Real analysis on real cars on a TRACK rather than comparing 0-60 times. Love it! Do you think you have a race car? Go RACE on a TRACK. You may find why some supposedly slower cars are far better DRIVERS cars. I used to hit Mid Ohio in the 90s. Had a lot of fun in a lot of cars. I had a 96 GS-R with rims that had my track-only tires. Great, great fun!
While the manufacturers preclude us from dialing in any suspension settings outside of OEM, or using non-standard tires-we do find our track tests a good way to compare apples to apples, and we're knowledgeable enough t make educated guesses about what common equipment upgrades are going to mean. Track time is easier and cheaper that it has ever been in the nearly 40 years we've been publishing the magazine. You have no excuse for not getting your car on track the days.
If you're not taking the BRZ to the track, then there's no need for the tS. I have a 2024 "Limited" version (Sport Tech in Canada) with the 18" wheels and am really enjoying the handling and stopping power. The car is very light!
Disagree. The brembo brakes are a huge real world upgrade. The tS priced differential basically costs the same as a BBK. It’s like getting dampers for free and some other kit.
Safe to say some better/wider tires and more negative camber would put it fairly even with the CTR. Impressive considering how aggressive the CTR tire setup is stock.
Yeah tires and alignment would certainly close the gap to the CTR... until you threw some camber and tires at the Honda :) Still, for a car that, on paper anyway, shouldn't be running as close to that Civic as it is, the tS really seems to be more than the sum of its parts. Definitely a step up from the base model.
I run a 22 BRZ at FIRM a couple times a year. 17x9 with 245 Conti Force, AP BBK, Racecomp Engineering T0 (non-adjustable KWv3s with 6kg/mm springs), 3.25deg front, 2.5deg rear camber. Personal best is a 1:20.1. Probably a second on the table if you went to RE71R. I’m an OK driver but probably another second on the table with a hotshoe driver.
I wanted a tS but they are impossible to get. So i got a Limited with a short throw shifter and so far I'm loving it with only 140miles on it. Can t wait to break it in and get up in the revs!
My only challenge as someone who’s owned and heavily modified a first gen, the boxer is pain point. It’s a pain to work on. Pain to do basic maintenance. And the lateral g starving the oiling system hasn’t been addressed. I’m impressed with the power of the fa24 and how much they seem to hold under boost but I never want to swap spark plugs and coil packs on another boxer again
like the graphs and analysis - especially when it confirms my conformation bias, lol. The tS is 5K more than I paid for my 22 Limited, maybe worth it, but maybe not!
The most satisfying data analysis is one that helps someone hold on to a deep seated belief they weren't going to let go of anyway. Love to help get those deep existential issues to break your way when we can.
Did you notice a difference with the Hitachi front dampers? Also, FWIW, I was surprised that this ground up dedicated sports car's pedal box feel compromised. At least from siting in it at an autoshow, I found the brake pedal just too far for "rocking" my foot for heel/toe, and there's no room on the right side of the gas pedal for a full heel swing out style of heel/toe shifting. (side note: I found the WRX tS recaro seats a smidge more comfy than those in the BRZ)
The Brembo kit is a definite upgrade. Yes you could make these upgrades to a base model BRZ for about the same money as the tS price bump, but the tS gives you the ability to roll those upgrades into your payment if you're financing, and also provides warranty coverage.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports No question there! My point is simply I wonder how much of the lap time comes from those brakes and how much comes from suspension. As someone else noted the tires can be had without the rest since launch, I believe. Personally most interested in the dampers not the brakes as I’m not going for lap times.
Iff you want to get a decent impression of the shock quality on any of our test cars, look at the speed trace right around the 4000ft mark. You'll see a progressive deceleration, a short steady state plateau, then another deceleration. The flatness of that plateau is a good indicator of shock compliance as the car traverses the "esses" at the FIRM. Basically I take ALL the curb there, and a good set of shocks will allow a steady speed with the minor lateral transitions, while a less-controlled chassis will show some deceleration through those bumpy transitions. So, yeah, great shock response on this one.
Working on it. The '23 was one of our faves, and the '24 has mostly small but possible meaningful upgrades, like upgrades driveline mounts to control power delivery and shake. We drove it briefly at the Ioniq 5 N launch, and Hyundai said we'd have one for our test track by late summer.
