10:50 Dude this butterfly just kept coming back for more. What a *legend.* Even did a slow motion Matrix dodge on the third shot when it bounced back lol
Came here looking for this comment. I thought he got wrecked by that third shot for sure. BUT NO... little dude had bigger balls than the ones that were being fired at him.
I see a lot confusion in the comments about the term "less lethal." Keep in mind historically this term came into use after people died from so called "non-lethal" weapons. This was an admission that it could still be lethal in certain circumstances, but was intended as to be less likely to cause death and thus lower in the force continuum.
*shoots protester with rubber bullet from point blank range :0 omg why didn't the manufacturer explicitly warn me about the potential lethal result of this extremely stupid action I took
Oh sure as I think judge Judy would say, you inherit the condition of whom you're assaulting. Even a simple shove is lethal to older or more vulnerable people, let alone shock/heart attacks in a chain reaction, possibly with obese/out of shape. 15:10 was fun I admit.
@@ChiTownGuerrilla bryna seems to move very slow. But a peper ball in the back of the throat or rubber round to the temple or back of throat may cause suffication then it would be lethal. Even pepper spray is LESS LETHAL never know with allergies
Marine here, OC spray is no joke. We were informed that if we're to get this stuff off quickly and efficiently, you lather soap on yourself BEFORE getting wet. The water will reactivate the deterrent chemical and cause you more pain, as a friend had found out, sweat reactivates it too.
I live in Mishawaka, IN. 6 months ago, I had an intruder at 3am. come into my home. I purchased the Byrna XL a few months earlier. I hit the intruder twice in the chest and once in the knee at about 30 feet. I was informed by the detective two days later that the knee round fractured his knee in several places, and the chest rounds broke two ribs and penetrated flesh. The detective did tell me that had a headshot been done at that range, it would probably have been a fatal shot. It's a good alternative to my Glock inside my home in case I miss. And yes, I accidentally cracked a max round while loading, and that little bit of OC that carried in the air burned my face for a good 30 min. I can only imagine what a direct hit must feel like.
yes its true. These are very good if you dont want to use lethal, and they can also be lethal if the perp takes a head or neck shot using the kinetic rounds at 30' or closer. I own 3 of these Byrna pistols. I have one in my jeep with 4 extra clips ( 1 OC and 3 kinetic), and I keep one in my bedroom on my nightstand and another in my living room on my end table. I also own 2 glocks that in an emergency when I need lethal, then those are my first choice. I have tried 3 different less than lethal pistols, and this is by far the best
You didn’t mention the best part about byrna HD. The CO2 canister doesn’t get punctured until the first trigger pull. You can leave the gun in storage ready to rock for a VERY long time and still have gas. I’ve had mine well over a year and the canisters stay ready for as long as I need them.
As someone who shoots* CO2 BB guns (well mainly my dad's old Daily Powerline 1200 that I inherited), that's what I was worried about. But if that one allows you to keep the gas in the container and only puncture when in use, that's fine.
Your video was instrumental in my research regarding less than lethal options for self defense. I appreciate how dedicated you were to giving your viewers such an in-depth experience, without having to actually do it ourselves. I cannot express how grateful I am to your informative video. THANK YOU.
In my Self defence class at university, our lecturer, local court expert on ballistics and cold weapons, was once telling a unusual cases that he worked on. One of them was administrator of a pond, that bought a gas gun, loaded with the tear gas pellets. One day he caught two teen-agers fishing without permit. They started running, he followed. When they weren't stopping, he started shooting, all while still chasing them. Only problem was that the wind was blowing towards him and he inhaled everything contained in those 15 or so gas pellets, getting knocked out cold. The kids who he chased after noticed and called an ambulance, week after that, the mayor gave them the city award for saving the dude from suffocating. 😅
Not supposed to pursue for so many reasons lol let alone that's no longer self-defense based on the laws in your state. But that's a funny reverse story where they're not such bad guys compared to the wind of change blowing lol.
Scott, I'd like to see you revisit these less lethal guns in the winter just to see the effectiveness of the CO2 cartridges when they've been exposed to the cold. I used to do oil furnace work, and one of my tools was a device that used CO2 cartridges to clear frozen oil lines. I had to warm the cartridges up in my pockets before I could use them. I imagine if you had one of these stored in a vehicle and you needed it the reduced pressure in the cartridge from the cold temperature could be problematic.
I agree, we use to play paintball in the winter and the CO2 would give us all kinds of troubles, compressed air cartridges with a gauge might be better.
roofers burning rolls of tar roofing onto buidings during cold months in my country, usually have to torch the gasbottles every now and then to keep them hot enough to keep the pressure up... It feels REAL scetchy roasting a bottle of pressurised gas with a torch! :D
@@JokerInk-CustomBuilds Sometimes we’d use a handheld propane torch to thaw out sections of frozen oil lines, but there were coworkers who were stupid enough to try warming the CO2 cartridges with it. We had one guy rupture one with a torch. Didn’t get injured, but he definitely soiled his shorts.
The intended target with the pepper balls is the center of the chest. That allows them to atomize and be ingested more effectively. Our agency had a full-auto pepper ball gun and it was very effective.
@@d33p345 no. The powder mixture that’s in them tends to rise when it bursts. Also, if you have a badge and you target anything above the nipples, you had best be justified in using lethal force.
@@d33p345 while they are correct about the chest and dispersal, one other reason they don't tell you to shoot in the face is because of liability. The OP mentioned he was working with some sort of agency, which would be sued for hospital bills no matter why the person was shot. Also I'm sure Byrna doesn't want to encourage shots that would possibly cause lasting damage either. Plus, you don't need to. Chest is fine for the powder balls. But I've got a mixture in mine(half pepper staggered with hard nylon/steel) and I intend to put half into the chest and if that doesn't stop the situation, the rest are going to the face. I'll accept liability if I have to as a private citizen. I've replaced my car gun with one of these. No need to hesitate or second guess since it won't be fatal(I live in a city and driving is pretty dangerous)
As somebody who is a moderate supporter of Byrna, I have their Mission 4, TCR, and both handguns. I have been hit with the pepper balls, the eco-kinetics and the Max kinetics. I’ve also been shot once before with a 9mm round. If somebody were to pull this out on me and I had no kind of understanding the type of projectile launcher it was or even gun, I would think these are actual rounds that are hitting me. They burn, they hurt, they make me want to get out of there and that’s what less lethal is. It’s to disorientate and not to do anything else but that. A little on the pricey side but overall, a great product.
Butterfly Timeline 10:53 to 11:05 the butterfly kept coming back. 11:04 it evades the bullet bounce and it was almost like it was saying "come on you gotta better then that to hit me" 11:09 it had second thoughts and dipped out right before the magnificent *HEADSHOT* (insert cod sound effect here). EDIT: 12:24 it came back to say Hi before returning to the wild 2nd EDIT: Cant believe this blew up the way it did 800+ likes Thank You so much 3rd EDIT: Watching again i saw the butterfly zipping around at around 12:16 Side note - He really seems to like the Shirt and being around Kentucky, maybe he's checking to see if the Recoil was too much for poor old Kentucky( JK - looking like a beast KB) 1.2K Likes??? 😂I will keep checking for more animals in other videos - Good Luck and Amazing Days
Scott, you don't need to change CO2 cartidges every time you shoot. Unlike PCP guns, CO2 guns actually have liquified gas inside, meaning the pressure is always the same (co2 evap. pressure) as long as there's liquid CO2 left in the cartidge. Only the very last shots (when there's only co2 gas left) have some drop in power
Wait, has the gas law been repealed? You know, pv=nrt? Unless it has, that's the wrong answer. The drop is less than you'd find in a PCP, but it is non-negligable.
@@tenchraven It's negligible because it's the evaporation pressure of liquid CO2 the only thing that's exerting pressure on the gas itself, and at a constant temp. it's a constant pressure, besides since the volume of gas is regulated to be the same for each shot, the energy transferred to the pellet/ball is the same too
Yep but on the up side it takes the worry about having to reload. Your only going to get probably 5 or 6 really hot shots, you should be running by then if the perp isn't! Oh and the hotter the better, leave it home if it snowing.
True but for the sake of comparison (and screwing around) the results are more reliable to change every time. And we all know there would be a bunch of smarty pants in the comments saying some of the tests aren't fair if he didn't change out canisters. Better to shut them up ahead of time.
I’m surprised. This looks like it would actually be pretty effective however there is a certain amount of irony in that the “devastator” rounds are getting close to just being normal bullets.
@@duckshot thanks Captain obvious. You don't need to break the seal when you store it so it can be ready to go as a non lethal self defense item at a moments notice
Actually Umarex makes the "T4E by P2P HDP .50 Caliber Air Pistol " its the semi auto version of the HDR revolver looks like they used a Walther PDP as the model for it (fits all Walther PDP holsters too) I regularly pop the hard rubber balls through multiple layers of cardboard at 60 feet to demonstrate its effectiveness and we have tested the .50 cal pepperball rounds on 4 volunteers (three are ex marines and one Army ranger) they are VERY effective! 2 hits to the chest brought all 4 to their knees non stop snot running from nose and for all intents and purposes blind until milk was used to neutralize the OC/Pepper combination.... I keep one next to the G19 as an alternative to lethal force...I load 2 rubber balls as first outa the barrel then 4 pepperball rounds
i own this HDP pistol, but since in germany we're limited to 7.5joules of muzzle energy, anything but the pepper balls is absolutely ineffective against attackers. 7.5joules with .50 cal plastic or rubber balls is like paintball level in terms of pain. but for 75€ (a bit less than 80US$) it's a fun pistol to plink in the backyard.
I work at a Big 5 so I've sold a couple of those and I honestly wonder if it was worth it. With my discount and on sale it came out to 90 dollars. Its great and all but my god is the most inaccurate thing I've ever shot. Even if you miss all your shots its still pretty loud
@@Succnastys they shoot round balls through a low quality aluminium barrell. no wonder they're inaccurate. but as long as you can hit a mansized target at 10 to 15meters, it's enough. i've seen a german shop offer an aftermarket stainless steel barrell, which is polished on the inside, if you fancy burning some money on that thing.
That poor butterfly just wanted an up-close view! I've always wondered how worthwhile these things are. We had a neighbor with a very aggressive and uncontrolled dog growing up and my dad had to use paintballs to deter it once. Seems like that would be about as effective as some of these.
Ever had a paintball bounce off you instead of break? It'll usually leave a hickey-looking bruise. I think the big plastic pellets would be similar, though probably a bit worse. Probably wouldn't stop someone who actually wanted to hurt you. The steel ones seem more effective, but also could be classified as deadly force in many jurisdictions. Less-likely-to-be-lethal defense is very tricky.
@@willgund779 They won't get embedded in your flesh. Ballistic gel is not like skin, especially on a hot day. Even the steel ones would probably bounce off your skull, though they might crack it and would definitely leave a pressure cut. It's a myth that ballistic gel is equivalent to flesh, especially the 10% stuff used by the FBI and most commonly sold. 40% gel might be pretty close to the density of muscle tissue, but unless you cover it with leather or something, it's not going to be the same as hitting a person.
In the '80s when the first powder charged paintball guns came out. We used to freeze our regular paintballs to punish the bastards that brought those onto the playing field
I have to say, I’m very impressed by your combination of well spoken smart guy who knows his guns and absolutely bonkers Neanderthal. Watermelon time, table throwing and random memes are all great. Just found your channel a few months ago and I’ve been watching all your videos, love it.
the fact that Scott's acting on the intros is better than most movies nowadays is truly amazing considering he's usually talking about shooting, running over, or stabbing a dinosaur the majority of the time
Prolly cause scott doesnt diddle kids 😤 the hollywood degeneracy is despicable, id watch kentucky ballistics act out every character of a movie by himself before i consume any more of their garbage let alone pay to see it 😤
My wife has a Byrna and my dad and I were testing it out. We used the normal pepper balls and shot our garage door and it put a nice dent in it. Then I shot a piece of 1.5" butcher block I had laying around and it left a 1/8" dent in the wood. I would NOT want to get hit with that. On top of that the pepper spray was pretty bad and jacked us up just being in the vicinity of it. 3 or 4 months later I moved that piece of butcher block to a different area in the garage and the pepper spray got me again! Just as potent as when we shot it! HAHA! Great video as ALWAYS man!! Keep them coming!!
That thing all tuned up, with mods and the right rounds is pretty mean. I have one that's 4-450fps with the heavier stuff you can load in and I definitely wouldn't even wanna take the standard rubber balls from it. It's fun to plink with something that has some thump to it too. Really didn't expect as much as it does.
