It’s nice to see Carlos in front of a camera again. His reviews back on Motortrend about a decade ago were staples for me. Glad he’s back and doing well!
I just drove the BRZ Premium, BRZ tS, GR86 base and GR86 w/Performance package. All this week. And the BRZ Limited a few months ago. All were 2024's. Here's how they handled: BRZ base: Most practical because it soaks up the bumps so well while still being planted. Cloth seats easier to get out of. Base tires allow tail out action but it is snappier than 86. BRZ Limited: Still rides really well even with the 18's. Hardest car to get the tail out. Microsuede seats pull on your clothes as you get out and they are colder and hotter than cloth. BRZ tS: This car really is meant for the track. The suspension jostles you around too much. I wanted out within 15 minutes. But the steering is really sharp. GR86 base: Most fun because you can slide the rear everywhere and you will! Also the least refined suspension, really rough and bouncy at lower speeds. Does settle out at faster speeds. GR86 Perf. Pack: Razor sharp steering reflexes and a somewhat tolerable ride. Much better balance of perf and comfort than tS or base GR86. Bumps are sharp but settle very quickly. These cars are very sporty even the base BRZ, don't assume you need the craziest trim. You might need the most livable! If you want to measure your fun in hours go BRZ. If measure your fun by the minute go GR86.
Love your last sentence as I am deciding between the two. If the BRZ is more livable by the hour, that’s my ride. Thanks for your random comment helping sway my choice to the BRZ.
@@Day7Reset That's why I went BRZ as well. If I was going to do more track visits I would've gone 86, but since most of my miles are on New England roads I got the Subaru because it's nicer on bumpy pavement
Wow, I wouldn't have thought the ride quality and driving characteristics of what I believed to be was basically the same car would differ so much between models and trims. Thanks for sharing the insight!
Bought the tS….in daily driving you look where you want to be on the road and it just gets there, ride is actually pretty supple for a car on low profile tyres.
I just recently purchased a 24BRZ premium. I didn’t go with the limited trim because I didn’t want the Alcanterra seats and 18” wheels. It’s definitely hard to move around in those Alcanterra seats and I plan on putting on some lightweight wheels in the near future. To me the suspension setup is a perfect balance for daily driving and track use if you need it. I shopped the GR86 but just could not find one around my location that didn’t have a bunch of dealer mark ups on it. Even if I could’ve found a GR86 with a reasonable pricing, I still would’ve bought the BRZ. With the GR86 being more tail happy I really appreciated the balance the BRZ has to offer. Plus the throttle mapping in the GR86 is a little bit more aggressive down low whereas the BRZ mapping is more linear and feels like it builds power all the way up to the 7500 redline. However, either car is fantastic and you cannot go wrong with either one. Really comes down to personal preference.
The experience at Subaru of Ann Arbor sounds very typical. Lots and lots of Subaru users in the Ann Arbor area, so I get the feeling that they can charge whatever they'd like and people would pay for it. Absolutely ridiculous pricing. Thank you for drawing attention to this.
As ridiculous as the cabin filter pricing is, they were probably just charging book time. Most shops use a database like Mitchell prodemand or Alldata that lists out retail labor times for repair/maintenance jobs. Most 5-10 min cabin filters I've seen are still listed as 0.5hrs on those databases. They can sometimes be wildly inconsistent. At times it pays too good like the cabin air, while others it's not even close to the actual time needed to do the job. Sure they could have cut the labor time. But with how underpaid mechanics are on top of mechanics shortages the odds of that are slim to none especially if the database already shows them they are allowed to charge that much.
So what I wonder, is since most of Subarus 6000 mile check ups are change the oil and "check" things, will you void the warranty if you simply get the oil change and do the air filter changes yourself?
@@AdamAllen I wouldn't be so quick to make that decision. The GR Corolla engines are blowing a lot from oil pressure drop issues during braking, as well as the TRD Pro turbo engines in their trucks. Seems like Toyota made turbo engines aren't very reliable.. I know the Boxer engines have the same oil pressure drop issues, during right hand turns but that can be fixed with the Verus oil pan/baffle. Maybe the Toyota engines can too, idk.
I am in my 50s and bought one of these because I have twisty back roads right outside my driveway. He’s right if you’re driving on a twisty 2 Lane Rd. and not enjoying this vehicle, there’s something wrong with you. It’s a lot of fun and you don’t have to break the bank or the law to have it.
This car is dangerous for your age, soon enough you will find yourself wanting to buy young clothes, eat healthier food, exercise more, and wanting younger women, who will no doubt be attracted to this car 🤣
It's mind boggling to me, as a child of the 70's, that sub 6 second 0-60 and low 13's in the quarter mile is "not too shabby". That's a quicker quarter mile than most Corvettes built before the 90's.
In a in an era when family sedans have been running sub 4 second 0-60s and with 10s and 11s in the quarter for years, the GR86/BRZ's numbers are considered "not too shabby." But most of those cars don't deliver an iota of the driving engagement you get from the BRZ. I keep itching to buy one to complement my fast (but kinda boring) sedan.
same here but i went with the premium. after a year i put it on Tein Flex Z coilovers and will be adding ARP extended studs and wheel spacers soon to give it a better stance on the stock wheels. absolutely love this car on the road and on track
This car feels like a modernized version of my Porsche 944 and I love it. They addressed most of the key issues of the previous generation's engine while keeping the core things that make the car unique. One of my favorite new cars on the market right now
I had a gen 1 86 and drove it in Michigan winters. First with used Blizzaks and then new Vredstein winter tires. Absolute riot in snow and was probably my favorite time to drive it. Driving it in track mode that let you get a little sideways but catch you if things didn't quite go the way you expected was excellent. AWD cars aside, I had no issues beating most vehicles when accelerating from a light in snowy conditions. Only time it showed signs of struggle was when the snow was high enough that my front bumper was turning into a plow. It still managed, just had to be more patient.
i had Blizzaks on my last Miata, and I loved them. I got Vredesteins for my BRZ and am really enjoying them as well, particularly for winter tires. I couldn't find an actual snow tire for the OEM rims, but the Quatracs have the mountain logo with snowflakes, which is "all-weather" correct? They're pretty good for Cleveland these days--we get less snow than we used to. But noisier and less responsive than the OEM Pilot Sport 4's. People always look at you as if you've lost your mind if your driving a little RWD car up North. All you need is the right tires!
I've driven my Miata in relatively deep snow with just new Michelin AS4s and was doing better than 99% of surrounding traffic. My buddy let me rip his 330i with blizzaks once in the snow and that was also really solid fun. RWD in winter is fine with good tires.
I’m an older driver 50+ who bought one of these in 2022. I’m amazed at cornering ability with power. 240 SX was about as close to this as I’ve owned and the BRZ is much better. I just don’t understand why they are flying off the lots. Any decade before this one you would hear a cheer from enthusiasts
@@tamimalkawari271 Oil pressure gauge to monitor just in case the RTV starts to block the pickup tube and the VERUS Oil pan/baffle to get rid of the right hand turn oil pressure drops, but those really aren't a problem on the street, just tracks.. but it's still better safe than sorry.
I have had my '23 BRZ for coming up on a year. It has been fantastic. I did add about 20 pounds to it by adding a bunch of sound deadening, which helps a ton in quieting down the car (plus unplugging the sound box). I am also averaging 26mpg. My worst ever was 22, and that was entirely canyon carving which really wasn't bad.
Where did you put the sound deadening? I've seen it done on TH-cam, but stripping out interiors seems like a TON of work that's just asking for trouble in the way of broken fasteners, etc.?
@@ragweedmakesmesneeze @DasWauto Yeah, I have seen the guy that removed the entire interior. I did not go that far. I used Kilmat 80mm on the trunk floor, under the rear seats, and on the rear wheel wells. The wheel wells helped quite a bit (All of the ting sounds from road debris/sand is gone). As I had the rear side panels off to do those, I also added resonix sound mat back there, as well as behind the door cards. The other big source of noise is the V-Bars that connect the strut towers to the firewall. There is a very distinct resonance that travels up through them from the suspension. Adding sound deadening to those actually helps a ton. BUT, you have to be aware of heat issues. The kilmat did great for the sound, but on a hot summer day with hard driving, it can gets soft and I am afraid of it dripping down onto the exhaust and causing a fire. So I am looking into some other material with a high temp rating. I have seen some that have a 300F rating, which should be plenty. But I won't know until I test it. But as the car sits now, I have done 6-8 hour drives in it and I don't have a headache from the sound levels in the car. I actually did do a bunch of sound measurements as well, and I saw roughly a 12dB drop from stock to having the above noted changes. Tested on a rather rough section of road at the same speed for each test.
