I know its a serious moment, but Diana's unimpressed stare she gives Hawkgirl when she walks back into the conference room and quits the Justice League will always live rent free in my head. There is absolutely no question how she voted in that room.
Diana values loyalty and trust between groups and family. Hawkgirl broke that and I assume Diana figures if she can betray us once, she can easily do it again.
Yknow ppl really dont seem to understand the kindness of people like diana. They give so many chances, they trust ppl so much, they believe that everyone possess real kindness and that ppl are genuinely good. However, once theyre crossed and once they feel betrayed, they wont just shrug it off and let it be. I can always forgive but for as long as whoever betrayed me is still the same person as they were before, i wont hold back my words or punches.
I can understand it, she bonded with Hawkgirl and to be betrayed by her and John saying she doesn't need to take criticism from people whose lives were hurt by her betrayal does give a reason for Diana to hate her. They have a tense relationship but the pain is still there
"Like Oil and Vinegar: We go together, but we don't mix." Yo, my core belief structure is completely anithetical to yours, but the bonds we built are somehow stronger than that, so I'll always be around to tell you how wrong you are/kick the crap out of anyone who messes with you.
Diana doesn't "hate" Shayera, what she has is a grudge, a completely understandable one. Betrayal of that level should be punished, but at the same time... Diana left that grudge to fester, against a person that she does love very much, and that blinded her to what Shayera did and was doing to redeem herself. This conflict was just... human, their hyperreality sometimes makes us forget that they are people, no matter how larger than life they seem... some things simply don't change being a person.
It isn't something that I appreciated when I was younger, but looking back I really do appreciate how they handled this whole entire character arc. I find that most shows, when doing betrayal plots or just making characters hate each other, tend to do it for some really flimsy reasonings that might make someone realistically upset but not enough for what proceeds to happen afterwards and on the flipside of that spectrum you sometimes have characters fall out and then rekindle not even an episode later sometimes as if nothing happens. I like how with HG, you could feel the lasting effects of her betrayal for a good part of the season before things begin going back to normal and even afterwards you can feel that things still aren't the same between her and the rest of the league. It both shows that earning forgiveness is a lengthy process and that sometimes it may never completely come, but she still tries anyway and I think that's pretty inspiring.
Shiara is competent, strong and smart. With no magic to use as a crutch. Let's not forget her extremely adept ability to adapt to the culture and language she infiltrated. She uses idioms, understands cultural references. She's awesome.
I don't think that Wonder Woman actually hates Hawkgirl in the DCAU. Diana was definitely angry with her for her betrayal, held a grudge, and they will never be the same friends that they were before the betrayal, but at least they are able to tolerate each other after the balance episode.
I liked how their characters were handled post starcrossed. I think a reason why the betrayal impacted Diana more than the rest was because she was the first of the league to vouch for the thanagarians, while the rest were hesitant at first. Overall, I can’t express enough how awesome of a job this show did at making the female heroes competent and compelling, without shoving it in your face or blatantly filling an agenda.
I don't usually comment on videos because I'm lazy and don't think anyone really cares about my opinion, But I just wanted to say I love your essays so much - the production value is crazy good, And there's definitely not enough people taking American cartoons as seriously as your videos do and exploring the deeper themes that some of them have. Particularly with Justice League content that is a untapped gold mine of emotional resonance. Untapped until you came around of course
You’re right no one else is making videos about these cartoons and these video essays are just showing how much thought and unappreciated greatness has gone into these cartoons
You don't need to be friends with someone in order to respect them. Sometimes, we need someone to oppose us so we can see more of ourselves, and traits in others that we can learn from to be better. The truth is... You don't have to like someone to learn from them. In this world that couldn't be more true. 😇
That little "... ma'am" tho 😂 But back to the actual content: the whole reason the animosity exists is because of how much they love each other. Shaira's betrayel flipped the "fuck you" switch in Diana, and Shaira's own stubborn attitude and hurt feelings meant it was reciprocated. Side note: always loved DCAU's Wonder Woman being the daughter of Hades. Such a fun twist
God I miss the DCAU, imo it was the best prolonged work they’ve produced and was at a consistently high level. Also helps that Kevin Conroy delivered an incredible Batman.
I really want justice league back. I didn't watch it as a child and it's a shame honestly. There was so much more they could've done with the show and I feel like all that untapped potential would be really appreciated today as a new show
I'd say as tempting as it is to wish for this series to return... the latest DCAU additions while not bad are nowhere near as fulfilling and it'd be better for everyone to move onto new things both the audience and the people who made the shows. That and with the passing of Kevin Conroy such an idea of continuing it on for many fans would seem especially odd now.
