You can find Tyrion's coat of arms description in the chapter 59 of ACOK, but it doesn't throw it in your face as a personal sigil, it appears to be just an adornment: "His big red stallion wore crinet and chamfron. Crimson silk draped his hindquarters, over a coat of mail. The high saddle was gilded. Podrik Payne handed up helm and shield, heavy oak emblazoned with a golden hand on red, surrounded by small golden lions."
Aegon loving Sunfyre so much that he immortalized him in his sigil, and being described as his glory and on,y source of happiness will never stop being so moving to me.
Personal symbols are so damn cool. I’d love to see more of them, they tell the story of the person who bears the arms and helps to differentiate the cadet branches
That was the sickest transition at 3:11 ! Going from the green wildfire explosion to house Tyrell greens sigil…signifying their end in the show. Mind blowing!
Walder Rivers seems like one of the underrated badasses of the realm. Jamie inmediately recognizes him as far more dangerous than his noble brothers, he is famed as a warrior, he was trusted to lead the main battle at the Twins, Lord Walder even trusted him to pass judgement across his lands.
If Jon becomes king in the north in the books, I bet his banner will be similar to Rob's, but the colours will be inverted with it being a white wolf (to represent ghost) on a black background (to represent the long night)
@@imnotchilla9482Jon's not really a bastard though even if he doesn't know he isnt he's still a stark by blood so I'd think he'd try combine the targaryen and stark sigils together
@@TruekingoftheLeinstermen no, he still a bastard if he is Rhaegar son, because there are no way that they managed legit marriage of Lyanna and Rhaegar
@@EineMeine rheager had his marriage dissolved by the high septon and he was married to lyanna he was legitimate but I'd still consider him a stark his mother was and he was raised as a stark it's really his choice as to whether he's a stark or targareyn
@@EineMeinehope you know in the book rhegar needs a daughter not a son to complete the song of ice and fire. Visenya is stated to have basically been the conqueror dying in dorne a warm place where guess who else was at? Lynnana and rhegar at the tower of joy. Jon isn’t his son
The Golden Dragon on a Black Banner will always be one of my all-time favorite sigils in fantasy tbh. Such a dope color scheme, even if not all that different from the regular Targaryen Sigil with a Red Dragon. (Also, I'm surprised Bronn's sigil doesn't have an arrow, instead of the chain we got)
well, the chains represents the big chains that where installed in blackwater bay and where used to trap stannis fleet inside the bay so they can't escape the fire.... the chains where tyrion's idea, but since bron was the man who put everything on fire, he can "claim" the whole trap for him... so yeah, i think the chains fits a lot better
Running with the theme of Dunk not having any prestigious background, his sigil just being a tree with a shooting star he remembered from a previous night, that he decided on the spot, really fits, compared to all of the sigils that supposedly have rich backgrounds
I'm guessing Viserys didn't because he was so obssessed with being the 'true heir to the Iron Throne' that he felt the only arms worthy of him was the three headed dragon of House Targaryen
Obreryn’s personal Sigil I think was a red viper.. cause people called him that The beggar king Viserys just used the OG Targaryen Sigil cause he’s obsessed with his family And finally, I love how you referenced my combined sigil
Obsessed with the power his family used to have rather than his family itself. Cause he doesn't seem to care for Daenerys much beyond her potential uses to him and his agenda.
The Baratheon sigil wasn't really 'stolen' from the Durandon's- it was adopted, because Orys married the end-of-line heiress, Argella- & as a Valyrian, his family didn't have arms like the Westerosi nobles - stolen arms is more what the Golden Company 'knights' do, because they allow a policy of assuming whatever name/ noble connections they want... I was disappointed that HotD didn't correct the Stark sigil, leaving it as Robb's personal arms. I hope they fix it for s2- maybe they can pretend it _was_ a personal arms for one of Cregan's cousins- we never saw them, just the fact that someone for House Stark was at the tourney.
I always liked how creative and colorful GRRM made the sigils. In real life I'd say most most medieval sigils were pretty boring and basic in design but at least country and state flags are more interesting
George got most of his sigil ideas from real life medieval history. There are plenty of "boring" medieval sigils but there are plenty of exciting ones if you look for more than 2 minutes.
