The scene where she had to put Grundy out of his misery made me feel bad for her, worsened by the fact that the public immediately shun her and express their {albeit justified} hatred of her.
Same here, one of the biggest aspects of the situation is that a 'hero' was asked to kill! That's something I still find inconceivable as most media have always had that no kill policy as the line a hero doesn't cross.
@@Inrezairo Grundy can't really permanently die. It's sort of his thing. I imagine it's seen more as temporarily giving him rest rather than permanently killing him and ending his existence.
I appreciate that, despite this romantic pairing between Jon and Hawkgirl being such a “sure thing” both in the meta sense and in the in-universe cosmic destiny sense, Jon commits to being faithful to Vixen and seeing that relationship through. Even though we never got to see a lot of Vixen and as such doesn’t stand out as much as a character (to me, anyway), it solidifies Jon as a genuinely moral character; not just in the generic superhero way, but in the ways that matter (his responsibilities and commitments as an individual to individuals).
I'm desperate for more John Stewart. He is MY Green Lantern and I think a lot of people my age feel the same. They really should have included him instead of cyborg in the SnyderVerse I think
Well to be fair, in an expanded Batman beyond comic, John and Hawkgirl got together anyway after Vixen was killed by Shadow Theif, so it seems everything course corrected on its own
One thing I wish they touched on was acknowledging the fact the Thanagarians LIED (by ommission) to Hawkgirl. She genuinely thought she was protecting earth in a backwards kind of way and her feelings began to rapidly change when she realized she was not only working under false pretense, but her fiance also didn't even try to confess it until it was too late. She realized her own people didn't trust her from the outset, let alone the man she was engaged to, and still, despite the favt she could have plead ignorance and explained how they lied she still took the punishment and maintained at least some sense honor for her people and self by not shifting blame. None of them deserved her. She was fantastic
From the League's perspective, it's just as believable that she just had a last minute change of heart, rather than that she was acting out of ignorance of the Thanagarians' true intentions this whole time. They can't take her at her word anymore.
thank you for dedicating a whole video to Hawkgirl, she was my absolute favorite due to how the writers were able to make Shayera more relatable and connected to things we go through as people
Hawkgirl is my favorite character in the entirety of DC, all because of the Justice League cartoons. It was my first introduction to comic heroes, and I felt an instant love for the bad cop gal with wings. I can still quote many of her lines, and rewatch "Wake the Dead" a lot. It probably the episode I go back to the most as her relationship with the reanimated Grundy is really beautiful. Her choice to kill him is so sad, but understandable when thinking of his first death. She's an amazing character is this series, and it's the portrayal I will hold up forever.
@@joeljohnson1000 I mean, we don’t really know that. After all, timelines are a thing DC plays with all the time. That’s not THE future, that’s A future. And we know that because Terry dies in that story, yet we later see him in another episode much later down the line. Different timelines
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 Terry dies post Chronos, Warhawk was around long before Chronos ever got to the future, and I feel like we see him in the Epilogue flash forward
Supes, Wally, & Jon voting for her made sense but was shocked that WW voted against her. She comes from warrior people, she should’ve understood the responsibility of a soldier. This made the vote against HG that much impactful, she was that hurt & angry
Diana values loyalty more than much else. A traitor is the worst thing you could be in a society like the Amazons'. It makes perfect sense that she voted against her. Personally I figure the for votes should have been Jon, Batman, and Wally. Batman is the type to have allies whose relationship with him has complicated dynamics when it comes to trust and his dealings have always been a little bit shady. Superman holds a grudge, it's kind of his thing, he never forgave Hamilton for betraying Kara, he goes into a blinding rage if you mention Darkseid, I'm surprised he voted for her.
@@Zarastro54 True but she too comes from warrior people & had they asked her to be a spy she would’ve done the same. She still would’ve voted the way she did, but always thought she’d understand & relate a bit instead holding hate in JL:U
I read my brother's comics when I was a kid, and was excited to see the cartoon every Saturday morning. They really did my boy Hawkman dirty in all three interpretations of him with the past Egyptian version with her thirsty ass betraying him as he was more concerned with work, the Archeologist version with making him a creepy stalker, and the Thanagarian version making him the supervillain.
