you could actually make it personal with color options, not just black or white and not everything had to look more gaming looking with the more features you wanted. I hope manufacturers watch your video and actually listen.
Still running said Z77 :p
@@pyromethious I did for 10 years, and I think that should really show how infrequently people do really need to upgrade opposed to the frequency that manufactures persuade us we need to. But that also can be based off use case .In the last I would say few generations at least from intel, it’s the first time to actually upgrade which is why I’m building a new build. Because since the introduction of sandy-bridge it’s the change we have had making it worth while. To each their own. GPU’s are a different conversation.
Definitely agree , I've seen a sharp rise in Motherboards with there being nothing to cover the basic build for people.. most people want a home computer to do their average daily work plus something they can play their favourite computer game in the evening.. The cost of building a basic system here in Australia with a suitable GPU for 1080P gaming is approaching the $1200 AUD .
The q-code reader is something that should be on every motherboard. It's not expensive and it helps alot.
It's missing from most boards so those who want it are forced into high tiers. There's no other reason.
@@rangersmith4652 yea, its freakin $2 a piece loose, they can get it
this has been doing my head in, im looking to build a new PC to replace my old i7 8700k build, and if im remembering correctly the motherboard i have in it was considered about mid to high end and cost around $200 to $300 AUD, and now to get similar features (power and reset physical switches, q-code reader, bios flashback button e.t.c), i need to spend $700 to $900 AUD which costs the same or more than the 7800X3D i want to buy.... its just insane
Problem is then no one would buy the high end models
The q-code display started out as a high end niche feature. At the time q-code came out all the other motherboards had just speaker beep codes for diagnosing boot errors. To be perfectly honest, it is still a niche feature that a vast majority of people would never use - I have built 8 systems in the past 8 or so years and I have never once had an issue that a q-code reader would have solved.
FANTASTIC video. You nailed it here. There is no "value" version of anything at the moment, it's all such a con. The PC industry needs a reality check. Great piece you have done here.
I remember when a mere $150 got you a flagship EVGA FTW board (and even with a lifetime warranty that carried over to the RMA replacements.)
The fed can't keep masking the economic state anymore
The last time I bought a Mobo (about a year ago), it was $250. I thought that was pretty up there already. This is insane.
Hate to say it, but that's a lot of gamers for you. You can still buy a nice Z790 Wifi board for about 250 or so, if not even less. Nobody forces anyone to buy that silly 800+ $ crap.
I've been running the cheapest x570 for a few years now, Gigabyte x570 UD... I think it was like $120ish. It felt bad buying bottom tier... but it's 100% functional and never let me down. Good purchase.
the x470 Gigabyte gaming wifi 5 is decent and the other one I have is X570 Gigabyte Aorus elite +wifi. both were less than 160 CAD used(250+ new ... still decent). both are the top end chipset with many additional features .new boards adding only pcie 5.0 or extra chipsets are super silly to have such a price increase.
Nice... On a 2nd hand X570 Tuf Gaming:) Works a treat!
When I built my Ryzen 1600 system in 2018, the motherboard only costed by $68, and the only probelm I've ever had was that it didn't have a second M.2 slot... so I payed 12 dollars to buy a M.2 to PCIe x4 adapter. And I could've gotten cheaper if I didn't care about looks
@@jakob_z Word. My only complaint is my x570 only has 1 m.2 slot like yours. PCIE 4.0 has been 100% worthless to me. A x470 with a second m.2 would have been cheaper and better for my uses... although 16gigs of 3600 dual channel ddr4 has been 😙👌 perfecto.
I remember when Fry's electronics had weekly specials where you buy a processor & motherboard combo and with the discount it was like you paid full price for the cpu but the motherboard was free.
Yea, Micro Center would do that a lot as well - once upon a time.
Micro Center still does that. Last year during Christmas was when the one near me in St Louis did it.
@@justinvanhorne9958 Would you mind explaining the context of what you're talking about in your comment a bit more? I'm afraid I just don't quite understand exactly what you are talking about.
All the good stores die off.
Somehow Yankee Candle Company exists with $60 candles.
You from Houston???
Man we had the most huge Fys electro... it was so fun to walk in
And....
Yes the Processor, mobo, memory deals were insane... as in. You were not looking at all to buy anything.. but you could not let the deal slip
Hey Jay, I think what catches so many of us out is just how vocal these brands are about what features are on their boards but say nothing about what kind of audience that specific product is aimed at. It'd be nice if you made a video breaking down the different parts and features found on modern motherboards and explained which ones are relevant and why, and what kind of demographic would be interested in them. Haven't seen anyone else doing it like that and It'll probably help clear up a few misconceptions people have when entering the hobby.
This ^^^
I upgraded to an x670e board and 7950x in large part for quad m.2 drives in addition to some of the other x670e specifics, the pcie gen 5 doubles chipset bandwidth and guarantees that the board will live to the end of AM5 socket as a good useful board. I value data storage, run multiple boot drives and make heavy use of them for code compiling, video transcoding and storage, in addition to a massive 3tb+ steam library.
Great comment. I am just recently getting into this, and it would be very helpful to have a video that explains all of this stuff.