@fairshareofdrownedsouls idk most of the medieval sigils Iv come across are either boring or too convoluted. Whereas with George his are simple and to the point of the house or individual flying them and have good designs. Some are convoluted but it's clearly intentional depending on the character's personality but overall are solid
They bought them from the targs on dragonstone, which is part of why they came west but just offshore as a safe trading post. With no productive land it’s only sustainable with imports but with no exports from the land…
@@swayback7375 Are you telling me that the houses Harlaw, Stark, Roxton, MORMONT and Corbray got their Valyrian Steel weapons from trade? House Stark isn't that wealthy, and it certainly ain't wealthy enough to buy a valyrian steel sword at least 50% bigger than Brightroar which was bought by the richest house in the story. On top of that, how weren't house Targaryen the richest house after selling 23 valyrian steel swords? On top of that how did they get 23 valyrian steel weapons? They were not at all that wealthy compared to the rest of the dragon lords in old valyria. And on top of all that, how is it never mentioned that ALL of the valyrian steel weapons were bought from the same source? I just remembered that Ice was gained even before the Targaryens came to Westeros
Funfact: The red band in Walder Rivers coat of arms seems to be a nod to historical heraldry. Noble bastards could be granted the right to bear their fathers coat of arms, but it had a "bar of bastardry" in it to denote the bearers descent. You can find prominent examples in the heraldry of the Dukes of Grafton or House Vendôme.
Each personal digit are like tattoos of some old school designs but with some personal twists. Then you get people like Euron who come up with their unique ideas that shock everyone.
I also got Robb's personal stark sigil mixed up for all of House Stark's. That's wild, I do think Robb's is better than the base one. My favorite is the blackfish, however he is also one of my favorite character's so a little biased. I think Bloodraven's spin on the Targaryen sigil is so awesome. Honestly I don't like a lot of the sigils and shield looks, look very STOCK image-y. Like Euron's is so badass in concept, but the actual design is just stock images. very little artwork. I don't expect them to hire artists just for fan-made websites, but some just look so offputting. Especially when you show the ones that combine house sigils at the beginning, with the four sectioned off areas.
Even then, I think that sigil is just a show invention. I don't remember Robb Stark's banner being a direwolf head in the books. Having said that, the show version of the sigil of House Arryn looks better than the one from the books.
Walder Rivers does not scream “I’m not a Frey” lol. He’s heavily involved with the planning and execution of the red wedding and he’s very loyal to his house
A mockingbird sings. Baelish gets the information he needs by the singing of his little birds. Like Varys or Pycelle, he has little birds that tell him all the secrets he need to blackmail, anticipate or control.
I think knighting Bron was as much about winning him away from Tyrion as it was about his contributions to the Battle of the Blackwater. Especially in the books.
I always assumed that Robb originally made his own coat of arms because when he first set out he was only heir to Winterfell and wasn’t working under his Lord Fathers orders. Then kept it when he became king. It would make sense as a strategic choice to both represent The Starks whole of things could be worked out in the capital it would also be put down as an unofficial crusade by Robb. Not that Robb would be thrown to the…. “Lions?” (Can’t say wolves) but it does mean that technically Robb raised banners and not necessarily House Stark. It’s Symantec but that’s politics.
It should be noted that personal sigils are a thing irl because only the eldest son has the right to the house arms so it could be assumed that if westeros works the same that every non eldest son technically should have a personal sigil
It bother me Robb didn’t wear his sigil on his armor in the show like Jon did with the armor plate duo direwolf. He did wear his head to head cape dire wolf at the red wedding🥲. Sansa crown was inspired by that cape like that nod.
@@mappingshaman5280 it's one of his many nicknames . " The Usurper " is more badass but The Unbroken fits him more . Just like you said he got crippled and almost died at Rook's Rest but he always kept fighting even with an seriously injured half blind dragon
That Tyrion sigil is not canonical as a personal sigil. Just Elio conflating his fanfic additions with actual canon again. He added it based on a shield Tyrion was given during his time as Hand, and used for the battle of the blackwater.
The funny thing in real life im pretty sure the more boring a family's heraldry was ,the older and more powerful they were. I might be wrong here. But if you have a flag on a battlefield its easier to recognize, and rally around, a plain red flag than trying to figure out is that a wolf or a lion.