@@snarklar seeing this demonstration really makes me want to get one for sure. I have a could other things I'm trying to get at the moment but this one is definitely now on that list.
In my years of playing paintball, 400+ fps is mighty painful. It hurts like hell to get hit when it breaks, but the difference is staggering when it just bounces off. All that energy is left behind like getting punched by a kung fu master
Yep, same here. I got hit in the neck right on the jugular vein by a guy who we clocked at 315 fps, and I actually lost consciousness for a few seconds. Woke up on my back.
I caught one to the bare thigh through a hole in my pants, still have a scar. Not sure what fps but it was a starter kit cranked to the max, my guess is 350 or so. The urgent care thought it was a pellet gun
If you go frame by frame it actually didn't, the slo-mo sped up right around that time making it look like it did but the butterfly made it past safely.
I actually have a HDR and there's some interesting things to know about them. Primarily is that they are easily modifyable. You can put different valves in them to change the power of the gun, as well as longer barrels. Parts are fairly easy to come by, or you can get pre-built kits. Also there's a variety of second party ammunition, one Scott didn't have are these rubber balls with steel powder mixed into them. There's also pepper filled balls but at .50 caliber I think they're just too small to be effective, not to mention being insanely expensive.
I also have one with said modifications from MCS, tuning barrel and power kit. I got some 50 cal ball bearings off amazon. Yeahhhh, that could definitely get you into some trouble and a possible manslaughter charge.
Great stuff! Umarex, maker of the revolver, now offers two higher capacity "shotgun" versions of these "launchers" that will fire approximately 16 of the pepper ball rounds. They also have a .68 cal double barrel shotgun that has been available for awhile now. People are offering much more devastating rounds than the "Devastator" rounds you used so effectively in this video that would definitely do even far more physical damage. "Airgun Alley Miami" has done numerous videos demonstrating numerous airgun pistols and ammos, including Umarex and the new Byrna LE, that is much more powerful than the Byrna tested in this video and now holds 2 more rounds for a total of 7. Personally, if the situation allows, I will repel with a mixed load of pepper and hard riot balls; otherwise, a firearm is obviously the right choice if it's you and/or your loved ones and/or innocent bystanders versus wannabe murderer(s).
Those bursting balls remind me of a product I read about a few years ago that was intended for riot control. It was basically a standard 0.68 paintball filled with a mix of some pepper spray and a UV dye. Suppress and mark troublemakers in one go. And I just read today in TH-cam comments, so take with a grain of salt, but apparently many civilian available pepper sprays also contain a dye of some sort these days, at least the good ones.
@@rdrrr That's nonsense. Families of the person can, and will, sue you. Also you can, and likely will, get prosecuted by the law if your self-defense situation seems odd-- more so if it ends up being a homicide. The person not being alive doesn't automatically mean you're free and clear, no questions asked.
@@Lusterredux Yeah, I know. I was being facetious. Preserving life is a good thing... although it sure costs the state a lot of money to incarcerate someone.
@Thumbs Up Thumbs Down Report - Official channel I’m not saying this specific gun. All I’m saying is less lethal doesn’t mean not lethal, you don’t have to be so literal
i kind of feel like these weapons fall into two scenarios 1) ideal for someone with small children who want to mitigate the risk of injury to their kids if the kids happen to get their hands on them (my neighbor asked me about a similar product recently for that very reason) and 2) someone who is either new to firearms or is considering getting a concealed carry permit and is trying to determine if they are comfortable with that. Being a less lethal weapon, i can see where its use may cause fewer legal hurdles to overcome if it is used in anger, however, most engagements happen at between 7 and 15 feet and i feel like using the max rounds that close could compromise the shooter as well. there is also the consideration that if the assailant is high on certain drugs, fully lethal rounds wont necessarily stop them without multiple hits and less lethal rounds may have no effect in deterring the target.
@@spartanretro it depends on the laws in your area, although generally speaking, no. As for price, it depends on what you are getting. I don’t recall the video mentioning muzzle velocities, but airsoft and paintball usually require a maximum muzzle velocity of 300 fps for matches. Those weapons can be adjusted to fire up to 500 fps unmodified and id imagine the ones in the video are similar. As for price, depending on what you get it can be anywhere from $200-$500 based on what I’ve seen in my area.
Thanks for this. None of the other videos come close to showing the real world power of these other than the one of the dude shooting into ballistic gel in his back yard. Mine just arrived in the mail today. I think there’s a ton of situations where this is “good enough”, and also won’t permanently damage your hearing if you had to fire it indoors.
The thing with the Byrna is the CO2 cartridge isn't punctured until you take the first shot, so you don't have to do that extra step. With the other gun if you heard a bump in the night, you'd waste that CO2 cartridge because you'd have to puncture it before you checked out the noise so you could shoot quickly if needed. Neither gun will hold pressure for very long once the CO2 cartridge is open.
I'm rather late to this video but I figure I would give my honest opinion about the Byrna SD. I own both a Byrna SD and a Glock 23 for home defense. And I haver to say, I LOVE my Byrna. I have it as my primary "walking the dog" or quick "late night snack run" option. It's powerful, deterring, and compact enough to conceal here in Indiana most months. I do however, recommend that this be used as an alternative only for personal self defense in areas where a gun my not be acceptable or for the most part viewed as unacceptable. For home defense I truly believe lethal force is not only warranted, but also at times necessary. So overall the Byrna is an excellent option for self defense, just understand its limitations and IMO should not be used for home defense.
Thanks for the info! Sadly, in some US states, it’s not legal to shoot someone who invades your home. I live in one of those states. They have to have a weapon in order to legally shoot, and it would probably be too late by the time you figured that out. I’m a young woman who lives alone, so that prospect is especially scary.
Great clip! Wish we were lucky as you guys here in India, can’t even possess a 556 shell without going to jail for 2 years and get death penalty for consuming beef and getting breten up for being a Roman Catholic and attending church let alone buy a gun for defense! Brings a tear to my eye I hope to visit the US someday! Much respect to the USA!
Would you consider owning a gun to be really cool then? More cool than usual i mean lol. Cause as a new yorker who moved to arizona i was blown away at how easy it was to get a gun and i love all my guns a lot more cause of that lol.
Yeah, that’s true. But the attacker would probably run away at the first shot, ‘cause oc + tear gas is a devastating combination, and if you mag dump it on a potential threat… they would have a bad time
@@mohamedkallon1491 Yeah but you've gotta aim precisely and the guy has to let you point your gun at his head while you're right next to him. That's not effective in all scenarios if you ask me. If you're 10 yards away it's just gonna bruise him. Personally I wouldn't carry one of these unless it was my only option.
@@pokeyrebel253 you obviously never owned one, I don’t have to get close on anything bubs.I’m a licensed firearms owner and I can confirm the 11 joules TR50 can brake skin
@@mohamedkallon1491 Who cares if it can break skin? you think breaking someone's skin is going to incapacitate them? I break my skin pretty much every day; it's not that big of a deal. To be effective, it would need to do enough damage to make the person you shoot with it unable to cause you anymore harm (ie. incapacitated)
I’ve played with a umarex revolver in paintball. They’re rugged and very durable. Never had an issue or a broken ball (even having a bit of dirt at the end of the muzzle)
The Byrna launcher is roughly 400+ fps with projectiles at .68 cal in size. This makes for a hard punch with the kinetic rounds in the midsection of an assailant. As for HDR50 from Umarex, they sell at 7.5 joules (which is appropriate for paintball) but also 11 joules which means the projectiles are moving 450+ fps. There's also pistol style less lethal markers at .43 cal but these work best with a chemical irritant (pepperball) as the first shot with a subsequent kinetic round.
There is a bunch of upgrade kits on homedefence-24 for the HDR. It can go up to 100 joules with a CO2 bottle adapter, which is definitely not very healthy for someone at the receiving end. There are some vids on here where you can see what it does to steel and wood.
@alfonso7851 Check out the 68 cal from Umarex too then- lots of similarities. If you look for their T4E line you should find it. That one is officially 16J too.
@@FuerwahrhalunkeI don't want 100 joules. It's no longer less lethal, I have upgraded umarex 68. Shotgun and I guesting if someone survive that. I'm sold on the Umarex.
The Byrna Kinetic rounds are designed to inflict pain and to specifically not penetrate. The big benefit of the Byrna is the max rounds. You get hit, you are done. Great video!
@@code_red7744 To be honest actual rounds aren't always going to stop someone on PCP. Local story years ago was a guy took down two officers who dumped full mags into him before a third hit him with the rifle. He came flying out of his trailer high as cool be on PCP. Best case scenario if you are using less lethal firearms for home defense, use it if someone breaks in but keep a shotgun with RIP rounds nearby incase its something insane coming in.
@@nathanevans841 I would really only use one of these if someone came up to my car while driving or filling up. If there’s an actual threat the hollows or slugs are getting put to use. I do like the idea of being able to defend yourself without killing the perp. Could really change gun deaths if these were mass adopted
Those black polymer rounds remind me of "Riot balls." I have about 200 rounds of them for a paintball gun. At about 330 feet per second, I was able to put one through a section of laminate flooring. Used them as a reusable ammo for target practice and dialing in my paintball gun. Always wondered what they would do to a person. Great video! Thanks!
@@puffinondasticky Its generally a bad idea to 'pursue' and 'assault' someone who is fleeing.. even if they did steal property. Unfortunately most state's laws will turn you into the 'bad guy', and you and/or your company could get sued/face charges etc.. Now if they are attacking you, you are allowed to defend your-self of course.. and there's also 'Imminent Threat' defense, but that can be 'iffy' in some situations.. ..Generally the law wants you to: "Retreat if possible without taking any physical action, and use only the amount of force reasonably necessary to fend off the attacker".. A victim cannot instantly pull a gun and shoot an attacker who raises a fist or slaps or punches the victim without trying another way of fending off the attack, because that would be more force than was reasonably necessary.. Before assaulting or using deadly force, a victim must fear being gravely injured or killed, and that fear must be reasonable.. This will be determined by the jury, aft reviewing the available evidence, security camera footage etc. ..There's obviously grey areas to all of this, and each situation will be different, different states have different laws, different jury's might be more racist in some states etc etc.
@@rogerwilco1777 That's why the people need to hold a Constitutional Convention to form a new government that aligns with the "Natural Law" that the US Constitution was based off of.
Neat concept. Most of the less lethal guns I hear about are shotguns and the like which aren't really concealable so it's neat that you have something to fill the gap between pepperspray and a gun
@@CA58CA Umarex - the ones who make the revolver he was using - also make a CO2 powered shotgun. It's a nice little double-barrel, and it fires a .68 caliber round, and there are many different types on the market, some of them just barely "less lethal."
I think this has been the best Less Lethal test/ review I've seen thus far,I own a HDR 50 and recently got my firearm license for my Glock 19 both have their uses in different defense scenarios thanks for your great videos. Regards from Less Lethal South Africa 🇿🇦.
This is one of the best non bias non lethal options for self defense vids, I've seen in a long time. I've owned my Byrna HD launcher for several years now and I can tell you from personal experience that the pepper rounds are no joke! Now I'm thinking of add the HDR50 to my non lethal self defense options. Wow! Talk about putting a serious hurt on a would be attacker/bad guy! Thanks for the video. Stay safe and healthy. Peace
I'm concerned about leakage, how long will a cartridge last just sitting in the weapon? If ever need it to find the cartridge was empty, that would be a bad day.
@@russelltom2087 HDR 50 doesn’t pierce the cartridge until you smack the butt of the grip. Byrna pierces the cartridge on the first trigger pull. Both can be stored “indefinitely” until you need them with respect to the co2 cartridges.
@@russelltom2087 It'll last as long as you have it in the Byrna HD as long as you don't pull the trigger and pierce the C02. Once you pull the trigger and pierce the C02, I wound not leave it in for more than a few days. It will, after pierced slowly leak out. So it took me so long to get back to you. Stay safe and healthy. Peace
@@Anonymous-hx3pu Very good point. I've just recently stopped using the term non lethal and started using the term less lethal. Stay safe and healthy. Peace
Never bought the guns, but the 68cal balls are great for close target work with a 1763 French musket or a Brown Bess with some cartridge paper as patch. They also fit in muzzle loading 69cal pistols. The PVC melts only a bit, and since the black powder cartridge paper makes a sabot (insulative shoe) they come out intact and lodge in the target...doubt the pepper rounds would escape the muzzle without becoming powder. However for the pepper rounds....bear spray handy or wasp spray could just as effectively drive away an assailant.