@@Stuka87 Really interesting, thanks for sharing! I know this isn't built as a GT car, but I do love the idea of having a nice pleasant ride to the track, rip around for a few hours, then cruise home in quiet comfort. I guess you need like $70k for an Audio RS3 or something to have THAT experience though!
@@Stuka87 I wasn't sure what a V Bar was, but I googled and see that some folks have gone with v bars that are "flexible" and have vibration absorbing dampers. Perhaps instead of that, some good old fashioned exhaust pipes heat wrap would help?
Have a 981 cayman and a 16 BRZ as a daily. Both make me smile. If you can’t afford the Porsche then get this car, it’s so good and the new one has some more torque.
@ You are not kidding, absolutely true. Luckily I do my own work. But if I had to pay an indie or dealer, I easily could have bought a used Gen 1 BRZ. No regrets on the cayman, the flat six sound with headers is intoxicating, but there is a price to pay. Give me the flat six sound in the BRZ and I don’t need the cayman. BRZ is more playful at legal speeds.
@@ernesternest815 Agree that nothing beats that flat six howl! I also do most of my own work, but that AOS job sucks and I’m not confident enough to do a RMS on a 987. I enjoy the GR86 more on the daily tho as it’s limits are much lower. If the Boxster didn’t do nearly 70 in 2nd gear I’d still have it.
@ yes. It’s more refined, and rotates so well. The flat six is so much better. But you need to be going much faster on public roads to get it to the edge. So it’s not as playful at normal speeds. The BRZ rear is more playful for sure, you will learn more about driving and car dynamics with the BRZ. The cayman you feel like a pro, it rotates that well. Having both is a lot of fun.
Oh man. I will NEVER go to Subaru of Ann Arbor. They appear dishonest. Hope Subaru addresses it with them otherwise it’s easy for someone to assume they’re accepting of this behaviour. Re the car these are best drivers car bang for buck.
For the price of this BRZ, I have a 70k Fiesta ST and 40k mile ND1 Miata.. I test drove the GR86 and it felt slow to respond compared to either of those two, which surprised me.. Clutch feel is non-existent and the shifter, despite going straight into the gearbox, feels kinda sloppy.. Too many things i'd have to 'fix' for a new car.. but im a picky mofo lol (i've owned 35 cars and im in my early 40s, lol) Edit: Point is.. buy used.. you get way more for your money.. Why get a compromise vehicle when you can get a Miata (much better driver's car, imo) and a 'beater/dd' (FiST in my case)
I mean, it's Subaru of Ann Arbor. They've got a flood of Foresters needing service while their owners shop at Whole Foods, so they have to prioritize! (seriously, have you ever been to Whole Foods in Ann Arbor? It's like a Subaru dealer parking lot!)
For what it’s worth, don’t go to the Volkswagen dealership in Ann Arbor. Truly shitty staff there that berates the customers. Had a major service done on a vehicle there. A few years later I needed a copy of the invoice so I could claim a class action lawsuit against VW. I call them, the employee starts telling me I should keep better track of my service history, it’s not his job to help look it up, etc. I simply asked if they could please look into the system for me and the reason. That was the response I got from them on the phone. I didn’t go full Karen, because I had a legitimate reason, but I demanded to speak to his superior for being a total arsehole like that. He slammed the phone down and hung up on me. They blocked my phone number because I had to try from a different phone to get back in contact. Same thing again. I said F it and took my business to Lafontaine VW. The treatment was 180 degrees different. Amazing staff and honest work. Ann Arbor seems to have a problem with shjtty behavior and dealerships.
I finally bought a 2018 at the start of this year with about 50k kilometres on it. Crazy how great these handle for how usable they are. It’s like a rear wheel drive civic si I always say!
@classicdufferin8739 yes. It sucks. Terminal understeer. Its an economy car thing. Packaging. More space. No driveshaft. Highly inferior to rwd for handling dynamics. If you have to ask this question? You can't drive & you don't know **** about driving. Why F1 cars wouldn't entertain cheap, sh****, FWD 🍻🏎
I love mine. 23 brz limited 6mt. Added gr performance exhaust, gr oem tail, and disabled the fake engine noise at the dealer. Car to me is perfect. Had it for a year and i cant belive it was only 32k brand new.
Great car! I test drove one for 24hrs; put 230 miles on it and enjoyed every one. You don’t need to spend 100k to feel the way those cars drive (minus the power). I ended up in an MX5 because the roads where I live are too rough for the stiffer Subie suspension. SAVE THE MANUALS!!!
Awesome video - always love videos with Carlos. Surprised by the specific commentary on Subaru of Ann Arbor, but love it! Way too much dealer hubris over the past couple of years. I hope those dealerships that were egregiously bad will be punished now that it is becoming a buyer’s market…
I have a '22 Limited in Ice Silver Metallic and LOVE it; I bought it almost on a whim, as Carvana gave me 40% more for my FR-S than what I had paid for it four years earlier, so I was able to turn around and plow that windfall into a big down payment. I'll have it paid off with less than 20K miles on the clock and am looking forward to driving it for ages to come. I just wish I could drive it in winter like you all did, but the thought of that salt just eating away at everything is just so depressing, so I still keep a utility car around for use in the slop.
I had the 1st gen and now the 2nd. Boy, it was like a well worn glove from the moment I sat in at the dealer after paperwork. Extra torque make it much better at any maneuver, though I opted to put all-weather tires that slip more as my daily, so I could roadtrip in early or late season and not worry about traction. Love it. Though my 1st gen had waaaaay better World Rally blue paint and a better clutch feel too. I hope to keep this one for a long time and drive it for fun.
I have 70k on a GR86. Stock clutch feel is terrible, but swapping the pedal spring made a huge difference. Stock brakes are definitely weak for performance driving. I think they put economy car ceramic pads on as they don't dust much and they have that lack of feel I've experienced with other ceramic pads. Mine is a daily driver and I average over 30 mpg when driving in normal traffic conditions. For snow, I went two sizes taller on the sidewalls with Blizzaks to gain about 22mm of ground clearance. They fit, but it's tight. The taller gearing is noticeable when it's not slippery, but it's really good in the snow and can still spin on command. The speedometer error isn't enough to be an issue.
I very-much appreciate calling out dealership BS. Seriously, coming from someone that works at a dealership, DO NOT bring your car to a dealer for service if you want a good value or quality work.
love my 2nd gen but absolutely agree about the clutch feel. had to swap the stock spring for the MTEC clutch assist spring, and it made a huge difference in clutch feel and consistency
@@hhaste Yes new. Also, you're not considering the extra fuel/tire/repair costs you'd pay compared to the BRZ. Comes out around 15-20k more expensive after 5 years. The C6 is better compared to a Supra, and there the newer Supra probably wins on value and fun.
Please be aware that the clutch takeup point is adjustable. One of the first things I did with mine, and it improved the driving experience. It took me about 10 minutes to do.
I seriously considered this car but I ended up with a 2024 Miata sport soft top for dealer invoice. Miata is more fun daily driving, way better mpg, can run on 91 gas, easier to work on, more reliable, and good enough storage if you remove the passenger seat. Lower insurance as well.
@@mudhudgie95 Thank you, your overall assessment helped me make my decision. But I'm still going to wait for the next generation which should be just around the corner.
@nostradamus7648 rumors are its going to be a hybrid. My Miata is getting 37 to 40 mpg without trying. It is not broken in yet and windy and cold, so it will only improve in warm weather once broken in.
@AmosDohms I saw some internet info that it might be 2026. I just got off the phone with a Mazda sales girl who says that they might not even have a 2025.
@@nostradamus7648 According to a forum post, a Mazda director stated that the ND platform is expected to be around until 2030. Maybe they come out with an ND4 in 2026, but the ND3 just came out, so idk. In any case, I'd buy with confidence.
A good review. The ts certainly eliminates most of the downsides mentioned. On the service "things" and intervals, a lot of us DIY track junkies will, of course change oil and filter far more often. Every 5k miles normally but regardless of miles, right before a track day. On that as well, for those who are above novice but not ready to buy the tow vehicle, trailer and track-only car, the step before involves getting to the track early and swapping the brake pads, rotors and wheels/tires. This allows more aggressive pads with dedicated rotors so as to not munge up the street rotors with incompatible material (try Hawk black and be ready to melt caliper piston seals). The weight and power of the BRZ also gives the driver the low cost and low wear to keep track supply costs to a minimum. Been there, done that. And paying to change the cabin filter? I've never had a cabin filter changed and look, I'm not dead or anything.