It had a good ending, most shows can't even get a finale as conclusive as JLU did so I prefer to let it rest and not end up like The CW Flash, bloated and increasingly worse after it's peak.
@@electricfeverx976 yea I agree it had a good ending but leading up to said ending they could've added so much more lore or higher power DC stuff like how they did with the ending. I would've also loved much fewer filler episodes or at least have more of the filler be stuff like booster golds episode.
What people don’t realize is Diana automatically values women 10x more then men it’s just reality so weather it’s showcased or not Diana values shyeras friendship ALOT so when she betrayed her it hit 10 x harder cause. Ww is used to place where “sisters” never betray one another so that’s why she held a grudge but if u notice other then green lantern only cause there dating ww and hawkgirls relashionship is the only one they explored after the fact of her betrayal and I think that says something
You know this got me of an idea for a new Injustice league where it would take place after Lex gets the pardon and Grodd goes to jail after the Secret Society episode this version of the Injustice league female members are the Golden Glider (Lisa Snart) and the Silver Swan (Helen Alexandros) where they would be more sister than Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl would ever be because not only would Golden Glider not only hate the Flash for causing the Top’s death she probably would put Diana as the second person she would hate the most because she grew up in a abusive household where a father who was a drunk cop who would beat her and her brother (Captain Cold) up, had to work for everything and lose the man who she wanted to spend the rest of her life with, while Diana claim that she relates to that and say that the Top was abusive and manipulative to her but he wasn’t it was a genuine love not like Joker and Harley Quinn, so she called her out on that where she never went through that and she never grew up with a dad and not really tragic as she claims it is as she lived on an island full of paranoid women and believe that Women are victims of Circumstances because both Glider and Swan chose those lives no one pulling their strings and as for the Silver Swan she wants Wonder Woman dead because Ares promised her that her transformation will be permanent.
"The Balance" has always been one of my favorite JLU episodes along side the finale, the episode five of the og seven get turned into kids, the beginning JLU episode where Green Arrow joins the JL, and the episode where Green Arrow, Green Lantern ans Supergirl trave to the future to help the remaining members Legion of Superheroes, Braniac-5 and Bouncing Boy! 😊
I'd like to see you cover the lessons and stories surrounding the three Morgan Le Fey episodes, since that covers several characters like J'onn J'onzz, Etrigan/Jason Blood, and Mordred
Justice Lord Hawk Girl's comment to Superman about the world not being ready for him to take out Luthor, not ready for their strong arm invasion makes greater sense in this context.
Hawkgirl is a legit Amazon persona so Diana sees her like one of her sisters and the big shock is that she isn't: She obeyed the male leaders of Thanagar over her JLA sister.
It's been a rough decade or so for DC fans. To the point where I'd genuinely started to forget why I leaned more DC than Marvel. So thank you for the constant reminders of why I fell in love with these characters in the first place.
Oh god, tell me about it! I have to explain to people that i love(ed) DC more because of the realistic complexity of everything in its universe. What they're doing since Rebirth is just awful.
I'm not sure precisely when the change was made for Alfred to be ex-military, but I /think/ that it was after the Justice League cartoon was made. Maybe it was a New 52 change? If anyone can prove me wrong, then by all means, I'd love to know
Every video u make it, it makes me so emotional. You’re so perceptive in your interpretations of these characters and themes and when the music swells at the end it feels like I went on an emotional journey
did you ever do videos about Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes? That's one of my favorite super hero things outside of DC that I've watched multiple times
While I feel Diana has her reasons for holding onto her distrust and her grudge against Hawkgirl because of Hawkgirl proving she wasn't throwing in her lot with the league and proving her loyalty with them, she is still that naive warrior princess in that she doesn't consider the fact that while yes, while she cares about loyalty above all else, and Hawkgirl also values that kind of loyalty, Diana never considered that Hawkgirl's loyalty was first to her people, not to a bunch of people she only met like a year ago As for the rest of her anger issues throughout the show, she had never had a taste for how the grain of life ran outside of themyscira, while she got that world ending threats were a once every so often kind of thing, she never got that things just below that that most heroes deal with on the daily happen well, on the daily. For the longest time she felt distant because she didn't want to get attached to anything, but then she saw that if she continues to pursue the ideal of seeing justice be done, she might well be here for god knows how long, and that ticked her off that helping to continue seeing justice be done in the world outside of her tiny little island wasn't ever going to have just one easy fix. That's why she was particularly angry in that opening of the episode where she was like, "I just wanted one day off where I could pretend that the ideal goal I so greatly want to see accomplished could actually happen without me being there to keep it going" and that's also why in that same vein of anger, therein lies her reason why she started to get truly attached to the league and some of it's members in particular, namely Bruce and John, and why Hawkgirl's betrayal continued to hurt, because once she had "accepted" that helping to bring justice to man's world wasn't just a one and done job, she began to see that the league truly were her new sister/s(and brothers) in her new isolated floating fortress in the sky and she would be able to rely on them to always help her see out that ideal goal, and when Hawkgirl, a women, the kind of person she had grew and known for being able to trust to the ends of the earth for the last how ever many thousands of years on her island home, when hawkgirl betrayed the league, she particularly betrayed Diana in her mind because of that context
I remembered watching the hawkgirl and Wonder Woman episode a few years ago, it was pretty cool for the two fibd common ground after hawk girl’s betrayal.