Well, I can see why a lot of people think Hawgirl f*cked Hro over by cheating on him with John, but there's still a LOT of things that we as viewers either don't know or don't take into consideration. 1) There’s a possibility that Shey’ara thought Hro was dead and could’ve been reporting that data she collected to someone else. 2) Shey’ara was supposed to have reported to Hro, but he got captured and she was reporting to someone else in his stead. 3) Hro KNEW that Shey’ara had made a life for herself on Earth and still decided to use the “he’s an alien, he wouldn’t understand Earth’s customs” to his advantage and kissed her in front of John. 4) Both his knowledge and insecurity came to a head when he called what Shey’ara and John had a: “meaningless flirtation”. 5) Hro took Shey’ara away from her friends so she wouldn’t have a chance to explain herself and immediately started to love bomb her by surrounding herself with things that reminded her of Thangar and of the time they spent together while on leave. 6) Despite Shey’ara’s hesitant body language and very flat tone of voice he still tried to make a move. 7) When Hro's assistant advised that Shey'ara be psychologically assessed Hro told him to mind his business simply because "Shey'ara's love for me is more powerful than the memories she's made here on Earth despite the fact that we haven't seen each other in 5 YEARS" Hro is egotistical, insecure and manipulative. He’s let his feelings for Shey’ara get in the way of his priorities for the entire episode. Hro knew that his time with Shey’ara was over and he was trying his damndest to rekindle whatever feelings he thought she had left for him. I believe that Hro was “street trash” that was taken in and forged into the perfect warrior before he was chosen to be a commander, OR he was a spoiled rich boy who came from a military family and was used to getting what he wants. And seeing as the handling of a love rival during a courting ritual on Thanagar is violent in nature I wouldn’t be surprised if Hro off’ed a plentiful supply of other Thanagarian officers he deemed as love rivals just so he could keep Shay’ara to himself. That point can be proved by just seeing how he handled his fight with John. I also believe that Hro and Shey'ara only got together as a business arrangement not commitment made out of love, simply due to how distant she acted when arrived and how she was more than willing to allow herself to fall in love with someone else despite being engaged. I mean, think about it, if the Thanagarians have to invade a planet in order to insure the safety of the little remaining numbers they have left. I wouldn't be surprised if the commanding officers or anyone who ranks high in the Thanagarian hierarchy weren't married off as soon as possible to guarantee both royal and military numbers.
So fun thing on the jl comic for the show. If I remember correctly, either shadow Master or the shadow thing from the Carter episode. Ends up killing vixen and John kill him which is how he loses his green lantern ring and ends up with Hawkgirl in the end
I used to love Hawkgirl so much, even as a kid. I never understood why i loved her & green lantern’s storyline. But now that I’m older it makes so much sense. I find myself in GL’s position currently. You know the feeling that you and someone are supposed to be together, it’s mutual and you know you’ll end up together. But the timing and circumstances aren’t aligned and never seem to, but will eventually. You find yourself with someone else and seeing where that goes, and being loyal to the person because they deserve that too. Life is crazy
@@JDog2656terrible comic. Why did Vixen have to die in order for the two of them to get back together? They literally kiss while standing on Vixen’s grave
i'd like to mention that in Vigilante is played by Nathan Fillion and Vixen is played by Gina Torres. (costars from Firefly) Both go by Vig or Vix. and i just think that's kind of neat. Also, Fillion is playing a cowboy who lives in space. again.
I love this channel man! Every video is like a HIMYM episode. the music, the vibe, the storytelling, everything. You deserve more people watching your content dude!
Your use of "Where We Wanna Go" for the credits on this video hit so HARD. Got a little teary eyed. Great video essay. I always felt so bad for Hawkgirl, because of her entangled feelings about everything. Destiny, duty, love, and being to let go - which eventually led to even more tragedy. OOOOoof.
Fantastic,i love seeing people talk about DCAU .IMO Sahira was the best female character in this animated universe,her journey is just really well written.
When I first saw Starcrossed, I knew how Superman would vote based on his experience being brainwashed by Granny Goodness by order of Darkseid. And I love that call back to Legacy. The detail in the call backs to other DCAU events was just brilliant. And after Legacy, only Lois believed in him. Made the STAS beautifully bittersweet and became something he would become obsessed to up to the end of Divided We Fall.
I disagree with the characterization of hawkgirl's choice during the season 2 finale being one of 'feelings vs duty'. yes, she had a duty to her people. and yes she had feelings for john. but she also had a duty to the league, and the people of earth. these were close friends and allies that she'd fought along side with for years by this point. people that had put their trust in her and had saved her life on several occasions. likewise, hawkgirl also had feelings for her fiancé. I mean, he was her fiancé, that's not exactly something you do on a dare. in other words, hawkgirl's dilema during the Thanagarian invasion was incredibly symmetrical. in a way, this made her the closest thing to a neutral party on the subject, ironically enough. no matter what she chose to do, she'd lose a lover and a people. no matter her choice, she'd be the worst sort of betrayer imaginable to one side or the other. ultimately, she sided with earth. while this was a fairly complex decision, _much_ of it could be attributed to the fact that the thanagarian's were the aggressors in the conflict. that is to say, hawkgirl likely made her decision along moral lines. while her feelings likely played a role as well, it seems to me that they were secondary, or even tertiary considerations.
she betrayed them to protect them. if her peoples enemy was showing up then her people were the best to defend agaisnt it. when she learned of the plan she opposed it.
I hate hawkman. Anyway, I always loved hawkgirl, she was the black sheep, not quite fitting in. I relate to her. I also lowkey love the friendship between Batman and Hawkgirl, they never really liked each other, but when justice league unlimited came around, Batman and Hawkgirl had developed a silent respect. I think Batman learned to respect her when she left, and also probably because Alfred had a conversation with him lol. It showed when Hawkman was introduced, Batman really pulled up with his pile of documents and receipts and went "bish get out of there, he wack af". It was a pleasant surprise to see Batman cares in his wierd, awkward, stunted, emotionally repressed, Batman way. Hawkgirl was so compelling to me as a kid, even though I didn't really know why. She's found a family with people who she wouldn't normally fit in. She's always making the hard decisions and stuck in the worst spots. She trys to make the best out of it, even when she's shunned. Hawkgirl is strong, but she still struggles. I like that. What I don't like is Hawkman. I loathe Hawkman. With every fiber of my being. If he was real, I would tear his stalker ass apart. Slowly, I would kill him slowly. I have very strong feelings towards Hawkman.