I second that
Was "Elite Ultra Gaming Max Pro GTX FTW ROG WTF BBQ HAX LOL" not enough of a hint for you?
Luv ur videos dude but how about that tv in the background? Is it overclocked and AIO cooled?
Insane how post code screens have become so rare now
$500 is the starting point for a motherboard that has a literal $5 post code display. It's criminal.
@@WhisperingDeath You can probably get 2-digit 7 segment displays for half of that. Steve at Gamers Nexus was right in saying that the lower tier MoBos these days don't have the features (like a 7 segment display) that would be of benefit for their target audience, which is typically first-time/novice builders.
The cheapest alternative is 8 red LEDs, each displaying one bit of the post code directly. Still needs the bus interface/chipset pins that provide the 8 bit value, then maybe a chip to amplify the current strength from a few mA to the 20mA needed by low end indicator LEDs (each). Human decoding will be slightly more work, and the postcode table in the BIOS manual will be wider to spell out R_RR R__R instead of B9.
@@WhisperingDeath gamers nexus showed the component cost is sub 1 dollar
I don't like mobos not having it and I don't recommend mobos without it. I may have bricked a $450 mobo without it and it made troubleshooting a breeze.
Great video. You hit the nail on the head Jay. These companies are doing this because "they can" no other reason at all. They push up their margin because people keep paying for it. Same as GPUs..
Same with EVERYTHING these days.
@@kingeryck1 That must stop, the same with Software, requirements, licensing models, etc... I'm moving from macos and windows to linux on apple hardware to stay away from the trend...
@@jraulc I hope gog eventually adds Linux support, but I do realize that would be a daunting task considering how old some of those games are.
I'm glad that Jay is also covering this, same way Steve [GN] is. This has been annoying me for the past several years and is perhaps one the biggest reasons why I haven't built/upgraded my PC since 2015. There's no motherboard out there that I feel is worth buying, none of them seem to be on par or much better than my decent motherboard from 2015. Sure SLI isn't a thing anymore, but other useful features like the error code panels are essential for folks building at home. I hleped my pal build a few years back and it was tricky fixing issues without one.
my aio cooler cracked a seal and killed my PSU not long ago and I was kind of forced to upgrade my 10 year old system.
Shopping for the right mobo was just awful.
I remember looking at what was available last time I needed a new one and it was so easy to get something with enough i/o. Nowadays that's a premium? Like they've gone backwards. Good luck getting everything hooked up if you have more than a keyboard and a mouse.
@@Kekmit hell the low end stuff worked great and lasted at least the 40k hours it was rated for
I upgraded because caps aren't forever, especially in the numbers motherboards use them.
@@ferinzz I dont like AIO coolers they have all been less efficient and break faster than an air cooler.
@@pilsplease7561 this one was pretty good. had it for 8 years. All in all it was a good purchase.
The advantage of water cooling is that you can pull fresh air directly over the cpu rad instead of getting secondhand air from the gpu. Not necessarily cooling effectiveness.
PC brands have basically just groomed people into accepting insane prices for special new features which we will all definitely use every single day
Cannot agree more to this topic. Thanks for making a video about it! I think these prices are bad for the PC market itself, as they drive more ppl away from building their own dream PCs.
This is why I love microcenter's cpu+motherboard bundles/open box section. I've gotten some great deals with mobos thanks to them. Current pricing is nuts otherwise.
That's how I did my latest build.
Wish we had that here.
Same here, I love Microcenter. I also had the Gigabyte FX motherboard he is talking about, it's still chugging along. I did pick up the X570S MAG TOMAHAWK at with the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X and I love the combo. Hassle free and works great. I'm very happy to have a Microcenter 10 miles from my home.
And are those MBs the same as they sell separately? Because many companies have their special bioses where half of settings (especially OC) is missing, that's why MB taken out from some DELL or HP PC is mostly worthless if you don't want it just as office PC.
@@Pidalin They are retail standard boxed versions and no options have been removed.
Thank you Jay for pointing this out. I think a lot of people have gotten numb to inflated pricing. I also agree completely with everything you said in this video. It's arrogance of the manufacturers to keep the pricing of a motherboard way above reasonable pricing. Just like team green is learning, consumers will eventually dictate reasonable pricing, with allowing stores to keep plenty of inventory. Aka not buying their shhhhhtuf. Thanks for continuing to educate what common sense consumers should consider before blowing their wad prematurely, on overpriced wares. I've been an ROG fan since the crosshair III. It's sad to think, I simply can't afford to be an ASUS consumer anymore, and I'm a 50 yo.
yeah I mean if they are going to have the balls to ask for more for a motherboard they should be giving you more like that motherboard shown at 4:28 you get more ram slot more cpu's sockets and more pci-e slots unlike the pointless motherboard for 1200 and it has one cpu socket and four ram slots and two pci-e slots it's like why would it have to cost that much for that pathetic allowance of features🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Team green (Nvidia) is learning? Uh… did you see Nvidia's quarterly earnings. They're doing more than fine merely missing their RECORD revenue by 20%. They made record revenue during the pandemic. They have GPUs that are in a league of their own. What the hell did they learn?