The relationship they have in the show becomes very ironic when you realise that in the comic Diana is probably the only JLA member Shayera actually likes
@@miiamidblu Yeah, post-crisis Shayera never joined the JL, she didn't really like them. Except Diana, she actually got along with her pretty well. Remember that scene where Diana critiques men and Shayera defends them? well their comic counterparts would just mock men together
Birdnose is the greatest character. I used to think her Romance Green Lantern what's the result of the two of them being amazing. However it's just her. I really want to see her in live-action, but I don't think I can do her any justice. Her character design is amazing the absolute best in the whole show
When I was younger, I leaned more to forgiving Hawkgirl and her betrayal of JL, but as I got older, I find myself leaning more toward Wonder Woman and her reaction. Being stabbed in the back is not something that should be forgiven. The show did a lot to redeem Hawkgirl, but Earth was very nearly destroyed- that is not something to let go lightly. I guess I'm just a meaner old man now, and while I like Hawkgirl and the JL stories, I would not have had her on my team.
I love Hawkgirl, I was very green to the Justice league outside of Batman the Animated Series and Static Shock, so when I finally sat down to watch I immediately loved her. Idk, I feel more like her then Diana I guess.
@@BrandonWhatTheF Even when she was engaged to another man? lmao All shit aside, Hawkgirl is very well written but I never liked her for the betrayals and abrasive personality. Wonder Woman at least has the excuse of being raised by Amazons. But I think my favorite girl was Black Canary or Vixen.
@@BlackWingedSeraphX I mean... come on... what she did was wrong yeah, but think about it. Her people... her own people sent her on that mission. You can't just toss that aside easily. That's everyone she knew and loved for the majority of her life. And she eventually did the right thing. She gave up all her connections with her own culture for the Earth, people she knew for like... maybe a year by that point? And have you seen the news? The Earth ain't really all that great. But she did it anyway. It took some time but she did it. Wonder Woman... she had her qualities, but being with her would inevitably lead to her constantly going on and on about how men are terrible and how I'm a terrible person simply because I'm a man... I think I'd rather get invaded by Hawkgirl's people to be honest.
I've been watching your videos for a while now Roughly around three years. For the last 3 videos, I've been trying to figure out the song. Something changing your mind by paper Twins. I was humming, and it was stuck in my head, so I had to figure out what the song was
I'm actually excited for the War World movie because that movie wasn't good. So I can't wait to hear your perspective and see what people say in the comments. Another great dissection of JLU episode. Thanks man.
ok i know we're talking about shiyira and diana but u mentioned the new flash so i need to mention, as a MASSIVE batman nerd i freaked out and as a new big flash fan I ALSO KEPT FREAKIN OUT- i havnt rewatched it to see if my hype clouded my judgement but as of the first viewing i loved it and had a lot of fun. i apologize to my discord for me screaming in all caps about the batcave
"You've actually met your gods and know for a fact that they exist. In fact you fight them occasionally." Hawkgirk said to Diana, a smirk curling at her lips. She continued, "In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence."
Just because you believe in X doesn't make X true. Nor does it make it false. One thing people need to accept in this world is that there is no such thing as certainly in this world. Is not a matter if, but when you will be wrong.
Diana didn’t hate her. She just felt betrayed for a while because Shayera’s action almost caused the earth to get destroyed. They did make up even if their relationship was never really the same afterwards.
I just started watching justice league unlimited. I held off for so long because I thought it was a kids show, boy was I wrong. The DCAU is the best dc universe out there, the stories are dark and complex and I’m surprised at all the sexual humor they put in it. I’m just sad they didn’t make more episodes of this.