If you read the Justice League Beyond comic book and how Vixen is killed by Shadow Thief and that’s the catalyst for John and Hawgirl reconnecting is really interesting to read
we always needs to talk more about shayera hol!!! let’s do shayera and mari!! the way they are friends dispute loving the same man like the complexities of it is so good !!!
Once Hawkgirl rejoined the JL, she seemed alright being friends with Vixen and John right up until she found out about her son. The way she asked Batman to tell her about Rex, she seemed uneasy and kind of sad.
I find a lot of similarities between Hawkgirl and Batman's contingency plan story. From exploiting the weakness of the league and spying on them. Eventually, in the end, they have a vote on whether she could stay or not, and she decides to resign herself. I find the story much better explored as compared to Batman, In a lot of variations Batman just gets invited back with a welcoming hand afterward due to his popularity. Hawkgirl actually faces the consequences direly instead, where it is clear the relationship has been damaged.
I love Hawkgirl as a character in the series. I think I love her a bit more than Wonderwoman. I just wish she was a little more powerful, close to WW and less vulnerable and beaten up in the series. Like adding metal claws and wing armor.
I discovered your channel a couple days ago. Gotta say, I love your reviews of the Justice League show so far. It may be old, but it was a fantastic series. Also, love your intros and outros. Honestly my favorite out of any other youtuber. Great work.
Alright everyone if you could give Hawkgirl another superpower what would it be? I would give her wind and lightning powers where she could control the wind and used air based attacks and even shoot wind annd lightning out of her hands.
It always bugged me that we never got the same romance with hawkgirl and John Stewart in the comics. hawkgirl has better chemistry with John Stewart then she does with hawkman. Instead DC keeps her paired up with hawkman who's feelings toward feels like a creepy cross between a romance and obsession. We can have Harely and Poison ivy be a thing but we can't have hawkgirl and green lantern be a thing.
It's because Comic John was already married to Katma Tui. Just because John and Hawkgirl had a romance in this show, doesn't mean it has to be applied in the comics. Even though she was killed by Star Sapphire. Katma was brought back as a Black Lantern, but was killed once again, after her death; John still misses her dearly. He's dated other characters, Fatality, Rose, Vixen, and Merayn Dethalis.
Ok, watch it again why not! I remember you really got me on my emotions the first time dude. still not making a WW vid? hope you still got some stuff on the DCAU
What these corporations who are copyright claiming fail to realize is that by you making these videos entices us to rewatch their shows, therefore getting us interested in them again. It’s free advertisement for them.
ok so reincarnation is a thing for Thanagarians. But John's a human, which has a lot of unrealized existential implications for the rest of everything.
In “Epilogue”, when Amanda Waller presents the device that would kill Ace before she hits critical mass, Shayera immediately reaches for it. Because Hawkgirl is able to put her feelings aside if she has to kill someone, as she demonstrated with Solomon Grundy. However, Batman takes the device, even though he chooses to comfort Ace so her death doesn’t result in a psychic meltdown that kill everybody in range. As Batman is compassionate, he knows Ace is a victim, not a villain, and he is not letting anybody kill a child, even if that child was dying and couldn’t be saved.
The first time I saw that episode with the guy telling her about reincarnation and all that, I thought he was just deluded and that that was the angle they were going for. His character, his delivery, it all felt like that Zeus guy from Batman. It was only later I'd find out that that was the legitimate backstory of Hawkman and Hawkgirl, that they were destined to find each other and die over and over through cycles of reincarnation including on the alien world that first sent Nth metal to ancient Egypt. It's a good story that makes the Hawks interesting, but it's one of the big missteps of the Justice League cartoon.
I think the fact that she realized what she did was wrong, and to have ultimately chose Earth is a good reason for her her to be allowed back into the Justice League alone. The strength that would have required is huge, and I am willing to bet that in a similar situation, very few of the other members would be able to make that choice.
I think something no one talks about near enough is how hawkman shows up every time they reincarnate to gaslight her into being with him, even when shes clearly in love with someone thats better for her. Hes extremely manipulative
That Egyptian reincarnation episode was probably one of the most unnecessary episodes of JLU, besides the weird cuckhold plot, introducing Warhawk makes the theme redundant.
10:40 also, I should’ve known she wasn’t dismissed from the JL. Deal is that Supes knows what it’s like to be framed on a global scale. If you’ve seen the 2-parter episode of Superman TAS where Clark was brainwashed by Darkseid and was used as a weapon against earth so that they can turn against him, you should know why Superman made the decision. Took some huge balls of real steel to make that decision and proud of the league to give Shaerya that choice to stay
I enjoy your videos. I’m sitting on a bench in Japan watching this, and thanks to you, I had an epiphany. Completely unrelated to the video, but your work triggered it nonetheless. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks. ✨💎✨
Funny story: I missed JL when it first aired on TV. I was a tad too young, but I watched JLU as it aired. I loved Hawkgirl. She was probably my favorite character, but I didn't understand why everyone else in the show hated her/had so much friction with her. Then I went back and watched JL and its finale Starcrossed and now I hate her too (well, I love to hate her).