Right on, kudos to you for telling the dealerships what a rip off they are. Hope your corporate bosses don’t tell you not to do that anymore. Somebody’s gotta talk like the real folks out here that are buying these things. Kudos again.
Awesome sports car! Sorry to hear that Subaru of Ann Arbor spoiled the experience a bit. I hate when a dealership like Subaru of Ann Arbor ruins your experience of a great car with jacked up prices for frivolous reasons.
I appreciate the Ann Arbor Subaru callout, I've been going to them since I got my '22 BRZ but haven't hit the more expensive maintenance milestones yet.
I came close to buying a new GR86 Premium a couple times this past summer and fall. The GR86/BRZ twins are great cars. In the end, I just couldn’t pull the trigger. The biggest hang-up for me was the fuel economy. I’m on track to drive 24,000 miles a year, and averaging mid-20s mpg - especially when the car takes premium - was just too much to stomach. Add to that a kind of harsh suspension, loud cabin, and terrible sounding stereo system, and it was just too much to overcome my desire for another RWD sports car. Still, I’m sure I would have loved daily driving it!
Well, I tested one for 8 years and 100k miles and here's what you can expect... They are honestly pretty amazing sports cars, but you definitely need to understand a few things prior to going into this car if you're used to daily driving an accord or corolla. Firstly, the shifter is STIFF in the manual. You are going to feel like you're slamming it into gear, but that is a bit of the nature of a rear wheel drive manual. Second, it's STIFF over bumps, but again, this is what makes it handle so well on a track. That said, it's a BEAST on the track and if you want to have fun tracking a car, this a great place to start on a budget. As someone who owned a Mclaren and a Huracan, I would strongly discourage tracking them unless you're very skilled or have a lot of extra money to throw away on track insurance, tires, maintenance, and a pre-track inspection. The major issue with the BRZ is that the oil can slosh around and cause engine failures if you take bends too aggressively without the proper mods. A tech at a local subaru shop explained to me that this is the result of the orientation of the boxer engine. At 100k miles and mulitple years of driving it in the cold, on snow, with hundreds of pounds of weight room equipment, dogs, multiple moves and long trips, and lastly.... a 7k interval for an oil change that was the result of loaning my car to a friend when both of his cars were in the shop, it finally had some silvers in the oil pan. That said, even WITH the metal in the oil pain, my local shop through in a magnetic filter and changed the oil to 5w and told me I could still get another 20k miles out of it. 3k into the it and no issues but I can't on the car as much anymore. Anyways, take it for what you will, I wish someone would have explained this to me when I was 24 and buying my first RWD manual sports car! Oh... Also, no needs for a turbo. It's not a drag car. Get some brakes and nice tires and rip that thing on a track. If you max it out, then maybe consider a power upgrade but generally if you're just looking for 0-60 go get a hell cat and risk your entire life speeding on local highways 😂
The Verus oil pan gets rid of the oil pressure drops and I disagree about the turbo. Even after a turbo, it's still not going to be a drag car, but a much more enjoyable and more fun to drive car. Adding a turbo doesn't just have to be used in straight lines, it can make it that much more fun to drive on back roads, or anywhere you want to. Around 300whp in a car that light would be incredibly fun and the FA24 engines handle boost very well.
9:03 Why would any brake fluid need heat to be effective? Am I missing something? All it does is transfer pressure. In fact, the only reason it ought to make any difference is if you were boiling the old fluid, or expected so much extra heat that you would have been, with the other upgrades.
This is my next "mildly realistic" dreamcar - and this coming from a BMW owner. BMW owners are just that special breed. They acquire some sort of massochism in their car ownership but chose to continue anyway. After valve cover leaks, non-openable driver doors, bottom bearing gallore and cabling/harness rats nests (coming from Dingolfing OEM pre-equipped!) - BMW owners just shout "give us more" and open the classifieds. But this car is somehow special - what could go wrong on a Subyota engine with unconventional oiling and horizontally travelling pistons, right? RIGHT? Thanks for the great review - oh, and by the way - why isn't Hearst respnding to my "i wanna subscribe to your mag here in Latvia" requests?
I have a 24 GR86 automatic with fake sound disabled. At my track day with both windows down and a helmet on, I couldn't hear the ending until it hit about 6,800/7,000 rpm if over about 40 mph. It would have been very problematic if I had to shift the gears myself.
1:59 "And don't forget the Toyota GR Supra" Nah fam. Whoever edited this is right about the GR Supra. It's not comparable at all to the Miata, GR86/BRZ and the Cayman/Boxster. The Supra is a relatively heavy GT masquerading as a sports car. The driving is too insulated, unengaging and disconnected compared to the other cars mentioned.
Honestly, the rev hang and weird clutch feel are not as big of an issue as people claim it is. Once you get accustomed to it, you can definitely account for it and have a smooth ride. I do agree that it’s awfully jerky and difficult to drive smoothly in very low speeds (at least without lugging). The car definitely likes high RPM’s.
@@H4zZ4rDGaming1 Mainly just got used to the inconvenience. It’s still a big issue overall, but it’s not as perceptible to me anymore. If I drive a better manual car (BRZ and GR86 are the only manuals I’ve ever driven), I think I will feel it though. I know Porsche manuals have little to no rev hang in the lower gears (although the 6-speed as an insanely long 2nd gear). Ignorance is bliss lol
Subaru South Charlotte formerly on South Boulevard but now Cadillac Street charged me for free battery check to compensate for the tech's time. Never went back.
Just because the engine isn't having problems yet doesn't mean it's not starving for oil. Take either the GR86 or the BRZ on a track and turn right and you're going to have starving oil issues. It's just the design flaw. Hopefully Toyota will start putting in their own engines instead of the Subaru engine in the next GR86.
@@GABRIEL_CRAFT Bro, Toyota's engines have been having way more problems than Subaru's engines have. Look at all of the GR Corolla engines blowing from oil pressure drops during braking and the TRD Pro turbo engine problems.. The Verus oil pan gets rid of nearly all of the right hand turn drops on a track on the Boxer engines.
Don’t forget rx8 for comparison. Engine being lower to the ground to compare center of gravity and 4 seater. Though I’d say the rx8 has better rear seat room
Stock car was disappointing so I installed the Edelbrock eForce Supercharger kit and added over 100 HP which turned the car from just OK into what it should have been all along. I've got 40K in the car since supercharged (much better than turbo for lots of daily driver reasons) and it is so so much fun to drive compared to stock.
@procrastinator1842 on the contrary, I moved up to an areavin E. Texas that's very hilly and every road is twisty except the major highway where they did an immense amount of dirt moving. I'm 8 miles from town but but by road it's 12 miles, fun fun fun. The only thing I miss is that there are three tracks around Houston and (I went at least once a month, somerimes twice) up here there's only Dallas which is a 3 hour drive, just too far.
Agreed.. although, for a street driven car, the oil pressure drops really aren't an issue but I know it's better safe than sorry. If I bought one of these, I'd have it installed day 1.
Have you found the steering feel can be inconsistent? I chock it up to the electric steering tuning. At first I thought it was tire pressure or driving conditions, but I have manually checked pressure and temps, and since 99% of my mileage is commuting tertiary roads at 35-60mph my driving conditions are very consistent. At parking-lot speeds and 35mph does not feel as consistent as my hydraulic steering cars.
I'm more interested in it as a daily driver, not track. I still believe that more people would buy manual transmission cars if they knew how to drive them and I think dealers could play a role in teaching people how.
Very very interested in the BRZ SPORT TECH in Canada but not sure about how reliable this motor is with ongoing lawsuit related to blown engine and the RTV "issue" .I am retired and i drive 5000km per year, i want a sports car not to track the thing but just to drive it around the countryside in summer and on decent days in winter .For me will this car be reliable are the only people that have issueswith this car is because they drive it to hard ? Your feedback is very welcomed . Buy the way i find the seats in the BRZ very comfortable . Thanks
Simple steering mods can improve the feel. I installed extended STI steering bolts (threads all the way through subframe), aluminum steering rack bushings, and steering rack lockdowns which gave a little more road feedback and weight. Last weekend I added caster with Pedders offset top mounts which adds more weight and centering force. Finally feels decent to me. Better than Porsche EPS, way better than any BMW. Still a couple notches below Evora/Emira that I’ve tried.