It’s a shame Hollywood excs can’t get past their messages to create female characters as strong as these two. They are warriors, unapologetically female, and complex not riddled whiney brats with pen*s envy
what I find ironic was that since WW values loyalty, she forgot or refused to internalize the fact that Shayera had a duty of loyalty to her people first. I also believe that she genuinely was not aware of Hro Talak's end goal of destroying Earth, which is why I thought she decided to go against Hro at the end of everything. She could not see a world where she was accepted mostly by the JL be destroyed. At the end she betrayed not only the JL but her people as well. Let's not forget the 2 soldier right-hand villains to Hro died because of her later in JLU. Though I'm more lenient to Diana's reaction, but deep inside I know I have opposing conflicts such as Shayera does, which is why I'm most likely to end up acting as she did. We all make mistakes
i don't think wonder woman and hawkgirl hated each other i mean yes hawkgirl did betrayed the justice league and earth and has made some mistakes in the past and wonder woman was still very angry and held a grudge against hawkgirl but that doesn't mean they necessarily hated each and in the episode "the balance" they finally reconciled and put their dislikes for each other aside and yes maybe they may not be friends but their still great teammates and still have a lot of respect for each other and they can still get along in their way
I don’t think they were ever really friends beyond the “two chicks in a room full of dudes” scenario. Naturally they gravitate towards each other, but put Diana’s lack of real life experience and her inability to navigate the individual nuances of people, and you have someone who doesn’t naturally connect with people. If the league had more female members at first, would they ever truly be friends?
Justice League was an amazing piece of fiction. It did really well and the storylines were great! Very underrated show. And it didn't rely on Edgy gore like Invincible has to.
Think the jab at Invincible is unwarranted personally, they're different shows and stories going for different things. We can sing the praises of great classics like this without turning it into ire for new stuff. (I say new but invincible is also from the early 2000s lol)
@@MrDp115 It's overrated. There's no deep plot twist or character arc. It's a good show but people acted like it was the greatest. Take away the gore and it's mediocre.
I know its a serious moment, but Diana's unimpressed stare she gives Hawkgirl when she walks back into the conference room and quits the Justice League will always live rent free in my head. There is absolutely no question how she voted in that room.
I mean, she was still mad about her betrayal, Superman's deciding vote to keep Hawkgirl in Wasn't going to change that.
she is someone who absolutely doesn't tolerate betrayal and at the time the wound was still fresh and i honestly i don't blame her.
Diana values loyalty and trust between groups and family. Hawkgirl broke that and I assume Diana figures if she can betray us once, she can easily do it again.
Technically she didn't betray them as she was an enemy spy all along. She betrayed her people.
"But Felix Faust is dead!"
"Yeah, and he's pretty upset about it."
I LOLed 😂
I love it when I get a notification that someone liked this, reminding me of this awesome line all again and getting me to laugh again.
@@ShinySephiroth1you’re welcome
@gaara4667 sentiment still stands haha . Haven't been notified of this in a while.
Yknow ppl really dont seem to understand the kindness of people like diana. They give so many chances, they trust ppl so much, they believe that everyone possess real kindness and that ppl are genuinely good. However, once theyre crossed and once they feel betrayed, they wont just shrug it off and let it be.
I can always forgive but for as long as whoever betrayed me is still the same person as they were before, i wont hold back my words or punches.
She's basically a tougher Katara.
She's just a well written female character
What you are describing is Flash. He is the first to offer those chances to people. She did not
I can understand it, she bonded with Hawkgirl and to be betrayed by her and John saying she doesn't need to take criticism from people whose lives were hurt by her betrayal does give a reason for Diana to hate her.
They have a tense relationship but the pain is still there
Well like flash said 3:17
"Like Oil and Vinegar: We go together, but we don't mix."
Yo, my core belief structure is completely anithetical to yours, but the bonds we built are somehow stronger than that, so I'll always be around to tell you how wrong you are/kick the crap out of anyone who messes with you.
Diana doesn't "hate" Shayera, what she has is a grudge, a completely understandable one. Betrayal of that level should be punished, but at the same time... Diana left that grudge to fester, against a person that she does love very much, and that blinded her to what Shayera did and was doing to redeem herself.
This conflict was just... human, their hyperreality sometimes makes us forget that they are people, no matter how larger than life they seem... some things simply don't change being a person.
What WAS she doing to mend bridges, really? I never saw Shayera apologize for what she did.
@@Ares99999i dot. Think simply apologizing would help betraying your friends and a planet
love that, well aaid
What’s even sadder is that Wonder Woman made her debut in the cartoon series by saving Hawkgirl from an alien attack. 😢
It isn't something that I appreciated when I was younger, but looking back I really do appreciate how they handled this whole entire character arc. I find that most shows, when doing betrayal plots or just making characters hate each other, tend to do it for some really flimsy reasonings that might make someone realistically upset but not enough for what proceeds to happen afterwards and on the flipside of that spectrum you sometimes have characters fall out and then rekindle not even an episode later sometimes as if nothing happens. I like how with HG, you could feel the lasting effects of her betrayal for a good part of the season before things begin going back to normal and even afterwards you can feel that things still aren't the same between her and the rest of the league. It both shows that earning forgiveness is a lengthy process and that sometimes it may never completely come, but she still tries anyway and I think that's pretty inspiring.