It'll never come back down in pricing because people continue to pay it and don't care. That's the problem. Blame them, not the company because they want more profits. Blame the idiots paying these ridiculous prices.
Everyone is lied to about how much performance they need to play games. I run helldivers 2 on a gtx 980 on an ultrawide at medium. People will say that card was unusable 4 years ago. 11 years and it still works fine. Only upgrading soon because the true EOL is like 2 years from now and prices are falling a little
My first true gaming PC that I built myself, was a Pentium 4. The motherboard I bought was the first that moved from Rambus to DDR… it cost me about $100 bucks. This was an expensive board. I had gotten AMD boards for $50-$75 dollars. The cost of PC parts, most especially GPUs, just blow my mind…
my 1st true gaming conouter had a old FX-8130 on a gigabyte ud3 board.... I then upgraded to a FX 8350 which my brother currently has
I bought my first new desktop PC in over 20 years last week, and was surprised by the prices on the motherboards, thank you for bringing this up.
Almost always bought basically the cheapest possible motherboard with the features I wanted (generally meaning having 4 memory slots and such) and never really had any problems because indeed as long as you can plug in what you need then that's that. Never understood the crazy-priced ones.
up to a point they used to make some sense when they were the only chipsets for overclocking and you could actually wring out 20% + overclocks. Anymore when at best you're going to get something like a 10% overclock anyways it doesn't make any sense to do anything besides just buying the cheapest thing possible that's going to do what you want it to
It's priced so high to make money from idiots.
Until you buy one with terrible VRMs that can't handle CPU in games at stock speed without severe throttling. Then you realize that maybe expensive boards aren't all that dumb after all.
@@trulsrohk1 Today's CPU's are now pre-overclocked, so there's no need to go there today. Any meagre gain you might get will be immediately depressed by the significantly extra power/energy usage/costs required.
If the motherboard manufacturers would replace the 12-phase 1920-vintage VRM with a 2-phase 2011 VRM they would improve efficiency, reduce cost, free up board space, and eliminate the single-FET destroys CPU failure mode.
Ironically, the statement "You get what you paid for" is arguably what got us to this situation.
It's frustrating too, because I was helping my friend spec out a potential build in the future and he's just drawn to the x670-e Strix and asks why I didn't suggest that over the b650 TUF. I gave him a tired look and said "Because you'd be paying twice as much for basically no meaningful improvement to put into a case that's going to have a tinted glass panel."
Tinted glass panel 😂
@DaKrawnik420 A good friend who knows what they are talking about and knows that money can be spent somewhere else on the build.
@@GodDragonLich Not to mention that the friends questioned was “Why this over that?” It’s good to have a friend who - as you said - knows what they’re talking about, but I will add that said friend shouldn’t be afraid to be honest and tell you when something is just a crap idea and there’s better options for you … but will support you even if you choose the crappy option anyway.
@@StolenJoker84 what are you meant to do when you are the friend giving advice and the friend building the PC doesn't listen
@@iamstd2 All I do is give advice. It’s up to you to take it or not.
If we’re close enough friends, I’ll tell you you’re an idiot for not listening, but I’d still help you build the thing. 😂
This was an important video to make. Thank you for addressing this issue.
How tf did we get from $70 motherboards to $250+?
15:55 EXACTLY! THANK YOU!
16:34 Artificially inflated, yeah.
Most underrated motherboard currently has got to be the proart x670E creator wifi, a good $500+ cheaper then the "extreme extreme " with pretty much all the same stuff
Completely agree with this, the prices have gone nuts. I’ve always bought ASUS in the past, but I find now it confusing to know which is their top of the line motherboard as there as some many SKUs, nor easily compare with competitors. Also motherboards seem to have gone M.2 crazy. Even E-ATX boards seem to only have 2 PCI slots, but a million M.2 slots and using a M.2 will reduce the PCI slots speed by a half. The size of graphics cards has killed the number of PCI slots which is a shame.
Because people only use a GPU and then M2 and normally nothing else anymore.
dude you're overreacting. m2 slots are a win, because it means having less cables. right now i only have the mobo connector, cpu conector and gpu connector installed in my case. the less cables the better. love the m2 slots. they are a massive win. who the fuck goes sli/crossfire anyways dude? i do agree with your last sentense though, these gpus are fucking huge. kinda makes me not want to upgrade.
True man. They look on mass why don't understand
@@deathrager2404 well SLI/crossfire basically doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for a while, so aside from fairly niche components which use pci-e slots, the only common use for them today is soundcards and/or solid state storage (which is also becoming less common with m.2 slots).
The Q-Code thing isn't even an expensive thing to add, yet if you want it, you have to shop in the $300+ category for something that should be widely available on midrange boards.
Considering that it's based on a diagnosis feature that almost every motherboard has and can be accessible with $10 diagnosis post card.