@HNSKP 100%. Modern Porsche & BMW lost their way. And both are no longer in the business of light weight cars. The first metric i look at. Because inertia is a ***** & weight is the enemy.
@65hi863dhyu yeah. New cars have become machines you operate to go fast instead of a car you drive. Might as well make them all EVs if you just want a fast transportation machine.
@johnscpmg4862 straight aways are where you rest your arms. Acceleration is a very weak force compared to cornering & braking forces. But those require skill, so few comment on it.
I’m currently getting between 30.5-31.5 mpg consistently in my gr86… it’s far better on mpg than it’s rated for.. maybe they drove it everywhere in 2nd gear or something? Idk
For some reason the EPA's fuel economy rating has been waaaaay off for both generations of the BRZ/86. Real world numbers from drivers has averaged 5-7 mpg better than rated for both. I'm getting 27 overall, 31 highway
The BRZ and the Toyota GR86 are basically the same car, they just have different front grilles. The boxer engine would benefit greatly with a turbo, however with those Tacoma turbos lately, that may be a bad idea.
Subaru tech here (whom does not work at dealerships anymore) they waxed you guys with most of those services and the worst offender was that clutch fluid service. Jeezus dude, how desperate can they be.
I actually think they said the wrong mileage, what he was talking about sounded like the 30k service, which includes: Drain and refill clutch hydraulic system Engine oil and oil filter change Drain and refill brake hydraulic system Rotate tires The 36k service is just an oil change, cabin filter change, and component inspection
No mention at all of the RTV issues? Disappointing. I trust C&D and I wanted to hear your opinion on it as it is the only thing holding me back from buying one of these.
The RTV issue is so blown out of proportion. Only a small fraction of cars have that issue.. if you really want to be safe, just get an oil pressure gauge and monitor it. If it ever drops, you know there's prob some blocking the flow and can have it checked.
@@SteveHarrellRally Fair point, but it is a very public, known issue that is legit stopping people from buying the car, so I thought they would at least address it.
@@hhaste It might be blown out of proportion, but if I am spending $40,000 (Canadian here...) on a brand new car, having a known problem that could grenade the engine is not exactly confidence-inspiring.
I had the first generation in FR-S form, and while the engine was a disappointment, the car was entertaining and useful. Many people buying this will only have one car and this is a huge step backwards. While there was no usable back seat, at least I could flip the seat back down and toss my road bike in after removing the front wheel, an impossible feat in this car.
I've had both generations, the back seat and trunk are pretty much exactly the same on both. I load my bike in the back of my '23 on the regular. It's actually easier with the new car because there are release latches for the seat both in the trunk and in the cabin, so you can fold it down from either side
In addition to a fair amount of Canyon driving, I also enjoy long road trips. How is the noise and comfort in this on those long days? If the noise is a bit much, have people successfully mitigated it? Thx
Many including myself have noticed less road noise and harshness just from changing out the Pilot Sport 4 tires on the premium trim. I personally went with Conti ECS02 which has a more compliant sidewall. TRD performance dampers and sound insulation should also help.
The seats have zero lumbar support. I find myself arching my back about every 30 minutes. Auto trans is about 2400 rpm at 70 mph and standard is at 3,000. The standard with fake noise on is unacceptable loud on long trips. The 20 minute test drive was too long for me. The auto with fake noise off (my set up) is a bit louder than the average car but not bad. I can handle about 3 hrs in the car. Changing tires can help with noise, and adding sound insulation seems to work pretty well. It's not hard to find what people have used by searching the forums.
I live in the south where roads tend to be generally smooth. I wouldn't enjoy the car on some of the roads I've driven in north. They're too rough for the GR's suspension. For reference, I'm 41 and definitely not young anymore 🤣 if you're younger you may have higher tolerance.
It’s nice to see Carlos in front of a camera again. His reviews back on Motortrend about a decade ago were staples for me. Glad he’s back and doing well!
I would be content in a world with just Lago and John Davis from Motorweek
He never really stopped, but the algo is holding C&D's videos back big time (see this video's view count)
Okay, Mom
Has it been 10 years already??
So true
I just drove the BRZ Premium, BRZ tS, GR86 base and GR86 w/Performance package. All this week. And the BRZ Limited a few months ago. All were 2024's. Here's how they handled:
BRZ base: Most practical because it soaks up the bumps so well while still being planted. Cloth seats easier to get out of. Base tires allow tail out action but it is snappier than 86.
BRZ Limited: Still rides really well even with the 18's. Hardest car to get the tail out. Microsuede seats pull on your clothes as you get out and they are colder and hotter than cloth.
BRZ tS: This car really is meant for the track. The suspension jostles you around too much. I wanted out within 15 minutes. But the steering is really sharp.
GR86 base: Most fun because you can slide the rear everywhere and you will! Also the least refined suspension, really rough and bouncy at lower speeds. Does settle out at faster speeds.
GR86 Perf. Pack: Razor sharp steering reflexes and a somewhat tolerable ride. Much better balance of perf and comfort than tS or base GR86. Bumps are sharp but settle very quickly.
These cars are very sporty even the base BRZ, don't assume you need the craziest trim. You might need the most livable!
If you want to measure your fun in hours go BRZ. If measure your fun by the minute go GR86.
Love your last sentence as I am deciding between the two. If the BRZ is more livable by the hour, that’s my ride. Thanks for your random comment helping sway my choice to the BRZ.
@@Day7Reset That's why I went BRZ as well. If I was going to do more track visits I would've gone 86, but since most of my miles are on New England roads I got the Subaru because it's nicer on bumpy pavement
Wow, I wouldn't have thought the ride quality and driving characteristics of what I believed to be was basically the same car would differ so much between models and trims. Thanks for sharing the insight!
Bought the tS….in daily driving you look where you want to be on the road and it just gets there, ride is actually pretty supple for a car on low profile tyres.
I just recently purchased a 24BRZ premium. I didn’t go with the limited trim because I didn’t want the Alcanterra seats and 18” wheels. It’s definitely hard to move around in those Alcanterra seats and I plan on putting on some lightweight wheels in the near future. To me the suspension setup is a perfect balance for daily driving and track use if you need it. I shopped the GR86 but just could not find one around my location that didn’t have a bunch of dealer mark ups on it. Even if I could’ve found a GR86 with a reasonable pricing, I still would’ve bought the BRZ. With the GR86 being more tail happy I really appreciated the balance the BRZ has to offer. Plus the throttle mapping in the GR86 is a little bit more aggressive down low whereas the BRZ mapping is more linear and feels like it builds power all the way up to the 7500 redline. However, either car is fantastic and you cannot go wrong with either one. Really comes down to personal preference.
The experience at Subaru of Ann Arbor sounds very typical. Lots and lots of Subaru users in the Ann Arbor area, so I get the feeling that they can charge whatever they'd like and people would pay for it. Absolutely ridiculous pricing. Thank you for drawing attention to this.
Yeah. I live in Colorado and would never buy a Subaru here for the same reason.
As ridiculous as the cabin filter pricing is, they were probably just charging book time. Most shops use a database like Mitchell prodemand or Alldata that lists out retail labor times for repair/maintenance jobs. Most 5-10 min cabin filters I've seen are still listed as 0.5hrs on those databases. They can sometimes be wildly inconsistent. At times it pays too good like the cabin air, while others it's not even close to the actual time needed to do the job. Sure they could have cut the labor time. But with how underpaid mechanics are on top of mechanics shortages the odds of that are slim to none especially if the database already shows them they are allowed to charge that much.
So what I wonder, is since most of Subarus 6000 mile check ups are change the oil and "check" things, will you void the warranty if you simply get the oil change and do the air filter changes yourself?
@@ragweedmakesmesneeze you wouldn't. Just keep the receipt of air filter. It's cabin air filter anyways.
@@sl0907 NOT an excuse.
If I didn't have an ND Miata daily, I would probably have one of these. We are lucky to still be able to purchase cars like this.
Same. However, if the next version comes out with the Toyota engine I will trade in my ND for sure. 👍
@@AdamAllen They'll have to take 500 lbs out of it before they can try to convince me to sell the ND!