If i remember correctly, the umarex revolver was originally marketed as a paintball gun, which could explain why the SD was considered “higher quality”
i would like to get the Byrna since car and home break ins are starting to rise in my area but for the cost of a byrna i can buy a Glock 9mm, why so much for basically an air pistol that shoots .68 cal projectiles instead of BB's
@@commiesnzombies Best weapon besides a gun and knowing how to fight (though I still recommend learning) is a flashlight. th-cam.com/video/biZ4J-tPow4/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=hard2hurt
The Byrna Co2 cart is activated two ways, first, you can put safety ON and pull the trigger to puncture the cart only. Then take the safety OFF and it's ready to fire. OR you can switch the safety OFF , pull the trigger and the cart is punctured and then the gun fires with a very slight delay.
The Hdr 50 is a fun little gun. We, here in Germany, use it with 7,5 Joule in paintball as side arm. The funny thing is, that Scott inserted the co2 cartridge with the wrong site first. I guess you used the 16 joule version, which is not legal to own in Germany without an firearms license, which is not only expensive but also have really strict rules to get one. My 7,5 Joule version was at around 300 fps with a new co2 cartridge. Also the Hdr is available in 68 caliber, there might be more types of ammunition available for.
The hdr 50 comes in 7.5joule and 11joule. In South Africa we have both. I have the 11 joule one and its potent. I think the new hdr 68 is a 16 joule one
I think the devastators were loaded backwards, as other videos don't have the sleeves ejected with the balls. That means they're even more potent than what we saw.
"Always" - 30SC is only a few months old. Give them time. I'm waiting for some PDW's to be chambered in it, maybe a radial delay bufferless short action from CMMG. I think the slightly lighter but higher pressure round would make for an awesome little backpack gun if they can manage to have mag compatibility to the 30SC pistols.
Well yeah , I guess . If you consider the 9mm the same . Most tests I have seen put the 30 super in the same class . Paul Harrel did a really good video a month or so ago on the S-30 . The advantage is more rounds in a given weapon . Lots of deaths by 9mm !
That reminds me of something. In Russia, since the 1990s, the use of conventional firearms for self-defense (pistols and revolvers) has been prohibited, "traumatic weapons of limited destruction" with rubber bullets appeared, until the mid-2010s there were no restrictions on the number of joules of energy, now this figure does not exceed 90 joules, and the weapon has become practically useless. In some cases it kills, in others it only angers the criminal, but in the end everything ends badly. In the EU countries, they tried to replace conventional pistols with "traumatic and gas" pistols, but this only simplifies the work of criminals. Putin and his gang have disarmed the population, fight for your rights. Man has not yet come up with anything better than a classic firearm.
There are two versions of the umarex. The HDR T50 with 11 joules of energy at the muzzle and the toned down T4E T50 at 7 joules for places like Canada. There is a rubber coated steel .50 cal ball that is also sold for this and there a molds where you can make your own ammo with hot glue.
Great timing on the video Scott. I just bought the Byrna SD yesterday. I couldn’t find any friends crazy enough to let me try it out. You have satisfied my curiosity and urge with this video. Thank you. Keep up the great work.👍🏻
Find some it's fun...we've shot through car windows with kinetic balls and it's gone through both door windows....and a few dumb friends let us shoot practice rounds and dropped them like a sack of potatoes i took one had bruise for 2 weeks luckily got me on side hip..nobody's accepted the oc or kinetic ball challenge yet in my group friends..but I've seen a video that should remain off internet of kinetic ball being used as self defense In road rage with 2 oc balls to finish him off....he spent a night in hospital or 2 I heard 😉
I definitely think that OC ball would be a solid deterrent. However, I advise any against using less lethal and encourage those considering it to take training classes, and to get proficient at de-escalation tactics, and carry a real firearm, where applicable. Obviously something is always better than nothing though. Great video as always
Some people just can't handle the responsibility of having lethal force at their disposal, so I'd say this would be good for such people. Definitely a waste of money if you have access and the will for firearms, though.
@@RandomPerson8492 While true, I'm rather confident the majority of those types just need more encouragement and perhaps some more time around firearms in a non-defensive more fun way. A lot of the females I know started that way. "I could never shoot someone" was something I heard a lot.
I don't know you but I think you'd likely have more trouble with killing someone than you'd realise, or at least I would hope so. Your condescension of people who have difficulty with that concept concerns me.
I'm a felon, and as such, I am limited in my choice in self defense tools. There are always the chances that you have zero ability to flea the situation without firing a couple rounds. The hope is always to avoid the situation, but it's not always possible. These are perfectly suited for me because I spend a lot of my free time in bear country and cannot legally carry a firearm.
I own both of those plus the Walther t4e 43cal less lethal. Loaded up with aluminum rounds they definitely definitely hurt like hell. As far as stopping someone from advancing... maybe. If you got someone in the throat or face from less than 10 feet away, yeah, they're going to be in serious pain. But I've had my girlfriend hit me in the back and they do hurt Alot, but I can't imagine them stopping someone who really wanted to come after you.
@@FireStar-gz2ry just go for the most pain from the beginning. You don't want to have to dump the whole mag at someone who's running at you and have it be ineffective
With this kind of thing its less about "stopping the threat" than it is "convincing the threat that they have better things they could be doing" It's kinda like the whole "I don't have to outrun the bear" thing, you just have to be enough of a pain to rob/molest/murder/whatever that they'll pick an easier target.
Just remember everyone that the T4E is capable of being upgraded with a larger valve for a lot more power. There's also some very interesting dies out there for homemade ammo.
@@iamkevindchan for some regions, they put a little part in the valve mechanism to limit the CO2 output, making the gun weaker and legal in more places. So if you take that part out, boom, more power.
@@iamkevindchan You can power it using HPA (compressed air) instead of CO2. Much more power, taking it half way to 22LR power range. With longer barrel, it's proabably be as powerful as 22 short.
I'm a felon and carry the Byrna HD for bear when I'm shed hunting. When you load a new CO2, the cartridge is puncture on the first pull of the trigger. If it's not on "safe" your first shot will be at a lower velocity than the following rounds gradually lowering in fps with every following round.
" If you got shot in the face with that stuff... you're gonna wanna get away from that person." I think that statement alone, warrants this defense method as effective. I'm all for lethal and 2A, but lets be honest, in my state of Texas its still illegal for me carry a firearm on me in state parks (which can vary, I understand) . I'd carry and use this in a heartbeat in the event that I ran into anything (or anyone ) here that may do me harm. In the end, yes, lethal works..but the legal side continues after you pull the trigger. I can literally carry this on trips out of state in the event that I'm out hiking and run into mountain lion or weirdo. Its a personal option choice.
I bought the Byrna XL and after this video I'm rather happy about my choice, not only because of the pepperball effects, but because of the overall efficiency, changing between mags for instance, and the punch it packs.
Not Knowing the actual effects on a real human I'm not sure I would be ready to trust my like or that if my family to less lethal, different people heavier clothes,like Carhartt or even a type of lightweight body armor.A "Tee" shirt is a lot lighter than say some type of heavy winter clothing,I'm afraid if I did carry one of these I would still carry a real fire arm.My concern would be air leaking out after a while I've owned air pistols that leaked.
@@Terry-mx8hl Luckily, air leaking out is the one concern you're good on. Both the Byrna and the HDR have a setup that allows the CO2 canister to remain in the weapon, without puncturing them. The Byrna specifically will not puncture it's canister until the first trigger pull. The HDR will not puncture the tank until you hit the bottom of the gun where the CO2 canister is residing. Neither weapon is something I would consider extremely effective in all circumstances, but in most conditions they would work as expected, as a deterrent, not a stopper.
No, it's HDR50/TR50 which can be modded for much more power. You can also use actual lead bullets in HDR50. HDR50 can also use PCP cannisters which makes it almost as powerful as 22 gun powder revolvers.
I’ve owned that “revolver” for about 2 years now and I never knew it could be that powerful! Hell, I thought it was just good enough to warn someone out of the house. Guess I should’ve done my research!
@@njokidd I have to agree. I have the same revolver, except mine is modded to deliver about 3 or 4 times the power of the standard one. Within two days of receiving it, I was testing it in my back yard. I see no point in owning something without knowing what it can do and what its limitations are.
@@arekpetrosian4965 agreed. I dated a girl who's father proudly announced to me he owned a S&W 38 spl revolver for home defense. And it was "bran new in the safe"...... I kept my mouth shut.
Hey Scott! Thank you soo much for making this video. I own a T4E .50 revolver as you have demonstrated in your less lethal video and was delighted to see such a complete ballistic test! I also own a T4E double barrel sawed off style .68 cal shotgun that I would love to see you test to the max. Thank you again for your great channel and all the fun and educational videos that you create for us!
@@ScaryTerryNumber1 Hey Terry! It is a powerhouse and a hefty piece of hardware that is sure to start a conversation. It is very accurate as the mass of the projectiles that it can run on is very large and stays on course. The impact is devastating with self defense rounds and a double blast is sure to knock your target back a few steps. On the paintball field, no cheater on "God mode" can deny getting a blast from these barrels. Having all that power makes the gun thirsty though and my suggestion is to run a line with a decent tank for hours of fun without having to frequently unscrew the plug and swap out CO2 canisters. This gun is gorgeous, powerful, realistic as it can get for an air gun and a crown jewel of my collection. Thank you for reaching out and hope that you will have one soon yourself!
@@sami_am7860 Hey Sam. I feel your frustration with some if the outlandish prices for our passions! This piece had cost me a pretty penny in Canada as well but there are some items in this field that resonate so strongly with the collector that becomes a MUST have. I promise that when you get around to treating yourself to this gorgeous beast it will feel even more rewarding and exciting to own a true legend that you've anticipated for some time! Life is a BLAST 😉
@@nickmikhelson5754the good thing about living in SA is that second hand firearms can be purchased at ridiculous prices. This is as a result of stringent firearm laws that caused many people to rather get rid of their firearms. Firearms were handed in to the police to destroy (but through the hands of corrupt police officials landed in the hands of criminals), or alternatively sold at ridiculous prices. I am very well acquainted with the staff of a particular armsdealer in Cape Town and have purchased a pre-war Walther PPK for $90, a a Walther PP Sport for $30 and a Bernadelli Model 60 for $18, all in very good shape. They provide me with a lot of fun, but that shotgun would really be gre at.In fact, thinking about it, I would probably be able to purchase an excellent second hand 12 gauge for less than the Umarex. Then again, the Umarex would be a great investment for security work. Hope you get rid of your prime-minister soon!
Thank you so much for doing this video! I have wanted to see some less lethals vs ballistic dummies for some time now. In my opinion, the OC/Tear gas blend sounds awesome, but the Byrna doesn't seem to produce projectile velocity like the HDR50. I'm gonna say that their proprietary rounds are quite impressive, but the Umarex performed better in this test. Well done!
They also make a specialized holster for the HDR that allows you to carry an extra clip actually pretty well made too it has a trigger safety so it can't just be pulled out of the holster
I just got the Byrna SD XL and it is a .68 cal projectile. The cap can be unscrewed with a regular hex key. I thought using a magazine was a little awkward, but you always have the tool to open and tighten it if you've got a mag. One other thing, don't by the 12g CO2 cartridges and the practice projectiles on their website. You can find much better deals on other websites. Just make sure you read the reviews. You'll see some that will say that the .68 cal balls are just a little too small and the projectile will roll out the barrel before you fire. Jawbreakers nylon balls have worked well for me.
Whilst I will always prefer a true firearm. There is definitely merit to these tools. If it’s all you have, I think you will still perform rather well.
@@peris_arts_film9699 it's better than nothing in areas that try to restrict your right to defend yourself. Even though I have two carry guns, I have considered getting a less than lethal for situations where an assailant is unarmed and I'd rather try to incapacitate first ( but keeping a handgun as backup because, well, drugs are a thing)
@@peris_arts_film9699 The thing is: at a distance, it looks enough like an actual firearm to be an effective deterrent, and if it gets up close and personal, at point blank range they are every bit as lethal as their powdered counterparts...
You could tell right away the 'revolver' was going to be stronger because of how much C02 it used per shot compared to the 'automatic' one when 'emptying' the air. You got at least double the number of air-slugs from the auto then the revolver. Mind you, the auto had those awesome pepperball rounds....for hurting someone, the revolver. for driving someone off, the auto.
They make the pepper balls for the revolver. I just ordered me the .68 cal model of the revolver and some PepperBall Live SD with 2.0% PAVA. After 3 of those I got 2 more .68 cal Devastator rounds. The .50 cal gets 6 shots while the .68 cal gets only 5.
I have both devices you used in this video and can assure you either one can be nasty however my favorite is the Byrna with a mix of kinetic and max rounds a nasty and effective combination, keep doing what you do
I have to imagine that has to feel like getting blasted by chemical warfare and then getting punched in the face several times. All from a couple feet away. Unless that person was insane, that is enough to get anyone to leave.