My mobo cost $130 and has one
Most manufacturers q-codes aren’t helpful anyway. Old ASUS extreme and deluxe boards were actually helpful for OC though
My first build was an Z97X-UD5H from Gigabyte with and 4790k. This motherboard had an M.2 PCiE Slot and a Q-Code Reader an dedicated Power Button on the board, dual BIOS, 6 Fan Headers and it cost like 150 Euros back than. It was pretty much Highend in my opinion but also affordable. Nowdays i got an B550 Pro from gigabyte and ill dont got Dual Bios, no Q-Code Reader, no Power Button and it is pretty much Mid Range for the same price (inflation adjsuted)
@@UriPhoneCracker Yeah? Which model? which chipset?
I think choosing the right motherboard is arguably now the hardest part of a build. Trying to get a decently priced motherboard with a Q code display is really tough. The manufacturers have so many different ranges which in its self must increase cost, not to mention keeping on top of the software.
What’s a good store to buy parts from? Considering building my first machine. Obviously new egg or micro center but is there a better source?
Motherboard features that I look for are bios flashback, dual bios would be nice, I actually really like the Q code readouts, and I will look for reviews on how well the motherboard handles power delivery.
One thing I would like to see is BIOS upgrades that **don't** f**k around with your existing settings (that means *YOU*, MSI) just because they decided to grovel before Microsoft rather than consider the needs of their customers. As in, if I have (in)Secure Boot DISabled, it should stay that way, and if the rarely-used MSWin partition is not currently the default boot (or for that matter, isn't in the list of active UEFI boot options at all), then do NOT switch it to the primary boot option.
I started building computers back in the late '90s. Back then you basically had a choice between Pentium 3, Celeron, athlon, and duron. Yeah, you didn't have a lot of options, but it was kind of nice to be honest 🙂
Ah, the memories. The 90's into the early 00's were great for pc builders. The increases in computational power was exponential from year to year. Built my first pc in the mid 90's, a 75 Mhz Pentium. By the end of the decade 2 GHz cpus were knocking at the door.
LOL, we had a system running on a 8088 processor that my dad bought in '87, we used it for ten years in which time most of my friends got a computer that would run on windows 3.1 and where my best friend's dad bought a computer that would run windows 95!! The WOW! factor of the new computers in those days had far more impact than the machines we see coming out these days.
@@gags730 ROFL! We had a service where we could call into an internet service using the phone line where the modem would dial a number and we couldn't receive any phone calls...
@@gags730 to be fair intel pentium 4 Prescott didn't faire well against northwood
Even better when the early Celerons were notorious for being able to easily overclock to the moon, eg. you could OC a Covington or Mendocino-era Celeron to the speeds of the higher-end P2s and P3s that were out at the time, granted that doesn't necessarily mean they performed better, eg. the previous XOC record holder was an FX-8370 until an i9-13900K broke that record in October of last year, and Bulldozer/Piledriver silicon was never a very strong performer in its day vs. its direct competition from Intel, although it could OC to ridiculous heights.
The timing on this hits me hard, as I've been taking an initial look at starting a new build. I haven't shopped motherboards for a gaming box since 2017, and just seeing so many mobos starting around $250-$300 (and climbing) shocked me. Clearly I've been ignoring pricing outside of the graphic card market.
As you put it, there's something nuts about potentially spending more money on the motherboard than the processor itself!
I have only bought 2 prebuilts, but just this week i spoiled myself with a new MOBO and CPU. Its funny cause i bought the exact same MSI mpg EDGE he has here with an i5 13600k and its great. Over the past 2 years since i bought my second IBP prebuilt i have replaced everything except the GPU. It was surprisingly easy, but working with such expensive fragile parts adds allot of doubt.
I find it crazy frustrating. I would like to go for a build with a phanteks ultra pro to connect with my msi RS pro.
The website of phanteks said i needed mystic lights.
When i looked for msi mobo's with mystic lights, i couldnt find the RS Pro but when i checked in the manual of the RS pro, i did see mythic lights. Its so confusing. I compared it with a manual of a mobo that according to msi did have mythic lights and i saw NO difference. What is going on here??
Shocking how things have changed so quick. My build was around 700 to 800 (i didn't really keep track of it) when I built it, but nowadays thats the price of only one component!
Going "overkill" on the motherboard or video card is where much of the price increases come from. Top end consumer CPU in 2017 was in that $500 range. Top end consumer CPU did go up from there, but double the number of CPU cores will push up prices a bit, or you can stick to an 8-core CPU(ignoring those pathetic E-cores from Intel). Video cards are quite a bit more, but 8GB VRAM cards in 2017 to 24GB VRAM cards that are double the physical size. But, going to something like a RTX 4090 seems a bit excessive.
It all started when Nvidia decided to price the GTX 580 at $499. I remember it vividly. Since then, price shot up. This isn't about supply chain, COVID, or inflation. It's artificial inflation prices as Jay pointed out.
Yeah well a 1996 BMW M3 was also cheaper brand new than the new 2023 M3 so that kind of makes sense
@@allisknu11
The supply chain "issues" and the Flu were also examples of artificial inflation. -One is- Both are caused by everything being made in China (including that "bug").
Last September I replaced a six year old 6600K system with a 5600X/B550. The CPU cost £200 and the MB (MSI A Pro) was £85. Don't regret it at all. A month later replaced the 1060 with a 6700XT and don't regret that either. More than powerful enough for all I use it for including 1440p gaming.