I loved how the Thanagarians believed in a god that demanded that lives should always be sacrificed for the "Greater Good" and they're grand strategy revolved around that axiom. But when HG faces that ugly past she learned that you always have to find a better way. And when Carter Hall talks to her about their past lives she can't just let any kind of past define who she is. This show is just keeps growing the more I think about it.
Considering the fact that everyone in the Vegan Star System (The Star System that both she and Starfire AND the Gordanians are from) believe in X'Hal (supposedly) and do all things through her. Yeah, it is pretty cool.
to be fair the confirmation of john as war hawks dad is in a messed up timeline. So it is likley warhawks father in the true cannon is hawkman. I mean he has a much lighter skin tone in batman beyond.
It’s possible for a dark skinned man to father a lighter skinned child. EDIT - Not to mention Hawkgirl has the appearance of a ginger haired and green eyed white woman so why wouldn’t Rex be lighter skinned?
I will always prefer the original Justice League than JL Unlimited. Sure, it had great episodes and in fact it turned out way better than I expected, given the insane amount of characters displayed. But there is one thing I really didn't, don't and won't like in JLU ever: its upbeat ending music that didn't fit with anything. And the moment I really hated it was when in 7:30 that loud music completely destroyed the moment.
Honestly I always felt like Hawk Girl was a black sheep. I never really liked her much, she seems to flip flop to much as a person that she never seemed to be stable and consistent.
4:07 if I had a nickel for every Destiny actor that voiced someone in JLU, I’d have at least 2 nickels. One for Vigilante (Nathan Fillion/ Cayde-6) and one for Dr. Fate (Oded Fehr/ Osiris), potentially even more.
I swear hawk girl and martian man hunter are those 2 heros you never see outside of the justice league.
two of the best written characters in animated cartoon history
Don't forget Cyborg man.
@@thedaystar1415 Did you forget the Teen Titans ?
@@dyamso9659 alright how about red tornado
@@thedaystar1415 batman brave and the bold
As sweet and powerful as Alfred's words to Hawkgirl are, we must also recognize that he complimented his own tea within that sentence.
Batman enjoys he damn well should be pridefull of that
I don't care.
@@musical_lolu4811 congrats you won the prize of not careing!!
Cause he’s the goddamn Alfred! 😅
Her life is so miserable that you had to re-upload the video. She just can't catch a break, even here.
Twice
Thank you for confirming this,I thought I was having a stuck in the matrix moment
Thanagar copyright striked the video
this should be a pinned comment
What are the differences between this reloaded version & the original?
She has one most tragic double agent arcs ever written
I wish they would bring her back!
The scene where she had to put Grundy out of his misery made me feel bad for her, worsened by the fact that the public immediately shun her and express their {albeit justified} hatred of her.
What’s piano music being played at Grundy’s first death?
Same here, one of the biggest aspects of the situation is that a 'hero' was asked to kill! That's something I still find inconceivable as most media have always had that no kill policy as the line a hero doesn't cross.
@@Inrezairo Grundy can't really permanently die. It's sort of his thing. I imagine it's seen more as temporarily giving him rest rather than permanently killing him and ending his existence.
850th liker here
Yeah it was so bad
I appreciate that, despite this romantic pairing between Jon and Hawkgirl being such a “sure thing” both in the meta sense and in the in-universe cosmic destiny sense, Jon commits to being faithful to Vixen and seeing that relationship through. Even though we never got to see a lot of Vixen and as such doesn’t stand out as much as a character (to me, anyway), it solidifies Jon as a genuinely moral character; not just in the generic superhero way, but in the ways that matter (his responsibilities and commitments as an individual to individuals).
Couldn't agree more. It's hard to put any other super hero series above justice league. The characters are just so good.
@@coletrain41 Facts.
My favorite are Barry Allen and Clark Kent.
Absolute Chads of men
He still wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
I'm desperate for more John Stewart. He is MY Green Lantern and I think a lot of people my age feel the same. They really should have included him instead of cyborg in the SnyderVerse I think
Well to be fair, in an expanded Batman beyond comic, John and Hawkgirl got together anyway after Vixen was killed by Shadow Theif, so it seems everything course corrected on its own
The worst part is that the Christmas special was RIGHT BEFORE her betrayal.
I wish Batman and Wonder Woman were in the episode.
@@monsemaniaa The ancient greek Wonder Woman probably doesn't celebrate a Christian holiday, and Batman, well, you can guess why he doesn't want to...
@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon Yes I can imagine why. I just love seeing the league interacting with one another.
oof.
Bro. i did not know that.
Bruce Timm and crew took such a nothing character and made her one of the best! Wish DC comics would have done the same.
One thing I wish they touched on was acknowledging the fact the Thanagarians LIED (by ommission) to Hawkgirl. She genuinely thought she was protecting earth in a backwards kind of way and her feelings began to rapidly change when she realized she was not only working under false pretense, but her fiance also didn't even try to confess it until it was too late.
She realized her own people didn't trust her from the outset, let alone the man she was engaged to, and still, despite the favt she could have plead ignorance and explained how they lied she still took the punishment and maintained at least some sense honor for her people and self by not shifting blame.
None of them deserved her. She was fantastic
From the League's perspective, it's just as believable that she just had a last minute change of heart, rather than that she was acting out of ignorance of the Thanagarians' true intentions this whole time. They can't take her at her word anymore.