@Grassrootsmotorsports Sounds good. I finally took delivery of my 2024 Hyundai Elantra N with the DCT.. Your last video of the 2023 Hyundai Elantra N was one of the reasons I bought it. I'm interested to know what you all think of the upgrades or if you are even able to notice them. Or if its worse.. The new forged wheels are said to be 33 lbs lighter, new suspension software, the drive shafts are a one-piece completely new design (for strength and weight savings), more engine and brake cooling , the polyurethane engine mounts like you mentioned and a few other things. I'm looking forward to your thoughts once you all get to test it. Hopefully, it's the DCT transmission. I'm interested in your times with it and your thoughts about it as well. I find it to work quite well, and in the N mode fast shifting.
Bit of a stretch calling the BRZ/86 a 4 seater. I could only carry 2 passengers and couldn’t sit anyone behind me in my 2013 BRZ, and it wasn’t too comfy for them. Just a great chassis overall though.
Wanted a GR 86 since it's inception, rear wheel drive, normally aspirated,, low center of gravity, low seating position. Time drawing near to replace current car and the GR 86 oiling issue killed it for me. Plus, Toyota denying waranty claims, such a shame, scared away a definate purchase here.
Love it! But the engines still have horrible oiling issues. I would love to see Toyota stuff that 1.6t engine into the next gen GR86. I would probably buy one then.
With everything off there was no discernible intervention. I also usually try and do something particularly stupid to see if I can trigger it, and it seemed to want to let me get as dumb as I wanted.
I own a 2024 tS and the Eyesight "nannies" are really only Lane Departure Warning and Pre-collision Braking. The Lane Departure can be turned off and stays off, and the Braking can be turned off but will re-enable itself after turning the car off.
I have a 2022. Some of the hardest track and street miles anyone can imagine. The "problem" is the most ridiculously overblown internet BS I have ever seen. What kind of moron buys the cheapest sports car on the market and expects it to be a purebred track weapon race car...? Throw an oil cooler on there. Step up to 5w30 oil and add an extra quart. "Problem" solved. Y'all act like nobody has ever raced cars before.
Your experience is one data point. These cars are blowing up left and right. Maybe you’re not driving as hard as you think you are, or maybe the tracks you drive at don’t induce oil starvation, or maybe you are on low grip tires. You definitely do not have the authority to apply your personal experience to everyone else. There is convincing data from multiple sources (not anecdotes like your comment) to suggest the car oil starves in certain types of corners. An oil cooler and thicker oil might be a good idea but will not fix that problem. An overfill helps but is far from a perfect solution. This is a design flaw that is not present in other cars in this price range, including the Miata (which has some easily addressable cooling issues) and Elantra N (track ready 100% stock). It does not have a fix unless you’re willing to blow $$$ on barely tested aftermarket parts, potentially add a lot of complexity, and throw away your warranty.
@@aaronbryan5095idc I’ve owned an nd2 and I’ll tell you personally the brzts is a much better car in every aspect it’s faster, more fun, wasaaay better options. Smoother drive, I had an rf club miata, so pretty much the best miata. The brz corners better, breaks loose more stable, sounds better, has 4x more trunk space with seats folded down, better wheels, better brakes, better infotainment system. Better seats, better sunvisor, the miata only goes down not to the side. The brz ts in 6spd manual has cruise control as well. It’s seriously a way better car than the miata. The only thing the miata has on the brz is that it got waaaaaaay more compliments. But I got sick of thanking people for complimenting my car 😂 I will say this the miata was 200 bucks cheaper per month and it was really good on gas even with lead foot. Averaging around 6.5-7 with heavy foot, in the brzts it has either a smaller tank or it just drinks it way faster I only get 420-430 kms on 70 bucks in the brz and I used to get 500 kms for 70 bucks in the miot and if you lead foot the brz you’ll have to refuel in like 3-4 days. Smiles per gallon I’m told. But yeah imo the brz not only looks better, but definitely performs better and has much better options, if you are thinking of one or the other just remember when you go on a trip with these cars you’ll only be able to take a single suitcase in the miata. In the brz I could take 6 suitcases it’s a little cramped but it’s do able.