My latest build is now 3 years old but I still remember the agony of comparing boards and their features.
And yes, it is getting much much worse (doing builds since 1999).
If only someone could scrape all the pecs, align them in a spreadsheet and show it to everyone
Choosing a board would be reduced to filtering columns
Every normal online shop has filters on specs, like every spec you can imagine.
theres loads of spreadsheets online, you just have to look for them lol
Newegg does something similar to what you're asking.
So... Pcpartpicker?
@@zapf6987 why can i not find stuff on pcpartpicker like the asus hero boards? (as of right now)
Pc builders need to set a budget for each component and stick to it. I’m not spending more than $300 for a motherboard or $500 for a gpu. I’m not going to endorse the ridiculous prices component manufacturers are charging. And if I can’t get the parts at the price I want to spend, I’ll wait. As new tech comes on the market, older tech gets cheaper.
I'm at a point where the thing I might care most about when shopping for a motherboard is having lots of USB ports and m.2 sockets. Oh, and if I can avoid having a chipset fan, that's brilliant.
Absolutely this. I'm out of USB ports so I had to get a hub; turns out, I'm hot swapping the last port on the 4 (functionally actually 3) port hub. And storage? I have 4 or 5 drives and could definitely use another m.2.
What's wrong with a USB hub? Each USB port is designed to host up to 127 devices and they're cheap, modular and replaceable
That was really the only reason I got my Asus ROG Strix B760-A motherboard, compared 8t to the price of the z790 stuff that was in the $300-400 range and was like nahh, just give me USB ports (for streaming) and make it white to match my build
Why in the world, would the manufacturers install non replaceable fan or a fan that is proprietary to the particular mother-board? It might make sense if they partnered with a company that focuses on fans, like Noctua, having them supply 25mm (or whatever size that is available, by itself)
@@superskrub4209 I have a hub, but that's just yet-another-hardware device laying next to the PC or resting on top of the PC or on the desk. I don't like the extra clutter. But yeah, I'm in the situation where I could use another hub already..
I still use a 4790k daily on a z97i itx motherboard. It cost 110€ back then. I thought it was expensive but I wanted the wifi, the usb 3, the overclocking and it even has an m.2 slot (in 2013). That thing was (and still is) awesome.
4790K and Z97 are from 2014. M.2 was introduced in November 2013 but there wasn't any boards with it until 2014 when H97/Z97 came out
Ha, same here. My daily is also a 4790k on an itx mobo. Uses less than 50w of power for most basic tasks. (I do have a separate gaming pc tho)
I used the same combination, the motherboard did not have a M.2 slot, nevertheless, I purchased a PCIE adapter and running the latest Samsung SSD 990 Pro 2TB on it on full speed. Most get confused about technical terms, DDR 5 can still not saturate a PCIE gen 3 slot; you will have the same speed as DDR 5, same with the latest GPU's. My reason to build recently a new system, is the 32 GB on RAM limitation that the old board has, nevertheless, the old Granny is still going strong without any hick-ups.
@@Pasi123 Then it might have been from 2014. It has been awhile ;)
I just remember informing myself about it and thinking that i probably won't need it.
Terrible trends plaguing humanity is a timeless classic
Or degradation and "listen to fools"
This video really helped me by the simple fact that you kept it conceptual, in spite of the examples given….I think this really made me a more shrewd shopper/builder
Thanks for addressing this issue.
I haven't built a PC since 2016 or so. I started looking at current components available to configure a new build and was shocked at the prices of CPU and Board. Core i3 are selling at the price point of an unlocked i5 😅😅😅
₹8000-12000 was the sweet spot for boards up untill a few years back, most people didn't need anything costly than that. Now it's just a mess.
That's when I built mine, too. Insane how much CPUs and Boards have gone up in price in such a short time.
Built mine in 17, after looking at current market I have decided to keep motherboard and CPU and just upgrade memory and GPU. Should be good for a few more years before it's totally obsolete and I can do it for like 350 bucks vs spending 2k just to be in the ballpark of a mud grade build. Unreal.
Got into pc Building when I was 13 years old, saved up from birthday money and Christmas money to build my own computer and made it happen with cheap / decent parts that lasted me 6 years. finally an adult at 26 with a decent job and everything sky rockets to the point I can’t make it as a hobby as I wanted to when I was younger. Life sucks
At 16 or so years old, I was excited to build my first AMD K5-75 machine.
Manufacturers have increased cost while removing features. You used to need a sound card for good sound, then onboard sound got so good even audiophiles didn't need a separate card. But for my most recent build, the cheapest ATX mobo I could find was $220 and it uses an old bargain audio chip and doesn't even have enough ports for 5.1 sound and a mic.
Would you recommend the MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard? I dont wanna go overboard with a motherboard, but it's pretty much covering the bases with what else ive got selected for my build.
$1200 is typically the budget for the whole system. prices are absolutely insane now a days why I'm still rocking a old 1080ti
No, that's typically a budget of one part
The 1080ti was costing 700$ at start. I bought it nearly 7 years ago. But the power of 4090 in term of cuda cores is 4.6x. So 1600$ is reasonable to me. 1200$ for rtx 4080. It is a prosumer card for video/rendering 3d/games. Adding inflation to that, 1200$ is the price.