Shiara is competent, strong and smart. With no magic to use as a crutch. Let's not forget her extremely adept ability to adapt to the culture and language she infiltrated. She uses idioms, understands cultural references. She's awesome.
But she did nearly allow Earth to be destroyed, and betrayed the JL's trust in her.
This is like saying hitlers cool cause he painted lol
I don't think that Wonder Woman actually hates Hawkgirl in the DCAU. Diana was definitely angry with her for her betrayal, held a grudge, and they will never be the same friends that they were before the betrayal, but at least they are able to tolerate each other after the balance episode.
Everyone wake the hell up, Trauma man has uploaded another essay.
I just love flash’s face when he sits the both of them down 😂
I liked how their characters were handled post starcrossed. I think a reason why the betrayal impacted Diana more than the rest was because she was the first of the league to vouch for the thanagarians, while the rest were hesitant at first.
Overall, I can’t express enough how awesome of a job this show did at making the female heroes competent and compelling, without shoving it in your face or blatantly filling an agenda.
I don't usually comment on videos because I'm lazy and don't think anyone really cares about my opinion, But I just wanted to say I love your essays so much - the production value is crazy good, And there's definitely not enough people taking American cartoons as seriously as your videos do and exploring the deeper themes that some of them have. Particularly with Justice League content that is a untapped gold mine of emotional resonance. Untapped until you came around of course
yuck. who likes thing on the Internet. :)
Nah, I care bout your opinion bro!
I too care about your opinion.
You’re right no one else is making videos about these cartoons and these video essays are just showing how much thought and unappreciated greatness has gone into these cartoons
I love her friendship with her and Vixen
You don't need to be friends with someone in order to respect them. Sometimes, we need someone to oppose us so we can see more of ourselves, and traits in others that we can learn from to be better.
The truth is... You don't have to like someone to learn from them. In this world that couldn't be more true. 😇
That little "... ma'am" tho 😂
But back to the actual content: the whole reason the animosity exists is because of how much they love each other. Shaira's betrayel flipped the "fuck you" switch in Diana, and Shaira's own stubborn attitude and hurt feelings meant it was reciprocated.
Side note: always loved DCAU's Wonder Woman being the daughter of Hades. Such a fun twist
God I miss the DCAU, imo it was the best prolonged work they’ve produced and was at a consistently high level. Also helps that Kevin Conroy delivered an incredible Batman.
I really want justice league back. I didn't watch it as a child and it's a shame honestly. There was so much more they could've done with the show and I feel like all that untapped potential would be really appreciated today as a new show
Not really it had a great ending let lay and hbo max is where you can find it
I'd say as tempting as it is to wish for this series to return... the latest DCAU additions while not bad are nowhere near as fulfilling and it'd be better for everyone to move onto new things both the audience and the people who made the shows.
That and with the passing of Kevin Conroy such an idea of continuing it on for many fans would seem especially odd now.
It had a good ending, most shows can't even get a finale as conclusive as JLU did so I prefer to let it rest and not end up like The CW Flash, bloated and increasingly worse after it's peak.
Uh huh, then you'll get a "Teen Titans" -> "Teen Titans Go" situation. How about no, dawg.
@@electricfeverx976 yea I agree it had a good ending but leading up to said ending they could've added so much more lore or higher power DC stuff like how they did with the ending.
I would've also loved much fewer filler episodes or at least have more of the filler be stuff like booster golds episode.
What people don’t realize is Diana automatically values women 10x more then men it’s just reality so weather it’s showcased or not Diana values shyeras friendship ALOT so when she betrayed her it hit 10 x harder cause. Ww is used to place where “sisters” never betray one another so that’s why she held a grudge but if u notice other then green lantern only cause there dating ww and hawkgirls relashionship is the only one they explored after the fact of her betrayal and I think that says something
You know this got me of an idea for a new Injustice league where it would take place after Lex gets the pardon and Grodd goes to jail after the Secret Society episode this version of the Injustice league female members are the Golden Glider (Lisa Snart) and the Silver Swan (Helen Alexandros) where they would be more sister than Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl would ever be because not only would Golden Glider not only hate the Flash for causing the Top’s death she probably would put Diana as the second person she would hate the most because she grew up in a abusive household where a father who was a drunk cop who would beat her and her brother (Captain Cold) up, had to work for everything and lose the man who she wanted to spend the rest of her life with, while Diana claim that she relates to that and say that the Top was abusive and manipulative to her but he wasn’t it was a genuine love not like Joker and Harley Quinn, so she called her out on that where she never went through that and she never grew up with a dad and not really tragic as she claims it is as she lived on an island full of paranoid women and believe that Women are victims of Circumstances because both Glider and Swan chose those lives no one pulling their strings and as for the Silver Swan she wants Wonder Woman dead because Ares promised her that her transformation will be permanent.