It’s only starving of oil cause they used too much rtv on the front engine cover. Some comes out and clogs the oil mesh on some models. It’s important to note an early oil change after the break in period and check inside the filter for green or red particles of etc if there are many in the filter it might be a good idea to consult your dealer. But I’m not entirely worried as new cars come with a lot of warranties and bumper to bumper exists. Anyone buying a new car should be also extending their warranty, it’s just the norm. I have 7 yrs on my brz ts bumper to bumper. I’m really not worried about it 😂
you can absolutely match, nay, improve over those brembo's for 2600 bucks. and the wheels and tires are the same as the Limited model. or if you look at a base model at 29k, you can get better brakes, suspension, and wheels and tires to get to the 36k price of the tS.
You ca get a set of six piston Wildwood fronts and rotors for about $2100-2200. Four piston upgrades are out there for a bit less. Careful shopping can probably beat that a bit more. Buuuuuut... Being able to roll those upgrades into your loan, and to have them covered under your OEM warranty is a big deal for a lot of buyers and shouldn't be overlooked. I mean probably the smartest ting to do is to buy the tS, sell the wheels and tires and use that money to buy two sets of street/track wheels. :)
@@Grassrootsmotorsports yeah, but warranty will only cover you if there’s a public outcry… that already happened for this car, unlikely it’ll happen again. Plus there’s still the low oil pressure on right turns issue…
Why do you reviewers say stuff like this and pretend like you know what you’re talking about? The car is IDENTICAL to the standard limited trim or the BRZ - except for shocks and brakes. Nothing else is different. Identical to the higher trim of 2.. there’s the base and there’s the limited. Literally nothing. The wheels, both in style, tire, and size are the same as stock. You spend so much time talking about the “upgrade” Then you talk about seats - which are identical to the limited, with different colour accent strips and stitching so Subaru can try to MARKET it as a difference. It’s blue.. does make it better than the stock red? Embarrassing man. Shocks, and brakes. That’s it. Some cosmetic touches so people “know you got the special package” but that’s it. The stock brakes are road adequate, definitely some left on the table SO that they could eventually release this package and differentiate it. Better calipers and pads may or may not be worth it. Slightly better shocks, for stock track performance. Nothing else. A red button, some badges and accent stitching. That’s the whole review
@@churchofbrap876 thats not what i have seem at the track buddy maybe if ur a poser that just takes it to the starbucks every morning then i can it being ok..
Same tires as car at limited trim level without tS. Radically underbraked? Most are running track pads and hi temp fluid with stock brakes without issue. You never mention the difference in the front shocks. You don't have your basic facts right.
![2024 Subaru BRZ TS - [Track Review Mosport GP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uDxXe_De5oU/mqdefault.jpg)
![2024 Subaru BRZ TS - [Track Review Mosport GP]](/img/tr.png)
Excellent review with a proper analysis! Can’t wait to receive my 2024 BRZ tS!
Good choice!
Real analysis on real cars on a TRACK rather than comparing 0-60 times. Love it! Do you think you have a race car? Go RACE on a TRACK. You may find why some supposedly slower cars are far better DRIVERS cars. I used to hit Mid Ohio in the 90s. Had a lot of fun in a lot of cars. I had a 96 GS-R with rims that had my track-only tires. Great, great fun!
While the manufacturers preclude us from dialing in any suspension settings outside of OEM, or using non-standard tires-we do find our track tests a good way to compare apples to apples, and we're knowledgeable enough t make educated guesses about what common equipment upgrades are going to mean. Track time is easier and cheaper that it has ever been in the nearly 40 years we've been publishing the magazine. You have no excuse for not getting your car on track the days.
Great analysis! Always love these videos. Actually seeing the statistical improvement of the brake kit is awesome.
If you're not taking the BRZ to the track, then there's no need for the tS. I have a 2024 "Limited" version (Sport Tech in Canada) with the 18" wheels and am really enjoying the handling and stopping power. The car is very light!
Disagree. The brembo brakes are a huge real world upgrade. The tS priced differential basically costs the same as a BBK. It’s like getting dampers for free and some other kit.