I always had a huge crush on her. Such a well done show
Man literally just spoke for everyone
Are you now a furry?
@@burymeinjhenny918 thankfully no lol. I do have a thing for red heads though
She is very hot. Also dutiful women are rare in media these days
@@Patrick-rw9el I feel ya, but for me it's women who can (and would) beat the shit out of me.
This series being my introduction to the character and then seeing the comics versions was kind of weird; handily the best version of the character
You forgot to mention just how big of a stealth bomber the writers made Hawkgirl. Some of the biggest double entendres in the show came from her.
Fastest man alive😂
“Yeah you’d probably be wasting your time anyway. I hear she’s… you know…. Brazilian 😉 “
I still don't get that one@zediahcdemos9220
"Don't knock til you've tried it, princess"
Maria's performance also makes the character so brilliantly portrayed, so emotional, and hence, so tragic.
Hawk Girl was straight up the most fascinating and cool character in the whole show! AND she was a total badass warrior!
cant stay loyal for her life
thank you for dedicating a whole video to Hawkgirl, she was my absolute favorite due to how the writers were able to make Shayera more relatable and connected to things we go through as people
Hawkgirl is my favorite character in the entirety of DC, all because of the Justice League cartoons. It was my first introduction to comic heroes, and I felt an instant love for the bad cop gal with wings. I can still quote many of her lines, and rewatch "Wake the Dead" a lot. It probably the episode I go back to the most as her relationship with the reanimated Grundy is really beautiful. Her choice to kill him is so sad, but understandable when thinking of his first death. She's an amazing character is this series, and it's the portrayal I will hold up forever.
I do dig that both Hawkman and GL refuse to be destiny's puppets and Hawkgirl not getting with either of them
What? Don't you know about warhawk? Her and Stewart eventually get back together later down the line.
@@joeljohnson1000 I mean, we don’t really know that. After all, timelines are a thing DC plays with all the time. That’s not THE future, that’s A future. And we know that because Terry dies in that story, yet we later see him in another episode much later down the line. Different timelines
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 But Warhawk was in the Batman Beyond show and the JLU episode Epilogue, so I’m fairly certain he’s canon
@@lordapex5288 They’re all canon
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 Terry dies post Chronos, Warhawk was around long before Chronos ever got to the future, and I feel like we see him in the Epilogue flash forward
Supes, Wally, & Jon voting for her made sense but was shocked that WW voted against her. She comes from warrior people, she should’ve understood the responsibility of a soldier. This made the vote against HG that much impactful, she was that hurt & angry
WW also values honor, and the act of betrayal of comrades by being a spy is an incredible sin for her.
@@Zarastro54especially since Hawkgirl is a fellow woman
Diana values loyalty more than much else. A traitor is the worst thing you could be in a society like the Amazons'. It makes perfect sense that she voted against her. Personally I figure the for votes should have been Jon, Batman, and Wally. Batman is the type to have allies whose relationship with him has complicated dynamics when it comes to trust and his dealings have always been a little bit shady. Superman holds a grudge, it's kind of his thing, he never forgave Hamilton for betraying Kara, he goes into a blinding rage if you mention Darkseid, I'm surprised he voted for her.
@@Zarastro54 True but she too comes from warrior people & had they asked her to be a spy she would’ve done the same. She still would’ve voted the way she did, but always thought she’d understand & relate a bit instead holding hate in JL:U
@@bet0v966 valid points, I don't 100% agree, but it makes perfect sense
Warhawk, Rex Stewart, is a symbol of hope and love... mind = blown.
Her departure at the end of the show displayed the same sunset sky as her part in the show's intro. Beautiful
I've watched this series on repeat as a kid, but only just now had I realized how much depth the characters have.
She was the late great Dwayne McDuffie's fav character to write.
Her arc is great and relatable anyone that has loved understands her
I read my brother's comics when I was a kid, and was excited to see the cartoon every Saturday morning. They really did my boy Hawkman dirty in all three interpretations of him with the past Egyptian version with her thirsty ass betraying him as he was more concerned with work, the Archeologist version with making him a creepy stalker, and the Thanagarian version making him the supervillain.
couldnt agree more
Well, I can see why a lot of people think Hawgirl f*cked Hro over by cheating on him with John, but there's still a LOT of things that we as viewers either don't know or don't take into consideration.
1) There’s a possibility that Shey’ara thought Hro was dead and could’ve been reporting that data she collected to someone else.
2) Shey’ara was supposed to have reported to Hro, but he got captured and she was reporting to someone else in his stead.
3) Hro KNEW that Shey’ara had made a life for herself on Earth and still decided to use the “he’s an alien, he wouldn’t understand Earth’s customs” to his advantage and kissed her in front of John.
4) Both his knowledge and insecurity came to a head when he called what Shey’ara and John had a: “meaningless flirtation”.
5) Hro took Shey’ara away from her friends so she wouldn’t have a chance to explain herself and immediately started to love bomb her by surrounding herself with things that reminded her of Thangar and of the time they spent together while on leave.
6) Despite Shey’ara’s hesitant body language and very flat tone of voice he still tried to make a move.
7) When Hro's assistant advised that Shey'ara be psychologically assessed Hro told him to mind his business simply because "Shey'ara's love for me is more powerful than the memories she's made here on Earth despite the fact that we haven't seen each other in 5 YEARS"
Hro is egotistical, insecure and manipulative.