I always found ridiculous that the fandom used a literal seahorse for the Velaryons, and not a mythical one: heraldries did not use literal seahorses, that's so stupid
Rhaenyra has one of the all time worst personal sigils. It’s just obnoxious to have 3 houses displayed. Girl really threw the Arryn banner on there and they still barely did anything in the war lmao
Loras is in the Kingsguard currently in the books. Book Loras basically serves as a parallel to Jaime in his younger days. Skilled, handsome, arrogant, both sworn into the kingsguard at young ages, etc. Or as Jaime himself puts it: “He’s me, Jaime realized suddenly. I am speaking to myself”
@@PrinceIsot I like GoT, as much as I dislike G. R. R. Martins attack on Tolkien, I love it. But there are those mistakes I like to remove and re-do in my head canon. As far as concerns armours, weapons, heraldry. Some horrible mistakes were done there. I dont think its wrong to point them out. Next time he might do better. And make it even more awesome. But heraldry has its rules and there is a reason.
@@PrinceIsot In our world? Are you trying to be falsely above the thing or? It does. Unless you are ignorant or US redneck the Heraldry still plays a role even today. It played in medieval times and it was crucial. G. R. R. Martin derrives his fantasy world from historical reality. He failed to do some things properly. It doesnt matter how edgy or smart are you trying to be. He made mistakes. I dare to point them out. That is all. Like it or not. Do you have something valid to say or are you going to waste my time with empty yabbering?
You can find Tyrion's coat of arms description in the chapter 59 of ACOK, but it doesn't throw it in your face as a personal sigil, it appears to be just an adornment:
"His big red stallion wore crinet and chamfron. Crimson silk draped his hindquarters, over a coat of mail. The high saddle was gilded. Podrik Payne handed up helm and shield, heavy oak emblazoned with a golden hand on red, surrounded by small golden lions."
Aegon loving Sunfyre so much that he immortalized him in his sigil, and being described as his glory and on,y source of happiness will never stop being so moving to me.
Personal symbols are so damn cool. I’d love to see more of them, they tell the story of the person who bears the arms and helps to differentiate the cadet branches
After Jon finds out his true parentage in the books I feel like Bloodraven's sigil would fit him well.
@@saljpal3 Maybe he'll get a cute three-headed direwolf.
That was the sickest transition at 3:11 !
Going from the green wildfire explosion to house Tyrell greens sigil…signifying their end in the show. Mind blowing!
Walder Rivers seems like one of the underrated badasses of the realm. Jamie inmediately recognizes him as far more dangerous than his noble brothers, he is famed as a warrior, he was trusted to lead the main battle at the Twins, Lord Walder even trusted him to pass judgement across his lands.
If Jon becomes king in the north in the books, I bet his banner will be similar to Rob's, but the colours will be inverted with it being a white wolf (to represent ghost) on a black background (to represent the long night)
Well sigils are inverted if a bastard takes power but I like the idea of the white wolf representing Ghost instead of him being a bastard
@@imnotchilla9482Jon's not really a bastard though even if he doesn't know he isnt he's still a stark by blood so I'd think he'd try combine the targaryen and stark sigils together
@@TruekingoftheLeinstermen no, he still a bastard if he is Rhaegar son, because there are no way that they managed legit marriage of Lyanna and Rhaegar
@@EineMeine rheager had his marriage dissolved by the high septon and he was married to lyanna he was legitimate but I'd still consider him a stark his mother was and he was raised as a stark it's really his choice as to whether he's a stark or targareyn
@@EineMeinehope you know in the book rhegar needs a daughter not a son to complete the song of ice and fire. Visenya is stated to have basically been the conqueror dying in dorne a warm place where guess who else was at? Lynnana and rhegar at the tower of joy. Jon isn’t his son
The Golden Dragon on a Black Banner will always be one of my all-time favorite sigils in fantasy tbh. Such a dope color scheme, even if not all that different from the regular Targaryen Sigil with a Red Dragon.