Alfed is a man of wisdom he know what to say to make you feel better 😌 🙏 🙌 ☺️
"The Balance" has always been one of my favorite JLU episodes along side the finale, the episode five of the og seven get turned into kids, the beginning JLU episode where Green Arrow joins the JL, and the episode where Green Arrow, Green Lantern ans Supergirl trave to the future to help the remaining members Legion of Superheroes, Braniac-5 and Bouncing Boy! 😊
I'd like to see you cover the lessons and stories surrounding the three Morgan Le Fey episodes, since that covers several characters like J'onn J'onzz, Etrigan/Jason Blood, and Mordred
Justice Lord Hawk Girl's comment to Superman about the world not being ready for him to take out Luthor, not ready for their strong arm invasion makes greater sense in this context.
Hawkgirl is a legit Amazon persona so Diana sees her like one of her sisters and the big shock is that she isn't: She obeyed the male leaders of Thanagar over her JLA sister.
This is my favorite iteration of Diana yet.
It's been a rough decade or so for DC fans. To the point where I'd genuinely started to forget why I leaned more DC than Marvel.
So thank you for the constant reminders of why I fell in love with these characters in the first place.
Oh god, tell me about it!
I have to explain to people that i love(ed) DC more because of the realistic complexity of everything in its universe. What they're doing since Rebirth is just awful.
Not hating on alfred, but wasn’t he a former badass soldier? He’s still a badass, just not a soldier
I thought he was a special agent. Maybe that's not technically a soldier?
I'm not sure precisely when the change was made for Alfred to be ex-military, but I /think/ that it was after the Justice League cartoon was made. Maybe it was a New 52 change? If anyone can prove me wrong, then by all means, I'd love to know
@@Golden_Raijin Yes but no. Pre-Crisis Alfred, ex-spy. Post-Crisis, no. Post-Infinite Crisis, spy.
@@Golden_Raijin he's former sas. and that's canon to the DCAU because Red Claw wanted him for secret info he held because of it.
@@Genevieve1023 ... you require military training to be an agent.
Every video u make it, it makes me so emotional. You’re so perceptive in your interpretations of these characters and themes and when the music swells at the end it feels like I went on an emotional journey
did you ever do videos about Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes? That's one of my favorite super hero things outside of DC that I've watched multiple times
I understood both women.
While I feel Diana has her reasons for holding onto her distrust and her grudge against Hawkgirl because of Hawkgirl proving she wasn't throwing in her lot with the league and proving her loyalty with them, she is still that naive warrior princess in that she doesn't consider the fact that while yes, while she cares about loyalty above all else, and Hawkgirl also values that kind of loyalty, Diana never considered that Hawkgirl's loyalty was first to her people, not to a bunch of people she only met like a year ago
As for the rest of her anger issues throughout the show, she had never had a taste for how the grain of life ran outside of themyscira, while she got that world ending threats were a once every so often kind of thing, she never got that things just below that that most heroes deal with on the daily happen well, on the daily. For the longest time she felt distant because she didn't want to get attached to anything, but then she saw that if she continues to pursue the ideal of seeing justice be done, she might well be here for god knows how long, and that ticked her off that helping to continue seeing justice be done in the world outside of her tiny little island wasn't ever going to have just one easy fix. That's why she was particularly angry in that opening of the episode where she was like, "I just wanted one day off where I could pretend that the ideal goal I so greatly want to see accomplished could actually happen without me being there to keep it going" and that's also why in that same vein of anger, therein lies her reason why she started to get truly attached to the league and some of it's members in particular, namely Bruce and John, and why Hawkgirl's betrayal continued to hurt, because once she had "accepted" that helping to bring justice to man's world wasn't just a one and done job, she began to see that the league truly were her new sister/s(and brothers) in her new isolated floating fortress in the sky and she would be able to rely on them to always help her see out that ideal goal, and when Hawkgirl, a women, the kind of person she had grew and known for being able to trust to the ends of the earth for the last how ever many thousands of years on her island home, when hawkgirl betrayed the league, she particularly betrayed Diana in her mind because of that context
Thank you for making some of the best and most consistently entertaining videos of any channel i follow.
I remembered watching the hawkgirl and Wonder Woman episode a few years ago, it was pretty cool for the two fibd common ground after hawk girl’s betrayal.