Safe to say some better/wider tires and more negative camber would put it fairly even with the CTR. Impressive considering how aggressive the CTR tire setup is stock.
Yeah tires and alignment would certainly close the gap to the CTR... until you threw some camber and tires at the Honda :)
Still, for a car that, on paper anyway, shouldn't be running as close to that Civic as it is, the tS really seems to be more than the sum of its parts. Definitely a step up from the base model.
I run a 22 BRZ at FIRM a couple times a year. 17x9 with 245 Conti Force, AP BBK, Racecomp Engineering T0 (non-adjustable KWv3s with 6kg/mm springs), 3.25deg front, 2.5deg rear camber. Personal best is a 1:20.1. Probably a second on the table if you went to RE71R. I’m an OK driver but probably another second on the table with a hotshoe driver.
@@thanecaithness8268Yeah they seem to respond well to just a few simple mods like that. It's probably still perfectly comfortable on the road as well.
I wanted a tS but they are impossible to get. So i got a Limited with a short throw shifter and so far I'm loving it with only 140miles on it. Can t wait to break it in and get up in the revs!
That tS is a fantastic drivers car
Great information cheers from Oz 🇦🇺❤
Glad you enjoyed it
My only challenge as someone who’s owned and heavily modified a first gen, the boxer is pain point. It’s a pain to work on. Pain to do basic maintenance. And the lateral g starving the oiling system hasn’t been addressed. I’m impressed with the power of the fa24 and how much they seem to hold under boost but I never want to swap spark plugs and coil packs on another boxer again
Awesome result considering the price differential.
Thanks for the time stamps.
Nice analysis, thanks!
I would guess it's a combination of the BRZ being lighter weight, slightly under-rated at about 240 hp, and N/A. Fun track cars!
like the graphs and analysis - especially when it confirms my conformation bias, lol. The tS is 5K more than I paid for my 22 Limited, maybe worth it, but maybe not!
The most satisfying data analysis is one that helps someone hold on to a deep seated belief they weren't going to let go of anyway. Love to help get those deep existential issues to break your way when we can.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports lol
Waiting on my GR 86 premium with Brembo suspension package
Did you notice a difference with the Hitachi front dampers? Also, FWIW, I was surprised that this ground up dedicated sports car's pedal box feel compromised. At least from siting in it at an autoshow, I found the brake pedal just too far for "rocking" my foot for heel/toe, and there's no room on the right side of the gas pedal for a full heel swing out style of heel/toe shifting. (side note: I found the WRX tS recaro seats a smidge more comfy than those in the BRZ)
Great video. If I get one it will be for the dampers and perhaps despite the brakes and tires. Thanks for posting!
The Brembo kit is a definite upgrade. Yes you could make these upgrades to a base model BRZ for about the same money as the tS price bump, but the tS gives you the ability to roll those upgrades into your payment if you're financing, and also provides warranty coverage.
Tires are same as premium trim. Michelin pilot sport 4. Nothing special here. Sorry to say there's some misinformation here
@@Grassrootsmotorsports No question there! My point is simply I wonder how much of the lap time comes from those brakes and how much comes from suspension. As someone else noted the tires can be had without the rest since launch, I believe. Personally most interested in the dampers not the brakes as I’m not going for lap times.
@@maximus9401 My first thought too!
Iff you want to get a decent impression of the shock quality on any of our test cars, look at the speed trace right around the 4000ft mark. You'll see a progressive deceleration, a short steady state plateau, then another deceleration. The flatness of that plateau is a good indicator of shock compliance as the car traverses the "esses" at the FIRM. Basically I take ALL the curb there, and a good set of shocks will allow a steady speed with the minor lateral transitions, while a less-controlled chassis will show some deceleration through those bumpy transitions. So, yeah, great shock response on this one.
Show us the new 2024 Hyundai Elantra N with the DCT PLEASE!!
Working on it. The '23 was one of our faves, and the '24 has mostly small but possible meaningful upgrades, like upgrades driveline mounts to control power delivery and shake. We drove it briefly at the Ioniq 5 N launch, and Hyundai said we'd have one for our test track by late summer.
@Grassrootsmotorsports Sounds good. I finally took delivery of my 2024 Hyundai Elantra N with the DCT.. Your last video of the 2023 Hyundai Elantra N was one of the reasons I bought it.