@@AdamAllen I wouldn't be so quick to make that decision. The GR Corolla engines are blowing a lot from oil pressure drop issues during braking, as well as the TRD Pro turbo engines in their trucks. Seems like Toyota made turbo engines aren't very reliable.. I know the Boxer engines have the same oil pressure drop issues, during right hand turns but that can be fixed with the Verus oil pan/baffle. Maybe the Toyota engines can too, idk.
Well said 🤙
I am in my 50s and bought one of these because I have twisty back roads right outside my driveway. He’s right if you’re driving on a twisty 2 Lane Rd. and not enjoying this vehicle, there’s something wrong with you. It’s a lot of fun and you don’t have to break the bank or the law to have it.
This car is dangerous for your age, soon enough you will find yourself wanting to buy young clothes, eat healthier food, exercise more, and wanting younger women, who will no doubt be attracted to this car 🤣
@@yume8380 soon enough? How about _right away_ , when most middle aged people will complain about just getting in and out of it!
@@Momo_8k So...he'll live😂🤣 to be 100? Some people of all ages spend too much time complaining!😖
@@yume8380 no young woman will be attracted to a half-ton baldie driving a Japan shitbox
Sadly, all of you guys dont have the company of younger women otherwise you dont need a car to play around with. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's mind boggling to me, as a child of the 70's, that sub 6 second 0-60 and low 13's in the quarter mile is "not too shabby". That's a quicker quarter mile than most Corvettes built before the 90's.
In a in an era when family sedans have been running sub 4 second 0-60s and with 10s and 11s in the quarter for years, the GR86/BRZ's numbers are considered "not too shabby." But most of those cars don't deliver an iota of the driving engagement you get from the BRZ. I keep itching to buy one to complement my fast (but kinda boring) sedan.
@@SteremyJeelecamrys and accords arent that fast yet, haha
@@SteremyJeeleyeah we don't count Tesla Model S Plaid or high end German cars as "everyday family sedans"
@@wigletron2846 Maybe you don’t. But my 2018 4-door Audi cost me less than a loaded Camry, and does 0-60 in 3.8.
I got the exact same red limited 6MT. Puts a smile on my face every drive, whether a commute or winding 2 lane roads.
same here but i went with the premium. after a year i put it on Tein Flex Z coilovers and will be adding ARP extended studs and wheel spacers soon to give it a better stance on the stock wheels. absolutely love this car on the road and on track
This car feels like a modernized version of my Porsche 944 and I love it. They addressed most of the key issues of the previous generation's engine while keeping the core things that make the car unique. One of my favorite new cars on the market right now
I had a gen 1 86 and drove it in Michigan winters. First with used Blizzaks and then new Vredstein winter tires. Absolute riot in snow and was probably my favorite time to drive it.
Driving it in track mode that let you get a little sideways but catch you if things didn't quite go the way you expected was excellent. AWD cars aside, I had no issues beating most vehicles when accelerating from a light in snowy conditions. Only time it showed signs of struggle was when the snow was high enough that my front bumper was turning into a plow. It still managed, just had to be more patient.
i had Blizzaks on my last Miata, and I loved them. I got Vredesteins for my BRZ and am really enjoying them as well, particularly for winter tires. I couldn't find an actual snow tire for the OEM rims, but the Quatracs have the mountain logo with snowflakes, which is "all-weather" correct? They're pretty good for Cleveland these days--we get less snow than we used to. But noisier and less responsive than the OEM Pilot Sport 4's. People always look at you as if you've lost your mind if your driving a little RWD car up North. All you need is the right tires!
I've driven my Miata in relatively deep snow with just new Michelin AS4s and was doing better than 99% of surrounding traffic. My buddy let me rip his 330i with blizzaks once in the snow and that was also really solid fun.
RWD in winter is fine with good tires.
you are the MF GHOST!~!
I’m an older driver 50+ who bought one of these in 2022. I’m amazed at cornering ability with power. 240 SX was about as close to this as I’ve owned and the BRZ is much better. I just don’t understand why they are flying off the lots. Any decade before this one you would hear a cheer from enthusiasts
I enjoy mine. I have similar mods and a couple more. I have gotten used to the quirks and I would recommend these cars to people who enjoy driving.
What mods do u recommend and what dont
@@tamimalkawari271 Oil pressure gauge to monitor just in case the RTV starts to block the pickup tube and the VERUS Oil pan/baffle to get rid of the right hand turn oil pressure drops, but those really aren't a problem on the street, just tracks.. but it's still better safe than sorry.
I have had my '23 BRZ for coming up on a year. It has been fantastic. I did add about 20 pounds to it by adding a bunch of sound deadening, which helps a ton in quieting down the car (plus unplugging the sound box). I am also averaging 26mpg. My worst ever was 22, and that was entirely canyon carving which really wasn't bad.
Where did you put the sound deadening? I've seen it done on TH-cam, but stripping out interiors seems like a TON of work that's just asking for trouble in the way of broken fasteners, etc.?
I’m curious about the location of the sound deadening as well. It’s my only real complaint with the car that’s not my own fault.
@@ragweedmakesmesneeze @DasWauto Yeah, I have seen the guy that removed the entire interior. I did not go that far. I used Kilmat 80mm on the trunk floor, under the rear seats, and on the rear wheel wells. The wheel wells helped quite a bit (All of the ting sounds from road debris/sand is gone). As I had the rear side panels off to do those, I also added resonix sound mat back there, as well as behind the door cards. The other big source of noise is the V-Bars that connect the strut towers to the firewall. There is a very distinct resonance that travels up through them from the suspension. Adding sound deadening to those actually helps a ton. BUT, you have to be aware of heat issues. The kilmat did great for the sound, but on a hot summer day with hard driving, it can gets soft and I am afraid of it dripping down onto the exhaust and causing a fire. So I am looking into some other material with a high temp rating. I have seen some that have a 300F rating, which should be plenty. But I won't know until I test it. But as the car sits now, I have done 6-8 hour drives in it and I don't have a headache from the sound levels in the car. I actually did do a bunch of sound measurements as well, and I saw roughly a 12dB drop from stock to having the above noted changes. Tested on a rather rough section of road at the same speed for each test.
@@Stuka87 Really interesting, thanks for sharing! I know this isn't built as a GT car, but I do love the idea of having a nice pleasant ride to the track, rip around for a few hours, then cruise home in quiet comfort. I guess you need like $70k for an Audio RS3 or something to have THAT experience though!
@@Stuka87 I wasn't sure what a V Bar was, but I googled and see that some folks have gone with v bars that are "flexible" and have vibration absorbing dampers. Perhaps instead of that, some good old fashioned exhaust pipes heat wrap would help?
Have a 981 cayman and a 16 BRZ as a daily. Both make me smile. If you can’t afford the Porsche then get this car, it’s so good and the new one has some more torque.
Or if you can afford the Porsche but are sick of the p-tax.
@ You are not kidding, absolutely true. Luckily I do my own work. But if I had to pay an indie or dealer, I easily could have bought a used Gen 1 BRZ. No regrets on the cayman, the flat six sound with headers is intoxicating, but there is a price to pay. Give me the flat six sound in the BRZ and I don’t need the cayman. BRZ is more playful at legal speeds.
@@ernesternest815 Agree that nothing beats that flat six howl! I also do most of my own work, but that AOS job sucks and I’m not confident enough to do a RMS on a 987. I enjoy the GR86 more on the daily tho as it’s limits are much lower. If the Boxster didn’t do nearly 70 in 2nd gear I’d still have it.
Is the 981 that much better than the 1st gen BRZ? In terms of pure driving experience...
@ yes. It’s more refined, and rotates so well. The flat six is so much better. But you need to be going much faster on public roads to get it to the edge. So it’s not as playful at normal speeds. The BRZ rear is more playful for sure, you will learn more about driving and car dynamics with the BRZ. The cayman you feel like a pro, it rotates that well. Having both is a lot of fun.
Oh man. I will NEVER go to Subaru of Ann Arbor. They appear dishonest. Hope Subaru addresses it with them otherwise it’s easy for someone to assume they’re accepting of this behaviour. Re the car these are best drivers car bang for buck.
For the price of this BRZ, I have a 70k Fiesta ST and 40k mile ND1 Miata.. I test drove the GR86 and it felt slow to respond compared to either of those two, which surprised me.. Clutch feel is non-existent and the shifter, despite going straight into the gearbox, feels kinda sloppy.. Too many things i'd have to 'fix' for a new car.. but im a picky mofo lol (i've owned 35 cars and im in my early 40s, lol)
Edit: Point is.. buy used.. you get way more for your money.. Why get a compromise vehicle when you can get a Miata (much better driver's car, imo) and a 'beater/dd' (FiST in my case)
They'll probably address it by sending out a bulletin to all of the dealers making it mandatory that they charge as much as well.