Rtx 5090 32GB will be 1800$ at least and 1600$ for 24GB. This is my bet. But i will target probably a rtx5080 or 5080ti to replace my 1080ti that will have well served for 8 years in 2025. I bet rtx 5080 will be 1200$.
$700 in 2017 when the 1080ti came out is $875 now. Meanwhile, 4090s are $1600.
Blistery dickery if you want two.
@@seigeengine the 4090 have vastly more power. it is normal it is far more expensive. I have no issues with the price.
Couldn't agree more. My prior system was built on that MSI MPower board, and I really had to think on it because an over $200 mobo just seemed bananas to me. I made that system last for a long time. It was replaced by the current system with another MSI board that was slightly less expensive, but was at best a middle of the pack board (MSI MPG Gaming Plus) about 3 years ago. At this point it seems like I'll be back to buying used generation or two older stuff because I'm not going to pay $300+ for ridiculous RGB plate plastered motherboards. I want useful features, not fluff. I don't care about all the extras, I don't stare at my PC's innards all day. If my case doesn't have a window, I don't care. Mobo makers seem to be completely out of touch.
You mean you dont humble-brag/boast by posting gaudy pics on reddit?
“I’m not mad, just disappointed” one of the most devastating things a kid can hear from their parents.
😢 that shit hurt the most
Yup, the disappointment is way worse than the anger. It's a much more profound pain.
I'm still trying to work out which is worse.. Understanding the Kilngon or being a disgrace to the Empire..
not to sound too "double tanjenty" here: I used to overthink my gamer PCs. Now I over think my car''s upgrades/mechanical stuff! I no longer plan on flushing my coolant every 6 months(in my Dodge Ram since its modern not classic) nor putting in liquid coolers in my gaming rig when it didn't come with one! That's obsessive these days I understand. The "extended" ATX is overkill I always insistred on those in my full towers for cooling. I understand from watching many of your vids and online research(Tom's Hardware and talking to Falcon-NW agents they seem more honest than most sales), Big mobos, this is unnessasary. I think, I thought, and I pondered on it, then thunk, and I'm done with it! guts are all I listen to now!
Preach!! I used to cringe at spending $130 on a mid-range motherboard. Yeah, there are (I'm sure) a handful of folks out there who will actually make use of some of the features of the high end boards ... but if you're not looking to overclock, you're not looking for OLED displays, etc .. why bother spending money on parts that aren't going to give you any performance gains while stripping your budget for the parts that WILL make a big difference? It's crazy.
Before the pandemic ended, I bought 3 motherboards for $50, $100, and $120. I absolutely dodged a bullet, it seems.
Honestly the biggest thing I noticed when getting a new AM5 board was that hardly any boards offer enough full length - or even x4 PCIe slots and instead offer completely useless x1 slots.
Not really. Pcie wifi 6/6e works only on x1 slot. If your wifi nvme slot on the mb die then a pcie x1 is your only choice. If you don’t have it, the mb is RIP.
@@CC-gt3roWhat?
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
PCIe slot sizes are fully downwards compatible.
You can use a 4x card in a 8x or 16x slot no problem.
Same for 1x and 2x.
@@CC-gt3ro I can't remember the last time I saw a motherboard that didn't have wi-fi built in.
@@mechadeka the wifi component can stop working, or if the motherboard has no wifi card slot pciexpress and you want futur wifi 7 for example. My mb has 7 years.
@@Minecraftrok999 Apparently that is not the case. Wifi pci card indicates they don’t work on slot other than pciexpress x1. I read that in reviews and mentioned by manufacturers. I haven’t tested it myself because i have a wifi car pciexpress slot and was able to upgrade to wifi 6/6e by removing the chip from the pciexpress x1 card Asus and connecting the external antennas directly to the motherboard. But i remember it is indicated the provided full pci card with the chip inside don’t work on slot other than pcie x1 and i have read that on two manufacturer Asus and Gigabyte because originally i bought an extension card for my pc that did have the motherboard wifi slot card but no card install. (First zen 1 asus crosshair 6 hero wifi ready)
Same thing with cars now. They are forced to come with so many unnecessary bells and whistles that it makes the price of a new car as much as a house used to be
I genuinely hadn't realized this was an issue for some -> I have a $120 motherboard from a few years ago when I was upgrading my CPU from 4th gen to 10th gen and absolutely refuse to pay more than ~$200 for a motherboard lol
Lots of love to Phil for suffering through the era of IEEE 1394 as I did. One of my first computer builds included a drive bay mounted firewire (and other input ports) plate.
Mine too. DFI LanParty iirc
When I did my first build, 1394 didn't even exist, and to this day I never even used it when it was around. It was a total waste of tech. It tried catching on but USB was more widely adopted.
The fun of importing video at real time speed 😅😭
@@SyntheticFuture Cue the clueless me, hopping on to Digital 8 like sure it's digital both on the storage and the connection side, it shouldn't be real time transfer... right? Nope :D
I miss all those expansion slots. I use my computer for many things, and it’s sucks to be hindered by lack of pcie slots. Thunderbolt helps, but it just ain’t the same as kitting your system out with multiple cards.