I'm interested to know what you all think of the upgrades or if you are even able to notice them. Or if its worse..
The new forged wheels are said to be 33 lbs lighter, new suspension software, the drive shafts are a one-piece completely new design (for strength and weight savings), more engine and brake cooling , the polyurethane engine mounts like you mentioned and a few other things.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts once you all get to test it. Hopefully, it's the DCT transmission. I'm interested in your times with it and your thoughts about it as well. I find it to work quite well, and in the N mode fast shifting.
Bit of a stretch calling the BRZ/86 a 4 seater. I could only carry 2 passengers and couldn’t sit anyone behind me in my 2013 BRZ, and it wasn’t too comfy for them. Just a great chassis overall though.
I was very surprised in some tight sections the BRZ keeping pace with a couple 911s. Of course once there wes a straight they disappeared. 😂
Wanted a GR 86 since it's inception, rear wheel drive, normally aspirated,, low center of gravity, low seating position. Time drawing near to replace current car and the GR 86 oiling issue killed it for me. Plus, Toyota denying waranty claims, such a shame, scared away a definate purchase here.
With these new Hitachi dampers is the camber adjustable? More so or same as the lesser strut cars?
Non camber adjustable
Love it! But the engines still have horrible oiling issues. I would love to see Toyota stuff that 1.6t engine into the next gen GR86. I would probably buy one then.
Yeah or just give me an inline 4
JG, were the nannies fully defeatable?
I've heard they aren't with 2024 BRZ because they have eyesight.
With everything off there was no discernible intervention. I also usually try and do something particularly stupid to see if I can trigger it, and it seemed to want to let me get as dumb as I wanted.
I own a 2024 tS and the Eyesight "nannies" are really only Lane Departure Warning and Pre-collision Braking. The Lane Departure can be turned off and stays off, and the Braking can be turned off but will re-enable itself after turning the car off.
I have a 2022. Some of the hardest track and street miles anyone can imagine. The "problem" is the most ridiculously overblown internet BS I have ever seen. What kind of moron buys the cheapest sports car on the market and expects it to be a purebred track weapon race car...? Throw an oil cooler on there. Step up to 5w30 oil and add an extra quart. "Problem" solved. Y'all act like nobody has ever raced cars before.
Your experience is one data point. These cars are blowing up left and right. Maybe you’re not driving as hard as you think you are, or maybe the tracks you drive at don’t induce oil starvation, or maybe you are on low grip tires. You definitely do not have the authority to apply your personal experience to everyone else.
There is convincing data from multiple sources (not anecdotes like your comment) to suggest the car oil starves in certain types of corners. An oil cooler and thicker oil might be a good idea but will not fix that problem. An overfill helps but is far from a perfect solution.
This is a design flaw that is not present in other cars in this price range, including the Miata (which has some easily addressable cooling issues) and Elantra N (track ready 100% stock). It does not have a fix unless you’re willing to blow $$$ on barely tested aftermarket parts, potentially add a lot of complexity, and throw away your warranty.
Subaru: oh the engine is oil starving? Better throw some new brakes and suspension at it!
😂😂😢😢
Meanwhile the ND Miata's stock oiling system: Has no problem dealing with the grip levels of fully warmed up racing slicks.
@@aaronbryan5095if only the same were true of the ND transmission
@@aaronbryan5095idc I’ve owned an nd2 and I’ll tell you personally the brzts is a much better car in every aspect it’s faster, more fun, wasaaay better options. Smoother drive, I had an rf club miata, so pretty much the best miata. The brz corners better, breaks loose more stable, sounds better, has 4x more trunk space with seats folded down, better wheels, better brakes, better infotainment system. Better seats, better sunvisor, the miata only goes down not to the side.
The brz ts in 6spd manual has cruise control as well. It’s seriously a way better car than the miata. The only thing the miata has on the brz is that it got waaaaaaay more compliments. But I got sick of thanking people for complimenting my car 😂
I will say this the miata was 200 bucks cheaper per month and it was really good on gas even with lead foot. Averaging around 6.5-7 with heavy foot, in the brzts it has either a smaller tank or it just drinks it way faster I only get 420-430 kms on 70 bucks in the brz and I used to get 500 kms for 70 bucks in the miot and if you lead foot the brz you’ll have to refuel in like 3-4 days. Smiles per gallon I’m told.