He’s let his feelings for Shey’ara get in the way of his priorities for the entire episode.
Hro knew that his time with Shey’ara was over and he was trying his damndest to rekindle whatever feelings he thought she had left for him.
I believe that Hro was “street trash” that was taken in and forged into the perfect warrior before he was chosen to be a commander, OR he was a spoiled rich boy who came from a military family and was used to getting what he wants.
And seeing as the handling of a love rival during a courting ritual on Thanagar is violent in nature I wouldn’t be surprised if Hro off’ed a plentiful supply of other Thanagarian officers he deemed as love rivals just so he could keep Shay’ara to himself.
That point can be proved by just seeing how he handled his fight with John.
I also believe that Hro and Shey'ara only got together as a business arrangement not commitment made out of love, simply due to how distant she acted when arrived and how she was more than willing to allow herself to fall in love with someone else despite being engaged.
I mean, think about it, if the Thanagarians have to invade a planet in order to insure the safety of the little remaining numbers they have left. I wouldn't be surprised if the commanding officers or anyone who ranks high in the Thanagarian hierarchy weren't married off as soon as possible to guarantee both royal and military numbers.
@@thewizardio2953 I disagree.
So fun thing on the jl comic for the show. If I remember correctly, either shadow Master or the shadow thing from the Carter episode. Ends up killing vixen and John kill him which is how he loses his green lantern ring and ends up with Hawkgirl in the end
WTF. Already knew your videos were amazing but now you got me tearing up over freaking HAWKGIRL.
I used to love Hawkgirl so much, even as a kid. I never understood why i loved her & green lantern’s storyline. But now that I’m older it makes so much sense. I find myself in GL’s position currently. You know the feeling that you and someone are supposed to be together, it’s mutual and you know you’ll end up together. But the timing and circumstances aren’t aligned and never seem to, but will eventually. You find yourself with someone else and seeing where that goes, and being loyal to the person because they deserve that too. Life is crazy
If it helps, there was a comic set in this series where Vixen died and they ended up together anyway
@@JDog2656terrible comic. Why did Vixen have to die in order for the two of them to get back together? They literally kiss while standing on Vixen’s grave
i'd like to mention that in Vigilante is played by Nathan Fillion and Vixen is played by Gina Torres. (costars from Firefly) Both go by Vig or Vix. and i just think that's kind of neat. Also, Fillion is playing a cowboy who lives in space. again.
I need a DCAU J'onn J'onzz video in this style, I SWEAR
one of the best parts of dcau was her and her arc and her journey
these videos are so beautiful, man the way u narrate everything...
Cool pfp
Love that the auto-subtitles call her "hot girl" instead of Hawkgirl
I love this channel man! Every video is like a HIMYM episode. the music, the vibe, the storytelling, everything. You deserve more people watching your content dude!
Why would you insult his great content by comparing it to that?
Stop making me cry! Damnitt
Your use of "Where We Wanna Go" for the credits on this video hit so HARD. Got a little teary eyed. Great video essay. I always felt so bad for Hawkgirl, because of her entangled feelings about everything. Destiny, duty, love, and being to let go - which eventually led to even more tragedy. OOOOoof.
Fantastic,i love seeing people talk about DCAU .IMO Sahira was the best female character in this animated universe,her journey is just really well written.
10:42. Of course he believes in second chances after that season finale of his series. 👀
When I first saw Starcrossed, I knew how Superman would vote based on his experience being brainwashed by Granny Goodness by order of Darkseid. And I love that call back to Legacy. The detail in the call backs to other DCAU events was just brilliant.
And after Legacy, only Lois believed in him. Made the STAS beautifully bittersweet and became something he would become obsessed to up to the end of Divided We Fall.
Great dissection! It's always an A+ when you jerk a tear from my eye.
I disagree with the characterization of hawkgirl's choice during the season 2 finale being one of 'feelings vs duty'.
yes, she had a duty to her people. and yes she had feelings for john.
but she also had a duty to the league, and the people of earth. these were close friends and allies that she'd fought along side with for years by this point. people that had put their trust in her and had saved her life on several occasions.
likewise, hawkgirl also had feelings for her fiancé. I mean, he was her fiancé, that's not exactly something you do on a dare.
in other words, hawkgirl's dilema during the Thanagarian invasion was incredibly symmetrical. in a way, this made her the closest thing to a neutral party on the subject, ironically enough.
no matter what she chose to do, she'd lose a lover and a people. no matter her choice, she'd be the worst sort of betrayer imaginable to one side or the other.
ultimately, she sided with earth. while this was a fairly complex decision, _much_ of it could be attributed to the fact that the thanagarian's were the aggressors in the conflict. that is to say, hawkgirl likely made her decision along moral lines. while her feelings likely played a role as well, it seems to me that they were secondary, or even tertiary considerations.
she betrayed them to protect them. if her peoples enemy was showing up then her people were the best to defend agaisnt it. when she learned of the plan she opposed it.