Yeah I would only aim for the face with a less lethal. Shooting in the gut only works with you know lethal. Your getting painted in the face lol I wish Byrna would come out with something more powerful or a more devastating round than the kinetics
You can also get OC pepper rounds for HDR50/TR50. For price and versatility, HDR50/TR50 is much better option for most people. And it can also be modded for much more power if necessary.
Thanks for the comparison been debating on getting a byrna. With the oc ammo feel like it would make an attacker think twice if you shot emm with one of those and don't have to worry about catching a murder charge trying to stop a idiot from doing what they do best.
Kinetic rounds: You want to discourage the attacker Max rounds: You want to incapacitate the attacker Devastator rounds: You’re not allowed to own a real gun
I would prefer OC to both CS and CN, though I would take the taser over all the above. I’ve been sprayed a few times directly and caught spray back on occasion, which was enough as when I was sent for aerosol instructor agent training and was told we would be sprayed over 4 dozen times and gassed another dozen I was out. I will say that one of the worst things I’ve experienced was a dry chem agent for cell extractions and crowd control which was like being on fire from both the inside and outside simultaneously. Decontamination is just so much easier with OC but not even close to the rapid recovery from the taser.
If I am firing these balls, I am gonna take advantage of distance. Magazine loading is the better option, I think, cuz you can rapidly swap out [a ceramic option, as well as a few more are now available] loads. The pepper balls should be treated like grenades, and more or less used as such. If my misspent youth is right, loading a ceramic on top of the peppers will deal with that pesky "safety glass" issue that may crop up.
Loved the video, but really wondering what power his HDR 50 had. Also something note worthy there are way, way more then 3 types of ammo for the HDR 50 including pepperballs, steel balls, glass ball and even slugmakers so can make your own ammo. Also availible are power upgrade mods for the HDR 50 so you can upgrade the power up to 20+ joule, however 20+ joule isnt always legal in every country. I admit, the Byrna looks cooler... But when you go for price, power and versatility the winner is HDR 50.
Yes max power for HDR50 far higher than Byrna. I've seen a guy mod it to 90+ Joules using HPA and it's clearly no longer "less lethal". Also another big bonus as you mentioned is ability for HDR50 to use virtually anything even home made ammo (hot glue/bb rounds, cast lead bullets) as ammo.
These guns seem to do what they're supposed to pretty well, but my one concern is that it looks like all of the shots from those weapons have a serious risk of ricochet. Even from the longer distance, the rounds that don't explode do come back pretty fast, and one of the ones fired from point blank actually came right back and hit the gun right in the barrel's opening. I understand that if the rounds are specifically designed NOT to penetrate deeply that the risk of the rounds coming back at you are a bit higher, and most of the time you probably aren't going to be unloading entire magazines point blank into someone's skull. At that point you might as well just be using a regular gun. All in all I'm pleasantly surprised how consistent they performed. I went into the video expecting some garbage plastic guns that shot spit balls instead of actual ammunition, but yeah, they did what they said they would. Pretty good!
@@Sheridantank I said barrel opening specifically because I didn't mean going down the barrel. My intention was to clarify that It just hit where the opening was, not down the barrel. Though I can see why someone could read the comment and see that. Your wish has been granted. I'm gonna go make some eggs for breakfast you want some?
I definitely think a real firearm would hurt more (especially pistol rounds) because they bore far into you, but pistol rounds do not usually go through the target, leaving you with a hole in your chest and led buried into you, which as you could guess hurts very bad.
Went to big 5 to get a new folding table for the range the other day and they were out. I blame you, but it carries little weight. Great video as always!
I have de HDR 50 11 Joules (I presume that's the version seen in this video) and, appart from enjoying it so much, I suspected it was more or less effective as a deffensive weapon... now thanks to this funny and excellent video I'm sure about it. Thank You. Regards from Girona - Catalonia.
Thank you for this video. I believe this is a great compromise for a self defense option for people who don't want to transition to buying actual guns.
Not just that getting a actual gun especially in California you have to jump through so many, many hoops for self defense bryna gives you the ability purchase self defense now when you need it and not many months down the line.
The HDR50 comes in 6 joule, 11 joule and 30 joule models. The 6 is for Paintball. The 11 home defence. You can mod it to 30 with an after market valve. If you do this AND live in the UK then unless you have a Firearms license and you get caught, you might be looking at some time. A lad was jailed for 5 years in Newcastle last year for a modded .22 air pistol revolver that had been cranked to 20 joules. The courts treat it like a firearm.
I think that the Byrna with the CS rounds or the hard kinetic rounds are more effective and less lethal specially with the CS effects considering your reaction just getting second hand exposure to it. Where the other weapon you actually got penetration that could become lethal if hit in the wrong place. Plus the Byrna looks like it is easier to load and recharge.
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Does the king reply?🔥🔥
Okay
Hi Scott
Hey scott
Awesome video! Thanks for all of the time and effort you put into these videos! I always love the intros!
In my completely unbiased opinion, Houston Bones looks like a strong guy and has a powerful name that commands respect.
Hope your arm is healing fast! Miss your videos!
Hope you getting better man, I was just about to coment that you need to ty this
Get well soon!
I know there is no similarities to your names at all! Super original
Agreed
10:50 Dude this butterfly just kept coming back for more. What a *legend.* Even did a slow motion Matrix dodge on the third shot when it bounced back lol
Came here looking for this comment. I thought he got wrecked by that third shot for sure. BUT NO... little dude had bigger balls than the ones that were being fired at him.
Right??? I had to slow down my playback speed to .25 just to see it! 🤣
@@innocentdemon87 same
The pepper spray would have got him. Pepper ball best projectile confirmed
Exactly I was about to commend about it
I see a lot confusion in the comments about the term "less lethal." Keep in mind historically this term came into use after people died from so called "non-lethal" weapons. This was an admission that it could still be lethal in certain circumstances, but was intended as to be less likely to cause death and thus lower in the force continuum.
*shoots protester with rubber bullet from point blank range
:0 omg why didn't the manufacturer explicitly warn me about the potential lethal result of this extremely stupid action I took
Bryna claims to be non lethal.
Oh sure as I think judge Judy would say, you inherit the condition of whom you're assaulting. Even a simple shove is lethal to older or more vulnerable people, let alone shock/heart attacks in a chain reaction, possibly with obese/out of shape. 15:10 was fun I admit.
@@ChiTownGuerrilla bryna seems to move very slow. But a peper ball in the back of the throat or rubber round to the temple or back of throat may cause suffication then it would be lethal. Even pepper spray is LESS LETHAL never know with allergies
@@whatsmolly5741 I heard all the protesters who lost eyeballs in 2020 from tear gas canisters went camping together.
Marine here, OC spray is no joke. We were informed that if we're to get this stuff off quickly and efficiently, you lather soap on yourself BEFORE getting wet. The water will reactivate the deterrent chemical and cause you more pain, as a friend had found out, sweat reactivates it too.
that's because water opens up your pores in your skin
I don't know if it's the same thing or not but I've seen them use milk. ???
@@natnat1975given that milk is used to neutralize or tamp down whatever is in actual peppers that causes “the burning” this seems logical.
In the Navy, we got OC sprayed and ran through a battle course, to understand the effects. I agree, it's no joke lol
The burna point blank off the skull ricochet off the barrel of the gun was smooth
I almost melted, but I had a blast! I hope you enjoyed the video and thanks for watching!
You rock man we are from northern Kentucky! Me and the kids watch you all the time
Last night It was 106°
For me
The umarex HDR is cool and all, but there is much cooler and much more realistic "less lethal" or Airsoft guns out there.
lol it’s still cold in Russia
I live in Mishawaka, IN. 6 months ago, I had an intruder at 3am. come into my home. I purchased the Byrna XL a few months earlier. I hit the intruder twice in the chest and once in the knee at about 30 feet. I was informed by the detective two days later that the knee round fractured his knee in several places, and the chest rounds broke two ribs and penetrated flesh. The detective did tell me that had a headshot been done at that range, it would probably have been a fatal shot. It's a good alternative to my Glock inside my home in case I miss. And yes, I accidentally cracked a max round while loading, and that little bit of OC that carried in the air burned my face for a good 30 min. I can only imagine what a direct hit must feel like.
What rounds did you use on him? Not the OC right?
@@doylegage9499 I used the white kinetic rounds
Is this a true story bro? Seriously considering purchasing, if your story's real I will consider further.
yes its true. These are very good if you dont want to use lethal, and they can also be lethal if the perp takes a head or neck shot using the kinetic rounds at 30' or closer. I own 3 of these Byrna pistols. I have one in my jeep with 4 extra clips ( 1 OC and 3 kinetic), and I keep one in my bedroom on my nightstand and another in my living room on my end table.
I also own 2 glocks that in an emergency when I need lethal, then those are my first choice.
I have tried 3 different less than lethal pistols, and this is by far the best
Same @@shauncaswell7202
You didn’t mention the best part about byrna HD. The CO2 canister doesn’t get punctured until the first trigger pull. You can leave the gun in storage ready to rock for a VERY long time and still have gas. I’ve had mine well over a year and the canisters stay ready for as long as I need them.
As someone who shoots* CO2 BB guns (well mainly my dad's old Daily Powerline 1200 that I inherited), that's what I was worried about. But if that one allows you to keep the gas in the container and only puncture when in use, that's fine.
It doesn't have the power of the HDR and is a lot more expensive. Byrna ain't doing it!
You can do the same with the HDR and it’s much more better and cheaper
Co2 isnt reliable in cold weather, and its freezing temp as it depressurises kills valves quickly. I would never trust it with my safety
Also, The mag will hold 5 and one in the chamber.
Your video was instrumental in my research regarding less than lethal options for self defense. I appreciate how dedicated you were to giving your viewers such an in-depth experience, without having to actually do it ourselves. I cannot express how grateful I am to your informative video. THANK YOU.
What did you chose?
In my Self defence class at university, our lecturer, local court expert on ballistics and cold weapons, was once telling a unusual cases that he worked on.
One of them was administrator of a pond, that bought a gas gun, loaded with the tear gas pellets. One day he caught two teen-agers fishing without permit. They started running, he followed. When they weren't stopping, he started shooting, all while still chasing them. Only problem was that the wind was blowing towards him and he inhaled everything contained in those 15 or so gas pellets, getting knocked out cold. The kids who he chased after noticed and called an ambulance, week after that, the mayor gave them the city award for saving the dude from suffocating. 😅
Not supposed to pursue for so many reasons lol let alone that's no longer self-defense based on the laws in your state. But that's a funny reverse story where they're not such bad guys compared to the wind of change blowing lol.
Sounds like your pond administrator is trigger happy.
A pond is no reason to fire anything at anyone over, especially if they're leaving.
@@robert9595 Sounds like you can’t read buddy
@@ateague01 how so? looks like he read it just fine
Imagine shooting at someone for fishing. Ridiculous.
Scott, I'd like to see you revisit these less lethal guns in the winter just to see the effectiveness of the CO2 cartridges when they've been exposed to the cold. I used to do oil furnace work, and one of my tools was a device that used CO2 cartridges to clear frozen oil lines. I had to warm the cartridges up in my pockets before I could use them. I imagine if you had one of these stored in a vehicle and you needed it the reduced pressure in the cartridge from the cold temperature could be problematic.
I agree, we use to play paintball in the winter and the CO2 would give us all kinds of troubles, compressed air cartridges with a gauge might be better.
Nitrous oxide cartridges are an option as well. They should fare a bit better in cold weather.
Why didn't you use nitrogen?
roofers burning rolls of tar roofing onto buidings during cold months in my country, usually have to torch the gasbottles every now and then to keep them hot enough to keep the pressure up... It feels REAL scetchy roasting a bottle of pressurised gas with a torch! :D
@@JokerInk-CustomBuilds Sometimes we’d use a handheld propane torch to thaw out sections of frozen oil lines, but there were coworkers who were stupid enough to try warming the CO2 cartridges with it. We had one guy rupture one with a torch. Didn’t get injured, but he definitely soiled his shorts.
The intended target with the pepper balls is the center of the chest. That allows them to atomize and be ingested more effectively. Our agency had a full-auto pepper ball gun and it was very effective.
ok but woudl they not be more effective to the face?
@@d33p345 no. The powder mixture that’s in them tends to rise when it bursts. Also, if you have a badge and you target anything above the nipples, you had best be justified in using lethal force.
@@d33p345 no, you shoot the center of the chest, which causes the bad guy to breathe in deeply, filling his lungs and sinuses with chemical.