I mean, it's Subaru of Ann Arbor. They've got a flood of Foresters needing service while their owners shop at Whole Foods, so they have to prioritize! (seriously, have you ever been to Whole Foods in Ann Arbor? It's like a Subaru dealer parking lot!)
For what it’s worth, don’t go to the Volkswagen dealership in Ann Arbor. Truly shitty staff there that berates the customers. Had a major service done on a vehicle there. A few years later I needed a copy of the invoice so I could claim a class action lawsuit against VW. I call them, the employee starts telling me I should keep better track of my service history, it’s not his job to help look it up, etc. I simply asked if they could please look into the system for me and the reason. That was the response I got from them on the phone. I didn’t go full Karen, because I had a legitimate reason, but I demanded to speak to his superior for being a total arsehole like that. He slammed the phone down and hung up on me. They blocked my phone number because I had to try from a different phone to get back in contact. Same thing again. I said F it and took my business to Lafontaine VW. The treatment was 180 degrees different. Amazing staff and honest work. Ann Arbor seems to have a problem with shjtty behavior and dealerships.
@@gordonmills2748 sounds like a the PNW
Edit: they issue you your choice of a Forester, Outback, or WRX once you move up here. No joke.
I finally bought a 2018 at the start of this year with about 50k kilometres on it. Crazy how great these handle for how usable they are. It’s like a rear wheel drive civic si I always say!
@@zorkyporky that's a great description.
but which has best handling between the two, i have 2024 civic SI black??
@classicdufferin8739 not a Civic. FWD sucks...
@@65hi863dhyu FWD sucks? But CTR holds the best record in Nurburgring pound per pound lol😁😁😁😁😁
@classicdufferin8739 yes. It sucks. Terminal understeer. Its an economy car thing. Packaging. More space. No driveshaft. Highly inferior to rwd for handling dynamics. If you have to ask this question? You can't drive & you don't know **** about driving. Why F1 cars wouldn't entertain cheap, sh****, FWD 🍻🏎
I love mine. 23 brz limited 6mt. Added gr performance exhaust, gr oem tail, and disabled the fake engine noise at the dealer. Car to me is perfect. Had it for a year and i cant belive it was only 32k brand new.
Nice to know you did not have RTV issues over the 40k experience.
RTV is nonsense and blew out of proportions. Oil starvation is indeed a real issue, you must keep your oil levels high before doing any track day .
@@Gurka84 overfill & enjoy. 45K miles. Road & Track. No engine support mods. Sees the rev limiter daily, 9 track day & 2 AutoX
The engine design is the issue, not the RTV (but it does exacerbate the issue)
@@Gurka84 Or just get the Verus oil pan. It's been shown to get rid of almost all of the right hand turn pressure drops on a track.
Kudos for being willing to call out the dealership by name for bad service.
Great car!
I test drove one for 24hrs; put 230 miles on it and enjoyed every one. You don’t need to spend 100k to feel the way those cars drive (minus the power).
I ended up in an MX5 because the roads where I live are too rough for the stiffer Subie suspension.
SAVE THE MANUALS!!!
I don't understand why they don't let you disable the fake engine noise through the infortainment. It's so dumb
It probably adds development cost. Using an old infortainment system keeps cost down. A button to switch it off would of been better
It literally takes 5 seconds to disable (Brz owner) you open your passenger door and pop the side vent and unplug
What's weirder is existing software in the car that turns off the fake engine noises. Turn on your cruise control and the noises stop.
@@marccandrift why should you have to fiddle with that stuff when there's a simple software fix
@@Atthebarsober yeah a button works too
Awesome video - always love videos with Carlos. Surprised by the specific commentary on Subaru of Ann Arbor, but love it! Way too much dealer hubris over the past couple of years. I hope those dealerships that were egregiously bad will be punished now that it is becoming a buyer’s market…
I've had my base 22 GR86 since around May of 2022. Its a fantastic car.
I have a '22 Limited in Ice Silver Metallic and LOVE it; I bought it almost on a whim, as Carvana gave me 40% more for my FR-S than what I had paid for it four years earlier, so I was able to turn around and plow that windfall into a big down payment. I'll have it paid off with less than 20K miles on the clock and am looking forward to driving it for ages to come. I just wish I could drive it in winter like you all did, but the thought of that salt just eating away at everything is just so depressing, so I still keep a utility car around for use in the slop.
I had the 1st gen and now the 2nd. Boy, it was like a well worn glove from the moment I sat in at the dealer after paperwork. Extra torque make it much better at any maneuver, though I opted to put all-weather tires that slip more as my daily, so I could roadtrip in early or late season and not worry about traction. Love it. Though my 1st gen had waaaaay better World Rally blue paint and a better clutch feel too. I hope to keep this one for a long time and drive it for fun.
I have 70k on a GR86. Stock clutch feel is terrible, but swapping the pedal spring made a huge difference. Stock brakes are definitely weak for performance driving. I think they put economy car ceramic pads on as they don't dust much and they have that lack of feel I've experienced with other ceramic pads. Mine is a daily driver and I average over 30 mpg when driving in normal traffic conditions. For snow, I went two sizes taller on the sidewalls with Blizzaks to gain about 22mm of ground clearance. They fit, but it's tight. The taller gearing is noticeable when it's not slippery, but it's really good in the snow and can still spin on command. The speedometer error isn't enough to be an issue.
It’s a really nice car and is really affordable. I think it is an excellent value at $32k especially with inflation.
I very-much appreciate calling out dealership BS. Seriously, coming from someone that works at a dealership, DO NOT bring your car to a dealer for service if you want a good value or quality work.
love my 2nd gen but absolutely agree about the clutch feel. had to swap the stock spring for the MTEC clutch assist spring, and it made a huge difference in clutch feel and consistency
Unplug the fake sound and get a Borla type s exhaust cars perfect!
I own a GR86 in So Cal… best car I’ve ever owned 😊
Modern day Datsun Z that you won't see in 15 years.. get 'em now and enjoy the ride!
Dollar for dollar best sports car money can buy.
you are assuming you can buy one at MSRP. well, now you can because we all bought something else.
@@potatochobit, Subaru VIP program can get you under MSRP with no hassle.
New, maybe but a used C6 Corvette is in the same price range and I'd argue that's better for your money.
@@hhaste Yes new. Also, you're not considering the extra fuel/tire/repair costs you'd pay compared to the BRZ. Comes out around 15-20k more expensive after 5 years. The C6 is better compared to a Supra, and there the newer Supra probably wins on value and fun.
You guys nailed it pretty well with this one.
Please be aware that the clutch takeup point is adjustable. One of the first things I did with mine, and it improved the driving experience. It took me about 10 minutes to do.
those winter photos are awesome ! always dug this ride along with the toyota version
I liked and subbed not because I own the same 2nd gen BRZ, was just too happy to see Carlos in the channel!
Seems like a lot of fun for the $$$. Also, good to hear you call out a specific dealership.
I seriously considered this car but I ended up with a 2024 Miata sport soft top for dealer invoice. Miata is more fun daily driving, way better mpg, can run on 91 gas, easier to work on, more reliable, and good enough storage if you remove the passenger seat. Lower insurance as well.
@@mudhudgie95
Thank you, your overall assessment helped me make my decision.
But I'm still going to wait for the next generation which should be just around the corner.
@nostradamus7648 rumors are its going to be a hybrid. My Miata is getting 37 to 40 mpg without trying. It is not broken in yet and windy and cold, so it will only improve in warm weather once broken in.
@@nostradamus7648I don't think the next Miata is supposed to be out until 2030? Unless that's right around the corner for you.
@AmosDohms
I saw some internet info that it might be 2026.
I just got off the phone with a Mazda sales girl who says that they might not even have a 2025.
@@nostradamus7648 According to a forum post, a Mazda director stated that the ND platform is expected to be around until 2030. Maybe they come out with an ND4 in 2026, but the ND3 just came out, so idk. In any case, I'd buy with confidence.
I got 13k on mine and so far soo good. track days are cool too.