Why do your video's fill me with the same feelings that Bojack Horseman gave me😂
You never disappoint. Another great video from one of the best series ever!
man you're my hero thanks for uploading! + I'm really looking forward the sole young justice characters essay. hope you didn't forget about that :)
Hawkgirl is my fave heroine besides Black Canary.
I dig the Hawkgirl videos. 😍
I keep being reminded that this amazing show ended
:(
The relationship they have in the show becomes very ironic when you realise that in the comic Diana is probably the only JLA member Shayera actually likes
what??? Imma need you to elaborate on that one dude lol
@@miiamidblu
Yeah, post-crisis Shayera never joined the JL, she didn't really like them. Except Diana, she actually got along with her pretty well.
Remember that scene where Diana critiques men and Shayera defends them? well their comic counterparts would just mock men together
@@shaggyrogers6769Seems like a shitter version of the character.
@@shaggyrogers6769why did she not like them
Birdnose is the greatest character. I used to think her Romance Green Lantern what's the result of the two of them being amazing. However it's just her. I really want to see her in live-action, but I don't think I can do her any justice. Her character design is amazing the absolute best in the whole show
This is my favorite episode of the series.
Their dynamic is great
Love watching you!
I'm so looking forward to the Green Arrow video
Love your videos!! Thank you so much.
When I was younger, I leaned more to forgiving Hawkgirl and her betrayal of JL, but as I got older, I find myself leaning more toward Wonder Woman and her reaction. Being stabbed in the back is not something that should be forgiven. The show did a lot to redeem Hawkgirl, but Earth was very nearly destroyed- that is not something to let go lightly. I guess I'm just a meaner old man now, and while I like Hawkgirl and the JL stories, I would not have had her on my team.
The writers of Justice League/JLU took such a nobody from the comics and made her one of the best 3 dimension characters ever
I love Hawkgirl, I was very green to the Justice league outside of Batman the Animated Series and Static Shock, so when I finally sat down to watch I immediately loved her. Idk, I feel more like her then Diana I guess.
"DCAU Wonder Woman hates Hawkgirl."
Leo, that's like announcing "Gravity works!" 😉lol
love the mystery song of the day!! also love the video
Celebration that I didn't know was in me made me a better person!🏃
1:59 oh Alfred!
Alfred: "I'm no soldier"
That is erasure, Alfred is a war veteran you fuckers.
Great video as always my guy
How dare Wonder Woman treat best girl like that!
To be fair, Hawkgirl did betrayed the Justice League
@@devinsauls9137 still best girl. If I was John Stewart, I'd betray the league WITH her lmao
@@BrandonWhatTheFshe is a red head but she still made a mistake but just forgive her which she does
@@BrandonWhatTheF Even when she was engaged to another man? lmao All shit aside, Hawkgirl is very well written but I never liked her for the betrayals and abrasive personality. Wonder Woman at least has the excuse of being raised by Amazons. But I think my favorite girl was Black Canary or Vixen.
@@BlackWingedSeraphX I mean... come on... what she did was wrong yeah, but think about it. Her people... her own people sent her on that mission. You can't just toss that aside easily. That's everyone she knew and loved for the majority of her life. And she eventually did the right thing. She gave up all her connections with her own culture for the Earth, people she knew for like... maybe a year by that point? And have you seen the news? The Earth ain't really all that great. But she did it anyway. It took some time but she did it. Wonder Woman... she had her qualities, but being with her would inevitably lead to her constantly going on and on about how men are terrible and how I'm a terrible person simply because I'm a man... I think I'd rather get invaded by Hawkgirl's people to be honest.
Great video. Looking forward to your future works!
I need to watch or rewatch this one
I've been watching your videos for a while now Roughly around three years. For the last 3 videos, I've been trying to figure out the song. Something changing your mind by paper Twins. I was humming, and it was stuck in my head, so I had to figure out what the song was
I'm actually excited for the War World movie because that movie wasn't good. So I can't wait to hear your perspective and see what people say in the comments. Another great dissection of JLU episode. Thanks man.
ok i know we're talking about shiyira and diana but u mentioned the new flash so i need to mention, as a MASSIVE batman nerd i freaked out and as a new big flash fan I ALSO KEPT FREAKIN OUT- i havnt rewatched it to see if my hype clouded my judgement but as of the first viewing i loved it and had a lot of fun. i apologize to my discord for me screaming in all caps about the batcave
The DCAU's Betty & Veronica.
"You've actually met your gods and know for a fact that they exist. In fact you fight them occasionally." Hawkgirk said to Diana, a smirk curling at her lips. She continued, "In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence."