But yeah imo the brz not only looks better, but definitely performs better and has much better options, if you are thinking of one or the other just remember when you go on a trip with these cars you’ll only be able to take a single suitcase in the miata. In the brz I could take 6 suitcases it’s a little cramped but it’s do able.
It’s only starving of oil cause they used too much rtv on the front engine cover. Some comes out and clogs the oil mesh on some models. It’s important to note an early oil change after the break in period and check inside the filter for green or red particles of etc if there are many in the filter it might be a good idea to consult your dealer. But I’m not entirely worried as new cars come with a lot of warranties and bumper to bumper exists. Anyone buying a new car should be also extending their warranty, it’s just the norm. I have 7 yrs on my brz ts bumper to bumper. I’m really not worried about it 😂
You guys know that the tS has the same tires as the limited right? Tires aren't upgraded here. Please do research before making these reviews
Limited and tS on 18s with summer rubber. Premium ships on 17s with all season rubber.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports The OEM 17" Primacy HPs are summer tires as well, not all seasons.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports correct my limited 18s and Michelin Pilots
you can absolutely match, nay, improve over those brembo's for 2600 bucks. and the wheels and tires are the same as the Limited model. or if you look at a base model at 29k, you can get better brakes, suspension, and wheels and tires to get to the 36k price of the tS.
You ca get a set of six piston Wildwood fronts and rotors for about $2100-2200. Four piston upgrades are out there for a bit less. Careful shopping can probably beat that a bit more. Buuuuuut... Being able to roll those upgrades into your loan, and to have them covered under your OEM warranty is a big deal for a lot of buyers and shouldn't be overlooked. I mean probably the smartest ting to do is to buy the tS, sell the wheels and tires and use that money to buy two sets of street/track wheels. :)
@@Grassrootsmotorsports yeah, but warranty will only cover you if there’s a public outcry… that already happened for this car, unlikely it’ll happen again. Plus there’s still the low oil pressure on right turns issue…
Why do you reviewers say stuff like this and pretend like you know what you’re talking about?
The car is IDENTICAL to the standard limited trim or the BRZ - except for shocks and brakes. Nothing else is different. Identical to the higher trim of 2.. there’s the base and there’s the limited.
Literally nothing. The wheels, both in style, tire, and size are the same as stock. You spend so much time talking about the “upgrade”
Then you talk about seats - which are identical to the limited, with different colour accent strips and stitching so Subaru can try to MARKET it as a difference. It’s blue.. does make it better than the stock red?
Embarrassing man. Shocks, and brakes. That’s it. Some cosmetic touches so people “know you got the special package” but that’s it.
The stock brakes are road adequate, definitely some left on the table SO that they could eventually release this package and differentiate it. Better calipers and pads may or may not be worth it.
Slightly better shocks, for stock track performance. Nothing else. A red button, some badges and accent stitching. That’s the whole review
Supercharge the BRZ. Then you have an amazing car.
40k OTD econo car hard pass! Oh yea dont take right turns lol keep it on the streets
Not an issue bud. Just add a bit more oil if u go to the track.
@@churchofbrap876 probably should overfill even if you do any hard turns on autocross or mountain driving. I've seen people blow there's on there.
@@churchofbrap876 thats not what i have seem at the track buddy maybe if ur a poser that just takes it to the starbucks every morning then i can it being ok..
@@LoveLikeaHurricane dido..
@@gigi9467 if this is such a huge problem, where are the Subaru and Toyota recalls for it?
2018 ts >
Value? Lol
Can't afford one can you?
@@churchofbrap876 i can, but i decided to buy a reliable
Sport car.. miata is always the answer
Baby lol
@@churchofbrap876 dont turn left lol keep posing at the starbucks.
Same tires as car at limited trim level without tS. Radically underbraked? Most are running track pads and hi temp fluid with stock brakes without issue. You never mention the difference in the front shocks. You don't have your basic facts right.
Stock brakes on these cars are pretty good! I left the video once he said they were worse than it is.