A good review. The ts certainly eliminates most of the downsides mentioned. On the service "things" and intervals, a lot of us DIY track junkies will, of course change oil and filter far more often. Every 5k miles normally but regardless of miles, right before a track day. On that as well, for those who are above novice but not ready to buy the tow vehicle, trailer and track-only car, the step before involves getting to the track early and swapping the brake pads, rotors and wheels/tires. This allows more aggressive pads with dedicated rotors so as to not munge up the street rotors with incompatible material (try Hawk black and be ready to melt caliper piston seals). The weight and power of the BRZ also gives the driver the low cost and low wear to keep track supply costs to a minimum. Been there, done that. And paying to change the cabin filter? I've never had a cabin filter changed and look, I'm not dead or anything.
The clutch feel issue is fixed by removing the assist spring on the clutch pedal - makes a huge improvement in feel and doesn't cost anything.
9:01 DOT 4 is what brake fluid this takes. I think he meant the special racing formula. Even OEM is DOT 4
Right on, kudos to you for telling the dealerships what a rip off they are. Hope your corporate bosses don’t tell you not to do that anymore. Somebody’s gotta talk like the real folks out here that are buying these things. Kudos again.
Awesome sports car! Sorry to hear that Subaru of Ann Arbor spoiled the experience a bit. I hate when a dealership like Subaru of Ann Arbor ruins your experience of a great car with jacked up prices for frivolous reasons.
My Toyota GR 86 dealer replace my cabin air filter as part of 10-15k mile service free of charge
*I love the car!*
Perfect for some laps on the Nordschleife
Love my BRZ!!!
Studded Snow Tires on their own steelies (and a two floor-jack minimum) make predictions of snow and ice WAY MORE interesting.
I appreciate the Ann Arbor Subaru callout, I've been going to them since I got my '22 BRZ but haven't hit the more expensive maintenance milestones yet.
I came close to buying a new GR86 Premium a couple times this past summer and fall. The GR86/BRZ twins are great cars. In the end, I just couldn’t pull the trigger. The biggest hang-up for me was the fuel economy. I’m on track to drive 24,000 miles a year, and averaging mid-20s mpg - especially when the car takes premium - was just too much to stomach. Add to that a kind of harsh suspension, loud cabin, and terrible sounding stereo system, and it was just too much to overcome my desire for another RWD sports car. Still, I’m sure I would have loved daily driving it!
I'm getting my GR86 Hakone Edition in January 🥰
Lucky you!!!
Well, I tested one for 8 years and 100k miles and here's what you can expect...
They are honestly pretty amazing sports cars, but you definitely need to understand a few things prior to going into this car if you're used to daily driving an accord or corolla. Firstly, the shifter is STIFF in the manual. You are going to feel like you're slamming it into gear, but that is a bit of the nature of a rear wheel drive manual. Second, it's STIFF over bumps, but again, this is what makes it handle so well on a track. That said, it's a BEAST on the track and if you want to have fun tracking a car, this a great place to start on a budget. As someone who owned a Mclaren and a Huracan, I would strongly discourage tracking them unless you're very skilled or have a lot of extra money to throw away on track insurance, tires, maintenance, and a pre-track inspection.
The major issue with the BRZ is that the oil can slosh around and cause engine failures if you take bends too aggressively without the proper mods. A tech at a local subaru shop explained to me that this is the result of the orientation of the boxer engine. At 100k miles and mulitple years of driving it in the cold, on snow, with hundreds of pounds of weight room equipment, dogs, multiple moves and long trips, and lastly.... a 7k interval for an oil change that was the result of loaning my car to a friend when both of his cars were in the shop, it finally had some silvers in the oil pan.
That said, even WITH the metal in the oil pain, my local shop through in a magnetic filter and changed the oil to 5w and told me I could still get another 20k miles out of it. 3k into the it and no issues but I can't on the car as much anymore. Anyways, take it for what you will, I wish someone would have explained this to me when I was 24 and buying my first RWD manual sports car!
Oh... Also, no needs for a turbo. It's not a drag car. Get some brakes and nice tires and rip that thing on a track. If you max it out, then maybe consider a power upgrade but generally if you're just looking for 0-60 go get a hell cat and risk your entire life speeding on local highways 😂
The Verus oil pan gets rid of the oil pressure drops and I disagree about the turbo. Even after a turbo, it's still not going to be a drag car, but a much more enjoyable and more fun to drive car. Adding a turbo doesn't just have to be used in straight lines, it can make it that much more fun to drive on back roads, or anywhere you want to. Around 300whp in a car that light would be incredibly fun and the FA24 engines handle boost very well.
@@hhaste curious, how many miles with the turbo?
9:03 Why would any brake fluid need heat to be effective? Am I missing something? All it does is transfer pressure. In fact, the only reason it ought to make any difference is if you were boiling the old fluid, or expected so much extra heat that you would have been, with the other upgrades.
40,000 miles in a little over a year is crazy work
I love my 86, Amazing cars.
This is my next "mildly realistic" dreamcar - and this coming from a BMW owner. BMW owners are just that special breed. They acquire some sort of massochism in their car ownership but chose to continue anyway. After valve cover leaks, non-openable driver doors, bottom bearing gallore and cabling/harness rats nests (coming from Dingolfing OEM pre-equipped!) - BMW owners just shout "give us more" and open the classifieds. But this car is somehow special - what could go wrong on a Subyota engine with unconventional oiling and horizontally travelling pistons, right? RIGHT? Thanks for the great review - oh, and by the way - why isn't Hearst respnding to my "i wanna subscribe to your mag here in Latvia" requests?
I have a 24 GR86 automatic with fake sound disabled. At my track day with both windows down and a helmet on, I couldn't hear the ending until it hit about 6,800/7,000 rpm if over about 40 mph. It would have been very problematic if I had to shift the gears myself.
1:59 "And don't forget the Toyota GR Supra"
Nah fam. Whoever edited this is right about the GR Supra. It's not comparable at all to the Miata, GR86/BRZ and the Cayman/Boxster. The Supra is a relatively heavy GT masquerading as a sports car. The driving is too insulated, unengaging and disconnected compared to the other cars mentioned.
THANK YOU TOYOTA AND SUBARU FOR MAKING AFFORDABLE FUN RWD COUPES.
Honda you are booorrrinnnngggf
literally my other, new-to-me car
I'm surprised there was no comment about how frustrating the transmission/synchros are at low rpm / daily driving conditions
I hate the modern clutches with no feel.
yup!!
Honestly, the rev hang and weird clutch feel are not as big of an issue as people claim it is. Once you get accustomed to it, you can definitely account for it and have a smooth ride. I do agree that it’s awfully jerky and difficult to drive smoothly in very low speeds (at least without lugging). The car definitely likes high RPM’s.
@andrewchang7194 the rev hang drives me insane! not sure how you can say it's not a big deal haha
@@H4zZ4rDGaming1 Mainly just got used to the inconvenience. It’s still a big issue overall, but it’s not as perceptible to me anymore. If I drive a better manual car (BRZ and GR86 are the only manuals I’ve ever driven), I think I will feel it though. I know Porsche manuals have little to no rev hang in the lower gears (although the 6-speed as an insanely long 2nd gear). Ignorance is bliss lol
$70 labor for cabin air filter change at stealership, amazing. DIY people lol
Great video. Thanks!
Isn't the “steering feel” gone after the previous gen, which still can't match the quieter smoother riding E36's (especially with Z3's quick rack)?
Any noticeable undercarriage rust after one winter?
I doubt any. Cars all have underbody coating these days which last at least 5 years, even with the salt heavy roads in southeast Michigan.
I have a 2018 BRZ PP
Daily driven / Winter driven
No rust issues at all
It depends on how often you get a car wash with an undercarriage clean. Don't let the salt stay on there too long! One winter shouldn't be too bad.
Great video, however 5.4 seconds is a stretch 0-60 I can’t even break 6
It's Carlos again!
I love when he shifted he said Ya 😂😂😂😂
Subaru South Charlotte formerly on South Boulevard but now Cadillac Street charged me for free battery check to compensate for the tech's time. Never went back.
Gee, 40k miles and no oil starvation issues. Seems like an overblown problem.
Great review!
Just because the engine isn't having problems yet doesn't mean it's not starving for oil. Take either the GR86 or the BRZ on a track and turn right and you're going to have starving oil issues. It's just the design flaw. Hopefully Toyota will start putting in their own engines instead of the Subaru engine in the next GR86.
@@GABRIEL_CRAFT over fill it for track use?