I literally just watched this episode a few minutes ago.
I just had dinner with two beautiful women at the same time - cuz I’m a stud
Just because you believe in X doesn't make X true. Nor does it make it false.
One thing people need to accept in this world is that there is no such thing as certainly in this world. Is not a matter if, but when you will be wrong.
love the vids man
Diana didn’t hate her. She just felt betrayed for a while because Shayera’s action almost caused the earth to get destroyed. They did make up even if their relationship was never really the same afterwards.
I like Wonder Woman more but hawkgirl is a complicated character too. Dianas costume is so sexy.
I have faith, that one day you will make a video essay on Mr.Robot
I'd love to see something about the relationship between hawkgirl and solomon geundy
I just started watching justice league unlimited. I held off for so long because I thought it was a kids show, boy was I wrong. The DCAU is the best dc universe out there, the stories are dark and complex and I’m surprised at all the sexual humor they put in it. I’m just sad they didn’t make more episodes of this.
Loved seeing Amazons show super strength throw enormous boulders at Hawkgirl
*looks at the title* more news at 11
It’s a shame Hollywood excs can’t get past their messages to create female characters as strong as these two. They are warriors, unapologetically female, and complex not riddled whiney brats with pen*s envy
Especially since the opportunity to do so is RIGHT THERE. I mean Diana is literally from an all female island that have denounced men.
what I find ironic was that since WW values loyalty, she forgot or refused to internalize the fact that Shayera had a duty of loyalty to her people first. I also believe that she genuinely was not aware of Hro Talak's end goal of destroying Earth, which is why I thought she decided to go against Hro at the end of everything. She could not see a world where she was accepted mostly by the JL be destroyed. At the end she betrayed not only the JL but her people as well. Let's not forget the 2 soldier right-hand villains to Hro died because of her later in JLU. Though I'm more lenient to Diana's reaction, but deep inside I know I have opposing conflicts such as Shayera does, which is why I'm most likely to end up acting as she did. We all make mistakes
How are you uploading these so quickly?
And I remember when people could watch a simple cartoon without having to disect over over think what they were watching still a great show
My take away is (Multiculturalism: The differences between and our reaction to can breed respect or ignorance.)
I NEED THE MUSIC PLAYLIST MAN
the outro is" Something that was changing your mind", by Paper Twins
What about us?
Is it enough?
No, it is not a paradise.
Mystery song of the day. Is I'm just Ken by Ryan gosling
Hawkgirl best girl.
Okay, but I seriously need to know the name of the song you use in the opening and in the credits of all your videos.
i don't think wonder woman and hawkgirl hated each other i mean yes hawkgirl did betrayed the justice league and earth and has made some mistakes in the past and wonder woman was still very angry and held a grudge against hawkgirl but that doesn't mean they necessarily hated each and in the episode "the balance" they finally reconciled and put their dislikes for each other aside and yes maybe they may not be friends but their still great teammates and still have a lot of respect for each other and they can still get along in their way
I don’t think they were ever really friends beyond the “two chicks in a room full of dudes” scenario. Naturally they gravitate towards each other, but put Diana’s lack of real life experience and her inability to navigate the individual nuances of people, and you have someone who doesn’t naturally connect with people. If the league had more female members at first, would they ever truly be friends?
Please, you glow😂
can you do a video braking down what it green lantern when jon took off hawlk girls mask
Hate how the movies changed her father.
Can you make a video about Darkseid please?
does anyone know about the name of outro song pls..
I’m actually shocked that anyone could forgive Hawkgirl after the shit she pulled. Right?? I mean cmon, she literally tried to take over our world lol
❤💛
i figured it out, its based on Justice League Unlimited.
Every character in the DCAU grew and became better by the seasons but Hawkgirl did the exact opposite
what is the outdo song?
Comparing Diana to Hawkgirl is a pure disrespect to Diana.
Pointing out the Bechdel test has become a bit of a meme, but I will say I love well founded female conflict in my media.
Analytics
Justice League was an amazing piece of fiction. It did really well and the storylines were great! Very underrated show. And it didn't rely on Edgy gore like Invincible has to.
Think the jab at Invincible is unwarranted personally, they're different shows and stories going for different things.
We can sing the praises of great classics like this without turning it into ire for new stuff. (I say new but invincible is also from the early 2000s lol)
@@Shift_Salt Take away the gore and Invincible is really vanilla. Sorry but it's the truth. It's entertaining but it relies on that a lot.
@@BlackWingedSeraphXTake away the gore and its an interesting and refreshing show.
@@MrDp115 It's overrated. There's no deep plot twist or character arc. It's a good show but people acted like it was the greatest. Take away the gore and it's mediocre.