@@d33p345 while they are correct about the chest and dispersal, one other reason they don't tell you to shoot in the face is because of liability. The OP mentioned he was working with some sort of agency, which would be sued for hospital bills no matter why the person was shot. Also I'm sure Byrna doesn't want to encourage shots that would possibly cause lasting damage either. Plus, you don't need to. Chest is fine for the powder balls. But I've got a mixture in mine(half pepper staggered with hard nylon/steel) and I intend to put half into the chest and if that doesn't stop the situation, the rest are going to the face. I'll accept liability if I have to as a private citizen. I've replaced my car gun with one of these. No need to hesitate or second guess since it won't be fatal(I live in a city and driving is pretty dangerous)
I hope it wasn't a modeling agency.
As somebody who is a moderate supporter of Byrna, I have their Mission 4, TCR, and both handguns. I have been hit with the pepper balls, the eco-kinetics and the Max kinetics. I’ve also been shot once before with a 9mm round.
If somebody were to pull this out on me and I had no kind of understanding the type of projectile launcher it was or even gun, I would think these are actual rounds that are hitting me. They burn, they hurt, they make me want to get out of there and that’s what less lethal is. It’s to disorientate and not to do anything else but that. A little on the pricey side but overall, a great product.
I have the LE and love it by the way I also own Guns
@@CharlieVanRiper65 Always got the option of escalating! "You're not happy with the service? I'll get the manager."
@@CharlieVanRiper65me too.
but what happens when the bad guy thinks its a real gun and then they pull out a real gun? This is just a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion.
@@heatherva It's not easy to return fire with a lungful of CS gas.
Butterfly Timeline
10:53 to 11:05 the butterfly kept coming back.
11:04 it evades the bullet bounce and it was almost like it was saying "come on you gotta better then that to hit me"
11:09 it had second thoughts and dipped out right before the magnificent *HEADSHOT* (insert cod sound effect here).
EDIT:
12:24 it came back to say Hi before returning to the wild
2nd EDIT:
Cant believe this blew up the way it did
800+ likes
Thank You so much
3rd EDIT:
Watching again i saw the butterfly zipping around at around 12:16
Side note - He really seems to like the Shirt and being around Kentucky, maybe he's checking to see if the Recoil was too much for poor old Kentucky( JK - looking like a beast KB)
1.2K Likes??? 😂I will keep checking for more animals in other videos - Good Luck and Amazing Days
I’m glad someone noticed that 🤣
@@socastee_5.097 it’s the little things that barely get noticed
Deserves a Medal of Honor
@@Wolfz_Gamer 🌾 Wheat appreciate your attention to detail.
@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ No. continue to play the flutes and drums for the dreaming Azathoth, instead.
Scott, you don't need to change CO2 cartidges every time you shoot. Unlike PCP guns, CO2 guns actually have liquified gas inside, meaning the pressure is always the same (co2 evap. pressure) as long as there's liquid CO2 left in the cartidge.
Only the very last shots (when there's only co2 gas left) have some drop in power
Wait, has the gas law been repealed? You know, pv=nrt? Unless it has, that's the wrong answer. The drop is less than you'd find in a PCP, but it is non-negligable.
@@tenchraven It's negligible because it's the evaporation pressure of liquid CO2 the only thing that's exerting pressure on the gas itself, and at a constant temp. it's a constant pressure, besides since the volume of gas is regulated to be the same for each shot, the energy transferred to the pellet/ball is the same too
Yep but on the up side it takes the worry about having to reload. Your only going to get probably 5 or 6 really hot shots, you should be running by then if the perp isn't! Oh and the hotter the better, leave it home if it snowing.
I'm sure Scott is aware of this and simply changed them for consistency.
True but for the sake of comparison (and screwing around) the results are more reliable to change every time. And we all know there would be a bunch of smarty pants in the comments saying some of the tests aren't fair if he didn't change out canisters. Better to shut them up ahead of time.
I’m surprised. This looks like it would actually be pretty effective however there is a certain amount of irony in that the “devastator” rounds are getting close to just being normal bullets.
I was thinking that too, might make a good pellet gun lol
Devastators are more like Sabot rounds plastic stays in the skin and the metal should go inside the body
Except they're going way slower.
It’s just an industrial grade hole punch officer
Thosse things are getting closer to thrown rock rather than to "normal bullets"
I like that"brake seal" feature on the revolver so you can keep it ready to go and not have to worry about CO2 leakage
Byrna has the same option. No puncture until your first trigger pull.
@@leafygreentreethat LE is junk bought it leaked like hell after 5daya
once the seal is punctured you are not supposed to store it. Remove it after use. @UnknownUnknown-vv6hb
@@duckshot thanks Captain obvious. You don't need to break the seal when you store it so it can be ready to go as a non lethal self defense item at a moments notice
he wasn't talking to you. You aren't the center of the universe @@neiltessier3520
Actually Umarex makes the "T4E by P2P HDP .50 Caliber Air Pistol " its the semi auto version of the HDR revolver looks like they used a Walther PDP as the model for it (fits all Walther PDP holsters too) I regularly pop the hard rubber balls through multiple layers of cardboard at 60 feet to demonstrate its effectiveness and we have tested the .50 cal pepperball rounds on 4 volunteers (three are ex marines and one Army ranger) they are VERY effective! 2 hits to the chest brought all 4 to their knees non stop snot running from nose and for all intents and purposes blind until milk was used to neutralize the OC/Pepper combination.... I keep one next to the G19 as an alternative to lethal force...I load 2 rubber balls as first outa the barrel then 4 pepperball rounds
Scott you better get one of these and test the ammos!
I have one, and plink with .50cal steel ball bearings... 😁
i own this HDP pistol, but since in germany we're limited to 7.5joules of muzzle energy, anything but the pepper balls is absolutely ineffective against attackers. 7.5joules with .50 cal plastic or rubber balls is like paintball level in terms of pain. but for 75€ (a bit less than 80US$) it's a fun pistol to plink in the backyard.
I work at a Big 5 so I've sold a couple of those and I honestly wonder if it was worth it. With my discount and on sale it came out to 90 dollars. Its great and all but my god is the most inaccurate thing I've ever shot. Even if you miss all your shots its still pretty loud
@@Succnastys they shoot round balls through a low quality aluminium barrell. no wonder they're inaccurate. but as long as you can hit a mansized target at 10 to 15meters, it's enough. i've seen a german shop offer an aftermarket stainless steel barrell, which is polished on the inside, if you fancy burning some money on that thing.
That poor butterfly just wanted an up-close view! I've always wondered how worthwhile these things are. We had a neighbor with a very aggressive and uncontrolled dog growing up and my dad had to use paintballs to deter it once. Seems like that would be about as effective as some of these.
That butterfly had a death wish lol
Ever had a paintball bounce off you instead of break? It'll usually leave a hickey-looking bruise. I think the big plastic pellets would be similar, though probably a bit worse. Probably wouldn't stop someone who actually wanted to hurt you. The steel ones seem more effective, but also could be classified as deadly force in many jurisdictions.
Less-likely-to-be-lethal defense is very tricky.
I think these non lethal rounds are a lot more serious. They'll get embedded in your flesh, and could potentially crack your skull
@@willgund779 They won't get embedded in your flesh. Ballistic gel is not like skin, especially on a hot day. Even the steel ones would probably bounce off your skull, though they might crack it and would definitely leave a pressure cut.
It's a myth that ballistic gel is equivalent to flesh, especially the 10% stuff used by the FBI and most commonly sold. 40% gel might be pretty close to the density of muscle tissue, but unless you cover it with leather or something, it's not going to be the same as hitting a person.
In the '80s when the first powder charged paintball guns came out. We used to freeze our regular paintballs to punish the bastards that brought those onto the playing field
I have to say, I’m very impressed by your combination of well spoken smart guy who knows his guns and absolutely bonkers Neanderthal. Watermelon time, table throwing and random memes are all great. Just found your channel a few months ago and I’ve been watching all your videos, love it.
Love the casual destruction of the KB Bruiser in the 700 Nitro Express vs. Car video. My favorite KB moment to date.
I work nights and someone approached me at 3am in a dark parking lot last night. I'm looking into these now.
We need an update😂. Did you get one?
@Schallerchris973 nothing that I want to admit legally
the fact that Scott's acting on the intros is better than most movies nowadays is truly amazing considering he's usually talking about shooting, running over, or stabbing a dinosaur the majority of the time
Shoulda starred him in the newest JurASSic Park movie. Woulda been an instant improvement.
I agree, def think he'd be an awesome action movie star!
Prolly cause scott doesnt diddle kids 😤 the hollywood degeneracy is despicable, id watch kentucky ballistics act out every character of a movie by himself before i consume any more of their garbage let alone pay to see it 😤
Or assaulting eggplants 😂
@@youbetterwakeup2449 A trainwreck of a movie I'd actually watch.
My wife has a Byrna and my dad and I were testing it out. We used the normal pepper balls and shot our garage door and it put a nice dent in it. Then I shot a piece of 1.5" butcher block I had laying around and it left a 1/8" dent in the wood. I would NOT want to get hit with that. On top of that the pepper spray was pretty bad and jacked us up just being in the vicinity of it. 3 or 4 months later I moved that piece of butcher block to a different area in the garage and the pepper spray got me again! Just as potent as when we shot it! HAHA! Great video as ALWAYS man!! Keep them coming!!
Gonna be honest. The devistator revolver was a lot less "less lethal" than I thought it would be.
Sometimes “get off my lawn” isn’t a request
That thing all tuned up, with mods and the right rounds is pretty mean. I have one that's 4-450fps with the heavier stuff you can load in and I definitely wouldn't even wanna take the standard rubber balls from it. It's fun to plink with something that has some thump to it too. Really didn't expect as much as it does.
@@snarklar seeing this demonstration really makes me want to get one for sure. I have a could other things I'm trying to get at the moment but this one is definitely now on that list.
@@mk6315
Is it ever a request?
At 30 joules with those devastator rounds its going to suck to get hit with this 6 times.
In my years of playing paintball, 400+ fps is mighty painful. It hurts like hell to get hit when it breaks, but the difference is staggering when it just bounces off. All that energy is left behind like getting punched by a kung fu master
Yep, same here. I got hit in the neck right on the jugular vein by a guy who we clocked at 315 fps, and I actually lost consciousness for a few seconds. Woke up on my back.
Maxed out my paintball gun before playing against my dad. I got the drop on him and we never played paintball again 😂
I caught one to the bare thigh through a hole in my pants, still have a scar. Not sure what fps but it was a starter kit cranked to the max, my guess is 350 or so. The urgent care thought it was a pellet gun
Life is all about memories. 😁
24:12 what is the price range
11:02 are we going to ignore the fact the ricochet of the bullet hit the butterfly?
Awww... lmao
@@BoilingDietCoke Did u see it lol?
@@elijahschindler7581 I saw it! Thing had a damn death wish! I went straight to the comments to see if anyone else saw that.
If you go frame by frame it actually didn't, the slo-mo sped up right around that time making it look like it did but the butterfly made it past safely.
that butterfly was like strait up obsessed with that zombie.
I actually have a HDR and there's some interesting things to know about them. Primarily is that they are easily modifyable. You can put different valves in them to change the power of the gun, as well as longer barrels. Parts are fairly easy to come by, or you can get pre-built kits. Also there's a variety of second party ammunition, one Scott didn't have are these rubber balls with steel powder mixed into them. There's also pepper filled balls but at .50 caliber I think they're just too small to be effective, not to mention being insanely expensive.
I also have one with said modifications from MCS, tuning barrel and power kit. I got some 50 cal ball bearings off amazon. Yeahhhh, that could definitely get you into some trouble and a possible manslaughter charge.
Funnily enough...It reminded my of my airsoft H8R. It's literally the same design, just this shoots airsoft.
@@colonialf7047 It is by Umarex who do a lot of airsoft stuff (mostly H&K stuff) so that wouldn't be surprising :)
I want their HDS double barrel its only like 160 bucks. Also it supposedly 5 joules more powerful.
I have OC balls for HDR (HDP), and it is effective AF
I'm only an amateur gynecologist but that devastator to the skull looked pretty lethal...
Which one lol
true facts
hahahaha
As an amateur brain surgeon, I would have to agree.
As a beer vendor at yankee stadium I'd have to agree as well
Great stuff! Umarex, maker of the revolver, now offers two higher capacity "shotgun" versions of these "launchers" that will fire approximately 16 of the pepper ball rounds. They also have a .68 cal double barrel shotgun that has been available for awhile now. People are offering much more devastating rounds than the "Devastator" rounds you used so effectively in this video that would definitely do even far more physical damage. "Airgun Alley Miami" has done numerous videos demonstrating numerous airgun pistols and ammos, including Umarex and the new Byrna LE, that is much more powerful than the Byrna tested in this video and now holds 2 more rounds for a total of 7. Personally, if the situation allows, I will repel with a mixed load of pepper and hard riot balls; otherwise, a firearm is obviously the right choice if it's you and/or your loved ones and/or innocent bystanders versus wannabe murderer(s).