@@churchofbrap876 Or add a baffled oil pan
@@GABRIEL_CRAFT Bro, Toyota's engines have been having way more problems than Subaru's engines have. Look at all of the GR Corolla engines blowing from oil pressure drops during braking and the TRD Pro turbo engine problems.. The Verus oil pan gets rid of nearly all of the right hand turn drops on a track on the Boxer engines.
I wish Australia have higher octane petroleum
Don’t forget rx8 for comparison. Engine being lower to the ground to compare center of gravity and 4 seater. Though I’d say the rx8 has better rear seat room
Stock car was disappointing so I installed the Edelbrock eForce Supercharger kit and added over 100 HP which turned the car from just OK into what it should have been all along. I've got 40K in the car since supercharged (much better than turbo for lots of daily driver reasons) and it is so so much fun to drive compared to stock.
You obviously don't have enough twisties in your area.
@procrastinator1842 on the contrary, I moved up to an areavin E. Texas that's very hilly and every road is twisty except the major highway where they did an immense amount of dirt moving. I'm 8 miles from town but but by road it's 12 miles, fun fun fun.
The only thing I miss is that there are three tracks around Houston and (I went at least once a month, somerimes twice) up here there's only Dallas which is a 3 hour drive, just too far.
still waiting for Verus oil pan or the Driver's Paddock oil pan to come out before this car is recommended
Agreed.. although, for a street driven car, the oil pressure drops really aren't an issue but I know it's better safe than sorry. If I bought one of these, I'd have it installed day 1.
Have you found the steering feel can be inconsistent? I chock it up to the electric steering tuning.
At first I thought it was tire pressure or driving conditions, but I have manually checked pressure and temps, and since 99% of my mileage is commuting tertiary roads at 35-60mph my driving conditions are very consistent. At parking-lot speeds and 35mph does not feel as consistent as my hydraulic steering cars.
I'm more interested in it as a daily driver, not track. I still believe that more people would buy manual transmission cars if they knew how to drive them and I think dealers could play a role in teaching people how.
Very very interested in the BRZ SPORT TECH in Canada but not sure about how reliable this motor is with ongoing lawsuit related to blown engine and the RTV "issue" .I am retired and i drive 5000km per year, i want a sports car not to track the thing but just to drive it around the countryside in summer and on decent days in winter .For me will this car be reliable are the only people that have issueswith this car is because they drive it to hard ? Your feedback is very welcomed . Buy the way i find the seats in the BRZ very comfortable . Thanks
I hear the engine noise coming out from a speaker i'm having a terrible time.
1:30 Driving experience
3:30 Great MPG
7:05 Brakes
9:20 Maintenance
Great vid but the real question remains.....any chance we get Carlos on an episode of the Carmudgeon show?
No problems with oil starvation?
This has criminally few views
How is the electric power steering? I wish it still had hydraulic steering. Havent found a EPS that feels connected to the road.
One of the best available. Added solid aluminum steering rack bushings. Much, much better steering & chassis than my S2K. Not as good as my Evora.
Simple steering mods can improve the feel. I installed extended STI steering bolts (threads all the way through subframe), aluminum steering rack bushings, and steering rack lockdowns which gave a little more road feedback and weight. Last weekend I added caster with Pedders offset top mounts which adds more weight and centering force. Finally feels decent to me. Better than Porsche EPS, way better than any BMW. Still a couple notches below Evora/Emira that I’ve tried.
@HNSKP 100%. Modern Porsche & BMW lost their way. And both are no longer in the business of light weight cars. The first metric i look at. Because inertia is a ***** & weight is the enemy.
@65hi863dhyu yeah. New cars have become machines you operate to go fast instead of a car you drive. Might as well make them all EVs if you just want a fast transportation machine.
@johnscpmg4862 straight aways are where you rest your arms. Acceleration is a very weak force compared to cornering & braking forces. But those require skill, so few comment on it.
I’m currently getting between 30.5-31.5 mpg consistently in my gr86… it’s far better on mpg than it’s rated for.. maybe they drove it everywhere in 2nd gear or something? Idk
For some reason the EPA's fuel economy rating has been waaaaay off for both generations of the BRZ/86. Real world numbers from drivers has averaged 5-7 mpg better than rated for both. I'm getting 27 overall, 31 highway
I can't deal with the fake engine noise like I'm playing Gran Turismo in a real car.
Just unplug the module behind the gloves box
Sounds good ol natural
Lol @ the dig on Subaru of Ann Arbor.🤣
The BRZ and the Toyota GR86 are basically the same car, they just have different front grilles. The boxer engine would benefit greatly with a turbo, however with those Tacoma turbos lately, that may be a bad idea.
Rear suspension is also different.
Subaru tech here (whom does not work at dealerships anymore) they waxed you guys with most of those services and the worst offender was that clutch fluid service. Jeezus dude, how desperate can they be.
any plans for a convertible version of BRZ or Toyota 86?
They recommend changing clutch fluid at 36k or was something wrong with it?
I actually think they said the wrong mileage, what he was talking about sounded like the 30k service, which includes:
Drain and refill clutch hydraulic system
Engine oil and oil filter change
Drain and refill brake hydraulic system
Rotate tires
The 36k service is just an oil change, cabin filter change, and component inspection
$70 just in labor to change an air filter? That's absurd
yes does look nice with black steels wheels
NOT ME PLANNING A TRIP TO SUBARU OF ANN ARBOR
Carlos probably has a better camera in his pocket than the one used to shoot the video. The video is dingy and the car is breathing!
I really wanted one of these but the price was too close to a 230i so I went with the BMW. GR86 is a good car but if you can swing it, get the BMW.
No mention at all of the RTV issues? Disappointing. I trust C&D and I wanted to hear your opinion on it as it is the only thing holding me back from buying one of these.
It's a long term review of the specific car they had. No mention of RTV means it wasn't an issue on this car so there's nothing to talk about 🤷♀
The RTV issue is so blown out of proportion. Only a small fraction of cars have that issue.. if you really want to be safe, just get an oil pressure gauge and monitor it. If it ever drops, you know there's prob some blocking the flow and can have it checked.
@@SteveHarrellRally Fair point, but it is a very public, known issue that is legit stopping people from buying the car, so I thought they would at least address it.
@@hhaste It might be blown out of proportion, but if I am spending $40,000 (Canadian here...) on a brand new car, having a known problem that could grenade the engine is not exactly confidence-inspiring.
@ I'm just not sure what they could have said about it beyond "some owners have had this issue but it didn't come up for us"
Sunroof. This car is, for me, almost perfect. Alas, I cannot drive happy without a susnrof. Alas, I will never own this beauty. Sad me.
I had the first generation in FR-S form, and while the engine was a disappointment, the car was entertaining and useful. Many people buying this will only have one car and this is a huge step backwards. While there was no usable back seat, at least I could flip the seat back down and toss my road bike in after removing the front wheel, an impossible feat in this car.
Huh? You can flip the back seats down in the 2nd gen, and have enough room back there for four spare tires and a helmet.
put a supercharger on it, wake it right up.
You can put a bike in it after taking the front wheel out
I've had both generations, the back seat and trunk are pretty much exactly the same on both. I load my bike in the back of my '23 on the regular. It's actually easier with the new car because there are release latches for the seat both in the trunk and in the cabin, so you can fold it down from either side
In addition to a fair amount of Canyon driving, I also enjoy long road trips. How is the noise and comfort in this on those long days? If the noise is a bit much, have people successfully mitigated it? Thx
Many including myself have noticed less road noise and harshness just from changing out the Pilot Sport 4 tires on the premium trim. I personally went with Conti ECS02 which has a more compliant sidewall.
TRD performance dampers and sound insulation should also help.
@@HNSKP Thx
The seats have zero lumbar support. I find myself arching my back about every 30 minutes. Auto trans is about 2400 rpm at 70 mph and standard is at 3,000. The standard with fake noise on is unacceptable loud on long trips. The 20 minute test drive was too long for me. The auto with fake noise off (my set up) is a bit louder than the average car but not bad. I can handle about 3 hrs in the car. Changing tires can help with noise, and adding sound insulation seems to work pretty well. It's not hard to find what people have used by searching the forums.
I live in the south where roads tend to be generally smooth. I wouldn't enjoy the car on some of the roads I've driven in north. They're too rough for the GR's suspension. For reference, I'm 41 and definitely not young anymore 🤣 if you're younger you may have higher tolerance.
All the Detroit area Subaru dealers are shady, but Ann Arbor is the worst.