My m.2 memory DIED after 4years. Better than SSDs or HDDs my ass. Never again. They arent worth the price or hassle if they die as quickly as the other options. SSD for speed and HDD for storage. Easy to plug in 'n out. At best, M.2 is light weight and slim for short builds.
Basically confirmed all the reasoning I went through for the last 2 systems I built. I had been some years and I was just totally pissed off by what I was finding while looking for compatible parts for different CPU / mobo.
As I remember the prices started to go up since the motherboards / ram supporting the fancy RGB lightning, which I didn't want. Recently, my CPU burnt and I needed a new build. I decided to get a new DDR5 build as my old CPU model was pretty old. I tried to find some mid-tier motherboard at my local stores without RGB lightning and Wifi without luck, and finally got a flashy motherboard with some flashy RAM.
I don't want bloated prices for light pollution. 😥
You can turn them off
@@everythingponyyeah but they didn't want them at all
Same gripe.
I don't want my PC making pointless light. I don't want to waste money on lights that I'm probably going to find distracting and leave off all the time when I'm too poor to afford the basic hardware I want.
I think at tops a motherboard should be 300. Their shouldn’t be motherboards that cost as the same as build. On a lighter note, I’d love to see a video of all the motherboards / systems you’ve used in the past Jay and what where some of your favorites! Some of the boards on display are works of art!
Inflation and price gouging aside, a motherboard is just a product like anything else, and like everything else its worth what people are willing to spend. Putting an arbitrary figure on a product type is illogical.
yeah bro totally personally i think a my groceries shouldn't be more than $100 a month. It's outrageous!
@@lolzlolz69 economics are not that simple.
It would only work as you mentioned, if there were any substitutes and people would still buy the more expensive product.
Motherboards don't have substitute products, and higher prices are translating in actual numbers: supply has gone up, but demand for pc components has gone down.
If a market has a product with no substitute, the product has the flexibility to decide the price range, as consumers don't have any other alternative.
I don't want to get to deep into economics, but the pc market is shifting heavily on new so-called para-substitutes: handheld pc gaming, laptop gaming, used components and so on.
They are para-substitutes (and not true substitutes) because they are not part of the same category of products as motherboards, but they do potentially influence the supply/demand scheme long-term through the external influence.
@@A_d_e_k You're wrong about just about everything. Supply has gone down or stayed the same, but demand has gone way up since a lot of people got into pc gaming in the last 3 years. People deciding not to buy something doesn't mean demand went down.
Either way whining about expensive motherboards that do exactly the same thing as the cheap motherboards is silly.
@@squidwardo7074
During covid demand grew. It went (and is still going) down after Covid.
I don't even understand your point about demand not decreasing if people decide to buy something else, that's what demand in a pinch is.
Especially ASUS is really cheaping out on their motherboards. Prime in the beginning was a really solid quality mid range motherboard, these days it's the cheapest shit of all brands! TUF Gaming once came with 5 year warranty but these days it's a basic motherboard with marketing. At Strix it becomes what 15 years ago was called Deluxe. ASUS is in a fast decline. It's the brand to avoid in terms of value.
Id love to see a basic board get released that just have super basic features, green PCB, super tough power circuitry, minimal heatsinks and a low price. Id love that TBH.
Its so bad at the moment that I would be happy to pay more for a green mobo that didn't have rgb led, panels and god knows what...but did have extra slots. Maybe I'm old school but I can't really stand mobos that looks like the dash of a luxury car or unicorn puke.
Yeah I'm not into rgb either
Ali express... is great for this
@@secularnevrosis I like my RGB components but it's too one color scheme instead of unicorn puke.
Honestly, I bought the ROG STRIX Z690-E GAMING WIFI for a few features that stood out. I wanted the most USB inputs as possible because I use almost all of them, and the Z690-E is almost unrivaled in the amount of inputs that are available. Being a new build I also wanted to take advantage of all the next gen features like NVMe M.2, PCI-E Gen4/5, DDR5 RAM, WIFI 6E. It was a good to upgrade from my Z97 Chipset, I just wish I would have waited for the 13th Gen Raptor Lake CPU, I ended up with the 12th Gen Alder Lake 12900k. I paid around $500 for the ROG STRIX Z690-E GAMING WIFI.
Well done Jay, you and the team have done a good thing with this and your last video.
Content that shows the problem with modern PC component manufacturers and exploitation. Style over Function only for the additional cost!
Did you find any difference in performance say compared Z to B series boards? Or different Z series boards like MSI PRO Z690-A vs MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk? thinking to build one and got stuck at Mobo! CPU would be 13600k!
Thanks for taking your time and energy to speak with us about this issue.
I've used ASRock for my last 3 builds, their mid tier stuff has been great value propositions and I like their UEFI, it's very functional. Don't see them mentioned by many people, would love to see someone with more experience with other brands comment on the pros/cons
I like ASRock as well but NONE of their z790 boards have bios flashback. In the process of building in a z790 riptide.