The subdued and nuanced humor of the bullet holes in the wall of Bob's Big Guns Shop... Just brilliant.
Proof that when used improperly less-lethal can still be deadly.
It's *LESS* lethal, not non lethal
Honestly less lethal is just for Cali people that cant carry guns and we'd all prefer our "less lethal" to be lethal anyways.
Hence it’s not called non lethal lol
@@jokesonyou1253 or for felons or people that are scared of guns or people under 21
@@jokesonyou1253 its for other countries with no guns or strict laws
Those bursting balls remind me of a product I read about a few years ago that was intended for riot control. It was basically a standard 0.68 paintball filled with a mix of some pepper spray and a UV dye. Suppress and mark troublemakers in one go.
And I just read today in TH-cam comments, so take with a grain of salt, but apparently many civilian available pepper sprays also contain a dye of some sort these days, at least the good ones.
I like the idea of not dealing with the consequences of killing someone
You might have to deal with the consequences of them suing you, though!
@@rdrrr That's nonsense. Families of the person can, and will, sue you. Also you can, and likely will, get prosecuted by the law if your self-defense situation seems odd-- more so if it ends up being a homicide. The person not being alive doesn't automatically mean you're free and clear, no questions asked.
@@Lusterredux Yeah, I know. I was being facetious. Preserving life is a good thing... although it sure costs the state a lot of money to incarcerate someone.
get away with it
but what happens when the bad guy thinks its a real gun and then they pull out a real gun? This is just a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion.
Remember kids, less lethal doesn’t mean not lethal.
I still find it funny that me and my friend use these and more powerful ones for Paintball
@Thumbs Up Thumbs Down Report - Official channel I’m not saying this specific gun. All I’m saying is less lethal doesn’t mean not lethal, you don’t have to be so literal
@Thumbs Up Thumbs Down Report - Official channel please just stop
@Thumbs Up Thumbs Down Report - Official channel stop
@@century21arnoldteam literally
i kind of feel like these weapons fall into two scenarios 1) ideal for someone with small children who want to mitigate the risk of injury to their kids if the kids happen to get their hands on them (my neighbor asked me about a similar product recently for that very reason) and 2) someone who is either new to firearms or is considering getting a concealed carry permit and is trying to determine if they are comfortable with that. Being a less lethal weapon, i can see where its use may cause fewer legal hurdles to overcome if it is used in anger, however, most engagements happen at between 7 and 15 feet and i feel like using the max rounds that close could compromise the shooter as well. there is also the consideration that if the assailant is high on certain drugs, fully lethal rounds wont necessarily stop them without multiple hits and less lethal rounds may have no effect in deterring the target.
Since these are essentially beefed-up airsoft guns, do you need a license to purchase one? And how much do these tend to cost?
@@spartanretro the HDR50 revolver is around $100
The byrna comes as a kit and it's around $400
I think any 'less than lethal' that looks like a real gun when flashed, is a VERY DEADLY MISTAKE.
@@spartanretro it depends on the laws in your area, although generally speaking, no. As for price, it depends on what you are getting. I don’t recall the video mentioning muzzle velocities, but airsoft and paintball usually require a maximum muzzle velocity of 300 fps for matches. Those weapons can be adjusted to fire up to 500 fps unmodified and id imagine the ones in the video are similar. As for price, depending on what you get it can be anywhere from $200-$500 based on what I’ve seen in my area.
Dont forget us Europeans, who dont have Second amendment :(
Thanks for this. None of the other videos come close to showing the real world power of these other than the one of the dude shooting into ballistic gel in his back yard. Mine just arrived in the mail today. I think there’s a ton of situations where this is “good enough”, and also won’t permanently damage your hearing if you had to fire it indoors.
Which one did you buy?
The thing with the Byrna is the CO2 cartridge isn't punctured until you take the first shot, so you don't have to do that extra step. With the other gun if you heard a bump in the night, you'd waste that CO2 cartridge because you'd have to puncture it before you checked out the noise so you could shoot quickly if needed. Neither gun will hold pressure for very long once the CO2 cartridge is open.
I'm rather late to this video but I figure I would give my honest opinion about the Byrna SD. I own both a Byrna SD and a Glock 23 for home defense. And I haver to say, I LOVE my Byrna. I have it as my primary "walking the dog" or quick "late night snack run" option. It's powerful, deterring, and compact enough to conceal here in Indiana most months. I do however, recommend that this be used as an alternative only for personal self defense in areas where a gun my not be acceptable or for the most part viewed as unacceptable. For home defense I truly believe lethal force is not only warranted, but also at times necessary. So overall the Byrna is an excellent option for self defense, just understand its limitations and IMO should not be used for home defense.
Great info, thx for sharing.
Thanks for the info! Sadly, in some US states, it’s not legal to shoot someone who invades your home. I live in one of those states. They have to have a weapon in order to legally shoot, and it would probably be too late by the time you figured that out. I’m a young woman who lives alone, so that prospect is especially scary.
@@fumikoh6231Thats ridiculous.
Leave that commie state and move home to the US.
Great clip! Wish we were lucky as you guys here in India, can’t even possess a 556 shell without going to jail for 2 years and get death penalty for consuming beef and getting breten up for being a Roman Catholic and attending church
let alone buy a gun for defense!
Brings a tear to my eye
I hope to visit the US someday! Much respect to the USA!
lol
Would you consider owning a gun to be really cool then? More cool than usual i mean lol. Cause as a new yorker who moved to arizona i was blown away at how easy it was to get a gun and i love all my guns a lot more cause of that lol.
@@kiddisley5890 yes I’d like to own a gun
Do it right and come get your citizenship, you are more than welcome here!
You should come on over! We'd be happy to have you
The OC rounds are the only ones that seemed like they would be effective in all scenarios, but if you used them close up then you'd OC yourself.
Yeah, that’s true. But the attacker would probably run away at the first shot, ‘cause oc + tear gas is a devastating combination, and if you mag dump it on a potential threat… they would have a bad time
So you ignored the devastators going threw his skull lol
@@mohamedkallon1491 Yeah but you've gotta aim precisely and the guy has to let you point your gun at his head while you're right next to him. That's not effective in all scenarios if you ask me. If you're 10 yards away it's just gonna bruise him. Personally I wouldn't carry one of these unless it was my only option.
@@pokeyrebel253 you obviously never owned one, I don’t have to get close on anything bubs.I’m a licensed firearms owner and I can confirm the 11 joules TR50 can brake skin
@@mohamedkallon1491 Who cares if it can break skin? you think breaking someone's skin is going to incapacitate them? I break my skin pretty much every day; it's not that big of a deal. To be effective, it would need to do enough damage to make the person you shoot with it unable to cause you anymore harm (ie. incapacitated)
11:02 Hits the butterfly on the ricochet, unbelievable. It flies away ok 🦋
I’ve played with a umarex revolver in paintball. They’re rugged and very durable. Never had an issue or a broken ball (even having a bit of dirt at the end of the muzzle)
1:23 my actual favorite Kentucky ballistics character, the fly, we don't get to see him much
The Byrna launcher is roughly 400+ fps with projectiles at .68 cal in size. This makes for a hard punch with the kinetic rounds in the midsection of an assailant. As for HDR50 from Umarex, they sell at 7.5 joules (which is appropriate for paintball) but also 11 joules which means the projectiles are moving 450+ fps. There's also pistol style less lethal markers at .43 cal but these work best with a chemical irritant (pepperball) as the first shot with a subsequent kinetic round.
It's 7.5 joules
There is a bunch of upgrade kits on homedefence-24 for the HDR. It can go up to 100 joules with a CO2 bottle adapter, which is definitely not very healthy for someone at the receiving end. There are some vids on here where you can see what it does to steel and wood.
@alfonso7851 Check out the 68 cal from Umarex too then- lots of similarities. If you look for their T4E line you should find it. That one is officially 16J too.
The Byrna is so expensive in South Africa and to me personally was a disappointment.
Thanks for the vid😊
@@FuerwahrhalunkeI don't want 100 joules. It's no longer less lethal, I have upgraded umarex 68. Shotgun and I guesting if someone survive that.
I'm sold on the Umarex.
11:02
Looks like it ricocheted and pegged that butterfly 🦋 🥲
The Byrna Kinetic rounds are designed to inflict pain and to specifically not penetrate. The big benefit of the Byrna is the max rounds. You get hit, you are done. Great video!
You ever watched videos of people on PCP being tased and or pepper sprayed? Either do nothing to stop them strangely enough.
@@code_red7744 Yeah PCP is another level for sure.
@@code_red7744 To be honest actual rounds aren't always going to stop someone on PCP. Local story years ago was a guy took down two officers who dumped full mags into him before a third hit him with the rifle. He came flying out of his trailer high as cool be on PCP. Best case scenario if you are using less lethal firearms for home defense, use it if someone breaks in but keep a shotgun with RIP rounds nearby incase its something insane coming in.
@@nathanevans841 I would really only use one of these if someone came up to my car while driving or filling up. If there’s an actual threat the hollows or slugs are getting put to use. I do like the idea of being able to defend yourself without killing the perp. Could really change gun deaths if these were mass adopted
@@nathanevans841 You have to do leg ,knee shots with a 9mm to get pcp zombie down ,make sure you have 17 rounds hollowpoints 😂
Those black polymer rounds remind me of "Riot balls." I have about 200 rounds of them for a paintball gun. At about 330 feet per second, I was able to put one through a section of laminate flooring. Used them as a reusable ammo for target practice and dialing in my paintball gun. Always wondered what they would do to a person. Great video! Thanks!
i work at a cellphone store and i’m about to do that for people who run off with phones as soon as i check legalities
@@puffinondasticky shooting anyone who is running from you is usually considered assault by the law. They aren't a threat to you or anyone
@@puffinondasticky Its generally a bad idea to 'pursue' and 'assault' someone who is fleeing.. even if they did steal property.
Unfortunately most state's laws will turn you into the 'bad guy', and you and/or your company could get sued/face charges etc..
Now if they are attacking you, you are allowed to defend your-self of course.. and there's also 'Imminent Threat' defense, but that can be 'iffy' in some situations..
..Generally the law wants you to: "Retreat if possible without taking any physical action, and
use only the amount of force reasonably necessary to fend off the attacker"..
A victim cannot instantly pull a gun and shoot an attacker who raises a fist or slaps or punches the victim without trying another way of fending off the attack, because that would be more force than was reasonably necessary..
Before assaulting or using deadly force, a victim must fear being gravely injured or killed, and that fear must be reasonable.. This will be determined by the jury, aft reviewing the available evidence, security camera footage etc.
..There's obviously grey areas to all of this, and each situation will be different, different states have different laws, different jury's might be more racist in some states etc etc.
@@rogerwilco1777 That's why the people need to hold a Constitutional Convention to form a new government that aligns with the "Natural Law" that the US Constitution was based off of.
Neat concept. Most of the less lethal guns I hear about are shotguns and the like which aren't really concealable so it's neat that you have something to fill the gap between pepperspray and a gun
Less lethal? shotgun? Bro shotguns can literally blow baseball sized holes in people. The gap between pepperspray and a 9mm is a taser
I’d use pepper spray before I just piss the guy attacking me off with an air soft gun
@@raviolijesus6181 I'm talking about beanbag rounds not a literal shotgun loaded with slugs, buck or the like I own several of them I'm aware lol
@@raviolijesus6181 theres less lethal rounds for a shotgun. Scott did a video on them.
@@CA58CA Umarex - the ones who make the revolver he was using - also make a CO2 powered shotgun. It's a nice little double-barrel, and it fires a .68 caliber round, and there are many different types on the market, some of them just barely "less lethal."
Just a friendly tip. You can tune the umarex to about 40J with the devastator rounds. You can tune it even more and convert it to a 88g can of CO2
I think this has been the best Less Lethal test/ review I've seen thus far,I own a HDR 50 and recently got my firearm license for my Glock 19 both have their uses in different defense scenarios thanks for your great videos. Regards from Less Lethal South Africa 🇿🇦.
This is one of the best non bias non lethal
options for self defense vids, I've seen in a long time.
I've owned my Byrna HD launcher for several years
now and I can tell you from personal experience that
the pepper rounds are no joke!
Now I'm thinking of add the HDR50 to my non lethal
self defense options. Wow! Talk about putting a
serious hurt on a would be attacker/bad guy!