(Also, I'm surprised Bronn's sigil doesn't have an arrow, instead of the chain we got)
By far the best banner in ASOIAF
well, the chains represents the big chains that where installed in blackwater bay and where used to trap stannis fleet inside the bay so they can't escape the fire.... the chains where tyrion's idea, but since bron was the man who put everything on fire, he can "claim" the whole trap for him... so yeah, i think the chains fits a lot better
Basically, a Targaryen made a King Ghidorah into a sigil.
i also love that one
@@whathell6t
Yeah, thats true, I remember jokes about that when we first saw their sigil on screen. Cool idea
Running with the theme of Dunk not having any prestigious background, his sigil just being a tree with a shooting star he remembered from a previous night, that he decided on the spot, really fits, compared to all of the sigils that supposedly have rich backgrounds
I'm guessing Viserys didn't because he was so obssessed with being the 'true heir to the Iron Throne' that he felt the only arms worthy of him was the three headed dragon of House Targaryen
He had no ✋ I M A G I N A T I O N ✋
It's kinda weird how Robb's sigil was just the wolf's head, and after the Red Wedding, the Freys stuck Greywind's head on Robb's body.
Talk about foreshadowing 😮
Walder Rivers' sigil is low-key pretty funny. "You see that castle? Yeah. It's not mine."
Aegon creating a personal sigil in honor of Sunfyre will always be the coolest to me tbh
Well that's some foreshadowing with Robb's new baner being a direwolf's head
Obreryn’s personal Sigil I think was a red viper.. cause people called him that
The beggar king Viserys just used the OG Targaryen Sigil cause he’s obsessed with his family
And finally, I love how you referenced my combined sigil
Obsessed with the power his family used to have rather than his family itself. Cause he doesn't seem to care for Daenerys much beyond her potential uses to him and his agenda.
Gods I love sigils, this video is literally a Christmas gift to me. Thank you m'lord ❤
The Baratheon sigil wasn't really 'stolen' from the Durandon's- it was adopted, because Orys married the end-of-line heiress, Argella- & as a Valyrian, his family didn't have arms like the Westerosi nobles - stolen arms is more what the Golden Company 'knights' do, because they allow a policy of assuming whatever name/ noble connections they want...
I was disappointed that HotD didn't correct the Stark sigil, leaving it as Robb's personal arms. I hope they fix it for s2- maybe they can pretend it _was_ a personal arms for one of Cregan's cousins- we never saw them, just the fact that someone for House Stark was at the tourney.
I think they'll keep it the same so all the normies that watched GoT don't get confused as to why the Starks sigil is different
Great Video!!! I love Sigils...I have my own despite my family having one already so this is perfect video
I always liked how creative and colorful GRRM made the sigils. In real life I'd say most most medieval sigils were pretty boring and basic in design but at least country and state flags are more interesting
George got most of his sigil ideas from real life medieval history. There are plenty of "boring" medieval sigils but there are plenty of exciting ones if you look for more than 2 minutes.
Your miles off, bizarre comment
Some country/state flags are kinda mid too tbh
Can't imagine many fiefs and knights were also graphic artists 😂
@fairshareofdrownedsouls idk most of the medieval sigils Iv come across are either boring or too convoluted. Whereas with George his are simple and to the point of the house or individual flying them and have good designs. Some are convoluted but it's clearly intentional depending on the character's personality but overall are solid
Long live the Gold Dragon Aegon ii
Amazing! Sigils are great! My favorite is bloodravens!
You should create a video about theories on how houses got their Valyrian Steel Weapons!
They bought them from the targs on dragonstone, which is part of why they came west but just offshore as a safe trading post. With no productive land it’s only sustainable with imports but with no exports from the land…
@@swayback7375 Are you telling me that the houses Harlaw, Stark, Roxton, MORMONT and Corbray got their Valyrian Steel weapons from trade? House Stark isn't that wealthy, and it certainly ain't wealthy enough to buy a valyrian steel sword at least 50% bigger than Brightroar which was bought by the richest house in the story. On top of that, how weren't house Targaryen the richest house after selling 23 valyrian steel swords? On top of that how did they get 23 valyrian steel weapons? They were not at all that wealthy compared to the rest of the dragon lords in old valyria. And on top of all that, how is it never mentioned that ALL of the valyrian steel weapons were bought from the same source? I just remembered that Ice was gained even before the Targaryens came to Westeros
@@swayback7375I'm pretty sure, most of houses got their swords long before Targaryans arrived on Dragonstone.
i really liked that transition from bronn shooting the arrow to the tyrel sigil, i see what you did there sir
Maekar has a quartered sigil, with all four corners being the 3 headed dragon
Lmfao that's so based
probably because he was the fourth son
Funfact: The red band in Walder Rivers coat of arms seems to be a nod to historical heraldry. Noble bastards could be granted the right to bear their fathers coat of arms, but it had a "bar of bastardry" in it to denote the bearers descent. You can find prominent examples in the heraldry of the Dukes of Grafton or House Vendôme.