I've used ASRock on my last five builds. One 9th gen i5, one B450 and three B550 boards. Only two were purchased new, and none were more than $150 shipped. My last three are all 5600X processors with 16gb of 3200 RAM. I don't need anything more, even for gaming at this point for myself or my son.
ASRock had a bad reputation. 10 years ago i had boards die in less than a year
@@Kyle1444 they did, yes. I was a little nervous when I built the ITX 9th Gen, but obviously I went back to them four more times. I had been an gigabyte & MSI mobo guy for years. I still love my two MSI laptops, and will get a new one later this year for work again.
When speccing mine, I started with the chipset I wanted then looked for the cheapest board that carried it. The ASrock b650e riptide was the top pick until the in-stock date pushed back an extra month, so went for an open box NZXT N7 b650e as it was next cheapest in stock 😂
It's crazy how quickly the prices jumped. My system is on a Z390 Aorus Master, I believe it was 259 when I got it. The Z790 Aorus Master is nearly 500. Double the price in a few years is crazy.
i picked up the same feature set on a msi z790 w the q code for 500 cdn (400usd) wifi all only con was the back up gpu testing port was hdmi not DP. I'm so glad I skipped spending 1000 usd on the Asus EXTREME roG one.
The worst part of buying a motherboard anymore is getting a digital readout for debugging. It’s so useful and so cheap to add for the manufacturer, yet you basically can’t get one without spending $350+
Lights blinking different colors isn’t user friendly at all, so if there’s an issue with my folks motherboard, it would be nice if they could tell me an error code, rather than trying to find and decoder the blinks
It's been a long time since I've built my own system I'm researching now. Everything is ridiculously expensive! Motherboards like like spaceships ready for battle. Nothing costs under $500 (I'm in Canada so it's all 30% more than USA). A video card like an RTX4090 ($2,200 CDN) is what a complete high end system would have cost not too long ago. edit: just wait until Intel ATC12VO and another bump in cost once what were once PSU duties get added to motherboards.
You mean like motherboards now having to have the 5V regulator, and power outputs, onboard in order to power SATA/IDE drives, case USB hubs, and similar devices?
Bro come to Europe, cry with us.... you should see the prices over here.
Cheapest RTX4090 I could find in the Netherlands would cost you $2650 CDN. Im researching/contemplating a new build aswell. Almost made all the decissions on what parts to buy, but im unwilling to spend the money. Lets not forget that the industry struggles to give us quality for our money. SSD with firmware problems, $1000 graphic cards that are unable to run 4k properly, inflamable gpu cables, overheating cpu’s, noisy psu’s and the list goes on.
Well part of your problem is looking at a 4000 series card, all the prices are stupid. You can get a 3070 ti for under 800 bucks new, even better used. And btw I'm using USD, not sure what that is in Canadian
@@ToTheKneeProductions so your advice is to spend $800 usd on a graphics card with 8gb VRAM when building a new gaming system in 2023? Im surprised you dont reccomend people to go and buy a used gtx1050, im sure its cheaper than a 3070ti , problem solved. (Read with sarcasm)
I was pretty happy with my Ryzen 5 & B450 Aorus Pro build several years ago (still using). Recently, I though it might be time to upgrade but just looking at what motherboards and CPUs have become in the last few years, I've lost interest in building another PC. 😕😟
Better to upgrade parts every couple years than hold on to a system till total obsolescence.
Either way you’re spending a lot but at least with occasional upgrades spread over time you keep your system relevent and your older still relevant components still have some re-sale value that you can claw back on for new things you bought.
Hurts less than finding £1000 for a new system all at once.
@@christinaedwards5084 hard to do that when new generations make older things obsolete
am5 releasing has made both my cpu ram and motherboard obsolete
I most recently built a mini-itx system and was astounded by the pricing, but assumed that £320 for a motherboard was the mini-itx tax. My previous build from back in 2013 used a £100 discounted motherboard and did all I asked of it.
Itx Premium on top of the current prices is completely bonkers. I looked for AM5 boards and decided to just get an AM4 one with a 5700X and wait for some time...
Especially with having most features inside the CPU and the motherboard chipset making no difference.
When AM4 was "new" you would find B350 for way less than 100€ offering the same as X370 boards.
This continued with B450 / X470.
Still you could run your high end CPU with B350.
Many makers also did offer rich OC options for these boards.
Premium boards for 300€ existed, but other than fancy PWM and cooling they did not realy offer more.
Intel was a bit late to (re)join mITX at that time, but the same logic can be applied later on for DDR4 "generations".
Then the shortage came in.
Suddenly you could sell your 3 year old used board for double the price.
The companies adjusted their product line.
Cheap boards were phased out and premium products were refreshed with higher price tag.
There is almost no reason to have the top chipset on an mITX board.
The only reason I can think of, is you want to use two m.2 slots with maximum speed.
But sadly the boards with middle class chipsets are just as expansive, as the top ones used to be, 3 years ago.
I need a motherboard that supports DDR5 rams, LGA 1700 Z790 for the cpu and a 4080. Found MSI Z790 DDR5 tomahawk. Would that motherboard be a good purchase or am I missing a better value board?
I am open to recommendations but I don't feel confident in ASUS motherboards.