Thanks for the video.
Stay safe and healthy.
Peace
I'm concerned about leakage, how long will a cartridge last just sitting in the weapon? If ever need it to find the cartridge was empty, that would be a bad day.
@@russelltom2087 HDR 50 doesn’t pierce the cartridge until you smack the butt of the grip. Byrna pierces the cartridge on the first trigger pull. Both can be stored “indefinitely” until you need them with respect to the co2 cartridges.
It's less lethal, not non lethal, that's an important distinction
@@russelltom2087
It'll last as long as you have it in the Byrna HD
as long as you don't pull the trigger and pierce the
C02. Once you pull the trigger and pierce the C02,
I wound not leave it in for more than a few days.
It will, after pierced slowly leak out.
So it took me so long to get back to you.
Stay safe and healthy.
Peace
@@Anonymous-hx3pu
Very good point.
I've just recently stopped using the term non lethal and
started using the term less lethal.
Stay safe and healthy.
Peace
The Bryna mag appears to hold .68 cal projectiles, common in the paintballing environment.
Wonder if it can shoot paintball?
@@tomothybahamothy
Why not LEO agencies have used some Tippmann products to launch pepper balls for less lethal situations.
nerd
@@crossing9892 turd burglar
@@tomothybahamothy more, importantly you can shoot those rounds out of a paintball gun, then they would be less less lethal haha
Never bought the guns, but the 68cal balls are great for close target work with a 1763 French musket or a Brown Bess with some cartridge paper as patch. They also fit in muzzle loading 69cal pistols.
The PVC melts only a bit, and since the black powder cartridge paper makes a sabot (insulative shoe) they come out intact and lodge in the target...doubt the pepper rounds would escape the muzzle without becoming powder.
However for the pepper rounds....bear spray handy or wasp spray could just as effectively drive away an assailant.
Thank you for discovering electricity, and for the record I think the picture of you on the $100 bill is very flattering.
@@patrickm4566 or you flatter me as confusing me my good and esteemed friend Ben. I'm just on the $1 bill.
For the Revolver you can also buy pepperballs
Just want everyone to know 11:00 no butterflies were hurt in the making of this video :-) LOL... Much love Scott, thank you for the content you make.
🤣🤣🤣
I saw that too lol
Bullet with butterfly wings
@@MrUnknownuser55 glad I'm not the only one LOL thought for sure it got hit, but then I saw it fly away :-)
If i remember correctly, the umarex revolver was originally marketed as a paintball gun, which could explain why the SD was considered “higher quality”
Theres 2 different ones one is a regular the other one shoots a 450FPS that one is a lil more $$ and powerful
@@fatsecurityguard2864 which one shoots 450 FPS?
@@FahimUniverse HDR50
i would like to get the Byrna since car and home break ins are starting to rise in my area but for the cost of a byrna i can buy a Glock 9mm, why so much for basically an air pistol that shoots .68 cal projectiles instead of BB's
@@commiesnzombies Best weapon besides a gun and knowing how to fight (though I still recommend learning) is a flashlight.
th-cam.com/video/biZ4J-tPow4/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=hard2hurt
The Byrna Co2 cart is activated two ways, first, you can put safety ON and pull the trigger to puncture the cart only. Then take the safety OFF and it's ready to fire. OR you can switch the safety OFF , pull the trigger and the cart is punctured and then the gun fires with a very slight delay.
Well you definitely devastated that butterfly around 11:13 during the slow mo lol
The Hdr 50 is a fun little gun. We, here in Germany, use it with 7,5 Joule in paintball as side arm.
The funny thing is, that Scott inserted the co2 cartridge with the wrong site first.
I guess you used the 16 joule version, which is not legal to own in Germany without an firearms license, which is not only expensive but also have really strict rules to get one. My 7,5 Joule version was at around 300 fps with a new co2 cartridge. Also the Hdr is available in 68 caliber, there might be more types of ammunition available for.
The hdr 50 comes in 7.5joule and 11joule. In South Africa we have both. I have the 11 joule one and its potent. I think the new hdr 68 is a 16 joule one
@@QUICKLAUNCHTACTICALTV
Hi, here in Germany, the Hdr 68 is also available in 7,5 joule. In Austria they can have a 16 joule version of both.
considering how expensive the Byrna Max rounds are, it's good to know they do what they are trying to do very well
I think the devastators were loaded backwards, as other videos don't have the sleeves ejected with the balls. That means they're even more potent than what we saw.
30 super carry and 380 acp always seemed pretty sketchy in the power department. Thanks for the deep dive.
"Always" - 30SC is only a few months old. Give them time.
I'm waiting for some PDW's to be chambered in it, maybe a radial delay bufferless short action from CMMG. I think the slightly lighter but higher pressure round would make for an awesome little backpack gun if they can manage to have mag compatibility to the 30SC pistols.
Well yeah , I guess . If you consider the 9mm the same . Most tests I have seen put the 30 super in the same class . Paul Harrel did a really good video a month or so ago on the S-30 . The advantage is more rounds in a given weapon . Lots of deaths by 9mm !
That reminds me of something. In Russia, since the 1990s, the use of conventional firearms for self-defense (pistols and revolvers) has been prohibited, "traumatic weapons of limited destruction" with rubber bullets appeared, until the mid-2010s there were no restrictions on the number of joules of energy, now this figure does not exceed 90 joules, and the weapon has become practically useless. In some cases it kills, in others it only angers the criminal, but in the end everything ends badly. In the EU countries, they tried to replace conventional pistols with "traumatic and gas" pistols, but this only simplifies the work of criminals. Putin and his gang have disarmed the population, fight for your rights. Man has not yet come up with anything better than a classic firearm.
Pretty sure there's worse things to worry about than gun laws and rights over there, at least right now
There are two versions of the umarex. The HDR T50 with 11 joules of energy at the muzzle and the toned down T4E T50 at 7 joules for places like Canada. There is a rubber coated steel .50 cal ball that is also sold for this and there a molds where you can make your own ammo with hot glue.
Yes, you can get LEE mold (designed for gun powder guns) for 50 caliber ball and cast your own ammo.
@@coldspring22🤔 concrete rounds could be fun
Scott: Meet Houston Bones.
Me: Houston, we have a problem.
Couldn't help it.
Great timing on the video Scott. I just bought the Byrna SD yesterday. I couldn’t find any friends crazy enough to let me try it out. You have satisfied my curiosity and urge with this video. Thank you. Keep up the great work.👍🏻
Find some it's fun...we've shot through car windows with kinetic balls and it's gone through both door windows....and a few dumb friends let us shoot practice rounds and dropped them like a sack of potatoes i took one had bruise for 2 weeks luckily got me on side hip..nobody's accepted the oc or kinetic ball challenge yet in my group friends..but I've seen a video that should remain off internet of kinetic ball being used as self defense In road rage with 2 oc balls to finish him off....he spent a night in hospital or 2 I heard 😉
I definitely think that OC ball would be a solid deterrent. However, I advise any against using less lethal and encourage those considering it to take training classes, and to get proficient at de-escalation tactics, and carry a real firearm, where applicable. Obviously something is always better than nothing though. Great video as always
Some people just can't handle the responsibility of having lethal force at their disposal, so I'd say this would be good for such people. Definitely a waste of money if you have access and the will for firearms, though.
@@RandomPerson8492 While true, I'm rather confident the majority of those types just need more encouragement and perhaps some more time around firearms in a non-defensive more fun way. A lot of the females I know started that way. "I could never shoot someone" was something I heard a lot.
I don't know you but I think you'd likely have more trouble with killing someone than you'd realise, or at least I would hope so. Your condescension of people who have difficulty with that concept concerns me.
I'm a felon, and as such, I am limited in my choice in self defense tools. There are always the chances that you have zero ability to flea the situation without firing a couple rounds. The hope is always to avoid the situation, but it's not always possible. These are perfectly suited for me because I spend a lot of my free time in bear country and cannot legally carry a firearm.
@@randywilliams4388 Get a black powder gun. It's legal pretty much everywhere. Yes, for felons too.
I own both of those plus the Walther t4e 43cal less lethal. Loaded up with aluminum rounds they definitely definitely hurt like hell. As far as stopping someone from advancing... maybe. If you got someone in the throat or face from less than 10 feet away, yeah, they're going to be in serious pain. But I've had my girlfriend hit me in the back and they do hurt Alot, but I can't imagine them stopping someone who really wanted to come after you.
Maybe mix up the rounds? Go from less pain-most pain. And then swap out the clip to complete oc tear gass pepper ball 😂
@@FireStar-gz2ry just go for the most pain from the beginning. You don't want to have to dump the whole mag at someone who's running at you and have it be ineffective
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 I can see your point
I think the ball bat is a better choice than either one
With this kind of thing its less about "stopping the threat" than it is "convincing the threat that they have better things they could be doing"
It's kinda like the whole "I don't have to outrun the bear" thing, you just have to be enough of a pain to rob/molest/murder/whatever that they'll pick an easier target.
Your sound effects in the beginning cracked me up 😂
Just remember everyone that the T4E is capable of being upgraded with a larger valve for a lot more power. There's also some very interesting dies out there for homemade ammo.
That sounds like a terminator model name lol.
How do you upgrade it
@@iamkevindchan for some regions, they put a little part in the valve mechanism to limit the CO2 output, making the gun weaker and legal in more places. So if you take that part out, boom, more power.
@@iamkevindchan You can power it using HPA (compressed air) instead of CO2. Much more power, taking it half way to 22LR power range. With longer barrel, it's proabably be as powerful as 22 short.
Do tell how
I'm a felon and carry the Byrna HD for bear when I'm shed hunting. When you load a new CO2, the cartridge is puncture on the first pull of the trigger. If it's not on "safe" your first shot will be at a lower velocity than the following rounds gradually lowering in fps with every following round.
I was wondering if felons can carry em I need me one
Scott: *Re-uses ballistic dummy*
Also Scott: *Proceeds to NOT re-use a table*
Edit: I know ballistic dummies are expensive dear God I was just joking
Those dummies are something like $500 a pop. Couple bucks for a table
Simple, Scott puts the tables out of their misery
@@EpicPico0625 the table's misery: *seeing Scott*
Ballistics gel dummy is crazy expensive
That ballistics dummy is 3200 dollars I was like no wonder he didn't blast it at the end
" If you got shot in the face with that stuff... you're gonna wanna get away from that person."
I think that statement alone, warrants this defense method as effective. I'm all for lethal and 2A, but lets be honest, in my state of Texas its still illegal for me carry a firearm on me in state parks (which can vary, I understand) . I'd carry and use this in a heartbeat in the event that I ran into anything (or anyone ) here that may do me harm. In the end, yes, lethal works..but the legal side continues after you pull the trigger. I can literally carry this on trips out of state in the event that I'm out hiking and run into mountain lion or weirdo. Its a personal option choice.
Scott: I think we can use him in another video
Also Scott: gratuitous destruction of a perfectly good folding table 😂
I bought the Byrna XL and after this video I'm rather happy about my choice, not only because of the pepperball effects, but because of the overall efficiency, changing between mags for instance, and the punch it packs.
Hopefully you never have to use it, but if you do, aim for the nuts if your using the hardened rounds 😱
Not Knowing the actual effects on a real human I'm not sure I would be ready to trust my like or that if my family to less lethal, different people heavier clothes,like Carhartt or even a type of lightweight body armor.A "Tee" shirt is a lot lighter than say some type of heavy winter clothing,I'm afraid if I did carry one of these I would still carry a real fire arm.My concern would be air leaking out after a while I've owned air pistols that leaked.
@@Terry-mx8hl Luckily, air leaking out is the one concern you're good on. Both the Byrna and the HDR have a setup that allows the CO2 canister to remain in the weapon, without puncturing them. The Byrna specifically will not puncture it's canister until the first trigger pull. The HDR will not puncture the tank until you hit the bottom of the gun where the CO2 canister is residing. Neither weapon is something I would consider extremely effective in all circumstances, but in most conditions they would work as expected, as a deterrent, not a stopper.
Pepperballs are a joke.
No, it's HDR50/TR50 which can be modded for much more power. You can also use actual lead bullets in HDR50. HDR50 can also use PCP cannisters which makes it almost as powerful as 22 gun powder revolvers.
I’ve owned that “revolver” for about 2 years now and I never knew it could be that powerful! Hell, I thought it was just good enough to warn someone out of the house. Guess I should’ve done my research!
You can find aluminum rounds on eBay. Those are the best rounds to use if you really want effectiveness.
You have never trialed it after 2 years? Like brought it to the range and shot a few cinder blocks or knock down steel?