Seriously, who chose a snail for their sigil?
Uthor Underleaf, a guy whose whole thing was about downplaying his skills to make money from second place prizes on tourneys and "unlikely" bets
Team Snail! 🐌 ⚔️
Snails are fearsome creatures. IRL during the medieval era they grew as large as dragons and have to be slain by a talented and holy knight.
People who aren't into fursona's
~200,000 people die yearly because of freshwater snails. Maybe a more fitting sigil than it would seem for ol’ Underleaf.
I love the heraldry in this story. It's so fun to witness them all. Thank you.
The Tyrell’s sigil really reminds me of the Tudor’s.
As shit as the ending was, i do like Bran Starks personal sigil being the three eyed raven
9:47 I love playing crusader kings 2 a game of thrones and if you play it with certain mods they appear as houses with there own homes its great
House of Tudor is literally just House Tyrell's sigil but red and white to represent the Houses of York and Lancaster.
Each personal digit are like tattoos of some old school designs but with some personal twists. Then you get people like Euron who come up with their unique ideas that shock everyone.
I love dunks/ briennes sigil the best
My family's sigil is a sun over a moon.
Not sure the colors, i only know because it is stamped on a very old family ring.
Hedge Knights need personal arms for brand recognition.
I think the wolf head is also foreshadowing
Another thing that's foreshadowing is the name of Rickon's direwolf.
What I'd like to see is a video of all the unique armor that certain Lord's wear.
What about Brienne? I seem to remember she nicked a shield and got it repainted. I do not remember the design she picked.
If I remember right I think she picked her shield to be painted the same as Sir Duncan’s
I also got Robb's personal stark sigil mixed up for all of House Stark's. That's wild, I do think Robb's is better than the base one. My favorite is the blackfish, however he is also one of my favorite character's so a little biased. I think Bloodraven's spin on the Targaryen sigil is so awesome.
Honestly I don't like a lot of the sigils and shield looks, look very STOCK image-y. Like Euron's is so badass in concept, but the actual design is just stock images. very little artwork. I don't expect them to hire artists just for fan-made websites, but some just look so offputting. Especially when you show the ones that combine house sigils at the beginning, with the four sectioned off areas.
Even then, I think that sigil is just a show invention. I don't remember Robb Stark's banner being a direwolf head in the books. Having said that, the show version of the sigil of House Arryn looks better than the one from the books.
Not gonna lie. I really think that Bronns personnel sigil goes hard.
Bloodraven's sigil is my favorite.
Suprised the sigil for the Knight of the Laughing Tree didnt show up here
Walder Rivers does not scream “I’m not a Frey” lol. He’s heavily involved with the planning and execution of the red wedding and he’s very loyal to his house
Wow, Tyrion Lannister’s personal sigil is so badass. That’s damn beautiful
A mockingbird sings. Baelish gets the information he needs by the singing of his little birds.
Like Varys or Pycelle, he has little birds that tell him all the secrets he need to blackmail, anticipate or control.
At 9:20, bottom row, the 1 that is red with a white cat, soo cute! Who is that 1?
I love Loras’ sigil. That’s my family’s crest irl
i feel like the viserys one made sense he was so obsessed with his family name he probably would cut anyone if they tried to change the sigil
Pretty sure if that part of Robb Stark making that Stark sigil is true the writers themselves didn’t know/forgot about it
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍
You forgot Jon Snow personal sigil the white direwolf
I was expecting an explanation on the snail ngl
I think knighting Bron was as much about winning him away from Tyrion as it was about his contributions to the Battle of the Blackwater. Especially in the books.
Bloodraven's sigil is so cool
If Oberyen Martell had a Personal Sigil I bet it would have a Snake in it because he’s known as the Viper and his daughters the Sand Snakes
Robb Stark simplified his to just a wolf head. Foreshadowing maybe? Like in the ways the bodies of himself and his wolf were desecrated
I always assumed that Robb originally made his own coat of arms because when he first set out he was only heir to Winterfell and wasn’t working under his Lord Fathers orders. Then kept it when he became king. It would make sense as a strategic choice to both represent The Starks whole of things could be worked out in the capital it would also be put down as an unofficial crusade by Robb. Not that Robb would be thrown to the…. “Lions?” (Can’t say wolves) but it does mean that technically Robb raised banners and not necessarily House Stark. It’s Symantec but that’s politics.