I hate hawkman. Anyway, I always loved hawkgirl, she was the black sheep, not quite fitting in. I relate to her. I also lowkey love the friendship between Batman and Hawkgirl, they never really liked each other, but when justice league unlimited came around, Batman and Hawkgirl had developed a silent respect. I think Batman learned to respect her when she left, and also probably because Alfred had a conversation with him lol. It showed when Hawkman was introduced, Batman really pulled up with his pile of documents and receipts and went "bish get out of there, he wack af". It was a pleasant surprise to see Batman cares in his wierd, awkward, stunted, emotionally repressed, Batman way.
Hawkgirl was so compelling to me as a kid, even though I didn't really know why. She's found a family with people who she wouldn't normally fit in. She's always making the hard decisions and stuck in the worst spots. She trys to make the best out of it, even when she's shunned. Hawkgirl is strong, but she still struggles. I like that.
What I don't like is Hawkman. I loathe Hawkman. With every fiber of my being. If he was real, I would tear his stalker ass apart. Slowly, I would kill him slowly. I have very strong feelings towards Hawkman.
100%. Hawkgirl *struggles* and still comes through a hero.
This incarnation of Hawkman, or just in general?
@@Weirdman20 mostly this one, but I don't really vibe with the lore tbh
Her character was so compelling, I had the biggest crush on her when I was watching this series
Me and my bro talking about how fine hawkgirl is and then you releasing this.
If you read the Justice League Beyond comic book and how Vixen is killed by Shadow Thief and that’s the catalyst for John and Hawgirl reconnecting is really interesting to read
we always needs to talk more about shayera hol!!! let’s do shayera and mari!! the way they are friends dispute loving the same man like the complexities of it is so good !!!
Wonder how many emmys this show has won
Once Hawkgirl rejoined the JL, she seemed alright being friends with Vixen and John right up until she found out about her son. The way she asked Batman to tell her about Rex, she seemed uneasy and kind of sad.
This was a great video, I hope to see more
She was my favorite charater on that series.
Hawk Girl: Tell me about my son
Batman: No.
What happened to her and John Stewart in the Batman Beyond universe?
I find a lot of similarities between Hawkgirl and Batman's contingency plan story. From exploiting the weakness of the league and spying on them. Eventually, in the end, they have a vote on whether she could stay or not, and she decides to resign herself. I find the story much better explored as compared to Batman, In a lot of variations Batman just gets invited back with a welcoming hand afterward due to his popularity. Hawkgirl actually faces the consequences direly instead, where it is clear the relationship has been damaged.
Hawk girl was definitely my gay awakening but also a role model for me!
I love Hawkgirl as a character in the series. I think I love her a bit more than Wonderwoman. I just wish she was a little more powerful, close to WW and less vulnerable and beaten up in the series. Like adding metal claws and wing armor.
I discovered your channel a couple days ago. Gotta say, I love your reviews of the Justice League show so far. It may be old, but it was a fantastic series. Also, love your intros and outros. Honestly my favorite out of any other youtuber.
Great work.
Your videos make me cry because this is the DCAU I love so much
shayera’s legacy in the league is so important they had to put her chair there in the og seven lounge because SHES FAMILY!!!
Just to let you know they came out with a Batman Beyond comic tie in that shows Green Lantern and Hawkgirl’s future.
Hell yeah, boosting the remake by commenting
I added ypur intro song to my spotify bc it legit makes me think about cinema just hearing it now. Pavlovs song.
+
Far better than the CW Hawkgirl who just reminded people she used to be a barista every 2 seconds.
We gonna get a young justice phantoms soon? Can't wait for your breakdowns from that season
Alright everyone if you could give Hawkgirl another superpower what would it be? I would give her wind and lightning powers where she could control the wind and used air based attacks and even shoot wind annd lightning out of her hands.
It always bugged me that we never got the same romance with hawkgirl and John Stewart in the comics. hawkgirl has better chemistry with John Stewart then she does with hawkman. Instead DC keeps her paired up with hawkman who's feelings toward feels like a creepy cross between a romance and obsession. We can have Harely and Poison ivy be a thing but we can't have hawkgirl and green lantern be a thing.
It's because Comic John was already married to Katma Tui. Just because John and Hawkgirl had a romance in this show, doesn't mean it has to be applied in the comics. Even though she was killed by Star Sapphire. Katma was brought back as a Black Lantern, but was killed once again, after her death; John still misses her dearly. He's dated other characters, Fatality, Rose, Vixen, and Merayn Dethalis.
Why would that bug you?
If anything, the fact that they posted her with Green Lantern should but instead since that’s not comic accurate,
Ok, watch it again why not! I remember you really got me on my emotions the first time dude.
still not making a WW vid? hope you still got some stuff on the DCAU
What these corporations who are copyright claiming fail to realize is that by you making these videos entices us to rewatch their shows, therefore getting us interested in them again. It’s free advertisement for them.
ok so reincarnation is a thing for Thanagarians. But John's a human, which has a lot of unrealized existential implications for the rest of everything.
Love your intro music and outro music
In “Epilogue”, when Amanda Waller presents the device that would kill Ace before she hits critical mass, Shayera immediately reaches for it. Because Hawkgirl is able to put her feelings aside if she has to kill someone, as she demonstrated with Solomon Grundy. However, Batman takes the device, even though he chooses to comfort Ace so her death doesn’t result in a psychic meltdown that kill everybody in range. As Batman is compassionate, he knows Ace is a victim, not a villain, and he is not letting anybody kill a child, even if that child was dying and couldn’t be saved.