Thats the sort of thing that kills me....owners with the lack of..or no knowledge of what they have and what it can and can't do
@@njokidd I have to agree. I have the same revolver, except mine is modded to deliver about 3 or 4 times the power of the standard one. Within two days of receiving it, I was testing it in my back yard. I see no point in owning something without knowing what it can do and what its limitations are.
@@arekpetrosian4965 agreed. I dated a girl who's father proudly announced to me he owned a S&W 38 spl revolver for home defense. And it was "bran new in the safe"...... I kept my mouth shut.
couldn't stop watching the butterfly at 10:55. gorgeous footage lol.
Hey Scott! Thank you soo much for making this video. I own a T4E .50 revolver as you have demonstrated in your less lethal video and was delighted to see such a complete ballistic test! I also own a T4E double barrel sawed off style .68 cal shotgun that I would love to see you test to the max. Thank you again for your great channel and all the fun and educational videos that you create for us!
I covet that double barrel shotgun of yours! Just soooooo expensive in South Africa!
Hey Nick how do you like the T4E double barrel? I've been thinking about getting one and was wondering about the performance and quality.
@@ScaryTerryNumber1 Hey Terry! It is a powerhouse and a hefty piece of hardware that is sure to start a conversation. It is very accurate as the mass of the projectiles that it can run on is very large and stays on course. The impact is devastating with self defense rounds and a double blast is sure to knock your target back a few steps. On the paintball field, no cheater on "God mode" can deny getting a blast from these barrels. Having all that power makes the gun thirsty though and my suggestion is to run a line with a decent tank for hours of fun without having to frequently unscrew the plug and swap out CO2 canisters.
This gun is gorgeous, powerful, realistic as it can get for an air gun and a crown jewel of my collection.
Thank you for reaching out and hope that you will have one soon yourself!
@@sami_am7860 Hey Sam. I feel your frustration with some if the outlandish prices for our passions! This piece had cost me a pretty penny in Canada as well but there are some items in this field that resonate so strongly with the collector that becomes a MUST have. I promise that when you get around to treating yourself to this gorgeous beast it will feel even more rewarding and exciting to own a true legend that you've anticipated for some time!
Life is a BLAST 😉
@@nickmikhelson5754the good thing about living in SA is that second hand firearms can be purchased at ridiculous prices. This is as a result of stringent firearm laws that caused many people to rather get rid of their firearms. Firearms were handed in to the police to destroy (but through the hands of corrupt police officials landed in the hands of criminals), or alternatively sold at ridiculous prices. I am very well acquainted with the staff of a particular armsdealer in Cape Town and have purchased a pre-war Walther PPK for $90, a a Walther PP Sport for $30 and a Bernadelli Model 60 for $18, all in very good shape. They provide me with a lot of fun, but that shotgun would really be gre at.In fact, thinking about it, I would probably be able to purchase an excellent second hand 12 gauge for less than the Umarex. Then again, the Umarex would be a great investment for security work.
Hope you get rid of your prime-minister soon!
Thank you so much for doing this video! I have wanted to see some less lethals vs ballistic dummies for some time now. In my opinion, the OC/Tear gas blend sounds awesome, but the Byrna doesn't seem to produce projectile velocity like the HDR50. I'm gonna say that their proprietary rounds are quite impressive, but the Umarex performed better in this test. Well done!
You can find the oc powder balls for the uramex too. Just gotta look for .50 cal pepper balls
You can buy a mold and make your own rounds for the HDR50. I love it. Use hot glue with bbs
And there's power upgrade kits for sale online for the HDR. Makes a huge difference even when it's cold outside.
They also make a specialized holster for the HDR that allows you to carry an extra clip actually pretty well made too it has a trigger safety so it can't just be pulled out of the holster
The monarch butterfly was absolutely incredible to the scene.
I just got the Byrna SD XL and it is a .68 cal projectile. The cap can be unscrewed with a regular hex key. I thought using a magazine was a little awkward, but you always have the tool to open and tighten it if you've got a mag. One other thing, don't by the 12g CO2 cartridges and the practice projectiles on their website. You can find much better deals on other websites. Just make sure you read the reviews. You'll see some that will say that the .68 cal balls are just a little too small and the projectile will roll out the barrel before you fire. Jawbreakers nylon balls have worked well for me.
I completely agree about the OC, I had to drive home basically blind from the academy that day. for two days after that I was still screwed up.
Honored to see you looking into the “less lethal” world!
Whilst I will always prefer a true firearm. There is definitely merit to these tools. If it’s all you have, I think you will still perform rather well.
@@peris_arts_film9699 it's better than nothing in areas that try to restrict your right to defend yourself. Even though I have two carry guns, I have considered getting a less than lethal for situations where an assailant is unarmed and I'd rather try to incapacitate first ( but keeping a handgun as backup because, well, drugs are a thing)
And here’s our THANK YOU video Thank you Kentucky Ballistics, I’m returning the favor! 🍆🔫
th-cam.com/video/e4BrIboC9eo/w-d-xo.html
@@peris_arts_film9699 The thing is: at a distance, it looks enough like an actual firearm to be an effective deterrent, and if it gets up close and personal, at point blank range they are every bit as lethal as their powdered counterparts...
💯
This is so cool to see, I actually have the Revolver one. Got it around September of 2022. Absolutely Love it.
You could tell right away the 'revolver' was going to be stronger because of how much C02 it used per shot compared to the 'automatic' one when 'emptying' the air. You got at least double the number of air-slugs from the auto then the revolver. Mind you, the auto had those awesome pepperball rounds....for hurting someone, the revolver. for driving someone off, the auto.
They make the pepper balls for the revolver. I just ordered me the .68 cal model of the revolver and some PepperBall Live SD with 2.0% PAVA. After 3 of those I got 2 more .68 cal Devastator rounds. The .50 cal gets 6 shots while the .68 cal gets only 5.
@@rayy7858 Sweeeeet. Ima do the same I think. If they're classed as airguns they're legal here in Canada.
Semi-auto. Let's not be that guy my man. It was clearly one round per pull of the trigger.
@@randywilliams4388 just using the terms as general comparisons of their shapes, bro. Obviously both are semi-auto pistols.
Yeah the revolver absolutely brained houston bones
I have both devices you used in this video and can assure you either one can be nasty however my favorite is the Byrna with a mix of kinetic and max rounds a nasty and effective combination, keep doing what you do
I have to imagine that has to feel like getting blasted by chemical warfare and then getting punched in the face several times. All from a couple feet away. Unless that person was insane, that is enough to get anyone to leave.
Yeah I would only aim for the face with a less lethal. Shooting in the gut only works with you know lethal. Your getting painted in the face lol I wish Byrna would come out with something more powerful or a more devastating round than the kinetics
You can also get OC pepper rounds for HDR50/TR50. For price and versatility, HDR50/TR50 is much better option for most people. And it can also be modded for much more power if necessary.
@jay312productions3 they now have the LE model
Thanks for the comparison been debating on getting a byrna. With the oc ammo feel like it would make an attacker think twice if you shot emm with one of those and don't have to worry about catching a murder charge trying to stop a idiot from doing what they do best.
Kinetic rounds: You want to discourage the attacker
Max rounds: You want to incapacitate the attacker
Devastator rounds: You’re not allowed to own a real gun
Yup! lol
I would prefer OC to both CS and CN, though I would take the taser over all the above. I’ve been sprayed a few times directly and caught spray back on occasion, which was enough as when I was sent for aerosol instructor agent training and was told we would be sprayed over 4 dozen times and gassed another dozen I was out. I will say that one of the worst things I’ve experienced was a dry chem agent for cell extractions and crowd control which was like being on fire from both the inside and outside simultaneously. Decontamination is just so much easier with OC but not even close to the rapid recovery from the taser.
If I am firing these balls, I am gonna take advantage of distance. Magazine loading is the better option, I think, cuz you can rapidly swap out [a ceramic option, as well as a few more are now available] loads. The pepper balls should be treated like grenades, and more or less used as such. If my misspent youth is right, loading a ceramic on top of the peppers will deal with that pesky "safety glass" issue that may crop up.
Loved the video, but really wondering what power his HDR 50 had.
Also something note worthy there are way, way more then 3 types of ammo for the HDR 50 including pepperballs, steel balls, glass ball and even slugmakers so can make your own ammo. Also availible are power upgrade mods for the HDR 50 so you can upgrade the power up to 20+ joule, however 20+ joule isnt always legal in every country.
I admit, the Byrna looks cooler... But when you go for price, power and versatility the winner is HDR 50.
Yes max power for HDR50 far higher than Byrna. I've seen a guy mod it to 90+ Joules using HPA and it's clearly no longer "less lethal". Also another big bonus as you mentioned is ability for HDR50 to use virtually anything even home made ammo (hot glue/bb rounds, cast lead bullets) as ammo.
How do you modify it
These guns seem to do what they're supposed to pretty well, but my one concern is that it looks like all of the shots from those weapons have a serious risk of ricochet. Even from the longer distance, the rounds that don't explode do come back pretty fast, and one of the ones fired from point blank actually came right back and hit the gun right in the barrel's opening. I understand that if the rounds are specifically designed NOT to penetrate deeply that the risk of the rounds coming back at you are a bit higher, and most of the time you probably aren't going to be unloading entire magazines point blank into someone's skull. At that point you might as well just be using a regular gun. All in all I'm pleasantly surprised how consistent they performed. I went into the video expecting some garbage plastic guns that shot spit balls instead of actual ammunition, but yeah, they did what they said they would. Pretty good!
Please tell me you're not describing a ricochet going back down a barrel..
@@Sheridantank I said barrel opening specifically because I didn't mean going down the barrel. My intention was to clarify that It just hit where the opening was, not down the barrel. Though I can see why someone could read the comment and see that. Your wish has been granted. I'm gonna go make some eggs for breakfast you want some?
@@Rocky-oq9cy Scrambled please
@@Mister_Clean Alright, the other guy isn't responding so I'll just make yours.
@@Rocky-oq9cy What About Mine?
I think non lethal handguns are even more scarier since they don’t penetrate you which will make you feel the pain even more at a unbearable rate
That would be the point. 🤷♂️
I definitely think a real firearm would hurt more (especially pistol rounds) because they bore far into you, but pistol rounds do not usually go through the target, leaving you with a hole in your chest and led buried into you, which as you could guess hurts very bad.
handgun rounds are super hot though.
Went to big 5 to get a new folding table for the range the other day and they were out. I blame you, but it carries little weight. Great video as always!
I have de HDR 50 11 Joules (I presume that's the version seen in this video) and, appart from enjoying it so much, I suspected it was more or less effective as a deffensive weapon... now thanks to this funny and excellent video I'm sure about it. Thank You. Regards from Girona - Catalonia.
Oh, my goodness! Scott, you've outdone yourself. I was rolling with that intro. I needed a good laugh today. Great video!
Thank you for this video. I believe this is a great compromise for a self defense option for people who don't want to transition to buying actual guns.
Not just that getting a actual gun especially in California you have to jump through so many, many hoops for self defense bryna gives you the ability purchase self defense now when you need it and not many months down the line.
Only thing I don't like is, You have a Non Lethal Weapon in a fight with someone who brings a Real Firearm and you're done
AA
Or for minors/felons who are banned from guns. In some states, younger teenagers are permitted to carry one, although you have to be 18 to purchase
(Since it's not an actual firearm)
The HDR50 comes in 6 joule, 11 joule and 30 joule models. The 6 is for Paintball. The 11 home defence. You can mod it to 30 with an after market valve. If you do this AND live in the UK then unless you have a Firearms license and you get caught, you might be looking at some time. A lad was jailed for 5 years in Newcastle last year for a modded .22 air pistol revolver that had been cranked to 20 joules. The courts treat it like a firearm.
There's is no 6 joule there's a 7.5 joule
Sorry for the kid, but Newcastle, even though I've never been there, is my favorite UK place because of the brown ale.
Wait, 30 joules? Hot damn, that is actually really fucking hard hitting considering it's basically just a REALLY souped up paintball co2 revolver
in the uk it’s considered a paintball gun so its not illegal to own 11 j
@@erebys21 i have mine that was 30j but now usel 8.4 gram solid steel balls, it goes through an inche of fiberboard
I think that the Byrna with the CS rounds or the hard kinetic rounds are more effective and less lethal specially with the CS effects considering your reaction just getting second hand exposure to it. Where the other weapon you actually got penetration that could become lethal if hit in the wrong place. Plus the Byrna looks like it is easier to load and recharge.
What’s the other thing
@@maniax3064 I don’t understand, what do you mean “what’s the other thing”
Byrna…… best options First trigger pull activation….nice