Frey's in general have personal sigils quarterings mostly
I just wanna see blood and cheese in s2
Robb Starks changing the house banner to "just a head" hmmm...
It should be noted that personal sigils are a thing irl because only the eldest son has the right to the house arms so it could be assumed that if westeros works the same that every non eldest son technically should have a personal sigil
Very cool video, but disagree that Feast is hard to get through; it’s my second favorite in the series.
I didn't know how much I needed this in my life thank you for this video
It bother me Robb didn’t wear his sigil on his armor in the show like Jon did with the armor plate duo direwolf. He did wear his head to head cape dire wolf at the red wedding🥲. Sansa crown was inspired by that cape like that nod.
Ser Clayton Suggs winged Pig is great
2:07 ZA HANDO GA KESU
No knight of the laughing tree?? Also I feel like the Darkstar should create his own sigil a la Brendan Blackfish
Like him or not Aegon II The Unbroken has the best personal sigil in the ASOIAF by FAR
I think calling a cripple "unbroken" is a huge stretch
@@mappingshaman5280 it's one of his many nicknames . " The Usurper " is more badass but The Unbroken fits him more . Just like you said he got crippled and almost died at Rook's Rest but he always kept fighting even with an seriously injured half blind dragon
That Tyrion sigil is not canonical as a personal sigil. Just Elio conflating his fanfic additions with actual canon again. He added it based on a shield Tyrion was given during his time as Hand, and used for the battle of the blackwater.
Wait? Which hedge Knight had the pink dread as their sigil? 😂
The funny thing in real life im pretty sure the more boring a family's heraldry was ,the older and more powerful they were. I might be wrong here. But if you have a flag on a battlefield its easier to recognize, and rally around, a plain red flag than trying to figure out is that a wolf or a lion.
I dig sigils
I always found ridiculous that the fandom used a literal seahorse for the Velaryons, and not a mythical one: heraldries did not use literal seahorses, that's so stupid
It is a literal seahorse in the books
Rhaenyra has one of the all time worst personal sigils. It’s just obnoxious to have 3 houses displayed.
Girl really threw the Arryn banner on there and they still barely did anything in the war lmao
BOOO Bloodraven Bittersteel's and Fireball's are great.
Fck Bloodraven. All my homies hate Bloodraven.
Muy buen video
First to take the Black 🖤
Loras was never part of the Kingsguard
Yes he is there talking about the books not the show
Loras is in the Kingsguard currently in the books.
Book Loras basically serves as a parallel to Jaime in his younger days. Skilled, handsome, arrogant, both sworn into the kingsguard at young ages, etc.
Or as Jaime himself puts it:
“He’s me, Jaime realized suddenly. I am speaking to myself”
Hey you😂 feast is my favourite book
no boltons no like
Holy shit this is rough. Please delineate between book and show
Hey
WC!!!!!
👍🏾👌🏾
Oh shit you never even read the books
I hated a lot of those sigils. They should stick to the rules of proper European heraldry. Not just to mix up random stuff as they romanticize.
It's another universe friend
@@PrinceIsot I like GoT, as much as I dislike G. R. R. Martins attack on Tolkien, I love it. But there are those mistakes I like to remove and re-do in my head canon. As far as concerns armours, weapons, heraldry. Some horrible mistakes were done there. I dont think its wrong to point them out. Next time he might do better. And make it even more awesome. But heraldry has its rules and there is a reason.
@@wolfvonturmitz5652 okay that's great, it doesn't take place in our world, idk what you don't get about that
@@PrinceIsot In our world? Are you trying to be falsely above the thing or? It does. Unless you are ignorant or US redneck the Heraldry still plays a role even today. It played in medieval times and it was crucial. G. R. R. Martin derrives his fantasy world from historical reality. He failed to do some things properly. It doesnt matter how edgy or smart are you trying to be. He made mistakes. I dare to point them out. That is all. Like it or not. Do you have something valid to say or are you going to waste my time with empty yabbering?
nice one mate