Hawkgirl was Omniman, way before it was cool.
She's more like Omni-man who had sided with Earth earlier
Life isn't that clean. That's about the truest statement ever.
The first time I saw that episode with the guy telling her about reincarnation and all that, I thought he was just deluded and that that was the angle they were going for. His character, his delivery, it all felt like that Zeus guy from Batman. It was only later I'd find out that that was the legitimate backstory of Hawkman and Hawkgirl, that they were destined to find each other and die over and over through cycles of reincarnation including on the alien world that first sent Nth metal to ancient Egypt. It's a good story that makes the Hawks interesting, but it's one of the big missteps of the Justice League cartoon.
I think the fact that she realized what she did was wrong, and to have ultimately chose Earth is a good reason for her her to be allowed back into the Justice League alone. The strength that would have required is huge, and I am willing to bet that in a similar situation, very few of the other members would be able to make that choice.
I think something no one talks about near enough is how hawkman shows up every time they reincarnate to gaslight her into being with him, even when shes clearly in love with someone thats better for her. Hes extremely manipulative
And yet everyone always calls her a whore because she left a toxic man
This just agains further explains why the TV show Justice League is the literal best ensemble.
That Egyptian reincarnation episode was probably one of the most unnecessary episodes of JLU, besides the weird cuckhold plot, introducing Warhawk makes the theme redundant.
I wish people would look terms up before they spammed them.
@@MALICEM12cuckold is proper in this connotation.
It wasn't even Mcdufffie writing the episode, or dini.
It was all Timm and his Fetish.
10:40 also, I should’ve known she wasn’t dismissed from the JL. Deal is that Supes knows what it’s like to be framed on a global scale. If you’ve seen the 2-parter episode of Superman TAS where Clark was brainwashed by Darkseid and was used as a weapon against earth so that they can turn against him, you should know why Superman made the decision. Took some huge balls of real steel to make that decision and proud of the league to give Shaerya that choice to stay
I enjoy your videos. I’m sitting on a bench in Japan watching this, and thanks to you, I had an epiphany. Completely unrelated to the video, but your work triggered it nonetheless. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks. ✨💎✨
"1+1 equals Warhawk, so get on with it." XD
1 series - around month non-stop chill discussion about life, death and meaning. Holy smokes bruh
She is my favourit charact with martian manhuntr from ther :( such hardships. And yes she i emotionally complex and badass.
"Vixen and Nathan Fillion" killed me
Funny story: I missed JL when it first aired on TV. I was a tad too young, but I watched JLU as it aired. I loved Hawkgirl. She was probably my favorite character, but I didn't understand why everyone else in the show hated her/had so much friction with her. Then I went back and watched JL and its finale Starcrossed and now I hate her too (well, I love to hate her).
How miserable was her life in the mainstream universe? Ask me that.
Which one?
New 52 or post crisis ?
I loved how the Thanagarians believed in a god that demanded that lives should always be sacrificed for the "Greater Good" and they're grand strategy revolved around that axiom. But when HG faces that ugly past she learned that you always have to find a better way. And when Carter Hall talks to her about their past lives she can't just let any kind of past define who she is.
This show is just keeps growing the more I think about it.
Considering the fact that everyone in the Vegan Star System (The Star System that both she and Starfire AND the Gordanians are from) believe in X'Hal (supposedly) and do all things through her. Yeah, it is pretty cool.
How can Hawk Girl not believe in a soul when they reincarnate.
Ricky Ricardo once said, “Lucy! You got some splaining to do.”
Dude thanks for the quotes
you are a master tearjerker. 🥲
I love this channel!!!!!
to be fair the confirmation of john as war hawks dad is in a messed up timeline. So it is likley warhawks father in the true cannon is hawkman. I mean he has a much lighter skin tone in batman beyond.
It’s possible for a dark skinned man to father a lighter skinned child.
EDIT - Not to mention Hawkgirl has the appearance of a ginger haired and green eyed white woman so why wouldn’t Rex be lighter skinned?
I will always prefer the original Justice League than JL Unlimited. Sure, it had great episodes and in fact it turned out way better than I expected, given the insane amount of characters displayed. But there is one thing I really didn't, don't and won't like in JLU ever: its upbeat ending music that didn't fit with anything. And the moment I really hated it was when in 7:30 that loud music completely destroyed the moment.
What a weird complaint. It's bombastic and heroic, which fits the series. And if you don't like it just skip the intro and outro.
Amazo surrounded by Aquaman and Hawkgirl be like: we were on bad terms, but now we're cool
Wasn’t Alfred a soldier? Or a spy? One of the two
For the streets
Alfred saying goated. ✊
we should have gotten more shayera and diana they are besties!!!! and the only woman in the league
In the show, Hawkgirl tends not to flap her wings as she flies, and I think they should always be flapping during flight.
Honestly I always felt like Hawk Girl was a black sheep. I never really liked her much, she seems to flip flop to much as a person that she never seemed to be stable and consistent.
4:07 if I had a nickel for every Destiny actor that voiced someone in JLU, I’d have at least 2 nickels. One for Vigilante (Nathan Fillion/ Cayde-6) and one for Dr. Fate (Oded Fehr/ Osiris), potentially even more.
She actually does get together with green lantern in the end
Why did I click on this? Now my feelings are feeling things.